Homestuck/WMG/Alpha Trolls

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UU is a Chimera

See, there's this biological phenomenon called chimerism, which is basically the opposite of identical twins? Instead of one fertilized egg producing two identical babies, two or more fertilized eggs produce one individual with a patchwork of different DNA. If one of the contributing zygotes is genetically male and the other is genetically female, chimerism can result in an intersex individual. And in people, one of the most common symptoms of chimerism is actually the person in question having more than one blood type running through their veins.

Maybe the Uu session's ectobiology machine glitched, and instead of producing two offspring grubs from their ancestor/s' paradox slime, it produced a chimera grub with a mixed blood color (black blood? tie-dye christmas blood? Who even the fuck knows) and mixed sex traits. Sburb, realizing it done fucked up, then induced Multiple Personality Disorder in the patchwork trollbaby so that the minimum number of people needed to play Sburb could be achieved.

Time shenanigans via Trollian and sburb-granted time powers will probably need to be liberally used, though, in order to make entering the medium Not Fucking Impossible.

Dreamselves tend to be closer to the individual's personal image of themself (terezi likes being blind and thus her dreamself is blind, while tavros doesn't like being crippled and so his dreamself can walk), so UU and uu's seperate dreamselves could manifest as having the blood color and physical sex that they imagine they would have if they hadn't been merged into a single person at inception. Assuming that the recent Calmasis' Legs panel is more indicative of their blood color than their chat symbols are, UU identifies as a redblood because she is a bluh bluh huge humaboo or some shit.

  • Or, given Gamzee already has shown split personality disorder to some extent and many of the other trolls have mental disorders, limebloods are just particularly prone to develop multiple personalities. The whole shenanigans with Chimerism is intriguing but there's no indication that ectobiology machines can even glitch in that way; all shown ones have been pretty reliably fool proof, especially when it comes to making the players and their ancestors. There's more to UU than there seems to be as well, as she told Jake her name would probably best never told, meaning she might outright be someone already existent in the cast (or not a Troll at all) and the brief appearance hints we've seen have all been a deliberate misdirection.
    • Besides which, none of this explains why UU said she and uu have different blood colors.

uranianUmbra is Karkat's descendant

According to the character sheet, UU swaps the 6's in Karkat's typing color for 9's, in terms of hex codes; the two are also similar-but-different in their approach to those they talk to (Jane and Jake for UU, Jade and John for CG). UU also mentions that she wants to know who her ancestor is, paralleling Karkat, who is not sure he even has an ancestor. If the trolls and the humans get into Universe C (following UU's name scheme), and Jane uses her stuff to recreate the matriorb, there could be trolls living in Universe C and playing Sgrub there. UU would then be a player in that session (the Hero of Space, probably, since she is awake early on Prospit, like Kanaya and Jade, without the trauma that awoke Terezi-hmm...). Her prospit-knowledge (or maybe something else) would tell her about what happened in the past, and what she has to do to help make herself happen.

UU is evil

She's nice right? However the trolls acted nasty to the kids but ultimately helped them out. So it's entirely possible UU is a Manipulative Bastard. Heck, she may even be a GIRL.

  • Feferi made almost no attempts to be nasty, actually. And many of the trolls who tried to be, utterly failed.
  • Taking this WMG to an extreme: The Caduceus can represent "deception". The symbol itself is of two snakes encircling a winged staff. It's entirely possible that Jane will go into the Medium by eating an apple, making UU the "snake in the garden". Who was Flanderized into The Devil. In short, UU is the Alpha-equivalent to Doc Scratch, and he's getting around his Villains Never Lie by pulling a prank.
    • Karkat turned out to be Troll Jesus. If UU does turn out to be the Anti-Karkat, it makes sense she'd be Troll Satan.
  • Alternatively, UU may be Betty Crocker. Perish the thought!
  • Re: UU being a really girly male/nongendered person: if this happens there'll be a note about Jane wondering why she thought that (cheers sure are weird!) despite calling UU "an alien girl from Uranus" and UU only noting she's not from Jane's solar system/universe.
  • If the scratched session makes the kid's guardians the players, then the troll's ancestors should be the contacts. In that case if UU is in fact Ferferi's ancestor, then the kids should be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
    • That's Jossed (by Meenah, who's absolutely nothing like either UU or uu), and based on a misunderstanding anyway: the trolls contacted the pre-Scratch kids because they're the ones who created them (and normally shouldn't contact another session at all). Unless there's a mobius double reach around coming, contact between the post-Scratch kids and pre-Scratch trolls shouldn't be possible, and even if it was it should be the kids contacting the trolls.

