Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • Why did the under sketch of the paintings in 4-4 depict the cases that Justice worked on? This particular point, while being very mysterious (i.e. why, and how was Vera (or Drew) able to know the details of the crimes and redraw it), was never explained.
    • It was said that Drew Misham took an interest in Apollo after hearing about his connection to Phoenix.
  • Why did Daryan confess in 4-3? Apollo's entire strategy was to call on a key witness, Machi Tobaye. If Machi testified in that court that he would smuggle a cocoon away from Borginia, then he could avoid both death penalties in US/Japan as well as Borginia. By itself, it makes sense. But Daryan's entire strategy was to say Lamiroir was lying. What stops him from simply saying Machi is lying as well? It would be easier to accuse Machi of lying than Lamiroir of lying. Any rational person would choose no death penalty over death penalty. Daryan was actually right in saying only decisive evidence could prove Apollo's case.
    • My guess is that they left other evidence behind them. By getting Machi to testify, Apollo could probably have him explain exactly how the cocoon was obtained, how he got in contact with Daryan, and point the police to any other people who were involved in the smuggling, plus any sort of paper trail that Daryan left behind. This cumulative evidence could then be used to get a conviction.
    • But Machi WAS decisive! He was a confirmed cocoon smuggler. In Borginia, cocoon smuggling is punishable by death. That is what the problem was. Machi only smuggled and helped destroy the contraband; he didn't kill anyone, so the only crime he could be charged with was smuggling. However, the penalties for this smuggling differed: "US" was jail time, Borgina was death. Daryan's plan wasn't just to say that Lamiroir was lying, but that Machi wouldn't name him as the murderer and accomplice because of Machi's fear of being executed. What Apollo did was that he convinced Machi to confess and serve his sentence in "the US" rather than stay silent and be extradited for execution. The defendant, in this situation, would confess and name the murderer to not get the death penalty.
  • In case 4-3, the stage tower is said at first to be 30 feet, then 20, and finally 15. Why the inconsistency?
    • Because the tower could move up and down, presumably.
  • In Apollo Justice case 3 (Turnabout Seranade) the characters regularly reaffirm that the murder weapon, a 45mm revolver, is so powerful that it would dislocate the shoulder of an adult of average build. How is it then, that someone as small as Machi is the prime suspect, when it should be pretty obvious that if he had fired the gun, the recoil would have done a lot more damage to damage to him?
    • It bugs me that this bugs everyone. They reaffirm just as often, if not more so, that an experienced shooter can easily go away unscathed. Thus, the Judge assumed that Machi was experienced, as he was the only one who could have conceivably committed the crime. What baffles me is that I'm the only one to notice this.
      • I noticed that as well, but I can't convince myself that experience would be worth anything whatsoever when the attacker has the body of a child. Even the real killer gets injured by using the weapon, and he's a fully trained and experienced member of the police.
    • Additionally, Prosecutor Gavin notes that the authorities want a suspect to be found and prosecuted quickly, due to the high-profile nature of the incident. He's aware that there are logical flaws in the case, but he isn't being given the time to investigate properly.
    • Ahm, what about the fact that to even get the gun in the first place, tiny Machi would have to wrestle it away from a highly trained Interpol agent that easily dwarfs him?
    • Also, Machi would have to bring the dead body of this Interpol agent on the stage, all by himself, in maybe 15 minutes. This Interpol agent was probably three time his size. How did they explain that?
      • Like someone said, the case is so high profile that the D.A.s are putting pressure on the cops and prosecutor's office to find and prosecute a suspect as soon as possible. The case has numerous logical flaws, as Gavin knows, but his bosses are rushing things too much to allow a full investigation. Since Machi is too scared to tell his side, the best Gavin can do is try to push Apollo to find the truth in the trial itself. Such politically-motivated railroading isn't without precedent in real life.
        • You'd think they'd try harder though. What looks worse - taking longer to find a suspect, or going ahead with a trial in which an 11 year old boy is being accused of killing a grown man three times his size? That's just asking to get your case thrown out. Politically motivated rail-roading generally involves an upside to the rail-roader.
        • Also, as a bit of fridge logic, think about the actual outcome of the case. "The D.A. pressured the police and prosecutors to find out who killed an Interpol agent, so they quickly placed blame on an eleven-year-old child who was believed to be legally blind. During the trial, though, a well-foreheaded defense attorney proved that it was in fact a full-grown fully-trained member of the police force who committed the crime and also used the child as an accomplice in committing another crime that broke international accords and was politically motivated as far as the Chief Justice's office, and was the best friend and bandmate of the prosecutor who accused the child." Would you have any faith in your police force after reading that?
    • Word of God says that the case was written based on the assumption that Daryan was the one manipulating the investigation and the police but that ultimately they failed to make this clear in the game.
  • In Ace Attorney 4, where did everyone go? Not only is Phoenix left with only Ema -- a side character who appeared only once, and that was in the "postscript" game -- as support, none of the "old guard" appear in the flashback case... which takes place only two months after the final case of Ace Attorney 3. Would Edgeworth, Maya, Pearl and Gumshoe really just stand back as Nick's life went "boom"? Or was the need to clear the decks for a new cast -- and have Phoenix radically altered in terms of personality-- just so strong it defied all laws of common sense?
    • The need to clear the decks was really that strong.
      • It should be noted that it's never stated or even implied that Phoenix completely lost contact with them, but they have lives too, Maya has to be watching over Kurain now. Also, Phoenix went through a lot those 7 years, it must have been trying to completely lose your life's work and lose faith in the justice system all at once, and end up working as a poker player in a dive of a restaraunt
      • In JFA, Maya is revealed to have willingly cut herself off from the outside world for the sake of training. Now that she's the new Master of Kurain, she'd almost be forced to take charge and do so again. She has more willpower than her bubbly personality gives her credit for; it's doubtful that she'd even have heard about it, despite living two hours out of town. However, she's the only one I can think of an excuse for...
      • Finally, at one point you can examine a stack of tapes belonging to Phoenix, and the dialogue states that these are "Steel Samurai", "Pink Princess", etc, and that Phoenix is being told to not only watch them but write reports on them. If that isn't Maya staying in contact with Phoenix, I don't know what is.
        • Also during the bits in the past we see, what would his friends be doing? I see no evidence to support the fact he's not hanging out with them in between those scenes, but we don't see that, we see his quest for justice which is more a personal thing and I can understand why he wouldn't bring anyone along for them except maybe Maya who as stated above is busy. Same as in the present, Phoenix is rarely in the office and we never see him when he's not on his "secret mission."
      • This Troper always believed (though a bit romantically) that Phoenix Wright figured something was way off, and so passed along a messege to everyone that they were not to interfere... Or something along those lines.
      • Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't around - the game is from Apollo's perspective and Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his past. Considering the nature of Phoenix's secret mission, I'm sure that Edgeworth was involved behind the scenes. (He was probably a mentor to Klavier too.)
      • And Gumshoe was there in trial, ya know.
  • When did Phoenix acquire the ability to transport evidence across space and time? In the last case of Apollo Justice, when you have the ability to look in both the past and the present to see the evidence that Phoenix has collected, Phoenix presents evidence that he can't possibly have at the time he presents it, and draws conclusions based on knowledge he will have in the future. For example, the picture of Trucy's mother that you get from Valant Grammarye? You use it to break Zak's Psyche lock SIX MONTHS EARILER! I should probably stress that you get the picture after Zak DIES! And then there's the whole thing with Vera. How does "seven years ago" Phoenix have any clue that the bottle on the desk could possibly be Vera's good luck charm? If it was in the present, I would be fine with it, but our Phoenix hasn't seen that bottle before in his life. Also, why does "seven years ago" Phoenix know to suggest Kristoph as Vera's secret client? He has no reason to suspect Kristoph at that time, not until the events seven years later, when he sees that bottle of nail polish in Kristoph's cell? It boggles the mind!
