Genius: The Transgression/WMG

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


Eureka is a town full of Geniuses

The purpose of the town is to keep them isolated from Mere Mortals who could be harmed by their Wonders, or mess them up.

  • And since they apparently take place in the same universe, many Artifacts are Orphans.
    • In addition, Claudia is a Klagen, having broken through from her brother's disappearnce, while H.G. Wells is either a Grimm or a Neid.

The Discworld has Geniuses, and of a very unique kind at that.

Okay, so hear me out. There's, as you either know or will now find out, a clan on the Discworld called Igors, who traditionally serve people who would be (but not necessarily are) nobility in Uberwald: vampires, werewolves, and mad scientists. The Discworld's mad scientists work very similarly to Geniuses, in so far as they regularly create things irreconcilable with the universe's internal workings (explained in-universe as a contradiction native to the system, but we all know better, don't we?), a gradual slip into insanity that is closely tied to the creation process, and invariable failure of their creations. But this is not the interesting part. These are just normal, run-of-the-mill lonesome Geniuses.

The interesting part are the Igors. They serve these Geniuses (and many others) and in fact do most of the actual mechanical work for the more out-of-touch ones, yet they are obviously not Beholden, as evidenced by their forming a cohesive clan which commands loyalty from them overriding that to their masters, and them being sane enough never to be there when the Genius finally loses it completely and the inevitable Torches and Pitchforks wielding mob arrives. They also have their own weird branch of science/philosophy based on surgery and primitive genetic theories that builds on a common base but varies from Igor to Igor.

So I propose that the Igors are a whole clan of Geniuses, most likely Staunen Progenitors, and almost certainly Unmada, who have found a way to cheat Havoc by somehow essentially creating a universe-wide, self-sustaining bardo for themselves that actually managed to replace their original universe. They also retained enough sanity to be able to hide their Inspiration and actually convince other, much more dangerous Geniuses that they are Beholden to them to further their own goals. Whenever a Discworld scientist has a Breakthrough, there will be an Igor there to help them with their project and generally be their Butt Monkey, but at the end, the "marthter" invariably faces the mob alone, and the Igor gets to make off with the most promising body parts.

  • To explain more clearly: while the Igor clan is numerous, it's not omnipresent, so their combined Unmada Fields can't reshape the thoughts of the entirety of the Disc. But they are strong enough to cause a significant amount of the Discworld's non-Genius population to believe in their "science", which then invariably gets disproved. This all happened in the far past of the Disc and the resulting Maniac Storm created the bardo, which fed from the Mania of the Igors and somehow managed to replace the original Disc.
    • I'm not familiar with the source material for Mage, so I'll just make this as a tentative suggestion- maybe the combination of Bardo and the reality-warping effect of lots and lots of people believing the world was a disc on the back of a turtle replaced an ordinary spherical planet with the Disc? From that point on, consensus-reality fits with part of the Igor-Mania reality.
      • Consensus-reality isn't an aspect of this Mage. Genius isn't an oWoD game.

Willie Wonka is a Genius.

He has a special, higher than ordinarily possible, version of Beholden and Production Line that allows him to create huge amounts of wonders in Pill Form, allowing the strange effects. Pill Form prevent havok unless directly intefered with, eating it destroys it before it can be properly messed with. He is a rogue Staunen, but has avoided loosing too much Obligation and is not an Unmada.

Loompaland is a Bardo of all of the deepest darkest Africa stuff that got disproved once we had explored it properly.

His father from the 2005 film is one too.

  • Automata 5: Factories capable of producing Wonders. The prosecution rests.
    • Also, maybe he's an Artificer? He doesn't seem to want much more than simply making the stuff...

Haruhi Suzumiya is a Staunen Unmada.

She warps reality around her, she regularly interacts with entities she may have inadvertently created, and she has a minion who, shortly after meeting her, found that her worldview was correct and now regularly handles all manner of thankless tasks for her for little discernible reason. She's looking for something fantastic, she's loathe to admit she could be wrong, and then there's the matter of that weird emblem…

Ethan is a Genius

This was brought up in the Ctrl+Alt+Del WMG. His ability to build impressive stuff while being completely out of touch with reality and constantly endangering the people around him without them abandoning them for their own sake or committing him...

  • So, does this mean Zeke and what's-her-name are going to be sprouting some fangs and draining the pseudo-knowledge of the innocent in a couple weeks?
    • Zeke already had Havoc turn him into Bender.

The reason for all the horribly, horribly inaccurate entries in the Pokedex is very simple:

Pokemon are Manes and the researchers are all Geniuses or Beholden.

Batman is a Genius

Bruce Wayne is rogue Grimm with Navigator-like tendencies who catalyzed after his parent's deaths. The only reason the Bat-family can stand him is because they're all either Beholden (like Alfred) or Geniuses themselves. Jason Todd is/was almost certainly a Beholden with a morality difference from Batman.

  • The Joker is most likely an Illuminated. Possibly either Grimm or Neid.
    • Definitely Neid; getting your skin bleached in a freak accident (or getting a Glaswegian Grin) doesn't exactly lend itself to rage about the state of the world.
      • To my eyes, the Joker could even be a really, really twisted Staunen. He does it because he loves watching people's reactions...
        • Except that Catalysts concern themselves with a Genius's Breakthrough -- falling in acid (or other physical trauma) doesn't exactly scream "Curious" to me. And just look at how he reacts in Return of the Joker; he gets downright furious when subjected to Terry's epic mockery. Low Composure and buried-mind technology fit fairly well into the Neid mold.
          • I agree that the acid bath version definitely doesn't suit Staunen, and I'm not familiar with all the versions- your points make a lot of sense.
          • The Joker is the definition of a multiple choice past. He could be a Neid, Grimm or Staunen depending on what the ST wanted.
  • Better yet -- the Joker is an Unmada Mane.
    • Wait, do you mean Batman is Unmada and the Joker (and presumably the rest of Batman's Gallery) are his manes? Batman is so screwed up that his manes keep him mad by tormenting him... Because if you do then you are a Genius! (Heaven help you.)
  • I would say that I hate to burst your bubble, but I enjoy the opportunity. I am a Hoffnung. Unlike my more boring compatriots, however, I LIKE watching my toys fiddled with. All the pretty modern art my Wonders make is so inspiring... thEy REallY PuT a SMiLe oN YuoR FACe.

