The Lion King/Fridge

Fridge Brilliance
"Zira: You betrayed your pride -- betrayed Scar! Kovu: I want nothing more to do with him! Zira: You cannot escape it! Nuka is dead because of YOU! You killed your own brother!"
 * It's a small one, but during the stampede scene (when Mufasa accidentally lets go of Simba) we see a Wildebeest fall down seconds before Mufasa snatches him up. Later, when Simba is searching for his father, a lone Wildebeest trots off into the distance... The only way he could have fallen so behind is if he had fallen down earlier.
 * Two of these moments hit me about The Lion King, the other night:
 * 1) Most everyone I know, including myself, were confused at how ineffectual and whiny Scar became when he became king. However, look at how he treats his role as king to how Cub Simba treats it during his "I Just Can't Wait to be King" musical number; pretty similar, isn't it, with all that talk of "I'm king, I can do whatever I want"? Scar's showing as king is meant to be the logical extreme of that belief, focusing on the benefits of a role without thinking of or wanting any of the responsibilities, and how one would flounder under the pressure, as a result.
 * 2) Scar's plan to ascend the throne is pretty standard: kill Mufasa and Simba, win over pride by default. Typical movie villain evil plot, right? But hold on! The whole theme of the movie is the "circle of life" and everyone's roles in it, and guess how real lions usurp the throne of a pride? That's right: they kill (or maim) the head lion and kill the cubs (which curiously has the added effect of snapping the lionesses back into heat...which also fits the "Scar tries to rape Nala" scene in the Broadway musical). So, even in villainy, Scar's satisfying the great "circle of life", and makes his plot seem both sympathetic (as he's just as much a slave to the circle as everyone else) and creepy-sinister (Disney using a natural phenomenon as an evil act? My god, they're more devious than we previously imagined!). --Synjo Deonecros
 * Here's the thing, in real life, Lions that challenge the head lion for the throne do so in a pitched fight and both lions know its happening and the pride knows it. Scar killed Mufasa not in a fight for control, but by ambushing him and throwing him to his death, then manuplated Simba into running off. He then proceeded to lie to the rest of the pride about it. So it wasn't 'nature', he didn't give Mufasa any chance at all where in nature, they'd fight for that title one on one (or two on one, since sometimes brother males will fight together against another). And he lied, the other lions thought their beloved king had been killed in an accident and Scar was merely accepting a right, then find out Scar killed his brother in a cowardly attack and lied for years about it. So it wasn't so much that he did it, it was how he did it.
 * Scar chose Zira's youngest son to be his successor rather than her oldest, and who would be more likely than Scar to despise the tradition of automatically giving the elder brother preference over the youngest?
 * Kovu freaked out when Zira told him "You've killed your own brother!", not only because his brother was dead, but because that's exactly what Scar did.
 * Except that it actually applies to Scar, but not to Kovu.
 * Yes, but the mere idea of Kovu being his older brother's killer, whether he was or wasn't, scared him more because it's what Scar did, which is why he freaked out like he did. The fact that Kovu didn't kill his brother isn't the point, it's the idea of it, the accusation against him, that freaked him out.
 * Also, though in terms of Shakespeare plays this is more commonly compared to Hamlet, an arguably almost-as-valid, but less common comparison is that to Macbeth,
 * I had two regarding The Lion King's Shakespearean inspiration (Kimba notwithstanding). Many years after the film's initial theatrical release, I just went OH! Hamlet!, but it wasn't until several years after the release of The Lion King 1 1/2 that I just suddenly went OH! Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead! -- Seaside Messenger
 * I had that epiphany a few years ago: Simba = Hamlet, Nala = Ophelia and possible Horatio, Mufasa = The Ghost (King Hamlet), Sarabi = Queen Gertrude, Scar = Claudius, Hyenas = Polonius (evil advisers/henchmen), Timon and Pumbaa = Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (with a does of the gravdiggers as well--see their discussion with Simba about the night sky/afterlife). To take this further, Simba has a Hamlet-like reverie about death and avenging his father when Nala finds him and Rafiki shows him his father's ghost. -- Trombone Child
 * You missed that Simba's Pride is Romeo and Juliet.
 * The second half of The Lion King is quite like Macbeth, arguably.
