Western Animation/Headscratchers


 * Why is it that children in comedic cartoons are unrealistically short, even for those aimed at children. In Real Life, most ten-year-olds are four feet tall, but in cartoons they appear to be closer to two or three feet tall. For example, in Fairly Oddparents, Timmy Turner is half as tall his parents' legs, but if the show were live-action, his head should be fully above their waists.
 * Most cartoons work through exaggeration, and this is just one expression of it; most kids feel small and dominated (and consequently powerless) by the height of their parents and other adults, so this is just an exaggerated reflection of this.
 * Same reason Calvin was about as tall as a toddler despite being six years old in Calvin and Hobbes.
 * So in cartoon world, how do such Super-Deformed kids put their clothes on in the morning? (Watsonian Mode)


 * Am I the only one who can't understand why some styles give everybody the same black eye color? Yes, I know it's simpler to give the characters little black dots in their eyes, but really. Would it be that hard to have a little colored dot? If you're trying to figure out what eyes a character has you're going to have a pretty hard time.
 * Mostly, because it doesn't matter, so it's better to go the easier way. Of course, that episode of The Simpsons in which Homer tries to remember Marge's eye color makes little to no sense, but that might be the point(although I think it seriously made little to no sense, indeed), but I think that's only one case where the stylistic convention bit the writers on the ass afterwards.
 * Because sometimes it can look really, really freaky. Especially if they mess it up, which is presumably easy to do.
 * This troper can attest to that.
 * Same here. They did that for the anime Tenchi in Tokyo and it felt unsettling.
 * It also leaves the animators less open to goofs and blunders; easier to remember and be consistent with eye colours if everyone is just a simple black dot than if you have to start juggling different eye colours for different characters.


 * Do Japanese fans of Western Animation have Subbing vs. Dubbing arguments? Is there a subculture in Japan that only watches Western Animation and claims Western Animation to be superior to animation from their own country?
 * This troper doesn't know of that much, but his mom's japanese friend says that some projects for people learning to be a translator actually do watch the cartoons in their native language and then a dub (or vice versa) so they can learn how translation works, same with comic strips but once more, Your Mileage May Vary on that.
 * Odd question. As far as I can tell no. The only particularly popular western animations in Japan (to my knowledge at any rate) are Disney/Pixar and (for some reason) Tom and Jerry, but I've never heard of any of those being subbed. Of course Tom and Jerry don't really speak, which might explain it's international appeal (I also personally find it to be one of my favorite cartoons, but that's beside the point).
 * As a matter of fact, it happens! The Call of Duty video game series has run into this in Japan. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and Call of Duty: Black Ops are available in Japan only on region-locked systems and only in Japanese dubbed voices. The Japanese Call of Duty fans have since been complaining about that terrible Japanese voice acting and have been demanding that Activision make available the wonderful English voice acting with Japanese subtitles. As for Western Animation in general, few of them become popular enough in Japan to get fandoms, and the ones that do are usually just subbed or they make a new version of it, such as Demashita Power Puff Girls Z.


