Forum:Wiki Updates

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Conversion of LiquidThreads to Flow (global)

Summary by Derivative

Conversion done.

John (talkcontribs)

Hi everyone,

This is a notice that either today or tomorrow, I intend to start a conversion of *all* LiquidThread talk pages to Flow boards. LiquidThreads is a now unmaintained extension with all support being dropped by anyone who worked on the original versions of the extension (inc. the never fully released version 3). This was kept on Miraheze solely for the purpose of supporting the needs of AllTheTropes wiki with all new requests by other wikis being declined for technical reasons.

A conversion never happened for two reasons:

  • An official conversion script wasn't released when Orain died,
  • There were database integrity issues resulting is misattribution of edits (in the awkward way LQT stores author names).

Since the creation and import to Miraheze, an official script was released and over the past few weeks I've been putting special pressure and work into resolving the database integrity issues. As work carries on for general edits and logging (potentially by Southparkfan), the LQT tables were handled by Vorticity.

A selection of pages have already been converted for testing and these include: Talk:Main Page, All The Tropes talk:Bureaucrats, Talk:Color Motif, Talk:The Ruffling of Fur and Feathers and, Talk:Weirdest Inbound Link of the Day.

A site notice message will go up when the conversion begins. There is expected to be no interference with editing and the conversion shouldn't take long.

Any questions, reply here or contact myself.


GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Awesome, look forward to it.

John (talkcontribs)

Look no further! Probably because you saw this before you saw this message but, yeah. Look no further (who knows what dark monsters lie beyond).

John (talkcontribs)

This is now done. Please enjoy the new interface instead of the ridden of hell-ish one before.

Labster (talkcontribs)

And enjoy the new bugs!

A comment about the 1.26 upgrade

Southparkfan (talkcontribs)

Hi there,

The MediaWiki 1.26 upgrade that was performed today has succeeded, but it took another hour longer for All The Tropes than expected (there already was a scheduled maintenance window of two hours, but ATT was read-only for three hours instead).

I'm sorry for that. When running update.php (that's a script we use for updating the database so it will work with extension/MediaWiki changes), I noticed it (likely, I couldn't find out whether it did or not) ran populateLogUsertext.php (that 'fixes' username log entries in Special:Log). Running populateLogUsertext.php could have a more or less catastrophic effect to Special:Log entries that were made before the move to Miraheze, with as result completely inaccurate log entries that could have been unrecoverable.

Since I didn't want to take any risk, I decided to restore a part of the backup we made just before updating MediaWiki. I know it's a pity the wiki was read-only for another hour, but I hope you understand why I chose for it.

-- Southparkfan, Miraheze System Administrator.

Recent downtime

Southparkfan (talkcontribs)

Hello, as most of you might have experienced, All The Tropes (well Orain) has barely been accessible for over the past few days. Our loadbalancer (prod10) which spreads the traffic among the three MediaWiki servers we have, stopped serving users who do not use IPv6. The cause is unknown, but we suspect a DDoS (around the time prod10 started to have issues, an inbound DDoS (or something similiar) hit prod10). We suspect that DigitalOcean after that cut off prod10, which resulted into downtime. FastLizard4 (one of the sysadmins) and me discussed how to get Orain back up, and after a while, All The Tropes was brought back online at ~07:00 AM (UTC+0) today, and all Orain wikis were confirmed online at ~10:45 AM (UTC+0) today.

Some of the current traffic is still routed through prod10, I don't know why, but since no one told me they still are having issues with accessing Orain, I won't really look into that. I'll keep you updated as necessary. Sorry for the inconvenience, and thank you for the patience. A report is available on Meta.

On behalf of the Orain Staff,

Chemtrail Morgellons (talkcontribs)

It's still having a lot of problems. Orain is up about 4 hours a day on IPv6 and on IPv4 maybe 10 minutes a day. It started Tuesday and still going.

Arcane (talkcontribs)

We're well aware. Orain Staff is currently discussing more drastic measures to remedy the issues, since we recently learned they are more serious than the initial report suggested.

Southparkfan (talkcontribs)

Orain unexpectedly still had nullrouting (by DigitalOcean) issues, because we are still under fire of DDoS attacks. Since today the situation has more or less stabilized very much compared to the last three days, and with some very hard work we've fixed most of the issues affecting the public.

I don't expect any major interruptions again, but I can't guarantee that. We will keep you updated as necessary.

I am sorry for what happened these last few days, but we try to do what we can.

Tennessean (talkcontribs)

So, has anyone tried to see where the DDoS attacks are coming from? I hope that it's just something being done at random, as opposed to a specific attack on Orain or any of the wikis that it hosts.

Arcane (talkcontribs)

That matter is still under investigation, though it seems to have been an attack on Orain in general.

