Spider-Man/YMMV


 * Spider-Girl
 * Ultimate Spider-Man
 * One More Day
 * Brand New Day


 * Alas, Poor Villain:.
 * Alternative Character Interpretation: just... take a look at this series of essays on Goblin...
 * Base Breaker: Mary Jane Watson. An interesting case because the split largely occurs between the audience and the creators (most of the fans love her, while many at Marvel hate her).
 * Carnage has shades of this: his Complete Monster status causes him to be seen as a Generic Doomsday Villain by some fans, why other appreciate him precisely for the same reason. This was pretty much visible seeing as there are almost as many people who were mad when he died at the hand of Sentry than when he turned out to have survived.
 * And the Fandom Rejoiced: "Spider-Island" ends
 * Ass Pull: Flint Marko's Face Heel Turn. After spending nearly two decades (close to half of his existence) as a good guy, he showed up in the relaunched post-Clone Saga Amazing Spider-Man as a villain again for no explained reason. It took a retcon (see Brainwashed and Crazy on the character page) to explain why he was evil again and ever since then he's gone back to being something closer to an Anti-Villain.
 * Black Hole Sue: Aunt May at times. More than once someone has argued that May is the "most important person" in Peter Parker's life, which tends to lead to a lot of creepy associations. In reality, she largely tends to be the person Peter structures his life around, all the while making him feel guilty whenever he lives his own life. A recent story said that Peter's "greatest sin" was running off the night of Uncle Ben's death to bring in his murderer and not sticking around to comfort Aunt May. Because Peter couldn't have been dealing with any emotional problem of his own.
 * Broken Base: Spider-Man's marriage, between those who saw it as the natural evolution of the character to those who think it "ruined him forever".
 * It's not so much that they didn't agree, just hated the way they went about (un)doing it.
 * Carlie's elevation to Love Interest not so long after One More Day has understandably caused dissension over whether she's a good potential romantic interest, or if she's just the symbol to enforce the new Status Quo.
 * A lot of debate Peter's portrayal since the launch of "Brand New Day".
 * Complete Monster: Norman Osborn as well as his Green Goblin persona. One is a cold, calculating sociopath who is has no problems with committing atrocities in order to help himself, while the other is an unhinged giggling lunatic who loves to blow people up. Pick your poison.
 * And then there's Cletus Kasady, who was a real piece of work even before becoming Carnage. After bonding with the symbiote, he got even worse.
 * Carl King, AKA The Thousand, is what happens when a bully never matures and turns to serial murder and cannibalism on the path to killing the person who got a luckier break than him.
 * Crazy Awesome: Jameson once yelled at GODZILLA.
 * Creator's Pet: Carlie Cooper! Good Gods, when will it stop! Everyone, and everyone seems to think she is the perfect woman for Peter. Even Mary Jane, the same woman who once said her marriage to Peter was the most important thing in the world to her and that she loved Peter more than anything else, is actually pushing for her former husband to hook up with this girl. Also, Carlie is named after Joe Quesada's daughter.
 * Also, she gets a ton of shilling on how awesome she is, despite never really showing these feats herself. Is shipped to be Peter's "perfect match" by everyone from Aunt May to Harry Osborn to Mary Jane Watson, despite having little chemistry with him to begin with. And is stated to have  A significant victim of "Show, Don't Tell".
 * Creepy Awesome: The first Venom.
 * Derailing Love Interests: Happens to Mary Jane. A LOT. Basically, whenever a writer wants to break them up, they'll try to do so in a way to make Peter look like a victim so he can angst over it. First time was her rejection of his proposal and shallow break up with him (though while MJ was yet to finish her character development and was a bit shallow, it was STILL very out of character for her to be so unapologetic about it), second time was serious bitchification before then killing her off (didn't last, fortunately), third time was, AFTER they allready broke up, they decided to have One Moment in Time to explain that it was all MJ's fault, and wrote her as an emotional trainwreck who was ready to break down from stress. Thankfully, only some fans take these at face value and blame MJ for the bad writing.
 * Draco in Leather Pants: Dr. Octopus, Venom.
 * Ensemble Darkhorse: Mary Jane Watson, to the point that a large majority of the book's fanbase consider her and not Aunt May to be the most important person in Peter's life.
