No More Heroes/Headscratchers


 * I like this game, I like the gameplay and even some of the mini-games, and I'm laughing my ass off at the dialogue half the time, but... I know this game is meant to be satire, but I don't quite get it. I have a tendency to take everything at face value, so subtexts are usually lost on me... but I'd like to know exactly what to look for.
 * Well, it's pretty enjoyable regardless of what you run into. Travis Touchdown is a pretty typical parody of American geek cultures and their Marty Stus, what with the recharge animation, the goofy one-liners, and the entire break down of the story right before the number 1 ranking fight (which is pretty much a huge joke about Star Wars until the giant purple lightsaber dragon pops up). The (laughable) violence is probably meant to poke fun of games like Manhunt.
 * This Troper read somewhere that the development team's original idea was to try to be MORE violent than Manhunt 2. That's pretty much how Suda 51's crazy satirical mind works.
 * Funnily enough, this troper has and prefers the European/Japanese version, since not all of us like ridiculous amounts of violence. Having corpses turn to piles of ash makes the cutscenes rather Narmful... which probably doubles as another take on satirizing violence and censorship! Maybe. Half the problem with Suda51 is that you have no idea what's intentional and what's not... which he probably loves.
 * There's an interesting article pertaining to the satire in the game. I'm not sure if I agree with everything, but it does kind of make sense in the context of the more dramatic scenes. If anything, it makes this troper appreciate the game even more because even if Suda 51 is attacking social vices, at least he manages to keep it subtle and not be overtly Anvilicious about it, leading to a storyline that alternates nicely between the comic and the dramatic.
 * Maybe it's just the writer not having perspective, but I'd be surprised if Suda51 didn't slip some jabs at Japanese culture into there as well. The Serious Business weirdness surrounding each day job almost comes off as a parody of what I hear of the stereotypical Japanese work ethic. And it's kind of interesting that some people enjoy the minigames- Suda51 might just be getting the hang of making a game that is fun to play as well as sending a message...
 * Not to mention that he has no idea why he's fighting, or cares.
 * Not to mention Travis, while also being the American symbol of a 'gamer,' also follows the set-up and is in fact called an Otaku. An anime-loving, video-game playing geek. I think that a lot of parodies are actually bi-national; Values Dissonance isn't a constant factor.
 * That article is massively pretentious. Even if right about no more heroes, it is massively pretentious.
 * Alright, let me try my hand at explaining this. No More Heroes is a satire of the outlook one who collects video games would have. Travis represents a gamer, and the assassination missions, with their stylized, hyperviolent nature, represent videogames. The rest of the world, on the other hand, is monotonous and contains dull jobs which Travis is motivated to do only so he can get back to the missions. In other words, it is a satire of the sort of otaku who's only interaction with the outside world are purely for the purpose of acquiring more videogames/anime/etc or more money as to buy more videogames/anime/etc. Does that explain things alright?
 * The whole game is about a moe-fan-otaku turned assassin that jerks off a lot. The jerking off is the other half of the joke - the game is one big whack-off joke. What's hard to get about it?
 * The fact that Travis must go from rank #10 to #1 by killing other assassins feels like a satire of linearity in games, rather like Onett, Twoson, Threed and Fourside in Earthbound. The game isn't just linear, it actively rubs this in your face. Also, the ranks are essentially a countdown to the end of the game. Some gamers like to feel that a game might last forever until they actually get to the end, but NMH makes this impossible.
 * It's established at the beginning of the game that anyone on the UAA's ranking ladder can challenge the person above him to a duel to claim that person's place on the ladder, right? In that case, why doesn't, say, Shinobu ever challenge Destroyman for seventh?
 * Because Travis got there first.
 * Also, most sane people probably wouldn't pay a lot of money to fight an opponent who is probably much better than you, and will probably kill you. Especially since there doesn't seem to be many bonuses towards moving up the ranks apart from making you a bigger target.
 * My guess was that, by then, most of the UAA had figured out the scam behind the entire thing and were done with the whole thing, sitting on their current ranks and washing their hands of the whole thing. They are all still sociopaths, but they all seem to have some degree of deeper understanding behind everything that is going on, unlike Travis who hasn't caught on yet and is still merrily slicing and dicing his way to the "top".
