Dragon Ball/Fridge

Fridge Brilliance

 * Right before he dies on Namek, Vegeta tells Goku he wants Frieza to die by a Saiyan's hand. Guess who does ultimately kill Frieza? Not only a Saiyan, but Vegeta's son, Trunks!
 * In early Dragonball Z, Bulma and Roshi ask Baba if she can see the outcome of the fight against the saiyans. Specifically, they ask whether the earth is intact one year from now. There was no apparant reason for her not to see the outcome, except for not spoiling the fight, of course. Then this troper realized that, if Roshi and Bulma asked her about this only a month or so before the fight, then the reason she couldn't see the a year ahead into the future anymore was because of Cell travelling to the past before that point. Remember that Cell arrived a year before Trunks, and the Freeza saga lasted barely over a month, with only a years time between then and Trunks arriving. Once time travel becomes involved, Baba can't see the future anymore! Must have hurt her business.
 * In Dragonball Z a friend of mine pointed out that Goku starts the series wearing an emblem on his jumpsuit, then about midway through the series he stops wearing it. Neither me or my friend could figure out why he suddenly stopped wearing it, figuring that maybe the animators just got tired of it. My friend then remarked that it could be symbolic. He started the show as a student of Roshi and King Kai. Then after he became a Super Saiyan, he stopped wearing the symbols because he's now the master.--Sketchpad
 * The manga outright states this at least one time, but your friend was still dead-on.
 * You could potentially say a very similar thing about Krillin. Forever living in everyone's shadow: his best friends, the major villains, the monks at the Shaolin temple... he constantly wore some form of uniform right up until the very last battle with Cell. Seven years later free from any major battles and embracing the company of his wife and daughter (an arguably enjoying the protection living with a super powerful Android brings) he learnt to loosen up and accept himself. Come the Tournament he discards the Turtle and Shaolin uniforms and instead, for the first time in a major fight, wears an unbranded red T-shirt and track pants.
 * Muten Roshi's signature move is the Kamehameha. In Hawaii there were five kings named Kamehameha. Muten Roshi is always shown on a tropical island wearing Hawaiian shirts, and he hangs out with a turtle.--tussl12
 * "Kame" means turtle. Kamehameha roughly means "turtle school attack".
 * "Turtle school wave". Anyway, the conection with King Kamehameha was intentional. Word of God stated his wife come with this pun for him.
 * I thought it meant "Slow turtle wave" - Vox The Hero
 * It's actually "Turtle Destruction Wave"/"Turtle Devastation Wave". - Saiga
 * The series has referred to it as the "Kamehameha Wave" several times, especially in the original series. So it's the Turtle Destruction Wave Wave, then?
 * Piccolo's transition from Good Is Not Nice loner to Team Dad makes a lot of sense when you take into consideration that he takes on aspects of the personality of those he fused with. Considering fused with Nail and then Kami, it makes a lot of sense in story why Piccolo defrosted the way he did.
 * And on the subject of Piccolo, why keep the name of his evil counterpart? In Namekian, according to Word of God, Piccolo means "Another World". And since Kami is a title, not a name, Piccolo was probably adopted by the Namekian when he couldn't remember his name. Even deeper, the titles "King Piccolo" and "Kami (Piccolo)" would translate to King and God, respectively, of another world!
 * A more Meta Example. My entire expeirience for the anime was greatly enhanced when I stopped looking at it as a fight anime, and started looking at it as Kabuki Theater. Once I did that, the unbearably long Power Ups and poses and glowing and Calling Your Attacks were completely understandable and even enjoyable. Tropers/vp21ct
 * Spot on. Thanks for the tip.
