Bleach/Headscratchers/Hollows

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • How did TK pick the "10 causes of Death"? What happened to "Disease" and "Hunger" and stuff?
    • By putting all of the known ways for anything to die in a fishbowl, shaking the bowl up, and picking the first 10 he got from it. I think that's how he also chooses what's going to happen next in the plot...
    • Maybe the other causes are assigned to former Espada. Nel's habit of vomiting over anyone and everyone, along with her ability to make a LOT of snot, could count for "Disease" in a very cracky way...
    • In the same way, I could see Dondorini being pride, which is definitely a cause of death among the human race.
    • Then how come there isn't an Espada for 'stupidity'?
      • Evidently if there was an Espada of Stupidity, his reign wouldn't have been very long.
      • "Stupidity" is a very broad term. To be honest, most of the causes/aspects of death listed could easily fit into stupidity. As in, things like greed, anger, intoxication, perhaps madness could easily be described as forms of stupidity.
    • Kubo made the espadas first and then came up with the aspects of death thing, which in my opinion work out better since he didn't had to try so hard to make the characters fall into one of the predetermined categories. If he decided to put Disease and Hunger before he come up with the characters he would had to try and make them seem like they fill the quota of Disease and Hunger.
  • Reading WMG has caused something to bug me. If Vizard have inner hollows, why don't Arrancar have inner Shinigami?
    • Well, while we don't know for sure, I'd bet against it. Why this would be is because of the difference in structure between the two types. An Arrancar is still a hollow who has developed "Shinigami Powers". What this extends to is that have a much more humanoid form, and that their original hollow powers are sealed inside a Zanpakuto. Everything else is all their normal hollow powers. The Vizard on the other hand, are some sort of Shinigami/Hollow hybrid. They are Shinigami (Or in Ichigo's case, a Plus who turned into a Shinigami right after) who then when through a partial (at least) Hollowification. While most hollows are aware of who they once were, you'll notice most of them go all Ax Crazy and generally aren't exactly like the person they once were, postulating that you could call the hollow a new being. Especially given they seem to get new names when they go hollow. So, the hollow is a separate being inside the soul itself. I bet if a Vizard went hollow (Or, probably they might just skip regular hollows and go Arrancar, because we don't know if you have to be a Menos for Shinigamification.) they would have an inner Shinigami. They would have who they originally were fighting to regain themselves.
  • Alright, so Barragan has that "Old Age" power right? And when he released, it was shown that all he had to do was be around something and it would break down and "rot" away (Like when he was walking on that roof and it crumbled). So why doesn't he just Sonido over to the other 3 pillars and make them rot? Yamamoto and everyone else who isn't injured or fighting the Espada and their Fraccion could come in and try to stop him, but they'd start to rot just from being around him, and then there's the fact that he was so fast that Soi Fon of all people couldn't follow him, and she's one of the fastest captains. And even if they do somehow stop him, I don't think they could counteract the rotting fast enough because it seems to act very quickly like with the buildings Barragan was walking on or with Soi Fon's arm.
    • Barragan is very arrogant (it's even the name of his Zanpakuto). He probably wants to put Soi Fon in her place before he does anything else.
    • Plus, I'm willing to bet Yamamoto's not so frail that a passive 'rotting' aura is going to be enough to take him down. He's the strongest of all Death Gods and apparently equal to Aizen (depending on how you read the databooks, at least).
    • Of course it won't take Yamamoto down, but it still should be able to stop him long enough for Barragan to do it. And why is it that whenever there's a situation where a character should be doing one thing (In this case, destroying the pillars) instead of something else (In this case fighting Soi Fon) they aren't doing that first thing because of being too arrogant, or too proud? I know there's people like that in real life so it doesn't make it unrealistic, but it always creates wall banger moments because it seems like a cop-out by the writer. They write themselves in a hole by creating a strong character who would be very hard to stop, and they have to make said character all full of themselves just so that the person fighting against them can win. How about making a character that can bring a challenge to the good guys without being arrogant or proud at any point and have them lose to the good guys by actually having the good guys to think instead of relying on them acting arrogant and stupid? Or having a character that's arrogant, but also has common sense so that way they don't get too arrogant or proud, realizing that those things are what can kill them if they're not careful?
      • Isn't that a fairly accurate description of how Barragan was defeated? Yes, his flaws made him a terrible leader; but that's his whole point. His first priority upon assuming command was to have his subordinates set up a throne of bones for him to sit on. Before Aizen took charge he was going to split his kingdom in half and have the two sides go to war, just because he was bored. And speaking in general terms, it still make sense for the espada to have debilitating personal flaws. Hollows are corrupt, sinful souls whose afterlife starts with them devouring their own families- this is not group that's going to include many responsible, well-adjusted individuals.
    • Besides, be honest. Baraggan/Barragan is a prideful jerkass "king" with a god-complex, who would much rather send his minions to do the work than do it himself. As for why he didn't do this after his minions were all out of the picture, a good explanation is that he was so pissed off about his weak minions (as evident by breaking his throne), that he mostly just wanted to take that out on a "little girl" like Soifon.
    • On the subject of Baraggan, shouldn't Soul Reapers be immune to his power seeing as they're immortal?
      • Soul Reapers are not immortal. They age very, very slowly. Baraggan explicitly explained that his power works on anything as long as it ages.
  • During Halibel's release, it looks like all her clothes disappear. If she goes back to her normal form, do they come back?
    • Grimmjow's came back, so probably.
      • That's awfully disappointing.
      • It is.
      • Thirded.


  • Where did Nell go after Noitra got beat? And did Grimmjow die for good?
    • Playing with Yachiru duh.
      • Oh I must have missed that chapter... my bad. But seriously, shouldn't everyone be going to help Rukia & Co. with the Yammy situation?
    • Grimmjow is more than likely still alive. People never die so anticlimactically like that in Bleach.
    • Tite forgot about them like so many others.
    • Volume 39 shows tthrough the mini-comics Kubo puts in the blank page corners that Nel has recently woke up, and thinks she's having a nightmare because Zaraki is there.
    • Grimmjow was alive, breathing and conscious the last time we saw him. That's a good sign, especially since every other Arrancar's death was clearly shown. I doubt Tite Kubo would simply let Grimmjow die off-screen somewhere and not mention it. Also, Ichigo deflected Nnoitra's last shot away from him and Spoon Head commented that Grimmjow was pathetic for having his life saved by his enemy. That means Nnoitra didn't think Grimmjow's current wounds were enough to kill him (probably why he attempted that last shot). Plus, if Grimmjow died after that it would mean Ichigo's action of saving Grimmjow would have been meaningless and pointless; something TK would be very hesitant to show. And finally, Grimmjow is one of the series most popular characters so odds are good TK's gonna milk that for all its worth. So yes, odds are very much in favor of Grimmjow still being alive.
  • How does Zommari represent intoxication? All the others fit pretty well, but intoxication seems like an odd choice for him.
    • He fits because he has no emotional restraint whatsoever, like a person intoxicated. He is, effectively, permanently drunk. Hence his... odd behavior.
    • He was drunk on Aizen-love.
    • I had assumed it meant intoxication figuratively, like intoxicated with power or something. Or something like that. Arrogance would have fit better.
    • I feel that the representations also have to do with what they can do to an enemy. Zommari for example takes away your control of your body one bit at a time, just like what happens when you are intoxicated. Too much and you gain addiction, thus the loss of sovereignty over your body.
    • Because he's the token black.
    • Zonmari and Syzael should swap places, this troper thinks. Syzael is waay more into intoxication than Zonmari (his Zanpakuto's command is 'drink', its name translates to 'You will fornicate', and he deep-throats the thing and gasps in pleasure as he transforms, for chrissakes), and Zonmari is less about intoxication than he is about being several spongecakes short of a picnic. Byakuya even calls him up on it, something to the effect of 'why are you being such a raving lunatic'?