 * Second half nothing, Scar's role in the movie is a lot like Macbeth's role in the play Macbeth,
 * Scar also is a lot like Richard III. He's very charismatic to an extent that the audience is encouraged to root for him in the beginning of the story, but once he gets power, he's a tyrant and an awful ruler. Incidentally, while the above associates the Hyenas with Polonius, Zazu also occupies that role, being the advisor/prime minister who is a comical blowhard.
 * Someone could also argue that Simba's Pride is, at least in the beginning, Macbeth. Kovi is Macbeth, Zira is Lady Macbeth. Zira convinces Kovu to kill Simba (Duncan) and take over. Except that he ends up falling in love with Kiara and killing his own brother (Banquo).
 * Regarding the sequel, The Lion King II - Simba's Pride, it always bothered me, even in middle school, that the message of the movie was obviously about race, discrimination, equality, blah blah. There was the light-coloured lions reigning over the dark-coloured lions. I was very disappointed and thought it was much too unoriginal and transparent of a plot, and didactic. The other day while I was ranting about this messy movie to one of my friends, I brought up the fact that Zira, the queen of the dark lions, would have been one of the "African-American" lions as well, but had been brought down as well; I complained that they hadn't even done the aesop right. Then I realized the crucial difference between Zira and the other dark lions that survived - Zira was the one breeding hate in Kovu's heart, teaching him to assume that Pridelanders would do bad things to him for no reason. And, in the end, it was Zira's hate for the Pridelanders that caused her death; Kiara had tried to save her life, and her discriminatory attitude against light-coloured lions had killed her. The message isn't only that "white people are horrible to black people and should know better" - it is also that non-whites shouldn't be so quick to make demons of people who wish them no harm.
 * I always thought the Outlanders were lighter-colored..... and thus never saw it this way at all.
 * Yes, it's actually less about racism and more about stereotypes. The Outlanders are lighter colored, but in the sense that the color of their coats is less vibrant than the healthy Pridelanders, which is to be expected when they have less food. Furthermore, the Outlanders aren't exactly innocent; the reason that they were banished was because they supported Scar, as opposed to African-Americans or other minorities who obviously did nothing wrong. The point is that both sides learn to put aside the past and let go of their resentment.
 * One thing User:Loracarol realized about the second movie was that- normally- the villains all wear black/some variation of black/dark colors to show that they are the villains. But lions don't wear clothing, meaning that the bad lions have to have darker fur. The fact that most of the lionessess  and subvert that trope just makes it even better.
 * Lots of people complain about how Simba seemed to turn into a complete jerk in the sequel, being way too overprotective of Kiara and hating on the Outlanders. But consider his own history with Scar - the guy murdered Simba's dad, tried to kill him, ruined the Pridelands, and more or less enslaved and starved his pride. And then he finds a group of lions who at least partially think Scar is fantastic. His banishing them wasn't just him being a jerk, it was a case of It's Personal! As for his daughter, remember how young Simba's impulsive behavior caused so much danger in his life? (The hyenas, the death of his father, etc) Nala says that Kiara is like Simba was. So he is remembering his own past and trying to save Kiara from similar dangerous things happening to her.
 * Another reason why Simba was so protective, is that now he's a father. He's going to protect his kid just like his dad did. But when his dad died, and he thought it was his fault, that was the worst time of his life. If Kiara got in trouble, he would save her. And if he died saving her, wouldn't she think it was her fault? And wouldn't that hurt her just as much as it had hurt him? He doesn't want her to get in danger, so he doesn't have to save her, and she doesn't have to bear that guilt if he dies because of it. -- Werebunny131
 * Agree with all of this 100%. It's why Simba's characterization in the sequel never seemed off to me, though obviously it was frustrating to watch.
 * I've always agreed with the above logic but there's something more. If Kopa really did exist, what happened to him? He must have died somewhere along the way. Not only does Simba not want Kiara to make the same mistakes he did, he didn't want to go through with losing another cub.