 * This troper often wondered why Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 after Cell crushed Android 16's head. Sure, it was sad and all, but Gohan didn't really know 16 very well. But then, it hit me after seeing some video's: That scene was exactly identical to a nightmare Gohan had in some filler, were Cell crushed Piccolo's head, one of the people he cares most for, in the same manner. Cell crushing 16's head made him realize how Cell could easily destroy everyone he knew and loved. - Shadowgirl 13 Chaos
 * The existence of the many non-canon movies used to bug me. However, I remembered what Trunks said about the nature of time travel and the existence of multiple timelines. Then I realized- they may not be canon in this timeline, but they are in others
 * Actually they are. The movies World's Strongest, Tree of Might and Lord Slug take place in an alternate timeline where Goku arrived in time to save the other fighters from Vegeta and Nappa. Yamcha and the others never died so there was no need to go to Namek.
 * Piccolo swore to avenge his father's death at the hands of Goku by killing him. I just realized he did.
 * It gets better. Immediately after that (Goku's body is still warm) he becomes a good guy, shown by training Gohan. As soon as he completes his oath, he starts walking his own path.
 * I'm sure to a lot of people this was obvious but it took me a while to figure out that the whole reason Cell tried so hard to get Gohan to turn into a Super Saiyan 2 was becuase he had Vegeta's cells, and like Vegeta he wants to prove that he can beat characters while they're at their strongest.
 * More likely, it's because he's the literal embodiment of the idea of perfection. Cell's Games are all about to show the other Z he's the perfect warrior, so he had to dispel any doubt about Gohan.
 * Not only is he part Vegeta, but part Goku as well. Maybe the Saiyans all have some trait about them that makes them want their enemy at full power when they're defeated.
 * It's stated in canon that ALL Saiyans are tremendous Blood Knights. Some take it the sadistic and more common route such as Vegeta, and others are entirely interested in the thrill of the fight such as Goku. Okay, just Goku.
 * At first, Cell's Taking You With Me seems to be just an act of desperation. Here comes the brilliance; using the move, Cell manages to accomplish the purpose he was built for: killing Goku.
 * Actually it can be seen as somewhat ironic (I think I'm using that right) as Cell was the only Android in the entire saga that was NOT built for killing Goku, instead he was only built to achieve perfection.
 * This troper thinks the reason he was meant to become perfect was to help him beat Goku, and Cell just kinda went on his own from there. Even more ironic in that case would be that Cell actually wasn't perfect when he killed Goku since he lost Android 18.
 * I think I can solve the confusion here. Dr. Gero states that the reason for creating new androids was to find one capable of killing Goku. Apparently not convinced 17 and 18 could do the job, he creates Cell, who upon perfection can beat Goku. Cell reaches perfection, but the power corrupts his programming, making defeating Goku seem like a trifle. Nevertheless, Cell's tactics do lead to Goku's death. Note this is more Fridge Brilliance for Dr. Gero, not Cell.
 * Cell actually says as much to Trunks, at least in the Dragon Ball Kai version, when explaining and deciding that he wants a tournament.
 * Goku seems to have a lot of problem with killing in the Saiyan/Namek saga (wanting to let Nappa, Jeice, Recoome and Burter live and letting Vegeta and trying to let Frieza live) the reason that stopped after the Namek saga was because for the first time that Goku had let someone live (Frieza) it didn't turn them good. Every other villain Goku let live in the past became good so Goku wanting to let everyone live, until Frieza proved mercy doesn't make all bad guys good, is understandable.
 * Android 16 was a pacifist and Gentle Giant. He was also far more obedient than 17 and 18. So why was Doctor Gero so afraid of him? Perhaps he had a really bad experience with an android that had the exact same personality but a few hundred thousand times less fighting power (one from 8 generations ago).
 * This troper thought it was weird at first Gero made cyborgs when he was perfectly capable of making robots, then had a moment of fridge logic: Gero created CELL. To make Cell the most powerful being in the universe Gero needed him to have nigh infinite energy, but couldn't give him an infinite energy generator because Cell was grown from... cells. 17 and 18 NEEDED to be cyborgs in order for Cell to be able to absorb them, since he can't absorb pure machines (shown with 16) I like to think this is correct when 17 himself has an inner monologue pondering the same thing.