    • In between the third and fourth games Phoenix received a Shout-Out from Haruhi Suzumiya. This Shout-Out must have been of such potency that it allowed a sliver of Haruhi's reality warping power to pass into Phoenix. .....OK, I've got nothing.
    • Phoenix has a few things going for him... one, he's a freaking badass. Two, he's become accustomed to weird crap happening around him. Three, a few of those things (like the nail polish) could have been pieced together with the evidence at hand. In fact, I'd say that the only reason you HAVE to present the future one in that case is so so that you have to talk to Kristoph and see his bitchin' Black Psych-Locks.
    • OK, so how about when you talk to Brushel about Thalassa? When you talk to Brushel after the death of Drew, he tells you about Thalassa's first husband, and Phoenix admits he didn't know about him. Flashback to him breaking Zak's Psyche-lock, six months earlier, and he's talking about Thalassa's first husband as if he'd known it all along!
    • It was probbably supposed to just be a simulation of Phoenix's logic as he investigated these things over several years. He's put these elements together in his mind; what you play isn't really what happened.
      • OK, so how did Phoenix learn what Zak would've said? And what would be the point to him using a "logic simulation", rather then it being a recording from the camera in the PaPa cap?
        • Simple enough: The jury doesn't have points in Spurious Logic.
    • The MASON system is not supposed to be an entirely accurate summation of Phoenix's memory in chronological order. He states at the start that it's to be played like a game, which is what it is - kind of a game allowing the jury to discover what happened instead of just infodumping. It is not chronologically accurate because it's easier to explain Phoenix's logic. The items are not taken back and forth from the future to the past, as this is not actually Phoenix's memory, it's a computer program.
    • Here's my theory. First off, with the nail polish, Phoenix knew Gavin before he talked to Vera, as he presumably saw him with that distinctive type of nail polish. Also, when you present the picture of Thalassa, you only talk about seeing a kid with bracelets who has a similar power to Trucy, which he could have done before talking to Zak. As for how Phoenix knew about Thalassa's first husband... Well, it's possible that Valant told him that. Long story short, any evidence we present that Phoenix shouldn't have he actually got elsewhere.
  • Related to the 'Where did Everybody go' entry for Apollo Justice above, how come after the flashback case, not ONE person came to Phoenix's aid after he presented false evidence? Especially since Miles Edgeworth had the same thing happen to him just a few years ago? Gumshoe and Edgeworth should have been more than ready to help him clear his name, but he was left out in the cold. Even if they couldn't, you'd think they'd offer him help elsewhere, such as a new job behind the scenes. At the very least, you'd expect Maya would offer a spare bedroom in the Fey Manor... not that that would help much, considering distance and lack of job opportunities out there.
    • Considering it was Kristoph Gavin behind it all, coming up with actual evidence to say that Phoenix wasn't guilty of forging evidence would have been pretty damn hard, even if Edgeworth was on the case, because Kristoph covered his tracks. Then again, he stuffed up later along the line, but that took Phoenix 7 years.
    • Actually, Phoenix states that after he presented the false evidence, the only person who would stand by him as the Bar Association decided his fate was Kristoph Gavin himself. (Talk about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Maybe he was trying to throw suspicion off of himself?) Phoenix says that the reason he hung out with Gavin at all is because he trusted him...until the whole "you knew Shadi Smith was bald so you're the murderer!" thing came up.
      • Maybe this is just me, but I read it more as Gavin was the only one on the Bar Association committee who stood up for Phoenix. His friends could certainly have remained loyal while, at the same time, being completely unable to do anything to help him clear his name.
    • To be more precise, the MASON system implies that Phoenix figured Gavin was responsible during his talk with Vera. Problem is, Kristoph couldn't be convicted of forging evidence, because there was no evidence that he commissioned the forged evidence, as the last case of Apollo Justice proved. Well, no conclusive evidence, anyway. He was pretty much guilty in the eyes of the court in that case. He was lucky he was already convicted of a similar crime, because Phoenix changed the entire legal system just to get back at him. Still, kinda proves that nobody from the original cast could have helped Phoenix, not that they needed to, he was able to support himself with the help of Trucy, and got back at Kristoph on his own thanks to his new role as the Chessmaster (with a little help from Apollo, of course).
      • It's also heavily implied that once Phoenix actually lost his badge, he apparently gave up immediately trying to get it back (probably because no one would believe him). Since he wasn't terribly concerned with getting his lawyer credentials back, why would anyone else be? As far as getting him a job, he did get assigned a "secret mission" to overhaul the legal system. Considering he's not even a lawyer, that's a hefty burden; someone is most likely pulling strings behind the scenes.
        • Edgeworth must still have a prominent position - something tells me that he's the one pulling those strings. (Compare it to when he 'hires' Franziska and the Judge's brother in order to extend the trial in 3-5 to one more day so that Phoenix has time to recover, investigate the case further and rescue Maya.
  • At the end of Apollo Justice, Phoenix goes back to playing piano / cards. Question: why? It is obvious that he misses life as an attorney, and life as a poker player doesn't seem terribly profitable even with Trucy's magic shows and Apollo's detective work on the side. Sure, there is the whole disbarred thing, but I rather doubt that would still be in effect when both Apollo and Klavier proved Kristoph Gavin was behind it.
    • I seem to remember reading an English-speaking player's comment/synopsis when the game first came out in Japan that mentioned Phoenix was going to try and get his badge back. Since this isn't mentioned in any other synopsis afterwards, I assumed whoever noted it must have made a mistake in translating it...but it seems a really strange mistake to make. Perhaps it was wishful thinking, or maybe just the logical assumption that Phoenix would retrieve his lawyer-hood. As to why....well, probably the same reason Phoenix was (arguably) given a completely altered personality in the AJ game -- the writers wanted the players to side with Apollo and not get too distracted by what Phoenix was up to.
    • He said he'd go back to playing cards for a while, but when talking about his future he did mention that he'd "maybe take the Bar exam again".
      • His specific wording was "Now that I've got some time on my hands, maybe I'll take [piano] lessons. Or maybe I'll take the Bar Exam...again." And then he laughs at the apparent humor.
      • Phoenix's character has always been one where he wants to be able to protect those closest to him. He became a lawyer for that reason specifically. Right now, he doesn't have to be a lawyer to do that, so he may well not try to get his badge back as long as he can still protect Trucy without it.
    • In Case 1, Phoenix admits to forging a piece of decisive evidence. Does that sound like the work of a reputable attorney to you? On top of that, he himself even admits he doesn't belong behind the defense's desk anymore. But then again, we're talking about a guy who somehow became chair of the Jurist System as well.
      • He likely was saying that because it was his only real option. He couldn't have just said "Well somehow this mysterious piece of evidence landed in my lap and I used it," because nobody would believe him. It would be sort of like "The Boy who Cried Wolf," only it would make him sound whiny instead of a liar when the truth came out.
      • It's been a while since I played through 4-1, but IIRC, the forged evidence wasn't so much "decisive"; it was to trick Kristoph into saying that it was fake, since only the killer would know such a thing. Kind of like 2-2; Franziska enters a photograph that everyone knows is illegal, but its purpose wasn't to use as evidence, it was used to give the judge doubt.