  • Most of the arrancar's releases seem to be animals, i.e. Halibel is a shark, Nell is an antelope/horse, Grimmjow's a jaguar, there was a tiger, elephant, hawk, snake, and lion fraccion... So why the hell was Zommari a PUMPKIN?
    • Szayel's looks sort of like a parasitic worm to me.
      • More like an evil butterfly.
    • Not a pumpkin, a spheroid covered in eyes. Barragán's an Angel of Death, Ulquiorra was a demon, Aaroneiro (sp) was a cthuloid... thing, and Zommari was a Beholder.
      • Actually Zommari looks like a pokemon to me.
      • According to Bleach Wiki, he's a sea urchin, but I'm not sure if I see it.
      • I can see it.
      • You win.
  • Each Espada embodying 'an Aspect of Death'. I was under the impression that Aizen just created Arrancar from whatever willing Hollows he could find and the ten strongest became Espada, but no: now it seems he scoured Hueco Mundo far and wide to find ten hollows who were not only stronger than the rest of his followers, but just happened to have the perfect blend of personality traits and powers to fit in with an arbitrarily-chosen bit of symbolism. I mean, what's he trying to create here? An elite corps to send into combat against Soul Society or a bloody Super Sentai Villain squad? Next we'll find out he spent most of the Hueco Mundo arc sat on his ridiculous couch composing theme songs for them.
    • Its possible that it just worked out that way. He recruited the ten strongest, and the ten strongest either just happened to fit the death motif, or that they were so strong BECAUSE they fit the death motif.
      • Its also possible that he chose the motif because they fit it. Depending on what abilities/personalities the ten strongest could have had, he may have ended up with a "types of circus entertainer" motif. He's just incredibly lucky that they fit a thematicaly appropriate motif.
      • Cue Barragán Luisenbarn standing menacingly over Soi Fon. "Each of the Espadas embody an aspect... of the Circus Industry."
    • Just one question though... if each Espada is an embodiment of death, then how do the privaron Espada, like Nel or Cirucci fit in? And also, at one point, Luppi was Grimmjow's replacement for a short period. At that time, all the other Espada were the same as they are now. Somebody please explain to me how Luppi would be the embodiment of destruction...
      • Espadas represent "the ten ways people die", right? So Privarion Espada Dordonii could have represented "Insisting your opponent unleashes his full strength against you", which is certianly a way to die really, really quickly. As for Luppi... "Being Grimmjow's replacement"?
      • Well, I'd peg Nel as a Sacrifice type, possible Cirucci too (Given her willingness to cripple herself to win). Dordonii, eh, he could be "Descruction", he sure acts kinda like a mild Grimmjow. Assuming of course that the theme isn't set for each set of Espada, or all the aspects are constant.
      • My personal theory is that Barragán is just making crap up. He's incredibly arrogant, and could have easily made up the whole "aspects of death" thing just because it meant he got to give a cool sounding speech.
    • At this point, I'm still laughing too hard about Zommari being the aspect of intoxication to be really bugged by the whole thing. Sooooo much makes sense now...
    • But who the hell said anyways that the Aspects of Death are linked to a certain 'Number', and not to the 'Espada' itself? Barragan said his Aspect is the strongest of all, "Old Age". Then why isn't he 1st? Probably, because he was the 1st, but then lazyboy came. and Barragan fell back to the 2nd seat. Still, he kept his Aspect, because it's 'his'. Nnoitra might had been Despair all along, even when he was 8th, and Luppi might had been something 'entirely else', like "Pride" or something alike. Same with the Tres Cifras and Neliel. Nobdy sad, that all No3 has to be "'Sacrifice", or that these ten reason are the 'only' reasons people can die because of. There are numerous other aspects we could make up. Most probably, these are linked to the Espadas personally, and not to their seats. It all makes sense.
    • While I agree with you, I don't think Kubo actually put that much thought into the whole "Aspect of Death" thing. It kinda seems too...complex for him to think up of something as multi-layered as that and hide it under something simple.
      • In reality, Barragan was just being arrogant. Not everybody dies of old age, but everyone surely are born and die alone. Even twins that happen to die in a nuke, as they surely had different life experiences and would never perfectly understand each other. Or could be that Kubo is using a plot device that would be used in Zombie Powder, if he didn't give up due to emotional restrain. Yeah.
      • Born alone? Does every baby's mother leave early or something?
      • Um, hello? It's a METAPHOR. "You're born alone, and you sure as hell die alone" is a favorite saying of Dr. Cox from Scrubs. It basically means, obviously, you come into the world not knowing anyone or anything and having no real bond with anyone. Since, y'know, you were JUST BORN and don't realize the concepts of family and friendship? Sheesh...
    • It is mentioned in chapter 197, page 16 and 17, that Vasto Lords are more powerful than captains. So, depending on how many of the Espada are counted as such (in this tropers opinion, ALL of them since every Espada is human size, the one stated characteristic of such) it either makes sense or is complete BS.
      • It is stated that Vasto Lordes are human sized in their hollow form and that they have the highest probability of looking human when becoming arrancar. Besides we know that Grimmjow was an adjuchas (which means that Espada 7 and 8 probably were as well) and that Aaroniero was the last gillian. Also, Nnoitra was an Espada before Aizen obtained the Hogyoku and nothing about him seemed to suggest that he is a Vasto Lorde, so he was probably an adjuchas as well. It's still possible that Espada 1-4 are/were Vasto Lorde, however.
    • They are it's confirmed from the Anime they were.
      • When did this happen? Also did it happen in the Manga? If it didn't, it isn't cannon.
  • The whole deal with Luppi bugs me. Where did he come from? If he was strong enough to be the sixth Espada, why wasn't he the seventh Espada before Grimmjow's demotion? How was it that Grimmjow was able to kill him so easily if Luppi should have been, theoretically, only slightly weaker than him?
    • Think about the power gap between 5 and 4. Nnoitra and Ulqiorra. Now take that gap and apply it to 6 and 7, Grimmjow and the....guy who's name I don't know. Pumpkin dude. My point is that in between that gap, Luppi could be there. Not as strong as Grimmjow but stronger than pumpkin dude, Szayel, Aarroniero, and unreleased Yammy. He could have simply been created recently and Aizen hadn't gotten around to giving him a rank. But most people believe Luppi was there to motivate Grimmjow or something silly like that.
    • Wait, Luppi was a guy?
    • I always thought that Luppi was a powerful hollow that Aizen transformed when he knew Grimmjow was out of commision. Not on the same level as the other Espada but the most powerful Hollow Aizen had at hand. Remember the dude only has to wait for other menos to develop.


  • All these arrancar that the Soul Society have been killing lately, what exactly happens to them when they die? Do they go to the Soul Society and/or Hell? If so, do they retain their memories of being arrancar and do they look like their arrancar selves or how they looked when they were human? Do they already look like they did when they were human? What about all the Pluses and other Hollows they ate before becoming arrancar? Do they no longer exist or do the arrancar separate back into the individual souls?
    • Early in the series, zanpakutos are said to purify the soul of the sins it committed as a hollow. Arrancar are also described as many hollow souls combined to form a single entity. This Troper believes that all the souls in a single Arrancar (or other, lesser combihollows) to be split into the composite souls, who are then separately judged.
      • Menos Grande are described as the conglomeration of normal hollows. Arrancar are just hollows who have removed their masks to gain shinigami like powers. We've seen at least one Arrancar (Grand Fisher) formed from a normal hollow. The original question is still valid though since it's specifically said that slicing the mask of a hollow with a zanpaktou is what purifies it and Arrancar don't have proper masks any more, only mask fragments. What happens to Menos when their masks are cut is also a good question.
      • But all of the Espadas, I believe, are the highest form of Menos - Vasto Lords. Most Arrancars are just Gillians or that middle grade. Grimmjow for instance was definitely the highest form of Menos, while his Fracciones were all medium grade, and never progressed any further than that.
      • No, Grimmjow was an Adjuchas before becoming an Arrancar. We don't know how many of the Espadas were Vastro Lordes, if any.