 * This troper used to think that Gero saying android 16 was a "horrible defect" was just a fake warning to keep 17 and 18 from re-activating him, as he was perfectly functional. But, then i just realized he is defective, in Gero's eyes, anyways; he had no motive for destroying Goku like he wanted, and was peaceful and gentle, not the Goku smashin' death machine he wanted him to be. - Shadowgirl 13 Chaos
 * Android 16 seems to have an extremely good ability for analysing his opponents, as observed by his sensing the Kami/Piccolo fusion. This might be why he turned out a 'defective' pacifist. With perception comes empathy.
 * Not entirely true. I can't speak for the anime, but in the manga at the start of the Cell Games Goku says to 16 something along the lines of "Hey, thanks for fighting alongside us," to which 16 replies "Don't forget, I was created to kill you". YMMV on this, but he may have been implying that once Cell was gone, he was going to kill (or at least fight) Goku.
 * Broly is missing from both the Fusion Reborn movie and the Super 17 saga of GT when all the villains escape from hell (despite other movie villains appearing in both situations and Broly being one of the most popular movie villains), it just now occurred to me that at the end of the Bio Broly movie Goku and Pikkon got sent to hell to stop Broly from causing trouble...They must have killed him, which would have wiped him out from existence.
 * If GT is anything to go by, getting killed in hell doesn't wipe you out of existence. Goku accidentally killed Frieza and Cell (and no guessing here, they were frozen solid ans shattered), and they show up fine in the next episode, tied up and in a cage.
 * Kurilin refusing to kill 18. Here I was thinking "what a softy, to think this was the pain in the ass punk kid Goku trained with." then I realized, that's why he's so reluctant to kill someone who, so far, has shown themselves to be little more than a delinquent, not a villain. He knows firsthand people like that can reform.
 * He even flat-out states it at the beginning of the Android Saga when explaining to Bulma that they should try to fight the Androids with Vegeta because it gave them a common enemy. Goku made most of his friends like this. At first, people like Oolong, Yamcha, Tien, Yajirobe, Piccolo, Vegeta and even Krillin were all rivals and enemies against Goku, but when faced with a common goal (i.e. finding the Dragon Balls and defeating a stronger enemy), they became allies and later friends. I think that Krillin was thinking that if they became allies to fight against Cell, she wouldn't need to die.
 * Cell's self-destruct allows the androids to do exactly what they were programmed to: kill Goku.
 * This troper used to wonder why Goku was willing to allow Frieza a chance to redeem himself and live, even after killing Krillin, even though when Demon King Piccolo did the same (indirectly, but still), Goku became a berserk Blood Knight who would not stop until Piccolo was absolutely dead. Then I remembered that Goku's utter pureness, he cannot bring himself to kill anyone who has even an ounce of redeemable qualities in them. Even though Frieza was as big of a Complete Monster as we see in Z, he still must have been good at some point in his life, even if it was only as an infant, so he does have at least a minuscule amount of good in him. Demon King Piccolo, however, was literally the embodiment of evil, being what was formed when Kami expelled all the bad stuff from his body. He was born of pure evil and Goku was able to sense that. Even though he didn't know Piccolo's backstory, he could sense that there wasn't even the smallest chance at redemption, so he had no choice but to kill him.
 * Even more brilliant when you remember what he said about Vegeta episodes earlier, how Vegeta wasn't born bad, but made that way! Goku might be applying this same logic to Freiza and is offering him a chance to redeem himself.
 * Alternatively, it's Cruel Mercy. He was clearly mocking Freiza at the end, and essentially told him to hide in a corner of the universe and never come back. Freiza would've spent the rest of his life a shell of his former self with the knowledge that he was owned by "a lowly Saiyan." Which, to a Saiyan, would be a Fate Worse Than Death, one that Freiza deserves.
 * Not exactly sure where to put this, but as I was watching Dragon Ball Z Kai I realized a human and a Saiya-jin have a fertile offspring, so that means biologically humans and Saiya-jin are the same species.
 * Actually, not necessarily true. If the DNA is compatible, two completely distinct species can procreate. For instance, lions and tigers can produce (sterile) offspring. In fact, it is even believed by some scientists (but yet to be proven) that chimpanzees and humans may be capable of creating a hybrid, dubbed the 'Humanzee'.
