Fable (video game series)/Headscratchers


 * Why are the fresco panels of the Chamber of Fate empty until you complete a chapter in F1? Surely some other heroes had come along before that did things they would consider worthy of such a place, especially considering that it's specifically called "the oldest part of the Guild"?
 * Maybe there's nothing on those panels, but there's magic that makes the Hero see his/her own life?
 * The Hero in Fable 1 killed Jack of Blades, and, all things considered, that makes him the most important hero since William Black. It's possible they really did wait for someone worthy to put on the panels.
 * Except they put those frescos up years before he even saw Jack of Blades for the first time.
 * In stated numeric times that the evil that Jack of Blades would unleash on Albion has been predicted since the dawn of life on the land that a "light" would banish a evil darkness. So They could have built them knowing that someday the hero who would kill "the evil darkness" would appear.
 * How the heck can you have Lucien
 * Marry someone and then divorce them = 600 evil points. Marry someone and then kill them = 60 evil points. That is all.
 * Maybe the divorce proceedings of the Fable setting involve rituals such as pissing on your soon-to-be-ex-significant-other's parents, making the divorce paper work out of the fresh, bloody skin of a cat and torturing your lawyer for a minimum of three days straight due to some draconian laws.
 * Perhaps Phoenix Wright is the only lawyer in Albion.
 * Considering what it takes to GET a divorce, the points might come as a culmination of the evil you did to your wife.
 * So the finger is evil?
 * You can get arrested for it, so hey. Also, one play I had four marriages because my husbands all divorced me for leaving them alone for a week. Regardless of the fact I gave them 100 gold, fantastic mansions, and diamonds every time I saw them.
 * This troper had his wife, went to see her at the house behind the demon door a whole lot, had a kid, and gave her a ton of money due to his vast monetary empire. In order to do something at a certain time of day(think at the temple of Light? been awhile) he skipped out on an invitation for sex ONCE... she divorced him the next time he entered the area and took the kid.
 * I must've been playing a different game from the rest of you guys, because I had something like 7 or 8 wives, 1-3 kids each, living in houses of all types. I paid them each 500-2000 gold in upkeep, and rarely came home for sex. Never gave gifts. They all adored me. The only time I lost a wife was when I came out of the cave from that damn Tommy/Hobbe quest, cast L5 inferno to kill some hobbes, and she was standing there waiting for me (for some reason). I had my safety turned off, since I'd just killed Tommy, and she died from the fire. It was...odd.
 * The game's actually surprisingly complex. Different spouses can have drastically different personalities. I've had wives that would still have maxed-out love after weeks of being away, and wives that divorced me for doing a single quest.
 * Lucien shoots rose at point blank, and this is sufficient to kill her. Lucien then shoots the hero at point blank. This catapults the hero through a window (even though it didn't move Rose back at all.) Having been thrown through a window, the hero falls many, many stories, BOUNCES off a tiled roof and slams into the pavement below. The hero lives. Both have the blood of Heroes, but it takes just a single shot to kill Rose and the hero survives a gunshot plus being thrown through a window plus a fall onto cobblestones hundreds of feet below.
 * It's more dramatic if the hero gets knocked back, plus they needed a reason for Lucien to incorrectly think Sparrow was dead, maybe the second bullet had some will behind it, since Lucien had to force himself to kill the hero,(at that point he had already found the spire, so he could use Will) the second bullet also could have been explosive while the first was not. Plus even if they are both heroes, it doesn't mean they are at the same power. Finally, It was probably Rose's destiny to die, and obviously not sparrow's.
 * When I played that sequence, the tip I got on the loading screen was "Heroes can survive falls that would kill normal people," or something to that effect. Rose isn't a Hero, but Sparrow is.
 * Rose IS a Hero. 1. She's the protagonist's sister, so naturally she's descended from Aarkan as well. 2. Lucien says so.
 * Um. Heros in fables have siblings that die often... Plus isn't drama heroic?
 * One word: Theresa
 * That's a name.
 * It's never actually said that Rose is a Hero. Also, I have a personal theory that only a Hero can kill another Hero, but that's just speculation.
 * Yes it is. Lucian says that "You are heroes" when you first meet him.
 * Inorrect speculation. The entire point of the game is that heroes are rare, BECAUSE REGULAR PEOPLE KILLED THEM ALL AFTER GUNS WERE INVENTED.
 * Er, it's true that regular people used guns to kill most of the heroes, but how was it the entire point of the game, exactly? It's a part of the back story, but as far as I remember it doesn't come up in the plot at all.
 * One phrase, said at every time the Hero 'dies'; "Death is not your destiny today little sparrow."
 * I have a theory about why Sparrow got knocked back. The bullet went right through Rose, but because Sparrow was a hero (and apparently incapable of dying according to gameplay mechanics) the bullet couldn't have made a wound. But the kinetic energy has to go somewhere, so he was sent flying out of a window.
 * This troper figured that Rose and Sparrow were about equally wounded, but because Rose was stuck in the castle she was either finished off or left to die. Sparrow being knocked out of the window gave Theresa the opportunity to save him/her. Lucien clearly said "you are heroes" after testing the children, and he would know.
 * Rather than the fact that the protagonist survived, or got knocked back, this troper was more bothered by the fact that you were sent flying through the window rather than, y'know, bouncing off of the force-field that was keeping you trapped in the first place.
 * While reading the main page someone mentions something about the Banshee's that might explain this. The Banshee, trying to demoralize you, informs you that Rose didn't die from the first bullet and watched you fly out said window before Lucien shot her a second time with a killing blow. Probably meaning he shot her in the head. Had she flown out the window with you, she would have been fine.
 * Yes it is. Lucian says that "You are heroes" when you first meet him.
 * Inorrect speculation. The entire point of the game is that heroes are rare, BECAUSE REGULAR PEOPLE KILLED THEM ALL AFTER GUNS WERE INVENTED.
 * Er, it's true that regular people used guns to kill most of the heroes, but how was it the entire point of the game, exactly? It's a part of the back story, but as far as I remember it doesn't come up in the plot at all.
 * One phrase, said at every time the Hero 'dies'; "Death is not your destiny today little sparrow."
 * I have a theory about why Sparrow got knocked back. The bullet went right through Rose, but because Sparrow was a hero (and apparently incapable of dying according to gameplay mechanics) the bullet couldn't have made a wound. But the kinetic energy has to go somewhere, so he was sent flying out of a window.
 * This troper figured that Rose and Sparrow were about equally wounded, but because Rose was stuck in the castle she was either finished off or left to die. Sparrow being knocked out of the window gave Theresa the opportunity to save him/her. Lucien clearly said "you are heroes" after testing the children, and he would know.
 * Rather than the fact that the protagonist survived, or got knocked back, this troper was more bothered by the fact that you were sent flying through the window rather than, y'know, bouncing off of the force-field that was keeping you trapped in the first place.
 * While reading the main page someone mentions something about the Banshee's that might explain this. The Banshee, trying to demoralize you, informs you that Rose didn't die from the first bullet and watched you fly out said window before Lucien shot her a second time with a killing blow. Probably meaning he shot her in the head. Had she flown out the window with you, she would have been fine.