UU is not to be trusted.

One of the major themes of Homestuck is fighting destiny, predestination, and being forced to do things simply because time says so. UU has been careful to avoid "causal spoilers", but she told Jane what is possibly the biggest one--that Jane's session succeeds.

  • UU's symbol is the caduceus, used by Hermes, the Greek god of thieves and liars who also guides souls to the underworld (although the other wiki uses a symbol that looks like the rod of Asclepius (see below), a healer who could talk to animals thanks to some friendly snakes cleaning his

UU will give bad advice.

The trolls were initially dismissed as being unhelpful, but eventually became a useful source of information. UU will reverse this trend: her advice will be followed at first, but will gradually be realised to be useless, either accidentally or because she is attempting to sabotage the session.

  • Both UU and uu seem to be giving good advice thus far, albeit uu unintentionally so.

UU is a green-blooded troll.

There's a case for her being either one of the yet unseen limeblood caste, or a uranium-green mutant. The latter would reflect Karkat's candy red through the post-Scratch world's red/green swap, while the former is a likely source of her "Limey" Commonwealth dialect.

  • I personally prefer the idea of UU being black-blooded. It's the only troll blood color we know exists that we haven't seen in a kid yet. That way we can say (s)he's the descendant/ancestor of (some version of) His Honorable Tyranny, or whatever class he would be the lusus for.
    • That assumes that His Honorable Tyranny is a troll, which I think is pretty unlikely given his size, chitinous appearance, and strange-looking head. He's probably just an intelligent monster.
      • Word of God is that he's just some big lobster monster, and not any sort of troll or lusus. Having blood off the hemospectrum entirely was Hussie's way of showing this.
    • If there's more of UU's kind they'll all have eye-shatteringly bright (acid?) blood. Additionally, all the other "cheers" have pastel-colored, sorry, coloUred blood because they're the opposite of the trolls.
    • Not only is His Honorable Tyranny not a troll, but we have Word of God that lime is the only one not accounted for so far, having been seen on the walls of the Grand Highblood's room.[1][2] Note that UU's caduceus symbol is lime-coloUred.
  • Assuming UU isn't lying, this WMG is confirmed.

UU will be a Hero of Doom.

Given the current dead/not dead state of Sollux, the Heart and Void titles may not be the only titles that are unaccounted for. Since (according to her chatlog), UU is also playing the game (whether in the pre-scratch troll session or a different session entirely), she may end up filling in the empty title slot. It would also be incredibly ironic for her to get the "Doom" title, given her optimistic persona.

  • Or appropriate, given the "she's actually a villain" theories.
    • Or appropriate if heroic because, as Kanaya said, the game likes to challenge people to grow in new directions. We also don't know what "doom" powers are other than maybe Sollux's ability to hear the soon-to-be dead, but they might not be all that bad since they're meant to belong to a hero.
      • Or appropriate if she has lime-green blood, a la the color of The Felt members and Lord English. Especially if there is a deeper connection there.
    • Or it could be using doom in the original destiny/fate sense, which fits her thematically. Remember her constant warnings of casual spoilers and not wanting to change things?
  • Going along with this, UU will be a hero of doom, while uu will be a hero of Rage.
  • According to standard session rules, in a two player session, one will be a Hero of Space and one will be a Hero of Time. The only apparent loophole is if UU and uu are in fact the same person, in which case they might simply be a single Hero of Doom, as Sollux also displayed duality.
    • Also, if you think about it, all of the other trolls had unique aspects, separate from one another (ignoring those who are Scratch counterparts). But Sollux was the Gemini troll- there's a precedent for two trolls to share his aspect!

UU will be a Hero of Life.

The overt symbolic connection between her pseudo-caduceus symbol / her horns and a DNA double-helix / the wavy tendril of the Life symbol make this one a good fit too.

UU must be the Hero of Space or Time. Unless...