The Wild Wild West is a genuine historical account.

Doctor Loveless is Unmada and a prominent member of The Lemurians and Gordon is a Peerage Staunen who is working to shake The Lemurians' grip on America. I have no idea what James West is, probably not a Beholden though.

  • I'd be willing to bet that he's a Hunter.
  • Probably an early member of Task Force Valkyrie.

Calvin is a Genius, and Hobbes is his most successful Wonder.

Just look at the thing he does. He build time machines, duplicators, transmogrifiers, a spaceship that can go to Mars and back, an intelligence-boosting machine and brings snowmen to life. Hobbes' 'defect' is that he doesn't break when handled, but temporally revers to an inanimate object.

    • Rather, Calvin might be a very strong Unmada. The way he shifts in and out of reality and dislike for things that don't fit his world view are definite proof of it. Hobbes is likely his oldest Mane (and, being a Mane, still untamed), but by far not his only one.

Abe and Aaron are both Geniuses.

Abe is a Staunen. Aaron starts off as his beholden, but he later catalyzes as a Hoffnung.

Doctor Horrible is, of course, a Genius

The film is a documentary-style study of his Breakthrough. His first few devices are obviously pre-Wonders, never working correctly. He catalyzes fully through Neid in the laundromat scene at the end of Act II. The death ray explosion in Act III is because of the Havoc caused by Captain Hammer handling it. His state at the very end is probably that of a low-Obligation unmada lonesome.

  • If the Evil League of Evil is not a Lemurian group then I don't know what it is. Bad Horse is obviously an Inspired Mane. Captain Hammer could well be a Navigator. Being a jerk does not preclude membership after all.
    • Captain Hammer is obviously a Clockstopper. His views on science and how the ray guns react around him support this.
  • His rants about how the world sucks and he would do better fit with a Hoffnung, maybe he just gained some XP (which he put into Inspiration) and lost a lot of Obligation, and failed an Unmada check of course.
    • He drives to invent to show off to Penny, and thinks of social change as an AFTERTHOUGHT to showing the world he's right. I think Neid is a closer fit.

Zion is a bardo

And all the people who think they're free are Unmada or Beholden; the Agents are Manes. He doesn't know it, but Morpheus is taking real people into what's effectively an imaginary world, spawned from people realising that the robot uprising is incredibly unlikely to happen, and causing them to either catalyse or become Beholden to him. The technology supports this- lightning guns, hovering ships, apparent breaches of Thermodynamics... Morpheus is a gifted Hoffnung, while Neo is clearly a Staunen:

Whoa.

[Insert superhero/supervillain here] is a Genius.

Any superhero or supervillain with technological/scientific origins or methods may qualify. List 'em if you got 'em, folks.

SCP Foundation operates in a game of Genius, and by extension, takes place in the New World of Darkness.

The Foundation has been doing a fair job of securing orphaned Wonders, although the number of people the the SCPs kill and/or Mind Rape suggests that many of them were exposed to Havok before their discovery. The Class-D personnel are probably mostly Beholden, which explains why they are so expendable. The Agents and most of the Doctors are probably not Geniuses, given that they rarely produce more SCPs (that we know about), but they could be Hunters. Dr. Clef, however, did produce SCP-1023...

For more evidence that this is the WoD, look no further than the (former) SCP-083, a Vampire. SCP-073 may also be a Promethean. Not to mention that The World Is Always Doomed if the Foundation ever let certain subjects escape.

  • That means most living SCPs would be Manes, yes?
    • The Reality-warpers are obviously Unmada, but other than that, most likely. With a few exceptions for higher-level AI in a few cases.
  • Add "Anything made with Epikrato 5" to the list of Things Doctor Bright Is Not Allowed To Touch.
  • Kondraki, and Kain Pathos Crow are geniuses as well. 'Draki made SCP-515, and Crow made his Eggwalker and an entirely new being, whom he uses as an assistant.
  • Clef is, going off his own words following the "Dreamer" termination, a very powerful Mage (most likely Acanthus, given his mastery of the Fate Arcanum; he does know Counterspell Prime, though.) who Awakened young.
  • The events of the Theli Crisis make Fish a Genius with at least Apokalypsi 1/Automata 4/Epikrato 3/Skafoi 5, and absolutely no problem with experimenting on his own daughter (maybe a Progenitor?).
  • The Church of the Broken God and Are We Cool Yet? probably qualify as well.

Caractacus Potts is a Lonesome Hoffnung or Staunen

His journeys in his wonder are to a wide range of Bardos but he remains unaware of his nature the whole time. The original novel makes him more clearly Hoffnung and more likely to be a rogue than a lonesome.

Eywa is either a Progenitor or the crowning achievement of one.

The entire ecosystem of Pandora is essentially a biological computer network, with Eywa being the composite of the mind/soul of every living thing that has ever been a part of it, as well as being self-aware in her own right; Gaia theory coupled with the Internet. This meshes so well with the aesthetics and transhumanist philosophies of the Progenitors (who, incidentally, are also the Geniuses with the fewest compunctions against altering themselves in their experiments) that it's hard not to see some kind of correlation. As for how that Genius got to Pandora long enough ago that humans in the present can't tell the difference between their manipulations and natural development...One word: Skafoi.

