Saints Row (series)/YMMV

YMMV Tropes that span the whole series
"Shaundi My Ex-Boyfriend's a dick."
 * Alternate Character Interpretation: Is the main character a Well-Intentioned Extremist out to clean up Saints Row and protect it from evil corporations or is he a Crazy Awesome Heroic Sociopath out for himself? A Complete Monster? Some combination of all three?
 * The ending of #2 make it clear. The Boss just wants power and money, and all the benefits of those. He's not a good person.
 * Alas, Poor Villain: A couple amidst the Complete Monsters the Player/Boss fought against, but a few stand out.
 * Shogo Akuji comes across as one. Once his father arrives from Japan, his arrogant attitude feels like a complete facade to cover up his internal misery. After all, his father states outright, to Shogo's face, seemingly whenever possible, that he is actively and constantly ashamed of Shogo's very existence as a member of his family. Considering that his  only comes when he confronts Gat and the Boss in a fit of rage after his father mourns not just the loss of his surrogate son (Shogo's second-in-command), but also the fact that all he's left with is Shogo. He says this. To Shogo's face. Left at a Despair Event Horizon, Shogo tries to kill the heads of the Saints, thinking them the cause of all his problems.
 * And, of course, Shogo's fate -- -- is perhaps the best example of Shogo's Alas Poor Villain status. Also a Moral Event Horizon (strange as it sounds) for Johnny and Boss.
 * A bit of an Ensemble Darkhorse for this category, but Maero can qualify as well. He tells Vogel that his reasons for wanting the Saints wiped out isn't because they're stealing from him, encroaching on his territory, etc, but because, "...they killed my girlfriend and crippled my best friend." This is after the Boss initiated the entire conflict.
 * Note that The Boss only scars his ((Maero's)) face in retaliation of the initial deal. The other actions mentioned above didn't happen until after Maero and Jessica
 * Complete Monster: The Boss may border on this (with casual disregard for civilian life, but The General and Mr. Sunshine are this in spades. Their complete lack of regard for human life (including their own gang members) separates them from the more sympathetic gang leaders.
 * Killbane. He has absolutely no problem with murdering his own lackeys solely to fuel his planet-sized ego. Cemented when he.
 * Crazy Awesome: Johnny Gat, the Boss.
 * The games themselves. If the first one was too straight laced the sequel has side missions doing stunts from Jackass and spraying everything with raw sewage. The third game has man canons and a mission where you speed around with a tiger in the passenger seat.
 * Crowning Moment of Awesome: See the appropriate page.
 * Crowning Moment of Funny: See the appropriate page.
 * Crowning Music of Awesome: Always a great selection of licensed music.
 * Ensemble Darkhorse: Johnny Gat, Maero (to a lesser extent), and Shaundi (in the second game at least).
 * Evil Is Sexy: Tanya Winters, who.
 * Flanderization: The first game was a humorous open-world crime game in the vein of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas that was lauded as a legitimate alternative to GTA. The second game emphasized the humor and wackiness more (with trailers taking jabs at GTA's newfound seriousness). The marketing for the third game makes the wackiness and crude humor the main selling point of the game. Whether this is the franchise finding its true voice and stepping out from under GTA's shadow or abandoning what made the first game great, YMMV
 * Funny Aneurysm Moment: When she calls a radio show with a request for her and Maero's anniversary the host says how they're gonna make it. Ay yup.
 * Hilarious in Hindsight. In the second game Shaundi was voiced by Eliza Dushku, and in the third game it's mentioned she really wants to meet the actor who plays Nightblade. Given one of the influence of the character this is amusing.
 * Moral Event Horizon: For the player character after the bonus mission in the second game. Before that point, you can easily convince yourself that you're doing it to stop the violence, return order to the streets, and potentially slow down or stop the drug trade. After the player murders, though, it really sets in that your character does not care about any of this - the city is his/her's, and he'she's going to keep it no matter what. And to top it all off, before you kill him, basically tells you that you've become just as bad as the gangs you fought in the previous game, which is why he left the gang in the first place. Oh, and if you didn't do that, you throw a random bartender into gunfire and blow her corpse up to escape a SWAT team.
