Red vs. Blue/Headscratchers

'Here be spoilers for Reconstruction, Recreation, Revelation, and Season 9''. '''


 * Holographic storage is a real (fringe) technology. It is quite immune to EMPs.
 * I didn't think the idea was to destroy the A Is, it was to shut them down. Besides, the A Is aren't holographic storage. They're artificial intelligences that use holographic projections to communicate.
 * Maybe emps work differently than EMPs.
 * Wrongo. Wash clearly says that the A Is are being kept in holographic storage. Their holo-projection doesn't matter. It might destroy all the surrounding circutry needed to access the data, but that can be fixed. Maybe that was Wash's intention?
 * Probably so; however the plan revolved around not destroying the stored AI but.


 * It's been focused on Church for almost the entire series at this point. I think they could do something with the fact that Grif is pretty much unkillable, despite all the effort Sarge has put into it. Let the Reds have a turn!


 * Why did Washington ask Church to go? He knew that he would be at the epicentee of the EMP. He knew that it would kill Church. Washington intentionally lead Church to die.
 * Maybe the plan was that he would jump back to his robot body before the EMP went off, but because it fell out of Caboose's jeep, he got caught in the EMP after all.
 * They were at least a few miles away at the time.
 * Or maybe Church realized what he was and went along with it. In that moment before the AIs, he probably learned what he truly was. And I suppose that's something he wanted more than anything else.
 * More than living?
 * Also, EM Ps don't necessarily destroy computers, they shut them down (like when Sarge modified the Warthog to use the EMP for more power—it didn't destroy it every time, it just shut it down for a while). So the idea was probably to shut down the A Is until they could be safely rebooted in isolation somewhere.
 * Then why does Word of God say  is my question...
 * Perhaps they're lying? It's not unheard of for creators to intentionally give out misinformation so that the fans don't actually know what's going on until the creators are ready for the big pay off where we find out what really happened.
 * Also, what was the exact words of Word of God? I mean, remember back when season five was closing and they said it was the end of Blood Gulch Chronicles to make everybody sad, but then continued the series in another way? There could be a similar loophole.
 * Ehmps might not, but electromagnetic pulses work by frying every single transistor in the circuitry. That's pretty destroyed.
 * Church and Tex show an ability that no other AI seems to be able to do; survive long term without a body. Not even Omega can survive without another body to hop into very quickly. Therefore, while other AI would be destroyed by the EMP, the Alpha likely could.
 * Could what? Please be specific.
 * Could survive the emp by outrunning it and waiting for people to arrive for him to possess.


 * Washington said Church always agreed with Delta... but there was only one case where Church agreed with him, the rest involved him openly questioning a fair number of things Delta said (namely Washington's sanity).
 * Delta was a representation of his logical side, not his intuition. Which means they would only agree in situations where they both had the same amount of knowledge. So as an example, Delta had known Wash longer than Church and as such, was able to make more informed opinions about his sanity, while Church would be relying on pure intuition.
 * That doesn't change the fact that Church only agreed with him once.
 * Church may have only agreed with Delta once, but Delta agreed with Church several times, which I always thought was just as important. Don't forget that Delta wasn't around them for very long. He didn't exactly have a lot of time to be agreed with. For the amount of time they were both present they never seemed to disagree.
 * That's why it bugs me. They agreed once on one thing, and had only a handful of conversations, most of which would not have included any reason to agree or disagree. There was not have had enough interaction for Washington to have made that assessment.
 * Washington probably just listed a bunch of attributes that Church would have, him always agreeing with Delta was one, since that's his logic. The fact they didn't spend much time together is irrelevant.
 * There's at least one instance in which Church did not agree with Delta, though indirectly. Washington killed South after Delta suggested it, but Church treated Washington as though he were crazy. That means Church did not agree with Delta's suggestion that Washington kill South. However, what's interesting is that even after that incident, Church still considered Delta to be a trusted source of information (such as asking questions about the Freelancer program while they were getting into position to take down the Meta).
 * This can be addressed by what someone said a little earlier. Church disagreed because he didn't have the information Delta did. Delta had personally witnessed South backstab people multiple times, and knew that if they brought her along it would just be a matter of time. Church had only just met South and to him it seemed like cold blooded murder.
 * Not to mention the fact that while it might have been a perfectly logical act that doesn't mean Church would agree with any logic, even his own. There is more to him than logic after all, so he could be objecting for other reasons while still agreeing it's perfectly logical (note that he never really says it wasn't necessary, just that Wash is crazy for doing it without hesitation).
 * I actually thought a better demonstration of Church being the Alpha would have been that his logical abilities impressed Delta, namely when he predicts that the Meta is running out of power. Given that Church is actually  its pretty reasonable to assume he's a genius and is therefore the only character capable of keeping up with Delta. On the other hand, agreeing with Delta is just common sense.


 * Where are Tucker and Donut?
 * You see a guy in "Light Red" armour in episode twelve while the Director is talking. Their voice actors didn't want to do it I think.
 * Well, in Reconstruction 17, Grif heard a voice calling into base respond to a Double Entendre with "Bow Chicka Wow Wow." This MEANS something!
 * Maybe their schedules couldn't handle it and are limited to cameos.
 * Donut's voice actor appears in the outtakes on the DVD, as Donut complaining that he didn't get to be in Reconstruction.
 * He also appears in a deleted scene where he's revealed to be an infiltration agent now. Apparently, he's very good at penetrating rear entrances.
 * Bow chicka wow wow!
 * He's also in the audio commentary very briefly.
 * Check out Red Vs Blue Relocated Part Four.


 * Why doesn't anyone think that Alpha is Tex? She is also a ghost and Wash said ghosts don't exist so she has to be an AI too. And he said Tex got special treatment and Church really hasn't gotten that. I don't know I just can't really shallow the idea of Church being an AI. Not Tex either as a matter of fact. Didn't they both have bodies?
 * The fact that Epsilon showed us clips of events that happened to Church after his supposed torture tells me that the A.I are still linked to him somehow, therefore Epsilon has all of Church's memories even past the split. Epsilon shared some of these memories with Washington during their time together, so that's how Wash knows that Church was the Alpha and not Tex. As for the bodies, they will probably explain that in upcoming episodes.
 * That's presuming that Epsilon doesn't simply have the ability to transfer memories. At any rate, if he's still linked to Church he's probably still linked to Wash too - hence being able to draw on Wash's memories as well.
 * All A Is are capable of giving off something based on what fragment they were. Omega, being anger, increased aggression. So Epsilon, being memory, could give off memories. The reason why Tex isn't Alpha is because then she would be too close to Command; they wanted the Alpha somewhere else. that's why they dumped him at Sidewinder. it's possible that someone at Sidewinder started getting nosy, so Command had pushed Omega to his breaking point and shipped him to Sidewinder to take out the soldiers there. The reason he didn't kill Church is because he's Alpha. Soon, Church was shipped to Blood Gulch, where no one was smart enough to know. Flowers may have known, but he stalled and died.
 * There's another explanation in a deleted scene where Wash reveals that Tex was the one who planned and carried out the attempted rescue of Alpha from command. So there's the answer. No-one thinks Tex was Alpha because she was a Freelancer at the same time that Alpha was being stored at command.
 * And everyone seems to have forgotten a key fact—when Omega was in Tex's head, there was definitely two warring personalities in there. But when Omega jumped into Church, he didn't feel different at all, because he was also an AI (and the one Omega was originally split from).
 * I reckon that Tex is based on the "someone very dear" that the Director lost.
 * Now, of course, we know that


 * Church still has "residual" memories from the original Leonard Church. However, some of these memories would have to be lacking. At least the torture would have to be missing, because that's what Epsilon had. Yet he would also need to have forgotten having been the Director, and having been copied into an AI, and all of his experiences as that AI up until the torture started. So why doesn't he notice these "blank spots"?
 * It's very likely that he only has memories up to the point of his age minus a couple years or so. Remember that the Director is an old man and most certainly didn't become Director until at least a bit older than Church believed himself to be. What really bothers me about that are the dates. Wouldn't that be a good way to prove he's an A.I.? The dates would have to be out of whack somewhere if he really has anything of the Director's memory.
 * Hmm... a thought just struck me about that. Sheila said that her on-board clock was messed up during the crash, didn't she? Perhaps all the clocks in Blood Gulch were specifically set backward so that Church wouldn't notice the discrepancy. Other people might have noticed it, but just not brought it up for various reasons - plus, not very many residents of Blood Gulch were exactly smart enough to notice something like that and consider it important.
 * The Director states he's an old man, so let's just say he's about sixty or so. Church sounds and acts like he's either late twenties or early thirties. He doesn't notice any blank spots because he lacks about thirty years of the Director's memories anyway, due to their (apparent) ages.
 * Its fairly common knowledge that the human brain will "make up" things to shove into memory gaps and be utterly convinced in its veracity unless showed overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