 * Toxin was also one. Shame that he suffered from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome for so long before.
 * To a lesser extent, Toxin's father Carnage as well as his grandfather Venom.
 * J. Jonah Jameson, when he's written as a multi-dimensional character. There's a reason why fans complain loudly when a writer decides to write J.J.J. as a borderline psychopath obsessed with destroying Spider-Man.
 * Flash has become the new, heroic Venom and has his own ongoing series.
 * Mr. Negative is one of the better liked new villains from BND.
 * The Shocker. A goofy costume, a Non-Indicative Name (his powers are based on vibration and air blasts, not electricty) and a reputation for being a bit of a joke thanks to outside media and Ultimate Spider-Man. Yet thanks to his Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain and his more pragmatic approach to villainy (and perhaps being a big part of the '90s cartoon) fans absolutely love him. So much so that when Marvel ran a poll asking fans to pick the next member of the Thunderbolts Shocker won quite handily in a poll that included characters like Sandman and Absorbing Man.
 * Evil Is Cool: Harry, Norman, Octopus, Venom.
 * Evil Is Sexy: Harry, Octopus, Venom (even in-universe, apparently).
 * Fashion Victim Villain: Electro thanks to his goofy looking lightning bolt mask and his lime-green tights. It's no surprise that in most adaptations, he usually looks much different (Such as him turning into an energy being or wearing a black outfit with a lightning bolt shape cut into it).
 * It Got Worse: And yet... somehow his John Byrne-created costume was uglier.
 * Mysterio's fishbowl has been the source of many a joke. Ultimate replaces it with flames, and Shattered Dimensions with a distorted mirror.
 * Shocker is brought to you by Serta!
 * Averted somewhat - while the costume looks like someone took a pineapple quilt and turned it into a uniform, it serves to absorb the backblast from Herman's blast gauntlets. Also, small shock panels woven into the fabric make him hard to grapple and allow him to take a punch from Spider-Man without breaking his jaw. Basically, Shocker sacrificed vanity for practicality.
 * Gannon Banned: Some fans get really upset if you leave out the hyphen.
 * As does Spidey himself. He thinks it makes him sound like the Jewish family down the street. Honey, let's have the Spider-Mans over for dinner.
 * Hilarious in Hindsight: In one issue, Spider-Man is on trial and when asked why Jameson might hate him, he jokes that it's because he's black. Then came Ultimate Fallout...
 * It Was His Sled: Poor Gwen...
 * Lately,
 * Jerkass Woobie: Black Cat, Harry Osborn, Dr. Octopus, Eddie Brock.
 * Magnificent Bastard: Norman Osborn, Hobgoblin, Dr. Octopus (Depending on the Writer).
 * Memetic Molester: Norman Osborn for being an all-around creep who has had sexual relations with Gwen Stacy and his obsession with Spider-Man, as well as Venom. Eddie's jealousy for Peter and the Symbiote's resentment for being rejected makes Venom sound like a spurned lover, and his affinity for going after Spider-Man with tentacles do NOT help his image either...
 * Moral Event Horizon:
 * The Green Goblin killing Gwen Stacy. To many, this was officially were Norman went past the point of no return.
 * In Brand New Day,.
 * Motive Decay:
 * Dr. Octopus tends to jump around from being the strongest around, to destroying New York / The World, to ruling New York / The World, proving he's the smartest, or being a crime lord. Justified Trope when you take his brain damage into account.
 * Just about every adaptation featuring him has gone out of their way to invert this for Venom, making his dislike of Spidey and / or Peter much more personal, if not any more well-founded.
 * My Real Daddy: De Matteis' work on Kraven and his kids has clearly influenced every subsequent story about the character.
 * Narm: Morbius in The Animated Series thanks to Executive Meddling, (apparently Fox Executives won't let vampires drink blood): "I hunger for PLASMA!"
 * Never Live It Down:
 * The One More Day fiasco.
 * And more after it, such as Spidey somehow being dumb to realize he was drinking alcohol and not soda as he first thought, resulting in a one night stand.
 * And yet surprisingly averted when he backhanded a pregnant Mary Jane. Though long-time fans understandably criticize this one moment, you're not likely to find any writers willing to reference it in any way. Hank Pym would surely and understandably be envious of that.