 * arguably crossed the Moral Event Horizon as well when he
 * It was the only way, so he argues. Considering the actions Boss gets up to in the sequel, not to mention the fact that they were a vigilante gang of sorts originally, he was dead on the money.
 * Considering how the Boss is characterized in 2,  was entirely justified in his actions. He was terrified that he/she (the Boss) was becoming a monster, and worse,
 * Ironically, Julius seems to have CAUSED the Boss' increased sociopathy. Being in a coma for years at the hands of your beloved mentor can do that. The Boss might have been turning into a monster, but by attempting to kill him, Julius assured that he would be a monster who stood against everything he fought for. And, as pointed out somewhere, there's the fact that he didn't seem to feel that way until after he got arrested...
 * in the second game also counts, as he decides to try and do both of them in.
 * Shogo Akuji crosses the Moral Event Horizon in the second game. Initially presented as a spoiled brat, Shogo wants to show his father that he can handle Boss after the Saints robbed his casino.
 * Likewise. Everything after "Deal with the Saints" was left up to Jyunichi, and Shogo only  after his father all but removed Shogo from power and placed himself at the head of the Ronin with Jyunichi as his right hand.
 * The Brotherhood's crossing of the horizon is an interesting case. They, which definitely gives you motivation to wipe them out. However, it's the main character who drew first blood by  . Had he not pulled that little stunt, this could have never happened. Granted, Maero's offer was a terrible, terrible deal for the Saints, but still... Oh, and you avenge   by
 * Of course, that bit with may possibly be excused on the ground of it being fucking awesome revenge..
 * Boss, even though he isn't involved with the Brotherhood in any way save being a scrimshaw. He even explicitly says that Maero doesn't tell him anything because he doesn't want his best friend to get mixed up in gang violence.
 * And so we have one from each gang there's DJ Veteran Child from the Sons of Samedi. He was already a talented, award-winning DJ, but because he he wanted some good weed, he became one of the top members of the gang. He didn't seem all that violent initially (even confused), but was more than willing to so he can save his own neck, or as Shaundi so succinctly puts it
 * Boss, even though he isn't involved with the Brotherhood in any way save being a scrimshaw. He even explicitly says that Maero doesn't tell him anything because he doesn't want his best friend to get mixed up in gang violence.
 * And so we have one from each gang there's DJ Veteran Child from the Sons of Samedi. He was already a talented, award-winning DJ, but because he he wanted some good weed, he became one of the top members of the gang. He didn't seem all that violent initially (even confused), but was more than willing to so he can save his own neck, or as Shaundi so succinctly puts it


 * In the first game, William Sharp, the uncle of Westside Rollerz leader Joseph Price and the implied brains behind the gang, crosses the Horizon when he  Luckily, you teach him a lesson he'll never forget almost immediately afterward.
 * Motive Decay: The Vice Kings started out as a vigilante team formed to fight back against the atrocities Los Carnales inflicted upon their neighborhood and slowly started down the slippery slope to what they become in the game.
 * It's a bit more complicated than that. Julius  Arguably, though, that action destroys the Saints, causing the Boss to rebuild them as he sees fit, leaving   to be Hoist by His Own Petard.
 * By the time Saints Row 2 comes to pass, it's an aversion: the Boss knows why he wants the Saints back, and it isn't for much of anything nice. You can't decay good will that isn't there.
 * Narm Charm: Most of the Boss' actions in the second game are so over-the-top you shouldn't be able to take them seriously, but they are also so unflinchingly brutal that they manage to be effective nonetheless.
 * Never Live It Down: Johnny's death, and other Saints that have died even when Boss had nothing to do with it are laid at his\her feet a lot.
 * Player Punch:  This game loves cleaning the player's clock.
 * Those all happen on the fourth mission of their respective arcs by the way.
 * The third game slugs you hard
 * The third game also contains
 * Rated "M" for Money: "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Partial Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs and Alcohol." It's not really a game meant for kids.
 * Tear Jerker:
 * Jessica requesting Sister Christian for her and Maero on the radio, seeing as how.
 * Jessica requesting Sister Christian for her and Maero on the radio, seeing as how.