        • In fact, it's very much like 3-3, at the end. Phoenix presented the ear medication as if it were decisive evidence; everyone knew he was bluffing, but Furio Tigre fell into the trap anyway because he didn't realize Phoenix's purpose: to get the real criminal to reveal something he shouldn't have known about.
  • A certain famous magician mysteriously disappears. Several years later, an equally famous musician with a mysterious past and amnesia appears out of nowhere. How come not one person has ever noticed that these two people look identical?
    • It's been about a decade since Thalassa's accident. She was reported dead, not disappeared. The musician is a recent sensation, and I think this tour is her first time actually being back in this country. She wears a veil and doesn't even speak English in public. All in all, someone of the "Elvis isn't dead" mindset and familiarity with both could probably pick up on the similarities... given time. But not enough time has passed...
    • And this will definitely be happening soon, considering Thalassa shed her veil and the Troupe Gramarye is back in the spotlight.
    • But even if nobody else recognizes her, Valant, of all people, should have. Considering the fact that he likes her and they spent so much time today. Especially since he must know how Lamiroir looks like very well, as he impersonated her for the magic trick. There's no way he didn't recognize her.
      • It's possible that he did recognize her and he just didn't mention it, given how she has amnesia and clearly doesn't remember him anyway. There was one line in the MASON system (in the present-day segment, outside the coliseum) where Valant muses that they never actually saw Thalassa's body after the accident or something like that, so it's pretty likely that he started putting two and two together at least by that point.
    • How was it that no-one recognized Zak apart from Phoenix and Kristoph, when he used to be famous?
      • He was wearing a hat? Marilyn Monroe and Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent also prove that if you can completely change your composure, pulling off a disguise with very little in the way of an actual disguise is completely doable.
      • But any composure change would have been nullified by the fact that he was dead when the police arrived.
      • It's been 7 years. He's lost his hair, grown a beard, no doubt has several more wrinkles, and isn't wearing his rather distinctive magician's outfit. That last being a big point, too, I'd say: As Zak Gramerye, he was a 6'+ tall man in a pink silk hat and cape...it's really likely that that nobody would have recognized him out of costume even when he wasn't deliberately presenting himself as a different person, who was 7 years older and balder than when last seen.
  • Why is Romein so cryptic about who the witness is? She has a name, there was no need for all that 'siren' business.
    • My best guess is that he was too weak to actually state her name. Now, I've never heard "Lamiroir" pronounced in real life, but it looks like it could take a great bit of effort for a man that got shot with a Hand Cannon and was seconds away from death to actually say. On the other hand, "the siren" could be whispered with very little effort.
    • Plus, Lamiroir's name literally is "siren". Romein had supposedly learned English as a second language, so it's possible he reverted back to his native tongue as his brain functions ceased.
    • The really confusing bit about that is that he names Lamiroir, when it would make a lot more sense to name Daryan.
      • He clearly said he didn't know who shot him.
  • Why didn't Zak just show Phoenix that page in the first place? Think of all the misery that would have prevented.
    • Misplaced loyalty towards his friend, perhaps?
    • He's a massive jerk? He possibly shoots his wife, steals his partner's future, rejects a perfectly competent defense attorney because he can't play poker, abandons his child, promising to come back but never does, and then when he shows up 7 years latter, not to see his child or apologize, but to play poker! That he cheats at! Gah! What a jerk!
      • You are quite adept at taking things out of context and twisting facts. 1. Zak (possibly) shoots his wife on accident and regrets it. 2. He inherited the magic techniques from Magnifi; it's not his fault his partner is basically screwed without them. 3. Zak's "competent defense attorney" is a terrible human being, which he discovered through poker. 4. Zak would have gone to Trucy had he not been killed. 5. He shows up seven years later mainly to ensure Trucy's inheritance of Magnifi's techniques. Poker was secondary. You've got a point about him abandoning Trucy, but that's it.
        • It's not his fault. Understanding his words is a two step process. Step 1: Read [dead link] up on these six [dead link] comics [dead link]. SPOILERS WITHIN. Step 2: Consider that due to Memetic Mutation, this interpretation is often considered canon. Or at least hilarious.
          • It's not his fault that he completely ignored context and canon in favor of a memetic, yet wrong, interpretation of events? Right.
    • Being a jerk is one thing, but having no sense of self-preservation is another.
      • Sometimes, if you want to pull off truly awe-inspiring feats of douchebaggery, you need to put your life on the line. Zak was probably thinking, "Hmmm... yes, showing him this diary page could save my life. But would it help me reach the highest levels of jerkdom?"
      • To answer my own question, it was because if showing that page failed to clear him, then it would be entered into evidence and he would have to make his escape without it, so Trucy would lose all chance of ever inheriting Magnifi's tricks.
        • That doesn't really make sense, though. The contents of the page would be on the record and copied into multiple case files -- of a rather high-profile case! -- so there would be no doubt that Zak inherited Magnifi's tricks, and thus that Zak's later assignment of the rights to Trucy was valid.
      • I think it is because the page would've been decisive evidence against Zak. Think about it. Zak is on trial for a murder that he didn't commit, and the missing page from the diary that Magnifi had labelled Zak as his heir. It's a perfect motive for murder. There was no way Phoenix Wright could win the case and discover the truth even with the true page. That is why Phoenix decided the Jurist System was needed and made it a seven-year mission.
  • Speaking of jerks, what is with everyone in the flashback trial of Zak? Did Phoenix, Klavier, and Gumshoe all take jackass pills that morning? Phoenix is unusually condescending towards Klavier, Klavier is being much more cocky than normal, and Gumshoe is being unprecedentedly arrogant towards Phoenix.
    • It bugs me that this bugs everyone. Phoenix has every right to be cocky. He just beat Dahlia Hawthorne and Godot, closing the book on one of the biggest unfinished parts of his life in the process and finally surpassed his mentor as well. Plus, Klavier was a complete greenhorn. For the first time, Phoenix wasn't going up against some super-experienced prosecutor (yes, Godot had never prosecuted before, but he was by no means a newbie). Of course Phoenix would be a little cocky. Regarding Klavier, he's a seventeen-year-old rock star who managed to pass the bar. That's three years before Miles Edgeworth, who was famous for being a prosecuting prodigy. If he was acting humble, I'd declare that some pretty gross Character Derailment. As for Gumshoe... okay, I don't really have an explanation. Maybe he got a raise after State v. Iris and it went to his head?
      • Regarding the last one, Investigations takes place between the third game and this one, and it provides plenty of evidence that Gumshoe's salary continued to do nothing but plummet. Of course, that was made after this game. Perhaps the second installment will shed more light on things?
      • While you have a point about Phoenix, you'd think that defeating Manfred, who had a 40-year win streak, solving a 15-year-old murder case, and taking down Gant, all in his first year as a lawyer would have given him a pretty big ego boost when Justice for All rolled around. So... maybe him being arrogant in the 4-4 flashback isn't as out of character as we thought, but still a bit so.
    • Phoenix has taken on plenty of prodigy prosecutors during his time, namely Edgeworth, Godot, and the von Karmas who are all presumably better than Klavier (and more experienced when Phoenix faced them). He's confident in his skills and I think mentions that Klavier is just the new "prodigy" that the prosecution office is selling. As stated, Klavier is a rock star who just got his first hit and is getting his ego boosted further by the fact that the prosecutor's office is praising him as a prodigy and putting him against Wright, probably the best defense attorney in the "US." Gumshoe didn't seem that cocky to me but rather more playfully edging Wright on. Wright is his rival in the courtroom (although they have worked on the same side many times) and Gumshoe wants to get his win.