 * I can't believe no one's brought this one up yet, but what the heck is up with the Hero's metabolism? And, more importantly, why does it have no detrimental effect on his/her health? Is that another benefit of being a Hero? Celery is the only food that is considered good at weight loss? I haven't really seen anything ELSE in the game that could possibly do that. Not that I'm complaining, of course. If it isn't a health problem, then free experience points and healing is win, and having a morbidly obese sorcerer with a gigantic hammer is just icing on the proverbial cake.
 * If you get the Knothole Island pack there are also weight loss potions, but they are corrupting and probably would give a real person some horrible disease.
 * I have a problem with this too. It's too easy to end up with a character who waddles around in a comical fashion when he's meant to be a lithe warrior. It irks me to the point that the character I'm using now doesn't actually have any food on him at the moment, just resurrection phials. I know that if I start getting food again, it'll be a pain to try and find enough celery to keep the weight off. Do you understand what this means? Dying and coming back to life is easier than losing weight.
 * That bugged me too. Here I am, a Hero of legend, killing everything in sight, running thousands of miles around the world without ever stopping to sleep...and I can't eat a fucking pie without gaining a spare tire? An 8-hour strenuous hike with a 15-pound pack in real life burns over 5,000 calories. I'm lugging around a the world in my pack, jacked like all hell, and I have the metabolism of a man in a coma.
 * Not to mention the way that after massacring an entire town for that one evil cultist quest (a town that my own wife happened to be a resident of), I was able to become a paragon of virtue and goodness again within 72 in game hours by eating celery. Really? Shooting my wife to death in front of our son before turning the gun on him, and then going on to slaughter the neighbours was atoned for by my eating celery for a couple days?
 * Avo/God of Light works in mysterious ways.
 * You know what bugs me? It has always bugged me for the longest time and I still can't think of any reason for it to not bug me. How do those barbers make my hair GROW!? In fact, how do the tattoo artists make my tattoos disappear? This isn't the 21st century! We don't have magical tattoo removers yet!
 * A Will user did it?
 * Considering that being a Hero also entails possible immortality, possible invincibility, the ability to steal the experience of people and creatures you kill plus all the other stuff they can do, I'm pretty sure their biology is not the same as ours.
 * The bard in Fable 2 actually mentions it when introducing you to the stylist's shop in Bowerstone. They do indeed have the ability to magically grow hair, which is why they can even give females facial hair.
 * One thing that bugs me from both games (and any other good/evil choice game for that matter) is that of the storyline. Why is it that even if I'm playing ass the most evil, degenerate, vile being possible then I still am happy to take a monk into a cave and protect her? The storyline quests rarely have a multiple choice regarding morality other than the largest decisions; lets face it, how often do they come up?
 * Ultimately the main reason for this is simple econonomics. If the developer was to give good and evil choices for every quest, then it stands to reason that most players would never see all the outcomes. Hard to justify something like that to the person holding the purse strings. There are other complications too, if each decision has to have proper consequence then the game needs to have either a massive amount of branching (see the Way of the Samurai games, which do just that. And each playthrough lasts about 30 minutes as a result), or you have to meticulously plot out a 'string of sausages' approach (Deus Ex does this, it basically means within each bit of the story you can do what you like, but all choices eventually narrow down to the same result, which then branches out again).
 * If you want a plot-related reason I'd say it comes down to the ends and the means justifying them. Your character wants revenge on Lucien, be it for noble or selfish reasons. While a despicably amoral character would be perfectly content caking the linear path to Lucien and the spire with blood, innocent and otherwise, that's not always a feasible option. Theresa makes it clear that the only way you can defeat Lucien is by gathering the three heroes, the aforementioned monk being one of them. I'd assume the hero is smart enough to make a seemingly altruistic gesture in return for promise of vengeance.
 * The ending of Fable II,
 * I think it's more about the spirit of the questions, if you know what I mean? Each choice has a sort of underlying something to them. It's not so much the power of the Spire as the spirit of the choice. Something like that.
 * What bugs me most about the ending is that the much-foreshadowed "painful choice with far-reaching consequences" is basically between goodness points, a vital gameplay component without which certain quests are unwinnable, and lots of gold. Do you want to break character, or do you want to break the game?
 * Took me a minute to realize what you were talking about. You can resurrect the dog now that Knothole Island is out. So no need to choose that just for that reason. Of course, you still need to sacrifice a NPC, but whatever.
 * What bugs me about that ending is "The Needs Of The Few" choice made me feel conned. Rose was the character in Fable II I cared about most -- especially after "The Perfect World" -- so to say that choice would bring her back and all we got instead was a letter from her made it a severe Downer Ending.
 * As to why you can't bring back everyone: Theresa was basically screwing you over. She takes the Spire for herself, gives you a crappy consolation prize and then tells you to go away. She probably just didn't care enough to bother giving the Heroes what they wanted.
 * Exactly, it isn't a case of the Hero only thinking of three things to say, it's a case of only being given three choices.
 * What exactly is the deal with Hammer? A significant chunk of her dialogue seems to be just a Take That against religion. At one point during a quest, she describes the Temple Of Light as "a bunch of men telling people what to do based on things written hundreds of years ago" (or something along those lines). However, we know that's not true; Hammer was a member of the temple, so they're not all male. It's the first we've heard that they tell people what to do. We also know for a fact that the Temple's teachings weren't from hundreds of years ago because the first game featured the Temple Of Avo rather than the Temple Of Light. Even if these points can be reasonably explained, why would Hammer say these things? Her father was the Abbot of the Temple Of Light and it was his death that spurred her into action in the first place. How does it make sense that she'd suddenly feel so carefree about badmouthing his beliefs? Especially considering Hammer's final piece of dialogue, where she apparently retracts all that in order to study with warrior monks. Take That's against religion don't particularly bother me but this came at the cost of Character Derailment.