  • Dr. Lovecraft, the scientist who developed the pseudo-telepathic process for controlling avatars, is described as being a little unhinged, not to mention all the human and animal rights abuses he committed in his experiments.

Dexter is a Genius

My guess is a Neid Artificer or Atomist. Dee Dee would be a Clockstopper.

  • Dee Dee isn't spiteful enough to be a Clockstopper.

Jimmy Neutron is a Genius

It says as much in the title of the show. Jimmy creates stuff that kicks the laws of physics in the nuts and has a tendency to go very, VERY wrong, has people who do pretty much whatever he asks without question regardless of the danger... Yeah. As for what TYPE of genius he is, Jimmy is likely a rogue Hoffnung or Staunen Artificer Paragon of abnormal skill for someone without an association.

  • If built using the game's rules, Jimmy must have gained a massive amount of experience points at some time, if the rank 5 stuff he uses almost casually (using a time machine to settle an argument in history class, a portable resurrection device, etc.) is any indication. Must have been all of those movies he starred in- being the hero of a movie is worth more XP than a normal episode, right?

The Dollhouse is run by the Schollastics

OK, making cash is a valuable thing, particularly when the Lemurians hold the purse strings, but The Doll Houses are a genuinely amazing opportunity to examine human behaviour and interactions, uncontaminated by social structures and cultural biases. As such it is one of the few Projects that allow genuine Science to be happening. Most of the humans involved are not, infact, beholden. The actives are not because their minds are removed before they can become such and they will become normal humans again after their time is over. Likewise the handlers are never in contact with the actual mad science stuff and as such avoid becoming Beholden.

Topher Brink is a Staunen working on the project and Adelle DeWitt is a Beholden working for the Genius behind the project.

Bardos of Note

Everyone,and I mean EVERYONE, in Warhammer 40,000 is a genius.

I mean, most of the tech in 40k is just impossible. So, somehow, everything in the entire universe just got exposed to some sort of wonder, and thus, caused them all to turn into geniuses. The main problem is what happened to everyone else in the World Of Darkness universe/40k universe, like the vampires, werewolves, changlings... Hey...Wait. Oh shit, I think I just found out what the warp is.... IT'S FREAKING ARCADIA!

    • Sanguinus was embraced while in the Warp/Arcadia, so the Vampires somehow got there, Chaos Space Marines could probably count as Changelings by now!
  • As for the "some sort of wonder" part, I'm thinking that when the God-Emperor of Mankind took over, he used his influence to forcibly convert everyone into either geniuses or beholden.

Look Around You is an introductory training program for mad scientists

  • And not a science-comedy programme as most people think.

Many Web Comics have several Geniuses

  • A Miracle of Science: Gave us the term Science-Related Memetic Disorder, Mars either really is sane and just really smart due to the gestalt or is an Unmada, if not for the fact that it seems to actually care about people it could be an Illuminated with millions of host bodies.
    • Though wonders are frequently reverse-engineered and mass-produced, such as the orbital cannons.
  • Girl Genius: Everyone is a Genius, Beholden, or Wonder, there's even a couple inspired wonders (the prime Dingbots, Baron Wulfenbach).
    • Some have even speculated that it is the original timeline.
  • Narbonic: Dave might be a Beholden who catalyzed. Helen is an old-style Progenitor (as is her mother), Lupin Madblood is a automata specialist, etc.
  • Schlock Mercenary: Kevyn specializes in skafoi and automata, and took up katastrofi as a hobby. Elf might have dots in prostasia and apokalypsi. Para Ventura is exclusively an automata specialist.
  • Sluggy Freelance: Riff prefers katastrofi but he obviously knows a lot of skafoi and dabbles in automata and prostasia.
  • Freefall: Dr Bowman, created sapient red wolves and then unleashed them on the world. Florence, one of said wolves, restored a spaceship with holes in it in less than a week with no budget, was assigned to a research station two systems away to work on an FTL project (in a world where interstellar travel is anything but routine), tends to alter the personalities of those around her, wants to dissassemble the sun (if only it wasn't one of her sanest moments). Dvorak, robot made using Bowman's designs, invented carnivorous waffle irons, replaced another robot's legs with a sled pulled by said irons with nuclear jet packs, is trying to convert Redwoods to nuclear power...
    • Bowman has Automata 5. QED. Yay us. Also, Flo has Exelixi because she fixed stuff Sam had broken.
      • Actually I did see the Freefall WMG page, though I'm not sure Flo is an Artificer (maybe a Navigator or Scholastic). Bowman is probably a Hoffnung Progenitor and Dvorak seems to be a Staunen Artificer.
      • If Sam is a Walking Techbane it's probably because in most of the future timelines mere mortals stop causing havoc and wonders become commonplace, Sam is from a 19th-century level world so he would cause havoc when handling future human technology.
    • Hypothesis: Bowman's creations were made at Automata 4 (except the factories which have to be rank 5) and were immediately orphaned, neural pruning represents how 10-50 year old orphans go up one rank, one of Florence's mutations caused her to become Inspired and the robots love her because of her mania. And maybe the dream machines are generators that the robots draw their daily mania from.
      • The only alternative is that Jean is a bardo and the robots are manes built by rank 4 factories.
  • Precocious: Those kids might not have broken through yet, but they will.
  • The Whiteboard: Doc and Roger, the only problem is that the others don't act like Mere Mortals (take the wonders in stride, eventually), Geniuses (little if any inspiration), or Beholden (why do you think Swampy ends up stapled to the ceiling so often).
    • Doc's most likely a Grimm Artificer specializing in katastrofi, with some skafoi (such as his truck and those jets), his homemade 'dew and coffee are probably capacitors or generators. Roger is a Staunen as far as I can tell and seems to be working on prostasia and exelixi
  • Umlaut House: The spy guild are most likely Peerage agents who use a lot of integral wonders. Most of the "evil" scientists are unmada but judging from Rick, Peggy, and Saundra it is easier than usual to become "sane" again. And the prevalence of "eye-fi's" (integral apokalypsi) indicate that this is one of those futures where mere mortals don't cause havoc.
    • In addition Rick's gender-bender ray is metaptropi, peggy coils and time portals are skafoi, prosthetics are exelixi, and Ascii is a rank-five automata who became unmada when he turned off his emotions (I think he still is, his Obligation's just a bit higher).
  • The Inexplicable Adventures of Bob: Jean, Molly, Galatea, Dean Martin. Molly and Golly are also automata or manes.
  • Dan and Mab's Furry Adventures: Jyrras accidentally created life at least twice (a magical construct and a robot) and his gadgets have the potential to start a technological revolution. Probably a Hoffnung Progenitor or Artificer, the "fictionalized" version of him in Wildy's "Janus Bond" novel acts more like a Neid.
  • Original Life: Abigail, though given that she's something like six and a lot of her "inventions" use legos it can be hard to tell when she's actually breaking the laws of nature or just imagining it.
    • The "Gaydar" and her alteration of Jeffrey's hormones to make him lose weight seem to be real at least. In the latter case resulting in a good, old-fashioned, rampage.