 * This troper enjoyed the plot twist, but something still bugs her. If Church was really the AI Alpha, then when he was sent to Blood Gulch, was he in a robot body and didn't know it? Or was he in some kind of a clone body?
 * I've always assumed he was in "Agent Florida."
 * First one, most likely. The idea of him overwriting the personality of a Freelancer and taking total control of a human body without realizing he's an A.I. is just ridiculous. That fan theory always irritated me.
 * Then that means he could've just possessed his own corpse at any time he wanted to all throughout Seasons One and Two. Which means Church would've been better off if he had listened to Caboose for once. Interesting...
 * I always thought that the robot body was critically damaged and while it wouldn't have been as bad as possessing a corpse, he wouldn't be able to do anything. Plus it's not like they had anyone who could fix stuff at that point.
 * So the birds circling above the body was just a coincidence? :p
 * First season blip, like 'where did Church and Tex's graves go?'
 * Sarge sneaked over under cover of darkness and vandalized them?
 * My theory is that, seeing as Project Freelancer presumably wouldn't want him to know that he was an AI in a robot body, they would have installed some sort of mental block to prevent him from realising the truth about his body. It's fairly unlikely, but they could have provided a very lifelike android body for him - possibly so that he could have earlier slept with Tex's equally lifelike android body, assuming those aren't implanted memories to make him seem more realistically human (they probably are) - or a robot body that can replicate some human bodily functions, e.g. emanate smells to attract the birds, or expand to mimic weight gain - which Tucker and Caboose joke about much later.
 * I always assumed that the original bodies of Church and Tex were just regular soldiers who got put into the Freelancer program not for their abilities but just to hold the Alpha AI and whatever exactly Tex is. It’s feasible. Whereas the other A Is only alter someone’s personality, Church has displayed the ability to completely overshadow someone, like what he did to Sarge when rescuing Tex. These poor shmucks actually bit the bullet when they died in season one, but the A Is were freed. Possessing the corpses wouldn’t work because they were actually dead.
 * As Burnie Burns said, if you're into Red vs. Blue for its elaborate and well maintained continuity, you're in for a bit of a surprise.
 * In Revelation, it's revealed that there are a bunch of copies of Church kept in cold storage. That must have something to do with it.
 * This question will be answered in the second episode of Season 9.


 * In Season 3, (almost) everyone is sent 2,000 (?) years into the future. So how the heck are the Red vs. Blue war and Project Freelancer still going on? Better yet, how did characters like York survive?
 * Tex and Church wonder the same thing in season 5, and Tex says something along the lines of "There's a lot of people telling us lies." The only people who really confirm that they're that far into the future are Vic (whose job it seems is to lie to the characters) and Gary (who is made of deceit). It's heavily implied that the explosion in season 3 only sent them a few years into the future - long enough for Sheila to fix up the bases and go a little screwy, not long enough for the "war" to end.
 * Also consider how, when Tex meets up with York, neither he nor Delta find anything strange about her reappearance. If they really had time-jumped 1000+ years, you'd think someone would have said "Holy crap, where have you been for the last 1000 years?"
 * Wash says that command was behind everything that has happened to the Blood Gulch teams all along, so the timeskip might have been completely fake.
 * In Chapter 4 of Recreation, when Donut mentions to the Counsellor that the reason they were at that base where they fought O'Malley was because they were sent to the future, the Counsellor is extremely confused. We then learn that Sarge's conclusion that they were several thousand years into the future was based on very shaky logic.
 * Said 'logic' was that the place they were in had an intact base and a lot of ice. After the explosion, wrecked base and no ice. Sarge takes this to mean an ice age has ended and they are now in the future. Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't heat melt ice? and, y'know, explosions blow buildings up? Sarge is a master of the Bavarian Fire Drill.
 * According to freelancer records, that is training scenario 3.


 * If Church was an AI rather than a ghost, than how was he able to talk to Sarge when he was briefly dead?
 * Sarge likely wasn't brain dead, and Church was possessing him.
 * We know AI can enter people's minds, as evidenced by Tex and Church entering Caboose's mind. Sarge was never fully dead, just knocked out, which is why CPR worked on him, so maybe Church was inside his mind like with Caboose. Caboose is a moron, and thusly his mind is scattered. Sarge is heavily devoted to the fight, so perhaps his mental layout just happens to look a lot like Blood Gulch, and has accurate depictions of those around him.
 * Either that, or, given that each AI seems to have a power, Church's AI power was enabling Sarge to view what was going on around him while passed out.
 * The powers actually come from equipment. It's just that some equipment requires an AI to use, because there are calculations involved that a human cannot possibly do, especially in the heat of battle.
 * But what about the Sheila ghost?
 * Church ascribed her as "dead" too, so he could have filled her in. Either that or she's an AI fragment linked into him.
 * Revelation reveals that the grey netherworld was actually just Sarge's mind being placed into Recovery Mode, a state where a soldier's armour is locked down and mind preserved in a virtual construct when they are severely injured. A.I.s can also enter that construct.
 * Church was a ghost at that point in the series. The AI was a Retcon. The series was not originally supposed to go past season 1, so the idea they were setting up some elaborate plotline a few seasons down the road is absurd, especially since "ghost" Church blatantly ignores almost every AI rule at one point or another, but obeys them after the retcon takes place. Any theory trying to justify him being an AI in Season 1 is g


 * When Church was sent to the past, he was still possessing the robot body Sarge built for him. How did he grow a beard?
 * How was Sarge able to give his team a pep talk while singing the Red team anthem with the Red flag appearing out of nowhere? They're just throwaway gags.
 * Especially since that beard didn't last more than one scene.
 * Short version: Rule of Funny.


 * Waaaay back, in Season 2 - have they ever explained how Tucker managed to just get better, despite the fact everyone went after O'Malley because he had been severely injured? Did they bring it up in an audio commentary?
 * No, they didn't explain it. Presumably they originally had a different plan for what to do with Tucker and then changed their minds at some point (In the Season Three commentary, they do mention that a lot of stuff was cut from the season simply because it was already so long). On screen, the most likely reason is that Tucker wasn't as badly injured as the characters thought. They aren't the smartest people after all.
 * Maybe Tex knows rudimentary first aid, and the armor took care of the rest.


 * If Church was just an AI, then how did he have a relationship with Tex? The other memories could be implanted, but Tex is right there to confirm they had a relationship. And it did sound like they had sex, so he would have to take off his armor...wouldn't he?
 * They could either be remembering the memories of Dr. Church and the girl Tex was based on, or they were given false memories as part of the doctor's experiments.
 * Well, as we now know...

"Washington: How do you ever get anything done if all you do is argue with each other? Church: We don't! That's part of our charm. Quit fucking it up!"
 * Is Washington The Scrappy? Am I the only one who dreads seeing him because I know the funny is going to stop?
 * Matter of opinion I guess. Personally I see Wash's potential for humour in the concept of him being a more or less "normal" person thrown into the Red vs. Blue world and watching how he reacts to it all. In addition, Reconstruction was going for a slightly more serious tone anyway. Also Burnie Burns said he wanted a new serious character to give Church a break from being the exposition guy.
 * Washington is awesome. He's The Comically Serious.
 * Hell, the way things are going, he might be Season Eight's Big Bad.
 * I would be all for that. I like Wash, but I think this was a instance of "break the stoic" more than anything. Wash has been pushed awful far to this point.
 * Yeah, Reconstruction could well have been the last straw for him. He risks his life over and over to bring the Director to justice and gets arrested for his efforts. Caboose does absolutely nothing and gets a shiny new base. Who wouldn't be pissed?
 * This troper likes Agent Washington, but the last episode of "Recreation" seriously ticked her off. Damnit, Wash, why'd ya have to go and shoot the Red Team, huh?!
 * I had this reaction at first, but I think he gets better over time. I got this with Tex too. I suspect it's probably because, seeing that we like our incompetent, lazy grunts from Red and Blue teams, any overly pro-active, tough, serious or macho characters need to be unfunny in order to show the absurdity of the main characters and their situations. As Church puts it in Reconstruction:


 * Though it explains where the yellow-armored Church during the time loop comes from... it just raises more questions! How exactly did Caboose's version of Sister end up being identical to Church's actual personality when he left, especially considering he hadn't had the same personality before? Why did the yellow Church suddenly jump into the time loop? And how exactly is that Church part of the loop at all? He didn't even exist until almost everything is over.
 * I always thought that Church possessed Caboose in one of his a million attempts at keeping the bomb in his body from going off. He then stuck around and played the part of Sister, Church's twin brother... for some reason. I think that theory was mentioned somewhere in the WMG section. >_>
 * Yellow Church was standing next to one of Wyoming's numerous dead bodies (possibly the last one), and the time machine was so damaged by that point that it malfunctioned. And just happened to send them both back to Sidewinder.
 * It's Caboose. Nothing makes sense to him. Nothing makes sense in his mind. It must be on hell of a coincidence.


 * In Recovery One, South claims she no longer has the ability to use her armor enhancement, the dome energy shield, because the Meta stole it. Yet in Reconstruction, she used it just fine. When did she get it back?
 * Blatant Lies? It is South, after all.
 * The lies went all the way to Command. At the end of Recovery One, we find out command predicted Washington would behave the way he did, and the whole thing was a set up. South then betrayed command once she had Delta. It was a Gambit Pileup, and it's possible the Meta never attacked South (until Reconstruction anyway).


