Special:Badtitle/NS90:Talk:Pokémon Black and White/YMMV/The Great Big Ghetsis Harmonia Gropius Effort Post

Since Ghetsis' qualifications for the Complete Monster trope is something that creates controversy everywhere, even here very recently, I've chosen to put this effort post here in order to justify why he's a keeper on this wiki.

'''Who is Ghetsis Harmonia? What has he done?''' - Ghetsis is the leader of Team Plasma in the Generation V games of Pokemon. Despite this, he starts off as simply the leader of the Seven Sages of Team Plasma, while his (supposedly adopted) son N is in the position of King. Team Plasma's stated mission is to liberate Pokemon from human captivity and oppression, and with the legendary Pokemon Reshiram/Zekrom, N and his followers hope to create separate worlds for humans and Pokemon, and to abolish Pokemon training in general, since it represents humans using the abilities and natures of Pokemon to their own ends. However, Ghetsis made N king merely to use him as a puppet leader for Team Plasma's quest, and for him (N) to become the hero of legend who can bond with Reshiram or Zekrom. What's more, the end goal of liberating Pokemon from people and segregating the two races is actually a convenient lie - Ghetsis' true end goal is that once N has commanded every human in the Unova region to release their Pokemon (the humans would do this out of reverence of the hero, particularly if his legendary Pokemon proved stronger than the opposing hero's, and he could thus threaten the region with it unless they submitted to his commands), Ghetsis and his select followers (the members of Team Plasma who were on board with his true plans the whole time) would be left as the only people to own and use Pokemon. Using these Pokemon, Ghetsis and his Team Plasma would dominate the Unova region and make a new government for a new world order in which it's against the law to have Pokemon unless you work for or with Ghetsis. He also speaks of becoming supreme ruler of the entire world, meaning that he hopes to repeat this process with all other regions in the rest of the world, threatening them with an army Pokemon headed by Reshiram or Zekrom. This makes sense seeing as "the more Pokemon, the more power" is the way it works in this world, and if Ghetsis kept adding regions' worth of Pokemon to his collection, he could Take Over the World. At the finale of the first game, we find out that Ghetsis had raised N on the notion that all Pokemon suffer from abuse by selfish humans and that they must be liberated, and he "proved" this to his son by deliberately letting him have only Pokemon that had been abused and mistreated by bad humans as playmates. Since N can communicate with Pokemon simply by feeling what's in their heart, thus hearing their inner voices, he naturally assumed that this was the norm for Pokemon, which is precisely what Ghetsis intended him to think so that he'd be given a false reality that he'd sincerely believe he'd have to change. We also see that N's childhood was kept confined to one room inside Team Plasma's castle - a room with nothing but a bunch of toys, and all he had for companions were abused Pokemon and the occasional humans like Plasma servants, Anthea and Concordia, and Ghetsis himself. Disturbingly, examining the toys in N's rooms show that they've been used even recently. Ghetsis purposely shut his son off from contact with the outside world and stunted his emotional growth so that he could keep a childlike innocence and purity to him. The reason for this? Ghetsis knew he needed someone innocent and pure to be the hero, and since someone like him could never fit that bill, he groomed N specifically to meet the requirements of The Messiah. He had his child raised in an isolated environment solely so that he could become a perfect pawn in HIS plans to get what HE wanted in life. After N has been defeated, Ghetsis is enraged that his son could fall before his opponent, so he calls him "good for nothing" "stupid" and "a warped, defective boy who can only understand Pokemon". He then states that because the Player Character knows the truth about N and Team Plasma, and in order to ensure that none of the people of Unova find out about N's defeat (which would invalidate his credibility as the hero), the PC must be eliminated. With him/her silenced, Ghetsis could lie and tell the masses that N was the victor. Ghetsis proceeds to battle the PC with his team of Pokemon that seem specially trained for torturing and killing, and he claims he wants to see his opponent in the moment where they loose all hope. After Ghetsis loses, he snaps and raves about how he, his Team Plasma, and his envisioned world order is "perfect", so he's therefore entitled to the power he craves. Before getting arrested, Ghetsis verbally abuses his son some more and shows his hypocrisy in doing show by calling him "a freak without a human heart" because he connects more with Pokemon than with humans. The hypocritical part being that not only is Ghetsis the true freak without a human heart, as Cheren and Alder note, but he's insulting N for being exactly what he quite deliberately raised him as!