 * I think it's because some of the assassins feel safe in their ranks. Death Metal and Dr. Peace especially. Shinobu wouldn't try to outrank Destroyman because that would make hiding her true self harder with a higher rank.
 * I thought the whole UAA business was
 * If plot details on Wikipedia are to be believed,
 * The problem is that it isn't clear from the dialogue
 * If they're career assassins as well as glorified gladiators, they may put more importance in the actual assassination part of the job. Travis had a reason to make it to Number 1 in both games, but no one else really did. They may consider their ranks incidental to the job.
 * WTF is up with the Garden of Madness?
 * You expect a place named the garden of madness to make sense?
 * All you need to know about the Garden of Madness is to trust your Force.
 * A friend of mine who knew some ancient slang suggested it referred to cunnilingus.
 * I figure it was just a parody catch phrase--like how a lot of video games have pseudo-philosophical dialogue to make it seem like it's actually art. NMH just doesn't care what it means.
 * Why does Sylvia's scam have such a fucking low profit margin? LB dollars seem to have an exchange rate of about 5,000:1 with American money. LB$550,000, then, are, only, 1,100 U.S.D. She rides chauffeured limousines, goes to expensive spas and eats at fancy restaurants. How does she make more than a few L Bs per victim?
 * It's possible the LB dollar has an exchange rate on par with the Japanese Yen. The game was made by a Japanese developer, and some of the prices used are comparable to price tags in Japan.
 * Your exchange rate is speculation. It's a bit believable considering how you can get 2000 L Bs in a dumpster, but still highly doubtful. My question is what the hell LB stands for?
 * Lb. is the abbreviation for pound. A pound is the (former) currency of Britain. Take from that what you will.
 * Former currency? Last time I checked my wallet we were still using the Pound.
 * True, but it uses it to refer to a location, you know, like someone says "US Dollars" so LB must refer to a location of some sort.
 * This seems to be the case, as apparently there's such a thing as an "LB Army" in the game as well.
 * Maybe LB is an abbreviation for whatever the United states is called in the NMH universe?
 * The game takes place in Santa Destroy, California. You also find a box of US Military Secrets at one point as well. I have no freakin' clue either at what LB is supposed to mean, much less why it's formally abbreviated to LB$
 * Maybe the currency shares the name with Lovikov Balls, but it's shortened to LB to avoid confusion. Or it's just another reference to Lucha Libre.
 * Lebanese dollars? LBP is Lebanese pounds... Reflecting the Crapsack World state of the city?
 * Since Henry killed Letz Shake, shouldn't he have become the 5th Ranked, instead of Travis?
 * Henry couldn't officially challenge, since he was not 6th ranked; Travis was. Travis moved up by default.
 * Also, it appears Henry is already the number 0 assassin, and thus is already higher than Letz Shake.
 * Sylvia explained it: It was an official fight, and he'd win if his opponent died for any reason.
 * The UAA exists for the sole purpose of ranking the top assassins in America. Since Henry is probably an Irish citizen, he doesn't actually qualify for any UAA rank.
 * He could be naturalized. Keep in mind that Death Metal, Letz Shake, Harvey, and Holly all have accents too.
 * Considering the truth behind the UAA and Henry's relation to Sylvia, why would he be a part of the UAA at all?
 * Where does Holly keep all those missiles? And don't say Hammerspace or hyperspace.
 * She keeps them in her prosthetic leg.
 * And why can't it be hammerspace? It's a gameplay element. Jeez.
 * How come there are four save slots when it is only possible to load the most recent save?
 * You can load a different file from the pause menu.
 * Does "Pleather for Breakfast" actually have lyrics or is the singer just drunk out of her skull and slurring to the tune?
 * The lyrics are backwards. Same for Shinobu's theme as well.
 * No they're not. After listening to it for about 5 hours without noticing that I left it on I started understanding the lyrics: "I love you babe, that's a sickness. Heaven loves you for being a SLUT." The second half changes every now and then. Haven't caught the lyrics for those yet.
 * This troper heard; "I love you, Babe, Ecstasy Yes/No. That's the﻿ cue for me so let's go."
 * I think that it's actually "I love you babe, that's suggesti-No! That's the cue for me, so let's go!
 * I once saw it written as "'I love you, babe.' That's what you said, yes? No? That's enough of you for me, so let's go!"