Sigmund Freud was a Genius

A very high Inspiration one, with a serious Jabir problem.

    • Pretty much immediately Jossed by the corebook itself — there were about three famous people who were Geniuses: Hooke, Tesla, and Leonardo. The fact that we're able to say that Freud was misinterpreted and that he'd gotten several things wrong is kind of a point against his being Inspired.
      • On the other hand, the corebook says that those three were the only confirmed Geniuses; all but Leonardo belonged to a Foundation or Baramin, and so were easily documented. Freud might have been an isolated Genius, perhaps never even knowing what he was. Furthermore, any discredited theories of Freud's don't mean that he couldn't have been a Genius; the core of Inspired existence is that they can create things that shouldn't work, but do. Reality is beside the point. Rather, the fact that Freud got anything right is better evidence that he was a mere mortal.
        • Well, the confirmed ones GOT things right.

Dr Franke-N-Furter was a Genius.

In fact he and his guest where Demi-urges and the party was a convention. So in Short Frank-N-Furter is a prime example of why the Demiurges needed to be taken down.

The Medic is a Genius.

He's described as a Mad Doctor from Germany- possibly a Progenitor who wasn't quite Nazi enough but rather close to Unmada status. The MediGun is his signature Exelixi Wonder and the note that the healing was a side effect of the Gun at first as well as his Syringe Gun (another Wonder) suggests some dots in Katastrofi as well. It's possible that "The Medic" has in fact become his Genius title/name.

Franken Fran is a Genius

I mean, the rest of the medical world's science seems reasonable and realistic. Franken Fran's medical science is on a whole other level, but one that a few other scientists are also on. She's probably a Staunen, and the Professor is likely part of The Reformed Society of Progenitors.

The Terminal's timeline was Girl Genius

I'm not the first to say it but it's worth putting here.

If the Lemurians are to be believed. The Lemurians say that in the previous timeline, geniuses, unfettered by morality or concern for their fellow man, made sport of humanity, tearing the world apart with wars.

Sounds like Girl Genius to me. Evidently things got better at one point, or humanity destroyed itself and that was a net positive for the cosmos. Lets say things got better eventually.

The five Catalysts map to the colors of Magic: The Gathering

  • Hoffnung: white -- order, world domination.
  • Staunen: blue -- curiosity.
  • Neid: black -- extreme cynisism.
  • Grimm: red -- passion, anger, and destructive potential.
  • Klagen: green -- desire to protect.

Randall Munroe is a Hoffnung Atomist Paragon.

Stewie Griffin is a younger than normal Genius

Come on, we're talking about a toddler who built a time machine, a mind-control ray, a death ray, an interdimensional transporter, a shrink ray, a cryogenic freezing chamber (back in the Renaissance), another death ray...

Pinkie Pie is a Genius

Some of her wonders include the flying machine from Griffon the Brush-Off (which suffers from Havoc when Gilda touches it), the Oompah band she used to draw the parasprites away in Swarm of the Century, and her cupcakes - which are normally safe due to being constructed In Pill Form, but get messed up whenever a mere mortal tries to help make them (like Applejack in the infamous Baked Bads scene). Her Pinkie Sense is actually an internalized Apokalypsi wonder (thus, when Twilight tried to use mortal science to figure out how it worked, all the bad stuff it predicted started targeting her, due to Havoc). The reason why she's able to ignore the laws of physics and even the fourth wall? It's her Unmada Field, which causes her to subconsciously warp reality in the area. Her catalyst is almost certainly Staunen; her Breakthrough was triggered when she saw Rainbow Dash's first Sonic Rainboom.

  • In addition her breakdown in "Party of One" was her failing an Unmada check. Her "new friends" were manes, and "Rocky" fell apart when Rainbow Dash touched him due to Havoc.
  • On that note, Fluttershy was on the verge of a Breakthrough during the events in Best Night Ever. The various traps she built were all pre-wonders without enough Mania to actually work. She managed to supress her rising Inspiration by the end of the episode, but for how long? It's only a matter of time before something causes her to have another psychotic break, at which point she'll catalyze into a full-blown genius - probably Klagen. The Stare is also powered by Mania (Epikrato, to be specific), but she can't control when it happens because she's not an actual genius yet.