 * It was her father's pacifistic beliefs that got him killed because there was no one at the temple to defend him. Plus, if Hammer hadn't been off performing the ritual she might have been there to help. It's only reasonable that she'd have some bitterness against the temple, and that she would feel an affinity to the warrior monks. As for your other points, do we ever see any female monks? It's been a while since I've played the game so I can't remember. Maybe Hammer was an exception as the Abbot's daughter.
 * Why do I have to do the dumbest thing imaginable- - to rescue the Hero of Will? Why does no-one point out what a bad idea this is? Why can't I go recruit the other Hero first so that I have some backup? Why does Theresa do nothing to help me for ten god damned years? What was she doing all that time? Why doesn't she apologise? Why can't I simply blast through all of Lucien's army when I arrive and still have my powers, a feat I'm perfectly capable of doing even after ten years of fatigue? Why can't I make any sort of attempt to attack my Arch Enemy when I arrive, considering it's the first time I've seen him since he shot my sister? Why doesn't Lucien detect that I'm the Fourth Hero- again- and hold me in a cell, considering that he has some kind of Hero Detector that worked perfectly well on the other Heroes? Why do I instantly regain my full strength when my collar is broken, but the Hero of Will is powerless until he absorbs all those experience orbs? Why couldn't I attempt to do the same thing he did? Why couldn't I attempt to escape at least once in ten years? Why haven't I physically changed at all after the timeskip? Why hasn't my Renown budged an inch considering that I haven't done anything in ten years? Why don't I have ten years worth of house rental in my bank account? What was the point?
 * On the subject of the spire,  is counted as an evil act. What the hell? Letting him suffer is just worse. And I Must Scream, anyone?
 * It's because he's still resisting. Killing a spire guard has no moral influence because they are literally mindless slaves to Lucien, but he is still trying to maintain his own will. The correct thing to do in this situation is
 * Continuing the discussion on the Spire, why is it that resisting mind control is automatically a good act? Did the developers just assume that no evil hero could have have any pride? I fed all those starving prisoners and attacked the commandant just to spite him, and had to go on a crime spree to get rid of all the pesky good points I got as a result.
 * Spite-motivated or no, you did feed tortured men knowing full well that you'd get noting but a painful shock and slight mind-wiping for it when you could have easily ignored them. The developers didn't factor intent into the Karma Meter because that would unnecessarily complicate the game. You just have to accept that your hilariously evil villain striking at a greater evil might just qualify as "good" to some degree.
 * You have to go into the Spire because it's the only way to rescue Garth. No one says it's a bad idea because only two people know about it, and one of them is using you while the other is not a tactical genius.You can't recruit the other hero because you don't know where he is. Theresa does nothing to help you because she knows it will work and doesn't care how long it takes. She was presumably looking for the last hero. She doesn't apologize because, as I've already said, she didn't care. You can't blast through Lucien's army because you are trying to infiltrate his base. You can't attack him because the first time you see him he puts you to sleep. Lucien doesn't detect that you're the Fourth Hero because it isn't obvious who you are and you're not standing in his magic Hero Detection Circle. You gain your strength back because your collar comes off, but Garth uses all his power getting the collars off. You can't do the same thing because you aren't as good at magic as he is. You can't escape because you can't get the collar off. Those are all simply game elements, not story ones. The point was to get the Hero of Will away from Lucien, which (eventually) worked.
 * Says you. My Hero was a seven-foot tall behemoth that glowed blue. If Lucien couldn't detect that he's Too Dumb to Live
 * The last time Lucien met your hero, you looked like a normal 8 year old child. It really isn't surprising he wouldn't be able to connect the two based solely on appearance.
 * My theory on the retail and renown thing. Those living in your houses didn't exactly have someone to pay, and personally, the people of Albion don't seem very nice, so maybe they just figured they could get away with it. As for renown, people still recognize you because you've willingly gone to the spire, despite the fact that you know that Lucien would kill you the moment he realized who you were. This is the equivalent of sneaking inside Death's house and hoping he doesn't notice. People still recognize you because, just by accepting you have proved that your balls are about as big as Bowerstone.
 * You can't recruit the last hero to help you get Garth. That hero was REAVER. Reaver wouldn't even look at you until you had some level of renown. And even if you could get him to listen to you, there's no way he would've stormed the Spire with you. Not even if he knew Albion was at stake. Theresa only got him to help at the end through vague promises and Reaver not exactly knowing what was going on.
 * But Sparrow didn't actually know the last hero was an evil basket until s/he met him, right? Sure, Theresa might have known Reaver was pretty mean with her powers, but the idea wasn't even brought up by anyone. I was expecting Hammer to say something like: "Hmmm, we have to go Lucien's headquarters to rescue Garth. Seems pretty dangerous. Maybe we should find the Hero of Skill first - it's gotta be easier than sneaking into a giant magic tower by ourselves, and a brilliant sniper should up the odds of succeeding considerably."
 * Why would  actually be evil?
 * She's not evil, just selfish. There's something that she wants and she has few scruples about how she goes about getting it.
 * Two possibilities. One, she's . Two,
 * First explanation is if not impossible, at least very, very unlikely.
 * She was always a very Anti Hero character, actually. In the original game  She never really does anything Heroic and most of her acts in the first game were more Because Destiny Says So than any desire to help people.


