Digimon Xros Wars/Headscratchers
- What the hell happened to the levels? Child, Adult, Perfect, Ultimate... I haven't seen a trace of them yet, not even for the main digimon!
- Even though Digimon themselves do have levels, the exact power of a specific digimon can vary between level. In other words its possible to have a Child level digimon on the same level as an Adult or Perfect digimon. Though this season the children seemed more into the use of strategy than pure raw power.
- It's not just that, the official materials has discarded the growth levels for all the new Digimon. Presumably the v-pets will establish growth levels for the main Digimon, though.
- Digimon levels never really mattered in the franchise itself. Remember Lucemon the Digimon whom it took legendary warriors to defeat? He's child level.
- That was the whole reason why lucemon was scary strong, it was the exception, not the rule. You can still see some hints of the levels with rookies and champions (or child and adult) serving as common soldiers and ultimates/megas(perfect/ultimate) leading them. And none of the megas has had a chance to show their power yet, with neptunmon(olympus 12 mega) having his own spear defeat him and leviamon (demon lord mega) being summoned to defeat a mere champion. As said before, tactics are now more important than pure power.
- It may have been done to give the anime producers more creative freedom. Now they can just pick whichever Digimon they think will be the most entertaining or most fitting, without having to worry about a Digimon's level being too high or too low.
- This is how I see it as well. There is no longer an excuse as to why one enemy is stronger than another even though the level is lower or plot convenience like that. Now, battles are based around tactics and creative freedom. Of course, that could introduce a different kind of convenience as well....
- The Digimon in Xros wars don't seem to evolve at all. It seems they're born what they are and they die what they are. Like in Monster Rancher. Even when Baalmon becomes Beelzebumon, the materials treat it more like reincarnation than evolution.
- Regarding that even further We see in episode 13 a much younger, pre-teenish Ba'almon so not only do Digimon have biological parents in this universe, they have to actually grow up as well.
- Shoutmon was able to digivolve into OmegaShoutmon and MetalGreymon digivolved into ZeedGreymon. So evolutions exist, it's just it works differently in this universe. And I consider it the same as back in Digimon Adventure 02, just a different naming scheme. Greymon plus MailBirdramon did yield MetalGreymon (a very different one from before, but since this Greymon seems to have the Virus coloration, it makes sense), so it seems they're really new Digimon to some degree.
- Even though Digimon themselves do have levels, the exact power of a specific digimon can vary between level. In other words its possible to have a Child level digimon on the same level as an Adult or Perfect digimon. Though this season the children seemed more into the use of strategy than pure raw power.
- So, MadLeomon had a piece of Code Crown in him. Why did Tactimon not know this? If he did, why did he let Leomon out of his base, and make him go out and fight someone who had defeated him twice already? I guess it could be a really clever Xanatos Gambit, but heck if I know how.
- It actually makes sense if you pay attention to Tactimon's dialogue so far. In episode one, he commented on how MadLeomon was making a mockery of his spotless record. And we know he's obsessed with perfection. I'm thinking Tactimon cared more about cutting the infection out of his ranks rather than about the Code Crown itself. Essentially, MadLeomon had a sink or swim chance, and now he's not around to embarrass Tactimon further. Since there seem to be loads of Code Crowns, he probably considered this a calculated loss.
- As we find out in later episodes, the Code Crown was not really in MadLeomon but more specifically given to the ruler of the zone so Tactimon sending him out had nothing to do with him having the Code Crown inside of him.
- It actually makes sense if you pay attention to Tactimon's dialogue so far. In episode one, he commented on how MadLeomon was making a mockery of his spotless record. And we know he's obsessed with perfection. I'm thinking Tactimon cared more about cutting the infection out of his ranks rather than about the Code Crown itself. Essentially, MadLeomon had a sink or swim chance, and now he's not around to embarrass Tactimon further. Since there seem to be loads of Code Crowns, he probably considered this a calculated loss.
- How is Kiriha The Lancer, many boards and forums have told me otherwise. Also episode 11 seems to destroy The Lancer or Lone Wolf that Kiriha would have been in this season. Maybe Akari or Zenjirou may become it later or on or even Nene but it seems Kiriha will not be it for this season.
- Episode 11 where he has a brief cameo and then wanders off . . . he got no character development during that episode aside from a brief cameo, so please explain to me why that proves he's not the Lancer . . . ?