Wheeljack is a Genius

Being slightly insane and creating crazy inventions that warp reality and go either horribly wrong or right whenever anyone uses them is practically his raison d'être. Normalverse Wheeljack is a Staunen, while Shattered Glass Wheeljack is a Neid unmada.

Lauren Faust is a Progenitor.

That show she created? It's actually based on a pocket bardo she created, populated with Automata-5 ponies. (Pinkie Pie managed to gain enough experience points to catalyze, explaining her abilities.) Lauren herself has a high Obligation and the Science Hero merit (reduced Jabir, social skill bonus), explaining how she hasn't been discovered... that, and passing off your Wonders as part of a fictional universe is the perfect cover.

Cave Johnson was a Genius.

His worldview is textbook Hoffnung. Catalyzing in the mid-20th century meant that he appeared just as Lemuria was falling, and the Peerage missed him in the chaos; because of this, Cave Johnson never had Havoc explained to him, and went about trying to develop and test products for public use, blissfully unaware of the potential for disaster. Caroline was a Beholden, as were most (if not all) Aperture Science employees. Upon Cave's death, the Aperture Science facility became a bardo, overseen by GLaDOS, a catalyzed orphan Rank-5 Automata wonder. As for the portal gun itself- you know when you found the "Skafoi Ray" variable, and sat there for a moment trying to figure out what that would ever apply to? Now you know...

Non-crossover theories

As fun as this is, WMG is getting Flanderized into crack crossovers when this game has much more interesting mysteries.

Clockstoppers maxed out Natural Body prevents thought because...

...clothes count as technology. Pretty advanced technology, actually.

  • My eyes, the Goggles Do Nothing!
  • Natural Body Does Not Work That Way. Hungry Emptiness is the one that makes it near-impossible to think.
    • I think that's intended to mean "Doesn't bear thinking about."
      • It's confusingly worded and it's referring to the wrong Void. How does that make it better?
        • It's not referring to the wrong Void. Just think for a minute- maxed Natural Body destroys all nearby technology. Clothes are technology. Thus, maxed Natural Body makes everyone's clothes fall off. I'd've preferred not to have to go this explicit, but I'm sure that's what he meant. Simple misunderstanding, no?
          • No. Mostly because Natural Body isn't an area of effect. It might make the Clockstopper's clothes disintegrate, but that's a tad less "pass the Brain Bleach" and more "oh god oh god run for your life he's going to KILL YOU." Purify the Wounded Earth is the one that causes technology to fail, and that just means that clothes would offer no meaningful protection. Oh, and that the Clockstopper could disintegrate your clothes with an act of will. Violently. (Further, look at the sample characters; Walking Man has Natural Body 5 and yet his modus operandi involves disguise and personal interaction. People aren't liable to listen to a ranting naked guy. I think we can safely class clothing under the "fails" category rather than the "breaks" category.)
            • OK, that makes sense, but what constitutes "failure" for clothing? Part of the purpose is to conceal bodies...

The Formalists are all Otaku.

Ten Thousand Fans, anyone?

  • Well there are Over Nine Thousand of them...

Ever universe that has a Cosmic Keystone takes places in bardo.

The Generator Merit can be taken by a Genius to create an item to provide Mania. Bardos need a continuous amount of mania to exist. Generators are the Cosmic Keystone that provides that Mania

Theories on the origin of Inspiration

I've got a few theories, including an Eldritch Abomination coming into the world through human minds...

  • Well I have a few:
    • The Terminals are attempting to make themselves exist again, The Terminals and The Cold Ones are a cyclic phenomenon that exist as Geniuses exist, then Clockstopers exist, as the nature of humanity inverts. From the perspective of "real" time both events exist on top of each other. From a time travellers perspective you can see one replace the other, but not the reverberations of time as they would cancel you out. (Made more sense in my head)
      • Except that the Terminals don't exist anymore won't exist do not, have not, and never will exist/ed thanks to those reptilian jackasses from Lemuria and Clockstoppers have nothing to do with the Cold Ones.
        • Ah but if the first half of the theory is true then the second half follows naturaly (ie they exist because the latter do). In any case the Terminals Do-Never-Have-Existed, there is no reason why they can't Never-Can-Have-Be-Happening again.
          • The Terminals don't existed anymore. The only way we know they were ever there is because the Guardians of Forever and other time-travellers who encountered them remember. There will have been numerous attempts to re-establish the Terminals. They've all failed. It's one of the oddities of the current time travel "settings." There is nothing to suggest the Terminals had any direct fundamental correlation with the Cold Ones besides keeping them from screwing around with time in the original timeline.

"(Made more sense in my head)"