 * Two things from Fable II: What did the guy want to do with Rose that causes her to go "We'll never be that hungry. The answer is no!" Also, after Lucien kills Rose and blasts you out of the window, what happened to Rose's body?
 * Prostitution, probably. And Lucien's men would have gotten rid of the body.


 * Speaking of that night, why did NO ONE come running in when they heard gunshots? If anything, Jeeves should've gotten there first as he was RIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOOR!! He would have heard Rose screaming "No, wait! Don't! Noooo!!" before the first gunshot, then he would have had about ten seconds to get through that door. The reason I think he could've helped is because I imagine someone in Jeeves's position would have to stay and wait for Lucien to come out with the kids to escort them elsewhere. I'm not saying he should've overpowered Lucien, I'm saying he should have ran in, discovered Lucien was killing the children, and done something like tell Sparrow to haul ass out of there while he distracted Lucien. Instead, he seems to be a royal asshole who's sitting there listening to two gunshots and not doing anything.
 * Yeah, and? Why would he risk his life and turn on his employer in order to help out two street brats? Nothing ever suggests he gives a crap about the two of you. The fact that he's working for Lucien in the first place should tell you he isn't exactly a paragon of virtue.
 * Firstly, what do you think Jeeves is going to do? I doubt he was armed at all. Even if he had wanted to help the children, he wouldn't have been able to. Secondly, Lucien WAS armed. If Jeeves had burst through the door, Lucien could have easily shot him and then gotten rid of the bodies. Thirdly, it's possible he may have simply left after the children went inside and the door shut. I know he's a butler and all, but couldn't have Lucien had more than one? Beyond that, though, Lucien was never very evil in the beginning of the game. It was only years later when he was driven mad that the tyrannical ruler penchant kicked in. This could very well have been an isolated incident, meaning Jeeves had no reason to believe Lucien would do something like this.
 * That or maybe he just assumed Lucien's gun somehow fell off of the table or out of Lucien's holster and fired two shots. There's nothing that could have told him that Lucien was gunning down two children.
 * Jeeves is a coward, plain and simple. Even if he did know what happened, there's no way he'd have the guts to stand up to someone as psychotic and powerful as Lucien. He probably just kept his head down until Lucien abandoned him and the rest of the staff, then scavenged what he could after the coast was clear.
 * Plus Lucien is THE KING or Lord or Grand Poobah or whatever of Bowerstone. It'd be Jeeves or whoever's word against Lucien's. Lucien probably owns the guards, the judges, and anybody who could possibly serve on a jury. Calling him on it would not exactly be advisable if you wish to stay alive or not trapped in the Spire. It sucks but dems da breaks.
 * Isn't scythe older than the guildmaster?
 * Yes.
 * Then why, when I'm going after the "Oldest soul", are the options "Guildmaster" or "Nostro"? Scythe is the elder of the three.
 * Likely because Scythe could obliterate your head with a stern glare. You settle for souls you actually have a chance of taking. That, or (if he is William Black) he already fed his soul to the Sword of Aeons and you can't even take it from him.
 * What is up with that music box? Who made it? Where did Theresa get it? Why did she want you to buy it from Murgo? Is it a Jackass Genie that actually granted your wish, or was that disaster all just a coincidence? Why and where did it disappear too? Where and how do you find it again from decades later? Why did the developers think it was a good idea to resolve the game with a lame deus ex machina instead of an awesome boss fight? What does the music box do, besides maybe, possibly twist wishes and suck up A God Am I levels of magic like a hax magic vacuum cleaner? What happened to all that magical power it sucked up, and where did it go again afterwards? Why does your character take the music box for granted and never explain or question it? Seriously, that damn music box is really bugging me guys!
 * The music box is The Relic, mentioned on the Fate Card Theresa gives you, which states it was created as a counter measure against the Spire. It was made by the people of the Old Kingdom. Theresa seems interested in Old Kingdom stuff, so she probably found it while studying some ruins or the Spire or whatever. She wanted you to buy it so that it could react to you and tip off Lucien that there were HEROES! in his town. I don't think it grants wishes at all, so coincidence. It disappeared because you tried to use it for something it wasn't meant for, and went somewhere where people who weren't suppose to use it could not get at it, probably a pocket dimension or something. The ritual Theresa had you do let you summon it, as it was suppose to wait for someone with the strength to use it. They decided against a Boss fight for unknown reasons. It is a weapon to use against the Spire, and probably nothing else. The magic probably went into the wish you made, and the music box went back into its pocket dimension because it wasn't needed anymore. Your character never questions it or anything for the same reason your character never questions anything else, they are too busy brooding over their Dark and Troubled Past.
 * I may just had some Fridge Brilliance. What if Fable II was a story Theresa was telling to...someone about how she  I mean, start a new game and she'll say "And so our story begins...who is the hero of our tale?". Get your character married/become a parent and Theresa will narrate those. It makes total sense...except where does that leave Fable I? Is the whole series her story?
 * If the series is just a a story told, then that means the Guildmaster/the portraits in Fable I tells the Hero of Oakvale's story, Theresa just told the stories of Fable II and III. Makes more sense, too, that Theresa would let who she's telling the story to would get to pick their gender - the Guildmaster might just go "Well this is how it is."
 * How old is that damn dog?! It has to be at least twenty by the end of the series!
 * There are a few indications that the dog isn't entirely normal, like the way it shows up again with Theresa when she finds you after your fall. I wouldn't be surprised if it was magical in some small way.
 * No matter how many times it gets hit in combat it never seems to die, just limp around for a while. Either that dog is magical or it's some kind of mutant super-dog.
 * It may be some kind of hero dog.