And that was all in the first games. In the sequels, which take place three years later, Ghetsis has formed a new Team Plasma and has changed his approach: since his original plan that was years in the making and could have carved him a quicker path to world domination was thwarted, his new plan focuses on simply conquering the Unova region, his long term goal of conquering the entire world is on the back burner. And since everyone in the region now knows what he is and what he and Team Plasma was really up to, he's abandoned all subtlety and is instead opting for a more direct approach. He's captured the legendary Pokemon Kyurem and not only does he have it physically and mentally tortured with a cane that contains Mind Control properties, but he has it placed in a machine that causes it excruciating pain as it forces it's power out, which is then unleashed upon the region through a canon on the Plasma Frigate. He hopes to put a lethal chill over the entire continent so that when the suffering becomes too great, the masses will relinquish all power and control to him, making this one big extortion scheme. We see Team Plasma freeze over Opelucid City when they're out to take the DNA Splicers from Drayden, and we find out in the post-game that the half of the region you couldn't visit beforehand had been frozen too. At the climax of Team Plasma's plot, Ghetsis takes Kyurem to the Giant Chasm so that it can reach it's maximum power, which he'd then use to freeze Unova. The Player Character comes to stop him, and Ghetsis shows resentment towards him/her due to being reminded of the previous PC who stopped him three years ago. Out of spite, he orders Kyurem to use a Glaciate attack directly on the PC - not on a Pokemon and without any sort of proper battle preceding this. He claims the attack will leave him/her frozen solid while he goes on to dominate Unova. Fortunately, N arrives with Reshiram/Zekrom to save the PC just in time, but Ghetsis takes advantage of this by using the DNA Splicers on Kyurem and N's legendary, fusing them together. After defeating and freeing Kyurem, Ghetsis battles the PC, again stating his desire to see him/her lose all hope and be left broken. In a karmic turn of events, it's Ghetsis who loses all hope and is left broken after being defeated. N tries to convince the man he still calls father that Pokemon are more than just tools, and that even he could befriend them if he tried. Ghetsis' response is to roar at him to "SHUT UP!" SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!" and reprehend him for daring to talk like a human being even when he "should only understand Pokemon." At which point, Ghetsis' mind snaps and he's taken away by the Shadow Triad, who later say that he's lost heart in the prospect of keeping going with his plans, being barely able to function anymore.

Are his actions heinous by the standards of the story? - In terms of the franchise as a whole, there have been villains whose actions are notably far more heinous than his. Cyrus wanted to commit mass omnicide on the universe (Keep in mind, though, that this was means to the end of recreating said universe and reviving everyone and everything in it, simply devoid of spirit. That's why he tells the PC in "Platinum" that "One day, you will awaken in a world of my creation - a world without spirit." And also that we've qualified other villains who exist within the same universe as Cyrus, particularly Hunter J and that one manga incarnation of Charon, both of whom featured in story arcs that included Cyrus with his goals and actions), Lysandre wanted to commit genocide on as many people and Pokemon as possible in order to preserve resources and keep the world beautiful, Matt and/or Courtney wanted to commit genocide on people, the leaders of Cipher performed torturous experiments on Pokemon in order to create Shadow Pokemon and assaulted many trainers, and I'm not even getting into Darkrai and Purple Eyes. But with that said, Ghetsis was, in both games he was in, operating on a different playing field, committing his atrocities on a different scale, and was in possession of different resources. Therefore the question we seriously must consider is this: was he as heinous as he could possibly be with what he had at his disposal? Well, here's what his actions boil down to (And PLEASE DO NOTE, that these are his actions that have on-screen evidence):