 * So the UAA measures the top 11 assassins in the US. If the ranking is determined by the skill and success rate of the assassins, as pure semantics would indicate, wouldn't a more effective way to reach the top be simply to take a lot of assassination jobs of non-assassins? You'd avoid having to fight batshits like Destroyman and Bad Girl, and you wouldn't do your lower-ranked competitors the favor of increasing their rank for them. Sure, that'd make a duller game, but it's strange that no one even acknowledges that there's an alternative to Klingon Promotion.
 * It doesn't matter if you're the world's greatest assassin with the UAA. It's more of a glorified fight club that lends its services from time to time.
 * Or see another theory; "world's most deadly pyramid scheme". People with more pride, brawn and money than sense all getting suckered into slaughtering each other for kicks and self-importance, with Sylvia bankrolling.
 * Alternatively, the "fee" you pay Sylvia is partly used to take an assassination contract on the next ranked assassin, where she then warns that person ahead of time that Travis is coming after them
 * Why does Travis have a fax machine? Maybe Sylvia told him to get one when he joined the UAA but I dunno...
 * That's probably a slight cultural slip-up on Suda51's part. A fax machine in the USA (or pretty much any Western nation) is a rare sight, but Japanese use faxes almost constantly.
 * Considering Travis is an incredibly insane take on the Otaku, and that certain self-described Otaku obsessively try to emulate Japanese culture, perhaps Travis bought a fax machine to feel more Japanese.
 * Alternatively, he found it dumpster diving and thought that it looked cool.
 * The same reason I own an electric typewriter that I got for $10 at a garage sale...
 * I thought it was just another retro thing, whether in-universe or not. Travis also watches videotapes and doesn't own a computer.
 * Which makes even less sense as he won the Blood Berry off of a 'net auction. But then again, his best buddy at Beef Head Videos has a  Apple computer sitting on the counter, so I guess he could have been hanging out there one day when he bought it.
 * Margaret pretty obviously wrote her song about Travis. When did she write and record it? Was it in the couple of days it took Travis to climb the ranks again? Did she know about Travis' battles three years previously? Did Alice tell her about him? How does she know so much about him, since nearly everyone who runs into him gets sliced in half?
 * Magic.
 * Remember how insanely long the parking lot fight is before her? Maybe she already had some info on Travis and when she got word he'd showed up she sent out tons and tons of mooks to keep him distracted so she could write the song.
 * She likely had the tune down, as her Protoman whistle shows. She probably just came up with it on the spot. He was also something of a legend in town,so she had likely heard of this Otaku Assassin.
 * My only, not problem, but confusion was about Margaret.... Why a supermarket? It seems like such a random place to fight her. Every other boss is fought either somewhere they hang out a lot, or where they happened to be at the time, or a place that they probably agreed to meet beforehand, and even then, those do make sense. Margaret's arena is the only one that doesn't seem to have anything to do with who she is. Yeah, you get the sky-consuming moon at the time, but couldn't that be done with any rooftop?
 * Not many rooftops have a rotating sign that you can easily snipe from, and I have the European version with the o-tuned version of her song, so I always just assumed it was she was using the supermarket's Tannoy system to sing her song at Travis.
 * The assassin rankings were already pretty bizarre for the first game, but Desperate Struggle's cross the line into absurdity. How have people like Matt Helms not been overtaken by Charlie MacDonald yet?
 * Maybe he was going to go after Matt, but Travis came after him before he could? I can see your point though, Charlie probably would have been able to take on any other opponent in the UAA and win(Well, except for the #1 Ranked) just due to the fact that he can crush them with his mecha. Travis only stood a chance because he also had a mecha.
 * To get to Matt Helms' battle, Travis had to go through an Akashic Point. Now I don't know how they work, but I'm pretty sure you can't take a giant mecha through there; it seems to big. Without that mecha, I don't think Charlie and his cheerleaders were strong enough to fight Matt Helms by themselves (even with their number superiority).
 * It's actually quite simple: once you have a rank, you can only advance by defeating the assassin's above you. Who was above Charlie? His groupies. He didn't want to kill the rest of his team, so he was stuck where he was.
 * Actually, his groupies are number 50-26. He's 25.