 * Two creatures belong to the same species if and only if they can generate fertile offspring. That is, if their children can have children of their own. This condition is proven true with Pan (daughter of Gohan, who is a human/saiyan hybrid himself). So yes, humans and saiyans are the same species.
 * Possibly relevant, but King Kai mentions that Planet Vegeta wasn't the Saiyans original home planet.
 * Why is it that Gohan always seems to be just strong enough for any given situation? Because he trained with Piccolo, and the big green guy beat seven shades of hell out of him on a constant basis. Saiyans, even Half-Saiyans, get stronger every time they get themselves beaten into a fine paste. It could be that Gohan was Super Saiyan material all along and just didn't know how to control it, instead deciding subconsciously to be just a shade weaker than the strongest person he knew at the time, Piccolo. As time goes on, he learns to control it better, with occasional outbursts of "Holy Crap" power when he gets angry (see: him kicking around Types 2 and 3 Freeza after 1) impaling Krillin and 2) Beating the crap out of surrogate father Piccolo). One of Gohan's inner monologues during the Cell saga suggests that, if he had been more prepared, more in control, it would have been him beating Freeza into a fine mist on Namek rather than his father.
 * Why was Goku the first Saiyan in millennia to reach Super Saiyan? It's stated that the trigger for the Super Saiyan transformation is anger. Specifically, anger over the death of Krillin, his best friend since childhood. Compare to pre Heel Face Turn Vegeta, who didn't hesitate to kill Nappa despite the fact that he's been Vegeta's constant companion since the Saiyan's extinction. Saiyans were raised from birth to be warriors and conquerers, and a big part of that was having little to no respect for the value of life, be it friend or foe. Goku was probably the first Saiyan in ages to truly care about someone other than himself, and as such was the first in ages to feel genuine anguish when he lost that someone. It's really the ultimate case of Beware the Nice Ones.
 * This also goes a long way to explaining why the very sensitive Gohan was the first to reach Super Saiyan 2.
 * Why is it called a Hyperbolic Time Chamber? It exaggerates time.
 * I originally believed that Goku told Gohan to finish off Cell quickly because then Cell would be dead and it would be all over and done with. After watching Kai, I realized that Goku was telling him this because 1) he had been in the exact same situation on Namek versus Frieza, and the trademark cockiness/ruthlessness of the SSJ transformation had nearly cost him his life, and 2) Goku probably realized that Cell, having Frieza's DNA in him, would react in the same way as Frieza did upon being overmatched: he would try to destroy the planet.
 * So what's this about Frieza saying it would take 5 minutes to blow up Namek, and it really taking umpteen episodes? Well, one could more than likely chalk that up in large part to the fact that by that point in the series, characters had long since been fighting at greater speeds than the human eye could normally track, and Goku and Frieza had started to gain speeds so high not even the already supersonic characters could track their movements. The death ball may well have been taking approximately 5 minutes to destroy Namek, but considering the show had to considerably "slow down" the Goku v. Frieza fight for we humans to see, it didn't translate into as short of a show-time.
 * The speed at which they would be fighting is fair enough a point, but the dialogue that Goku and Frieza exchange with one another lasts much longer than 5 minutes. Far more believable alternatives include the possibility that Frieza vastly underestimated the amount of time it would time for Namek to explode or that Frieza's perception of a minute being different from ours given that he is an alien.
 * Or maybe Namek have a different time scale than Earth. Who's to say that 5 minutes in Namekian time is the same as 5 minutes in Earth time?
 * Not Namekian time. Perhaps whatever measure of time Frieza is used to using.
 * Frieza DID in fact underestimate the time it would take for Namek to blow up. In the English dub at least, he actually points out when the five minutes have already gone by, and sounds rather surprised the planet is still intact.