 * Child abuse by way of isolation, emotional manipulation, growth stunting, neglect, psychological warping, and verbal abuse that is both emotional and mental in nature. (He also shoves N aside after insulting him the first time in BW).
 * Mass exploitation (Everything he said and did was all about exploiting the way people and Pokemon act, think, and feel, and the way in which things work in the Pokeverse.)
 * Deceit and fraud under the guise of a just cause. (Your Pokemon are suffering, so you must set them free...so that I can have them and make them suffer!)
 * Intended tyranny and oppression were he to get his way  - arguably enslavement since people would feel trapped into living by his rules in the new world order.
 * Terrorism. (Team Plasma's attack on the League that was initiated by him and his plan).
 * Hacking/Cyber Terrorism (His minions occupied a lab in N's castle where they hacked into the Unova storage system and would release all trainer's Pokemon once N issued his command.)
 * One charge of attempted murder ("You must be eliminated.")
 * Attempts at emotional and mental torture ("I can't wait to see your face in the moment you've lost all hope!").
 * Physical and mental torture of a Pokemon (Kyurem, both by his cane and in the machine. N explicitly states that he could feel Kyurem was suffering, and remorseful Plasma grunts later mention how horrific the torment must have been for Kyurem) in order to make it comply with terrorism of an entire region (freezing cities counts as terrorist acts, especially since Ghetsis mentions "the terrified people" when ranting about his plan, meaning that fear was an intended reaction.)
 * Widespread torture (the chill that the freezeover would create if it was made by Kyruem's "true power at it's absolute limit")
 * Attempted extortion of power and control (the end result of his plan).
 * A second charge of attempted murder (the Glaciate attack - either it would freeze the PC alive, or leave them frozen in place in the chasm 'til they die of freezing and hypothermia: either way, it's attempted murder, and on a child no less).
 * Not following the trainers' code of conduct for battle in order to make that attempt on a life (Please note that all of the other Pokemon villains, even the one with more heinous actions and darker goals, have at least played by the rules when it comes to battle - to Ghetsis, no line that he should not cross exists.)
 * Animal cruelty (everything he does to Kyurem - even fusing it with Reshiram is done with neither Pokemon's consent - and his infamous Hydregion's Frusteration attack is indicative of bad treatment in and of itself)
 * And being an unrepentant dick and a really, really sore loser. - Obligatory Murder Arson and Jaywalking.

There have been arguments about how Ghetsis' actions aren't too bad, like all the freezing would likely be Harmless Freezing, or how he didn't mean to suggest murder in either instance, and how he wasn't aiming to destroy anything like Cyrus or Lsyandre, and only got around to damaging one city, or how even his child abuse was fairly mild and within E rated standards. And I can see all of those points. However, I personally think Ghetsis is, within his scale and with his resources, about as heinous as the manga incarnation of Charon, who also sought world domination and was motivated by petty greed and self-interest, and would stoop to any low in order to get there so long as the means were at his disposal and he felt he could get away with it. Heck, he shares qualities with Hunter J, Grings Kodai, and Dr. Yung from the anime. His actions might not be as widespread and large scale in their heinousness as villains in other Pokemon games, but they're still as heinous as he can manage, motivated by something selfish and seemingly not worth extreme lengths taken in the name of it, and committed by a man who is characterized as being completely evil with zero positive, redeeming or humanizing qualities at all.