YMMV Tropes exclusive to Saints Row 2
"Ultor FM DJ: "Maybe your friends would want you to fall in a Hole in the Earth."
 * Alternate Character Interpretation:
 * Shogo Akuji - an idiot psychopath gang leader whose father has to come in and clean up his mess, or "Well Done, Son" Guy who wants his father's respect in his own way? Even his attack on  was only after he crossed an apparent Despair Event Horizon when his father not only mourned the death of the man who basically replaced Shogo as a son to him, but mourned because it left him with no one but Shogo to call family.
 * Dane Vogel, CEO of The Ultor Corporation - Corrupt Corporate Executive or Well-Intentioned Extremist?
 * The Boss - An incredibly Badass Heroic Sociopath who truly cares about his/her friends and would risk his/her life for them, or a cruel, just plain sociopathic, borderline Complete Monster? Fan reactions are varied.
 * The Saints - The Saints as a gang were started to protect Saints Row from the waging gang war. Many debate whether they are still true to such ideals however.
 * By the second game, they've more or less crossed the Moral Event Horizon and became just as bad (if not worse) than the gangs they war against - pushing drugs, killing cops, pimping hos and taking over neighborhoods. To put it in the Boss' words: "This is our city; We can do whatever the fuck we want."
 * They were already doing those things in the first game -- saving the city doesn't come free or easy.
 * The irony is, THEY'RE STILL BETTER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE.
 * Is it better? Ultor, while focusing on making money would have ultimately created a nice (if expensive) place to live. Whereas with the Saints... Their founder Julius was disgusted with the saints in the second game: "The Saints didn't solve a goddamned thing. All we did is become Vice Kings who wore purple."
 * Listen to the ads for Ultor products on the radio sometime -- real estate dangerously close to a nuclear power plant which makes Chernobyl look safe by comparison, medication for night terrors with a terrifying list of side effects including night terrors, and treatment for unruly children that can render them permanently mute. Not to mention what they pull in the DLC or in Red Faction -- Stillwater under Ultor would have only have seemed like a nice place on the surface, while being an absolute nightmare if you dig deeper.
 * A little bit of Fridge Horror on that point. The Third reveals that after the events in 2, the Saints and Ultor have merged to become the Saints-Ultor Media Group. It's not hard to imagine the Saints eventually dying off or shedding their image, just becoming Ultor. In other words, maybe the reason why Ultor is such a bastard organization in Red Faction is because they used to be a criminal organization.
 * Crosses the Line Twice: Yes, some of Boss's actions in the sequel are pretty bad, but like the rest of the game, they're so over the top you can't help but laugh and/or cheer.
 * Dude, Not Funny: A number of fans were not amused by the Boss's increased sociopathy.
 * Game Breaker: It's very easy to get a Bear, an armored vehicle with mounted minigun, early in the game, and mod it for extra durability and speed. This becomes an infinity+ 1 ride for the many situations it's available in.
 * Completing the Hitman diversion gets you infinite ammunition for assault rifles. For some reason, this also gives you infinite ammo for a sniper rifle that can destroy literally any vehicle in the game with just one magazine worth of bullets.
 * Well... Actually... The rifle it's based on was designed for this sort of thing.
 * Growing the Beard: The first game was an ultra-narmy ripoff of GTA San Andreas. The second game, while it still bites close to Rockstar's work, has much better gameplay (think San Andreas 2.0, compared to GTAIV's realism) and a very creative flow to its side missions, and watching your player character change from a generic avatar to an over-the-top Heroic Sociopath is very engaging.
 * He's Just Hiding: Some fans needed a lot of convincing that.
 * Despite the fact that they even left in a brief view of.
 * The same can be said for.
 * as well.
 * Even . The latter vows revenge   and the former.
 * Hilarious in Hindsight: This is Ultor's logo in Saints Row 2. This is Wal-Mart's new-style logo released a year after the game came out.
 * After, Gen X gets bought out by Ultor and turned into Ultor FM.
 * This line when a caller says he wants her to pick a song for the friends he hates:

Caller: "Uhh, what?""


