Babylon 5/WMG

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


The Vorlon biosuits are actually host to AI Vorlons who reproduce by Brain Uploading.

When they leave their encounter suits they exist as an Energy Being... briefly. Then all that energy burns off and they die. In "Falling Toward Apotheosis," the two Vorlons were fighting to occupy the same encounter suit (Kosh 2's suit). The first to burn out would die, and the survivor would return to his own encounter suit before he, too, died. In that episode,however, they both killed each other, so we weren't able to see any of this. Instead we were left with the impression of just another god-like Energy Being.

The Hand from Legend of the Rangers are the same as the Thirdspace Aliens

  • Think about it: the Ancient Good Race imprisons the Hand in Thirdspace. Much later, the Vorlons, having found out about the powers of the Hand, opens their Gate and fights back the Hand. Much later still, Babylon 5 finds the Gate, opens it, and yet again has to fight back the Hand. Some years after that, the Hand are ready to breach the portal that imprisoned them there in the first place. The cloaked beings seen at the end of Legend are the corrupted Vorlons spoken about in Thirdspace. The enemy ships from Thirdspace bear resemblance to Vorlon craft; this may indicate that they still use the dark Vorlons as their prime servants.
    • The role-playing game says that the Hand used to serve the Harbingers (Thirdspace Aliens).

Sylar from Heroes is the Father of the Shadows and Peter Petrelli is the Father of the Vorlons

  • At some point Sylar will kill and "examine" either Daniel Jackson's or Jack O'Neil's mind, gain the Ancient knowledge, and ascend. Sylar decides to force his evolutionary theory upon the rest of the universe by becoming the Shadows and 'kicking over the anthills' to force the races to evolve. Peter, who at some point walked past the Stargate character that Sylar didn't kill, also ascends and tries to stop Sylar by becoming the Vorlons.
    • Then what? Time travel? Another reality?
      • Time travel is essential to this theory - the Vorlons and Shadows have derailed many civiliaztions before humanity, and so both Sylar and Peter have to go back far enough to do that. An alternate reality isn't strictly necessary to the theory, but time travel in Heroes often creates such things anyway, and they are going a lot farther back than 400 years.
  • Or...It's the other way around. Peter's the one who tries to help people, meddling in their affairs for "their own good" and granting wishes. Sylar's the one more likely to simply say "Here! Have a superpower to start off with!" and then watching to see if they make good use of it to improve themselves the way he did. (And remember, telekinesis was one of his original powers.)

The future post-humans are the First Ones.

  • It's already been established that time travel is possible. The humans turn into Vorlon-like energy beings and then travel back in time and make sure it all happens like it's supposed to. The whole Vorlon/Shadows "war" is just an elaborate Masquerade. Jason Ironheart, the first to transcend physicality, is Lorien.
    • It's explicitly stated that Lorien was one of the first sentinent beings in the Universe, immortal from the beginning.
      • So he comes in before anyone else. Who's going to contradict him? Hey... They just said he was the first to appear, not how he appeared. He never stated that he evolved naturally in the early universe; that's an unspoken assumption the other characters made. And if this WMG is true, then anything the First Ones say to the lesser races may be suspect, and "explicitly stated" does not equal "true." It's all part of the greater Batman Gambit to ensure that the younger races follow the timeline exactly as they're meant to.
    • Why do they feel any need to go back into the past and 'ensure things happen the way they're supposed to'? The show's timeline appears stable -- all loops closed, all prophecies coming true. Does anything suggest it can be changed at all? Of course, this is a circular argument -- if the timeline is fixed, then if somebody from the future popped up in the past, then that ensures that they eventually will make the journey. But that's subtly different from "let's go back into the past for the express purpose of not changing a single thing!"
      • You've just explained it yourself-- the superintelligent Future Ones see the results of their manipulation, and they realize they have to go back and make it happen... because they Can't Fight Fate either. They realize they're the only ones who could have done it. Or they just think they are - it works out the same way in the end.

Lorien isn't the first sentient. He just says he is.

Hell, for the above idea, he didn't have to jump in before anyone else evolved sentience, just before they invented interstellar travel. If the first guy you meet after leaving the planet is Lorien, with his Sufficiently Advanced spaceship, then you might believe him when he says he's the First One.

  • Hell, he might truly believe he is the First, when the reality is all the earlier "First First Ones" got killed by bears or diseases or something before they achieved interstellar travel. He might be the oldest surviving one, though.

The three chances for Londo to avoid the fate of Centari Prime destroyed by the Drakh are:

  • Save the eye that does not see: This should in fact be the I that cannot see. I for an egotist, cannot see for lack of perspective, mad and stupid.
    • Confirmed by the canon novels.
      • I always thought that "the eye that does not see" referred to Adira, since the amulet he had given to her had the form of an eye.
        • "The eye that does not see" could also refer to G'Kar's right eye or to Londo's keeper.
          • When someone commented on Usenet about Londo doing nothing about G'Kar's eye being plucked out, JMS commented "Yeah, it's a real shame Londo didn't save the eye that couldn't see Cartagia's greatness." That could've been a Red Herring, though.
        • I always thought "the eye that cannot see" was The Eye, the artifact which fell into the hands of the Shadows, before being returned to Mollari.
      • Although the "eye"="I" theory relies on either Morella having been speaking English or those words also being similar in Centauri.
  • Do not kill the one who is already dead: Mr. Morden was officially dead. He should not have killed him.
    • Canon novels identify this as Sheridan instead.
      • OK, that is weird. After all he took that option, so why did he then need to use the next one too? No sense the making.
        • Yeah, but the two happened within minutes of each other. Perhaps Londo didn't see letting G'Kar kill him as a chance for redemption, but more like euthanasia. After all, being a Drakh puppet for 17 years can't be fun.
  • Surrender yourself to your greatest fear, knowing it will destroy you: Have G'kar kill him.
    • Confirmed by the canon novels.
    • I always assumed this referred to his Keeper.