 * Well, if what Alice tells you before you fight her applies to almost all the ranked assassins you fight, maybe Charlie really didn't care about advancing up the ranks anymore, despite his upbeat attitude. He just wanted a way out like everyone else.
 * I figured that being undead, Matt Helms may have been actually killed by some specially prepared bullet of Sylvia rather than by conventional means.
 * Didn't Sylvia say something about that you can't kill what's already dead? I think she just shot Matt Helms in the head with a ordinary gun just to prevent him from harming Travis.
 * I figured the assassins have fallen into despondency within the 3 year time skip after realizing how hard the bloodlust has grabbed them. They then lost all ambition and stopped caring about the ranks, sating their bloodlust on assassinations.
 * I suppose you have to go into each fight on your own to advance. And Charlie can't from his Mecha without his cheerleaders, so he'd just lose.
 * In the first NMH, Henry cleaves Dr. Letz Shake in half, despite the fact that the late Doctor was easily more than 3x his size. I'm sure plenty of the other assassins in the organization could have taken out Charlie. If you can't really imagine how that would happen in an anime style like the game is based off of, you could always think of them bringing down the mech Shadow of the Colossus style.
 * Henry claims to have killed three ranked fighters for you, but the only numbers between Ryuji and Margaret are five and six.
 * The wiki reasons one of them wasn't ranked.
 * That was probably more to show off three assassins that had to be cut for time (killer baseball player, killer taxi driver, assassin with killer dogs).
 * Or, perhaps two of the assassins shared a rank? (New Destroyman was technically 2 people, or just two halves of the same person; maybe two of them were fraternal twins and shared some sort of mental link with their personalities? Considering the game in question, it's not that far out of the realm of possibility.)
 * Then there's the other explanation, that the third of the three ranked killers was one from below, like Kimmy. This turns into Fridge Horror when you realise that means Kimmy's been beaten, and in turn likely killed.
 * If Captain Vladamir has been lost in space since the cold war space race, how did he become the rank three assassin in the past 3 years?
 * I figure he was just chillin' all crazy-like in that field when the former third-ranked assassin wandered into it and got wiped out by his routine beamspam. The UAA decided that since he'd killed the third-ranked assassin he should be given their position, and he ended up keeping it since it's kind of hard to fight a space program.
 * That sounded like half a Bel Air.
 * He could communicate with the Killsat. Easy way to commit assassinations and take out other assassins.
 * I thought Word of God was that Vladmir had been on Earth all this time, but a series of organizations had been taking control of the Killsat for decades and sending him false sensory information about being lost on a series of alien worlds with hostile environments so he never took his space suit helmet off to see the truth with his own eyes. The Killsat controllers would pretend to be sentient non-human inhabitants of the world he was on, feeding him simplistic imperialist oppressor vs. oppressed revolutionary stories that would trick him into doing whatever they wanted, mostly assassinating the controller's enemies.
 * Three things. One: Why is Kimmy Howell described as "all-American" in Sylvia's letter if she clearly speaks with a British accent? Two: Why do all the assassins in Desperate Struggle have such lame, run-of-the-mill names? Seriously, we used to have badass names like Death Metal, Destroyman, and Dr. Peace, and now... Nathan Copeland and Charlie McDonald. Yeah. Third: Has anyone noticed that Travis never washes his hands after "dropping a nice save"? Hygiene-impaired slob indeed!
 * 1.I'm all American but I have a slight accent due to the people around me. Besides she was probably referring to her fangirlish yandere personality with that.
 * 2.Suda just kinda rushed the entire game. Really sad.
 * Rushed? I know he cut out the three Henry fights after his nightmare, but... well, for a rushed game, this was spectacular!
 * Yeah the game was spectacular but he did cut out ALOT. Those three fights, the city map, almost none of the assassins had the characterization they had in the first game, 12 goddamn assassins that were killed by Dr. Letz Shake, he added about 12-15 more cheerleaders in the Charlie fight so you lose even more total fights...So Yeah
 * Taking into account Letz Shake from the first game, it's entirely possible he always planned to cut a lot of fights.
 * Suda said from the very beginning that despite starting off rank 51, there wouldn't actually be anywhere near 51 boss fights in the game, so people had better not get their hopes up. The only obviously cut material are the 3 Henry bosses in which Henry was supposed to have his own sidestory like Shinobu. And the city was always planned to be a menu since so many people hated navigating the city from the first game.