Chemtrail Morgellons (talkcontribs)

Most sites just get Cloudflare for it. People say it's cheap. There's different but most people sound like they are either getting the $20/month plan or even the free plan. Cloudflare says the free plan has "Basic DDoS protection". I personally suspect people just get the free plan. In fact, I've seen cheap, rarely visited websites with it and I'm certain they're on the free plan because hosting for those sites is really cheap with so little traffic. The only thing with Cloudflare is there's different control panel settings and sometimes people leave it on setting so all visitors from Tor and proxies have to enter a CAPTCHA before viewing each page.

Southparkfan (talkcontribs)

CloudFlare is an option, but moving over to CloudFlare comes also with a price (wildcard proxy), *many* infrastructure changes, and no one is sure if the hard work is worth the 'protection'.

Chemtrail Morgellons (talkcontribs)

Orain has always been down an average of 8 hours a day often on. Two weeks ago this went to around 20 hours a day. Cloudflare has a caching system that could keep Orain up all the time.

Arcane (talkcontribs)

We just moved to Cloudflare very recently to prevent this in the future, as we came to the same conclusion.

File caching

Southparkfan (talkcontribs)


In order to improve the performance on All The Tropes I've enabled file caching here. The first visitor of a page will trigger a function in MediaWiki which not only renders the HTML page, but saves it to a hard disk too (a place which gets mounted on all MediaWiki servers - so all MediaWiki servers share the same cache) as an HTML. When a user requests the Orain servers to render a page, it just will send the content of the HTML file. This should lead into noticeable performance improvements.

I'm not sure if it works, but the cache can be purged like this, and on each 3rd hour of the day, a script will be rebuilding the full cache. While I don't expect any (major) issues, please do not hesitate to contact me if you encounter any problems, and you suspect that those are caused by the new file caching feature. Regards, Southparkfan (Orain sysadmin)

We now have the search engine redirect to Google's search results

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Since the in house search engine is broken and the cost of the resources we would need for purely in house search is very prohibitive, our search engine uses Google's search results, which, while not the most updated, definitely is better than nothing and has no timeout problems.

If a pure in house solution becomes feasible, we will move to that.

Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but the WikiEditor smiley insert gadget has been removed and disabled due to ongoing issues, plan to replace this with a more stable extension in the future.

Happy belated Christmas everyone

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Here's some gifts to make your next year of troping even more wonderful:

  • Recent Changes Log Filter - For everyone annoyed when spammers try to register in drove and their user creation stuff clogs up recent changes, this add an option to RC to hide all user creation logs to keep things somewhat cleaner in RC.
  • PageTriage - Your new and improved New Page Patrol (check the link of the same name on the sidebar). Allows anyone to see all new pages in the main and user namespaces, great for sussing out spam or new pages that need help. Somewhat Wikipedia specific (the help pages point to theirs), but the filters will work just fine for ATT in figuring out what new pages need attention.
  • EmbedVideo - Due to issues reported with the Widgets Youtube embedding, this is an alternative video embedding extension, with support for over twenty different video services. Check the page for the extension for better instructions.
  • MultiUpload - This extension allows for the uploading of multiple files at once, perfect for speeding up uploading tasks.

Please report any issues with these extensions (not already mentioned on the extension pages) to the Tech Wishlists and Bug Reports forum.

Also, happy New Year and even happier troping everyone. :)

QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

Attempted to implement it in Turns Red. No good.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

I just enabled it. Give the server a few hours. If it still doesn't work, I'll look into it.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

The videos are fixed. Turns out we had permissions settings for the server set to disallow youtube embeds, John modified it so they'll work.

This should fix the Widgets version of embedding as well.

QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

If you see John, tell him thanks for me.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

FYI, if you need further exceptions added, let me know. I just modified our nginx setup to allow dailymotion videos, submit further needed exception to the Tech Wishlists and Bug Reports forum.

QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

Wow, I already got the clip deleted from YouTube.

YouTube really is run by chicken-shits. Can't post a 1:05 clip of a movie everyone and their grandmother has already seen, no sir.

QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

Well YouTube works just fine, but DailyMotion embedding still doesn't seem to work. Honestly, if it's at all possible, I would rather use DailyMotion to upload videos for All The Tropes, since YouTube is much more capricious in its takedowns.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

John's fiddling with the nginx setting right now, so I'll have to get him to re add my changes tomorrow (he had to remove them during his own tinkering).

In the meantime, just comment out the video's you wnt from DM, and I'll get back to you when it's enabled.

We now have Media Viewer and the Collection extension for making books!