 * Nightmare Fuel - One of the villains is killed via . No matter what this villain did (more specifically, what he ordered be done), it's still unsettling.
 * Especially when Johnny later remarks with something along the lines of  I love Johnny, I do, but... * shudder*
 * Serial Numbers Filed Off: The first was noted for being a total GTA clone. Yet the second game got praised for doing it well, and taking some of the elements Up to Eleven.
 * Shipper on Deck: A random female pedestrian admits to shipping Shaundi/Aisha and saying "They're going to be together forever!"
 * And The Boss sometimes makes comments implying they ship Pierce and Shaundi.
 * Straw Man Has a Point: Julius. It's a wonder Boss didn't overload the power plant a nuke Stillwater for the lulz, did Troy really expect him not to be killed if he tried to convince his protege to stop?
 * Given the Boss just shrugged and let Troy off for being the mole, it seems it was the fact that Julius PERSONALLY betrayed him that offends the Boss.
 * Or with the fact that Troy made up for this by keeping Boss on life support for 5 years and stopping the prison guards from regulary beating up Johnny.
 * Surprisingly Improved Sequel: Although SR1 got mostly decent reviews, it was generally regarded as "just another GTA clone", with an overall reception split between "This is a cheap GTA ripoff" and "This is a cheap GTA ripoff... but they made some improvements and it's actually not that bad." in contrast, the sequel has gained almost universal critical acclaim (Yahtzee ADORES AND LOVES it) and been regarded as not only far better than the original, but also a worthy rival to the GTA series by many.
 * To be fair, just SR2 happened to take the batshit insane route at the same time GTA IV started to divide critics for taking a more restrained approach to the Wide Open Sandbox "crim sim".
 * That One Mission: Salting the Earth... Again from the Ultor side. You have to drive a car to a dock to pick up a boat to drive it to a yacht. Not too difficult? Once you get in the boat (which is a little speedboat), Ultor sends an attack helicopter with homing missiles after you. There's no way to make it through there and you just have to get lucky and hope his missiles miss, which is very unlikely. Sometimes, the copter will send the missiles early to taunt you.
 * Worse when you die anywhere in the mission, it sends you back to the Saints Hideout, meaning you have to start EVERYTHING again.
 * Though it get's easier if you go on land again after manning the boat and shoot down the helicopter, before racing to the yacht.
 * That One Sidequest: Three words: Blue Collar Achievement. For example, three more words: Tow Truck Diversion. Between the clunky, all-over-the-place steering, the time limit, the inability to fix your truck (the message "You can't visit here right now" when you try to go to Rim Jobs might as well be an image of a middle finger), and the fact that it doesn't save your progress (you blew up at Level 9? Tough shit! Back to start!) it's easily the most hated part of Saints 2, hell, maybe even the whole series. Though it is doable, just time consuming and very tedious.
 * Heli Assault Level 6 has you flying a helicopter to defend a van through tightly packed skyscrapers and mazes of highways. The most annoying part is that bumping into something usually sends your helicopter bouncing off in the opposite direction at top speed, which usually means you're going to hit something else. Also, your rocket launchers can get knocked off, and the machine gun is nowhere near as effective. Last but not least, somehow, the rival gangs you are up against also has attack choppers, and you have no idea where they will come from until a missile just struck your tail. What's worse, you can only survive three hits max. There's at least three of them in level 6 (though granted, one of them concentrates only on the car).
 * Nuclear Plant Mayhem levels 4-6. Those are sidequests you'd seriously want to tear your hair off, specially if playing under 'Hardcore' difficulty.
 * The Drug Dealing levels from 5 onwards are practically luck based.
 * Escort, in which you drive two people (who are having sex in the back seat) around the city while avoiding newsvans, their significant others, and private investigators, is one of the most loathed activities in the series. 1: The damned newsvans are inexplicably fast, come at you in numbers, and just torment you to no end. 2: Your clients will give you requests that range from killing targets, causing damage to other cars with your vehicle, and even driving halfway across the city to... the XXX theater, or some goddamned thing. All while you're trying to avoid those fucking news vans. 3: When they're not making sex noises, your clients won't stop whining at you. 4: It doesn't even make sense. If they're so damned worried about ending up on the news, why the fuck are they screwing in the backseat of a car that they're making drive all around the damn city?! If it sounds extremely frustrating and stupid, that's because it is.