 * You know something? This is all Simmons' fault. If he hadn't sent Donut to The Store, none of this would've happened.
 * Ah, but that's the chain of responsibility, isn't it? Is it Simmons' fault for sending Donut, or is it Donut's fault for not asking where the store was in the first place? Or Sarge's fault for leaving Simmons in charge? Or Caboose's fault for mistaking Donut for a General? Or Church's fault for putting Caboose in charge of the flag? Or... y'know what? I'm gonna go lie down...
 * There's one part that hasn't been considered: the Church that went back in time pointed Donut in the direction of the Blue Base. Who knows, if he hadn't done that, Donut could have just "wandered around the cliffs for a few hours."
 * I´m nominating Master Chief. If not for him, the Blood Gulch Crew would be in space and fighting some aliens.
 * In other words; dead.
 * Exactly.
 * Let's see... its the Flood's fault. If they hadn't attacked the Forerunners they would have built all the weapons the Covenant used to almost win the war which led to Project Freelancer being formed to find a way to win which led to them putting the soldiers in the box canyon in the first place.
 * As fun as it is to think that a small incident caused the entire events of the series, alas, it isn't true. After viewing Revelations, it's clear that command just used the flag capture as an excuse for
 * So I noticed on Halo Waypoint that they've been airing Red vs Blue episodes in fullscreen now. It looks like Season One has been re-shot using the PC version of Halo. I've also seen a couple of fullscreen clips from later seasons too. How long have these episodes been around for now? I bought the Blood Gulch Chronicles DVD boxset in 2008 and they still had those letterbox episodes. Are the fullscreen version going to be released on DVD anytime soon?
 * Yes, you can pre-order them on best buy here it comes out June 29, 2010


 * Here's a few for Revelations: What was the point of bringing Doc in if Donut was dead? And why did they have to have Donut killed anyway? (And don't say no one likes him, I still think his death was incredibly cheap.) Also, did they change Epsilon-Church's voice? I noted that it doesn't sound like Church's voice, and maybe it wouldn't bug me so much if the other characters would just comment on it... I know the new season is just beginning, and they might resolve things in their own way, but having to wait for it is just annoying...
 * In the matter of Doc being called in, it'll be answered in the next episode. Killing off Donut, I don't know, I liked him. Some people have been saying Dan Godwin didn't want to do it anymore, or maybe they wanted someone Killed Off for Real to emphasize this season being Darker and Edgier. Hell, maybe this is all designed to mislead us and they do still plan to bring him back somehow. The aliens brought Captain Flowers back after all. As for Epsilon's voice, it sounds the same to me. It's still Burnie Burns voicing him. They use a different filter because he's inside a monitor instead of a suit of armour.
 * Whoever is voicing Donut can't/doesn't want to do it anymore, and I guess the writers decided Killed Off for Real is better than permanently Put on a Bus.
 * The sponsor version of Episode 13 has
 * As for Epsilon-Church's voice being different, he isn't getting the "mic" filter put over Burnie's voice because he isn't in a Spartan body. Instead, they've put a sort of synth over it, to mimic the Monitor's voices.


 * I just realized something. Why is Church, the Alpha, permanently a dick/angry all the time? His backstory is that he was tortured, so he went insane and cast away his personalities, which formed different individuals on their own. Except, one of those personalities is Omega, the Alpha's anger. If Church's anger was separated from him, why has it become his defining characteristic? He should be a generic everyman if his personality was stripped from him, not a hothead.
 * In the commentary of Reconstruction, Burnie acknowledged the contradiction and joked that Alpha just had such a filthy temper that even losing Omega didn't make a big difference. His other, more serious explanation is that with Omega gone, Alpha still gets angry, but now without reason. Such as hating the Freelancer program even though he (as far as he knows) has no reason to do so.
 * There is also a theory floating around that the Alpha is trying to compensate for its missing parts.
 * Bow Chika Bow Wow.
 * Because it's a split personality. From what I understand, when someone manifests a Split Personality, where a new personality is created, often representing a specific aspect of the person, they don't lose the ability to feel that way outright. Just because Omega represented Alpha's rage and was separated doesn't mean he loses that emotion completely. He just tried to dissociate himself from a large bulk of his rage in order to "protect" his psyche. Just like when he lost the memories from Epsilon doesn't mean he loses the ability to remember. At least that's the best justification I can think of.
 * That's what I was thinking. Church still has anger (Omega), logic (Delta), the ability to lie (Gamma), creativity (Sigma), the ability to remember (Epsilon), etc., but they're cut down from his original ones, turning him into a relatively ineffectual, not all that brilliant guy who's a terrible shot. Presumably, with all of his faculties intact, he'd be at least at Freelancer level.
 * Depends. At full capacity, he's a "Smart AI", essentially making him like Cortana.


 * Am I the only one who thinks it's kind of unfitting to describe Omega as Alpha's rage? It just doesn't seem like anger was O'Malley's main character trait. Granted, you could argue that most of the time we saw him, he was inside Doc and thus possibly being calmed down a little by Doc's pacifist nature, but considering O'Malley was always going on about being an evil-doer and wanting to take over the universe, wouldn't it be more fitting to say that Omega was Alpha's evil side, or lust for power?
 * We're talking about the same people who thought they were 2000 years in the future because they ended up in a place without ice and who believe pumas are mythological creatures. Brilliance is not their overriding personality trait; ignoring the obvious in favor of complicated theories is.


 * It kinda bugs me that the Blues are such a Character-Magnetic Team while the Reds are... not. Seriously, the Reds haven't had a permenant new member since Donut. Apart from briefly having Doc as a prisoner and then Sister who was never technically part of the team anyway, it's always been the same guys. Meanwhile the Blues got Caboose, Tex, Doc briefly, Andy, the alien, Doc again, Junior, Sister and Epsilon. I know the plot usually revolves more around the Blues but still...
 * Lampshaded in Revelations, as Simmons asks "Hey, ever notice how the Blues have a lot more going on than us?"
 * This is probably because of teams individual members. Specifically, Church and Tex. When the serious angle comes into play, they're the best characters to center it around, because it fits them.


 * If Gary is actually a Freelancer AI, how did he exist 1,000 years before Project Freelancer even started?
 * Same way the Alpha got there. Time Travel.
 * How/why did he do this?
 * To trick Church after the plan to use Lopez's weather control device to take over the universe failed, so they could get him to eventually save Tucker so he could give birth to Junior so O'Malley could kidnap him to use him to win the war and gain power. Why did O'Malley create such a crazy Gambit Roulette? Because he's evil and insane enough to think that a Weather Control Device could help him to take over the universe to begin with.
 * It was all a lie. Gary is the AI of deceit.


 * Why didn't Washington show up when Tex died?
 * Firstly, we can't be entirely sure she is dead. Wash himself said he wasn't sure if she was alive or not. Secondly, with all the theories that she's an A.I, it's possible that she doesn't have a recovery beacon on account of the fact that she can't be killed in the conventional way. Finally, it's possible that Wash wasn't on active duty at the time. He had been shot in the back by South, I imagine that he would have needed some time to recover and wasn't available to be sent in until the Meta had already left Valhalla.
 * While the first part of that might be true, you have to remember that Tex being "killed" took place months before Washington got shot in the back, as Tex was killed at the end of season one and Wash getting shot in the back was somewhere in between the end of season 4 and the beginning of season 6.
 * Blood Gulch is infamous for its bad radio signals and messed up communication. If Tex did send out an Recovery Beacon when she 'died', its possible that it was either lost in nowhere (like what almost happened to Omega before he snatched Doc) or interrupted by Vic.


 * What bugs me is Tex, the only character in Red vs. Blue that I can't stand at all. She is the least funny, compelling, and interesting character in the entire series. She's a stereotypical tough girl character to act as a foil for the goofy incompetence of the rest of the cast, filling a role that, to be frank, never needed to be filled. There's basically nothing original about her, but she keeps coming back even after getting killed in Episode 100.
 * YMMV, but she has fans and plays a huge role in the story, hence why she keeps coming back.
 * Your Mileage May Also Vary as to how much focus she gets. After getting blown up at the end of Blood Gulch Chronicles, she didn't have another speaking role until Revelation, 3 years later.


 * I just watched the newest episode, and while I'm glad that both Church and Tex are back, something still bugs me. Who were the Church and Tex we saw in the trailer for Recreation? I get that this Church we see now is Epsilon in a new body, but... what about the other two? And the other ex, for that matter?
 * My guess is that the Church and Tex we saw in the trailer are the real ones. This new Tex is some kind of copy I bet. Or maybe she's the end result of some kind of splitting thing, like what happened to Alpha. For example the Tex in the trailer could be the calm, quiet side, while the new one is Tex's aggression. My bet is ultimately Alpha and original Tex are gonna show up and somehow fuse with Epsilon and the new Tex, fulling restoring the two characters.
 * The fact that Tex gave Tucker the same merciless beating she gave the Reds supports the "not real Tex" theory.
 * Why? Tex beat Tucker up before.
 * Plus, you know... Tucker did throw that grenade at her. I think... what was that thing? I don't remember it exploding ~_^. Oh, and he called her "Sweet Cheeks".
 * It was Donut who threw that grenade, not Tucker.
 * Okay, but now something new is bothering me: Word of God states that
 * Thanks, that that helps me feel a little better...
 * Thanks, that that helps me feel a little better...


 * It doesn't bug me that much, but I kept thinking that at Tucker, Grif and Simmons have bribed Tex in the past, so they should be able to again, right?
 * In Chapter 13, she refers to Tucker as "that guy with the sword" rather than by name, hinting that she doesn't have any memory of him.
 * Although in later chapters she clearly remembers their past encounters.
 * "Eh, I barely remember your names most of the time anyway."


 * Donut dies from one bullet. Washington blows up and survives. Consistency? What's that?
 * First of all, Wash may still have York's healing unit. Secondly, Simmons once said that the armour they all wear is designed to absorb explosions. Granted, he also said it deflects bullets, but I imagine Wash knows all the weak points of the armour and therefore, where best to aim. Also, being a freelancer, I wouldn't be surprised if Wash's armour and pistol are both more advanced than the simulation troopers.
 * The only one who confirms Donut is dead is Doc, and his lack of medical knowledge is a running gag.