Why these? These are the events that lead to the Drakh taking vengeance on Molari and the way out. By killing the emperor, then Mr Morden, he can destroy the shadow vessels. But the Vorlons would have turned back in any case, so it was pointless in the long run: all it did was get the Drakh angry. The mad emperor would have been assassinated eventually (they often are), or he would have done something suicidal while thinking himself a god. By letting G'kar kill him, he gets Vir on the throne; Vir is free of a keeper.

  • But what were the two chances he had already missed?
    • Just guessing here (but then, that's what the page is for, right?) but the most obvious 2 points to prevent the burning of Centauri Prime would have been to turn down the ambassadorial post, and not talk to Morden (or just be a bit more careful what he wished for). If he had refused the position on Babylon 5 he wouldn't have been in a position to do everything that he did. The position may have gone to someone with a more level head, who lived in the now rather then in the glory days of the Republic. Someone like Vir, perhaps, who would have kept the position the harmless little diplomatic hole it was meant to be. The second, being careful what he wished for, is pretty self explanatory. If he hadn't made himself such an enticing ally for the Shadows, they wouldn't have looked to set up shop on his planet, thus no need to blow up the Shadow ships, and no angried up Drakh looking for vengeance.
    • It seemed almost certain that one of the "lost chances" was when he started the war in "Coming of Shadows." Not only was it the first time that he knowingly made use of the Shadows to attack his enemies, but he did it at a moment when the chances of a real peace between the Narn and Centauri were higher then they had ever been. The other one is harder to guess: both of the possibilities mentioned above seem good guesses. Another one might be his decision to join Refa's conspiracy in "Geometry of Shadows." He knew what Refa was proposing was treason and if he had turned Refa in, perhaps the events of the series don't come to pass. Instead, he went along with the plan, and we know where that ended up.
  • But the only reasons Londo killed Morden in the first place was because he was angry that Morden had both murdered Adira and played him for a fool using that, and that Morden was a Shadow influence that would have to be eliminated to save Centauri Prime. Killing Morden had no real affect on whether or not the Shadow vessels on Centauri Prime would be destroyed -- that was done before Morden was even officially captured. Regardless of anything, killing Morden had no effect on whether the Drakh would seek revenge or not.
    • If Londo hadn't killed Morden, Morden would probably have sung like a canary to anyone who interrogated him about all the Shadows' secrets, just because he was annoyed that they pissed off and abandoned him to face all their enemies. Hence everyone would have known about the Drakh and their capabilities as soon as the Shadows departed and the Drakh wouldn't have been able to infiltrate Centauri society.

Alternately, in order to redeem himself, he must do all three in sequence. And he will have three such opportunities, but each time the three tasks are different.

  • The first opportunity was when he tried to distance himself from Morden. The "Eye/I that cannot see" probably refers to the Centauri leadership, symbolized by their "Eye", that cannot see the Shadows for what they are, and he tries to save them by limiting Morden's influence. "Surrendering to his greatest fear" referred to Adira's murder (specifically, accepting it without trying to retaliate), and "the one who is already dead" was Refa, whom he had half-poisoned already.
  • The second opportunity was when the Vorlon Planet Killer was threatening Centauri Prime. In this instance the "Eye" is G'kar's eye, the "man who is already dead" is Morden, and his "greatest fear" was the destruction of Centauri Prime (ie he should have "surrendered" to this fear by not trying to eliminate Shadow influence on Centauri Prime and thus provoking the ire of the Drahk, since the Vorlons would have ended up leaving Centauri Prime alone anyways if he had done nothing.)
  • The last opportunity is the one he succeeds in. The "I that cannot see" refers to himself (under the Drahk keeper's control he most likely would have been viewed as a mad emperor/danger to interstellar peace, but by defying the Drahk at the end he saves his historical reputation). The "man who is already dead" this time refers to Sheridan, and "his greatest fear" was dying at G'kar's hand.

Londo never needed his third chance at redemption. He made good on his second.

The novels may say something different, but that's never stopped a good WMG before. The circumstances of Londo's death clearly suggest fulfilling his second chance, "Not killing [Sheridan] who is already dead." So if he made good on that, why make him do the third part? Moreover, I have a hard time seeing Londo's "greatest fear" as death at G'Kar's hands. He has known that was coming since before he arrived on B5, and it didn't seem to trouble him unduly. Londo seemed to fear the decline and decay of the Centauri far more than he did his own personal death. I don't see him dying after gaining a promise from Sheridan and Delenn, two people he trusts, that they will protect the Centauri (who now have Vir as their un-keeper-infested emperor) as "surrendering to his greatest fear."