    • As for Klavier, I think that the "tip" Kristoph gave him explains his behavior pretty well.

Kristoph: "The attorney who'll be there in my place tomorrow is not to be trusted. Don't even give him the benefit of your respect."

  • Isn't Lamiroir meant to be a native English speaker? If that's the case, why was she unable to find a better term for the ventilation shaft grate than 'some kind of small window?'
    • She woke up in Borginia with no memory of her past and magical knowledge of a language. There are bigger problems conceptually than her not knowing one English term.
    • But I've seen a documentary about a man who suddenly lost all memories of his own identity but could still speak English. That I can believe. What I can't believe is that the bullet would remove memory of one term from her brain but leave the rest intact.
      • Memory loss comes in various forms and it is possible to forget only one thing or person while remembering everything else.
      • The obvious answer would be that that wasn't the only word she forgot, just the only one that came up in conversation.
      • My understanding was that the amnesia from her accident coupled with ending up in Borginia made Borginian her "native tongue," and English her "second" language. A bit farfetched, yes, but this is Ace Attorney we're talking about.
        • She says that she doesn't know how she came to know English, so it is her "first" language.
        • What if Borginian was her first language anyway, and English her second? We don't know anything about her prior to her career with Troupe Gramayre. She could have been a Borginian immigrant anyway, in which case it would make sense that she'd default to Borginian when she wakes up with no memory, surrounded by people speaking Borginian.
      • Maybe she just didn't know what a ventilation shaft was? It is a pretty common thing, but I wouldn't put it past a native English speaker to be unfamiliar of that particular term.
    • Also consider that she had signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement regarding her "teleportation" trick, and indicating that she had traveled through the ventilation tunnels might have given away too many details about the trick.
      • Uh, it's not just one term she could not remember. She was also unable to name the grate as the place she heard it from, even though it would not have revealed the trick. In fact, it is possible to interpret it as a mild case of dysnomia.
    • I'm a native French speaker, but I spend all my time either on English forums or listening to English shows, and I often fumble with words in my native tongue that I know in English but can't remember in french until someone guesses right based on my description. And before someone asks, yes, I am otherwise entirely natural-sounding, there's just some words that I know I know but can't recall on the spot. I'd say Lamiroir doing the same can be excused considering she learned Borginian and probably wasn't exposed to English frequently.
  • OK, in the second case of Apollo Justice, Apollo says to Trucy that because of a case (case 5 of game 1) of Phoenix's that he read, he always checks the exhaust pipes of cars, to see if there's anything in there. However, if he knows the case so well, why, when he meets Ema Skye, does he not recognize the name? Even if he doesn't remember that she was a witness, he should at least remember that the defendant for that case was Lana Skye, and make the connection!
    • Maybe he only read the things pertaining to the investigation itself, as a sort of 'How To Find Clues' guide, and didn't pay much attention to the actual people involved. Or he just has a bad memory. Or both.
    • Alternatively, maybe it's just a coincidence that there's a case in a previous game that matches this description, and he's actually referring to something else.
    • Or Ema's name was withheld from the public because she was a minor.
  • In flashback case, why didn't Phoenix bring up the fact that he couldn't possibly have had the time to have a forgery made in time for the case, and suggest a search for the real client?
    • Because it would be impossible to prove that. The reason Kristoph was so confident that no-one could work out that he was Shadi's previous lawyer is that attorneys are registered the day before the trial. And Shadi's testimony would be useless, because being the defendant, he had reason to lie.
    • It probably wouldn't have done him any good anyway. Whether he knew the evidence was forged or not, it was an irresponsible act to introduce it as evidence when his full knowledge of its provenance was "A girl in a magician's costume handed it to me in the hallway", one that would cost a real-world lawyer his license for sure.
  • In case 2, one of the big twists is that the murderer shot from inside the noodle stand. Yet wouldn't this have left a bullet hole in the front side of the noodle stand?. They spend so much time debating where the murderer must've stood to kill the doctor, yet (when factoring in the entry wound) it should've been clear before the trial even began!
    • The killer probably slid the gun through the curtain at the front of the stand, then fired. Wocky wouldn't have seen that, the doctor's head would have been in the way.
  • At the end of 4-4, Phoenix simply tells the jurors to vote "Innocent" or "Guilty", not something like "Push the left button for innocent, and the right for guilty." Juror 6's buttons aren't Braille labeled. Juror 6 is then revealed to be Lamiroir, who is blind.
    • Not quite. At the end of 4-3, it is suggested that she may get eye surgery. After this vote, it is implied that she did.
    • Besides, it's not like nobody knew at this point that she was blind. Phoenix could have briefed her on how it worked beforehand.
    • Going back to the implications of the first rebuttal, I believe she says something to the tune of "I read in the handbook that [such and such]", signaling her eyes were working just fine now.
  • The MASON system in Apollo Justice. Phoenix uses his magatama to crack people into talking and you lose some of your life energy when you screw up just like in the old days. I know that Phoenix says to think of this as a game, but it just makes no sense to have the Life Meter system in place for this period since lost life doesn't transfer to Apollo once you play as him again plus nothing happens to Phoenix if you lose all your life energy during a psyche-lock.
    • It's for decoration. A callback to Phoenix's days. That's all it probably is.
    • Also, that's just how the Magatama works. Even if the life meter doesn't transfer over to Apollo (and I think it replenished itself before the next trial segment in JFA and T&T anyway), getting things incorrect in the Psychelock sections still costs you. Besides, not getting penalized in these parts would make them too easy.
  • Case 4-3. So if the Borginian Cocoon Daryan smuggled over was burned, and there's super-strict export laws on them...are we to assume the Chief Justice's son died of incuritis after the case?
    • I guess so, unless the case highlighted the ridiculousness of the Borginian cocoon laws enough for people to get really incensed about it to the point where Borginian law was forced to change, or there was residue left in Gavin's guitar case that retained the healing properties.
    • Alternatively to the above theory, Borginia could have simply sent over some of the already-created remedy. It's been a while since I played, but I'm pretty sure that would work, even if they'd be a bit reluctant to do so.
  • This isn't so much a beef with the games as it is with a Headscratchers complaint. In Apollo Justice, with the MASON system, people complain that using Kristoph's nail-polish in the 'present' to break Vera's Psychlock in the 'past' doesn't make sense. It appears everyone has forgotten that it's more-or-less a simulation of Phoenix's investigation and a tool to figure out the logic behind the investigation. The nail-polish was most likely seen at Phoenix's disbarment and/or during his 'friendship' with Kristoph. The future, the evidence is collected in the cell to show why it's important, and the one that Phoenix used against Vera was hers. As for the photo and the truth about Apollo, that is more up to debate, but odds are that Phoenix just found a file photo of Thalassa. As for why he was carrying it about? Perhaps he knew of the performance rights after all (no one said that the inner monologues were strictly Phoenix's or his at all).
    • Also, you can examine areas with the MASON system just as you can without it, and the bottle of nail polish is clearly visible on the table in Drew Studio. When you examine it, Drew spazzes and tells you not to touch it because it's Vera's and she will get very angry if you do. It doesn't take too much of a leap of faith to connect the "good luck charm" with the bottle of nail polish, even without knowing that Kristoph uses the same brand. And the problem of using Kristoph's bottle? An identical one is sitting right there on the table. Phoenix could've used Vera's own bottle of nail polish to break her psyche-lock when he did the investigating for real.