    • Please don't destroy anything of value in your Breakthrough.
    • Inspiration created itself. It is trickling back through time from humanities transhumanist future, when all humanity has it, to the past. It exists in direct opposition to the supernatural forces acting on humanity, such as Mages and Vampires. Just as Werewolves are the natural defence of Gia Geniuses are the natural defence of Humanity. And I think this might be the scariest of my ideas.
    • There is a separate extradimensional entity for each Axiom. The ones closest to humanity (the ones with the core Axioms) are also the ones that have affected humanity the most. The can also be viewed via the five elements, Air all seeing like Apokalypsi, Earth is constantly changing from one form to another like Metaptropi, Fire is destructive like Katastrofi, Water heals like Exelixi and Wood grows, warps and poisons like Epikrato.
      • You sure Metaptropi wouldn't be Water and Exelixi Wood?
        • What? Really? Why would Water (an interesting molecule to be sure) trump Earth when it comes to change? The constant warping and alternation of the Earth's crust, the tens of thousands of different high energy chemical reactions that take place alone, never mind the fact that the entire face of the Earth is moving and is made up of highly reactive and volatile elements. And minds are inherently part of Wood, minds are living things after all. Water is perhaps the most difficult to pin but I do feel that Exelixi is the best fit.
          • Water is dynamic. It changes. It comes in many forms. Earth, meanwhile, as a Platonic concept, is generally considered the steady-state of the bunch; you'd be hard-pressed to equate Earth-as-element with the ever-shifting Axiom of Change -- most of those reactions fall under the domain of Fire or Water. Wood, meanwhile, is all about growth, all about improvement, all about "All Things Strive." If we're going with the Exalted-type element set, I'd say Earth fits Epikrato better; Earth-as-element imposes itself on its surroundings -- witness the effects of a hill on a rolling stone, or a wall on a speeding cart. Earth Controls things in ways that are both subtle and overt.
        • Pardon me for assuming that a Mad Science concept would follow Scientific rather than supersitious reasoning. (Please note the massive hypocrisy in that statement is deliberate, this is a game of MAD science after all.)
  • Inspiration is part of the reproductive cycle of some sort otherworldly entity that uses Genii to reproduce. This explains why wonders can eventually become Orphans, which are mini-Eldritch Abominations.
  • Here's one. I don't know much about Mage, but perhaps Inspiration is the Fallen World trying to "regenerate" a new Supernal realm? That might explain why Havoc is similar to Paradox, but isn't triggered by mortals seeing the Wonder; it's because this new source of magic is better integrated with the Fallen World. It would also explain why geniuses can't talk about science with mages; it's the two realms coming into conflict.
    • Havoc is a problem with the tech. Paradox is a problem with reality. (More specifically, it's what you get from two different realities trying to reconcile themselves.) And here's another possible reason: Geniuses represent an archetype that a lot of really bad stuff also happens to replicate. There's at least three different Abyssal entities that cause Mad Scientist behavior, the idigam's Essence-shaping powers are regularly used in ways that would make Mengele cringe, and the less said about the truly archetypal mad scientists the better. And then you have to remember that Mages are very concerned with getting humanity out of the Lie. The theory behind a Genius's Wonders is a fundamental misrepresentation of how the Fallen World actually works. If your powers work by lying about the way the world operates, you are going to get the people who care about Truth pissed off at you.
      • That actually explains perfectly why Mages don't trust Geniuses! ...on that note, I gotta wonder what would happen if a Genius discovers the Nemesis Continuum. Probably something very bad.
        • The abyssal incursion would occur, however as a Bardo. Any abyssal entities that show up would be Manes.
      • Unmada fields might be a safty meachanism to prevent geinuses from discovering the Nemisis Continuum. In any case, if a new Supernal Realm is being generated by the universe, then it's probably gone horribly wrong at some point, possibly being hijacked by the Abyss... (I also might point out that each individual geinus is trying to impose his own reality onto the world, which is where Havoc comes from).
        • That interpretation of Havoc is contradicted by one very important thing: Manes. Things that were never made can suffer from Havoc. A time-traveller can suffer from Havoc. And the idea that leaking Inspiration is the result of attempting to block a single specific phenomenon from a completely separate game's supplement is a tad overdependent on crossover.
  • Inspiration is Inspiration. It defies understanding.
  • Inspiration is what the Sons of Ether contributed to the new universe in Mage's "Good" ending!

Theories on Lemuria's and the Seers of the Throne's respective mental blocks in regards to each other

Let's hear 'em.

  • Ego. Pure, supernaturally magnified, ego. Neither side can even contemplate the idea that there is a group out there that could out conspiracy them.
  • The Lemurians are incapable of seeing the Seers because they fall far, FAR outside the reality they're willing to accept.
  • At one point, they tried a Super Villan Team Up, and things things so badly that the Guardians of Forever go out of their way to mind-wipe Lemurians who come in contact with the Seers of the Throne, preventing even the chance of something like that happening again.
  • Remember, the Lemurians are all Unmada. They believe they know the real way the world works, and Mages as a whole do not fit into their worldview. Their stacking Unmada Fields erase all evidence and even memories of the Seers, and possibly even amplify (and are amplified by) Paradox to do the same to the Seers. Maybe. I could give a more elaborate theory but I don't know enough about the Seers.
    • Exactly. That much Unmada-ness edits reality to the point that even mages who know of the Seers would have difficulty remembering them while in one of the Lemurian zotheca. Presumably there's something similar at work on the Seer's side...
      • Jossed; Moochava, on Unmada Fields:

[An unmada field is] never noticeable as "unnatural" to normal people, and it's the manes that handle most of the subtle transition, that and an effect like the Epikrato "move things around through a series of odd coincidences" trick. While a normal person--let's say a vampire who knew what to look for--might get a feel for what sort of weird environment he had entered, even a high-end unmada field looks normal, if odd. For reference, I live a hundred feet from a library with a lawn that's covered with metal sculptures of planets made of wrenches and similar oddities; this sort of thing is what shows up in an unmada field. (Try 2 Williams St, Williamsburg, MA, United States in Google Maps Street view and observe the...oddities there. Or try things like the Fremont troll or other bits of weirdness; in the World of Darkness, those would be signs of an unmada field.)

  • From each others' viewpoints, the Seers Of The Throne and the Lemurians didn't exist until recently. There are multiple Worlds of Darkness, one per splat, that have only recently begun to converge, Twizzler style, in the late 20th, early 21st Century. Its not that they don't see each other, its just that they don't the other as actually significant, having come into existence in the last decade or so.

The original, pre-Lemuria timeline is the Old World Of Darkness

Why not add one more way for the world to end?