 * I'm the guy who, two threads above, explained why he loves the cartoons from the 1980s so much, even though they're not really Cartoonists' Cartoons, to borrow the Original Poster's term. Now, I'd like to turn the question around. I've been looking into the claims made by John Kricfalusi out of curiosity, and also admittedly in part because I was irritated by his condemnation of the shows I liked as a kid. Kricfalusi keeps talking about how artists should be the ones doing cartoons, and that animation should be "cartoony"...but does that mean that all Western animation can only follow in the footsteps of Looney Tunes? It's almost never the animation that attracts me to a cartoon-it's the writing and the concept behind it. I don't even like cartoony stuff-I outgrew Looney Tunes a long time ago, and as I kid I wasn't impressed either by The New Adventures Of Mighty Mouse or Ren and Stimpy, which I found nauseating, unfunny and painful to watch. When I saw Kricfalusi's comments about the '80s cartoons he hated, I got the impression that he was looking down on the unwashed Philistines like me who actually enjoyed that stuff. So, in essence, I'm asking-how prevalent is that type of John K. mentality among cartoonists and animators? I'm not an animation expert, just a curious casual fan, so take my questions for what they're worth.
 * If you were to ask John K "Why do all cartoons have to follow in the steps of Looney Tunes?", his reply would be "They don't. But why can't at least a few do that?" The way John K (and his fans) see it, cartoons like Looney Tunes and Ren and Stimpy is the lively sort of stuff that animation was made for, whereas other shows lack the sort of expression that cartoonists enjoy and find to be cartoony. A John K follower would say that if you want to "forget what animation is about, fine - but why can't cartoonists get some stuff they enjoy from their own dang medium? We don't even get one every decade." Simply put, John K thinks that you can enjoy your eighties cartoons if you want to, but he wants more of the stuff that in his opinion, defines the animation medium.
 * If John K thinks I can enjoy my '80s cartoons, why does he spend so much time attacking animation writers who can't draw? I can't draw, and if I were ever to become a TV writer, most of what I'd like to do (stuff similar to Batman the Animated Series, or The Spectacular Spider Man) would probably be animated. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to participate in animated shows at all, then? And not to mention how his own page on this wiki mentions one of his Berserk Buttons as anyone thinking the story is more important than the art. What he seems to forget is that's why most people actually watch animated shows-because of the stories, not because of the supposed quality of animation or lack thereof.
 * (To the guy above) 1. THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT. You cannot draw, and supposedly, you don't practice drawing, you've never tried to draw seriously. Therefore, even if the animation is fucking ugly and eye-burning, it doesn't bug you. However, for artists (which dominate the mature audiences still into cartoons), pseudo-realistic Hanna Barbera stuff of the 80s is atrocious and a crime against animation and something that shouldn't have ever existed. 2. Why do you even watch animated shows then if you don't give a damn about the quality of the artwork? I assure you there are tons of live action TV shows that have just as great of a "story and concept behind it". 3. John K writes his blog for people that want to learn to draw like him, and most of it is dedicated to writing about classic principles of animation, he bashes stuff whenever he wants to give an example of how you should not draw if you chose to go the classic way. 4. Looney Tunes was originally made for adults - they were shown in theatres as a short addition to the main feature. No one ever took children to theatres back then. Saying you "outgrew" Looney Tunes is like saying you grew out of eating chocolate.
 * "Guy above" here again. The reason I watch animated shows is the same reason I watch live-action shows like CSI, namely that they have a story and concept that appeal to me. Why should I only watch one or the other? As for outgrowing Looney Tunes, perhaps it would be better for me to say that I just lost interest in it and it doesn't appeal to me anymore.
 * I aspire to go into animation, and I can draw. However, unlike John K., I value the writing of an animated production over the visuals. One thing one must consider is that the opinions of a specialist will always be different from the opinions of the mainstream. Good writing carries an animated show's ratings far more than the visuals. Some key examples are The Simpsons, South Park, Crayon Shin Chan, and the Peanuts animated productions. All of them were created and supervised by people with no background in art, and all of them have been consistent ratings champs for the reason that they were carefully and cleverly written. It's quite evident in any ratings chart for any network with successful animated programming, during any time period. For a devoted animator, however, most of their work centers around how something looks. They would naturally be more sensitive to the art of a show than its writing, because they're passionate for the art (which is why they became animators) and because they know more about the art than anything else about cartoons. To them, the wild Looney Tunes, Tex Avery stuff is more fun to watch because they can see the animators' individual work and styles more clearly; and the 80s Hanna-Barbera stuff they loathe with a fiery passion because this was an era when artistic individualism was suppressed. In short, they are watching cartoons for a different reason than you are.
 * "2. Why do you even watch animated shows then if you don't give a damn about the quality of the artwork? I assure you there are tons of live action TV shows that have just as great of a 'story and concept behind it'." So, wait, we need to justify our decision to watch animation as opposed to live action? Who died and made live action the default?