      • And Aaroniero claimed to have been a Gilean.
    • It wasn't an Ass Pull; it was foreshaddowed completely. Most people just didn't notice, but when Nel met Ichigo, she mentioned that the Espadas all had single-digit numbers when she was contrasting herself with the Numeros, who serve the Espada. 10 isn't a single digit number. Nel casually mentioned the fact that there was no Espada #10, and nobody noticed!
      • Yammi goes from being an Espada when Numbered 10 to being the 0 Espada. It's a stretch in the first place given the ambiguity of the statement, but that doesn't change the fact that even when sealed he was still ranked among the espada. Remember, only the espada have their numbers Tatooed on their body, that he has a tatoo of that number at all is a pretty huge kick to such claims. He's simultaneously the 10th and 0th, weakest and strongest, espada, varying on when he's sealed or released. Which mind is all kinds of stupid by itself.
  • Aizen knows precisely where the intruders are, and has an entire army of arrancer at his command, ten members of which are able to give the protagonists a run for their money, why is he holding back?
    • Well, he's currently down by 5 Espada and he really can't spare the others because he needs them for his invasion of Karakura Town. He also knows that any arrancar below Espada-level wouldn't stand a chance against the protagonists, so it would be a waste to send in troops when they could be used elsewhere.
    • Put in the words of Xykon, "Well, now that my entertainment needs for the next few weeks are met, let's see what [these Ryoka] are capable of".
      • Aizen specifically ordered the Espada to leave them alone. Everyone going out to fight are technically disobeying orders.
  • Why is Aizen evil? The afterlife sucks and he's trying set up a Utopia last I checked...
    • He mentally abused Hinamori, which takes him across the Moral Event Horizon. He works with Hollows who are Exclusively Evil due to being insane spirits that eat people. All we know about his idea of a Utopia is that he's in control of it, which doesn't necessarily make it better than Soul Society. No, wait, you're right, he's a completely well meaning abusive, self centered, power obsessed, double crossing, twerp.
      • The Great Desert Bros. have retconned the assumption that Hollows are Exclusively Evil, and since Kubo's made the worst Complete Monster in the manga into a comic relief character... Can we just say he's probably going to end up a Well Intentioned Extremist and leave it at that?
      • They aren't exactly what you call your average hollows though, considering their spoilerific past.
      • One might argue that Arrancar are actually good guys. After all, instead of eating good spirits they eat other hollows.
      • Do you mean menos in morphing stage? Because arrancar eat what they want to eat - remember Yami eating the souls of living humans... And I never see them to eat hollows, it's what gilian morphing stage and adjuchas do, not arrancar generally.
      • When did Aizen ever say he wanted to create a Utopia? He just wants to be God. He's openly stated more than once that he considers everybody but himself to be expendable, why would he waste his time making the world a better place for other people?
  • Why do all the Hollows and Arrancar use Spanish so much? Going by Chad's arms, are Hispanic people more naturally predisposed to being consumed by loneliness postmortem, or something?
    • Maybe the first Hollows were Mexican or something.
      • Hispanic Mexicans are a relatively new culture for something like that, especially since they've been fighting Hollows for at least 2000 years in the Soul Society. Then again, Spanish is one of the dominant languages in the world - it was either English, Mandarin, Hindi, or Spanish, I guess, and Spanish won.
      • Spanish has been spoken in Spain since shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire. That's why the language is called Spanish and not Mexican.
    • Maybe Hollows were speaking it first, and the Spanish just copied them. Or maybe they just thought it was a cool language and decided to start speaking it.
    • The Hollows seem to have been inspired by imagery used in Dia de los Muertos. It could be that they spoke Nahuatl originally, and switched to Spanish when Mexico was conquered by Spain.
    • Tite Kubo said that he chose Spanish for the hollows because he thought it sounded "haunting and beautiful."
    • And has anyone else noticed that several spanish words used in bleach also have a meaning in Japanese? That's a real life It Just Bugs Me.
      • Do you mean like puns, when a Spanish word happens to sound just like an unrelated Japanese word? Or do you mean the annoying quirk of the Bleach Wiki to write things like: 虚閃, セロ, Sero; Japanese for "hollow flash," Spanish for "zero" Sero is not Japanese for "hollow flash." The kanji mean "hollow flash", but would not actually be pronounced as "sero" at all. Kanji characters in manga are usually printed with furigana beside them, small phonetic characters that show the correct pronunciation and make reading easier for young people. Bleach and other manga take advantage of this for stylistic purposes. Instead of writing out their nifty foreign-sounding attack in phonetic katakana, they'll shove the katakana off to the side in the furigana just to show how to pronounce it, while the attack is "properly" written using kanji that represent the meaning of the words. The best example I can think of besides Bleach is Slayers, where they like to write the magic spells with big kanji, but the magic words used to pronounce them aren't Japanese at all.
  • Everyone thinks Aizen is more powerful than he really is. Most of the people who fought him were either powerless (Rukia)or exhausted (Ichigo, Byakuya, Komamura). Aizen left before anyone else could actually fight him that long. So when he finally dies, don't be surprised if he loses quicker than expected.
    • Komamura was not exhausted. The only sort of exertion he could have had before facing Aizen was blocking one of Kenpachi's attacks, which did nothing but shatter his helmet. Aizen took out a fresh Hitsugaya and Komamaura both in one hit. He even said that the spell he used was not at it's full power. Ichigo had just come off a victory from Byakuya, who is a strong captain in his own right, and was healed by Orihime. Yet Aizen blocked his sword effortlessly and sliced him nearly in two. Aizen is every bit as powerful as people believe. And he hasn't even revealed his Bankai yet.
      • Actually, Ichigo hadn't been healed by Orihime yet. He was healed after he got his *** kicked by Aizen.
      • There's no reason to believe he wasn't at least somewhat healed considering the state he was in after his fight with Byakuya. The blood was all gone and he didn't look the slightest bit hurt other than a bandage on the side of his face. Compare right after he fought Byakuya when he stated he couldn't even stand.
      • You see him walking away from the execution hill supported on Ganju, so it's clear he hasn't fully recovered. The bandage was on his face during his fight with Byakuya, presumably from his Bankai training. I think Orihime didn't heal him because they were desperate to catch up to Rukia, and didn't think they'd have to fight another captain.
      • It's important to note that Aizen's First Release ability is Illusion. I'd be perfectly willing to bet that nobody has Ever fought Aizen, seen him in years, or spoken with him Ever. I've been working on the assumption that his Perfect Illusion thingy simply makes you (and everyone else) Believe he stopped you in one hit, made the real him (or army of mooks, or whatever) invisible and that's what injured you. After all, if you're in a perfect illusion, how the hell do you ever know what's happenning AT All?
      • Actually, since one of the requirements for falling under his illusion is seeing the moment he releases his Shikai, Ichigo's fight with his was very real. It becomes a plot point even... Unohana states that as the only captain-level fighter who hasn't seen the Shikai, he's the only one who can reasonably expect to land a hit on Aizen.
      • God I wish this were true... Aizen effortlessly took down the entire Gotei 13, and the Vizards.
      • By that point Aizen was getting a serious power-up via Hōgyoku.
  • Why didn't Yammy just, I dunno, fly?
    • If you're talking about Chapter 344, he was knocked out and severely injured by Ishida's spirit mine.The shock should be enough to stop him from using his powers and making him plummet all the way to the basement of Los Noches.Don't worry, he'll get better and he'll be pissed.
      • Indeed he has just fallen few minutes ago (being at chapter 346) and probably will return up soon.
      • Does soon mean six chapters later? Because that's how long it took. Apparently, his falling speed is slower than Ishida's elevator technique.
      • Maybe he landed shortly before that and just happened to smash his way into Rukia's fight with Rudobon at that moment.
    • Also, people can only fly in the human world, unless they have an artifact.
      • Ichigo "flew" (stood on the air) in Soul Society when he rescued Rukia, and both Ichigo and Grimmjow "flew" during their last battle.