  • Agreed, with the additional caveat that the Terminals would have been brought into being as a result(direct or otherwise) of the assorted end-of-the-world scenarios in oWoD playing out. So the "Causality trench" from the Genius Book is just the Terminals' timeline-shaping machinery trundling along with nobody to guide it, like a Steamroller with a driver that's asleep at the wheel(or dead).
    • Pretty much everyone in-universe agrees that the timeline that lead to the Terminals was basically the Best Timeline Ever (which is one of the reasons it sucks that it's gone), which kind of rules out such situations as the primal force of destruction unmaking all that is, the Earthbound monstrosities making life Hell on Earth, the Antediluvians rising from their slumber, or other catastrophes from leading to a timeline full of grand wonders of life in any straightforward manner. Further, there's no evidence that the Terminals would need "timeline-shaping machinery." They were (and here the past tense would like to apologize) the trans-sapient gods at the end of the universe -- why would they have needed machinery at that point?
      • In order to keep the timeline in check. As for the rest of it, who said that the Terminals originated on Earth in the first place? If I remember correctly, oWoD wasn't that big on extraterrestrials, AFAIK all the apocalypse scenarios were limited to Earth. In other words, Humanity and Earth die around 2004ish, Humanity doesn't spread to the stars and displace the indigenous wildlife of countless other worlds, someone doesn't accidentally do something that results in the Terminals becoming preemptively extinct.
      • At least one of those apocalypse scenarios results in the entire Universe either being destroyed or turning into Hell. And you seem to be forgetting that the Guardians of Forever - and thus at least some humans - existed before the Terminals disappeared. We're talking about entities at the end of time. They can be expected to be the cosmological equivalent of The Singularity, and the existence of "timeline-shaping machinery" would suggest that there was no way of altering the past at all. Need I point out how wrong that is?
      • We're talking about time travel here. If humanity was destroyed in the old Terminals timeline you still have a few centuries worth of humans who could get recruited into the Guardians of Forever and show up at any point in time. (Aren't all the canonical examples of Guardians we've seen so far been born before the oWoD apocalypse?). Timeline-shaping machinery doesn't suggest no way at all, just harder. It builds a causality trench not a straitjacket.
        • There's a scenario in Ascension that features a kind of apotheosis as the Good End, where everything wonderful happens at the same time and the combined That Which Is/Was is hurled through time to get things started all over again. It's possible that the Terminals were simply wiped out before they could go back to re-start the cycle, demolishing the entire timeline through paradox and Paradox.

The "future" Geniuses visit with time machines is just another Bardo.

Despite supposedly running on real scientific principles that just have not been discovered yet, Wonder-like technology taken from the future cries Havok like any two-bit automaton. What's more, the future is radically different every time someone different visits it, suggesting that it tailors itself to whatever people think "the future" will be like at the time- 1950's geniuses probably saw Raygun Gothic worlds, and so on. The suggested scenarios in the rulebook don't resemble various contemporary Sci-Fi novels for nothing, you know.

  • Except Bardos are a tad more complicated than just "place based on disproven ideas." You need a certain mode of thought to get into particular Bardos -- the book provides the example of needing to be in geosynchronous orbit and focusing on a particular patch of land to get to the Martian Empire. By contrast, any shmuck with a time machine can get to the various futures. Besides, how would you explain the Cold Ones?
    • The particular state of mind could be what you expect to see- you'll always get to a Bardo when you activate a time machine in a time-travelling state of mind, but which Bardo depends on what you expect to find- it does say it varies every time.

      And the Cold Ones? Nobody in a sane state of mind would want to believe the future will be a Cosmic Horror Story. A Genius, however, is not in a sane state of mind.
      • I'd just like to point out at this juncture that this particular theory seems liable to go down the same road that theories of the "the world is flat" bent are -- i.e. there's no way to prove otherwise because it may very well be a colossal deception-slash-illusion. (The corresponding theory is that the Earth is flat and every time you think you've circumnavigated you've actually come to an identical iteration of the previous plane. Space travel is explained away in a very strange way that escapes my memory and the internet cannot immediately provide. Your theory — it's all Bardos — seems likely to go the same way by arguing that if someone, somewhere believed in it, and then didn't, or died, then that's enough for a Bardo to form.)

        The idea that each and every timeframe reached by Skafoi 5 is actually a Bardo -- something which has set internal rules and logistics, but which does not require extradimensional teleportation or similar -- is counteracted by a very important point: for a Bardo the size of an entire timescale to exist (that's an entire universe, just so we're clear), a lot of people would have to have believed in it (the Phantom Slaver Yetis being spawned by one madman's feverish night-terrors is explicitly pointed out as an anomaly, and that's just on the scale of a species of Mane -- imagine how fervently everyone would have to cling to odd worldviews for time travel to still work like time travel in your proposed model).

        For that matter, fixed changes in previous eras (ones that have been paid for, that is) wouldn't be able to influence later eras; Bardos tend to stay more or less the same -- they are the worldviews they cling to. A far simpler explanation is this: the timeline's FUBAR from the Guardians of Forever's rising corruption and the continual screwing around of other time travelers.

        Further, your theory doesn't work on the simple grounds that if the "future" matched what people thought the future would be like at the time, it wouldn't be a Bardo because people would still believe the future would be like that.
      • Well, if there is a place for crackpot physics theories that don't make a lick of sense, it's in G:TT. P.S.; is that you, The Kings Raven?