  • Considering the fact that Ema Skye's hobbyist forensics are constantly turning up evidence that the actual forensics team completely missed, how did she fail to become a crime scene tech? Hell, you'd think they'd let her in just because she gets better toys from magazines than they get as professionals. "You can be a CSI, but you have to buy your own luminol."
    • Probably as a joke, or...her methods might be considered to be unconventional to the police force.
      • It's explained that she was about to become a crime scene tech, but she failed the examination.
    • Knowing her For Science! attitude towards investigations, it's possible Ema failed the test on procedural grounds. There's no doubt Ema's got talent, but she's gets so eager to play with a new toy that she blows off orders and common sense until she comes down.
  • In 4-4, which is just as full of this as 3-5, how did Kristoph Gavin know so much about the case? He was in solitary confinement, and even though he does get some news from the outside world, Spark Brushel said (or at least implied) several times that nobody had taken Drew Misham's death to press yet. I know his little brother is the prosecutor, but 1) the recess wasn't long enough for Klavier to be able to brief Kristoph about the case, and 2) based on Klavier's behavior during the first part of the trial and early on in the second, it doesn't seem like he'd be particularly trusting of his dear brother. The fact itself that he knew so much about the case when he testified should have been proof enough to point the finger of justice at him.
    • Well, the game does imply that Kristoph may not be completely normal. I mean, he's been stalking everyone from the time of that case. Even Zak, whom no one could find. Even when he was in jail, everyone felt as though Kristoph had their eyes on him or her.
    • "Many things pass by my desk, and I have nothing to do but read". I believe he says this when you visit him in solitary. In other words, he's using his influence to get info on the case the same way he used it to get such a nice prison cell.
  • It's a casual thing to suggest asking the Borginian government to give a cocoon up to test residue from burning it, but completely impossible for a major politician to ask for one when the news shows he has legitimate need.
    • Who says the Borginians "gave up" a cocoon? They could have burned it while it was in Borginia. Then, they could have either sent the residue (if the residue cannot be used to make the poison) or described it in detail.
  • If the cocoons can't leave Borginia, what exactly stops the victims from going to Borginia for treatment?
    • I think that there's nothing to stop it, but it's because of that there are so few people outside Borginia who know the power of the cocoon. Lamiroir doesn't know why it was banned for smuggling outside of the country when she's supposedly citizen of Borginia; if a citizen doesn't know much, what do you expect of foreigners?
      • So no doctor would know?
        • A doctor would, but John Q. Averageguy wouldn't. Also, even if the doctor mentioned it, Borginia is supposedly somewhere in northern Europe, so perhaps not a lot of people would be able to afford going there. Finally, it's mentioned that the minister's son is the first case of incuritis in America - perhaps it was only diagnosed in a later stage and they can't move the minister's son anymore, therefore requiring someone to get the cocoon to him.
    • In addition to the public being generally clueless about the cocoons, we don't know much about incuritis. Perhaps incuritis afflicts the body so badly that leaving the country has a chance of mortality around the same as the doctors deciding to have a competition of "who can knock off the most body parts with an oxygen tank".
  • Why was Lamiroir considered an appropriate jurist in the final case? I mean, leaving aside that the defense attorney and his assistant are her children, which wasn't common knowledge, there's still the fact that she has very close ties to one of Apollo's previous cases and was very much sympathetic to him. Did no one besides Phoenix vet the jurists? Anyone else should have picked up on that bias in about three seconds. Even she was questioning whether she was qualified to serve!
    • I'm more concerned that a foreign celebrity in our country for a tour was chosen for the jury. Doesn't seem right to recruit tourists and foreign visitors to serve jury duty.
      • It's shown that Lamiroir is part of Troupe Gramarye, and became Lamiroir in some bizarre circumstances. Since it's never explicitly stated where the Troupe were from originally, she could perfectly well be from whatever country this game is set (Japan, US, etc).
    • Lamoir herself asks to talk to Phoenix and says something like: "...it says in the Jurist handbook that "no jurists may be connected to the case". Phoenix replies by saying something like: "I've checked all your backgrounds. None of you were involved in the investigation or bring up of the case." This is what the ACTUAL American Jury system states. It doesn't matter if a jurist is connected to one of the lawyers or anything presides being involved in the ACTUAL INVESTIGATION. In other words, the only rule saying that a person can't be a jury member is if they were involved in the case on trial, not the lawyers or anything else.
    • It's possible that Phoenix was able to prove that she was from the country the game is set in without revealing to members of the legal system that she's Apollo's mother.
  • Case 4-3. You prove that the pianist is playing with only one hand by using the video. However, Klavier, who would know the sheet music well, says that it would be possible to play the song with only one hand, meaning the part in question does not have to have both hands playing at that part, making it impossible to conclusively say that he pressed the switch at that moment. Klavier realizes that the bass clef portion is missing only after the video is presented as evidence, which is illogical since he should have known that it was missing while listening to the playback unless the part pointed out only has the treble clef portion playing. Since there apparently is only one hand playing during the part in question, there is no proof that the pianist did press the switch.
    • First off, it's the top part (treble clef) that's missing. Second, he very easily could have been paying close attention that time. As for 'knowing the sheet music', from the dialog it seemed to me that the piano part was supposed to be improvised, and Klavier gave Machi directions to play "in the background" or something; so he didn't know specifically what Machi would play (and remember Lamiroir wrote the music, not Klavier). The basic point, I think, is that the feel of the music, as it were, clearly drops out at the point for no reason, especially put into context of the same spot earlier.
  • How was Phoenix allowed to adopt Trucy? He had just lost his job (no income), was proven to be an Amoral Attorney (bad role model), and was presumably single (no female role model for a growing girl).
    • It's been a while since I played, but suppose that off-screen Zak gave a sealed envelope to Phoenix and told him not to open it until after the trial. Said letter naming Phoenix as Trucy's legal guardian. Not sure if this would work in reality, but it wouldn't be the first time the law system in Ace Attorney made its own rules.
  • Wait a minute. Aside from Klavier, the Gavinners weren't performing during Lamiroir's big number, right? So how did none of them (aside from Daryan) hear the gunshots during her performance? The song was sedate, and their dressing room was next door!
    • It's possible that they were watching the performance instead of hanging out in the dressing room. Hey, it's a once-in-a-lifetime occurence and I'd want to stick around to see it too. Although, if that's the case, why did none of them think Daryan's absence would be odd?
    • Not too sure about this, but who says the Gavinners weren't performing during Lamiroir's big number? Maybe what they meant in the games texts is that they weren't on the spotlight, but if you think about it... During the "Guilty Love" performance shown in the mix machine there are five instruments playing (main guitar (Gavin), second guitar (Daryan), bass, synth and drums). In Lamiroir's performance there are five instruments as well (Gavin, Lamiroir, Machi, bass and drums). Assuming that bass and drums in Lamiroir's performance are the same people that in Guilty Love (why would you hire random people if it can be perfectly be played by them?) that would leave only Daryan and synth guy as suspects. But Synth guy didn't show up during any part of the case.
  • Apollo finds a switch in the piano. It ignites a device under the couch in the dressing room, most likely to trigger a few small explosives. Yet we're meant to believe that Machi left the switch in the piano after using it to ignite the cocoon (and guitar). He pressed it during Lamiroir's song. Yet the explosives went off during the Gavinners' next set. Huh?