 * I guess it's only a small thing, but I noticed an inconsistency in chapter ten of Revelation. Near the start, Tucker appears holding his battle rifle and his deactivated sword is attached to his hip. Fair enough. But then when he confronts Tex with his sword drawn, his rifle is nowhere to be seen and he now has a pistol on his hip. Shouldn't his rifle be on his back? Why did they change his weapon set?
 * Maybe Tucker needed to get rid of the extra weight to move around better.
 * When he used his sword it was a Monty Oum animated sequence, not the normal machinima. Monty might have left it out on purpose to make it easier to animate, or he just goofed and forgot it.


 * How can an A.I. have an A.I.? Especially in the case of Tex and Omega, but also when Omega went into Church for a brief moment.
 * One word: nesting. You can have one program inside another (Windows can run Word, for instance). To answer your question in a different way, the A.I.s are based on human minds, so how is it any different than a normal human like Caboose using an A.I.? Also, it turned out Omega was part of Church anyway.
 * The Freelancers were all about experimenting with AI. When they ended up with the Tex AI as a side effect of creating the Alpha, they probably figured "Hey, why not stick two AI together and see what happens?" Because Tex was the more "complete" AI, instead of just a fragment (technically, yes, she's a part of Alpha's memories, but I don't think she was created when they split up Alpha, I think she manifested before that somehow), she ended up being the one in control.
 * She was created beforehand. When the Director's (presumably) flash cloned brain was... AI-ified, Tex was spawned alongside the Alpha.


 * Putting in the sponsor only version of chapter 13 bugs me. While I'm thrilled at the idea of, the fact that it's a scene that not everyone will see raises questions. Does this actually count as official canon? Is it like that extended episode of Reconstruction where Doc made a brief appearance? And considering no mention of it has been made in Chapter 14, it just leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions.
 * I haven't actually seen the ending myself, but I heard that it might have been and not
 * I don't know where that theory comes from, it's
 * It's been confirmed that the scene is canon.
 * Highly unlikely. Burnie wrote that the scene will not make it on the DVD, as it is not important to the plot.
 * So to sum up... but only sponsors will ever know, or  and sponsors get a misleading scene to make them think otherwise?
 * Yep. Its Burdingers Spartan.
 * The scene basically exists to justify any future instance of


 * How is "Du-frain" difficult to pronounce? If you saw the name "Dufresne" written down and weren't sure how to say it, that'd be one thing, but just hearing someone say "My name is Dufresne" and claiming that you can't pronounce it? It's two simple syllables, Church. You're not retarded Caboose.
 * It's Red vs. Blue. Everyone is an idiot, even if they're intelligent enough to recognize it.
 * Actually I just think Church was being lazy and didn't care about the guys name anyway. It's Doc, nobody likes him.


 * Related to the above comment about Tex, what makes Tex such a Badass anyways? I know in the latest episode she fights Wash and the Meta at the same time, but up until then she was only fighting the Red and Blue teams, none of whom are known for combat skill, tactical expertise or even basic competence.
 * Monty Oum makes everything badass.
 * She dodged a heat-seeking rocket, lifted a shipping crate over her head, and broke through a 6 inch thick metal wall with her bare hands. If that's not badass, then nothing is.
 * The sheer coordination necessary to beat them up in such a stylish way is badass. Besides, as incompetant a leader as he is, Sarge is a pretty good fighter, and Tucker has obviously taken several levels in badass.
 * Being a badass is pretty much a prerequisite for anyone in Project Freelancer, as seen in Season 9.


 * Forgive me if the answer to this is entirely obvious, because it's been a while since Reconstruction. South uses Delta to power her shield, right? So how was she able to use the shield before using Delta, considering that she doesn't have an AI?
 * Going by how Grif is able to use powerups without an AI, it seems that even simulation soldier suits can use powerups, AIs only help manage the calculations required to run them. And how could an AI produce energy anyway, wouldn't they just drain more?
 * Indeed. Some powerups, such as South's shield and Tex's cloak are just "on/off". Others, such as Wyoming's time control, need an AI to run. One wonders why Meta, though it could have been a mild case of Obfuscating Stupidity on his part until he could get his hands on an AI.
 * That's because while the cloaking device is relatively simple to run, Meta still had all his other armour enhancements as well, which were draining power from his suit. He needed an A.I to calculate the power requirements. Another possibility is that the cloak is difficult to use, but Tex was capable of using it without Omega because she was an A.I herself.


 * Why does Gary have the time distortion and manipulation powers both as a monitor and as a tank when every other Freelancer has their established powerup with them instead of their AI?
 * It's been stated that the A.I are capable of running the armour abilities. It's possible that, when he was a monitor, Wyoming left his time manipulation unit with Gary so he could use it. However when Gary is operating the tank, I'm betting that Wyoming was the one using the armour ability. After all, his helmet was taken by Tex onto the ship, where the Meta retrieved it. If it had still been in the tank, the Meta wouldn't have been able to get to it.
 * It's also possible that Gamma simply transmitted the calculations and data to Wyoming to facilitate its use.


 * The above question reminds me of something I'd been thinking about. In Season Five, Caboose suggests transferring Sheila's AI into his armour the way Omega had. Church tells him that it wouldn't work because she's not that kind of A.I. However later, Gamma, the same kind of AI as Omega, is able to take over the tank.
 * It's possible that Gamma is backwards-compatible. Kind of like how you can play PS1 games on a PS2, but not the other way around. Gamma is sufficiently advanced enough to fit inside the tank and take it over.
 * Also, they needed a massive cable to transfer Sheila to the ship, because shes hardwired into the Tank. it could just be that they lack the equipment to transfer, or that her functions are too specialized to work in a humanoid form.


 * The only ones stationed at Valhalla were the Reds and Caboose. How do they explain how Tucker and a guy in Church's armor are suddenly there?
 * I think the command doesn't really seem to pay much attention to the Red and Blue simulations. After all, no-one at command seemed to raise an eyebrow when Simmons deleted the Blues from the database and they sent no reinforcements to Valhalla even when it was five Reds to one Blue.
 * The fact that the Blues were deleted from the records is probably what allowed the oversight. The data on the Blues was retrieved from the off-site backups by FILSS/Sheila and therefore would have had information on Tucker and Church.
 * Besides, the ones who showed up to take care of things didn't seem to actually be Freelancers. If the Director really is being tried for breaching protocol, it would make sense that some other branch of the UNSC is in charge of cleaning up after the Freelancers. Therefore, it's unlikely they'd actually know much more than "there's some red guys and some blue guys".


 * If Project Freelancer got shut down, why are the Freelancer training bases still in operation?
 * Project Freelancer was only one faction of the UNSC. Once it was shut down, the UNSC seized their training grounds and allowed the Reds and Blues to continue their training.


 * So where did Wash get the cobalt armour from? I'm guessing he took it from Epsilon's robot body, but how come he still has the yellow trim? Even if he took the shoulder pads from his old suit (which he didn't, as we see his old suit on the ground, still bearing the yellow trim), where'd the yellow stripe on the helmet come from? Did the group just happen to have a can of yellow spray paint with them?
 * Yes. Sarge is that kind of Crazy Prepared. Seriously though, Burnie mentioned how this was for the benefit of the audience, to make clear that it really is Washington we are seeing.
 * Well, they were still near that Freelancer base. Could've still been some supplies (including armor or at least armor parts) lying around in some back room somewhere.
 * Or they could've just painted the armor, something which the Blue Team did previously with Lopez and Simmons himself did (with the exact same results of "missing a few spots").


 * Two things about Church:
 * Does no one care that the real Church, for all intents and purposes, is basically dead? Sure, Caboose's perception of reality has probably blurred the line between Alpha and Epsilon, and Sarge, up until recently, didn't care about the Blues. But shouldn't Tucker at least be sad? This goes for You can't say that they don't care about each other enough, because Church was sad when Tex "died," and Simmons was visibly distressed when Grif appeared to have died.
 * This may be more due to the specific relationships in question. Simmons and Grif are Hetero Life Partners and (in the words of Tucker) bicker like an old married couple. Having seen Caboose's mind, it's very possible he doesn't exactly understand that Church!Alpha is dead. Also, I tried counting the number of times Caboose himself killed Church but lost count. Tucker not only wasn't concerned when Church died the first time back in Season 1, but he'd seen Church come back from the dead multiple times previously. Church and Tex, however, have a romantic history. Thus no one cares when Church!Alpha dies because they're on the other team, don't understand, or don't care/expect him to come back.  was the butt-monkey of the Red Team, and . Also, Sarge becomes very professional once he figures out Simmons's message and therefore was more concerned with the mission than fallen team members (something he doesn't seem to worry much about anyway considering his plan to get Andy the Bomb into O'Malley's compound in Season 3). Grif has already shown that he outright does not believe someone is dead until he sees the body personally, so it's not surprising he's not broken up about . Therefore, the only people who would be upset at the death of a teammate is Church with Tex, Simmons with Grif, and Caboose with Sheila.
 * This is point is hidden because thinking about it kind of cheapened the Revelations Finale, and I don't want to inadvertently cheapen it for someone else.
 * I think when they say that Epsilon has all of Alpha's memories, they really do mean ALL of them, including the Blood Gulch memories. If you're wondering how Epsilon got Alpha-Church's memories, remember that in Reconstruction when Church got close to the Epsilon unit he started getting painful flashes of memory, this may have been the two of them wirelessly interfacing with each other.
 * I'm not saying that he doesn't have those memories. And I'm not saying that it's not emotional for him. I'm just saying that it feels less emotional for me, the viewer. But that's just my personal opinion.
 * I always just assumed that
 * Alternatively, the memories are intricately tied into the emotions associated with them. Note that Epsilon-Church refers to Tex as "my girlfriend" he acknowledges that he isn't Alpha, but he seems to believe that he is Church.
 * Personally, I'm all for the  theory myself...
 * seems to make the most sense to me, since he thought Tucker was Captain Flowers due to his armor color. Caboose arrived at Blood Gulch long after Captain Flowers died, and if anyone ever told Caboose that Tucker's armor was originally his, I doubt Caboose would have remembered it long enough to relay the information to
 * Yeah, I'm going to go with the merging theory. It makes sense in a lot of ways. And the stuff he says at the end (about Epsilon and Alpha) makes it seem that he's not the Alpha, he's not Epsilon, he's just... Church, with some extra memories thrown in.