My theory is that if Londo hadn't found a way to save Sheridan, the Drahk would have overwhelmed Centauri Prime and used it as a launching point to go after the other races. In order to stop the Drahk, Londo would have had to destroy Centauri Prime. Dying with his homeworld gone, and perhaps Vir and a handful of other survivors living as refugees with every chance that the Centauri would be wiped out in a generation or two...that strikes me as much closer to Londo's "greatest fear."

What were Londo's other two chances?

Lady Morella specifically states that he had already missed two other chances. My theory is that they were:

  • Becoming the custodian of the Great Machine back in A Voice in the Wilderness(since the episode makes it clear that he is considering it).
  • Not ordering the attack on the Narn colony that starts the Narn-Centauri War in The Coming Of Shadows (since without that, Emperor Turhan's mission of peace might have succeeded).

Different species of Telepath have different abilities.

A P12 can sense the location of a ship in Hyperspace, but the Psi corps keeps it secret. So what about the other races? Wouldn't they know about it?

  • No group of Telepaths apart from the Centauri Emperor's are seen to maintain a mental link over lightyears, and yet this has massive potential benefits. Also, they seem to be the only Precogs in the universe.
    • Centauri have as a "common trait" the ability to see their own deaths (Londo since basically meeting G'Kar knew he'd kill him, then with a bit of a psi-boost he sees himself being strangled).
      • He already knew he'd die by strangulation from G'Kar, he mentioned it to Sinclair in the first episode.
  • Minbari Telepaths are shown jamming Shadow vessels lying down on beds with their eyes closed, seemingly not needing line of sight. Lita has to be watching the Shadow vessel.
    • She was working alone; they were working in concert. While she probably has more raw power than any Minbari tp, spreading out the burden always makes it easier.
      • Three of them where attacking four shadow vessels. They where in a worse position. Plus we are told that Lita NEEDED line of sight, no matter how many humans there where, line of sight is needed.
  • Word of God confirmed this in his Usenet posts.


There is no afterlife.

  • All of the Gods worshipped in the universe are reflection of the Vorlons.
  • Captain Sheridan's savior said that once someone died, there was no life to restore, merely, leftover shit.
  • One alien, the one who captured dead men's spirits, said that his quarries were not souls but the last flickering remnants of consciousness. He said that they disappeare, very shortly, after death.
  • Lando Molari's dream of his death ended with a fade to black.
  • A race of Cosmic Horror is the most powerful force in the universe.
  • J. Michael Straczynski is a self-admitted atheist. Just because he doesn't think that we will Outgrow Superstition doesn't mean that he thinks there is such thing as a Space Jesus
  • There is "afterlife", namely the future of the species. Whether it is evolution to higher beings, as we saw happen to humans, or being a "dying race" like the Narn and the Centauri, all depends on the choices and actions of individual people. Heaven and hell are metaphors that bring this to personal level.
    • Therefore religions aren't actually wrong. Instead of "outgrowing" them, people should see the point behind all the layers of mythology, supernatural embellishments, rules and commandments.

The Alien Probe seen in season three was a Vorlon weapon for use against the Shadows by wiping out their potential allies.

  • The Probe approaches with a series of difficult questions and promises the user advanced technologies if they answer correctly. Seems like just the sort of thing the Shadows would do to find willing minion races and give them a substantial tech boost. The thing is, if you answer the probe correctly (and thus prove susceptible to outside temptation and willing to bust ass for new toys)the Probe explodes and takes a chunk of your planet with it. Not something the Shadows would want, since that wipes out races that they might find make useful allies/patsies. The Vorlons on the other hand, could use the device to locate non-developed races (those who can't answer the questions, or even lack the technology to realize questions are being asked), then they lodge themselves into the cultural mind as angelic beings and begin breeding a new species of telepaths for the next Shadow vs. Vorlon throwdown.
    • This assumes that the Vorlons would think that a certain amount of technological sophistication is required in order to be susceptible to the temptation of power. Furthermore, this assumes that the Vorlons believe that any race that wishes to advance itself will automatically align itself with the Shadows. Neither of these seem particularly plausible...

The Alien Probe seen in season three was a Drakh weapon for use against anyone who could conceivably oppose them.

  • The Probe approaches with a series of difficult questions and promises the user advanced technologies if they answer correctly. The thing is, if you answer the probe correctly (and thus prove a certain level of advancement) it explodes and takes a chunk of your planet with it. The Drakh are shown to use similar looking ship architecture to the probe (and to the Vorlons), and embark on an attempt to conquer the galaxy as soon as the Shadows have left. Furthermore, the Drakh are shown to be on a similar (though slightly higher) level of technology to the Earth Alliance, and other known Galactic powers, and hence could be threatened by them.

The bioships of the Vorlons are heavily-modified versions of their biological ancestors.

Compare the basic shape of the Vorlon ships with that of the Energy Being Vorlons- tentacles arranged in a similar layout. Maybe they are their biological ancestors, after ages of transhumanist(well, transvorlonist) self-modification.

The events of Babylon 5 are told by an Unreliable Narrator.

Namely a human one. It explains why Humans Are Special.