      • How DOES flying work in Bleach anyway?
  • ...why is Ulquiorra wearing a such a plain dress? I know he's pretty, but if Kubo was going to make him a cross-dresser he could have at least given him a more impressive outfit, like Szayel had.
    • His zanpakuto release wouldn't fit a more impressive outfit, in this troper humble opinion.
  • How is it possible that Szayel and Ilforte consider themselves brothers when technically Arrancars are just a bunch of Hollows put togheter? And the "by adoption" thing, like in Soul Society, doesn't aplly, since Szayel shows to really dislike his brother.
    • Pretty sure most Arrancar are made from adjuchas, which are only formed when one soul gains dominance over the others in a gillian, so both of them could have been brothers in life and simply worked their way up separately.
    • It could be possible that they became Arrancar at the same time and Aizen referred to them as brothers. If he did, the title could have stuck with them.
    • When Wonderweiss is "reborn" as an arrancar, he states his name, so it's possible that Yylfort and Szyael did so upon their birth, and their dominant Hollow personalities were actually brothers in life (although this seems improbable given the number of souls in each Menos).
    • If this troper remembers correctly, Aizen referred to ALL Arrancar as being brothers.
  • I'm a little unsure about Aizen and his hollow army. Are all the current Espada made by him or what? How long has he been established in Heuco Mundo? Are the arrancar numbers designated by him or was there a system in place before he was around? IIRC it is stated that the Privaron were kicked out when Aizen started making his own arrancar (or something like that) but didn't he need the magic sphere thing to do that which he only got after Rukia's execution. Also, if he wanted hollow powers, why didn't he just Hollowify himself since he knows it works (Shinji and the others).
    • I think you mean "Rukia's attempted execution".
    • Ah yes, her "attempted execution", my mistake. The questions still stand though.
    • It's possible that Aizen simply doesn't know that Urahara was able to fix the Vizard and he doesn't want to end up like they did. It's also possible that he has already hollowified himself off screen and is waiting to reveal it at a critical moment. Or it could just be that he can't hollowify himself yet because the Hogyoku is dormant and can only be forced to work if someone with twice the spiritual power of the average captain pumps it full of spiritual power. This would mean that either Ichimaru or Tousen would have to do it to him, and databook stats (for whatever they're worth) show that they are much weaker than Aizen, meaning that they probably couldn't. As for all the arrancar, it's possible that some arrancar do come into existence on their own and have been since long before Aizen was around. If so, it would mean that these arrancar elected to join Aizen's cause when he showed up. Bleach Wiki suggests this, bu I don't know if this has a basis in canon, filler, fanon, or none of the above.
      • Aizen had his own orb before he stole the one from Urahara and combined the two. He was most likely building his army even before he became captain.
  • Loly and Menoly. They got mauled almost to death by Grimmjow for attacking Orihime and despite being injured she saved their lives!!!' Then what do they do? Attack her again, showing no gratitude for Orihime not letting them die (as she would have been perfectly justified in doing), and do it in front of a member of her nakama and their superior who has show some interest in the girl, both of whom could crush them like bugs without much effort. Seriously, that the hell?!
    • Um, Hollow? No hearts, despite every attempt to say otherwise?
    • Then what about Nel? She proved that hollows are not Exclusively Evil. Besides, one would assume that they would be intelligent to think "Hmmm...some really powerful guys are interested in this girl. Maybe we should wait until they are dead/no longer interested for sure before we attack her right in front in them."
    • They're mental psychos. Probably best not to read too much into it.
    • The reason they're given is that they are explicitly terrified of Orihime's power. When they initially attack her, it's because they're jealous of the preferential treatment that Aizen gives her. However, Grimmjow doesn't just maul them, he kills them. Orihime literally undoes that with her "Phenomena Rejection" ability. To creatures who are born from fear and death, the notion that someone has the power to simply say "No" and make death literally not happen and then being on the receiving end of that power would be a worldview shattering experience. My suspicion is that Tite is using their irrational behavior to slip in additional hints on just how powerful Orihime really is.
      • Or perhaps Kubo just has no idea on what to do with them except for having them be mean to Orihime.
  • WHAT THE HELL happened to Grimmjow and Nel? Is Kubo Tite counting on an Official TV Tropes' Brother Chuck Award for the Author who forgets about his own fucking signature Bad Guy and signature Cute Monster Girl!?
    • After reading everything above this post it is quite obvious that Kubo REALLY forgets his own continuity at times and just chooses which plotlines to follow by re-reading older volumes.
    • Well, I seriously doubt they bothered to heal Grimmjow, so he's probably still bleeding in a ditch somewhere. As for Nel, who knows? She was pretty well tapped out, so they probably left her with her buddies/Fraccion to recover while they assaulted Las Noches. Still, if that's the case, they could have at least mentioned it. Even like, one or two lines of dialogue saying 'Nel is at X, doing Y' would have been nice.
    • Nemu tossed Dondochakka and Pesche off into the distance, but they could come back at some point. Unfortunately, if they try a Big Damn Heroes moment against Yammy, it will probably be even less effective than the one they did against Szyael.
  • Ulquoirra said that the top 4 Espada couldn't release inside Las Noches because they were too powerful. Yammy is the 0th Espada, so shouldn't the place be blowing up now?
    • He was outside when he released it.
      • No he wasn't. But, 2 things. 1( A loophole, Yammy only counts as 0th when he's released. So therefore, technically he's not above 4 when he releases. 2( Does yammy look like he gives a shit about the rules? He's an angry dinosaur man.
      • Maybe it indicates that Yammy's full of crap, and his release only increases his power to the same class as the top four while not necessarily reaching the same level as the top four when they're released?
      • Remember, Espada aren't supposed to use a Gran Rey Cero inside Las Noches either, but that didn't stop Grimmjow. Some of the Espada care about the rules. Some of them do not.
      • I'm not so much concerned about the rules, it's the fact that the place hasn't exploded into oblivion yet when Ulquoirra said it would. And if the place does get destroyed, what happens to everybody inside it? Yammy should care if that's the case... Should.
      • Well, hey, sure, while Releases amp up one's ambient Reiatsu a hell of a lot, I don't think we've seen anybody destroy anything just with their newly freed energy. I'm pretty sure what Ulquiorra meant was that the ensuing battle and use of powers would destroy Las Noches. You can be damn sure that a few of those Cero Oscuras, and then later his Lanza Del Relampago would tear it up. Hell, the fight above tore some big ass craters in the ceiling. Now imagine that inside the super-structure. Now, the released Yammy has yet to do anything. We can be damn sure that once he starts throwing punches or using ceros, that place'll take a beating.
    • I get the feeling that Aizen's rule forbidding the Espada of four and above from releasing is more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. After all, Las Noches is HUGE! Imagine how long it took to set that place up. And just remember the damage from when Grimmjaw, a measly six released his zanpakto. Almost every structure in the vicinity during his fight with Ichigo went to pieces. If someone was capable of fighting at a level that would force the highest ranked Espada to released, then the resulting collateral would probably be capable of wrecking the entire place. The reason Las Noches isn't wrecked yet, even though Yammy released is because he hasn't started using that power yet. Once that happens, the place will probably start coming apart pretty fast.
    • Also you have to think about what the powers actually do I mean Starrk fires of ceros and those wolves make huge explosions Barragan ages things into nothing Ulqiorra"s Lanza del relampao has a bigger explosion than starrks wolves and harribel floods wherever she is Yammy's release just makes it easier for him to beat people up so I think the rule was just because Aizen knows only espadas 1 though 4 have abilities that could destroy las noches
  • None of them care about the rules. Remember that scene where Aizen blatantly told them to IGNORE THE INTRUDERS? Whoops.
    • Not all of them ignored the order, which was technically to just remain in their quarters, as only Nnoitra, Ulquiorra and Zommari went out (Aaroniero met with Rukia near his quarters, and Szyael opened a trapdoor to drop Renji into his). This had the useful plot-related function of preventing the higher-ranked Espadas from hunting down and massacring Ichigo and his friends.