    • Machi left it in the piano presumably because he didn't have any other place to leave it in, and could be well carrying it with him, and the explosives that went off during Gavinner's next set were activated by Daryan himself when he heard Ema and Apollo talking just next to the dressing room Letouse was in, to create the alibi.
      • Yes, but that leaves a hole. The switch in the piano activated the device that set off the explosives. This was shown when you practically burned Ema. And where Machi was playing, the switch's range could reach both devices, so it can't be universal without setting them off in the second set. So... maybe the one in the piano was Daryan's? Why would he leave it there?
    • How about this: The explosives weren't set until after Machi had first pressed the switch - Daryan could have waited shortly after telling Machi to push the switch to put the second igniter in place. He would have been able to see the second igniter fire to see that that had happened. As to what happened to the switch, why could Machi have not kept it with him until such a time as the body was moved, which also gives a perfect opportunity to put the switch into the piano?
  • I'm surprised that such a blatant contradiction hasn't come up yet. So, Zak decides to not hire Kristoph. Why? Because he's able to see his "true nature" through poker, or at least during the game. Fair enough, considering all the rest I'm supposed to buy in Apollo Justice, that's pretty dang logical. Yet, when Zak plays Phoenix years later, after Phoenix has been disbarred and shamed because of the sole fact that Zak wouldn't even bother to TELL Phoenix that he had the last page of Magnifi's diary, what does he do? HE CHEATS. So, what was that you were saying about "true nature" Zak, you hypocrite?
    • Yeah, Zak is a jerk, we know it...but to be fair, he didn't actually cheat the game, he put up a situation in which the outcome out the game wasn't that he would win, but to make it look as if Phoenix was the one that had cheated, which would ruin his reputation, and put him out of a job and wouldn't have any money to keep raising his adopted daughter...that was much worse than hypocrisy.
      • The MASON System in 4-4 showing Phoenix and Zak to be fairly good buddies tells me that it's probably a case of Unfortunate Implications that the writers didn't fully think through... But those are still some pretty damn unfortunate implications.
  • In Turnabout Corner, why doesn't Dr. Pal Meraktis bother verifying if Alita Tiala is really dead? He's a doctor, and I assume he would be able to tell the difference between a corpse and an unconscious person.
    • It was mentioned during the trial that he was so panicked that he didn't bother to actually check her pulse.
    • Also, he has a sign in front of his clinic that says "Three shots for the price of one!". Doesn't sound like a guy who really went through medical school.
  • When you present the nail polish to Vera, her lock breaks with her saying "I promised I wouldn't tell". She doesn't, so why does the lock break, showing she's ready to tell her secret when she isn't? Considering her personality, those locks should have been black.
    • Kristoph's black Psyche-locks are mentioned as having a great deal of cold despair about them. Vera hasn't developed anywhere near that level of hopelessness.
    • She promised she wouldn't tell anyone what her good-luck charm was, because doing so would spoil the charm.
    • There are plenty of times in games 2 and 3 of the Phoenix Wright trilogy when people's psyche-locks break without the person actually revealing everything, or when people with much more to hide than 12 year old Vera did have psyche-locks that aren't black.
  • Is the point of the Jurist System to raise the standards that are required for conviction, or lower them? Because it seemed like in case 3, the point being made was that Daryan is obviously the killer, but because the legal system is faulty, he can't be convicted except by wearing down Machi's reluctance to testify. However, in the final case, you never see whether or not Kristoph is convicted by a jury, all you do see is that Vera is acquitted by one. The thing is that Ace Attorney's legal system is not flawed because it's too difficult to convict the guilty, it's because it's too easy to convict the innocent. You'd think that the reason why Apollo would've been getting up in arms in case 3 is not that Daryan is too hard to convict, but that Machi is too hard to acquit even though he's such an improbable suspect.
    • Why would Kristoph need to be convicted by a jury when he was already convicted earlier? In any case, I believe the Jurist System was created because it was too easy to get the innocent sent to jail.
    • The two problems - too easy to convict the innocent, too hard to convict the guilty - are inextricably linked. Some cases in the series go as far as saying outright that no matter how conclusively you prove the defendant's innocence, if you don't identify and prove the real culprit, the defendant will be found guilty anyway. Cases where it's said "nobody will find him/her Not Guilty, not now" are a departure from the core logic of the game's setting, and don't seem to be thought through.
      • It still isn't too hard to convict the guilty. Seriously, given what we know about this court system, how often do you suppose a guilty suspect manages to get himself declared not guilty? It's merely too hard to convict guilty people who have framed someone else, due to the difficulty of "turning the case around" from the initial suspect. All of this said, Apollo definitely ranted from the wrong angle at the end of case 3. In fact, his rant was on the Wall Banger page for a while before the section was cleaned up. (Only in Ace Attorney can the idea of a jurist system not only be supported for its ability to find people guilty without decisive evidence, but also be primarily backed for this reason by defense attorneys instead of prosecutors.)
        • The court also has absurdly high standards of evidence required to convict anyone other than the defendant. If you doubt this, check up on 2-1, when the Judge says that if Phoenix can't prove the witness's motive the defendant will be found guilty even though the only piece of evidence the prosecution still has that could implicate her implicates the witness just as much. So basically, as the Judge puts it: "Common citizens have something called common sense" which is otherwise completely absent from the court.
  • Where was Apollo when Thalassa is shot? She's his mother, but there is no reference to him during Phoenix's entire half of 4-4.
    • Perhaps Magnifi, his grandfather, took care of him between Thalassa's shooting and his own death? Though this means Apollo would have to have been sent elsewhere (adoptive parents?) after Magnifi fell too ill to take care of him, though.
      • But then shouldn't Apollo know who Thalassa is and that Trucy is his sister?
        • There is evidence that Apollo recognizes Thalassa on some level. Think back to what he thinks when he meets her during case 3:

Apollo: (I can't put my finger on why, but I like this Lamiroir.)

        • ...suggesting that there's a faint degree of familiarity, say, if he'd last seen her when he was very young. As for Trucy, well, if the shooting happened when they were both relatively young, then Zak and Magnifi probably didn't let their personal lives mingle very much after that...
    • This troper was confused by the entire idea that Apollo doesn't know who Troupe Gramarye is even though they are his family, so I looked back in the game. Here is the story: Thalassa, part of the troupe, married another performer. She went off with him for a year and had Apollo. Her husband died, she gave up the baby for adoption, came back to the troupe and pretended nothing happened. She then married Zak and had Trucy before getting shot when Trucy was around four.
      • This troper agrees with this theory, mostly because Zak seemed surprised when you mention that Thalassa had a son.
      • And also, even if Apollo doesn't remember Trucy's name specifically, if he'd been living with the Grammaryes around the time of the accident, you'd think he'd be old enough to remember at least having a sister. But he doesn't.
  • How did Lamiroir wake up in Borginia after being shot when the group was probably in America/Japan during the rehearsal?
    • Magnifi probably smuggled her out of the country to maintain the illusion that she was dead and so his hold on Zak and Valant. He's the sort of person to know people that could take care of her there.
    • That's an unsolved mystery with no currently known answer, which means that it'll probably be resolved in a sequel. Apollo's backstory isn't done for yet.
  • In "Turnabout Trump", why doesn't Apollo's bracelet react to Kristoph's Twitchy Eye?
    • Probably because his distress is so obvious at eye-twitching levels that he doesn't need the bracelet to make him aware of it.