    • More likely a Minbari one. A human would have made the Earth-Minbari war a rather better match.
      • The series finale reveals that the whole thing was an ISN Special Documentary, so that leans towards a human viewpoint. There could be any number of reasons why they would want to portray the E-M war as being such a lopsided affair (reasons could of course include it being common knowledge in-universe that it was such a one-sided affair.)
        • The series finale, "Sleeping in Light," reveals no such thing. There is voice-over narration from various characters, but nothing to indicate that it is any more in-universe than the narration from the opening credits. We do see a number of in-universe records in the season 4 finale, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars," but there is nothing whatsoever to indicate that the rest of the show is any less "real" than the framing sequences of the far-future human reviewing those documents.
        • One of the very last lines of that episode (and the show) is an announcer saying "And now, for those of you who have been archiving this ISN Special Documentary, the people responsible..." Link. Now, The actual last lines of the show are some fluff about how it was paid for by donations form the An'la'shok Memorial Fund, which might explain any Minbari-favored bits.

When G'kar was giving Lyta the test to see if she would spy on people for him, he wasn't overlooking the possibility Leta would scan him and give him an answer he wanted.

Remember, G'kar, like Lyta, has been Touched by Vorlons (specifically, Kosh, who inspired him on his road to enlightenment). If Lyta had scanned him, he'd have realized it out and dropped the offer immediately.

  • Alternatively, Lyta wouldn't even be able to initiate a scan on G'kar due to his Vorlon influence. This is more likely, since she could also not scan or even sense Sheridan in the episode when she was arrested. Also, Lyta knows that she can't do it (which is why she wasn't surprised).

The part of Earthgov propaganda that accused Sheridan and Delenn of trying to create Human/Minbari hybrids was actually true.

Partially true, that is. The details were of course completely made up by Earthgov propaganda to put them in a bad light, but I think that Sheridan and Delenn could indeed have initiated some experiments in this direction (albeit probably not on Babylon 5 but somewhere else). Mainly because that is what I would do if I was either Sheridan or Delenn. It is very obvious that both species have some kind of karmic connection. Humans have Minbari souls, and the Minbari already have some Human DNA in their gene pool from Valen's children. Trying to strengthen the bond between them also on a genetical level seems just logic to me. Of course, Sheridan and Delenn would have used volunteers only and never planned to force change on the human species as a whole: that part was just made up by Earthgov. Also, with the triluminarys gone, they might have had serious problems with the experiments, which is the reason why we never see any Human/Minbari hybrids except Delenn and Sinclair.

  • It goes without saying that Sheridan and Delenn were conducting a great deal of... personal experimentation in this area.
  • Minbari-Human soul thing is Minbari a misinterpretation of what the trliumaries do. It's given in canon that the triluminaries detect Sinclair/Valen's DNA. They glow for humans because all humans--including Sinclair--share the vast majority of their DNA. There is no soul transference and therefore no need to balance the soul books by interbreeding the species.
  • The only hybridization going on is David Sheridan and whatever descendants he might have fathered. Assuming, of course, that he survives to have kids and decides to have them.
    • And any other Human/Minbari relationships that happen.
      • Although these probably wouldn't result in offspring - Sheridan and Delenn only conceived a child together because she was partly human, and according to Franklin the odds were hugely against even that being possible.
  • I couldn't imagine Sheridan condoning that kind of experimentation on others.
    • And I couldn't imagine Sheridan believing in the "shared souls" concept for a second.


The plague that extinguished the Markab could not jump over to other species.

The Pak'ma'ra that died in the same episode most probably died of something completely else. Think of it. If the disease could jump over to other species, it's just highly improbable that it kills the whole Markab species in such a short time without jumping over and doing a great deal of damage to other species as well, even though Franklin had found a cure. Also, the Markab apparently were humanoids while the Pak'ma'ra... are not. So, it can be assumed that the biological differences between Markab and Pak'ma'ra are much greater than between Markab and, let's say, Centauri, or Humans. And I really don't buy the thing about neurological similarities between both species. So, if the disease could jump over to other species, it would most probably jump to some humanoid species first.

  • Two arms, two legs and a head do not human-like biology make, nor does a different body shape preclude it. It is entirely possible that those species had, by sheer chance, similar physiology in that area while races (like us) who merely look more like the Markab are in fact too different in biology to be affected.
  • Given what Pak'ma'ra eat, it is entirely possible that it could only be transited between species by eating infected flesh.
    • You may be right.
  • Well few things, one it was clearly stated that the disease only affected a specif type of cell used by a small number of species for neural conduction, so humanoid or not, any species with a similar enough cell could potentially be infected. Now as to why it wouldn't kill all the other species as fast and completely as the Markab, two things; one the Markab all decided to wall them selves off, all together, and so created the perfect environment for an epidemic to eradicate them (large number of hosts, tightly packed, poor to non-existent medical facilities/supplies) while the other species that had people become infected were probly quick to isolate those individuals before they could spread it to the rest. Two it takes quite a bit for a virus to jump species barriers like that, so it's not at all unbelievable that the version that was able to infect Pak'ma'ra wasn't quite as good at it as it was at infecting Markab, and so spread/killed slower, allowing time for the cure Franklin developed to be used for all non-Markab, (and yes the most likely scenario for HOW the virus managed the cross species jump is something the Pak'ma'ra ate.)

The Centauri evolution was influenced by both Vorlons and Shadows at some point in their history.

Of course, not at the same point. There are some hints of past Shadow influence on the Centauri in the series, but that doesn't explain why Centauri do have telepaths. But this can be explained if they also had some Vorlon influence at some time. The Centauri's precog abilities were probably of Shadow origin, since no other Vorlon-influenced species has them. Also, the Vorlons were probably there before the Shadows, because it's doubtful they would deal with a species that already had Shadow influence. Remember, this was also the reason why they left the Narn for themselves when the Shadows established a base on Narn. Thinking of it, the Centauri and the Narn do share some suspicious similarities in their respective histories. Which is probably the main reason why they hate each other that much.