  • The most recent chapter officially told the entire fanbase that we've been spelling Halibel's name wrong ever since we learned it. This Troper, personally, thought it was a bit funny—but she knows quite a few people who are highly ticked off about it (READ: plotting how to murder Kubo with flaming pitchforks). That's the real annoyance: it's just a name, people.
    • At least she hasn't been named in the collected volumes yet. It'd be a bother if it had to change halfway through.
    • Yet nobody ranted on Ulquiorra's last name actually being Cifer. Power of the Boobs people, Power of the Boobs...
      • Bring up one person who actually refers to Ulquiorra by his last name, or even cares, and this comparison is valid.
      • I liked "Schiffer" better (as well as Halibel, Coolhorn and Stark with one R), but I'm not enraged over it.
      • Cifer, Lucifer, LUCIFER. I see what he did there.
      • More like, a cipher is a person of no weight, worth, or influence, or a nonentity, according to Merriam-Webster. It fits in with the whole nihilism/emptiness aspect of his personality.
  • If Lilynette is, for all intents and purposes, Stark's zanpakuto, why do both of them have swords?
    • Perhaps Aizen gave them swords similar to the Zanpaktou so they could still fight the sword-wielding Shinigami... or perhaps Stark has them use them to allay suspicion about their true nature (after all, the Espada seem willing to turn on each other and the weaker Lilinette would seem a better target if it meant weakening Stark)... or perhaps the "we are one" bit was thought up after the duo appeared.
    • Just because it looks like a katana, and they call it a zanpakutou, it's automatically a zanpakutou? We've seen Arrancar zanpakutou of various shapes (Halibel's being a good example) and we've ALSO seen at least one instance of an Arrancar sporting a weapon (a small knife) that WASN'T a zanpakutou. Who's to say Stark and Lilinette aren't just armed with slightly-better-than-average katana, something like the training version of the shinigami Zanpakutou, while Lilinette is actually Stark's Zanpakutou's sealed form (and Morality Pet). It would be interesting if one of both of them became recurring characters after the Arrancar arc, along with Grimmjow, since they (Stark at least) don't have any REAL animosity towards the Shinigami beyond duty.
      • It would be completely awesome to see an omake segment at the end of each episode with stark and Kyoraku just sitting around and drinking
    • Also note that Lilynette doesn't physically keep her sword with her; she draws it from her horn.
    • It gives both an individual weapon to use - neither are as strong on their own (Lilynette as especially - her cero backhanded by Ukitake) as they are together. Which Starrk resorts to after Lilynette is killed by Kyoraku. As one of them says, now it's truly one-on-one. Somewhat-related point: Lilynette's the equivalent of a zanpakuto, and Ukitake and Kyoraku have either three or four (ignoring filler, it would follow that the Soul Reaper with two separate swords would get two spirits) zanpakuto spirits between them, it makes no sense that Ukitake thinks teaming up with Kyoraku would make things even. Twit. If he wanted to give up this impractical notion of honour for something that doesn't involve standing by and seeing his friends die, he should have just done. His intervention - "no arguments" - was fine until he tried to justify it beyond saving his mate's arse.
  • Back when Aizen first escapes from Soul Society, a bunch of Gillian rip through the sky to rescue him. However, Hisagi states that there is "something else," that appears to manifest in the form of what looks like (to me) a closed eyelid that appears behind the Gillian. This is never mentioned or referenced again and everyone seems to have overlooked it. But just what was that thing. It doesn't seem likely that it was a reference to the higher classes of Menos since they get progressively smaller as they evolve, and it obviously isn't a reference to the Arrancar. So WTF is that thing? Note, this is based upon the (hopeful) premise that Tite hasn't completely forgotten about it altogether.
    • That thing has been the source of a lot of speculation. But the fact remains that no one really knows what it is and unless it turns out to be Aizen's trump card either in Karakura Town or any future battles, we're probably never going to find out.
    • For the curious (like myself) who might not remember that scene precisely here's a picture of it.
    • That was before Kubo came up with the "they get smaller as they get more powerful" bit. Maybe he originally planned for them to get larger as they went on, but changed it later.
    • Possibly being addressed. In the latest chapter Wonderweiss shows up with a massive black creature with only one eye and Menos masks for fingernails. Looks like Kubo didn't forget.
    • Here's the link, for those who are interested.
    • Well, Kubo has stated he reads back through past issues for ideas...that or he checked this page and remembered. He could be here right now, reading this page...
      • Stop giving him ideas!
    • The thing is, though, the Superchunky (official name) just vanished again, with no further explanation as to what the hell it is. I mean, Mashiro kicked it or something, and then it either died or ran away, which made This Troper wonder why the Superchunky even bothered turning up.
    • Well.
  • Watching the recent Bleach episode with Allon made me realize something. How do Apache, Mila Rose, and Sun-Sun get their arms back after they create Allon? They said that Allon never listens to them, so that confirms that they've done this before. And it's not like they keep their arms so that they can get them sown back on like with Yammy, or have someone like Orihime to give them back their arm like with Grimmjow. You could say that Orihime did it for them offscreen when other things were happening, but I seriously doubt that she did every time, or that she was always there to heal them.
    • Perhaps when they dismiss Allon he turns back into their arms, which reattach themselves.
    • In the manga they actually tear their arms off, so I'm in favor of the "they get them sewn back on" but the "Allon never ever listens to them ever ever" thing just makes me wonder if it'd even listen to an order to change back
    • It's possible their initial creations of Allon were when they were masked Menos, meaning their arms could just regenerate. This still doesn't explain whether or not it would obey a command to disband though.
    • Maybe they can force Allon to 'disband' back into their arms whether it wants to or not? It wouldn't be much use as a weapon if they didn't have some method of shutting it down if it ever went berserk. Er... more berserk than usual, I mean.
    • Their zanpakuto release heals any damage they've taken up to that point (as evidenced in their battle against Rangiku and Hinamori).
  • Why is it that Dordonii - an Arrancar stripped of his rank, fallen from Aizen's favour, and relegated to what essentially is an empty dungeon section of Las Noches to quietly while away his days - knew about Ichigo's hollow transformation, but Uloquirra, who is one of Aizen's direct subordinates and by all appearances his Chief Information Gatherer, didn't?
    • Friends with Grimmjow?
    • Dordonii says he received a recording of Ichigo and his allies' fights in the real world. As for Ulquiorra, it's possible that he's surprised by the nature of Ichigo's transformation (and how it makes him akin to an arrancar) rather than the fact that he has it.
      • The 'I saw a video' thing really doesn't fly as far as I'm concerned - who made the video, given that the only method of video-recon we've seen so far is Ulquiorra's eye-thing? And if the video was informative enough that Dordonii could work out that Ichigo becomes partly Hollow when he uses it, surely Ulquiorra could too. (Sudden thought: Unless everyone received the video and Ulquiorra was just too uninterested to watch it, which would fit.)
  • How long has Aizen been in control of Las Noches. Nnoitra tells Neliel that it's been years since she left (by contrast, it's been two months or so since Aizen defected), which raises the question of when Aizen started forming his army, how he did so without the Hogyoku, how many Arrancars he made that way and how he kept it secret from Soul Society.
    • Perhaps it's possible that Aizen was popping in and out of Hueco Mundo prior to his defection, or having Gin or Tousen pop in and out of Hueco Mundo making incomplete Arrancars all the time. So, all the Espada prior to a few months ago are incomplete Espada made by Aizen without the Hogyoku, including Nnoitra and Neliel.
  • Why did Luppi look so human in his released form when he was only the 6th Espada? He's nearly as human as Harribel, the 3rd Espada and seemingly more human than Nnoitra. All that was inhuman about him was his armor and helmet, which his tentacles were connected to.
    • Grimmjow is more human-looking than nnoitra. hell, zommari is more human-looking than nnoitra. and szayel as well.