 * What's going on with the architecture in Albion? Specifically, the houses with a second story that can only be accessed from the outside. Is that kind of architecture common in Europe or something?
 * Its sort of an apartment set up.
 * But it's all one residence, not two separate apartments. Even houses in the village of Brightwall are set up like that.
 * Yep--and the beds are always on that top half-floor. I find it incredibly irritating. I still find it irritating that you can't shut your doors to keep out nosy neighbors who are in love with you. Also that certain decorations like pictures can't be accessed without having Jasper redecorate the room--I want my Theresa portrait back!
 * I find it particularly disconcerting that you can't shut the door to keep out your children while getting busy. And that said children's talking mingles with the sexy noises. "Oh! Oh! Do it again! MUMMY!! I WANT A TOY MUMMY!!!" (Also, on the subject of paintings, Jasper kindly put a giant honking portrait of Captain Saker in my nursery. Brilliant, Jasper. Just... brilliant.)
 * Why did I have to bail out Bowerstone--I own every building except Reaver Industries, and they're doing fantastically. My citizens pay no rent. Their houses are like mansions. I have eradicated crime. They essentially have no taxes. What is wrong with you people?! Who am I bailing out? Myself? Why don't I get that money?
 * There are several buildings that you can see but can't buy, and not just Reaver Industries. I guess the implication is that Bowerstone is actually a sprawling urban metropolis and the part you're able to see/buy is only a small percentage of it.
 * I always thought this was definitely the case--but you finance the largest industrial section, commercial section, and a very large residential section and business booms everywhere. Combined with not taxing these people, lowering rents/prices, and the vast wealth of money I have in the treasury, I just don't see how they could argue the economy is about to collapse. Not doing as well as hoped, I can see. But on the verge of total collapse?
 * Why was Reaver, of all people, selected as the opposing debater? If there was any semblance of pragmatism over plain evil, it was gone when that oh-so charming villain stepped up. It made the decisions a lot easier when Reaver would make speeches straight out of an Evil Overlord's handbook about what evil things he wanted to do. I thought that the previously black and white world was supposed to be gone, Lionhead?
 * This troper would of totally made that brothel if it wasn't tied to a promise.
 * It gets better if you tune out Reaver's Affably Evil dialogue and abstract the decisions down to their basic elements. For instance, the argument for building a brothel over an orphanage is really this: An orphanage is an expensive investment that will take at least a generation to even begin to pay for itself, if it ever does. A brothel will bring in much more revenue over the short term (which we desperately need for the war) and will serve as an emotional outlet for a restless population. Plus (and I can't believe Reaver didn't make this argument) we can always build an orphanage after the war is over. The argument for draining and mining Bower Lake is this: The lake gives us nothing at the moment but a nice view. Mining the resources at the bottom of the lake would provide countless jobs and badly needed finances for the war less than a year away. Not to mention (and again, I can't believe Reaver didn't make this argument) we can always remove the dam and refill the lake once the mines are exhausted. See that? Much more morally ambiguous that way. It makes the "evil" option sound more pragmatic and it makes the "good" option sound more like pie-in-the-sky idealism.
 * Oh, I agree. I thought that, while there still could have been some more ambiguity to it, I could come up with plenty of reasons to do what they asked (while still face-palming at some of the decisions--why can't I repair the orphanage and build a brothel? Or let the proceeds of the brothel on the other side of town fund an orphanage?). It's just that they removed a lot of the sense there is no black and white as there was in the first two games by putting Reaver at the forefront and making it obvious he'd be a complete jackass evil dude about how he handled it. But I just think that, if, say...uhm...well, there are no really morally ambiguous good guys, but if they had someone who was on your side like Ben Finn argue the counterpoints it would have been tougher.
 * Exactly, not having Reaver and maybe someone who said things like you suggested, the choice would have been actually hard. Or even have some characters discuss the changed situation and not be so gung-ho about the promise when the world is is DANGER.
 * I found that my decision making became about the money involved. Reaver could have turned into the devil and danced with a pitchfork and if it was offering me money for a relatively low price - especially the brothel option - I'd still have considered it and probably agreed.

.
 * Mistpeak Valley is smack in the middle of a mountain range. That bugs me.
 * Well, yeah. After all, valleys are part of a mountainous landscape. You're going down the valley from the mountain (Dweller Camp) and Brightwall.
 * In short: You Fail Geography Forever.
 * Last I checked, valleys go at the foot of a mountain, not in the middle. Where I come from we call that a "plateau". Who fails geography now, smart guy?
 * It's still you. I don't know what the hell you're referring to as a plateau, so I don't even know how to correct you on that, but a valley is any long V- or U-shaped depression in the geography of an area. It has nothing to do with relation to normal ground level. Mistpeak Valley is in the middle of a mountain range because it is the low area between two of the peaks that make up that range. When you walk through it, you're walking from one mountain to another. It is a valley.
 * Why can't I KILL REAVER? I was overjoyed to see him appear in Fable III because I thought I could finally get revenge after all the crap he did in Fable II, but no. I have to keep him as the head of industry who profits no matter what I do. Who says Reaver industries absolutely needs Reaver running it? Off with his head, and I'll, oh I dunno, put Page or someone in charge of the company. That should cover a few promises as well. Seriously, screw Reaver. NO WAIT!
 * What's worse is that he's used as an example of one of Logan's mad mistakes. When you arrive in Bowerstone Industrial, you see him shoot the protester and threaten to shoot anyone else who complains or stops working, and Walter says he'll never understand why Logan put Reaver in charge of the industrial quarter. Meaning Reaver's power comes from the king giving him that power. When I saw "meet with Reaver" on my list of things to do, I thought I'd be given the choice of leaving him in charge and making loads of cash, or firing him and taking a loss. But not only do I do nothing, I let him weigh in on nearly every matter put in front of me, basically letting him act as my personal adviser, and keep him as the head of my kingdom's industry so he makes money off of all the good things I want built. Because it's not like I have any reason to think Reaver might use his fortune to do anything immoral, like build a mansion where he forces captives to fight monsters for his amusement.