  • Both the Vorlon's and Shadows had a bad tendency of trying to influence races that the other side happened to be grooming. It was supposed to be part of the reason that both races where so bitter by the last Shadow War.
  • The Vorlons are explicitly said in the show to have influenced Narn evolution before the Shadows established a base there. The Narns had telepaths. The book of G'Quan called them "Mind-walkers" or "Mind-riders," IIRC. When G'Quan led the telepaths against the Shadows, the Shadows exterminated all Narn telepaths and their families, and the dormant genetic conditions for telepathy (according to G'Kar) were never strong enough to reassert themselves in Narn evolution. This is why G'Kar was able to use Dust despite there being no Narn telepaths: it wasn't always the case that there weren't any. Assuming (as we probably should) that they were created or bred by the Vorlons, this makes the Narns another example of a species shaped by both Vorlon and Shadow influences. In both cases Shadow influence probably came later in each species' evolution. While the Vorlons obviously prefer not to deal species that have had significant Shadow influence, we can't say the same about the Shadows. They frequently interfere with species whose development was shaped by the Vorlons.
  • Recall that Centari once had two sentient races, the major Centari holiday evolved from decadent feasts held during that time to celibrate the fact that they where not dead yet. The Centari where more technologically advanced, but the other race was more physically powerful. I think the Centari where guided by the Vorlons, and the other race by the Shadows. When the Shadows lost their race they then took this rather un-shadow like race (physically not that impressive, hierarchical, autocratic etc) and meddled with it as a form of payback. Given that the Centari managed to build an empire their homeworld must be somewhere of reasonable strategic merit, perhaps enough that both the Vorlons and Shadows wanted to control the race that evolved there, and in the end neither really did.
    • The main problem with all of this is that when Londo looked at Kosh, he saw nothing, which indicates the Vorlon never tinkered with the Centauri. There's nothing in the series saying that telepaths are the sole creation of the Vorlon, Centauri telepaths could have developed naturally. One theory could be that the Shadows influenced the Centauri, while the Xon were influenced by the Vorlon. It could be one of the reasons the Shadows like the Centauri; killing another sentient race on their own planet to ensure their survival is exactly the kind of thing the Shadow would like in a species.
      • Londo claims he didn't see anything. Word of God never confirmed whether he did or didn't. Even if he actually did not, it could be because Londo is not a religious or spiritual person, not that the Vorlons didn't influence the Centauri.

The "Martian" seen in Derek Jarman's movie about the life of Ludwig Wittgenstein was actually a Soul Hunter.

At the end of the movie, Wittgenstein is shown on his deathbed with the "Martian" sitting next to him. In his hand, he holds a strange, glowing artifact.

Epsilon III is, in fact, Magrathea.

  • Also, Zathras and Slartibartfast are the same species, and the Thirdspace Aliens might be the Krikkits.

Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory is a Minbari/human hybrid.

See WMG/The Big Bang Theory.

Swedish meatballs are Lorien's favorite food.

He subtly manipulated every sentient race in the galaxy into one day creating a dish exactly like it so that he would always be able to eat it anywhere he visited.

Zathras' native tongue has no pronouns.

Yes it does, it's just all personal and descriptive pronouns are the same word, zathras (lower case z)

Lt. Corwin was in love with Captain Lochley

Think about it: How could a "love bat" be anything else by a horribly-misguided love gift?

Londo Mollari is at Time Lord, and the giant portrait of himself is his TARDIS

David Sheridan Junior is Sinclair/Valen reincarnated

  • As well as being the name of his granddad, David is also Sinclair's middle name
  • According to Zathras' ramblings, Sinclair is the 'beginning' of the story, Delenn and John are the 'middle' and 'end' of the story who go on to create the next story - they 'create' their son David who is the 'beginning' of the next story - the same as Sinclair. Whatever the story is. (Of course Zathras might just be crazy.)
  • Souls and reincarnation do seem to exist in the B5 universe - there had to have been something inside the Soul Hunter's glowing balls, and the Minbari have what looks like a scientific method of measuring whether someone has a formerly Minbari soul, using the triluminaries.

Delenn is an exhibitionist

  • Shan Fal rituals don't REALLY require observers, Delenn just enjoys being watched during more ahh, intimate moments.
  • Which also explains why G'Kar's eye was in such a prominent place in the bridal suite on Delenn and John's wedding night - he didn't try to hide it because it was all her idea in the first place.
  • Given how she tended to parade her relationship in front of people who really shouldn't have seen it, there's not much room for doubt that she really is an exhibitionist. You don't go kissing your bf in front of your own crew (on the White Star) or professing your eternal love in a TV interview unless you're into that kind of thing....
  • Then why didn't her political enemies call her a hussy? That sort of thing would have been Serious Business in a culture like the Minbari. She was accused of hubris and of racial impurity but except for the later no one implies that she went against Minbari ideas of sexual propriety. Surely if she gave such a chance her enemies would seize it. They however did not.
    • And why was she so reluctant to wear the lingerie Sheridan bought for her?
      • Well that's just assuming it was lingerie. It could have been anything she considered silly, like bunny ears.
      • The bunny ears thing is hilarious. But considering that Delenn is the equivalent of a Senator, how do we know the Minbari just don't make allowances for eccentricities? It's not like she was caught playing footsie in the airport bathroom or someone complaining about a stain on her blue dress. They probably would have been more upset that it was with Sheridan Starkiller than the fact that she was in a consensual relationship with the local military governor.
    • Maybe exhibitionism just isn't unusual on Minbar. Maybe exhibitionism is one of their hats.