 * Most media portrayals forever portray Flash as the Jerk Jock.
 * Justified, in that they usually start with Peter just / only recently getting his powers, which is when Flash was the resident Jerk Jock. However, when you look at the animated series from the mid-90's, Flash started out as the Jerk Jock, but underwent Character Development and became a Jerk with a Heart of Gold.
 * Also, Peter's Wangsty behavior during "The Clone Saga", Mary Jane once leaving him and turning down his marriage proposal, Venom's cannibalism, and Harry's drug addiction are all pretty minor parts to their character, yet some people don't seem to realize that. The first ends up being an overly cited problem with Spidey books, the second is probably a major cause for Mary Jane's status as a Base Breaker, the third ends up being the defining trait of Ultimate Venom, and the fourth, surprisingly, is handled pretty well by writers when they want to.
 * Chameleon's getting beaten up by a baseball bat wielding Mary Jane generally weakens the threat of the character.
 * Nightmare Fuel: There have been plenty of very dark stories over the years ("Kraven's Last Hunt", where Kraven the Hunter descends into madness, and drugs and buries Spidey alive, comes to mind immediately). Carnage and Venom also come to mind, with Venom being portrayed as a murderous stalker who knows Spider-Man's secret identity and is immune to Spider-Man's Spider Sense. A more recent example would be the story arc "Shed", where the Lizard destroys his human side, and goes on a horrible rampage.
 * The Venom suit as well. An organism capable of sentient thought that relies on other organisms to live via a symbiotic bond. It affects you not unlike a drug, altering your state of mind and making you crave its power. While it provides benefits to you, it also uses your body against your will as it pleases and takes a toll on you in the long run. Once removed, some fragments of it retain inside the blood, as the rest retains not only the thoughts you shared, but all of your memories, that it will then share with its next host. It holds a grudge, will crave blood when it wants, and has an obsessive personality towards former hosts. Not to mention the powers it grants to its users, ranging from claws to tendrils. And the kicker? When it reproduces, it's offspring is more powerful. And in the hands of an insane serial killer like Cletus Kasady...
 * Purity Sue: Gwen Stacy's current characterization.
 * Relationship Sue: Carlie Cooper appeared on the cover of "The Many Loves of Spider-Man" before even hooking up with Peter.
 * Replacement Scrappy:
 * Ben Reilly.
 * Carlie Cooper, for Mary Jane.
 * And to some, Mary Jane for Gwen.
 * Rescued from the Scrappy Heap:
 * The Scarlet Spider's pretty much the one good thing from "The Clone Saga", aside from the opening before it got too long.
 * Kaine in Spider Girl, depending on how you felt about his Nineties Anti-Hero characterization.
 * Ruined FOREVER: Many fans' reaction after OMD.
 * The Scrappy:
 * Aunt May, to those who feel her character has become The Artifact.
 * Madame Web.
 * Cletus Kasady/Carnage for quite a few people. While he does have a fanbase, lots of people hate him for being a one-dimensional villain who is obsessed with killing and destruction and see him as pretty much the embodiment of everything that was wrong with comics in the nineties.
 * Seinfeld Is Unfunny: Unlike his fellow heroes, when Spider-Man first came along, he was just a teenager. Teenagers tended to be sidekicks for the more adult heroes, but Spidey was himself the hero. These days, teenage superheroes operating on their own is common place.
 * Gwen Stacy's death. At the time, it was one of the most surprising developments in comics as a hero's love interest was considered totally safe. After this storyline, other writers would follow suit for other characters, taking the edge off the initial surprise. Once again, it's common place.
 * Sequel Displacement: Gargan is actually Venom III, but Venom II was a complete pansy and didn't last very long, so many forget he existed.
 * Squick: Kraven's daughter, who, instead of Most Common Superpower, was a hot Pettanko chick with rockabilly hair and tight clothing. We later find out Curse you, ambiguous art style!
 * The Venom symbiote, combined with a douse of Nightmare Fuel when you think a bit about it.
 * Joe Q. named Carlie Cooper, a love interest of Peter Parker, after his daughter.
 * Strangled by the Red String: Joe Q. has been shoving Carlie down the throats of readers and pointing out how perfect she is for Peter. The dead give away for this was when Carlie was featured as a main character in "The Many Loves of Spider-Man" before actually hooking up with him.