 * What an Idiot!: All  had to do was be a little more polite and argue his case a little better, and an entire third of the game could have been avoided, including some truly ugly deaths. And, the funny thing is, if you play the other two gang stories first, you're actually larger than his gang. Its like a lizard making a deal with a crocodile to catch a chicken, and offering a wing in return.
 * Speaking of deals, there is, arguably his gang's most capable man. I get it, he wanted to prove he could lead the gang/show his father he was a man. He attempts to pull a Uriah Gambit that ends up failing spectacularly and cripples   past the point of no return, or at least gives them a big push in that direction. Way to go,   you idiot.

YMMV Tropes exclusive to Saints Row The Third

 * Awesome Music: The soundtrack for the game is greater, but two examples stand out for just how great they went with the times they were played: Joe Esposito's You're The Best, played during Murderbrawl XXXI while fighting Luchadores off of Angel with a chainsaw; and Bonnie Tyler's I Need a Hero, an extended version of which played during Three Way.
 * A third is Kanye West's Power. Not only does it introduce a early Crowning Moment of Awesome, few songs are more fitting of the character.
 * In the mission "The Belgian Problem",  is awesome enough, but what really seals the deal? You do it while this rocks on in the background. The violins make it especially powerful.
 * Big Lipped Alligator Moment The last mission . It might qualify as a Gainax Ending as well
 * Dude, Not Funny: The Ho Boat, wherein you, has received quite a bit of flak.
 * The dev team seems to acknowledged that this wasn't meant to be perceived as a good thing. The achievement asks if what you decided has left you, "happy with yourself."
 * One mission has the Boss trying to get to Killbane by eliminating his opponents for a wrestling match. The first target is done away with by making it look like he's killed a number of people before killing himself. The unfunny part kicks in with several possible mentions of steroids and how people will blame the killings on roid rage.
 * Not everyone thinks furries are Acceptable Targets.
 * Fetish Fuel: The Oleg x Kinzie ship for many people, due to Huge Guy, Tiny Girl.
 * Game Breaker: The Bear returns from Saints Row 2 and is still extremly tough. It's machine gun can blow up enemy vehicles fair quickly, making Snatch and Traffic missions almost too easy. Unlike the Tanks it counts as vehicle and can use the Nitro ability. While marked as unupgradable, you can still upgrade it via a trick.
 * The .45 Shepard also can be seen as that. Pistol upgrades are the cheapest in the game and the Shepard when fully upgraded can kill almost anything in a few hits.
 * Good Bad Bugs: It's possible to upgrade vehicles which are marked unupgradable like police vehicles, APCs and unique vehicles, by driving a normal car into a Rim Jobs, highlight a special vehicle in the garage and cancel causing said vehicle to appear in the upgrade menu. This includes changing the color of the virtual X-2 cycle to something else, like red.
 * Sometimes, picking up a De4th Blossom will result in the player being able to use the entire ammo supply without without having to reload.
 * HSQ: One per mission as a goal set by the developers themselves.
 * Love Makes You Evil:
 * Narm Charm: Intentional example in the later half of
 * Nightmare Fuel: The And then Boss think's s\he's about to turn into a zombie Viola retorts to stop being such a drama queen.
 * The lengths STAG go to in order to stop the Saints. They are perfectly willing to commit terrorist acts to make them look bad, and if it takes they try and destroy Steelport. If Boss survives this s\he does go terrorist.
 * The rather brutal Neck Snap murder of  by Killbane.
 * Pet the Dog:
 * They Changed It, Now It Sucks: Some people aren't thrilled about Shaundi's new look, personality and new voice actor. When she was originally played by Eliza Dushku it's a big pair of heels to fill. Some would say she does a admirable job of portraying a more mature Shaundi, but they couldn't have gotten a similar voice actress and retained some of the character's personality? Some actually thought she was a new character at first until they realized she was 'the pothead chick with the dreads' from SR2.
