Fate of the Jedi/YMMV

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • Alternate Character Interpretation: Troy Denning's treatment of Luke Skywalker has been controversial. It was less noticible in his previous books but still present. Basically, Luke is a scheming Chessmaster and Magnificent Bastard who plays the Sith against one another while plotting schemes within schemes. Yes… Luke Skywalker. Although, in Conviction, written by a different author, Luke continues to behave this way, leading Vestara to saying that he's Not So Different via a Shut Up, Kirk moment.
    • Is Saba actually a good heroine or a crazed Knight Templar who murdered the rightful Grand Master?
      • Or evil and the Jedi don't even know they've turned Sith?
    • Ditto, Kenth Hamner is either a boot-licking toady or a man caught between two extremes.
  • Complete Monster: The Mandalorian merc Belok Rhal is shown to be this. First he executes an unarmed Jedi apprentice in cold blood, then he brutally puts down a peaceful protest my gunning down the protesters, and then shoots and kills a reporter recording the entire thing, all without a second thought.
    • Abeloth was even worse. She infected several of the Jedi with Force Psychosis, causing a huge hysteria that made the Jedi's already problematic relations with the New Republic even worse than usual, and she was apparently an involving factor in regards to Jacen Solo turning to the Dark Side.
    • Let's put it this way: If even the Sith, who are definitely not good guys, are (at least initially) wanting to forge an alliance with the Jedi, their mortal enemies, just to defeat Abeloth, and in one case, a Sith blatantly refusing to join Abeloth after learning about the full extent of Abeloth's horrific nature from her, she definitely qualifies as a Complete Monster.
  • Creator's Pet: Saba Sebatyne for Troy Denning. Since the Dark Nest Trilogy Saba when written by Denning, has become an increasingly important character, culminating with her leading the rebellion against Grand Master Kenth Hamner and replacing him after the latter's death in the face of arguably more suited characters like Kyle Katarn or Kyp Durron.
    • One could argue that Saba needed to be the one due to public scrutiny. Kyle Katarn and Kyp Durron had both previously turned to the Dark Side, and in fact, Corran Horn turned down the post because he knew that he was too angry.
  • Crowning Moment of Awesome: Of all people, C-3PO gets one by finally showing off his much-vaunted skills as an interpreter… by providing a rough Basic-Keshiri dictionary without having come into contact with the language before. Think about this for a second: without having any idea of syntax or grammar, Threepio cracks a language. From a recording.
    • Though this isn't the first time he's done that: he cracked the Vong language in New Jedi Order too.
    • In the opening of Apocalypse, the Jedi manage to simultaneously assassinate hundreds of high ranking Sith with a number of ingenious and perfectly timed plots.
    • Saba defeating an Abeloth avatar in hand to hand combat by biting its head off.
  • Crowning Moment of Funny: In Backlash, Ben starts to go off on an Inner Monologue about how Jacen, the Nightsisters, and the Sith only value their own needs, only to have Vestara interrupt him mid-thought to offer him water and exchange snark.
    • Han Solo, flamethrower. Enough said.
  • Crowning Moment of Heartwarming: In Allies, Dorvan makes a habit of eating lunch with Raynar Thul on the steps on the Jedi Temple. During the Mandalorian siege on the Temple, Dorvan realizes Thul will still come out due to his eccentricity and he does everything in his power to save him, from lying about having authorization from Daala to risking his life and literally running onto the steps of the Temple to keep the Mandalorians from firing.
    • In Outcast, the large amount of people who showed up at the Jedi Temple as Luke was exiled, showing that despite the rising anti-Jedi sentiment, there will always be people who appreciate one of the greatest heroes in the Galaxy.
    • Your Milage May definitely Vary for the one between Ben and Vestara in Ascension, because it takes place immediately after Domestic Abuse. Abuse that's implications are neither addressed nor reconciled.
      • While he definitely should not have used physical force to read her letters, once the "Force" became involved he may be justified in responding in kind. This is afterall a woman who just killed a much more experienced swordsman in combat, uses lightning on a regular basis, and has been through the face heel revolving door.
  • Deadpan Snarker: Threepio, after several decades of exposure to Han Solo. Literal-Minded? Or high octane snark? The dialogue can frequently be read either way.

During our association, Captain Solo's sanity has been questioned an average of three times per month. By the psychiatric care standards of many conformist societies, that fact alone would qualify him for a cell in the Asylum Block. (Omen)

    • Allana also seems to have picked up some of Han's snarking ability, and manages to combine it with Leia's wit.
    • Luke and Ben will at times snark at each other, especially in Aaron Allston's books.
    • Jaina programmed her ship's astromech to be like this:

Jaina: What is it doing?
Rowdy: RUNNING AWAY BECAUSE IT IS SO OBVIOUSLY OUTMATCHED PERHAPS.

I am Vestara Khai, daughter of a proud heritage. I have what is necessary to command the dark side and bend it to my will. To use it for the good of the Tribe, and the People.

  • Draco in Leather Pants: Ben/Vestara shippers obviously hope for this in Vestara and to some, most, if not the entire, Lost Tribe of the Sith. In the meantime, Ascension's cover depicts Ben and Vestara back to back, lightsabers raised in unison…
    • Ben leather pantses Vestara, and Vestara inverts it, taking a clearly heroic character (Ben) and trying to imagine him as a villain (specifically as her husband and the greatest Sith ever).
      • Actually, Vestara subverts it. She's been taught to regard Sith as heroes and Jedi as villains, so technically she's playing it straight by imagining her enemy as a hero. But the audience have pre-conceived notions on who is a hero and who is a villain, so portraying this natural tendency in a teenage girl on the other side quite effectively highlights how Not So Different she is from Ben.