For my biggest arguments as to why Ghetsis' actions are to be considered heinous by Pokemon standards? First let's look at his plan. His entire scheme and end goal struck at the heart of the way in which the Pokemon world itself works, and was extra exploitative of the very nature of the titular monsters. Cyrus was apathetic about Pokemon at most and had a A God Am I goal that could come out of any JRPG. Lysandre actually valued and appreciated Pokemon and was remorseful that many of them would have to perish as a result of his plan. Ghetsis sees Pokemon as nothing but usable and disposable tools, and is willing to shake the foundations of the Pokemon world and the League system of Pokemon training in order to become the sole master of all Pokemon so that he may use and abuse their special abilities as he pleases, particularly against other human beings. Second let's look at what the results would be. Cyrus wanted to destroy the universe and every living thing in it so that he could recreate it and every living thing in it stripped of spirit - a horrific goal, but people and Pokemon would retain their lives and wouldn't even feel any pain over what they were missing, since the emotion would be drained from them. Lysandre wanted to commit mass homicide, killing dozens of humans and Pokemon, And That's Terrible. Ghetsis wanted to Take Over the World in order to instill a totalitarian leadership in which he, as the ruler who is the only one allowed to decide who will have and use Pokemon (which would be just him and his cronies), has unlimited influence, privilege, and control over everything that lives and is free to oppress and suppress everyone by using threat of force via his superpowered mons. As dictator of not just Unova, but the entire world, Ghetsis would turn the world into one where every day was one of suffering under his reign - a world where your oppressors have all the power to harm you and keep you in line (as the only ones able to use Pokemon) and you lack the power to fight back, and are thus made to feel enslaved in this Dystopian world order. It's a Fate Worse Than Death, arguably as horrific as Cyrus' vision for the world, if not moreso seeing as here you'd keep your emotions and would thus feel every last bit of pain. One could also argue that this is just as heinous as Lysandre's mass murder attempts, because the suffering he'd cause others would go on and on without stop. A serial torturer can be as bad or worse than a Serial Killer. In terms of killing versus prolonged torture, I think Peter Pan from Once Upon A Time (himself a Complete Monster) put it best when he said "Death is final. Their suffering will be eternal." And thirdly, let's look at the infamous "Ghetsis tries to freeze the PC alive" moment. As I said before, this is not following the typical code of conduct for Pokemon trainers in battle, since Ghetsis gave Kyurem the command outside of a battle, before any battle had or could take place. This demonstrates what a dangerous man he is, since to him, there are no lines to not cross. If even the villains with more heinous actions and horrific goals didn't do such a thing, imagine what Ghetsis would be like if he had their resources and objectives? This is also the first time a human being in this franchise has chosen to order his super powered monster to directly attack another human being, thus breaking the unwritten Why Don't You Just Shoot Him? rule of the franchise. There's argument of what the freezing would do to the PC, but it'd amount to either three things: death, torture, or a Fate Worse Than Death. Does any of that sound tame and not heinous? The only obvious end result would be that the PC is incapacitated and out of the way, but to resort to THIS in order to get that result is just cruel and depraved no matter how you slice it. And the kicker? He attempted to do this to a child. You never saw Cyrus or Giovanni attempt or even imply actually harming the Kid Hero of their games. Even Lysandre never targeted one kid specifically. But Ghetsis? He most definitely Would Hurt A Child. What's also horrifying to note is that Glaciate is a damaging attack, NOT one meant for giving the Freeze status effect to it's opponent, meaning that Harmless Freezing isn't likely here. In fact, it can't; it lowers the targets' Speed, suggesting that intention of not wanting the target to move or run away on Ghetsis' part. If used on a human, this technique could freeze that human alive or to death. So yes, Ghetsis intended on murdering the protagonist. And in a slow, painful, gruesome way too, (by freezing, starvation, hypothermia, etc. Maybe even dismemberment if the ice shattered - we actually see this happen to Hydregion when Kyurem uses Glaciate on it in Mystery Dungeon: Gate To Infinity!) because that's the sort of thing a sadist like Ghetsis enjoys dealing out. So in my view, the combination of all those things make Ghetsis heinous enough to be a worthy Complete Monster contender.