 * As some of you know, Jim Cummings had to do the last chorus of "Be Prepared" in the Lion King, since Jeremy Irons had strained his voice (or something like that, I dunno). I didn't notice when I was a kid watching it, but playing it like 20-30 times on YouTube made me realize: Scar may have been beginning to lose his sanity during this musical number, and the sudden change in tone could have illustrated that. This serves to explain why the Pride Lands went to hell in a hand-basket during the time Timon and Pumbaa raised Simba; any clan with a psychopath for a ruler is doomed to failure. It also explains why Scar confesses that he did in fact kill Mufasa: he's lost it. He realized he wasn't fit to rule and couldn't do anything about it, so he figured he'd at least take the rightful ruler down (and likely the entire society of the Pride Lands) with him. Why? He doesn't need a reason, he's NUTS! -- Numbuh 214
 * Considering Jim Cummings was the voice of the insane Ed...
 * Even better, Be Prepared pretty clearly compares Scar to Hitler (what with the goosestepping hyenas) and that hint of crazy overconfidence is one of the most well-known parts of Hitler's personality.
 * Zira's and Kovu's confrontation after Nuka's death is a lot more horrible for kovu than I ever thought:


 * Ever since I was a kid, I naturally thought that when Zira said "You cannot escape it!", she simply meant escaping the guilt of killing his brother. Maybe, but I recently re-watched it and suddenly remembered that Scar killed his own brother, too! This made me realize that Zira was telling Kovu that he was Not So Different from the villain he just said he wants nothing more to do with! In her eyes, he "cannot escape" his connection with Scar and his destiny as Scar's heir. Kovu's just revealed his Heel Face Turn, and Zira's trying to crush his hopes by claiming that he's still just like Scar! How can he renounce his succession to Scar's evil legacy after doing exactly what Scar did... in the story he just heard off-screen from Simba right before the ambush?! It wasn't any lingering irrational guilt that made Kovu run away shouting "NO!" -- it was the fear of being Not So Different from Scar. No wonder he saw Scar's reflection shortly afterwards and felt there was no hope for his redemption! Zira really is a magnificently manipulative bitch! ~ Lale
 * Utterly brilliant, and IMO completely accurate.
 * Shenzi and Banzai are not brother and sister. There are a buttload of reasons for this, but they include -
 * 1) No canonical material, anywhere, ever mentions them as brother and sister, although on rare occasions they are mentioned as 'friends'. Considering how tightly Disney holds a reign on all works with the name 'Disney' on it, you'd think somebody would have mentioned it somewhere if they were brother and sister.
 * 2) There's the line "Now wasn't it her mom ate your dad" from Shenzi to Banzai in the musical. Considering Disney's incest and adultery free logic, this means Shenzi's parents are not Banzai's parents. This too would have been monitored by Disney.
 * 3) Watch their behaviour in the movies and the television series. It's highly humanised, just like all animals in the movie. Shenzi and Banzai don't talk to each other like brother and sister, and they don't act like brother and sister. Banzai and Ed, on the other hand, have a much more brotherly relationship, in that they're constantly trying to beat each other up. Banzai calls Shenzi things like 'baby' and 'girlfriend'. No matter how close you are to your siblings, you don't speak that way with them.
 * 4) An official comic series dedicated to The Lion King once had a puzzle in which you had to work out the hyenas ages. Apparently Banzai and Ed are both a year older than Shenzi. That doesn't throw brother and sisterness out of the window but it puts even more strain on the idea.
 * 5) In real life, Banzai and Ed would probably not even from the same clan as Shenzi - male hyenas get thrown out shortly after maturing sexually, and have to move to another clan, while females stick around. It helps prevent inbreeding.
 * 6) Banzai seems to have some status in the clan. To have any sort of status in a clan, male hyenas need to get in really close with high-ranking females. Harley Quinn Hyenaholic
 * At the very end of The Lion King II, Simba says to the formerly banished lionesses "Let's ALL go home!", but he says it in an Double Entendre sort of way. This makes a lot more sense if you consider the relationship between the head lion of a pride and his lionesses... -- Zankou
 * In short, while Nala is Simba's queen, the other lionesses, save for Sarabi, are his concubines.
 * I didn't get that impression at all. Way too many people here see sexual stuff that just isn't there.