- He isn't, he's a rival. Becoming one later is a possibility though.
- As of second half of series, Kiriha is the only real option for Lancer, Nene's mainly there for backup.
- Episode 11 where he has a brief cameo and then wanders off . . . he got no character development during that episode aside from a brief cameo, so please explain to me why that proves he's not the Lancer . . . ?
- But can anyone explain why they are killing enemy soldiers left and right, as if they were psychopaths? Even in Digimon Adventure they killed only for self defense until they knew they would be reborn.
- Another hint at psychopathy; they don't care, ever, how their parents are doing. At most, Akari felt homesick by episode 10, without any indication prior. Heck, even Frontier showed something! I hope that the Lampshading in episode 15 means this is only because there is some Executive Meddling involved...
- It's war. Note that they are willing to help Digimon who are actually not going to harm others. And as far as homesickness is concerned, they pretty much finished talking about it in episode 2 - Taiki doesn't want to return yet when he wants to help Shoutmon, Zenjirou sticks with Taiki, and Akari, after episode 10, decides to join him.
- Except that what he actually did (in 2) was threaten to not help, rather than worrying (Akari and Tsurugi were trying to talk him out of it). And, Akari's moment in episode 10 feels more like ("I know! let's worry!") rather than not being able to take it any more. Honestly, I just hope that this means that the writer is only focusing on what she perceives children to be interested in, rather than being accurate.
- Well, she brings it up again in the recent episode. I really just think the characters don't really have a lot of times where they can catch a break and worry about these things since they are constantly fighting with the episodes being in arcs and all. About them deleting mons left and right....what else are they supposed to do? There are no Digieggs in this universe, similar to that of Tamers, there are no lines so Digimon can't be reborn anyway (unless you're Beelzebumon or something) and there's enemies coming at them left and right. This is war, I don't think just worrying about the enemy is an option.
- To make myself clear: I'm not commenting on the characters; I'm commenting on the way they are written. Bringing up, here, manages to feel not as a characteristic but a post-thought. And I worry about anyone that kills (because they don't bother to ask) because someone that he just met minutes ago tells them it's a war (I'm sure thats not the intention).
- I understand your worries, really. However, I don't think it's an enormous deal. I mean, Xros Heart very rarely instigates fights and the first thing the first Digimon they saw did was try to kill them. I mean, it's not like they're fighting "everything." Just the Digimon who attack them. I very rarely saw the Tamers contemplate about deleting their opponents if they did at all. (though I do know they brought up if it was right to absorb their data)
- To close this off: the Tamers did discuss if it was right to kill; the conflict resided if the Digimon should be treated as data (i.e. battled and killed for experience) or living, conscient beeings (kill if necessary). Absorving data was almoust an afterthought, since it was found not to be needed to digivolve (or evolve; the same really). And the previous paragraphs cover it nicely.
- Another hint at psychopathy; they don't care, ever, how their parents are doing. At most, Akari felt homesick by episode 10, without any indication prior. Heck, even Frontier showed something! I hope that the Lampshading in episode 15 means this is only because there is some Executive Meddling involved...
- The episode where Shoutmon X5 appears bugs me. Shoutmon X4's gripe was that he couldn't fly, so he couldn't beat an aerial opponent. However, both of his alternate forms can fly or at least float. X4K/Knight was obviously in the air during his fight against Mugendramon in episode 14, and X4B has Beelzebumon's wings (they're tiny, but they work) and has also been shown to be able to fly. Heck, Beelzebumon probably could have taken out Lucemon himself, but of course he had to get Worfed out of the picture to account for that. So what's the big deal about X5? Speed? Sparrowmon's lasers? It can't be flight.
- This isn't the first time the series has done this. Dukemon Crimson Mode's big draw was supposed to be that he could now fly, despite clearly flying several times before. As a general rule, all Ultimate-level or equivalent Digimon can fly with no explanation needed, and will often find themselves forgetting about it when the plot calls for an upgrade's hyped effects to be solving their inability to fly.
- That's right! Dukemon could fly without Grani! But what other times did something like that happen? I don't remember any others. (The only season I haven't seen all of is Savers, so maybe I missed something.)
- Actually, that's not quite right. In the episode Grani was introduced, it was established Gallantmon could jump really high and slowly float down, but simple high-jumps and brief hovering aren't the same as flight under one's own power.