From what we know of Sburb, there are two heroes that implied to be present in every session: the Hero of Space (to create the Genesis Frog) and the Hero of Time (for a game to be able to be scratched). If UU is not a hero of one of these two Aspects, then at least one of the following must be true.

  1. There are more than two players in her session beyond herself and her "brother."
  2. Her session is a post-scratch session, just like the Alpha session.
  3. Her session is a barren session, doomed to failure with no recourse.
  4. Either of these roles are non-essential or can be transferred. We know from Doc Scratch that the construct to scratch the game will always be on the Hero of Time's planet, but we don't know if every (first run) universe gets a Hero of Time. We also know that Jade and Kanaya both held the task of breeding frogs and had the Forge in their lands, but we don't know if that's can be transferred to another Hero, but given that Word of God says that Homestuck is about a creation myth and that this is how universes reproduce, it's doubtful that a session could exist without some means of creating a Genesis Frog.

Either UU or uu will be a Hero of Rage.

Gamzee had to reach God Tier somehow. He probably died on one of their quest beds.

  • The most logical explanations are a) that's not Gamzee (somehow), b) he's somehow wearing the God Tier outfit without actually going god-tier, or c) there's a third, as-yet-unrevealed way to go god tier.

uranianUmbra is one of the Game's developers.

Or at least an Alpha Tester. This would give reason to why they know so much about the game even though they said this would be their first time playing- they're lying by omission. This also could explain why they hope the Alphas play the game- really, who wouldn't want to see their game unfold on their characters?

  • She's researched it as a historian. But these things aren't mutually exclusive.
    • uu's comments seem to support this, as they are playing Sburb mostly to escape the incoming Reckoning; unless that is a well understood phenomenon by society and Sburb is widespread and they are simply playing the game together

Also, in their first scene, they're playing "Homestuck" as a text-based adventure game, which could mean that they might not be playing an S-game at all, but communicating to the children through the Text-game.

UU has some relation to Rose or Dirk

Uracil is a nucleotide base that is contained in RNA rather than Thymine, which is in DNA. This implies that there may be some relation, connection, or instance of being the same individual as one another between Uranian Umbra (UU, 2 Uracil), and either Tentacle Therapist or Timaeus Testified (TT, 2 Thymine).

  • uu has a bit of an association with Dirk at least, as he is the only one uu can stand to talk to.

We will, at some point, get a chat between UU and at least one of the Beta kids post-arrival.

Either she'll contact then when she knows they're there, or one of the Beta kids will hear from one of the Alpha kids about her and pester her themselves.

UU is Calmasis, and is a son or grandson of Skaia, or something similar

AH in Troll makeup Calmasis UU's sleaves [dead link] My guess is that UU is the same race AH and Charles s Dutton are (mentioned on the wiki as the son and respectively grandson of Skaia), and posesses similar traits. Also Calmasis is an 8 letter word (same as with the ancestors), while Andrew Hussie is 6/6 (just like regular trolls). Predicant Scholar is 9/7 and sounds a lot like a Prospitian/Dersite name. I have no idea if this is significant in any way whatsoever.

  • Going with the previous guess, this could imply that UU is somehow related to the MSPA Reader who may or may not be the brother she was talking about.
  • Oh for the love of... 20 bucks say he's reading this.

UU's class is the Sylph.

All of the titles revealed so far in the Alpha version of the universe had only one representative prior to the Scratch. Keeping with this, it's most likely that the classes that are going to be used in the future are the Bard, Mage, Thief or Sylph. UU already stated that her class is exclusive to females in her conversation with Roxy, and that the Thief is strongly inclined to go to females but not exclusively so. Since we have a male Mage and Bard, going by the process of elimination by far the most likely class for UU to have is the Sylph.

  • Additionally, her aspect is either Rage, Doom, Blood, and Mind, all of which have only had one representative so far.
    • 2 player session implies Time or Space.
      • Unless UU and uu are actually the same person. A one-player session has not been discussed, but could very well mean Doom rather than Space.
      • Or neither of them are actually Heroes of Space or Time. The four Alpha kids didn't get either, likely because their session knows that they will be joined by other Heroes of Time and Space shortly. This makes it likely that UU and uu fall in the pool of Blood, Rage, Mind and Doom.
      • The Alpha Session is unique.