 * Took a Level in Jerkass: Others have attributed their hate more towards her shift in personality, namely from being a carefree druggie with a humorous snark attitude to a "stick up the ass" gun-toting serious bitch.
 * The change or removal of a number of elements of the game also lead to this. You can no longer customize your clothing in layers, eat, drink, or smoke, or customize your cribs (Or even enter some of them), and as said above how you can't replay missions or re-watch scenes.
 * That One Sidequest: Snatch. Possibly even moreso than Escort (see Saints Row 2 entry above for why that one's so reviled), due to the hos you need to pick up sometimes getting hung up walking around the car instead of getting in the car while you have an entire army of gang members shooting at you. Even with a fully upgraded vehicle, it may not be durable enough to withstand all the bullets being thrown at you. Worse off, if you're not careful and stay parked too long trying to get one of the hos to get in the car already, an enemy gang member might pull you out of the car, causing them to exit and you losing even more valuable seconds trying to get them in the car in the first place and right the hell out of the group of gang members trying to kill you all. Fuck Snatch.
 * The Scrappy: Each of the new NPCs have recieved criticism or hate from some corners of the fandom, but the one everyone universally hates the most is Angel. But, then again, when you're a former wrestler who claims the player isn't tough enough to fight Killbane, even after they've flown through a Fucking plane, took on the army and won, and took down possibly hundreds of gangbangers (And if you want, with your bare hands), and that a big deal is made about how only he can beat Killbane, only to get thrown from the ring when he actually gets a rematch, leaving you to fight him in, what is a pretty easy bossfight, and when they seem to use Insane Troll Logic, people tend to hate you. Killbane to a lesser degree is also pretty hated, again for being a pretty easy boss in the two times you fight him. And, the change in Shaundi's personality caused many to dislike her new characterization.
 * Tough Act to Follow / Contested Sequel: Saints Row 2 was very well-liked and had a lot going for it. The majority of the complaints that crop up about Saints Row the Third are in context to the second game; "the second game had more secret areas," "clothing customization was better there," etc. If you put the second game completely out of your mind or never played it to begin with, The Third only has a few flaws and is still fun either way. Saints Row 2 was a really tough act to follow.
 * The change or removal of a number of elements of the game also lead to this. You can no longer customize your clothing in layers, eat, drink, or smoke, or customize your cribs (Or even enter some of them), and as said above how you can't replay missions or re-watch scenes.
 * That One Sidequest: Snatch. Possibly even moreso than Escort (see Saints Row 2 entry above for why that one's so reviled), due to the hos you need to pick up sometimes getting hung up walking around the car instead of getting in the car while you have an entire army of gang members shooting at you. Even with a fully upgraded vehicle, it may not be durable enough to withstand all the bullets being thrown at you. Worse off, if you're not careful and stay parked too long trying to get one of the hos to get in the car already, an enemy gang member might pull you out of the car, causing them to exit and you losing even more valuable seconds trying to get them in the car in the first place and right the hell out of the group of gang members trying to kill you all. Fuck Snatch.
 * The Scrappy: Each of the new NPCs have recieved criticism or hate from some corners of the fandom, but the one everyone universally hates the most is Angel. But, then again, when you're a former wrestler who claims the player isn't tough enough to fight Killbane, even after they've flown through a Fucking plane, took on the army and won, and took down possibly hundreds of gangbangers (And if you want, with your bare hands), and that a big deal is made about how only he can beat Killbane, only to get thrown from the ring when he actually gets a rematch, leaving you to fight him in, what is a pretty easy bossfight, and when they seem to use Insane Troll Logic, people tend to hate you. Killbane to a lesser degree is also pretty hated, again for being a pretty easy boss in the two times you fight him. And, the change in Shaundi's personality caused many to dislike her new characterization.
 * Tough Act to Follow / Contested Sequel: Saints Row 2 was very well-liked and had a lot going for it. The majority of the complaints that crop up about Saints Row the Third are in context to the second game; "the second game had more secret areas," "clothing customization was better there," etc. If you put the second game completely out of your mind or never played it to begin with, The Third only has a few flaws and is still fun either way. Saints Row 2 was a really tough act to follow.