"Ben, I can see why ship was drawn to you. There's the making of a fine Sith in you, you know that?"
"Let us not devolve into insults."
(Vestara throws a fruit at him)

  • Fan-Preferred Couple: The Ben/Vestara ship seem to be an incredibly popular one, especially once they finally meet each other.
  • Fridge Brilliance: How in the name of the sweet Maker did Daala end up in charge of the Galactic Alliance? Well, it turns out that she has a sexual relationship (at least) with a Bothan admiral named Bwua'tu. She came to be in charge through his backing! It makes so much sense, because she got into some positions of power in the Empire not through skill, but through a sexual relationship with Alderaan-killer Tarkin. She obviously figured that if it worked for her once, then she can do it again.
  • Fridge Logic: After Daala gets removed from her post via a coup, Wynn has a conversation with Saba. Wynn says that Daala is "honorable". Daala, who sent Mandalorians to bully the Jedi and other people, and did not even try to moderate their monstrous behaviour or punish them for it. Daala, who was cracking under pressure and was having hissy fits over the slightest mistakes. Wynn happens to have been a member of the New Republic, and he ought to have heard about Daala's actions with committing genocide. He had even seen Daala's behaviour for himself. Where does he come off saying that she is honorable?
    • Possibly because he had the impression that despite all of her faults, Daala was doing what she felt was best for the galaxy.
  • He's Just Hiding: Inverted. Several fans are speculating due to the Legacy era occuring afterwards that Luke Skywalker might end up dying in this one (as Legacy has him appearing as a Force Ghost).
  • Ho Yay: Raynar and Dorvan are either this or rather close Heterosexual Life Partners.
  • Idiot Ball: The Jedi Council. Dear God, the Jedi Council. Daala pissing you off? Just coup the bitch! After all, that worked out SO WELL for the rest of the galaxy the LAST time. And while we're at it, why not put the Barabel warrior lady in charge? How hard could the job be?
    • While most of this is true, you have to look at what they had to act against. Daala specifically said that she was going to crush the Jedi, and insisted on massacring slave rebellions outside of her nation.
    • In Ascension, Luke and the Jedi Order are holding an Idiot Ball of epic proportions when it comes to strategy. First of all, they look for Abeloth in all kinds of places except for the most obvious ones, which leads to them falling in more than a few traps. Then let's not talk about Luke's decision to allow the Sith to gain a foothold on Coruscant so that the Jedi can be free to chase after Abeloth… A plan that ends up allowing Abeloth to take control of Coruscant, the Senate, and by extension, the whole Galactic Alliance. To add to the Face Palm fuel: the Jedi still don't notice anything wrong when that happens, despite Abeloth's lack of subtlety.
  • Lawful Stupid: Kenth Hamner's preference for diplomatic and political solutions for the Jedi Temple's woes and stubborn refusal to sanction any other course of action is one of the many factors that turns the Jedi Council against him
  • Leeroy Jenkins: The rest of the Council outside of Hamner seem think a diplomatic solution with Daala is impossible and only open rebellion will lead to anything. The fact this is exactly how Daala claimed the Jedi would operate without control (i.e. no respect for laws or rules which didn't suit them) turns this into a What the Hell, Hero? moment.
  • Moral Event Horizon:
    • In Allies, the Mandalorians ruthlessly shoot down an unarmed Jedi girl who was only trying to negotiate with them.
    • In Vortex, they slaughter unarmed semi-sentients protesting against slavery.
    • In Ascension, Vestara callously sacrifices Natua in order to save Ben.
  • Paranoia Fuel: An in-'verse example, as in, Which Jedi is going to flip out next?
    • Also the effect of Force Psychosis: everyone becomes a enemy for the victim.
    • You could have droches inside of you and you would never know until it's too late.
  • Squick: Try imagining Taalon, who is slowly turning into an Eldritch Abomination, suckling on one of Abeloth's tentacles like a puppy, because unfortunately for our sanity, that actually happens.
  • Strangled by the Red String: Ben and Vestara in Allies.
  • Straw Man Has a Point: Daala's fears about Jedi entitlement take on a new light after the Order's decision to enact a coup in the face of other potential options to gain their rights and curtail her excess such as using mounting public disapproval and political scandals to easily impeach her.
  • Tear Jerker: Niathal's suicide note is very sad. So are her reasons for this act.
    • Kani's death. Granted, she was never near the status of a main character, but still…
  • Unfortunate Implications: Remember folks, if you want your girlfriend to be loyal to you, you should hit her, then read her private effects while she begs you not to… You'll be rewarded with your First Kiss for sure!
    • Slave riots are the villains!
    • Redemption's for love interests only!
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Many fans, including the ones who hated Hamner's pretentious guts, agree that misguided as his actions were, he went out like a badass.
    • And some will argue that he was right. The other Jedi masters (anyone not on the council has been essentially ignored) respond to him by throwing temper tantrums, undercutting his authority at every turn, sneering at any Jedi that dares to associate with him (Kani, anyone?), and generally acting like petulant children who don't like their new babysitter. Why? Because he's the only damn Jedi who who has a concept of duty! Kenth is very much a strawman with a point.
  • The Scrappy: In-Universe, Kenth Hamner is hated by all the other Jedi. And Han.
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