UU has something to do with Lord English

This goes into the much-discussed theory that she may be evil or misguiding. But while Dirk pointing out her British tendencies could merely imply that she is lime-blooded, it could also be an allusion to something to do with Lord English? I'm not sure, I haven't really thought this one out too much yet. I just jumped onto the British/English thing. (And yes, I know that they are not inherently the same thing. But work with me here!)

  • Don't forget the snakes! And Echidna (ie, head snake lady) in the Pre-Scratch Troll sessions brought Doc Scratch and English into the Troll Universe, so there's that too.
    • UU seemed to change a bit right after the part where Hussie (dressed in clothes resembling what little we've seen of UU) got shot a little bit by LE. And, tying in with the snakes - there's two of them, resembling the duality of LE and DS.
  • Cuffs with the symbols of UU and uu on what's probably Calmasis' legs? If Calmasis is an allegorical Lord English or Doc Scratch, this further implies a connection, about which post-Scratch Rose knew.
    • Interestingly enough, I didn't think those were Calmasis' legs. They looked too inhuman... too much like the legs of... Lord English.

UU is a lying liar who lies

She says she hasn't entered her session yet, but she's typing on an exile terminal???? Also, she goes on and on about refraining from 'spoilers', but also doesn't know anything that actually happens in the session due to Roxy?

  • She's typing on an unknown terminal, which draws inspiration from both Trollian and Exile terminals, and regardless, Sburb technology has a habit of leaking out before the session proper begins (Jade's Lunchtop etc). Also her dialogue indicates that she knows the outcome of the session and the events thereof in a historical context, probably said firsthand from one of the surviving players, before becoming part of the mythology of the resurrected Troll civilization.

On Alternia, UU is the chumhandle for all NPCs.

We've already seen two uus- one uppercase, one lowercase. It could be a possibility that on Alternia, all Npcs on the planet, instead of having a theme to their names, would have the generic title of uu, much like in a conventional RPG how an NPC was given the generic name of "Citizen" or "somethingorother 1/2/etc".

UU and uu are two split personalities of one character

Said character has the initials wW.

  • I... don't get the reference with the initials, but this theory otherwise makes sense to me. She's called URANIAN Umbra after all, and Calmasis (who is clearly a reference to the "thirteenth troll") is identified as androgynous. Having a male counterpart inside her own head would balance out her gender as such. UU claims they're siblings 'in an alien way'- none of the other trolls have had siblings, however, and uu even explains this. Also, if she has lime blood as Hussie has led us to believe, then she may be prone to some type of psychic ability due to being between Sollux (psychic) and Nepeta (non-psychic) on the hemospectrum- such as (some extension of) complete dissociative personality disorder.
    • Further, it would lend credence to the "Hero of Doom" theories, as Sollux had a bifurcated brain, which DID allow him two dreamselves as an unusual bonus...
    • And I say 'she' is the dominant personality because UU says she has a female-exclusive title. That and she has the uppercase letters.
  • wW is a pun off "Double U" ie, uu (lower case double u) and UU (upper case double u) can be interpreted as wW, which falls into standard handle rules.
    • Not much of a pun since it doesn't really mean anything on its own.
      • Puns don't necessarily have to be humorous; likewise part of the WMG is about it meaning something that hasn't been explained yet.
  • Seems to have gotten a little bit more support. UU disappeared and uu appeared for the first time when she meant to go talk to him, and when uu tried to Rage Quit his conversation with Dirk, his quirk inverted to include capital Us. Perhaps they're able to control the personality shifts to an extent, but as they get closer to them it's harder to distinguish between uu and UU.
  • A small modicum of support in this pesterlog, when Aranea states that the only surviving trolls are the Beta trolls and ONE noteworthy fugitive.
    • Aranea was clearly referring to the Condesce with that comment; you know, someone who's actually a fugitive!. uu at least has mentioned there are billions of trolls on their planet, so Aranea's comments clearly don't apply to UU and uu's unknown universe.
  • More support comes in [S] Act 6 Act 3, in Jane's chat with UU. UU says that her brother messed up her room while she was napping, but she's never met him in person. When pressed about this, she immediately and forcefully tries to change the subject. She slips up again by admitting that she likes how much space she has to herself on her dead planet and hurriedly signs off when Jane asks about her brother.
  • Thus making theirs a one player session?
  • They could also represent the fandom better that way, as they both represent aspects of the fandom and hatedom respectively, but collectively they are the readership as a whole.
  • More heavily supported again by Calmasis apparently being representative of UU and uu both.
  • Possibly proven during uu's game with Dirk:

TT: Minus n is so you don't pair people up with themselves. That wouldn't make sense.
uu: AND WHY THE FuCK NOT??
TT: Well, because...
TT: I don't know.
TT: Maybe you're right. Maybe I was being close-minded about self-pairing. What do I know?
uu: JACK SHIT OBVIOuSLY.

  • The updates following this page bring to mind a certain Pixar short about a man playing competitive chess against himself. The back-and-forth pesterlogs (UU makes her move, monologues, and leaves; uu makes his move, monologues, and leaves; repeat) don't hurt this idea either- they're leaving messages for each other, hence why blocking doesn't work.
    • That sequence confirms the idea when taken into account with other things UU has said. Their games are regular but UU and uu have never met each other. uu is able to touch the board to have done his trick with the caps, like we know UU can when she ragequits at the end, so clearly they must be close. Unless they're literally leaving the room while the other makes their move, they're rather conclusively the same person.
      • UU's ragequit? How about UU's ability to remove the caps uu put on. I have a feeling this sequence is leading directly to the confirmation of this, though it doesn't explain why UU told Jane she and uu have different blood colors.

UU and uu are from a universe which has already played Sburb.

The latter's dialog heavily suggests that the word they are from is a "DESOLATE ROCK" with a "FuCK" That's a fair description of a post-Reckoning planet, and UU seems to be using an exile terminal to watch the kids.

  • uu might simply have future knowledge of the Reckoning.
  • Actually, if UU has lime-colored blood, that would match the color of The Felt's membership along with The First Guardians, right? What if UU/uu simply hail from a universe inside the Green Sun, or destroyed by Lord English's conquest?
    • Universes are frogs, many of which orbit the Green Sun. There's no evidence that the Green Sun itself is a universe nor a living thing (that would propagate itself via the SBURB creation cycle).

uu and UU aren't from a pre-scratch session

Judging by the latest flash, troll society returns in the Alpha Session's future Earth. They might be from this future Earth and are communicating with the Alpha kids via time shenanigans as opposed to being from a different universe. It might also explain UU's knowledge of human society. It's not another universe to her, it's history!

  • Her knowledge of Sburb and the depth of that knowledge seems to suggest that isn't the case, as does the fact that UU refers to many many sessions that have come and gone. UU also told Jane she was from another universe. We also don't know that the buildings are inhabited or not; after all, the Condesce would have a pretty hard time establishing troll society given all the tribulations and trials it entails even for Kanaya who has a matriorb. However, it would fit into a neat sense of symmetry, and is well within the scope of possibility.
    • Given that UU's tome of knowledge is heavily suggested to be Rose and Kanaya's journal, it's highly possible.
      • Possibly Jossed by Dirk's confirmed that no trolls are on Alpha Earth.
        • In his own time. That says nothing about their future, especially if this is related to Kanaya's recreated matriorb.

This is stupid.

I know it's very likely that Hussie is just trolling, but what if he really is UU, while uu is Spades Slick? Just think about uu's icon (a black U with a red wavy line over it). Reminds me a lot of that one time he cut his hand. Plus he currently has a mechanical red eye, while the rest of his body is black and dark gray. Not to mention he's linked to Derse, and his chumhandle contains the word "undying". Slick DOES have some trouble dying, considering all the stuff he survived.

  • I was thinking about adding a theory "UU is Ms. Paint, and uu is the MSPA Reader" but I think there was already a "uu=MSPA Reader" theory out there at the time.

undyingUmbrage is a cyborg.

Here's my theory if Slick isn't uu. Since Hussie is dressed up as UU, then Slick may be (unwillingly) dressed up as uu. As the above contributor mentioned, Slick has a black & grey theme with a red eye. Maybe uu does too.

The Dead Libra troll, if one exists, will have rounded shades like Dave.

Bonus points if we learn that she used to wear glasses like Terezi's, but changed them when she received a gift from a friend.

