Special:Badtitle/NS90:User talk:NoxiousSludge/Are we feeling better now?/reply (4)

I think Cyrus, Ghetsis, AND Lysandre all had heinous end goals but they were despicable for different reasons. Cyrus wanted a world where no one had any spirit, thus they wouldn't be able to feel anything or think any thoughts that they could act upon with free will - a horrific future, but one in which no one would ever realize it was so because they'd feel no pain or sorrow. Ghetsis' world would be nothing BUT pain and sorrow for all the people without Pokemon, the people he'd get to enslave and oppress through his special privileges. And Lysandre flat out wanted to kill a lot of people, which is of course a terrible thing, but the games' standards are against him being seen as irredeemable since AZ, an actual successful mass murderer, is portrayed in a sympathetic and redeemed light in the same game.

Cyrus is actually the best example I can use when talking about the franchise's heinous standard. In my mind, he IS the most objectively heinous human villain in the franchise, especially due to my own spiritual beliefs that he stands against. And yet he's NOT pure evil since there are a few redeeming factors to be found in him, and he got redeemed in TWO different manga series, meaning two different writers saw the character as not being beyond hope of redemption. So within this franchise and by it's standards, even a guy who does the things Cyrus did can be redeemed so long as his extremism came from a place of good intentions and he's not so far gone that he can't be made to see how wrong he is. Meanwhile you have Charon, a lowly scientist who does nothing close to what Cyrus does, but he does everything he does out of greed, pride, and self interest, and thus he's never been redeemed anywhere in the franchise, and in DPA he's even made a Complete Monster in a series that also features Cyrus and his extremely heinous goals and actions AND is one of the two manga that redeems him in spite of that. While the anime didn't redeem Cyrus, the saga Cyrus was featured in also had Hunter J, and Grings Kodai in it's last movie - both of who are Complete Monsters motivated by purely selfish goals, and they're even less redeemable than anime!Cyrus. And of course the games have Ghetsis, who's shown to be more evil and less redeemable than Cyrus from the previous generation was.

And I've said before that Cyrus was planning to screw Team Galactic over in the end since he wanted to be solo God of the new universe and his team was tools to achieve his ends and that is deplorable of him, but he still had a delusion of altruism for the rest of the world and was even quite civil and complimentary of your character during that same scene. Simply put, Cyrus fails at least five points of this wiki's criteria for the trope (not portrayed in any positive way, other characters fear and hate him, arguably his Freudian Excuse, devoid of altruistic qualities, and never redeemed or doesn't have the possibility of redemption) and thus cannot qualify regardless of how you and others might view him. Game Cyrus and Anime Cyrus, who weren't redeemed, being the trope might be good for YMMV, but the character overall can't make the cut.

And who is the other qualifier?