Theories on the nature of wonders

  • Inspired can somewhat perceive different alternate realities. What is easy to build in one reality, is hard or impossible in another. When building wonders, they "borrow" the laws of physics from these alternate realities where their wonder would be easy to make.
    • Quantum functionality is a canonically followed theory for a number of Inspired.
  • Inspiration is basically the culmination of the state of mind that thinks something questionable is a great idea at around two in the morning. Mania works like the energy you feel when you've been staying awake for too long. Wonders function by instilling some of this energy into the ideas that sustain them. Mere mortals' eyes are closed to the infinite possibilities of the Waking World, and their contact has an effect not unlike that of yawning near a sleepy person. And to cap it all off, hallucinations!
  • Being a Genius is implied to be a lot like having schizophrenia, except that you can make your delusions real. And the crazier/more powerful you get, the more grandiose and dangerous your delusions get.
  • None of the above theories can be true- but Genre Savvy Geniuses have been known to use them as a basis for Wonders. As said above, Inspiration defies understanding.
    • And as said above, so are other things; I propose that creating Wonders is really a form of summoning aspects of such entities into this world. Kind of like Chaos.
  • Geniuses subconsciously understand the laws of physics. Every single one, including the supernatural powers from other splats. (Notice that Mania is pretty easy to turn into any sort of metanormal energy). A Wonder is a mix of mundane science and whatever metanormal stuff would make it useful with Mania as a binding glue so the various unique energies don't mix badly. For example an Exelixi healing device is nanotech but the nanobots are using principles borrowed from Sin-Eater Plasm and Werewolf regeneration. Of course a lot of those powers react badly to mortals: Paradox, Disquiet. Mania helps with that too which is why a Mortal has to actually touch a Wonder to cause Havoc.

Why Mages and Geniuses fight each other

It's not Jabir at all, Mages think Geniuses are abyssal entities: Think about it, there's already abyssal creatures that cause mad science and the results look like "spooky magic that isn't supernatural or thaumaturgy". Geniuses think Mage's are all some sort of non-Genius Unmada. "Everything the consensus says is The Lie, only my bizarre theory, which explains everything, is real!" and don't forget Pride. Depending on which game you're playing either group could be right. The Jabir theory only came about because Geniuses, lacking knowledge of the Abyss, weren't able to understand why Mages thought they were extra dimensional beings whenever the two groups met.

  • So basically, both groups think the other are Eldritch Abominations that pervert everything they know. Nice.

Cold Ones are Idigam.

On one hand, we have Eldritch Abominations operating like Illuminated, who appeared like a Giant Space Flea From Nowhere during the Moon landing;
On the other hand, we have Eldritch Abominations arriving from the depth of zero Entropy future following the Moon landing trail.
One side knows where they come from, the other one - what exactly they do.

There exists a mane that identifies itself as Ned Ludd

Which is terrible news for the Inspired. Most manes drain Mania as a matter of self-preservation; Ludd, does it specifically out of hatred, maddened by self-loathing. If he somehow manages to team up with a number of the more cunning Clockstoppers (despite the obvious obstacles) every genius on Earth is in deep trouble.

Moochava has a tentacles fetish.

Cephalopod appendages appear several times in his picture soup, mostly on beautiful women.

Everything else in the New World of Darkness is a mane.

Geniuses have existed since the dawn of man and over those years various large groups of them believed in the Mages, Vampires, Werewolves, Demons, etc that populate the New World of Darkness and because Geniuses believed in them they existed.

  • I could see this. Maybe they're all using a modified form of Calculus Vampire to keep alive.
  • Maniac Storms Do Not Work This Way! Think Of Transgression as a reverse Acsencion, if that helps.(Also, spelling. Argh.)
  • Well they were believed in, but then people stopped believing in them in cycles. They'd be powered by the disbelief, not the belief.
    • Page 284. "No one has figured out what happens if the scientific community decides that a true thing is true, then decides that that true thing is false. Probably something very bad." This does not bode well.
  • Page 393. "Not every strange thing in the World of Darkness stems from Mania."
    • Nothing trumps Word of Moochava.
    • Sigh. Fine. Ok, maybe not Prometheans, but the rest...
    • Frankenstein Prometeans are the closest thing to a mane official nWoD has.
    • They run off of Divine Fire. That doesn't sound like mania to me.

Theories on the nature of Clockstoppers

  • Clockstoppers are Inspired who've catalyzed through hatred, either of self or of technology.

Pythagoras is now a vampire, and the first of a new Bloodline.

It's mentioned that he was accidentally resurrected. Inasmuch as he wasn't on the list of confirmed Geniuses or Beholden, it's safe to say he didn't Catalyze. I call Rule of Cool and propose that he was brought back as a vampire, possibly a Mekhet, and has founded a Bloodline of mathematically inclined undead.

The Terminals where aborted from time

Each and every one of the terminals where tracked down throughout the ages to the exact moment they each where born, then about six months BEFORE that the guy who got rid of them... Well...I don't want to get banned from the site, but there's a VGCats comic a lot like that

Old World of Darkness is a Bardo.

It works on different principles than the New World of Darkness, at the very least.

The Terminals and the Cold Ones are one and the same.

The change in history didn't erase the Terminals themselves, just their support infrastructure. They still exist, but as the Cold Ones, and are in a position where they can't reclaim their former place in time.

Lemuria will have been responsible for the creation of the Terminals.

A group of Lemurians, still pissed off about losing to the Peerage, will go back to the beginning of the timeline in an attempt to help past!Lemuria win the Great War. But, as it turns out, this meddling is exactly what ultimately led to the Terminals' existence. In other words, Lemuria is Ouroboros.

  • Rather improbable, if very, very symbolically appropriate.

Everything made by humans is a Wonder and all people are Geniuses.

But most of the humans think that technology works, so they do not cause Havoc except when an untrained person tries to work on it. Modern tech can't be messed with by an untrained human. Change one line of code without knowing what you are doing and Bad Things will happen. People from the future don't cause Havoc because Wonders are not Wondorous to them anymore. This also explains why Clockstopers work on normal technology. They simply allow the normal laws of the universe to work on everything. So basically, everyone is an Eldritch Abomination that perverts reality. We can't comprehend reality and all of our theories are false. Geniuses simply have a different set of theories.

The reason Paper Goblins hate Atomists.

Who thinks of paperless societies more than anyone else?

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