  • Aranea is Vriska's Ancestor and has pointy glasses like Terezi, so Pre-scratch Redglare may have round glasses like Vriska.

The Unknown Dead Trolls were the "friends" Dream Jade made in the afterlife

I can totally see a shocking revelation like this happening. Especially since - if they are the pre-Scratch trolls - they would be more likely to be friendly. Emphasis on more likely.

  • If this is true, their identities will be exposited by Dog Tier Jade, since she's merged with Dream Jade.
    • Confirmed.
      • Not explicitly, yet. She confirms she met trolls in the afterlife but cannot confirm which ones. Although yeah, it's probably what will happen.
      • Given we know there are 3 groups of trolls, the mystery ones, the modern ones, and UU/uu, and the second were explicitly mentioned as not being the ones in question, and the third still have dreamselves, the only logical conclusion is that the mystery dead trolls are the ones Jade is referring to, though weird time shit could always enter into it for UU and uu at least. Unless Andrew's going to introduce assloads of fantrolls, that's pretty conclusive!
        • UU doesn't have a dreamself anymore (but then, that might still take weird time shit).

UU's "Historical Knowledge" is actually Rose and Kanaya's detailed walkthrough.

  • Or alternatively, a library from one of the meteors.
    • Those are summarized in Rose and Kanaya's book though.

All of the dead trolls will be effectively opposites of their Post-Scratch counterparts.

As mentioned above, the dead trolls presented thus far are Face Heel Reversals of their counterparts- Meenah is less caring and more violent than Feferi was while Aranea is more sympathetic than the sadistic Vriska. It could be a theme amongst the rest of them, once introduced!

  • Given what we know of some of the other troll ancestors, this has some weight: The Sufferer crusaded for peace while Karkat is perpetually angry, The Summoner led rebellions while Tavros lacks confidence, The Executor questioned the supremacy of highbloods while Equius believes wholeheartedly in it, The Handmaid is rebellious towards Doc Scratch and Lord English while Aradia serves the spirits she hears without question... It is, however, a far more difficult case for other ancestors.
    • Only the problem is that Ancestors are one-dimensional stereotypes while players are much more complicated. Compare the Alpha Kids to their counterparts as Beta Guardians, or the Beta Kids. Roxy and Rose in particular are strongly opposed, but even then they're not one-dimensionally the exact opposite of each other. Remember too the Sufferer's cool broke over into rage, while Karkat's rage is always tempered by his true kindness, the Summoner's rebellion ended in failure, like Tavros's, the Executor lamented his decision the rest of his life, while Equius's whole hearted devotion to the blood caste system led directly to his death, and the Handmaid was groomed to be nothing but a slave, while Aradia willingly learned to serve. Exact opposites, no. Overlapping highly, absolutely!
      • Even comparing Meenah & Feferi, they aren't exact opposites. Feferi could be pretty callous and didn't exactly let down Eridan the easiest she could, and Meenah at the very least is very outgoing and energetic. One's Ax Crazy and the other is a Genki Girl who happens to be a Nightmare Fuel Station Attendant. Also on Pre-Scratch Alternia, the Vast Glub could never be used as a threat to cull entire castes, eliminating one of the tentpoles of the Condesce's empire, and possibly the only thing keeping her from being overthrown.
      • And outright Jossed by Aranea's characterization.

Either UU or uu is a mutant paradox clone/descendant/ancestor of the other.

According to the chart on this page, paradox babies are sent to various points in time in pairs. If UU and uu are only playing a 2-player session, then they must be clones of each other. It would also explain why UU refers to uu as a sibling.

  • Furthermore, the Pre-Scratch troll players were a primarily (if the Pisces troll is any indication) peaceful race while the Post-Scratch troll players were extremely violent and murderous (except for Feferi, Tavros, and Gamzee when he was high). It's not a stretch to say their ancestors are polar opposites of their descendants, and when you look at the cheerful and supportive UU versus her angry and violent sibling...
    • Jossed via misunderstanding. Ectobabies are always made in pairs, even trolls, and double the number of players are produced. The UU session, having 2 players, would have 4 babies, and the two who aren't UU and uu would be their Ancestors / Biological parents. However, it could be a desynchronized session, in that one player comes from the past and the other from the future, in which case one might be the genetic parent of the other.