The morality of Logan's execution

 * How come all these kids are still running around Bowerstone Industrial labeled "So-and-so the Child Labourer" after I've abolished child labour? Is being oppressed such a fundamental part of their being that they can't just be called by their names?
 * The castle bedchambers have a little offshoot room which CLEARLY contains three child-sized beds. Yet I'm only allowed to have two children to a house. What.
 * Why does my husband, originally a beggar, still dress like a hobo when I've moved him and my children into the BLOODY CASTLE? I mean come on, at least put a tophat on the guy. He's the King Consort for chrissakes.
 * On the same note, all of these orphans I adopted. I'm the Queen, damn it, I should be allowed to dress my orphans nicely. Having them running around in their raggy clothes amongst all these posh nobles in Millfields (better known in my Albion as "The Orphan Ranch" - every mansion, filled with orphans) just clashes so hard. Really ruins the atmosphere. (Also: Reaver's mansion. Why can't I buy it? I NEED TO FILL IT WITH ORPHA- wait oh God the hidden sex chamber nevermind.)
 * Basically, either the game should allow you to dress your family as you see fit, or, failing that, it should assign them clothing based on how much upkeep you give them. This would give a nice incentive to provide decent upkeep, and would allow all of the denizens of the Orphan Ranch to blend in a bit better with their wealthy neighbors.
 * So you need to collect 6.5 million gold to save the country, right? And judging by the "anticipated death toll" thing this turns out to be exactly 1 gold per person. Why can't I just ask everyone in the country to donate 1 gold? Problem freaking solved.
 * Because most of those people don't have even a single gold left to donate. Logan already taxed most of the citizens into absolute poverty. Recall that if you raise the taxes it only bring in a paltry 200,000 gold, presumably collected only from the richest Albion citizens.
 * This brings up another problem, actually: Six and a half million people!? Where!? Even with a very generous approximation of hobos I can't really place any more than a couple hundred citizens. A thousand at the most, maybe. Are we also counting the death toll for hobbes and balverines or something?
 * I don't know, were places like Oakfield completely decimated since the fifty year interim? The probably didn't include Brightwood or Oakfield because they can be in different conditions depending on the Fable II hero's ending. But, still, Bloodstone, Brightwood, Oakfield, Westcliff and Rookridge can all be places with a population that we don't see. Presumably Brightwall and Bowerstone aren't the only places in Albion.
 * Which brings to light ANOTHER problem: Why can't we return to a lot of the places we went in Fable II?
 * The only ones worth returning to are Bloodstone, Brightwood, Westcliff, and Oakfield. Two of those can be decimated and one can be a very different town than the other, and despite allowing you to "import" your save, the team didn't want to deal with making different areas depending on your choices in Fable II, so you can't visit them.
 * That's exactly what taxes are, you having everyone in the country pitch in some cash to be spent on the greater good. And since Logan's taxed the people into poverty, it's presumably a lot more than 1g per person. As you see when you become king, the problem isn't that the country can't afford to raise an army, it's that they can't afford to raise the army and pay the salaries of government workers and prevent crime and abolish child labor and aid the impoverished and give aid to Aurora, so on and so forth. What you need is a 6.5 million gold surplus after all the other expenses of running the kingdom.
 * What bugged me was that I couldn't postpone any of the decisions. We're going to fight a force that can only be described as "darkness incarnate" in eight months. I really don't care about redecorating the castle right now!!
 * The 1 Gold = 1 Life thing made me laugh, because every dollar I spent on something frivolous was so horrible in context. Oh, so you want to drop down to the Whorehouse and enjoy a lady instead of donating that money? 20 people must die!
 * One, tiny little thing in Fable 3: Why was my Hero parent, who was a kick-ass male in Fable 2, a queen? I never took that potion in the second game that switched out your genitalia, and I never played as a female Hero. So yeah. WTH, Lionhead?
 * Glitch. If you never, ever played as a female Hero, I don't know what to tell you. The game "imports" the last save file you played without asking you.
 * Nope, the gender of the previous hero is completely dependent upon the gender of your hero. If you play as a guy, the last hero was your dad, if you play as a girl, the last hero was your Mom.
 * Then could you explain why my Princess was always being told about how wonderful her father, the King, was?
 * I dunno. I played a female in Fable 2 and a male in Fable 3, but my parent was a King. My sister played a female both games, and her parent was a queen. If your parent's gender isn't based on your current characters gender than I have no idea how it's determined, unless it's random.
 * Your old hero's gender is only carried over if you've completed Fable II with that hero. I completed Fable II with a female hero, and so my female hero of the third game has a famous hero for her mother. If you don't have a completed save, then it's just random.


 * Why the flying feck does lowering taxes for the upcoming year instantly deplete your treasury of 400,000 gold? That is not how taxes work! Lowering taxes means you collect less money next tax day, it doesn't mean you empty the treasury and give it all away to the citizens!
 * Was it for the upcoming year? I thought he said it was a tax refund for the previous year that Logan was draining the populace.
 * Fixed expenses involved in running a kingdom. Apparently Albion collects all its taxes and pays all its civil servants at the same time, once a year.
 * With a system like that it's no wonder Albion practically lay in ruins.
 * That giant diamond and the white balverine statue. You net a good 1.5 million for selling them, but who's buying? Foreigners? Why can't you request aid from or negotiate an alliance with them? Wealthy Albion citizens? Why does it never even occur to you to negotiate with them for donations to the treasury (good option), or confiscate their land and money (evil option)? This is a pretty huge and obvious area of potential resources that are completely ignored by the game.
 * It bugs me that being a monarch feels less like ruling a country and more like moderating a debate. You can never take the initiative on anything, only react to other people's ideas and proposals. You don't meet and ally with anyone on your own, you follow Walter to them and only on his word do they graciously allow you to help them. You can't order Reaver to drain the lake and mine it or build a brothel, you have to wait until he asks you for permission. You can't ask nobles for donations to the treasury, you have to wait until they offer you their stupid looking statue. You can't change any of Logan's policies on your own, you have to wait until Hobson asks you if you'd like to change them. One gets the feeling that if Walter never took you away from the castle that day, you'd still be sitting in your bedroom, choosing an outfit whenever Jasper tells you it's time to get dressed, even as the crawler descends upon the city.
 * Why exactly is the Queen or King of Albion expected to personally go collect a diamond in a distant land or wipe out a gang of criminals all by her/himself? Wouldn't it make more sense to send a bunch of soldiers to handle those problems? You aren't even given the option of bringing an escort with you. You'd think your allies would take issue with you risking your life so recklessly when the future of Albion itself depends upon you.
 * What risk? By that point in the game you're likely a seven-foot tall muscled behemoth carrying weapons that make Excalibur look like a wooden spoon, enough potions to fill a swimming pool and are capable of creating fire tornadoes. You don't need any escorts except your trusty dog.
 * And despite all those things, you were still almost killed by the Crawler the first time you visited the Auroran desert, even with Walter by your side. And yet no one objects when you decide to revisit that same eldritch-abomination-infested desert, alone, to find a stupid diamond. Even though they know that the world is doomed if the Crawler gets you this time.
 * In all fairness, the Hero is probably the only one who could have done it. Not to mention that sending an army to grab a diamond which you need to raise money for the army is counter-productive when you desperately need every man and woman who can wield a weapon. In all likelihood, they would have been slaughtered, leaving you less one unit of soldiers and still no diamond. I'm not convinced that the reward outweighs the risk of sending the Monarch on a Fetch Quest, though, especially if the player has invested heavily in real estate.
 * Good points, but you'd think someone would at least voice an objection. I'd be fine if you had advisors that protested and you overruled them, but the fact that everyone is just totally okay with this crazy plan is what bugs me. It's like they all know they're in a video game and you literally can't die.
 * Why do you have to choose between imprisoning Nigel Ferret and accepting his bribe? The money is almost certainly stolen, so why can't you confiscate it and then lock him up anyway? Who's gonna call you on breaking a promise to a rotten criminal scumbag that's been terrorizing the innocent citizens of your city for years? Even Page wouldn't blame you for that.
 * For that matter, why can't you take the money if you promise to donate it to the treasury, and then lock him up? Or, to avoid breaking even your promise to Nigel Ferret, take the money, let him go, and then shoot him dead? Technically, you can do that, but the game still counts it as evil to take the bribe. You can offset it by donating the funds to the treasury, but Page will still be pissed at you over it.
 * Why does the Crawler take so long to attack Albion? It wiped out Aurora, but what exactly was keeping it from rampaging everywhere else while you built up your army? Where did it come from and why does it destroy? ... Seriously, did this game ever explain anything about the Crawler?
 * Maybe... maybe it needed a year to cross the water? Evil tends to be stopped by water. Maybe the ocean was blessed by William Black or something way back when, and... it's... taken this long to weaken enough for the Crawler to cross over? Although, for that matter, why does it leave Aurora alone after you rebuild it? What's stopping it from attacking Aurora again and decimating it, especially if you don't build the Outpost? Why don't you transport the, what, seven Aurorans left to Albion until the Crawler is defeated? I had about twenty million in my personal treasury at that point even after donating 8.5 million to the castle treasury, I totally could have imported a bunch of sand and dumped it wherever, and build some of their style of houses if they wanted. I mean, I'm wasting precious time deciding on castle decor instead of raising an army, so why not?
 * Wraithmarsh was once Oakvale? Yeah, I could believe that... Except for one problem. Wraithmarsh is either on an island or a coast that one could only use to access. Oakvale... wasn't.
 * Oakvale was pretty out-of-the-way in the first game - you had to walk through two entire forests to get there from Bowerstone. In Fable 2 there's Wraithmarsh after all of that, and without Oakvale there are no traders coming though, so the roads haven't been maintained. It's not hard to imagine why they'd consider that impassible.
 * In Fable III. Why, oh merciful Avo, do the mercenaries mistake me for their mate Mick when I have a HUGE pair of tits and a flaring pair of hips? And for that matter, how the hell did I grow that facial hair in the first place?
 * Because the only other way for a female to sneak into the mercenary camp would be to dress up as a whore ... which, considering that you could totally do that in Fable 2, I'm really not sure why they removed that option from Fable 3.