GethN7 (talkcontribs)
  • Media Viewer is an opt in Beta Feature (enable it in the beta tab of your preferences) that allows for seeing thumbnailed images in full view via a lightbox without leaving the page.
  • Collection is an extension for making a collection of pages for printing or rendering into PDF format. Perfect for on the go reading in paper format or via a mobile device. Check the Print/Export section of the sidebar to use this feature.
    • Don't use the "Download As PDF" option, this seems to have issues. The "Create a Book" feature is fine. It will start on a random page, but you can add whatever pages you want for your book, and help documentation for this has been imported for further instructions.
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Collection looks very nifty, but the sidebar links appear to be hardcoded to go to Only Sane Man no matter what page you start on.

Arcane (talkcontribs)

That is very odd. Going to look into this.

TBeholder (talkcontribs)

Unfortunately, all it does now is lets QuestionableSanity remove all and any illustrations in favour of youtube embeds.

I simply block this crap as just another google tracking useless to me.

Do those embeds actually achieve anything that couldn't be done via link to their origin where they can be played properly?

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Actually, the Widget extension is what allows for Youtube embedding, and if you wish to block it, feel free.

As for your disagreements with Questionable Sanity, I understand your concerns, but you should speak with them concerning this instead of complaining here.

I agree Youtube embeds should not completely replace all illustrations, but if it does a better job of illustrating a trope, I don't see the issue.

We now have the Widgets extension for adding embedded audio and video!

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

We now have the Widgets extension for embedding audio and video.

See this page for how to embed Youtube videos.

Additional Widgets for other services may be requested in our Tech Wishlist forum.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

I take it a straight audio player is still in the queue? Regardless, this is very cool.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

At present time, a completely in wiki media playing option is off the table for now due to server resource limits, but will be reconsidered when that is no longer a concern.

TBeholder (talkcontribs)

Some stuff have low obvious usefulness, while having obvious misuses. Such as pointlessly enthusiastic sticking it everywhere just because it's available (which is what Questionable Sanity seems to be doing now, but it's a fairly common problem).

(answered to wrong thread the first time - my bad)
> I agree Youtube embeds should not completely replace all illustrations, but if it does a better job of illustrating a trope, I don't see the issue.

It cannot do a better - or even equal - job of illustrating a page. Because an embedded video must have either:

  1. Irrelevant or badly visible preview picture (which is worse than a relevant static pic).
  2. Preview picture which on its own would be good as a static pic. Since it also got overlay with controls glued on top and borders around, it's not as good nor as compact as a static pic with link (the user have to click on either) would be.
  3. Autostart (gah!).

In addition, it may be of the wrong size either for page layout or for playing, which aren't always the same - and when not, it's a no-win Morton's Fork. Not necessarily, but since YouTube provides different resolutions, this pitfall will be open more often than not.

Also, even the preview pic is visible at all only if the user loads YouTube automatically without question. Which practically means: "turn Google tracking on, or don't have illustrations on this wiki". Is this the desirable result?

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Hmm, excellent points. If the trope in question could illustrated just as well with an animated gif (preferably below 512KB in size) or a static image, that is preferred. As a compromise, all videos that are not entirely unsuitable and are still relevant can be moved to the Image Links page. However, if the linked video is agreed by consensus to illustrate the page the best, it stays.

If need be, discuss these items on the discussion pages or page image forum if you feel they need replaced, and I'll be happy to review the arguments of all sides in the event of a dispute, and a decision will be made on consensus of all parties involved.

We have an actual smiley toolbar and rules on linking audio/video files.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

We have added two new features to ATT:

  • Smiley Emoticons - You can now add actual smiley emoticons to talk threads and forum posts (may take awhile for this option to show up due to caching for some), you should see a smiley face on the Advanced section of the WikiEditor you can click on to see some insertable emoticons. We have this feature thanks to the hard work of Perhelion.
  • If direct links are made to audio/video files, they can be played in the browser as audio/visual examples of tropes. Please label all links appropriately for those who don't wish to be forced to autoplay them.
QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

I want to make this the video for Greed. How would I do it?

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Our Youtube direct linking extension is kinda broken right now, so you'll have to make a direct link to the file.

Currently looking for an alternative, though.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

We now have the Widgets extension, see that post for details on embedding a video.

QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

Awesome. I made a template to allow right-aligned videos so tropers don't have to fumble around with

Got some Beta Features working

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

We had to disable them on the old server setup due to them causing severe interface issues, but that has been been addressed and they now work fine.

We have added the following:

  • Hovercards (hover over a link to see a brief description)
  • Compact User Bar - (Compacts the user bar into a nice looking compact menu)

Feel free to try them out by changing your user preferences or going to the "Beta" menu on the user bar, and let us know if you have any issues in the Tech Wishlist and Bug Reports forum.