 * The sequel introduces a strange problem that is partly Fridge Brilliance and partly Fridge Horror -- Scar had a pride of Outlanders who would have gladly accepted him as king. And Simba would have spared him if he'd simply cut his losses and walked away. He could have gone to the other pride, bided his time, and made a second attempt -- but for Scar it was the Pridelands or nothing. He was so obsessed with having that kingdom and getting revenge on his brother's family that he effectively committed suicide.
 * "Be Prepared" is musical propaganda for the benefit of Scar's army of hyenas (with a Shout-Out to Those Wacky Nazis). What if the main trio's seemingly inane questions like "And where do we feature?" were all part of the show, and they were already in on the plot to kill Mufasa?
 * "Be Prepared" has more than that. There's a line with an awesome double meaning. Scar declares becoming king is "at last being given my dues, and in justice deliciously squared", since to him it's a lapse of justice that he's not king and he will "square" it and set it right by killing Mufasa. However, due to the speed of the singing (it's in the more frenzied part of the song at the end), the listener hears it as "injustice, deliciously squared" as in will be a perfectly executed injustice. It's really a good looking to how Scar sees the world as about him.
 * Feel free to laugh at me for this, but I first watched Lion King 2 about ten years ago, and I just realized last week why everyone kept talking about how Kovu wasn't actually Scar's biological son. -Mersang
 * I just got one from "The Six New Adventures of The Lion King" and "Simba's Pride". Timon's assumption the cub is male in the movie could refer to Kopa from the book! That made the scene ten times funnier for me. -Senshi Sun
 * From the Broadway play: When Simba sings "Endless Night", he says "Where has the starlight gone?" Remember what Mufasa tells Simba about the stars?
 * The final battle of Simba and Scar is not just for control of the Pride Lands, it's a final trial by fire for Simba with becomes a triumph for the young lion not simply because he defeats the usurper, but he does it differently from his father's style. Whereas Mufusa fights with passion and fury, Simba relies more on his intelligence; namely when Scar leaps at him, Simba manages to stay calm and position his hind legs for a defensive judo-like move to throw him off.
 * This is also important because Scar always ran on the idea that he should rule because Mufasa was stronger but he was smarter. Simba using his head helps undermine that argument.
 * At the beginning, when Zazu tells Scar that Mufasa is coming to see him, Scar says "Now, look, Zazu, you've made me lose my lunch.". He was obviously referring to the mouse he was holding, but it's also referring to Mufasa's coming. "Losing your lunch" means getting sick, so Scar was getting sick of Mufasa. This is obvious when Scar has apparently made a law against mentioning Mufasa by name.
 * Scar's attacking Simba seems like a dirty method to kill Simba to keep kinghood after begging for his life. However, when listening to the dialogue, Simba tells him to "Run, Run away, Scar, and never, ever return," virtually the exact same line Scar told Simba after the stampede. Remembering what happened immediately after Scar told him to leave and never come back (ie, siccing the Hyenas to kill him), the conclusion can be made that Scar feared that Simba would most likely do something very similar after telling him to flee, which would likewise possibly mean that he was not simply fighting to retain his position as king, but he's actually fighting for survival.

Fridge Horror
"Simba: Scar couldn't let go of his hate... and in the end, it destroyed him."
 * Whatever did happen to Mufasa's body? Think about this for a second. The Hyenas chased Simba out of the Pridelands, and supposedly came back to where the chase started. Given the Hyenas eating habits (which is not at all altered by the movie), and that Scar is their boss, it's not hard to think he allowed them to eat Mufasa's corpse. Considering that Mufasa was trampled to death, his body may not be all that worse for wear.
 * Averted in the musical, in which the lionesses place his body on a bier and mourn over it.
 * There is also the possibility that a way was found for Mufasa to go back to nature and become part of the great Circle of Life. Maybe after the mourning on the bier is over, the lionesses took his corpse to the fields to decompose and become the grass that the antelope would eat, as he said in an earlier part of the movie to Simba?
 * In the Game Boy port of the video game, the "Cub" difficulty ends at the Stampede level. There's only a few possibilities of what could happen, and none of them are good.
 * There is another way to think about it. In the film, when the stampede ends, Simba sees his father's dead body, Scar tells the cub that it was his fault Mufasa died, and he is promptly banished from the Pridelands and chased by bloodthirsty hyenas into the desert, where he thinks he will surely die. This is the exact moment where Simba's childhood and innocence died. He is no longer a cub.