As for the facial hair, I always thought it was pretty obvious that your hero is bald and all the hair and facial hair you buy are fake. I mean, they all sit on mannequin heads in your dressing room, you can change them at will, "grow" hair in an instant ... and Jasper sure doesn't look like a barber to me.
 * ...because the sequence isn't meant to be serious? They learn it isn't their mate by the colour of your eyes, for god's sake. At no point were Lionhead passing this off as some cunning scheme on your character's part.
 * It's one of the parts that make more sense if you think of Fable as "Monty Python: The Game."
 * Except Fable isn't Monty Python. Monty Python is primarily a comedy series with few, if any, serious moments. By contrast, the overall plot of the Fable games are very serious, epic fantasy stories. I'm not saying you can't have funny moments in a serious story but there's a big difference between "funny" and "ridiculous". You can't just shoehorn comedic moments into a serious story wherever and whenever you please. They have to make sense in the larger context of the story or they come off as jarring or even stupid.

For instance, in Dragon Age: Origins if you do the "Captured!" quest the method your party members use to bluff their way past the guards differs depending on which members you choose for the rescue team. If you choose any two of the girls they will disguise themselves as Chantry sisters and claim to be on Chantry business (offering prayers or last rites to the prisoners or somesuch). Imagine if, instead of dressing up as priests the girls just slapped on some fake mustaches and threw on some men's clothes that did absolutely nothing to hide their long hair, flaring hips, and very large and obvious bosoms. And then imagine it successfully fooled the guards until one of them noticed some tiny discrepancy like Morrigan not remembering the name of the Grand Cleric or something. Would that seem funny, or would it seem jarring and stupid?

What really bugs me is there is a female mercenary outfit in the game. So why didn't they write it so a female hero masquerades as a well-known female member of the mercenary gang?
 * The entire sequence of events is presented in a humorous manner, from the dialogue of the bandits to how you disguise yourself. Your comparisons and logic are absolutely awful because you're shoehorning the theme into something it's clearly not using. Good grief.
 * The sequence of events are not all presented in a humorous manner. The game starts out deadly serious and remains so except for a few short sequences where it takes a hard left turn into ridiculousness. If you want to add humor into a serious story, it has to make sense in the context of the story. You can't just throw ridiculous shit at us from out of left field and expect us to accept it. Once again, there is a female mercenary outfit in the game. Explain to me why they couldn't have just had female heroes masquerade as a female bandit.
 * What do you mean, it's not presented in a humorous manner? Don't you remember Walter's words? "His name's Clarence... but everone calls him Jimmy." The whole "masquerade as a bandit" shtick was meant to be taken as seriously as chicken kicking. Remember, this is Fable we're talking about here. If a situation can be humorous without spoiling the mood, it will be.
 * Precisely. Don't blame the game if you're too bloody stupid to realise when it's telling a joke. Fable is built on the whimsical and stupid being alongside a larger, more serious plot. They didn't use the female mercenary outfit because they were telling a joke. Good fucking god.
 * ^^I said they're not all presented in a humorous manner. You said, quote, "The entire sequence of events is presented in a humorous manner." This is patently false. There are elements of humor present (how many depends on how many sidequests you do before infiltrating the bandit camp) but overall the story is fairly serious up to that point. Then this completely ridiculous (and not all that funny IMO) scene comes right the fuck out of nowhere and blindsides you. Again, there is a difference between adding humorous elements to a serious story and shoehorning in a stupid, unfunny scene that makes absolutely no sense. Especially when there was a perfectly simple way of avoiding this problem by just making female heroes impersonate a female mercenary. There is a female mercenary outfit in the game and no reason not to use it here. ^As for you, don't blame me if you're too bloody stupid to realize the difference between "telling a joke" and "making no goddamn sense". You can't just throw any stupid shit you want at the player and justify it by saying "it's just a joke". No, it's not a joke. Jokes are funny. This is not funny. This is stupid. And so are you if you don't understand the difference.
 * FUNNY IS A SUBJECTIVE TERM. That is all.
 * Dude, calm down. Some people find things funny that others don't. It's all a matter of opinion. I and others found it funny, you and others didn't. Humor is a subjective thing.
 * Also, there is such a thing as false beards.
 * If you build the brothel, why are there orphan children in a locked room with huge, opulent beds and two male prostitutes?
 * Because Reaver designed it.
 * Did they ever explain the Crawler's motives? I mean...Was he just covering the world in black-inky death for the hell of it? And what were the Crawler's minions supposed to be? He calls them 'children' even though they look like scraggly angel shadow things. And where did the Crawler come from? All we know about his origin is he simply appeared in Aurora one day and decided to kill absolutely everything. Short version: Why they never explained anything about the Crawler bugs me.
 * He's a monster made of evil who wants to trash the world because that's what monsters made of evil do. Fable is a fairytale, the monster doesn't really need a motivation.
 * Fairy tale monsters still have motivation. The wicked fairy from Sleeping Beauty was miffed she wasn't invited to a birthday party, The Evil Queen from Snow White was jealous she wasn't the fairest in the land, the enchantress in Rapunzel was given the baby as payment for stealing from her, and so on.
 * Well based on the way the Crawler speaks, it seems it does things because pain makes it happy.
 * Why didn't Logan just tell the people why he's taxing them to death? Tell them that they're about to be attacked by a nigh unstoppable force and Albion has to do what it can to survive? What, did they think they'd pull a Mass Effect and say: "Ah yes...*finger quotes*The Crawler*fingerquotes*, a race of sentinent shadow beings hell bent on eradicating all civilization as we know it. Bah, we've already dismissed that claim!"?? Even if he didn't think they'd believe him, then why didn't he say something like "Citizens of Albion! We are about to be invaded by a force many times stronger than us. If we are to survive, we must do what we can to make ourselves as strong as we possibly can!"
 * Maybe he didn't want to cause mass hysteria. Sure, not saying anything to the people wasn't the best course of action, but maybe he expected the people to understand after the crisis was dealt with.
 * Well, he explained all this during, yet no one seems to buy it. Of all the people that testify, only two say they don't wish  , yet they leave his fate up to you. Mass hysteria or not, if you are the ruler, you HAVE to let your people know. That'd be like if Churchill decided to be a tyrant to the British people on the eve of the London Blitz rather than...y'know...telling them "Hey, just fyi, we're gonna be invaded soon, so we'd better prepare and prepare fast."