Narn Bodyguards for Telepaths during the Shadow war

G'kar insists that all of the telepaths employed to fight the Shadows be paired off with a Narn bodyguard, this was intentional. He was trying to Invoke a Bodyguard Crush and breed telepathy back into the Narn, which was one of his personal goals since the show's pilot.

  • Alternatively, the bodyguards had the order to steal some DNA from the telepaths. This shouldn't be too hard to do.

In "In the Beginning", Londo is an unreliable narrator.

Londo's account puts most of the major players in his time at Babylon 5 in central roles in the Earth/Minbari war, but some parts of this don't seem supported by evidence from the series. For example, Sheridan, Franklin and G'kar give no indication at any point that they met before coming to B5. It's also unlikely that the Minbari would have let "Starkiller" go no matter what he said to Delenn. The more logical explanation is that Londo put people he knew (and more importantly, people who were already in the story) into the peace talks section instead of whatever nameless folks were actually there to keep the kids interested. Whether he actually sabotaged the meeting or was just grabbing some extra guilt to wallow in is up for debate.

Vorlon Planet Killers do reduce their astral body targets to rubble

I remember there being some contention on whether or not VP Ks actually blow up the planet or not, since some of the planets had survivors on them. My theory is that they do reduce the target to rubble, just that sometimes the Shadow Base was on the moon. The moon raining down debris is sure apocalyptic, but not something an advanced species can't evacuate with enough ships and significant casualties.

Inter Stellar Alliance = Minbari religious caste Empire

  • They move Capital of ISA from B5, a purpose built United Nations In Space, to Minbar and nuke B5. Why?
  • Season 4, penultimate episode, Delenn does the tanks on the lawn speech and says that the new ISA has an elected President and Council and all members of ISA agree to accept the independent authority of the Rangers.
    • An army trained to think like Minbari swears Allegiance to the One and has absolute authoritah. They don't swear allegiance to the Alliance or even the President of the Alliance.
      • If the Alliance parliament knows what's good for it, it will elect the One as President. If not...
  • Delenn seemed to be a good guy when she gave Workers the majority. National Parliaments have no power under Tyranny.
    • The ISA Advisory committee (the closest thing to an ISA parliament) has no real power and isn't, by the established constitution, able to contradict the president's orders. Except on the very rare occasions when the plot requires it.
  • If anything, the ISA is Delenn's personal empire. The army either swears allegiance to her directly or, in later years when she's President, to Sheridan and then Ivanova. Both of them will do absolutely anything Delenn wants if she pushes hard enough.
    • The only time the ISA refused to do Delenn's bidding is when--inexplicably--they refused to help recover her son from the Drakh/Centauri. This lead to her and Sheridan idiotically surrendering themselves to the Drakh (Sheridan's War Without End flashforward is part of this) in the hopes that they'd release David. Stupid, stupid, writing.

Delenn is the corporeal manifestation of the universe's collective will

  • In other words, she's god in mortal form.
  • The series is dripping with anvilicious hints that she's more than "merely" a special person touched by prophecy.
  • Everyone who comes in contact with her eventually falls under the spell of her charisma and accepts that she's right about everything.
  • She always knew to put to the right people in the right places to further her interests, months or even decades before anyone could have seen the benefit of her choices.
  • As with Valen and Sheridan, Delenn's body was never found.
  • The universe tends to neatly dispose of anyone and anything that stands in her way, often without requiring her personal intervention.
  • Circumstances always collude to her benefit when disaster lands on others, or even when her own mistakes bring disaster on others.
    • Dukhat's death meant that she had no senior rival to oppose her leadership during the Shadow war.
    • Picking Sheridan as her second for the war effort and concealing Anna meant that Lorien would be found and, as a result, that both the Shadows and Vorlons would leave.
    • Breaking the Grey Council lead to a civil war which ended in a way that made Delenn recognized by all three castes as undisputed savior/spiritual leader of Minbar.
    • Persuading G'Kar to be Londo's bodyguard in S5 meant that G'Kar would be able to save Delenn's life seventeen years in the future.
    • The retreat of the First Ones and Sheridan's shortened lifespan left Delenn as uncontested ruler of the galaxy for as many years.
  • That, or the whole series is told in a revisionist fashion by her supporters and/or descendants, or is told by using her diary/journal as a main supporting document. Remember that guy that was trying to reconstruct history in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars"? How do we know that wasn't closer to the truth?

Delenn and Ivanova became lovers after Sheridan's death

  • Dogwhistles galore.
  • Ivanova was openly bi.
  • Delenn's mannerisms around both Mayan and Si L Ivanova were somewhat suggestive that she could become as interested in women as she was in so many men (*cough* Neroon-Delenn UST, Dukhat-Delenn UST, S5 Lennier-Delenn unresolved something-or-other *cough*) that came near her....
  • Ivanova worked with/for Delenn for many years and never married.
  • Delenn and Ivanova have lost pretty much everyone they cared deeply about (both of them lost their birth-families and their male lovers) except for each other. They're not going to let go of each other.
  • When Ivanova died, Delenn ordered her minions to build a spectacular monument to Ivanova's memory and decorate it with flowers for eternity.