 * In Revelation Chapter 10, why does Tex keep crushing Grif's nuts over and over again? Wouldn't it be more appropriate for her to be hitting Tucker in the nuts, what with his constant "bow-chicka-wow-wow!" jokes and general chauvinism?
 * Two theories: either Sarge paid her off to hurt Grif, or she secretly actually likes Tucker, despite him being annoying. Oh, and one more: she doesn't want to risk hurting the sword, which she still wants to get her hands on.
 * Grif is the easiest target of the group, and thus she can afford a Self-Imposed Challenge for beating him up.
 * Fridge Brilliance: Sarge is always calling Grif 'Numb Nuts'. Also, she crushes his nuts seven times. Number seven seems to be pretty important in the Halo canon.
 * The people who make Red vs. Blue, Rooster Teeth, have specifically said that she does this to Grif because she somehow found out about him punting Epsilon-Church in an earlier episode.
 * Aw, Look -- They Really Do Love Each Other!
 * From a writing perspective, everyone else in the fight had something to do, so Grif at least needed a running gag. Tucker has his sword, Caboose is pushing buttons, Sarge is trying to stand up to Tex, Simmons is trying to obey Sarge's plan. None of these would be in-character for Grif, and with everyone else having a purpose to write jokes around, Grif got stuck being the Butt Monkiest.


 * I might end up wording this badly, so bare with me, but Epsilon Church really never seemed to know about Alpha Church. In the finale, he said that originally, everything was based on the Alpha, but in the memory unit, he is the Alpha. Wasn't the Church from Blood Gulch Chronicles the Alpha already?
 * It could be a dual meaning - in there, he is the Alpha as in, "the most important person," or he's the Alpha because "Epsilon gets to live through Alpha's memories," or even that "Epsilon became Alpha through copying Alpha's memories and entire being," or tons of other dual meanings. I doubt it was to be taken literally.


 * How do the people at "Command" sleep at night? They create simulation environments for "Red" and "Blue" squad members to fight each other for training purposes... but said "Reds" and "Blues" actually try and hurt/kill each other! (They use live ammunition, Tex nearly kills Donut with a grenade, Sarge was able to call in a massive airstrike, etc) Since when did "training" involve actually loss of life and/or life-threatening injuries?
 * Not everyone has a conscience, friend.
 * Plus, they didn't seem to be too bothered. How many times have Grif and Tucker been blown up / beaten / shot?
 * Humans Are the Real Monsters. Especially bureaucrats.
 * The Director also had absolutely no problem whatsoever with torturing to the point of insanity an AI based on his own mind—and while he may not have treated as badly, he certainly didn't treat the AI  based on his lost love with too much care or respect either. Why should he care any more for the humans under his command?
 * Yeah, but not everyone at "Command" knew about Alpha being tortured. The Director and the Chairman knew, and probably the engineers involved knew, but the Freelancer agents certainly didn't know. It seemed like a pretty classified thing. I guess it just bugs me that the freelancers (especially the non-evil ones like Wash and York) could go into an RVB base and start blowing guys up as part of their "training."
 * Well actually it goes a bit further, in this Troper's opinion the Director is legitimately insane, losing Allison was so devastating to him that he has completely detached from reality.
 * The Armor Lockdown shown in Season 8 as an explanation for the "afterlife" Sarge saw when he was nearly killed in Season 2 mean that even though they're using live ammo, they aren't in any real danger. Also, the simulation soldiers were specifically chosen because they wouldn't be missed by the regular army.


 * I have 3 questions: 1. After putting aside his hatred of the Blues, gaining respect for Grif as a soldier, and harboring a massive resentment to command over manipulating them for so many years, after he dedicated his life to them.... why does he just go back to old Sarge after the finale? He goes back to not caring for Grif's life, seems perfectly fine with going back to fight against the Blues in their base, and all progress just seems to have been wiped out. 2. Simmons personally saw Washington execute Donut. Why is he so amiable and friendly towards him, treating him like he would any other blue? 3. Church tells Caboose to remember him because Tucker "will just fuck it up." I'm sorry, what? Caboose is the one with the good memory? I know this isn't the actual Church from the BGC, but still... Caboose? Has he not realized he is a ditz?
 * I don't have anything for the first two, but it seems like Epsilon Church has a much more brotherly relationship with Caboose since he's spent more time with him, as opposed to Alpha Church who spent more time with Tucker before Caboose showed up.
 * I think I have one for the first one and maybe the second. In the first case I think Sarge was just messing with Grif when he suggested they just leave him there, and he never said he planed to fight the Blues when the returned to Valhalla. As for the second, Wash just helped save their lives. That might help with the whole " Killing Donut thing".
 * As an above poster said, Sarge was just messing around with Grif. And when the Reds were talking about the Blues in the finale, it seemed to just be them reminiscing. And Sarge still hates Command. For the third question, I think that Church was just trying to make Caboose feel better. Plus, by "fuck it up," he probably means intentionally. He knows that Caboose will do his best to remember, and his best is good enough for Church, even if he lives on in Caboose's memory as an annoying prick. He's probably more afraid that Tucker will intentionally screw around with Church's legacy just to fuck with him.
 * So Sarge knew that Grif was going to call close enough to the wall to stick in the Brute shot? I doubt that. And I don't buy that the whole kill Donut thing might to so unaddressed. Alliances made because of a common enemy don't typically last after the common enemy is defeated. At the very least, the issue would be addressed, I think. I'll accept the Epsilon Church explanation though.
 * (1) That Sarge gained respect for Grif seems to be the result of fans applying the friendship equivalent of Shipping Goggles in Revelation. He doesn't insult and threaten Grif as often. He relies on Grif a couple of times when he has no real alternative. As for going back to fighting the Blues, his speech did also hint at the fact that everyone liked their situation. (2) Most of the stuff with Wash is up in the air; we saw very little of their interactions after the fight. He might be a Karma Houdini, or he might not. (3) Remembering Church wasn't important in a practical sense; the stuff about memory keeping you alive was generally meant metaphorically when people referred to it. (The AI project obviously gave it a double meaning because they were based on minds and, sometimes, memories.) It was just a Friendship Moment done for Caboose's benefit. Epsilon knew he might be gone forever, so he gave Caboose a job that would make Caboose think that he was doing something vital for his best friend.
 * Maybe Sarge didn't want to see Grif's dead body just after he finally did something.


 * This is less about the character, but why is it that everybody on this site is treating Wash as some kind of Karma Houdini? Granted, he's not exactly the pinnacle of moral standing, but he's not evil! All he did was shoot Lopez, whom he knew was a robot, and therefore could survive. He shot Dount, but Donut's still alive, and there's no way Wash did that by accident, knowing his skill level. And he lets Doc live for no practical reason seeing as he's an incompetent medic and useless as a hostage! He's a Type III at worst!
 * Hell, Donut took out Tex. If anything, based off of whatever information Wash might have on him, killing Donut probably was the smart thing to do.
 * Not to mention that Washington's only after them because they didn't follow his order to turn Epsilon over to the Chairman which lead to Washington going to jail. Washington's pretty justifiably pissed at the Blood Gulch soldiers.
 * Plus, Wash might've known that


 * Is it even possible to understand Recollections without watching the miniseries'?
 * Nope, and since the Recollections DVD features Recovery One, that's not a problem.
 * Actually, yes. It is perfectly understandable without having seen the various miniseries, although they do add quite a bit of backstory and are definitely worth watching.
 * I don't understand how this can bug anyone. Surely, as a fan of Red vs. Blue you'd want to watch more of it and not skip bits?


 * Is it ever explained exactly why the sight of Washington was enough to make Epsilon angry enough to activate his laser eye? What did Wash do to him? I thought it might be a hint of something that happened between them back when Epsilon was Wash's A.I but we never learn anything. Even if Epsilon was recalling Alpha's memories, the last time we saw Alpha and Wash together, they were working with each other.
 * Washington was rounding up all the AI fragments and taking them back to Freelancer HQ. Epsilon contains the memories of all of the fragments, or at least their base personalities and major memories. Epsilon can't explain what made him so pissed, it must have been the other memories.
 * Immediately after, Epsilon says he wants to go back, he's pretty frantic about it, so it's possible anger isn't actually what sets Epsilon off, just extremely strong emotions. And... come on, seeing his old partner (even if he doesn't remember it) would bring back some pretty nasty memories anyway (as he was paired with Wash immediately after he was split off from the Alpha), even if he didn't consciously realize it.
 * Church!Epsilon hasn't regained all his memories by this point and is acting irrationally because they are starting to return slowly and cryptically (including memories the Epsilon AI hadn't experienced). Also, the only two encounters Epsilon and Washington have had at this point (Wash's original implantation and pulling him out of storage) ended with Epsilon trapped in a recovery unit but aware of the outside world.