 * How some people feel about Mary Jane and Peter getting together. Right down to some bloggers insisting that OMD is, somehow and example of how 'forced Mary Jane and Peter is.
 * Theme Pairing: Puma & Black Cat.
 * They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Dilbert Trilby, the obituary writer at The Daily Bugle. He's a great character; a jaded, high-strung guy who feels he's unappreciated because of all the great articles he has to retract (and most would agree with him). Unfortunately, he has appeared in only two stories, both of them involving Dr. Octopus' death and being brought Back From the Dead by the Hand. It's a shame they haven't decided to use Trilby more, because he's got tons of humor potential, and it would be nice to see how civilians handle the high recovery rate of deceased superhumans more often.
 * They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: In the Mark Millar Marvel Knights Spider-Man, for the first time The Green Goblin and Doc Ock met and... it was disappointing. Really, Ock was drugged up and acting crazier and it was one of the few disappointing parts of the arc.
 * Gargan's whole career is built off this. First he has an awesome intro where he pummels Spidey to a pulp not once, but twice! And then there's there's the awesome potential that he knows that Jameson helped create him and after he is first defeated Jameson thinks 'my secret is safe... but for how long?' Only for people to apparently know about it by the time The Fly comes onto the scene in the 1970's. In Scorpion's second appearance, the second fight is downplayed. And then he seems to have some awesome potential during the twelve issue Mark Millar Spider-Man storyline where he serves as The Dragon to that Big Bad and eventually gains the Symbiote. Despite being beaten quickly, it seems like Millar was leaving him with the chance to become something great... only for writers to use him crappily.
 * The aforementioned Venom II, also from Millar's run. A mobster's son is given the suit to man up, and one of his first acts is to kill a former bully of Peter's after identifying Peter as Spidey at his reunion. What happens? Does this new Venom re-establish the symbiote as a great and dangerous villain, showing why Venom was a compelling villain. Nope, Spidey owns him, he runs, the suit abandons the host, causing him to fall to his death. Sigh.
 * Too Cool to Live: Sure Marvel, kill Reilly when you're not trying to replace Peter Parker anymore!
 * Uncanny Valley: In his earlier appearances, Peter was distrusted for emulating a creepy crawly so well. Throw in his sometimes rather painful-looking contortions, as well as his incessant prattling, and its understandable that he might freak some bystanders out.
 * Unpopular Popular Character: In-universe example. Spider-Man is almost consistently feared and distrusted by the masses.
 * Villain Decay: When Venom and Spider-Man fought for the first time, Venom almost killed him. A later time they fought, Venom nearly killed him again, forcing Peter to fake his death. When Carnage first showed up, Venom took on both Spidey AND the Human Torch (fire being one of his weaknesses). Fast forward a few years to the end of the 1990's. Spidey sends him running scared with a Zippo.
 * Wangst: Brock during the "Lethal Protector" run.
 * Spider-Man when written poorly can fall into this. His "Parker is dead, I am the Spider!" phase in the '90s and One More Day are the most frequently cited examples. He had a lot of this in the early Lee/Ditko stories too before John Romita took Ditko's place. And the film is pretty guilty of this as well.
 * The Woobie: Debra Whitman.

Examples from Spider-Man in Other Media

 * Atari 2600 Spider Man
 * Japanese Spider-Man
 * Spider Man 1967
 * Spider-Man the Animated Series
 * Spider-Man the New Animated Series
 * Spider-Man Web of Shadows
 * Spider Man Shattered Dimensions
 * The Spectacular Spider-Man


 * Actor Shipping: Usually Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst.
 * Alas, Poor Villain: Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2 as well as Norman Osborn in the first film.
 * Awesome Music: Too bad this only shows up in the fighting games he's in...
 * Here's the original from Marvel Super Heroes, and here's the jazzy rendition from Marvel vs. Capcom. Needless to say, fans are hoping that this theme gets remixed for Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (Who do you think they're kidding? Spidey's a shoe-in!).
 * And lo, there it is!
 * Listen all you fools! Don't you know that 16-bit Carnage Rules? and here's the original by Green Jelly!
 * The Animated Series Theme tune?
 * With an awesome arrangement for the first PlayStation game and especially this version from the sequel.