 * And lastly, in-universe, the UAA had become more of an organized blood sport. Code names were no longer needed with the combatents being showcased and treated like gladiators, and the organization had them register their real names. Hence, the run-of-the-mill names were intentional, to show not only had things changed dramatically, but to start showing that these assasains are human too. Note that some like Dr Letz Shake kept the codenames, but became radically altered to the point of not being really human anymore. It's actually symbolic, and is likely more realistic.
 * It's possibly lampshading it. The thing that makes Kimmy "All American" is her inanity, childishness, and netspeak, not where she's born. Actual nationality doesn't define "American" anymore, only stereotypical behavior.
 * You gotta kinda look at this game differently when looking at the names. In the first game, there were only eleven assassins. Because of this (also because it was a sham) Sylvia probably wanted all the assassins who going to be fighting the idiot who joined the ranks have really awesome names, like wrestlers. However, in the second game, Sylvia claims that the UAA has become mainstream, therefore a completely real sport, so if anyone was going to join they would have very average names because they were regular people (kinda) who decided to join.
 * Suda said this would be the last game in the series starring Travis, but Desperate Struggle's ending felt to me more like the ending of the Empire Strikes Back. Yes, Batz is dead, but the UAA is still active and Travis basically declared war on them at the end of DS, so . ..
 * Here's my idea for two different ways for how the third game could go. One: In order to take down the UAA, Travis gathers a bunch of assassins by sending Henry and Shinobu to fight and see who's strong enough to join, don't kill them unless they suck. When somebody joins, they can be playable, so at the end of the game you have nine or ten playable characters. Maybe they could even do a Mass Effect and have missions to upgrade the characters. Then the last boss is a huge boss rush where you have to play as each unlocked character in their own boss battle. They would all have to have different abilities too. Henry and Shinobu we know, but another could focus on gunplay, one could be a martial-arts fighter with plasma gloves that kill people, another is a big black guy with a hammer with a jetpack on the back so he can throw it, one is an android that uses buzzsaw arms, or there's a magical girl with a stripperiffic outfit, or a chain-smoking Gambit-expy; anyway this is the more RPG route that I envision, and at the end you control Travis again and take on a dark clone of him or something. That ending kind of sucks, and I realize as I said that this rips off Mass Effect some, but I think playing someone who doesn't use a sword would be neat.
 * Two: The game would focus on Kimmie Howell, who didn't listen to Travis and is now searching for Travis after he has faded into obscurity again, killing whoever gives her information because she can. Travis meanwhile has decided to kill every assassin that exists in order to deter more from rising up so the UAA doesn't rise again. This would keep the same style as the first game. The second option is more likely, and its all just WMG, and the first idea is fanwank, so, yeah...
 * As for me, if they don't reuse Travis again, I'd love for the third game to be a Lovely Angels / Buddy Cop Show deconstruction starring Shinobu and Kimmy as some sort of sword-wielding Thelma and Louise / Odd Couple.
 * Here's how I think the third game should go...*ahem* After the events of NMH2, Travis and Sylvia get married (not before a quick divorce from Henry however. Things begin going swimmingly for Travis as he's living the life of his dreams. Unfortunately, things quickly go bad as Sylvia divorces Travis and takes all the money he had earned (from assassination gigs or some other jobs). Essentially defeated, Travis says "F*ck this!" And moves away from Santa Destroy with what little dignity he has left. Wanting to be as far away from Sylvia as possible he moves to a city in Florida known as Dieami (clever ain't I?). There he meets a teenager known as Cyrus Summers, who is the local punching bag. Offering to teach him a few tricks, Travis takes him under his wing. Cut to a celebratory party for Cyrus' awesome training, some crazy b*tch walks in and demands to fight Travis. Travis being to drunk, hands his katana to Cyrus, to which he promptly accepts and kills her dead. But it looks like this was an elaborate ruse to trick by Sylvia to get Cyrus to join the UAA, which now has a whopping 600 combatants. Travis forbids it, but Cyrus wants to do it, resulting in an action packed romp around the US. Off-ing assassins wherever they go, with the occasional help of Shinobu, Henry, a mysterious girl at the rank of 5, and even Travis himself. NO MORE HEROES 3: A KILLERS NATION. And yes, I have put way too much thought into this.