 * Why if you drain Bowerstone Lake and mine it for resources don't you find the temple of heroes, or whatever it was called in Fable II?
 * This is annoying me. why cant you just be all evil and not abolish child labor UNTIL AFTER THE CRAWLER and THEN abolish it. and so on with issues that can be temporary,such as higher taxes, UNTIL THE CRAWLER, Prohibition UNTIL AFTER THE CRAWLER and so on and so forth and then lower taxes ect
 * Because after the fight against the Crawler, Reaver "is the Industry" leaves, presumably for the re-youthification. Since he has complete control over Bowerstone Industry and is still alive he won't have any competitors. Dunno about the taxes and prohibition, though, since those are in Hobson's field.


 * How is Theresa even alive in Fable II and onward? A book in Fable II establishes that the canon ending for the original game, pre Lost Chapters is the hero killing her for power.
 * This is covered in the Wild Mass Guessings. The Chamber of Fate establishes as canon that your hero did not kill her (a more reliable source then a book talking about legend and hearsay) and Fable had an identical sword you didn't have to kill anyone for.


 * So, Brom . Shanked by Jack in Oakvale, buried Lychfield Graveyard which is relatively on the opposite side of the continent. Was Jack just being a complete dick and dragged his body all the way to Bargate to torment Scarlet Robe every step of the way, or did nobody just tell the funeral procession when they should stop? Personally, I'm guessing dickishness, but it's still an odd distance to go to bury a man to me.
 * I like to think that Brom once pissed off Jack of Blades somehow at that spot, so by shanking Brom and burying him at that spot is a mixture of Whos Laughing Now and Take That.


 * Where the heck did this apparently old monarchy spring from? Basically we have your parent and then your brother, and that's it. Why is everyone in game acting like it is some long established traditional thing. Heck even the architecture of the castle does not make sense, we see portraits and statues of apparently old monarchs, where did they come from, where did they rule? I also don't remember Fable 1 or 2 having any real central government for mom/dad to take over. Did Teresa use miracle grow or something, maybe a chia-government or something involving sea-monkeys?
 * There wasn't a monarchy, but there were aristocrats around Fairfax Castle and other important citizens, presumably. And "Lord" Lucien, which seemed to imply there was some sort of system in place. Money and power would have often passed onto children often, and without a central government, that's who would have. leadership. That's the portraits though. As for why the people act so enthused, perhaps that's just the remaining goodwill from Dear Old Dad.


 * Why were only the poor suffering under Logan? The dwellers, the factory employees or the hippies from the marsh can't possibly have any significant amount of money. Yet all Brightwall complains about is not having a library and the nobles get wild parties. Shouldn't Logan tax everyone into oblivion, seeing as he isn't actually evil and just needs the money to safe everyone?
 * This has some basis in reality... To keep up his personal guard and stuff, Logan probably needs the support of the well-off. Or maybe Logan had instituted a flat tax policy that was OK for the middle class and up but punishing to the poor.
 * The taxes weren't the main problem for anyone. The dwellers were starving because they lived off the forests that were being chopped down to provide lumber for the war effort, the hippies' marsh was being polluted, and the urban poor were being forced to work for Reaver. The rich were being heavily taxed, but money was the only thing Logan wanted from them so they stayed living in relative peace.
 * Why is Millifields, the posh, elite area of the kingdom, infested with bandits and balverines? I can accept that Reaver's newly disbanded society would leave some nasty surprises, but the guards are pitifully undermanned and citizens get murdered nearly every time I set foot in that place. Even the most backwater of other settlements can keep enemies away from the population centers. Why would the elite choose to live in such a death trap? Why can't either regime make this place less deadly?
 * While buying up and then renting out every property in the games is the best way to make money, wouldn't it have a massively detrimental effect on the country? All those rental fees are flowing out of the economy (normally, property owners would re-spend that income on food, clothing, furniture etc. and keep it circulating, and those who already own their own homes have more to spend on the same) and into your personal coffers, where it will probably either just pile up because there's barely anything left you can spend it on, or get used to finance a massive army in Fable III. No wonder the economy is on the verge of collapse near the end of F3 - it's your fault too if you do this, not just Logan's.