- Besides the huge power boost that comes from forming X5, its implied that the main advantage is speed. While there's nothing that implies that X4K would have been fast enough (or not fast enough), it's clearly demonstrated earlier on in the episode that Beelzebumon wasn't fast enough to make it through Lucemon's Beam Spam attack, a deficiency that would probably translate to X4B. So, not only does X5 have power, but he has the flight speed to make it through Lucemon's attacks.
- This isn't the first time the series has done this. Dukemon Crimson Mode's big draw was supposed to be that he could now fly, despite clearly flying several times before. As a general rule, all Ultimate-level or equivalent Digimon can fly with no explanation needed, and will often find themselves forgetting about it when the plot calls for an upgrade's hyped effects to be solving their inability to fly.
- So, evolution in this series involves temporarily turning into your future self, right? So why does ZeekGreymon evolve from MetalGreymon instead of regular Greymon? Are Greymon and MailBirdramon going to Xros permanantly at some point?
- Perhaps ZeekGreymon is what future!Greymon and future!MailBirdramon will be able to Xros into.
- Alternately, Greymon will eventually evolve to Metal by upgrading himself with discarded machinery, much like the "canon" explanation for the original MetalGreymon. Then he evolves to Zeek over time. The Xrosed form is just a way of reaching that future form early on, with many of the same qualities, it's just that it's not a true evolution- but since the Xrosed MetalGreymon is close enough, he can evolve anyway.
- Why is Shoutmon's Xros with Darululumon a pair of guns? If they were drills or even spinning it would make sense but as it stands that Xros make no sense. The same goes for Shoutmon X 4 B, why does it become a centaur? There is nothing about Shoutmon X4 or Beezemon that suggest four legs. If it was going to go centaur it should have when darullumon was added since he's the only four legged mon they have.
- It's more that Shoutmon's evolutions in general only make as much sense as they want to. Take Shoutmon X2, when he picks up the Star Axe or sword he doesn't become Shoutmon X3 but if X3 picks up the sword that upgrades him to X4 for some reason instead of X3 (with sword!) it's not permanently attached to him he's given it to others before but remained in X4. What's more is x2 and x3 make sense. They are crosses of two and three digimon respectively. x4 however has 5 and x5 has 6. If we don't count the sword then both forms have one less digimon so either way that doesn't work. What would happen if Shoutmon x3 tried to xros with Sparrowmon without his sword in hand (aside from the animators being pissed about being asked to work I mean?)
- It's worth pointing out that Starmon and the Pickmons essentially count as one Digimon in the Xros (sharing their shot in the opening). The sword's also much more powerful than the axe. It would seem to have to do with how much power each Digimon adds to the Xros- X3 can only be made with Shoutmon, Ballistamon, and Dorulumon present, and the Star Sword boosts that power to X4. Presumably there's something special about Sparrowmon (besides the obvious flight and speed boost) that then boosts in to X5 while Beelzemon and Knightmon can't. If Sparrowmon were Xrosed to X3 it would probably be a X(insert letter) rather than a full boost, or Sparrowmon would turn into some other kind of armament.
- They become X4 because before the sword is by itself, later it gets attached to Shoutmon's microphone to get longer. The numbers work if you count the sword as one form and the rest as separate entities.
- It's more that Shoutmon's evolutions in general only make as much sense as they want to. Take Shoutmon X2, when he picks up the Star Axe or sword he doesn't become Shoutmon X3 but if X3 picks up the sword that upgrades him to X4 for some reason instead of X3 (with sword!) it's not permanently attached to him he's given it to others before but remained in X4. What's more is x2 and x3 make sense. They are crosses of two and three digimon respectively. x4 however has 5 and x5 has 6. If we don't count the sword then both forms have one less digimon so either way that doesn't work. What would happen if Shoutmon x3 tried to xros with Sparrowmon without his sword in hand (aside from the animators being pissed about being asked to work I mean?)
- This is bitching, I know it's bitching, but here we go. Honey Land arc. After Nene gets her plot-mandated powerboost of Mervamon (awesome) and they snatch Ignitemon (awesome), they get down to the business of working out how to off Zamielmon, who is too small and quick for Mervamon to hit with her BFS. Taiki thinks, out loud, "so we either need to stop his movement or increase his size". They go with the latter (which backfires), when Ignitemon's entire gimmick is paralyzing his targets in a huge area of effect. Probably the only time in the entire series when Taiki has held the Idiot Ball.