Meenah killed herself in order not to cease to exist, due to the Scratch.

Aranea just happened to die previously on their adventure.

  • There's no indication death via Scratch is in any way different from death any other way.
  • Now that you bring it up, does scratching count as dooming the timeline? The Babies/Grubs being sent in reverse order and all.
    • No because it was predestined. See such plot events as Jake and Jade being in contact, etc.
  • Close, though the WMG is probably Jossed as it seems Meenah killed everyone, Aranea included.

Other Pre-scratch troll names

In case any others show up (Pre-scratch Sufferer will likely), I've been looking for zodiac names that fit the 6-letter formula. Feel free to add more.

  • Aries: Neirra (Portuguese)
  • Tauros: Tyrenn (Norwegian)
    • Teseus (Greek Mythology)
  • Gemini: Besson (Catalan)
  • Cancer: Kreeft (Dutch)
  • Leo: Arysla (Meadow Mari)
    • Lolcat is a valid troll name!
      • Andrew isn't retarded.
    • Some variant of Freija (Norse Mythology)
  • Virgo: Sombla (Tatar)
  • Libra: Merleg (Hungarian)
  • Saggitarius: Skyten (Swedish)
  • Capricornus: Gadott (Waloon)
  • Aquarius: Verseu (French)
    • Drakma (after Skies of Arcadia's Drachma, who managed to forgive Rhaknam for killing his son Little Jack, unlike the guy he was based on. Since Eridan already draws some parallels with Captain Ahab, pre-Scratch Dualscar would draw some from someone inspired by him.)
    • Both Aranea and Meenah were previously suggested names (For Vriska and Feferi respectively, of course.) It's likely based on this that Hussie will continue to name the prescratch ancestors in this way- picking up long forgotten suggestions for the scratched session trolls.

Meena will be a Red Herring of some sort

She is a purple-red fish.

  • Already Jossed. If nothing else, she's providing characterization on the Condesce.
    • I didn't say what she'd be a Red Herring for, merely that she would be one.
      • That doesn't mean anything. A Red Herring is at heart an intentionally misleading character, and with Meenah's successful plan to save the Pre-Scratch Trolls and providing characterization on the Condesce, she cannot be a Red Herring. Also purple-red has a name, it's Fuchsia.

Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Mars"

This troper thinks it would be hilarious if the trolls turned out to be Martians all along.

  • Mars has two moons.
    • But Alternia has 3, 1 green and 2 pink. Moreover Mars doesn't really have proper moons, Deimos and Phobos being nothing at all like the moons of Alternia. Besides, why would Mars remotely make any sense? Pre-Scratch "Alternia" was a peaceful planet, and Mars was the god of war.
      • Actually the little pink one wouldn't count as a moon, the same way our moon doesn't count as a solar system planet.
      • Aranea says that the green moon was created after Doc Scratch started pulling strings, and not from her universe. Furthermore, the trolls aren't exactly aware of Earth's mythology, so it's not like they'd know he was a god of war. Troll Will Smith is also a philosopher, after all.
    • So you sayin' this's some John Carter of Mars sorta thing?
      • If it comes true, the movie will probably be referenced. Also the name "Princess of Mars" will come up.

Pre-Scratch Alternia was named "Earth"

As different option to the above.

Explanations on Pre- and Post- Scratch Personalities

Aranea has already stated that in life, she wished she could be more adventurous, and exciting. That turned her into Vriska in the Post-Scratch session. All of the Post-Scratch trolls' personalities are due to the desires of the Pre-Scratch Trolls. My guesses so far, feel free to add your own!