  • Why did Alita hire Apollo? Yes, we know her stated reason: she wanted Wocky to be found guilty and thought Apollo was incompetent. But consider these facts: 1) Either due to misunderstanding or desired G-cred, Wocky was already admitting to the crime. 2) According to the first game, most defense attorneys don't take clients that they believe are guilty. 3) Also according to the first game, such a client would be given to a state-appointed attorney, which is practically equivalent to an automatic guilty verdict. Basically, she could have sat around and done nothing and he would have been found guilty anyway, and she would have saved money in the process. Or did she think the Kitakis would have otherwise hired a corrupt attorney to rig the trial in his favor?
    • Exactly, if she hadn't acted then the Kitakis themselves would have gone and got a competent attorney for their son, she couldn't just do nothing.
  • What are Snackoos? Are they savory, are they sweet, are they crunchy, are they chocolate? WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY?!
    • They are fried dough covered in chocolate, that somehow make good projectiles.
    • Technically, they're karintou: sweet crunchy quasi-cylindrical snacks with a strong visual/auditory resemblance to thumb-sized pumpernickel pretzel sticks, though without any white crystals of salt/sugar embedded in the surface. Karintou normally get their caramelized color and taste from dark brown sugar, but apparently there are some versions made with chocolate.
  • Considering Trucy's father is Zak Gramarye, why is she not the slightest bit tan? I don't get how she could possibly be that pale.
    • She takes after her mom?
    • It's also possible that Zak has an acquired tan.
  • What exactly is Kristoph trying to accomplish during the last trial day of 4-4? I mean, he had already been convicted of killing "Shadi Smith," thereby receiving life in prison and possibly even the death penalty eventually. What good will ensuring that he is not indicted for another murder going to do? Even if he ensured Vera's guilty verdict and thereby got rid of the last person who could rat him out for his evidence forgery, he's still a convicted murderer locked up for life. What's the point of trying to protect your reputation when your reputation has already been ruined by your cold-blooded killing of another man? Is Kristoph just a troll/griefer who enjoys stomping all over Phoenix's and Apollo's efforts, even when he really has nothing to gain from it?
    • He probably knew that Phoenix had figured out his role in his disbarment. He probably didn't want Phoenix to reveal the circumstances of his disbarment and get his job back. He's a petty Complete Monster.
    • It's mentioned earlier in this case that he is still well-respected by his former peers, many of whom have a hard time accepting that he is a convicted murderer. He even sarcastically confesses to being a Complete Monster, showing that he doesn't take his incarceration particularly seriously. It's well-established at this point that he cares far more for his reputation than for justice, so being in jail may not bother him so long as he still has the respect of the lawyers of the world. Trying to shut down Phoenix and Apollo's attempts to tie him to another murder makes for a great opportunity to bolster his reputation by making the two who convicted him in the first place look like out-of-touch fools. Plus, having his plot to destroy Phoenix's career exposed really would damage his reputation beyond repair.
    • Plus, in Investigations 2, doesn't Frank Sawhit show up as accomplice, and he gets an extension on his jail time? This would seem to imply that not all of the killers are actually getting the death sentence, so it's possible that Kristoph didn't get the death sentence for killing "Shadi Smith." He probably would get put on death row for Drew's death, or in the very least get a jail time extension, so he was trying to avoid that.
  • In case 4, you are unable to use the letter from Misham to prove Kristoph's connection to the victim, because it's just a copy created by Phoenix. Why was it not possible to obtain the real letter? Kristoph is in solitary confinement for murder. Is it not possible to just ask that his mail be confiscated?
    • By that point, Kristoph should have most likely destroyed the letter already, it'd be futile to try to get the original by then. Also he is in solitary confinement. But by his choice, and lives in luxury. As much as he can anyway.
      • Except that he already has stated that his mail is read before it gets to him. That there isn't a record of mail coming from Drew Misham to his cell is nothing short of gross negligence. Granted, given the conditions he lives in, this probably isn't surprising.
  • Where did Phoenix get the idea to become a piano player, especially if he can't play a lick? Yes, there is a piano in the office (covered in magic supplies), but why would he choose to try and advertise himself as one? Did Trucy persuade him? Was he just that desperate? (This also raises another question... Was Mia also a piano player, or was it simply left in the office?)
    • His piano playing job is just a cover, he is a professional poker player that attracts clients and gambles to the Borscht Bowl Club.
    • He can play a little, so I guess he once took lessons (maybe as a kid) and wasn't that good at it but he thought that would be a good idea for his gambling side job.
  • Why does Kristoph's hair become normal again once he starts laughing at the end of his Super Saiyan breakdown? Is it to show how creepy he is?
    • Maybe it's just because he's a dandy to the end.
  • In Case 4-2, it is established that the reason the Kitakis are going clean is because they need money for Wocky's operation. However, they didn't even KNOW that Wocky still had the bullet inside him until the check-up a couple of days before the trial! How is it possible, therefore, for their business to do a complete u-turn (and gradually) to pay for an operation when they have only known about it for a couple of days, particularly since the motive of Alita Tiala's marriage is to get her hands on the wealth the Kitakis are aquiring after going clean, and that happened 6 months ago?
    • Odds are that they knew, but couldn't hide this knowledge from Wocky when the results of the checkup (most likely done to see if anything else was wrong) came out.
      • It may be hard to find a surgeon who can handle a case like that (and take time to come up with enough clean money to pay for it), but you'd think that they would have gotten the operation much earlier if they had known. On the other hand, while this may contradict some in-game dialogue, it's possible that they went clean because of the injury itself ("the gangster life did this to you") and the need for clean money just reinforced that decision.
  • Part of the evidence in the first case here was that Phoenix's fingerprints were on the bottle. And they were upside down so he couldn't have just been handling it normally. But my question is, when you're holding the neck of the bottle, how exactly would you be holding it that it looks upside down?
    • The opening video for the case shows exactly how the bottle was held, but I'll explain anyway. Usually when one holds a bottle by the neck, the bottle is right-side up and is held with the index finger closest to the cork (pointing upwards) and the pinky closest to the base (pointing downwards). Phoenix grabbed the neck of a bottle that was below him, so he held it the opposite way: his index finger closest to the base (pointing down) and his pinky was closest to the cork (pointing up), which would create the exact same pattern of fingerprints as if he was holding it upside-down.
  • In Case 3, why does nobody think it odd that Machi is discovered unresponsive, apparently unconscious, beside a body he'd likely have never been able to move on his own, certainly not in the time he had available? At least, given his scramble to get away from the body when he walks in on Apollo, it's highly unlikely that he'd have just lain there waiting for the hammer to fall, no matter what his conspirator Daryan said, so Daryan probably needed to subdue him - not difficult, but certainly conspicuous!
    • Well, at the time the body was discovered nobody had known that Daryan was involved, and they were too busy trying to find the body to pay much attention to what Daryan was doing, probably. Though I still have no idea why this didn't occur to anyone later on in the case...
  • What's the deal with Kristoph's black Psyche-Locks? Are they ever broken? When I played through 4-4 and finished the MASON System part, I realized I never had a chance to break them. Was I supposed to? I mean, these things are new and were never in the Phoenix arc, and yet here they are and are never mentioned again.
    • The whole point of the black Psyche-Locks is that they can't be broken, or at least not by Phoenix. What everyone seems to forget is the question that produced said Psyche-Locks was something to the extent of: "Why did you kill Shadi Smith?" While Phoenix is unable to get the answer out of Kristoph during the investigation, Apollo is able to figure it out during the trial, thanks partially to his Perceive ability. It was meant to further the idea of "passing the torch" in that even with his Magatama, Phoenix could never beat Kristoph on his own. Instead, it required Apollo and his bracelet. Of course, the impact is lessened when you realize Phoenix was The Chessmaster and arguably is the one who caught Kristoph anyway.