 * Travis won the Blood Berry on a net auction, but why doesn't he have a computer?
 * He used Bishop's.
 * In the little mini comic on the official site, it shows he has a laptop.
 * If they have to die when they lose, why are Shinobu, Kimmy and Travis still alive?(He surrendered, remember?)
 * Kimmy wasn't ranked, and Shinobu can probably fight well enough to avoid being killed by the UAA.
 * Actually,is strongly implied in the cutscene after Ryuji's death that Kimmy was killed by the UAA.
 * Sylvia esd referring to Shinobu. And she didn't imply so.
 * During Travis' fight with  you can hear him say "Do you even know what you're fighting for?"
 * Do they ever explain why
 * Personally, it seemed as though Dark Star was genuinely mistaken about, and was nebulously referring to past events in some other twenty-something loser's life.
 * The player wanted the ten boss fights they were promised, but was cheated out of Letz Shake by Henry. That's why they're fighting.
 * , Same with We get that they're all Akashic Points, but some logic would be nice.
 * Vladimir has had theories put forward above. The Akashic Point bosses... well, maybe the UAA simply sought out new assassins on their own with the old rankings gone.
 * Why does Travis say to press the A Button in the opening cutscene of the first game? Cutscenes are skipped by pressing the ''+ Button"
 * The A Button is what makes games start like the start button?
 * The A Button is what makes you draw your beam katana to start the first mission and - by extension - the game.
 * Doesn't really have anything to do with the games, but why did they split the original NMH and Desperate Struggle into two separate TV Tropes articles?
 * Probably because both games are big enough to do that. Having both games in folders on one page has worked for other series, but this way probably works just as well. Besides, both games are different enough to probably warrant an individual page for each.
 * How in the hell can a Laser Sword be blocked by a freaking baseball bat?
 * This is the same baseball bat that can turn a human into an effective projectile weapon. Don't question it.
 * The beam katana isn't just a weapon made of a laser. There are solid parts to the blade, and that's what's being blocked.
 * Note that I have mostly secondhand knowledge, but people say that this is a satire of the "gamer". Only that doesn't make much sense, to me. Satire's intent is to condemn, but Travis Touchdown ("Travis T.") manages to become the best assassin in the United States via an eBay beam sword and sheer willpower. In the end of NMH1, doesn't he . He's never really shown to fail in anything he sets out to do, as far as I know. I could buy Affectionate Parody or caricature, but the games seem far too sympathetic and condoning of him for them to be actual satire.
 * He doesn't. It's revealed that . And really, it wasn't sheer willpower that made him join the rankings; he just wanted to get laid.   He's only slightly worse off than he was before all this
 * The sequel seems to prove that the UAA did exist, and Travis really was the first-ranked assassin.
 * It might be a little nitpick, but am I the only one that notices that Travis never wipes. And it's not like he doesn't have or can't afford toilet paper. He's got plenty of it in his bathroom. He just doesn't use it.
 * When we press A to save, the screen covers itself in toilet paper. He could have wiped up during that time. So yes, we are viewing the screen through his ass.
 * So about that "Forbidden View" mode in the Play Station 3 version of the sequel. Why oh why Suda 51, can't Travis be in it as well? No More Heroes, Lollipop Chainsaw, full of fanservicey ladies...why can't we even the playing field?
 * Author Appeal
 * So what do Shinobu, Kimmy, and Sylvia actually see in Travis? The guy swallowed his own gargle water, never appears to wipe, nor wash his hands. Plus, he decided to
 * This may come off as fan whining, but why didn't the rerelease of No More Heroes come to the wii as well? It would have been easy to modify the existing game and sell it for cheap. I guess I'm just bitter that every great third party game for the wii seems to get a better release on other systems.
 * In the sequel, Travis instantly jumps ranks by killing the 25th ranked assassin. Why didn't he just killer higher ranked assassins from the very beginning--killing the 3rd ranked assassin instead of the starting with the 11th, and so on?
 * You misunderstood. Travis didn't just kill the 25th ranked assassin, all those cheerleaders were also ranked assassins. He killed the 25th ranked assassin and the 26th-49th ranked assassins all in one go.
 * I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up!
 * If how could they have possibly both been in college? Henry would have been 17 and Sylvia would have been 14 (as she was 24 in the first NMH).