 * If we assume that Nuka is Scar's son, then Simba caused the death of Nuka's father. Simba killed a king, leaving the young prince fatherless, then forced the young prince to run away and never return.
 * Simba didn't kill Scar, the hyenas did, and when Scar asked if he would kill him, he said "No, Scar. I'm not like you." Also, his line from his talk with Kovu:


 * That chameleon young Simba kept growling at couldn't run very fast. Seconds later, there's a stampede...
 * And here we all thought there weren't enough horrible (and Fridge-Horrible) things about the stampede ...
 * After Timon & Pumba revive young Simba after finding him unconscious in the desert ("You almost died!"), the depressed cub's immediate reaction is to attempt to head straight back into the desert. If 'Hakuna Matata' hadn't happened, the movie might've been a whole lot shorter.
 * After the hyenas killed Scar, there was still the little problem of half the pridelands being on fire. Even though heavy rain extinguished the fire a few minutes later, many hyenas probably didn't make it to safety without severe burns, let alone injuries from smoke inhalation. Young cubs would be especially susceptible to the latter, and would have difficulty outrunning the flames.
 * The "Be Prepared" song from The Lion King. Sure, scary hyenas playing with skeletons in steam and fiery colors is Nightmare Fuel by itself, but that one parade scene really hits home after you've learned a little about history.
 * Now, knowing what the parade scene was based on, watch it in German.
 * Yeah, then try watching it in Hebrew, and it gets even worse.
 * Also, this Troper is of the opinion that if you didn't watch the film, it looks like the hyenas are EATING ONE OF THEIR OWN at the beginning!
 * The hyenas ate Scar. Eternal Nightmare Fuel.
 * It's even worse if you know how hyenas "hunt". They've been known to eat things alive, and their jaws are rather powerful, so think of all the pain you could suffer before dying. Not to forget the blazing heat in that scene, due to the close fire.
 * I heard that hyenas primarily eat their prey alive, and they consume the ENTIRE body, bones and all.
 * Scar WAS the bad guy. Scar killed an innocent lion and framed his nephew.
 * A minor one. Zazu was imprisoned inside a ribcage. Its length and girth were approximately similar to that of... Mufasa. Scar didn't just kill his brother, he defiled his remains.
 * What's worse is that he probably got the hyenas to prepare his remains...
 * Look at that scene again. At one point, Scar uses a skull for a puppet. A skull with fangs. He's playing with his brother's skull.
 * Or it could be a gorilla's skull.
 * Gorillas don't live in the savannah.
 * Or one from a lioness.
 * Didn't Zira say that at that time Kovu was the last born cub....and Scar wasn't his father? What if that was Kovu's Bio Dad?
 * Watch the scene again and you'll notice that the skull is smaller than Scar's, so the odds of it being Mufasa's is pretty small. The shape of the skull he uses is actually spot-on for a baboon skull.
 * Scar's head is bigger than the skull, but that's because of his mane and skin. It could still be a lion's skull
 * It doesn´t look at all like a lion's skull- it does look like a baboon, though. Or maybe a mandrill-baboon freak of nature like Rafiki...
 * Nala's biological father is Mufasa. There are no other male lions around except Scar, and Nala doesn't have his coloring. It's not mentioned outright, but the animators did more than enough research to know that male lions impregnate all able bodied lionesses. It would have been easy enough to stick a few male lions in the background at some point in the movie, but the animators instead preferred to leave Nala's parentage as a Fridge Horror for Zoology majors.
 * Ironically YMMV here. Plenty of forums and fanfics have come up with a multitude of explanations that don't involve incest. A popular one comes from Nala's name. Translated as "Gift", she could have been given to Mufasa's pride as part of an agreement with another pride. The fact that Nala has been betrothed to Simba since cubhood and entirely without her knowledge helps this idea. The fact that there is a concept of marriage proves that the pride we see is not a direct translation from real life in regard to behaviors.
 * Also, if you look at Scar's cubs in the second movie, Kovu is the only one who actually had his coloring (although he's supposedly adopted) and the other two are lighter, so coat coloring might not always be an indication of whose cubs are whose. Nala being Simba's cousin wouldn't be much better than being his sister, but still a bit better nonetheless.