    • Somewhere on a fan site, I heard that non-Espada typically have white add-ons to their body (Luppi's carapace, tentacles and armor), as opposed to transforming completely (Zommari gets the pumpkin-like lower body and gets eyes all over his body, Nnoitra gets six arms). Arguably, the opposite is true; the Espadas transform more drastically than the non-Espadas do.
    • There's not that solid a pattern to it, and some of the above is pretty debateable anyway.
    • My personal theory is that the extent to which an Arrancar resembles a human isn't a representation of how powerful they are, per se—rather, it's a measure of how much more powerful they are than they were before becoming Arrancar. As such, Luppi got a larger power boost from his transformation than the others did, but was far weaker before his transformation than the other Espada.
  • Do the Espada's numbers reflect their IQ or something? First there was Arroniero, great set of abilities, who died of being really, really thick. Then there was Zonmari, also a great set of abilities, who died of being really, really thick. Now there's apparently Barragan, who appears to have died of being really, really thick. What's with all the Death by Stupidity, seriously?
    • This, so freaking much. Grimmjow also lost from being "really, really thick." Fist time he fought Ichigo - won with very little effort. Second time he fought Ichigo - Ichigo had his Vaizard mask and Grimmjow was missing an arm. He still kicked Ichigos ass so hard, both Rukia and Shinji had to pull a Big Damn Heroes moment. Then we get to their final fight in Hueco Mundo. Ichigo may have learned how to keep his mask on longer, but he was fighting Grimmjow, the guy who kicked his ass with minimum effort, in his released form. Ichigo should have been a goner, right? Well, he figured out Grimmjow's weakness, which is a direct attack. Grimmjow's proficient in sonido, yet it never occured to him to just sonido out of the way of Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou or Shinji's Cero. And during their final fight, Grimmjow just stood there like a moron and let Ichigo get him. Then he had the gall to complain about losing. Long story short: It's Plot Induced Stupidity on the villains' part.
      • Well, in IchiGrimm Round II, Grimmjow got his ass handed to him on a shiny platter when Ichigo had his mask on - he only started winning after Ichigo's mask broke. And when they fight in Hueco Mundo his control over his Hollow powers had improved (somehow or other), so their power was somewhat feasibly equal. There were still some questionable moments, like sitting there at the end and watching Ichigo charge for a good twenty fricken seconds, or suffering Kabuto Syndrome after your opponent grabs one hand, or trying to block a (very slowly-charging) Cero with a hastily-charged counter-Cero and your own face...Maybe it's a side effect of Shinigamification - the more powerful you get, the more retarded you become (In fact, case in point: Wonderweiss!). All I can say is that Nel once mentioned that Arrancar are Hollows who've "regained a reasoning mind", so if this is what they're like with brains, I can only imagine what they must have been like beforehand.
  • Aizen's origins and how he established himself seem like an interesting idea, but so far, they've only been hinted at, even in 371. It would have been nice to see why the Espadas besides Barragan joined him, how he established his army in secret (he took "Las Noches" from Barragan). It bugs me that this hasn't been explored in more detail.
  • Is Barragan a Vasto Lorde class Hollow, then? Judging from chapter 371, his release form and original Hollow form are pretty much identical, and before he became an arrancar he appeared to be the most powerful Hollow around. Of course, at this point, it seems as though the Hollow classes have kinda been forgotten about entirely...
    • I think that he was just a very powerful Adjuchas class Hollow. I think the only Vasto Lordes are Wonderweiss, and maybe Starrk, but that is a big maybe.
      • There's a good case to be made for Ulquiorra and higher being Vasto Lorde(not counting Yammy into this). What we know about the Vasto Lorde is that they are "stronger than an average captain". We know that Ichigo is captain strength. He got utterly curb-stomped by Ulquiorra(before Uber-Hollow form) - so he fits the bill of being more powerful than a captain(if we assume that Ichigo's Hollowification and Ulquiorra's Shinigamification essentially cancel each other out, then what we're left with is a comparison of Ichigo's Shinigami power and Ulquiorra's Hollow power). The ones above them fit the bill as well - Barragan couldn't be brute force killed by a captain AND a vizard-kido master. Hitsugaya landed, at best, a few scratches on Harribel and ice clone aside, he'd be dead. Starrk is doing pretty well against TWO captain class Vizards. Really, how powerful do they have to be for people to believe that those guys are VL?
    • It's possible that he's Vasto Lorde; Grimmjow, an Adjuchas, looked like a white panther while he was a hollow and became more humanoid as an arrancar. Then again, Starrk can't remember what he used to look like, or whether he more resembled Lilynette or Starrk.
      • It would appear that they might not be Vasto Lorde after all. Based on chapter 375, it would seem that Starrk is a naturally-occuring Arrancar: when Aizen met him, his mask had already been removed and Lilinette was with him (he states in 361 that she was created when he became an Arrancar). Barragan could have been a more imperfect natural arrancar, a little bit human but not much, who was subsequently improved by Aizen. The top three could basically have been adjuchas bordering on Vasto-Lorde with some natural-Arrancar thrown in extra. Besides which, the top three Espada being Vasto-Lorde doesn't make much sense story-wise; Vasto-Lordes are touted as being stronger than Captains to begin with, and Shinigamification ramps up a hollow's power something chronic. Vasto-Lorde Arrancar should be godlike, so it really would be senselessly anticlimactic for Kubo to go "Oh yeah, those three dead Espada were actually the most powerful entities it's possible to have in the Bleachverse so far." Then again, considering what happened to Superchunky...
      • Barraggan is a VL, it's pretty much confirmed. Halibel was.
  • If Stark is the Arrancar personification of 'loneliness'...why does one of his powers involve summoning a horde of wolves?!
    • I think it is simple; as per his status, he created Lilynette to keep him company, and the wolves have a similar meaning, and as a means to overwhelm opponents (Love and Rose are probably going to be ripped apart next chapter).
  • Did Kubo really just kill off two (underdeveloped) Espada in one chapter? Granted, Harribel's position as the "Espada of Sacrifice" may have something to do with that, but still... You would expect at least one of the top three Espada (Yammy doesn't count. That never happened.) to last through this battle.
    • Apparently. I think that Kubo is starting to realize that it's really been too freaking long and FKK is suffering from Arc Fatigue, so he wants to end it quickly.
      • I was somewhat surprised when Kubo skipped Harribel after Barragan and went to Starrk. While the order of Espadas being defeated doesn't correspond to their power (9, 6, 7, 8, 5, 4, 2, 1, 3), I was hoping the battle against Harribel would conclude before the battle against Starrk did and I was hoping the two would go on for a little longer and show more of the Espadas' abilities (Harribel could have some nice water-based moves and Starrk could use Gran Rey Ceros or some other special Cero attack).


  • Kind of a minor thing, but... way back during the fight with Grimmjow, he busted out the Gran Rey Cero by mixing his blood into a Cero blast. It was talked up for awhile; people commented on how special it was, how only Espada can use it, how it was forbidden inside Las Noches because it was so much more powerful than a normal Cero, all that jazz. If it's so great, how come nobody has used one since? I mean, apparently all of the Espada can use these things, but none of them ever do. Not even Starrk, whose whole gimmick is shooting Ceros. And Kubo didn't forget about it, because he actually had Ulquiorra mention them again when he was getting ready to use his release. So... huh?
    • And he even only used it once in that fight. Ulquiorra had Cero Oscuras, so it's a bit strange that he didn't use Gran Rey Cero.
  • If Barragan's Respira ability can decay someone's body to the point where all that's left is bone, then how come he was defeated by it when he's already nothing but bone? He shouldn't have any need for that barrier that protects him from his own power. And on the body parts of Soifon and Hachi that he disintegrated, the bone was left intact and wasn't rotting away like everything else. And before someone says it, the only way we know that the Espada's body are different from the Shinigami's body is the fact that the Espada have no heart (Which already makes no sense when you wonder why and how a spirit can have organs in the first place).