 * A minor thing, but why do they always (and I mean always) draw the Moon disc on the sky so ridiculously gigantic? Like, three or four times larger than normal, and that's the least.
 * Same reason as the kids being tiny from about halfway up this list: Exaggeration. If attention must be drawn to the moon, like when someone's in a romantic mood...or a wolfy mood, the moon will be drawn larger to make sure you, the audience, will pay attention to it.


 * An inquiry of my own, if anyone can answer: Why is there so little overlap between voice actors for American animation and for Japanese animation? That is, guys like Tress MacNeille, Maurice La Marche, Jeff Bennett, Phil La Marr, Tara Strong, and Jim Cummings are absolutely everywhere in American animation. On the other hand, American localization of anime is full of Vic Mignogna, Johnny Yong Bosch, Laura Bailey, Travis Willingham, Kyle Hebert, Michelle Ruff, and Steven Jay Blum. But these guys almost never show up on the other side of animation, if ever. The only people to have lots of experience on both American and Japanese animation I can think of are Yuri Lowenthal and, to a lesser extent, Jennifer Hale. Is it union-related? Are there casting people who are seldom familiar with both groups of voice actors? Are these actors generally suited for one style or another with people who can do both well exceptionally rare? I watch both anime and American animation frequently, and it always feels weird to me that both sides have their own groups and either are largely unaware of the other or don't like to share. (I'd like to hear both sides of this, so this will also be on the Anime Headscratchers page.)
 * The Gap between Californian based voice talent for Video Games and North American Animation is getting smaller than it use to be but only for North American animation as Voice Actors whom are known in Anime English dubs are appearing more frequently in North American Animation. Steven Jay Blum and Kari Wahlgren are the most known examples of this (in which the latter some people even wonder if she is even a Anime VA anymore) however folks like Dave Wittenberg and Yuri Lowenthal are appearing a bit more often as well. Sure there are Californian Anime English Dub Voice Actors whom have had little to no roles in a North American animated show/movie but that is starting to decrease. However the idea of a Voice Actor whom is known in North American animation is still a rarity in Anime English dubs with only a few exceptions such as Cam Clarke (then again he did have a good history with anime ever since the 80s). Issues such as on how North American animation generally have higher budgets than Anime English dubs and on how the Union system is generally more consistent and more likely to treat you better are probably reasons why.
 * However there is a little bit of Values Dissonance here as in Canada especially with studios such as The Ocean Group there is very little to no gap as just about any Voice Actor that has ever worked in places such as Vancouver have been in plenty of Anime English Dubs and North American Animation just about equally. To a much lesser extent the same thing can be said about New York (but to be fair there are a lot more Anime English Dubs than North American Animation voiced in New York).
 * So is it based around location? I've heard about this being the reason why Dan Green works almost exclusively for 4KidsAnimation--because it's the only voice acting studio in New York. I listed the actors above in the initial post because they have all done a LOT of roles and continue to do plenty of voice acting to this day, but with the exception of video game voicing, they've only ever done one or the other. I've actually heard about an American animation voice actor (probably Billy West) lamenting how anime voice actors get big fandoms (especially Vic Mignogna and Johnny Yong Bosch) while guys like him have to stand back quietly and don't get the same kind of name recognition. That's part of why I posed the question. Assuming Billy West did say that, why doesn't he go and audition for FUNimation or Viz Media or Bang Zoom or whatever? He is an extremely talented guy, a true successor to Mel Blanc, so I'm sure anime studios would appreciate his help.
 * Why does every child's show have to have an aesop? It seems like aesops are all some people look for in children's shows. This is understandable if the show is meant to be educational (Barney and Friends, for example), but if the show is simply supposed to be just comedy or action and adventure, why does an aesop have to present somewhere?
 * So parents see it as something other than brain-rotting flickers of light. If they see positive messages in the shows, the'll let their kids watch.
 * Plus, networks often mandate these shows to be educational.