Does he have any redeeming qualities? - I just mentioned that he had none whatsoever. The only time he appeared to have positive qualities was when he was posing as a well meaning Knight Templar whose speeches on the nature of Pokemon and human relationships and why Pokemon are better off released and freed from human captivity even inspired Gym Leader Burgh. But this facade was a total sham and he never truly believed a word of what he was preaching, since he abuses Pokemon, uses them as tools, and planned to keep them in captivity so that he may have the privilege of using Pokemon as means of oppressing others and keeping them in line through threat of force. (I'm not kidding - his exact words in regards to his and his followers use of Pokemon in his new world order was "We and only we will use Pokemon, and we shall rule the powerless populace!" Notice the word "powerless", used to describe people who would now not be able to defend themselves from Ghetsis' oppression because they can no longer use super powered monsters whereas their oppressors are the only ones who can!) Ghetsis is basically an Evil Sorcerer who was an aspiring dictator hiding beneath the ruse of priesthood. His true character is not only completely self-serving, callous, devious, exploitative, depraved, and all around pure evil with a Lack of Empathy for anyone that isn't himself, but he's utterly and shamelessly sadistic, admitting to loving manipulating the hearts and minds of others, enjoying breaking people's spirits so that they're left without hope, and being totally unapologetic for it - no remorse or regrets for his crimes, the nature of said crimes, or his atrocious behavior at all. He views everyone in Team Plasma the same as he does everyone else - they're all pawns and stepping stones in his rise to power. It's particularly repulsive with N since, adopted or not, that's the child he was responsible for raising his whole life. By definition, he is his son. And yet he means so little to him, his worth being measured only by what use he could have to him, his plans, and his goals. (Think Frollo with Quasimodo). In the sequels, Ghetsis even has the nerve to blame N for his own current actions in a "look at what you've made me do!" sort of way, suggesting that Unova would not have had to be damaged had N only remained his good little ignorant and likely disposable pawn like he was "supposed to", and that the act of refusing to be used as a pawn in his selfish games is "selfish" itself. Basically Ghetsis cares for no one, and no one seems to care much for him either. And as for the matter of redemption, he's actually offered a shot a redemption by N. Despite this man having abused and mistreated him his entire life, despite everything he's done, N still calls Ghetsis father and tries to give him a second chance. And Ghetsis isn't having any of that, as evidenced by his Redemption Rejection. He's shown to simply be incapable of any decency.

Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors? - None at all. Unlike most Pokemon villains, Ghetsis has zero excuse for anything he ever does. He simply feels entitled to world domination, thus unlimited control, privilege, and influence over all that lives. Aside from being The Sociopath, Ghetsis 100% fits the bill for having Narcissistic Personality Disorder.


 * A grandiose sense of self importance? Check. ("I AM PERFECT!")
 * Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success and power? Check. ("This cannot be! The world should be mine!")
 * Believes he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by (and associate with) other "special", unique, high status people or institutions? Check. (The "perfect" bit again, as well as how he selected like-minded people to be "his" Team Plasma).
 * Requires excessive admiration? Check. (The Sages and the Shadow Triad's entire roles seem to be built upon this).
 * Has a sense of entitlement: unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations? Check. (This should be obvious, given what I've described.)
 * Is "inter-personally exploitative" and uses others to achieve his or her own ends? CHECK.
 * Lacks empathy, is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and words of others? CHECK.
 * Is often envious of others and believes others are envious of him/her? Check. (This might be the trigger for his final Villainous Breakdown - he could not stand seeing N, whom he'd regarded as being less a person due to his connection to Pokemon, showing himself to be the bigger person between the two of them.)
 * Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors and attitudes? CHECK. Ghetsis is a power-hungry, narcissistic sociopath. That's all his excuse amounts to.

The single POSSIBLE mitigating factor would be how he's viewed by Sage Zinzolin and the Shadow Triad. Zinzolin found him to be inspiring and got a thrill out of following his lead, which is why he remained loyal to him in the sequels. However, it was clear that this was more about Zinzolin himself than about Ghetsis - Zinzolin wanted to feel high and mighty, and following Ghetsis gave him the pretense of that. In the post-game, he seems to have come to regret that and apologizes for his sins against society. The Triad is a trickier case. They have Undying Loyalty towards Ghetsis due to some Noodle Incident in which Ghetsis saved their lives. This would be considered a Pet the Dog if A: the event was actually shown to us, and B: if we had any idea what "saving" the Triad constituted. The Triad themselves aren't put in a very positive light, coming off as creepy, dehumanized fanatics with lines such as "I'm just a shadow" and "Battle for Ghetsis! That is the only proof that I am living now!" For all we know, the "salvation" they speak of is the equivalent of getting "saved" through discovering a new religion. There's no sufficient on-screen proof that this is a Pet the Dog, What's more, when Ghetsis fled after the events of the first game, the Triad note that he allegedly told them NOT to follow him. They do so anyway out of their loyalty, but Ghetsis clearly doesn't care enough about them to want even their support at all times.