 * Non Sequitur Scene: The dance scene in Spider-Man 3.
 * Complete Monster: As one would expect, Norman Osborn a.k.a the Green Goblin counts. He's a lot more tragic than most examples, but still hits every mark on the dot regardless.
 * Damsel Scrappy: Poor, poor Mary Jane.
 * Ear Worm: The intros of the 1960's Spider Man, 1990's Spider Man and Spectacular Spider Man cartoons.
 * Ensemble Darkhorse:
 * Willem Dafoe as Norman Osborn/Green Goblin = Win.
 * J.K. Simmons' perfect portrayal of J. Jonah Jameson has won him the hearts of many people.
 * BOOONESAAAW'S REEEEAAAAADDDYYYYY!
 * A number of people were rooting for an Ursula/Peter romance. Arguably, other than Aunt May, she's the only female in the second movie who loves Peter for being Peter.
 * Sandman in the third film is loved for being a conflicted Anti-Villain that is the source of many of the film's best scenes, his outstanding special effects, and the perfect casting of Thomas Hayden Church in the role. Even the movie's detractors consider him to be one of the better parts about it and wish that he had more focus.
 * Evil Is Cool: Played with to the point of parody or deconstruction in the third movie. Once Peter's bonded with the Venom symbiote, his moral restraint plummets, his feelings of aggression and confidence shoot through the roof and he adopts a dark, callous attitude and black leather wardrobe to match. However, since Peter is still, at heart, a lovable geek with no real idea what "cool" is, his new attitude's actually a goofily overdone caricature that draws eye-rolling disbelief from the people around him.
 * The Green Goblin in the first film is a straighter example.
 * Faux Symbolism: In the second film, MJ is cast in The Importance of Being Earnest, which is about people leading double lives. She plays the character who is unaware of the deception until the third act.
 * Also in the third, when Peter pulls off his dark suit in the church. At one point, his arms are up and out from his sides, crucifix style. Complete with the church bells ringing. And Eddie praying to kill Spider-man below. Yeah...
 * Not to mention the shower afterwards. Recognition of sin, repentance, and baptism, perhaps?
 * And Spidey sure mustn´t have noticed that big, flaming US flag when he chose to make his comeback...
 * Fight Scene Failure a.k.a. Curb Stomp Battle: High School Bully versus nascent superhero for the win!
 * Foe Yay: Spidey and the Green Goblin in the first film, though only on Gobby's end of things.
 * Fridge Brilliance: The genetically-engineered spider was created by combining the DNA responsible for the attributes of 3 species of Spider. We see a graphic that the strands overwrite the Host DNA of the species it was implanted in. Because Peter's DNA is Human, thats why the mutation only causes him to develop the abilities, and not turn into a Seth Brundel abomination.
 * Ham and Cheese: With a stupid-looking, limiting costume, the best thing Willem Dafoe could possibly do as the Green Goblin is go completely over the top.
 * Harsher in Hindsight: Very much so. Uncle Ben was Cliff Robertson's last role. Borders on Tear Jerker territory.
 * Hilarious in Hindsight: In the Hilarious Outtakes for the first movie, JK Simmons mispronounces "Spider-Man" as "Piderman".
 * The second movie features Mary Jane almost marrying J.J. Jameson's son, only to go back to Peter in the end. A few years later, we got Superman Returns, in which Lois Lane actually does marry the nephew of Perry White... and stays married to him.
 * Jerkass Woobie: Dr. Otto Octavius in the second movie.
 * Memetic Mutation:
 * Spidey and Mary Jane's sexy upside-down kiss.
 * "BONESAW IS READY!... to move on with his life."
 * Whoa... He stole that guy's PIZZAS! P1ZZ4 Guy turned out to be one of the most popular fads in YTMND history.
 * HE TOSS A GENIE!!!! from a Mondegreen belonging to the 1978 Supaida-Man Toku show in Japan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdE_Qivq92E (Sorry, previous link was broken because video had been removed by the user. Only Mondegreened version available now)
 * Image Boards love captioning screen shots of the 1960's animated Spider Man 1967 series. It helps that the dialogue was already absurd and the animation is hilariously awful.
 * "I want pictures! Pictures of Spider-Man!"
 * J. Jonah Jameson is the original image for the Aww Yea Guy.