 * How does Wash understand what the Meta is saying?
 * Probably a translator module built into his armour. Master Chief can understand what the Covenant are saying, after all.
 * Alternately, just because he's been around him so long. Judging by the Season 9 trailer, they were friends (or at least close colleagues) before the A Is drove Meta nuts.


 * Every Freelancer is given a codename (a state) and a A.I named after a letter in the greek alphabet. Each Freelancer has one A.I. There are 49 states and 24 letters in the old greek alphabet. How is this possible?
 * Maybe they started using letters form different alphabets?
 * They stopped assigning A Is after Wash, remember? Presumably, if they had continued and used up all the letters, they would have done what the second poster said.
 * In the commentary for Reconstruction, Burnie mentioned that there were less A.I than Freelancers. Some A.I simply didn't survive the fragmentation process, others were kept in storage for experimentation and weren't given greek letters for names.
 * ...49 states?
 * Poor, poor Florida...
 * Epsilon's name. Alpha is the first, which makes sense. Omega and Gamma were presumably some of the first splits, as they were the ones who tortured Alpha to split his personality more. This also makes sense. We can assume that Omega was made first, and the program named him as such to contrast with Alpha. Then they probably made Beta, then Gamma, going with the Greek letters' order. From there, Omega and Gamma started their handiwork. So, things are making sense...until Epsilon. If Epsilon was the last AI, why was it given the fifth letter?
 * Maybe he was the fifth one Project Freelancer could actually use. Wash mentioned that there where rejects and bad versions. Command couldn't figure out which where which at first and only gave the "good ones" the greek letter names.
 * As stated above, some of the AI never received Greek callsigns. It may be that Omega was chosen for field use last, even though he was split from Alpha first.
 * We don't know that Epsilon was the last AI to be created. Yes, they stopped their work with the AI implantation after Epsilon went nuts, but we don't know how long it was after Wash was implanted that Epsilon self-destructed or how many other AI were created/implanted in the mean time.
 * Wash specifically states that the memories were the last ting that Alpha cast off.
 * Okay I have to ask. Has Word of God actually confirmed whether or not the trailer for Recreation is in continuity or not? I've heard some people assume it isn't, but I haven't heard an official statement yet. There's nothing in the trailer to imply that it's fake, especially considering how Reconstruction's trailer wasn't. There's also the fact that certain events, like the fire at Blue Base or Grif teasing Simmons about subtracting one from five are referenced later on in the actual season. But at the same time, there's been no word on whether or not those were the real Church and Tex we saw and whether or not they'll be returning at any point.
 * Word of God (Burnie Burns, I think) has confirmed that the scene with Tex and Church in the trailer is a non-canon 'hook' to get people to watch. Trailers Always Lie.
 * Why didn't they use Caboose for any of the fight scenes in Revelation? Had he gone mano-a-mano with Tex, it would have made for a pretty awesome and action packed fight. Now, I know how that sounds, but just think about it for a minute: First of all, Caboose has been shown to be physically stronger than Tex when he had to carry Andy into O'Malley's fortress (and considering some of the feats of strength Tex demonstrated throughout Revelation, that's saying quite a lot). What's more, despite his sheer and utter stupidity, Caboose has also demonstrated mad skills with just about any firearm he's ever used (i.e. sniping Sarge in the head, defeating all the Reds and Blues at Battle Creek, gunning down a fleeing South Dakota at range, etc.). All things considered, his only real flaw is that he only manages to fight well against people that he's trying to "help," but that had already been easily worked around by his teammates ordering him to "help" the enemy. All they would have had to do was say "Caboose! Go help Tex!" and he would have gone "Okay!" and *POOF*, instant awesome battle!
 * I understand that Caboose hasn't been in a CGI part yet due to rules Roosterteeth made for each character. But why is Caboose in particular the one they chose to have that restriction?
 * I figure it's because Caboose's humor lies more in his stupidity than his incompetence in battle. The more I think about it, CGI Caboose getting beat up by Tex or helping the others fight off the Meta just seems kind of strange in my mind.
 * Also pretty cruel, since he's basically a child. I didn't like that sequence at all, actually. Why didn't they just shoot her or run to a more defensible position? How is that a worse option than hanging around and letting Tex beat the shit out of them? (Was it really Tex? She hated the Blood Gulch crew, but she didn't attack them for no reason. Except when they're asleep, of course.)
 * They did try to shoot her. Repeatedly. But she was fast enough to dodge, get close up and disarm them before they could get any shots in. They didn't run because A: they were unfamiliar with their surroundings so they didn't know if there was a more defensible position nearby, B: she would have followed them and I really doubt any of them would be able to outrun her and C: they were panicking. Most of them were barely even trained as soldiers and they were up against Project Freelancer's ultimate killing machine. I'd have panicked too. As for whether or not it was the real Tex we were seeing, we'll have to wait and see. Rooster Teeth is being awfully coy about who this Tex is.
 * Agreed on the reasoning behind Caboose not being in CGI because him getting beat up would just be cruel. It would be like shooting a puppy!
 * Yes, I totally agree that having Caboose fight would be cruel but they've also used CGI for gags, like Grif kicking Epsilon and Doc being stuck in the wall.
 * It was mentioned in the commentary that they had planned for some animated gags with Caboose (such as his helmet getting turned around so he couldn't see), but they never got around to doing them and by the time they got to the Tex fight, they stopped using the animation for gags and they agreed that it just didn't feel right to have Caboose animated.


 * I have two questions:
 * In Season 3, when Church and Grif are in jail on Sidewinder, and Wyoming walks up to them, he is using invisibility. Invisibility was not his ability, it was Tex's. How did he get invisibility, and if he had it, why did he never again use it?
 * The show is set in the Halo universe, where there is more than one cloaking device. I'm guessing Tex's cloak is more effective than the regular kind. She can attack people without turning visible and stuff. Wyomming was presumably using the an ordinary cloak like the ones you get in the game and I guess he just never felt the need to use it again. Although he may have. He did sneak up on the Blues when they were at Red base.
 * This one is very minor, but after Grif crashes the Pelican into the canyon in Revelations, Wash tells Tucker and Caboose to go collect stuff for him. He mentions Tucker by name, but as far as I can remember, Wash has never met Tucker. How did he know his name?
 * Multiple ways. First, all the Reds' and Blues' profiles were on file; Wash could have come across Tucker in the databases. Second, Tucker found out about how the conflict between Reds and Blues was a lie, and Wyoming was sent after him; presumably, more than one Freelancer was told about the situation. Third, the Blood Gulch gang could have told Wash about him. Fourth, Tucker was working as an ambassador to the aliens, so he could presumably have celebrity status. Fifth, he has an alien child, which isn't exactly commonplace, and is probably widely talked about. Sixth, Wash could've been briefed on the entire Blood Gulch gang when he was sent after them.
 * It's definitely the sixth one since Wash was looking specifically for the Blues. It would make sense for them to actually brief him on who he was looking for and by extension which Blue not to look for.


 * Why is it when Tex and Church arrive at the frozen base, Tex takes one look inside, talks a little about Alpha and then immediately leaves, saying the Director is the only who can answer her questions now. Was there a scene in the sponsored version where she looks around the base and finds nothing there or something? Because it feels awfully abrupt. Why go all the way to that base if you're just going to leave again.
 * The base was an old Freelancer place. She went there to get munitions to fight Wash and the Meta when they arrived.
 * I assumed she saw that the place was abandoned and that everything was shut down/wiped, so she instead switched to luring Wash/the Meta there so they could take her to the Director instead.

Or in short, I'd say it's part of the Running Gag that nobody ever takes Wash entirely seriously.
 * The entire "Revelation" in season 8 that OMFG the Red vs Blue battles are a lie! We already knew that, Wash told us all about in Reconstruction, so why did everyone act like they had no idea?
 * Probably because the way Wash said it in Reconstruction (arguing about why they should let him order them around), they probably thought he was either making something up to be a jerk to them, or otherwise wrong. (Heck, Sarge even scoffs, "You're making that up!") It wasn't until Revelation that they had concrete info other than just taking Wash's word for it, so that they realized yeah, he'd been absolutely right, and they just couldn't deny it anymore.
 * Also, Sarge seems to be the only one that cares. The Blues are busy with the actual plot, while Simmons is just more annoyed he was considered expendable and Grif…well, caring would require putting forth effort.


 * If Grif and Sister are from Hawaii, then where the hell did they go ice skating where Sister could have been stuck underwater for three hours?
 * Just because they lived in Hawaii doesn't mean they never left the place, ever.
 * 500 years into the future, a lot can change. For all we know, Hawaii is cold in the future.
 * They have these things called refrigerated ice skating rinks, you know…
 * But those are not put over lakes. It's just ground under a layer of ice.