    • Look at Hachi's hand disintergrating again, the bone is rotting away too. Kubo changed things around a bit after Soifon got hit to have him defeated quickly.
      • The bone wasn't rotting away. In these two pictures, you can see that it's the skin, meat and clothes surrounding the bones in his hand that were rotting away.
      • Strange, I could have sworn chunks of the bone were disappearing... must have remembered wrong... Meh, note that either way it's gsone [dead link] by this part, so it had to have rotted away anyway.
      • It's more than likely that it could have just fallen to the ground, seeing how they were fighting in the sky. Or it might be the fact that Kubo hasn't been paying attention to detail lately, seeing how Wonderweiss skewered Ukitake with his left hand, but retracted a bloody right hand in chapter 364, or that Shinji had blood on the left side of his face from Tousen cutting him in chapter 367, to having no blood or blood stains on the left side of his face whatsoever in chapter 375, to having the blood reappear again on the left side of his face in chapter 376.
      • Unlikely due to the fact that it's floating there at the center anyway. I will grant continuity error as a possibility though. Really this whole bit reakes of BS no matter how you look at it.
      • It's possible that Hollows and Arrancar don't actually have bones, and that Barragan's "bones" were, in fact, his actual body; when arrancar have their arms cut off, you can't see any bones.
      • There have been tons of times in Bleach where someone's body part was removed from their body and you couldn't see any bones.
      • Does bone not age slower then the rest of the body? Then again his Respira could age magic and stone in seconds...
  • Why is Ulquiorra not the Espada of Despair? He even says that his released form is the "true form of depair" and he has the whole tear marks thing going for him. Also, the Espada of Nihilism probably wouldn't openly admit to his enemy that there are three Espada more powerful than him. On the other hand, Nnoitra was always smiling and bragging about how strong he was. Seems to me that those two definitely had their aspects switched accidentally.
    • Nonsense, Nnoitra was obviously boasting about because he was deeply insecure and afraid of the world. Ulqiorra does his whole 'what is a heart' and 'friends are meaningless' thing. It fits.
    • Maybe, but it would still work WAY more the other way around.
    • Also, Nnoitra's insecurities wouldn't be apparent to anybody but him since he went to great lengths to cover them up, so he wouldn't really be fulfilling the role of the Espada of Despair anyway.
      • Nel saw through that. And exactly how is Nnoitra nihilistic? The man goes on about how he'll live and fight until he dies on his feet. That's not nihilism. That's eventual suicide.
      • Nail. Head. Nnoitra may not be the depressed kind of despair, but his entire life goal was "to be living and breathing a constant non-stop war". All he wanted to do was kick ass and take names until somebody stronger than him snuffed him out (Which was why he hated Nel so much. She could easily have ended him several times just like he wanted, but didn't). Also, it's possible he wasn't always Despair. His number used to be 8, and I have a theory that the numbers are possibly tied to the aspects, and 8 is Szayel, or madness. And, well, moving from Madness to despair isn't to big of a jump, right?
      • Whoops. Turns out I, the original poster, was stupidly mixing up the words "nihilism" and "narcissism" when I wrote that. It makes more sense now. Still, Ulquiorra really didn't need to keep using the word "despair" specifically when making his transformation speech.
      • He probably wasnt. Remember, we're reading translations from japanese- the original word probably doesnt have a perfect analogy in english, or maybe the translator didnt realise nihlism was a better translation at first.
      • Nnoitra says during his last flashback that none of the hollows will ever find "redemption," so he doesn't see any hope or point to existence apart from fighting. It's especially telling how he compares it to alcohol,
  • Why is Tosen such a self-righteous douche bag?
    • He thinks that there will be less bloodshed if he supports what he believes to be the stronger side in the war. In other words, he thinks that the battle will be over quicker if he's on Aizen's side and, therefore, this is the side of "justice". Or at least that's what he claims.
    • He presumably believes Aizen will bring order to the world and end conflict, regardless of how many must die to fulfill his plans.
      • We are thinking about the wrong kind of justice here. I read the recent spoiler, and Tousen said: "My fear, from a hundred years ago is to be assimilated with you shinigami and die as such.", in response to Hisagi's questioning him. The woman who was Tousen's dearest friend, was killed shortly after becoming a Shinigami, by her husband because she scolded him for killing a comrade over a petty argument. His "justice" is against the Shinigami, because he believes they caused his friend to be killed by her husband, and that is why he joined Aizen: to claim his "justice" against Soul Society.
  • Was Neliel just really unpopular among the Espada? You'd think at least one of them would take issue with Nnoitra back-stabbing and forcing out an Espada that was more powerful than him over a petty grudge.
    • I don't think the Espada are big on camaraderie. Zonmari turns up at Aaroniero's body, and the only thing he says is essentially "sheesh, now I've got to clean up your mess, you idiot"; Syzael finds his brother's death more amusing than anything else; even Harribel, who shows an above-average level of concern for others, presumably watched Ichigo and Grimmjow's battle the whole way through, and didn't bother to do anything. I bet when Nel got sliced, most just went "meh. New promotion."
  • Why is Gin cutting Hiyori in half seen as something so morally reprehensible? They're actively trying to kill each other, it's perfectly legitimate.
    • One, Gin is one of the people staging the rebellion, so any injuries caused during it are at least partially his fault. Two, the horrifying brutality of his attack. Three, he still had that same jackass grin, so he was really enjoying it. Four, he didn't need to actually do anything at that point. Five, since when do bad guys claim self defense when the heroes try to stop them?
      • It's not about the morality of it - it's about the fact that one of the good guys' best friends just got cut in half. If, for example, you and your friends and family found yourselves having to fight a gang of criminals and one of them grabbed your best friend and gutted him, your first reaction isn't going to be "Eh, neat tactic there." Saying they don't have a right to feel angry about it is like saying that if a police officer gets gunned down by a street thug, his fellow officers have no right to be pissed off at the guy who did it.
      • I was in fact referring to the readers.
      • Ah. Ignore me in that case. :P


  • So, if the Big Bad Primera Stark can be beaten by Shikai, Yammy is still just a glorified Giant Mook (who Aizen left back home at his fortress), and Tousen, despite supposedly being above the Espada, hit the axe so quickly, how the heck did Aizen plan to make it past the cream of the crop Shinigami Captains of Squard Zero on his way to the Soul King if his entire army is just Cannon Fodder compared to the normal Captains? Yeah, Aizen himself could pose a threat, but if only he could do so in the very end, why did he even need to create a giant army?
    • While my initial instincts are to classify the fate of the Espada and the winter battle in general as bad plotting or an Aborted Arc, something makes me think that all this could be salvaged by way of Xanatos Gambit or some other kind of plan.
      • At this point the statements already passed by the characters as well as the way this whole thing shaped up, there's no way that any one explaination could possibly forgive all of it. It could be awesome enough that people ignore a lot of those things sure, but under the critcal eye there's almost assuredly going to be too many inconsistencies to hold up completely. And really at this point the pace and sheer length of time it's taken us to get this far is unforgivable.
        • The only thing that could slightly forgive this seeming weakness of Aizen's elite army would be something that was used in Katekyou Hitman Reborn: those are not the real elite army. I remember waaay back when it was explained what Vasto Lorde are that right after saying that "10 Vasto Lorde could destroy all of SS" the scene changed to Aizen greeting Ulquiorra saying that he should sit down with his "20 brothers and sisters". Could mean Arrancar in general, could mean Vasto Lorde, could mean fake + real Espada, could be something Kubo forgot alltogether.
  • How does Tsukishima's power work as well as it does? He's talking to Ichigo about how he retroactively modifies peoples pasts, while Ichigo shouts to his friends about how Tsukishima modified their pasts/memories. How do they not make the connection? Is his real power the ability to make his victims incredibly dense?
    • His power is that of a Mary Sue. Those affected literally can not conceive the notion that he's evil, and therefore to them Ichigo has to be wrong.