Delenn's reemergence in Deconstruction of Falling Stars was a message for ascended-Sheridan.

  • She refused to accept Lennier as dead because she never saw a body. Sheridan left no body. She's not going to accept Sheridan as dead.
  • As a high priest and religious zealot, she'd know that Valen's body was never found and may draw some conclusions about what happened to him.
  • She was likely aware of Kosh's message to Sheridan telling him to return to Coriana 6 for pick up.
  • Defending Sheridan's honor above all else from skeptical historians was an odd choice to make given how much she valued the contributions everyone else made to the Shadow war and ISA. Delenn, being as egalitarian as she is manipulative, would not have ignored all the other people who supported her unless she had an ulterior motive.
    • Odd choice? He was her husband for crying out loud.
  • That ulterior motive, probably, was to flatter ascended-Sheridan and tell him that Delenn would dearly like to be taken beyond the rim now she is nearing the end of her life.
    • Highly unlikely, if you remember Delenn's beliefs then she wouldn't want to go beyond the Rim and live forever as that would permenently diminish future generations of Minbari as her soul would not join the others and be reborn in them.

David Sheridan (Jr) and his parents are estranged.

  • He wasn't around when his father died. Duh. No child would do that voluntarily unless he had turned his back on his father.
  • If he wasn't estranged before Si L and parents deliberately kept him away from his father's death, he'll certainly be estranged by the end of Si L. That is the kind of offense that few people could ever forgive.
    • Unless they hid Sheridan's limited lifespan from their son he would have known this would happen when he started training as a Ranger.

Delenn intended for Lennier to be a surrogate son to her and Sheridan and had David when that didn't work out.

  • She clearly loved Lennier by S5 but her feelings seemed to be more like those between family rather than those between romantic lovers.
  • This may have been a replication of whatever emotional arrangement she had with Dukhat.
  • Defacto adoption may also be normal (or at least common) between high-ranking Minbari and their long-term personal aides.
  • Delenn is too much a master of xantos gambits to get herself pregnant by accident.
  • Now that is not a wild guess. That seems like what she was thinking.

Vorlons were originally bipeds, and deliberately favored bipeds among the lower races

  • Virtually all the lower species, even the insectoid Gaim and the cuttlefish-esque Pak'ma'ra, are bipeds. Virtually all the lower species have been Touched by Vorlons. This is not a coincidence; the Vorlons deliberately made us in their image (or, alternatively, Lorien's image). They also programmed the lesser races to react very negatively to anything with more than four limbs in order to make it harder for the Shadows to appeal to us; this is why humans have an instinctive aversion to insects and spiders.
    • Well this is more awesome than it being because of the shortage of non-bipedal actors queuing up to play characters in a TV show. ;)
      • Word of God is that the Gaim, like other insects, can be bred by the Queen to meet certain criteria (like how ants secrete certain enzymes to create workers or soldiers as needed). The Gaim Ambassador was specifically designed to fit in with other races, hence, zie was made to be bipedal.

Something was manipulating the Vorlons and Shadows; or They Vorlons and Shadows won afterall

  • Either A) the Vorlons have control of time to send Babylon 4 back. Or B) an unknown entity does and the Vorlons that appeared in War without End were just along for the ride.
  • If A) then the Vorlons would have known that Sheridan would tell them to "Get the hell out of our galaxy"
  • If that was the case that was what they wanted all along. If that is true, either the Vorlons defeated the Shadows or they were cooperating with them all along.

In either case Sheridan, Delenn, and Sinclair were each an Unwitting Pawn.

  • Alternatively neither Shadows nor Vorlons predicted what happend.
  • If so, something must have set up the machines that enabled the Stable Time Loop.
  • In which case, that Something was manipulating the Vorlons and Shadows the way they in turn were manipulating the Younger Races.
  • Conclusion: Either there is Something Else. Or the Vorlons achieved their real objective. Or both the Vorlons and the Shadows achieved their real objective.

What was Something Else? Other speculations have been given already. More are welcome.

  • Hmm, Something Else could be the Great Machine, which is sentient. Or run by beings deep in the heart of it that even Draal and the Zathrases (Zathrasi?) didn't know about. There's a lot we never found out about that machine - and it was the source of the tachyon beam that allowed the White Star to travel back in time to grab B4.
  • It's also a bit of a coincidence that B5 was built right on top of the Machine. Possibly another manipulation?

The Warrior Caste was Suborned by the Shadows

  • After a thousand years of stability it is hard to imagine a mere foreign policy failure causing a civil war, unless...
  • There hadn't been a large foreign war in hundreds of years either, in which case...
  • Prosecuting the Earth-Minbari war would also have been an anomaly...furthermore
  • The Earth-Minbari war could have been engineered if the warrior caste had help from the shadows. Furthermore...
  • The Human and the Centauri governments were also largely suborned by the Shadows and tentative feelers were put out to the Narn (namely Mr Morden's visit to G'kar). It would be strange if there had not been a similar visit to Minbari leaders. Londo was not the only Centauri they visited; why should Delenn's rejection be assumed to mean rejection by all Minbari leaders?...furthermore
  • The Warrior caste were suspiciously unwarlike when the Shadows arrived. Yet they were remarkably warlike toward the humans and the other Minbari...to sum

The Warrior caste behaved in a manner, not much different from how they would have behaved if they had been suborned by the shadows...under this interpretation...