Other considerations? - Oh boy. Again, I'll try to go with what's explicit as opposed to what's implicit or Fridge Horror. Matching him up with the trope's definition, he is a depraved, pure evil, full-stop bad guy possessing no redeeming qualities or redemptive deeds. He was the most heinous force of evil in his two games' stories. His terribleness is played dead seriously whenever he's a presence and other characters in story (Cheren, Alder, N, Hugh, even Colress) show fear, hate, and disgust towards him for his sheer atrociousness. He lacks a Freudian Excuse of any kind: he does everything out of greed, power-lust, and self-entitlement. He is completely devoid of qualities that could be seen as altruistic, positive, sympathetic, redeeming, or even relatable. He expresses zero regret for his crimes, in fact feeling justified in committing them because he is "perfect." And he is never redeemed, even rejecting the chance when it's laid out for him.

His shameless sadism is disturbing, moreso when you consider that many of the things he does in both games can be considered forms of torture (what he does to Kyurem and has Kyurem do to Unova, commanding Kyurem use Glaciate on a human child, his treatment of N and what he has Team Plasma put a lot of people through). Heck, even his Pokemon team seem to be tailor-made for use as living torture weapons on his enemies and their Pokemon.

If Ghetsis did take over Unova (and he was dangerously close to doing so) the whole Unovan economy would be a complete wreck. Remember that in the games, pretty much everything revolves around Pokémon. And then consider that he was planning on doing this same thing to the rest of the world once he had an army of nearly a region's worth of Pokemon, headed by Reshirem or Zekrom, at his disposal. Given that he has no qualms with having Pokemon OR people physically harmed (demonstrated further in the sequels) and even seems to get off on torture of all forms, and his ultimate goal is nothing short of unlimited privilege and control over everything that lives, Ghetsis would not be at all out of place in a team like Cipher.

The calculated manipulation of minds and hearts is stated by Ghetsis himself to be his prized policy for controlling the masses. And if more people became his direct followers, it'd be like seizing control of their souls as well. Ghetsis built Team Plasma on a lie about his cause in order to manipulate self righteous people who genuinely wanted to do good for Pokemon, his own son included. He made them believe that through this plan and the power of the Hero, all Pokemon would be freed from the captivity of humans, so that humans and Pokemon could be segregated into separate worlds. In reality, he intended to be the only one to use Pokemon. To enslave and abuse them for their power, which would be used to enslave and abuse people. (Again, more than any past villain, Ghetsis is extra exploitative of Pokemon themselves). Thus Ghetsis and his true intentions could be said to represents lies, hypocrisy, and corruption of a person who knowingly and maliciously takes advantage of beliefs held sacred by people that are meant to be used for helping one to better themselves and others around them, and twists them into something vile that can better suit his dark, evil, self serving agenda. He even holds public sermons and preaches on the matters, when in reality he's full of crap. This is the kind of guy who uses a just crusade as something to hide behind and sets up a phony ministry to push falsehoods onto others. Such people do exist in real life: several hypocritical religious leaders, dictators, politicians, and terrorists come to mind.

He's a sociopath, a narcissist, AND a bully who actively tries to hurt others at times because he enjoys watching their suffering, despairing, and spirits breaking. All so he can feel that much more in control and powerful. He’s a firm believer in stepping on others just to elevate himself: bring them lower to bring him higher. And he’s well aware of the fact that he’s an evil piece of work, and yet he finds himself better than every other human being despite this, or even because of it! He shows absolutely no remorse for his crimes, for he sees himself as perfect. His creation, his plans, the atrocious lengths he takes in them, and his new world order are thus “perfect” too He's self righteous about being evil. That takes something really special. And really despicable.

Final Verdict - What do you think?