      • Any discussion of why the psyche-locks are a different color is going to have to involve some speculation. In any case, the game doesn't even let you enter an unlock sequence and the person in question arguably guards his secrets more tightly than any other character, so the most common interpretation can be be supported.
  • This may be a bit picky, but something bugged me when we met Eldoon. The guy says that he used to serve Phoenix and his assistant 'back in his lawyer days,' but then later, during the investigation, he reveals that he's only been doing the noodle stand thing for, what, a year? Unless he's using the MASON System to time-travel like a salt-broth-wielding Time Lord, I think not.
    • I thought he said Phoenix frequented his father's shop.
  • I know that the real reason was to Hand Wave the Stupidity Is the Only Option moment, but was there really a plausible reason to refuse to accept Magnifi's diary itself? There was a perfectly solid case to be made out of "the next page was ripped out, and said page could very well provide a motive or at least refute the current theory" without ever needing for Phoenix to claim to have it without checking its validity first. It's likely that Klavier said it to bait the trap, but Phoenix couldn't have appealed to the judge to allow it?
    • At this point, the diary was the decisive evidence in Klavier's favor. It would have been useless to just say that "a page has been ripped out," because Klavier could easily counter that by saying there's no way to prove when the page was torn out, or what it was torn out for. The only way Phoenix could swing it back his way was by showing decisive evidence of his own, basically, "what was on that torn diary page."
      • Klavier's argument was basically "this is the last thing he wrote, and the fact that it's the last thing he wrote speaks volumes". When you consider that the most obvious thing to write would be the recipient of the rights, and that at that point in the case, both magicians would have equal motive depending on what happened at that meeting, the fact that the page couldn't be found wouldn't establish either one's guilt.
  • Why didn't Daryan ever try to defend himself by saying something along the lines of "you can't prove when the firecrackers went off?" Yeah, we know who has an alibi for which time period and that bangs were heard during both the second and third sets. You'd think Daryan (and maybe Klavier) would have insisted that there wasn't enough proof regarding which noises were fake and which were real.
    • Given how Romein was shot in the shoulder and apparently took quite a while to actually die, you could argue that he had to have shot during the second act, or else he'd have a better chance of living (as he'd be discovered right after being shot and could get medical attention). And if he had to have been shot in the second act in order to die during the third act, then Daryan trying to make something up about the fireworks wouldn't have worked out.
  • How exactly was Alita Tiala's gold-digging scheme supposed to work? Suppose she marries Wocky and he dies shortly thereafter. Okay, so... she gets nothing substantial, because the family's wealth belongs to his parents. Maybe he has a bank account that his allowance goes into or some kind of trust fund, but shouldn't most of what the family owns (that they have a legal title to at all) belong to the parents? Unless she was planning on killing Winfred and Plum after the wedding - or thought that they would adopt her as their daughter and heir after Wocky died - this doesn't seem like it would work. Was she planning on just walking off with stuff after he died, knowing that they'd be afraid to take her to court over it since they'd have to explain to a judge where everything came from if they did?
    • Well, if everything had gone to plan, she would have married him and would have become a Kitaki. Most likely, when he died, she would still be a Kitaki. Remember, if the plan had gone well, the Kitakis would have thought that she was just an innocent girl who loved a doomed man, I doubt they'd kick her out. All that would have remained would be to wait for her "parents" to die of old age, and she'd have all the money
  • Why did Alita Tiala confess to breaking and entering into the clinic during the investigation in court? Apollo says, "confessing to the small crime to avoid the big one, eh," but there's no reason that confessing to that helped. I can see why the culprit had a hard time avoiding confessing to being a bitch fiancee since that had already been proven, but confessing to the breaking and entering didn't appear to be necessary and didn't help explain anything suspicious that had been brought up yet. My only guess is that the culprit expected that Apollo would figure out who was responsible for breaking and entering and figured it was better to beat him to it.
    • I kind of figured that she admitted to breaking and entering just to back herself up if Apollo had come up with a weaker argument. She could have used something like "I just tried to steal the medical charts for Wocky's sake," as I think she mentioned something like being concerned about Wocky even after everyone realized she was a bitch fiancee. Or she probably thought that Apollo would just back down if she admitted to the breaking and entering.
  • How did Vera reproduce the diary page exactly, down to the torn side which Phoenix calls "a perfect match" to the tear in Magnifi's diary? It's pretty hard to rip a straight line down a piece of paper, let alone copy an uneven, random one in a diary you've never seen before.
    • Kristoph presumably showed her either the diary itself or a photograph of it. I think she even says that she was given the diary. She could have used scissors to reproduce the cut's exact shape, or made some kind of outline of it. In any case, it's implied that she's a prodigy.
  • On the risk of being petty, but it bugged me ever since I replayed 4-4, how did the police ever come to the conclusion that Vera poisoned the RIM of the coffee mug? I mean, apart from the whole atroquinine-is-slow-acting contradiction, they (or at least, Ema) only found only a small stain of atroquinine residue on the rim of the mug in question. However, if I'd ever poison the rim of a coffee mug, I'd put the poison all over the rim to ensure that my victim would get the poison inside their body, and not just a small piece and hope that my victim would put their lips exactly over there. You would think at least someone involved with the investigation would have came up with this.
    • Consider case 3-3's coffee mug stain and it's not an unreasonable conclusion. They believe the culprit is Vera, and if the mug has exactly one handle, she would know which side Drew would drink from based on which hand he would use to pick it up, and given that she lives with him, of course she would know this. If she -was- the culprit it wouldn't even matter if he switched it up on her because he still wouldn't discover the poison on the other end of the cup, so she could just try again if it came to it.
      • Makes sense, but even if Drew usually picked the cup up with the same hand, he'd still have to put his mouth on that exact spot. Yes, Vera probably wouldn't have to have (theoretically) put atroquinine on the whole rim, but still a bit more on whichever side she thinks he'd drink out of.
  • In a conversation with Ema in 4-2, she mentions that the reason she came back to America to take the exam to become a forensic scientist was that "Mr. Wright and his people" helped her years ago. It makes me wonder who is Ema talking about when she says "his people"? By the time the player gets to 1-5, Maya is already back in Kurain and there doesn't seem to be anyone else working in the Wright & Co Law Offices. So who is she talking about? Gumshoe?
    • Well, given how chummy Phoenix is with Gumshoe and Edgeworth, maybe she meant them? Other than that, I don't have much of an idea either, though.
  • During 4-1, why didn't Kristoph simply tell everyone that he'd seen "Shadi Smith's" bald head when he'd tipped his hat as they passed by after Gavin had left the club? This would have explained how he knew he was bald, without putting him AT the scene...
    • Because then Phoenix or Apollo would probably demand that Kristoph needs to show that "Shadi Smith" tipped his hat when they passed. And Phoenix going "You have no proof" seemed to work well enough in 2-4 when the debate on whether or not Matt knew the suicide not was fake came up.
  • In 4-4, Klavier freaks out when he realizes that Vera was the one who forged the evidence in Nick's last case. Okay. Understandable. But given how, in that case, Valant was Klavier's main witness, and a good chunk of what triggered Klavier's freak out was the fact that Vera said the diary page was related to the Grammaryes, shouldn't Klavier have felt uncomfortable working with Valant in 4-3? Now, granted, it's been a little while since I've played 4-4, so I don't remember exactly how the scene went, but... at the very least, why didn't they seem to recognize each other?
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