    • Let's put it this way: you have a best friend (1), someone you would trust with your life. You care about them to the extent that you would gladly risk your life to save them. Everybody you know who has some kind of relationship with this friend feels similarly- that they are an amazing person, that they are totally trustworthy, etc. And now another best friend (2), someone you trust and care about just as much as friend 1, is trying to tell you that it's all a lie, that you're imagining it, have been brainwashed, etc. Even though you remember them having the same type of relationship with friend 1 as you do. Are you seriously suggesting you'd immediately believe friend 2? Most people would think that friend 2 was showing symptoms of mental illness. Also, bear in mind that Tsukishima has not said anything about his powers to Chad and Orihime after he has already changed their histories. Therefore, to them, whatever has been revealed about him never happened, so they do not know that he is evil, or that he is anything but their best friend. He's done some explaining to Ichigo, but only dropped cryptic, seemingly-unsuspicious hints to him when people affected by his Fullbring are near enough to hear him. So they all just think that Ichigo is crazy and that Tsukishima's words are nothing more than a friendly equivalent of the verbal bitch-slapping we've all come to expect in Bleach fight scenes.
      • If I had, in the past, dealt with Kyoka Suigetsu and heard of the duplicity of the widely trusted Aizen, which proves to me that alterations of mind and perception are real (meaning I would take EVERYTHING I see and know with a whole lotta grains of salt), and the trusted person never denied brainwashing me (or get offended at the idea) and in fact made statements that sound, while vague, suspiciously like confirmrations or mild corrections (as in, "its not changing the past, its creating a new reality" kind of thing), then yes, I would get suspicious of my best, most trusted friend, especially if the one doing the accusing was a friend I trust even more, since its clear that Orihime is still in love with Ichigo and Chad still remembers learning to fight to defend Ichigo, so they still SHOULD trust him enough to not dismiss his statements automatically. Any one of these things wouldn't be enough, but all together? I'd take Tsukushima aside and do some hardcore interrogating, albeit interrogating interspersed with apologies. All of this goes, like, TRIPLE after seeing Tsukushima alter someone's personality and memories when he stabs Ginjo a second time.
    • This point falls apart when you realize Ichigo never tried to tell his friends about Tsukushima's ability and when Tsukushima explained it to Ichigo they were alone.
      • Subverted the bleach wiki states that if the victim begins to realize inconsistencies with Tsukishima's presence in their past, and what has actually happened, they begin to suffer mental damage
  • If the Substitute Shinigami Badges are actually surveillance devices, and Ginjou is fully aware of this, why is he still carrying his around?
    • He probably had it hacked somehow or other to turn that off.
  • Why didn't Tsukushima just use his ability on Ichigo instead of wasting all of that time and effort trying to gain his trust through normal means? And if Soul Society knew about Ginjou, why didn't they tell Ichigo earlier instead of waiting until after he had gotten himself a power-up to fight him? And why not, you know, TELL Ichigo that, hey, we're working on a way to get your powers back to fight this guy, so just hang on a sec? Oh, and if Ginjou as a quasi-legitimate complaint about Soul Society, why wait until *after* he's screwed Ichigo over to tell him about it instead of before when Ichigo still might have been sympathetic enough to listen to him?
    • Ichigo doesn't really have any dead mentor or emotional tie figures Tsukushima can replace like he did Orihime's brother, Abuelo, or Byakuya's sensei, other than Ichigo's mother, and I sincerely doubt he's willing to pretend to have been married to Isshin. As for why they didn't let him know, they COULDN'T, he couldn't hear them at all until his powers were recovered (no, I don't know why they didn't relay a message). As for why Ginjou didn't explain his legitimate complaint, it relates to another reason Tsukushima didn't bother: Ichigo is loyal to both his ideas, and to a great number of True Companions, and is exceedingly unlikely to turn away from either, even if given a good reason or a single rogue companion. Trying to persuade him now is kinda a last-ditch effort by a guy who never planned for Ichigo to live more than twelve seconds after Ginjou getting his powers back.
      • Tsukushima has never shown that limitation on his power. All he would need to be is another friend who went to Soul Society and HM with him.
  • How does Ginjo have a bankai, given that he's supposed to be just a substitute shinigami? Does being a substitute shinigami mean your body now ages at the same rate as your soul? Did he actually 'die' a long time ago, and is just using a gigai? Basically, where did Ginjo get the decades of time required to master a bankai?
    • Why automatically assume he'd need decades? Ichigo didn't need decades. If Ichigo was special in part because he's part human, part shinigami, then why wouldn't Ginjou be 'special', too?
      • Ichigo only learned it in three days because that's how Urahara's doll works; instead of taking years to learn bankai, it takes days. Maybe Urahara and Ginjo know each other from way back?
      • Not the point. The point is that a rule-breaking method was invented by the author for Ichigo to learn bankai as the plot demanded. If one rule can be broken for one substitute why automatically assume another substitute would have no choice but to follow the rules?
      • Ginjo uses bankai because he absorved Ichigo's abilities, including bankai and getsuga tensho.
  • The full colour picture of Ginjō in his Bankai state in Chapter 477 shows his sclera are red. This Troper is wondering if this means Hollow Ichigo's sclera are also red, seeing as the lines on Ichigo's mask are bright red in the manga and black/reddish-black in the anime.
  • Exactly how could tsukishima lose to byakuya, or fail to make byakuya as blindly loyal as orihime and chad? From what we've seen, he inserted himself into their memories as not only the most important in their life, but also as the one who saved rukia and soul society (which means he basically took ichigo's place in their minds).So, shouldn't byakuya's undying loyalty be toward him? Byakuya should have fought against soul society to fight against tsukishima's ennemies. Or was he really okay with killing the one whom he owes everything, who saved his sister's life, his life and the gotei 13?
    • I think Tsukishima inserted himself as Byakuya's swordsmanship teacher only. Hence him saying that he was taught Byakuya everything he knows. He only inserted himself as a friend of Ichigo and Co.'s in Chad and Orihime's memories. He did not take Ichigo's place, the anime makes this a bit clearer. So in Chad and Orihime's minds Tsukishima helped them rescue Rukia along with Ichigo. In Byakuya's mind he was just his Swordsmanship teacher, which is apparently not enough for Byakuya to not kill him for going against Ichigo.
    • But isn't it weird for tsukishima to make such a mistake? he made himself appear as the ultimate combination of the persons close to chad and orihime (ichigo's cousin,nakama,key preson in each of their fights,big brother or grandfather,...), but failed to do the same to byakuya? Especially since it seems he's quite used to his abilities. Really it seems more that kubo wasn't allowed to show byakuya being beaten, and made tsukishima grab the idiot ball.
      • Given Byakuya's desire to represent the ideal aristocrat and samurai, it's not a stretch to assume that - as in keeping with idealised samurai - the most important person in his entire life is the mentor that trained him in the samurai way. The difference between Byakuya and Sado/Orihime is that Sado and Orihime have never made a secret of how Ichigo has benefitted their lives so their bond with Ichigo would be an obvious target for Tsukishima to attack. Byakuya keeps his mouth shut about his bonds, they tend to have to be dragged out of him or observed indirectly via his actions instead of his words: even Tsukishima observed Byakuya's very shy about sharing information with anyone but those who are the closest to him. Byakuya is, however, very open about his desire to represent the idealised image of the aristocratic and samurai. On that basis, there would therefore be nothing wrong with Tsukishima's reasoning - the ideal samurai's greatest bond would be to his mentor and that's exactly what Tsukishima targeted. He simply didn't understand the impact Ichigo'd had on Byakuya's life and mentality to realise that Byakuya's greatest mentor was actually Ichigo. He therefore targetted the wrong bond.
  • I just watched episode 365, and a question struck me: In a coloured page of the corresponding manga chapter, it shows Ginjo's sclera in his Bankai to be red, but in the anime he has Black Eyes of Crazy. Similarly, the markings on Ichigo's Hollow mask were red in the manga and black in the anime. My question: does this indicate that Hollow Ichigo was meant to have red sclera as well, but the anime art department coloured them black?

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