 * When watching the fight between Goku vs. Pikkon, I at one point wondered why, when Goku went Super Saiyan, everyone (apart from King Kai) was surprised to see this, with West Kai outright asking what had happened to him. Then I realized that this was because practically every other Saiyan had been to some degree like Vegeta in their personality, and thus would have most likely been sent to Hell. The only possible exception to this would have been Bardock, and because Bardock was not an incredibly powerful fighter, he would not be 'qualify' to participate in the Otherworld Tournament. Therefore, everyone is surprised because most of them have never seen a Saiyan before, and the few who might have seen one have definitely never seen a Super Saiyan. Rellevart.
 * I was rereading the character page and noticed that Gohan's SSJ 2 form was listed under dark messiah. Gohan, even more than his father, seems to have a very high value for life in general (even animals), which is why, normally he doesn't seem able to outright kill his opponents. But when Cell killed 16 (angering him enough to get into that form), it's likely that, to him, Cell's life had lost all value. And if you're not considered 'live' to him, tearing you limb from limb won't quite affect him emotionally.
 * So…Gohan briefly became a Sociopathic Hero. And this isn't Fridge Horror for some reason!?
 * After the Freeza Saga, the Zenkai ability all Saiyan's possess, to get excessively stronger after suffering a near fatal defeat, seems to vanish completely after all Saiyan's have become Super Saiyans? The beatdown Vegeta received from Android 18 and then being healed later should have been enough to widen the gap, but we had to endure training. The same with Gohan, in the Buu Saga, who was beat nearly to death by Super Buu w/Gotenks and Dende healed him. Not a single increase. So, I asked a friend of mine, and he decided upon the fact that Zenkai itself is a rudimentary form of Super Saiyan, as it increases power with a certain trigger (near death, healing), Super Saiyan increases it with a certain trigger (anger, desire). Super Saiyan is simply an extreme, conscious version of Zenkai.
 * This is even better. Think about how the Saiyan's power suddenly started skyrocketing due to zenkai with boosts going into double digits. This is around the point where the characters' power levels are going from 50,000-180,000 to around the few millions. Vegeta, Gohan and especially Goku (for one got a 33x increase making him strong enough to fight Frieza's 4th form) get their powers boosted past the 7 digit mark. This makes their power levels high enough to bring the Super Saiyan transformation within reach. This suggests that at that point Zenkai is no longer just a healing factor. When there is a potential to ascend to a much higher level of power the Zenkai becomes the Saiyan's own Unlock Potential ability, and it's sole purpose at that point is to awaken enough power to allow a Super Saiyan transformation to happen. After that it again goes back to a healing factor and doesn't provide much significant boost to be noticed.
 * It's noted on this wiki that Piccolo acts very differently in his first appearence in the 23d World Martial Arts Tournament then he does in all later appearences. When I re-watched those episodes, I noticed that his mad, card-carrying villian persona is a lot like his father's. The frige brilliance- Piccolo was only three years old at the time of the Tournament, but he has his father's memories. So, at the Turnament, he hadn't really had much life experience, and so acted based on his memories, but by the time he appears later on in "Z", he's had more time to develop his own personality- the stoic Jerk With a Heart of Gold he is for the rest of the series. -Bergil

AC:Fridge Horror

 * Boss Rabbit was after he was defeated. A little later.
 * Piccolo blows up the moon again early in Z to stop a rampaging Gohan. That means Dragon Ball's Earth must have at least two moons, possibly more.
 * Dragon Ball's Earth only has a single moon. During Goku's training in the Lookout, Kami restored the moon after he made sure Goku's tail would never grow back.
 * The Capsules. Ranging from practical (cars and house), to threatening (Launch being able to carry an entire armory of guns in her POCKET) to more horrorific things like being able to hide dead bodies inside capsules (as Bulma does to Krillin after his death, and later  . If Bulma can easily place Krillin's body in a freezer capsule, turn the freezer into a capsule with HIM inside, you have to wonder how many potential unsolved murders there are. Presumably you could hide LIVING people inside a capsule. If not by simply pressing the button with them inside while they're alive,
 * Let's also consider the thought that not only could the capsules hold a living person, but multiple people. One person could carry an entire gang of armed soldiers into any place they want.