 * In Out Of Mind, Tex and York talk about York's eye injury and they all agree it's Omega's fault. But the Season 9 trailer implies that York lost his eye before they began implanting A Is in people, possibly before Tex even became a Freelancer. How is that supposed to work?!
 * We don't know that it took place before any implantations, just before Wash's and probably York's and Maine's. Previous references indicated that the process was done in groups, so not all of the Freelancers got their AIs at the same time. Wash's reference to them implies that that part of the program was in its early stages, so presumably Tex was an early attempt.
 * Could also be a red herring; for all we know, York's eye will get injured again and much worse by Omega later in the series.
 * This seems to be the case seeing as York seems to shrug off the eye injury in the trailer when telling Wash about it.
 * You guys are a bit off. York's eye injury was caused by Maine throwing a grenade in training, and Tex saved his other eye by using shooting him with the sticky stuff, which hardened the armor and saved York's life. Now, none of this has anything to do with Omega, but notice that Tex and York never actually say it was Omega's fault. They just say that by going after Wyoming, York can get revenge. This makes sense, because Wyoming was also in that training simulation, and he was also using lethal firearms. With Maine and Wyoming both being so reckless, it was just a matter of time before someone got injured, and the fact that it happened to be Maine that eventually caused York's injury doesn't mean Wyoming was being any less of an asshole. In summary, the revenge is on Wyoming, Omega's not to blame, Tex saved York in a training mission.


 * Why was Wash hesitant to let Church enter the Epsilon unit? I thought his original plan was to capture Church in the unit, let it malfunction, and hand it over to the Director?
 * The Unit failing wasn't planed, it was a result of it getting hit by Tex during the battle. The Meta and Wash originaly rigged it, so AI couldn't get out on their own, but they did not want to make it impossible to extract them. By keeping Epsilon outside of the shutting down Unit, Wash still had a chance to hand him over to the Chiarman/Commander and buy his freedom. With Epsilon (and Tex) inside of the broken unit, its impossible for Washington to prove they even existed.


 * In Reconstruction, Washington was surprised to find out that the Meta was Maine. But Washington worked with Maine before. Shouldn't Washington have recognized him when they fought?
 * He wasn't surprised; Church was. Wash was the one who offhandedly revealed the information while talking to Command about Agent Maine's Recovery Beacon, indicating that he must have known at least since the start of Reconstruction.

"Wash:We take it, and we get it in the hands of someone who can use all its information. Then they can bring down the person responsible for what was done to Alpha. And to me. And to my friends. They can take down the Director."
 * What was the point in everything Wash did in Reconstruction? Let's recap, he goes all the way to Freelancer base to find the Epsilon unit. The Epsilon unit has evidence of all the atrocities that project freelancer did to the Alpha. However, the goal wasn't to help Epsilon, but to simply turn it over to the authorities where it'd be left there as evidence. Also, the plan was to have Church/Alpha help Wash to fight Meta, but Wash knew full well that the EMP would kill Church. If it wasn't to help the Alpha, and he didn't seem to be under orders from anybody, then what was the point in all that stuff in Reconstruction? I get why he's doing the stuff in Revelation, that was simply to save his own ass and keep him out of prison. That's completely understandable. But he wouldn't be in that mess in the first place if he hadn't turned against Project Freelancer, who hadn't really done anything to him at that point. It sounded like he was angered at what they did to the Alpha, but part of his plan involved the complete annihilation of the Alpha.
 * You do remember the whole "torturing an AI so it breaks into fragments" deal, right? And that Wash had Memories of that process via Epsilon? Let me get the quote:

Wash simply wanted to get revenge on the Director, and wipe out the fragments that formed the Meta since they killed a bunch of Freelancers. Having Church staying behind was morally questionable, but Church had a choice.


 * So in Recreation, it was revealed that the Reds and Blues weren't actually sent into the future via bomb-blast back in season 3, but instead relocated while unconscious to investigate the Great Weapon? In that case, how did Church still end up going back in time?
 * Recreation hints that it had something to do with Gamma using Wyoming's time manipulation device.


 * Though Caboose wasn't exactly smart to begin with, there's been multiple hints that his extreme "stupidity" is due to the Omega incident. It's also been stated that the forceful removal of an AI from someone's head causes some kind of trauma or damage. Which makes Caboose actually brain damaged, perhaps even to the point of disability or mental handicap. Keeping this in mind, it suddenly becomes quite uncomfortable to see the others berate him, mock him, or patronize him for being "stupid" or "an idiot." Though berating, mocking, or patronizing someone for low IQ is pretty mean in itself, berating, mocking, or patronizing a disabled person for laughs seems to be Unfortunate Implications.
 * While he was nowhere near as bad as he is now, Caboose was always naive to begin with, and was thought of as an idiot by Church and Tucker. Because of this, they probably didn't notice that Caboose had become even worse after Omega, because they always considered him to be dumb, and he was just living up to their perception of him. Therefore, if he is brain damaged, they don't know it.
 * Honestly, rewatching from the beginning, Caboose was actually pretty dumb in the beginning (at least, before Omega). I think people's perception of early Caboose is slightly warped because in his first couple appearances, he's just naive. His "that makes you... a gay robot!" line was pre-Omega, for example. He didn't really have as much of an opportunity to show off his idiocy. Plus, there's no evidence of an AI being removed causing brain damage or mental handicap of the sort Caboose has... just general craziness has been implied, and considering Wash (who had an AI forcibly removed after it tried to kill itself because it remembered being horrifically tortured) isn't an idiot, and, I see no evidence for it. Donut, on the other hand...

Thats pretty much it.
 * Just why are people so insistent that the blue Freelancer is Tex in some form or other, even after ? She doesn't sound like Tex. She doesn't talk like Tex does. She has a very unique fighting style, involving flips and dancer-like kicks and minimum use of guns. It feels like forcing the similarities between the two is taking away from the fact that she's a very interesting character by herself.
 * Thats kind of a mish-mash of fan-theories. Ever since the big reveal of Reconstruction, people have been saying that the first time we see Church, he is already possesing a human body. Word of God says otherwise. There are hints that York and Carolina used to stick together, or where a couple (like Church assuming that when Tex met York, she also met Carolina) and Tex being Carolina in a way would make York and Tex working together more tragic.
 * A lot of it is fanwanking. It's entirely possible that the Freelancers actually do have (or rather had) two incredibly badass female agents. Still, they do have a lot of similarities. Consider that Delta says Caroline receives two AI. We know of a character who has two AI in one body (Season one Tex and Omega, given that Tex was an AI).
 * Except Tex and Church were not AI's in Season 1. That was retconned much later in the series.
 * They were AI's in season 1: the whole idea of a Retcon is "retroactive continuity" meaning that it applies to previous seasons. Furthermore, nothing in Season 1 directly contradicts Tex and Church being AI's, which made the retcon make sense when it was revealed in Reconstruction.
 * In any case, the theories are completely pointless. Carolina and Tex have been separate characters since Season 1, even before Carolina was mentioned at all. There were 49 freelancers, all of them with state designations and Allison got the Texas designation because she is from Texas.
 * Can someone tell me what the hell is going on at this point?
 * Epsilon is in the Epsilon-pod. He wants to recreate the events of the Blood Gulch Chronicles so Tex will show up. But he couldn't create the Reds with the right persionalities and Caboose already called help from Command, which originally didn't happen until after Church died. So there are some changes and this part of the series seems to focus on how those change affect the story and Epsilon.
 * The other parts focuses on the history of Project Freelancer. This is a Prequel to the main series, with no direct connection to the Epsilon-plot as of now. South and North extracted some Data from a Base, got discoverd, got saved by Carolina, everyone took of in a Pelican piloted by Pilot Lady. The Director is unhappy, because while they know where to go next thanks to the data, the enemy now knows they are coming. So South drops a rank on the chart and she is pissed.


 * In season 4, Church tells a disguised Simmons that he likes Donut, whom he considers to be pretty harmless. Wouldn't Church think the exact opposite, knowing that Donut was the one who "killed" Tex in season 1?


 * Who exactly are the Freelancers fighting in season 9? They're getting data files and planning attacks like it's a huge operation, but wasn't the whole point of Project Freelancer to fight the Aliens? Why're they killing humans, when all of humanity was supposed to be on the same side of the war?
 * Best guess? Wait and see.
 * It might be similar to what happened in the Halo series. Originally, the Spartans were designed to fight against human insurrectionists; the UNSC didn't even know the Covenant existed until the Spartans had already become full-fledged super-soldiers. Seems confirmed as of episode 13, when insurrectionists are explicitly mentioned.