 * Moral Event Horizon:
 * Dennis Carradine, the carjacker who killed Uncle Ben, crosses it in his last moments when after Peter seems to have backed down and is "giving him a chance" like he was begging for him to do, he attempts to shoot him point blank in the face. What an Ungrateful Bastard!
 * The Green Goblin crosses it when he attacks Aunt May in her home just to hurt Peter. His Sadistic Choice afterwards only cements his irrevocable crossing of it.
 * Venom crosses it when he
 * Narm: The third film is pretty infamous for its weird tone, but special mention goes to Peter Parker's infamous dancing.
 * Hearing Topher Grace's voice in his  form.
 * The second film had Doc Ock's artificially intelligent arms "talking" to him.
 * From the original film: "It's you who's out, Gobby! Out of your mind!"
 * The people being skeletonized by the pumpkin bombs is a little too cartoonish to be scary.
 * For some, it's Green Goblin's suit that's this. While it's understandable that the Goblin's appearance in the comics wouldn't translate well in live-action, his suit has been compared to a Power Rangers villain.
 * Older Than They Think: The plots of 1, 2 and 3 mirror Superman, Superman II and Superman III. Part 1: origin story. Part 2: "don't want to be [hero]". Part 3: Good hero and evil hero.
 * Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Mary Jane in Spider-Man 3 for a number of people, for being a more sympathetic character (provided you're not 100% on Peter's side of arguments), and actually doing something to help Peter even while being held in distress by Venom.
 * Retroactive Recognition: Emily Deschanel, Elizabeth Banks and Daniel Dae Kim all found stardom some time after their initial appearances in the series.
 * Romantic Plot Tumor: A common criticism of the movies that they devote too much time to the love story, to the detriment of action.
 * The third film receives the most criticism on this count, since some fans felt that the second film was a fine conclusion to the romance. The fact that the film had three other major plotlines competing for screentime also caused problems. On the flip side, some thought the romance was better in the third film.
 * Ron the Death Eater: MJ gets this from fans and critics of these movies, big time.
 * Ruined FOREVER: The films, like you wouldn't believe. Didn't stop them from being massive money-makers, though.
 * Sequelitis: To some, Spider-Man 3.
 * Tear Jerker:
 * Uncle Ben dying in the first movie. Always a given with Spidey's origin, but this one comes with a twist: the last thing Peter said to him was a spiteful insult, only to then later watch him die.
 * The birth of Sandman in the third movie, is such a hauntingly beautiful and sad scene that it's hard to believe it is from the same film as "Evil" Peter.
 * Visual Effects of Awesome: All the films have excellent effects but the aforementioned birth of Sandman deserves a special mention. The effects (which took six months to do and the effort shows) are so good, you can actually see the emotion in Marko's eyes while he is in sandform. From despair to heartbreaking sadness and absolute determination. Say what you will about the rest of the film, but damn that was a brilliant scene.
 * What an Idiot!: Why exactly did Peter think it would be a smart idea to plant a big wet one on Gwen Stacy right in front of Mary Jane in Spider-Man 3, in the exact same way as he first kissed Mary Jane in the first film no less?
 * What on Earth possessed Harry's butler to not tell him before Harry decided to dedicate his life to vengeance against Spider-Man?
 * There's also Mary Jane going along with Harry's blackmail instead of just telling Peter (her very powerful superhero boyfriend) about Harry's amnesia recovery, especially considering that Harry was watching from a distance at the same place at the time!
 * What the Hell, Casting Agency?: Topher Grace as Venom elicited this reaction from many.
 * Which is not too surprising since Eddie Brock is known for having a home gym, while Topher Grace is known for playing Eric Forman on That '70s Show.
 * Rumor has it that this was on purpose. Apparently the studio forced Raimi to include Venom (a fan favorite and potential Spin-Off character) even though the script didn't have him in it. Raimi was rightfully irritated by this and set out to cast someone as different from the comics as possible just for spite. To his credit, Topher Grace tried hard to work with what he was given.
 * The Woobie: Flint Marko, the Sandman. The guy just want to get his daughter cured, and he don't want to hurt anybody else in the way, but his luck just continued to suck beyond belief.
 * Harry and MJ have their Woobie moments in the same film as well.
 * Harry and MJ have their Woobie moments in the same film as well.