 * Pretty much every villain starting with Vegeta wanted to use the Dragonballs to gain immortality, which means that they wouldn't be able to be killed. Sounds all nice and dandy until you think of Frieza's reaction if Vegeta had succeeded. Can anyone say endless cycle of pain? Suddenly, immortality doesn't sound so great.
 * However, Saiyans grow in power whenever they survive a fatal experience, so Vegeta could have just withstood Frieza's punishment until he was powerful enough to fight back.
 * He became Super Saiyan from feeling extreme rage after he hit a plateau of the Can't Catch Up variety. An immortal Vegeta still at Frieza's mercy could easily replicate that.
 * In Dragon Ball Z, there is a problem from a Filler where Buu (after killing everyone on Earth and destroying the planet) also destroyed at least one other planet with intelligent life on it. Later, they wish Earth back into existence and then revive every good person killed by Buu. Fridge Horror when you realize all those Aliens who were brought back to life... only to be floating in space to die horribly again.
 * Furthermore, there are all those islands Cell blew up when looking for 18. When the people inhabiting those islands were revived, they'd just reappear in the middle of the ocean, and presumably drown.
 * When the others gathered the Dragon Balls after the Cell Games, they wished for everyone killed by Cell to come back to life... leaving all those killed before by Vegeta and Dr. Gero dead.
 * And Piccolo tried to buy time by telling Buu to kill off all the inhabitants of the Earth. They weren't planning on using the Namekian Dragonballs at this point (they didn't even know that would work on such a large scale), so that means that anyone who had previously been killed by Vegita or Cell and then revived couldn't be revived. Piccolo was either that jaded or that desperate that he offered to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of people that the dragonballs couldn't save.
 * Some of the OVA movies like Lord Slug which are thought to be set in an alternate timeline, where Goku got to the battle with Vegeta and Nappa earlier so that none of the Z-Fighters died, and therefore they never made the trip to Namek. This means that nobody was around to stop Frieza, who presumably wiped out the remaining Namekians. Does that mean Frieza is immortal in those universes?
 * It's quite possible that Freeza, being Freeza, ended up killing Guru during in his search for the Dragon Balls, rendering their powers void, and his mission meaningless. Of course, this theory has the major flaw of "Why didn't he just go to Earth and take theirs, then?", which could be Fridge Horror in and of itself.
 * Perhaps because he never knows about Earth bearing any person or thing of significance if not for Goku and the rest of the visitors from there who ruined his plans?
 * But if none of the Z-Fighters died, they would have no reason to plan a trip to Namek, meaning Frieza never overheard their plans to go, meaning he never went there, either.
 * Still leaves Frieza with his galaxy-spanning empire where he's free to kill and destroy anyone he comes across, and might end up on Namek eventually anyway.
 * In the Buu saga, Videl . Now remember she's on the weak end of the cast, with even the little kids far exceeding her power. You start to realize just how much power these characters have and are holding back.
 * The fillers before the Cell Games seem like Heartwarming Moments...until you realize that Goku's putting the entire fate of the world on his own son, who a) might not be able to gather up enough energy to destroy Cell, and b) might not even want to fight Cell!! This, after he told everyone that even he would be utterly destroyed by Cell! He was really, really lucky Gohan was able to do both (a) and (b) otherwise the world would have been really, really screwed.
 * The world was screwed if Gohan couldn't defeat Cell, and that's the point of all that heartwarming filler. Goku's not a complete idiot - the potential for failure was there, so he wasn't about to waste what time they had left. Goku's Saiyan love of battle may have been lost in Gohan's human heritage, but his desire to protect life certainly was not.
 * Elder Kai warns our heroes that irresponsible use of the Dragon Balls could badly upset the balance of nature and cause terrible cataclysms. Wasn't planet Namek all but destroyed by natural disasters in Guru's time?
 * The AU story Episode of Bardock ends on a positive note as Bardock  However, this begs the question of how his actions affected the future within that specific timeline. Do the Saiya-jin wind up colonizing another world or do they still wind up on Planet Plant? If it's the latter, did he inadvertently contribute to the conquest of Plant by making the people there think Saiya-jin could be trusted?

Fridge Logic

 * See here.