In contrast, the Freelancer stuff is fairly new and interesting, and has been handled pretty decently throughout the series' run. And it's a chance to get to know better some characters like York and North that barely got any screentime before, or folks like Carolina who were previously mere mentions. Unfortunately, the constant switching back to the BGC is interfering, and making it feel like neither storyline is picking up enough steam. I really wish RT had just stuck fully to the Freelancer story and possibly just saved the BGC stuff for next season instead. And it's sort of darkly amusing to see that the forum thread on RvB is full of people who feel exactly the opposite of us...
 * This is kind of a personal one, but I've gotten really emotionally vested in the story so far, especially the backstory of Project Freelancer. Is it wrong then, that I get disappointed when the episode focuses on the main cast? Or that a PSA comes up instead of an actual episode?
 * You're not the only one. I think the "problem" with doing two completely different story lines, in completely different styles and moods, is that it splits the fans into two groups. There are those who wait on the edges of their seats each week for Freelancer action who then get disappointing when it's just the RVB guys talking. Then there are the fans who miss the "traditional" RVB, and complain that there's too much action. Last season, there wasn't such a divide because it was all mixed together into one story line.
 * Another person who agrees with you. I feel like as much as I like the BGC crew, their storyline feels pretty finished with nowhere much to go in terms of growth and development versus just rehashing the same stuff. And honestly what we've seen of the BGC crew so far seems to confirm that; it's amusing and occasionally laugh-out-loud funny, but nothing we haven't seen before.
 * I think part of it might be because of how long the freelancer episodes take to make, they would never be able to make a whole season worth of these. Besides the Blood Gultch stuff helps the pacing of the series, having the traditional episodes means that all of the CG episodes do not need the level of action that episode 2-4 had.
 * Now that we are nearing the end of the season things are getting crazy in both stories, this season will be awesome on dvd and part of that is because of its pacing
 * In episode 11 of season 9, when Wash, North, South, Carolina and CT come running in to check on York, the Director comes in and says they ought to be ashamed of themselves. Um....why? Whay did they do? He makes a speech about how they need to work as a team. So....what, expressing concern for a teammate's well being is not teamwork? I could understand him yelling at Maine and Wyomming for going all Leeroy Jenkins in the last episode, but he's specifically yelling at the others.
 * My guess is that he was just pissy and took it out on them.
 * He was scolding them for interfering, and praising Maine and Wyoming for their ingenuity.
 * They only interfered when York got blown up. Why would he scold them for not letting York die? And it wasn't even really interfering at that point, because the fight was pretty much over. I guess he could be pissed at Wash, because in episode 10, Wash looked like was about to get someone to stop the fight, but he specifically yelled at all of them. The whole thing sounded pretty weird and nonsensical, like the dialogue was written for another scenario altogether.
 * Keep in mind that the Director is intended as an asshole boss. He doesn't care about the individual freelancers, he only cares about making them the best they can possibly be so that they can complete their missions. In his mind, it seems, the loss of a freelancer is acceptable if it makes the rest of them better fighters, or if it accomplishes their goal. For instance, in the most recent episode, the Director sends Tex with the transmitter, and doesn't tell any of the other freelancers. If things hadn't played out the way they did, the firing of the MAC would likely have resulted in a couple of freelancers dying. Further, the pelican, that Carolina calls, also departs with only Tex and Wash on board and the pilot doesn't ask about the others, or call for a second pick up for them.
 * My guess is that the Director was scolding them for taking York's side. If York wasn't knocked out cold, the Director would be scolding him too for 'abandoning his teammates'. Though he's scolding everyone else, his speech seemed mostly directed at Washtington, who asked why Wyoming and Maine weren't going to be punished.


 * Why would Church have any reason for an Oh Crap when Tex told him she knew everything? I mean, he went in there hoping to find her with memory completely intact, and then pull her out. It was only when he had to reconstruct Blood Gulch that he needed everything to go the way it was back in BGC.
 * Probably because up to that point, she hadn't so much as mentioned that she knew everything. So it's not like he gets to meet up with his beloved Tex again and they can go skipping off into fields of daisies; from his perspective, she obviously doesn't care about staying with him. And Church being Church, he's obviously not willing to let her go yet.


 * Does it bother anyone else that Carolina was very conspicuously wearing lip gloss and eyeliner in the Finale?
 * It bothers me. Not only is it plain dumb (they are on a rescue mission that, according to Caboose, went on for some time, she is wearing a helmet, so for whom to see did she put on perfect make-up that stays perfect after hours of sweaty fighting?), it's also really out of character for Carolina.
 * Er...she was wearing makeup when talking to the Director, not after the rescue mission. We don't even see her face after the rescue mission.
 * As for why she's wearing it when talking to the Director, is there a rule that says that women who can kick your butt have to hate makeup or something? It doesn't seem odd to me at all that she might wear some between missions.
 * But if she's wearing it to look nice, then why's she still in her armor with her helmet under her arm? Can she even use those bulky arms to do eyeliner and mascara without poking herself in the eye? And isn't there a rule in the military that women can't wear conspicuous makeup? Honestly, I think the only reason she's in makeup is because Monty Oum thought she'd look hotter that way.
 * "is there a rule that says that women who can kick your butt have to hate makeup or something?" No, but it's pretty understandable that women who spend all day kicking butt, jumping off skyscrapers, dodging bullets, and getting run over by trucks are too busy to put on smoky eyes.
 * In the scene in question, she was back at base, between missions. We're not talking about her taking off her helmet at the end of the freeway chase, we're talking about in the finale when she's talking to the Director, which is likely some time after the heist/freeway chase. So no, I wouldn't say she would be too busy to do so.
 * Even if she is between missions (which doesn't mean free time), if she's too preoccupied to get out of that half-ton suit, then it's pretty likely she'd be too preoccupied to do smoky eyes. I'm pretty sure women in the military don't wear mascara, eyeliner, and lip gloss while still wearing full combat gear.
 * We don't know her character that well. Maybe wearing make up is just an odd quirk. Maybe its just Rule of Sexy at work. Its not like it makes her any less of a character.
 * Considering her, ah, tone of voice while talking to the Director, it's entirely possible she put on the makeup because she wanted to impress/look good for him as much as possible while still "on-duty".
 * Of course, it's possible that we could just be overanalyzing things and that the real reason was simply because her 3D model was generated from the face of a woman who was wearing makeup.

Not to say the guy isn't angry in the future, just that it's mostly justified considering both what happened to him and in having to deal with the Blood Gulch guys. I mean, he comes off as extremely controlled in being just a bit curt and snippy in reaction to the abuse and stupidity the BG guys heap on him (including Church saying he's glad Washington's comrades are being murdered, for pity's sake). Even when he goes off the deep end in Season 8, he still doesn't flip as much as he could have. He even keeps Doc around and alive even though he has no particular reason to, and is even polite to Doc. Despite Doc snarking at him constantly. So yeah. I don't get it.
 * Why does Carolina call Epsilon!Church "Alpha" in the finale? If she was working with the Rv B guys, including Wash I'm assuming, wouldn't she know it was Epsilon and not the original Alpha?
 * Word of God is, Carolina doesn't care if he's Alpha or Epsilon. She needs him to get to the Director (probably because he can get through Freelancer security) but she doesn't care about him more than that. Which leads to an interesting contrast between Wash and Carolina—Wash may not like Church, exactly, but at the end of the day, the reason he's against the Director is because of what the Director did to the Alpha. By contrast, Carolina's presumably in it for what the Director did to her.
 * Who is the soldier in blue armor who appears in the background of some scenes, such as the "planning the heist" scene? He/she was apparently considered important enough to appear on the Project Freelancer cover and DVD case.
 * He's probably a pilot, like Four Seven Niner.
 * In an AMA on Reddit, Burnie said we'll see more of him/her in Season 10. They could be just support personnel, but the fact that they're going to show up again does hint they could be more important—maybe another Freelancer, maybe another pilot (there were two Pelicans in the heist, after all, even if Four Seven Niner's total awesomeness overshadowed the other guy's actions).
 * I thought he was Church at first. Then I just went "meh" since, while he's unimportant, so are Wyoming and (ultimately) North. They're two of the least featured Freelancers of the season (North being almost a decoy protagonist)... maybe they'll do more next season, too.
 * WMG has the best theory ever, for it. It's Private Jimmy from Sidewinder. It wouldn't make sense to be another pilot because he's last seen riding in Four-Seven-Niner's Pelican.
 * The Rv B wiki says York's first name is James. Is this officially confirmed anywhere?
 * It's on Wikipedia, which is where the Rv B wiki got it from, but there's no reference on Wikipedia. My bet is that somebody just stuck it in there and no one ever noticed and took it down, because I've never seen any confirmation of it anywhere.
 * At the beginning of episode 19 of Revelation Wash tries to stab Tex with the memory unit and she knocks it out of his hands and almost off the cliff. He then yells "Be more careful, this thing cant take anymore hits." What bugs me is who is he yelling that at? If doesn't make sense for it to be Meta because he didn't have it and had no part in it getting knocked away. It makes even less sense to yell at Tex because she has every right to be knocking it away since Wash is trying to STAB her with it. It's entirely his fault but he seems to be yelling at someone, can anyone clarify this for me?
 * Wash is highly stressed and generally likes yelling at people for something they have no fault at.
 * I understand the stress part but I don't recall any time he yells at people for things they didn't do, except the incident with Donut. Even then Wash tends to be the one who is rational and calm, not the one who lashes out at others when he messes up, it all just seems too out of character to me.
 * I figured he was just warning the Meta to watch where/how he's attacking just in case he would accidentally hit the device. Not so much laying fault anywhere as just giving a heads up on the situation.
 * Kind of a fandom headscratcher here, I guess. Namely, why do people constantly depict Washington in fanfics as being essentially a mean and cruel Blood Knight with an uncontrollable and inherent anger problem? Even when they're spot on with other people's characterizations. When IMHO it's clear he's basically the stereotypical hardened-but-still-a-good-guy generic by-the-book Special Agent hero popular in other stories, just transplanted into the demented RvB universe with all the results you'd expect. Borne out by his Season 9 portrayal where he has mostly the same personality but isn't hardened yet so he's much nicer and more naive instead of angry and bitter.
 * That, my friend, is called Ron the Death Eater. Maybe it's something to do with shooting Lopez and Donut, and not being able to live it down.
 * It's the same reason why some people constantly want to pair him with South Dakota. They just don't truly understand the character.


 * What happened to blue team's original Sargent?
 * The Blue Team's original sergeant was Captain Flowers who died of an aspirin overdose. It... sort of makes sense in context. See the middle of Season 3.
 * Not overdose, allergy.


 * In Recovery 1, Wash seems to be meeting Delta for the first time. But then in the first episode of Season 10, York says to Delta, "Have you been talking to Wash again?"
 * Delta likely hadn't seen Washington for years since the Epsilon breakdown. It's possible Delta was simply unsure if it was Wash when he first saw him. Especially considering the change in personality Wash had since the breakdown.