 * Somewhere on this website I read a comment from a troper wondering about Kopa and how he fit in with the Lion King 2. Another one was questioning the timing for Kovu's birth and how much older than Kiara he is. It got me thinking - what if Kopa and Kiara were twins? Assuming Nala became pregnant during the 'Can you feel the love tonight' scene, Kovu probably wasn't that much older than Kiara. The other wiki says lions are pregnant for about 110 days, which is approx 3 months (I think). Crossing the dessert probably took several weeks, maybe a month if we're generous - therefore Kiara and Kopa were born about two months after the battle. Speculation is that Zira gave birth just before the battle or was still pregnant at the time and gave birth shortly after. Kovu was at most 2 months older than Kiara. This answers a few other questions for me too:
 * 1) The reason why the presentation of the heir was different between LK 1 and LK 2 - at end of LK 1, they were presenting Kopa, the first born, who died before LK 2 (see below) and in LK 2, they were presenting the next heir, Kiara
 * 2) Why Zira is so bitter. She would have given birth to the older cub, chosen as the rightful heir of the true king (in her opinion) who was looked over in favour of a younger cub born of the upsurper (Simba). This lead me into 3:
 * 3) The reason Kopa wasn't in LK 2, why Simba was so protective of Kiara and why he was so unreasonably violent toward Zira and the outcasts: Zira, furious at these happenings, killed Kopa (probably just after LK 1 judging from Kiara's age at her presentation in LK 2). Simba bannished Zira, her cubs and any lionesses who supported her. From then on he was so protective over Kiara, because he had already lost one child and couldn't bear to lose another.
 * Kiara does look older than the cub in the first movie, if only a little.
 * The Lion Kingdom is apparently an absolute monarchy. The only reason Simba has a right to rule instead of Scar is because that's his inheritance. Suppose the next heir to the throne is as bad as Scar, then what, if he IS the true king? This is why absolute monarchies are a bad idea. Well, that and the whole consent of the governed thing.
 * This is a pride of lions, not a group of humans. It would be even more unrealistic than it already is if they had the kingdom work as a democracy. Should a Scar expy come to power, you do exactly what was shown in the movie. Nala was not looking for Simba; she was looking for help. Finding Simba was a happy coincidence. Had a lion other than Simba challenged Scar, the lionesses would have said that Scar had lost the right to rule due to mismanagement, rather than not having it at all since Simba was still alive. The lionesses could have simply left in a non-hyena situation, leaving a foolish king to reap the results of his folly.
 * Simba is told that he has no choice but to marry Nala, since arranged marriages are their tradition. They seem happy, but what if future heirs are arranged into unhappy marriages?
 * Well, Simba apparently ended that tradition by the second film. Even if he hadn't, it wouldn't be that hard to head off problems. As lionesses usually give birth to multiple cubs there would be no reason to betrothed two cubs that weren't even friends, Kiara and Simba being odd, possibly tragic, cases. This coming up would be the least of a cub's problems, as the king is probably as negligent of his kingdom as he is his cub.
 * Never mind that, what about Kiara? What would have happened to her if Kovu had never shown up? There didn't seem to be any other males in the pride.
 * A lot of people seem to assume that Nala was a "gift" from another pride, so it's not too much of a stretch to assume that Simba could have done the same thing for Kiara. Still begs the question of why he didn't seem to be actually actively looking for someone for Kiara to marry, though...
 * Since most of the animals talk in the film, the Lions would be eating their own servants.
 * Most of the animals. Disregarding the third installment (which is more of a parody anyway), the rule in this movie seems to be that the more likely an animal is to be a prey, the lesser their sentience. So baboons, warthogs and meerkats are sentient and can talk, but wildebeest decidedly cannot.
 * True...but since the wildebeest's only screen time was them being chased by hyenas and stampeding, their only sensible line would have been..."Oh Crap."
 * The hyenas are obviously absent from the second movie. The obvious assumption is that Simba exiled them along with the other outlanders or they moved on to find food. But what about Shenzi, Banzai, and Ed? They were busy killing Scar, and there was an awful lot of fire down there...
 * Don't lions usually have more than one cub per litter? There is a conspicuous lack of siblings for Simba...

Fridge Logic
Go here