- Zamielmon was incredibly quick, and probably could have dodged it easily when he was small. Then Ignitemon would have been right in the line of fire which wouldn't have ended well for him. After all, he'd still have to look where he was aiming, and when you're looking for a small target...
- Zamielmon was also so much more powerful than Ignitemon that there was no quarantee his power would have worked.
- Something that's been bugging me about the DigiMemories: so they're supposed to be the remnants of legendary heroes who once saved the Digital World, right?...Except that the very first one Taiki used was Leviamon. Y'know, one of the Seven Great Demon Lords, the living embodiments of pure evil in the Digital World? This guy is a hero who saved the world? (Granted, Beelzebumon is one of the SGDL too, and he's consistently portrayed as a protagonist, but that seems to be a franchise tradition at this point ever since Tamers. But none of the other Demon Lords have ever been portrayed in a remotely positive manner up to this point, so I still think my surprise is warranted.)
- Maybe it was a Leviamon, but not the Leviamon? This troper likes to think there can be multiples of each, but there is only ever one that's actually part of the group. Or maybe he just thought it was in his best interests to save the world, since dying is kind of a crappy alternative.
- I don't think it's the same Leviamon either. One thing's for sure: this Beelzebumon is not one of the SGDL. It wouldn't make sense for him to be a "holy warrior" and part of that group. Just the one from Tamers is -- or at least, his "type" of Beelzebumon.
- It is probably the same one. It was said that all of the Digimemories weren't good monsters. He went to save the Digital world out of jealously maybe? It was his right to destroy it and no disaster was going to take that away from him, he just didn't expect to die in the process of averting it perhaps. Heroes is what the modern Digimon thought they were but the later explanation came from one of the memories themselves, so details became distorted through time.
- Honestly I don't what the big deal is. If another one of the Seven Great Demon Lords turns out to be good I'm fine with it. Even if it's a tradition for Beelzebumon to turn good that just shows that even the Great Demon Lords can reform and be good guys while still having a Demonic appearance. I was honestly hoping for Lucemon to be a good guy when he appeared in the series.
- Why did the positioning of Ballistamon and Dorulumon's heads change for X7? For X3 through X5, Dorulumon's on the right, Ballistamon's on the left. On comes X7 and bam, it changes. Weird question, yes, but it's just a little thing that niggles at me.
- If this anime is not liscened for America and never will be, why do they bother deleting subs from youtube? Their not making any money doing so. I wish they would be this zealous about all the fake videos
- First off, how do you know if it will or will not get licensed? Secondly, copyright, people watching it online DOES lose them money, so stop complaining, watch the episodes as they come out, download it or stop complaining
- This contains spoilers so stop reading if you haven't watched the last ep, but when Knightmon forced Xros'd with Bagaramon, how was Bagarmon able to take control again, and why didn't Knightmon have all of his power?
- Because of Yuu. That's why DarkKnightmon was keeping him in that pod, to power up the Darkness Loader allowing him to force a Xros even with his extremely powerful brother. Once Yuu was broken out, the power was gone, so Bagramon was able to seize control again. As for the power, I don't remember whether it was just that DarkKnightmon didn't have what it took to control Bagramon's power, or if Yuu's freedom was the cause of that. Pretty sure they explain the whole thing in the episode, though.
- So, Bagramon was revealed to be the one who brought Kiriha to the Digital World and gave him a Xros Loader, expecting he would work for him. However, during the majority of the series he never tried to actually recruit him in any way. He did the opposite, letting him free for antagonizing his army and often foil his plans. By the time Gravimon tried a first approximation he had already known and allied with Taiki many times. Bagramon not only wasted a powerful ally but also gave him the chance to ally with his enemies.
- Gravimon was bluffing?
- He wasn't, Bagramon confirms it in a later episode that he did in fact bring over Kiriha to the Digital World after seeing Dark Knightmon do the same with Yuu. However, at the same time he never gives a reason for why he didn't recruit him the instant he brought him over, so ultimately it begs the question why he even bothered to bring over a pawn that he had no intention of using.
- Gravimon was bluffing?