  • The Minbari civil war could be interpreted as an attempt by the Warrior Caste to create a massive cover-up by taking complete control of the government to prevent their behavior being found out.
  • To conclude: the warrior caste was working for The Shadows all along.

Sinclair/Valen recognised that the Vorlons and Shadows were both amorally manipulating the Younger Races, and left hints to it in Minbari culture

  • "We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light". Minbari tradition seems to see this as "protecting the light from the darkness", but it equally can be interpreted as "rejecting the 'light'/Vorlons and 'darkness'/Shadows, and chosing a middle way".

The coin used to decide whether Londo or G'Kar would be evil fell down a drain.

Think about it. Word of God says that a coin was tossed to see whether Londo or G'Kar would end up being villainous; the choice was never revealed. Over ten years after the show ended we still can't figure which one was supposed to be the bad guy, because both Londo and G'Kar were just that complex and fleshed-out as characters. If the coin fell down a drain or disappeared in some other way than maybe JMS just decided to give them both some heroic and some villainous traits.

    • That's called Character Development, and is a sign of good character-building by a creator. Or would have preferred a one-dimensional "bad guy"?
    • Was it said that how the coin landed would make the decision? Maybe JMS counted how many times it flipped over in the air, and decided that's how many times Londo and G'Kar will go back and forth as the bad guy.

Clark had a Drakh Keeper

Clark's near destruction of the Earth was the first attempt by the Drakh to do so, which they followed up in "Call to Arms". The "SCORCHED EARTH" message was so convoluted and unlikely because it was his human mind sneaking a warning past the Keeper.

Sheridan's interpretation of his dream was wrong and Lorien was "the man in between"

"the man in between is looking for you": in between life and death, in between the Vorlons and Shadows, looking for a member of the Younger Races who was ready to stand up to the Vorlons and Shadows and end their manipulation.

Jack did not survive for long after we last saw him.

Smug Snake though he may have been, Jack would have been way too much of a liability to Clark to risk keeping him around, lest the Truth find a way of getting out. What better way to tie up loose ends than to have him Thrown Out the Airlock after he was transferred to the second ship?

The Streib are extinct

Given the Streib practice of abducting and torturing random people and EarthGov's xenophobia under Clark, they were probably wiped out after Sheridan's report on his abduction reached Earth. They did space all their experimental subjects once caught, after all. And Earth certainly has the military power to stomp on one relatively isolated and weak race that's hated by everyone who knows about them.

  • Streib have artificial gravity and I believe half-decent military technology. They're not really going to be a pushover. IIRC, they're an offshoot of the Vree, who do not suck. They just piss off people like the Minbari. Plus, I think they're Shadow Agents, they've got some really nifty backing, and are in with Clark's friends.

Delenn went Beyond the Rim to join Valen and her husband John Sheridan on her "Final Journey".

Think about it. Valen's body was never found. Neither was Sheridan's. It is reasonably certain that Sheridan - The One Who Will Be - and Valen - The One Who Was - went Beyond the Rim to join the First Ones. Therefore, it is only logical that Delenn - The One Who Is - should join them. Delenn has always been set up as Sinclair's and Sheridan's equal. It only makes sense that she would share their fate.

The Vorlons used the mindscan of Talia to enhance Lyta's abilities

Kosh already had a recording of an amplified telepath, complete with telekinetic abilities, and since he didn't use it for Talia he must have wanted it for a different purpose. Why would the Vorlons waste time figuring out how to modify Lyta if they can just use the template they already had? Lyta and Tslia's powers developped in different ways because of what they were practicing, they discovered their abilities in different orders.

Unwashed and/or unkempt hair blocks human telepathy

There's no other reason why Byron's refugee telepaths, who Byron states have not eaten in some time, should be so conspicuously well-groomed. Hair care products are a more vital necessity than food to them!

  • AS weird as this sounds it might be somewhat true. We know that having physical barriers between a telepath and their target can block a connection so if the telepath was dirty enough it might act as a barrier. Of course they could always being using their abilities to get into people's quarters and use their facilities.
    • Or they're just using their telepathic abilities to convince you that they are well-groomed and not filthy tangle-haired urchins.

G'Kar's first language is actually Centari

When he was born, the Centari had already occupied Narn for decades. It's likely the Centari imposed their language and culture on the enslaved population of Narn for their own convenience. (We know eating Spoo is a Centari custom that is still popular among Narns, for example.) G'Kar may have not even learned to speak Narn until he was an adult, when the Centari left Narn. We've just never learnt this due to the Translation Convention.

    • This would actually explain those scenes early in the show where G'Kar would be speaking to Na'Toth, both Narns, alone and yet still using human standards to judge things like time. If G'Kar was rasied thinking Centauri and the younger Na'Toth thinks in Narn terms then thinking in human terms would be a middle ground they were both equally familiar with and would facilitate communication!

David Mackentyre is a member of the SCA

David Mackentyre from A Late Delivery From Avalon had to get the sword and mail and medieval martial arts training from somewhere. He was a member of the SCA before he went insane and he always went to conventions under the persona of King Arthur. When he went insane he just adopted his persona.

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