  • Aradia: Not sure about this, how would Aradia's ancestor be if there were no Felt/Doc Scratch to enslave her? My guess was going to be that she wanted freedom.
  • Tavros: Remember how everyone thought Tavros would be a huge jerk when he was first shown? The pre-scratch Tavros had that personality, and just wanted to be nicer and incapable of hate.
  • Sollux:
  • Karkat:
  • Nepeta:
  • Kanaya:
  • Terezi:
  • Vriska: Already stated.
  • Equius:
  • Gamzee:
  • Eridan
  • Feferi: Wanted to be a kind and understanding ruler.
  • One problem with this: Aranea's Scratched and Idealized version isn't Vriska, but rather Mindfang. It isn't the Scratched Troll Kids who are idealized versions of the pre-scratched versions, but rather the Ancestors. For instance, I'd bet dollars to donuts that pre-scratch Sufferer was actually similar to Karkat but wished he could be nicer, creating the post-scratch messianic figure he was right up to the end.
    • Don't know about you, but I can certainly picture Meenah wishing she could be Her Imperious Condescension. From what we know some of the ancestors became, we can probably hazard a guess for others, though it could potentially be Jossed at any time.
      • The Handmaid: Likely desired to escape mortality and have a more visible effect on the world around her, ended up getting her wish in a less-than-desirable manner
      • The Summoner: ?
      • The Helmsman: ?
      • The Sufferer: May have been much like Karkat but wished that he could be nicer, which on the near-Utopian pre-Scratch world could help him fit in.
      • The Disciple: ?
      • The Dolorosa: Perhaps she wanted to care for a child troll?
      • Neophyte Redglare: Desired to be a force for justice.
      • Marquise Spinneret Mindfang: Aranea admitted what she wanted to be.
      • E%ecutor Darkleer: Possibly wanted to be a merciful leader.
      • The Grand Highblood: Wanted a life of mirth, that would keep him laughing joyfully.
      • Orphaner Dualscar: Desired a powerful rival who would be a Worthy Opponent to him. There's some possibility that he had a caliginous crush on Aranea even before the Scratch, too...
      • Her Imperious Condescension: As previously stated, one can definitely see Meenah wanting to be a leader, and her troublesome, likely self-centered nature making her about the last person you'd want ruling you.
        • This is pretty much confirmed by her reaction to Aranea's tale, even though she didn't actually want to lead in life.

UU and uu are the Mirthful Messiahs

So until uu was introduced, I was convinced the cycle of universes Hussie was showing was Alpha!Trolls-->scratch-->Beta!Trolls-->Beta!Kids-->scratch-->Alpha!Kids-->Alpha!Trolls etc. But then these two and their two-player session throw a wrench in. But if you successfully create a universe you become its gods ... so what if they created the Alpha!Troll universe? And became its gods?

  • Jossed. Word of God is that A) The Alpha Troll session was created by a 48 player session of unknown species and B) Doc Scratch and Lord English are the Mirthful Messiahs.
    • (A) was an obvious joke and part of his Running Gag about doing an act about a 48 player Squiddle session in response to whining about how long Hivebent took the plot away from the kids.
      • A is canon. Karkat has alluded to this being the case with references to the Troll Zodiac having 48 symbols. Only the fact that they're Squiddles is a joke, and that may not even be the case!

UU and uu are from the A1 universe in some fashion.

My sole reason for this guess is the newest album, OBVIOuSLY.. In the title, the letters in the "HuNDRED BILLION CORPSES FERTILIZING THE SOIL." and "mayhem" are all 12 previously shown troll blood colors (i.e. Karkat's red but not the missing lime blood) and one gray U. 7+6 letters. The prominent gray U may be a signal that UU and uu are somehow tied to the A1 session (during or after the A1 session).

  • Don't you mean A2?
    • Nope, I mean A1, as in Meenah & Aranea's universe. All trolls in A2 were killed by the Vast Glub before the universe itself was destroyed, and since Sollux is the originator of SGRUB in A2 and only sent it to his friends, no one else could have played it.
      It's ambiguous whether or not a Scratch rewrites a session's originating universe or spawns a new one. (If multiple sessions from the same universe scratched, what would happen?) UU calls them different instances. This may mean that trolls on other planets in the same universe could play if creating A2 doesn't destroy A1 -- just the SBURB session that triggered the process.
  • Jossed if UU is to be trusted. She outright states they're from a universe not remotely connected to the chain of A1->B2 sessions.

Meenah is the reason that the dead Prescratch ancestors are in the dreambubbles.

The plan she spoke of was in fact her last gambit to exist in some form. Aranea's description of her implies she's not evil at all, merely rough around the edges, comparing her to Vriska. (Who, recall, risked her life seeking revenge for Karkat and Terezi's deaths in an alternate timeline.) Meenah truly did care about her fellow players, and with the impending Scratch, in order to allow them to "live" on in the dream bubbles, she stole their lives as befitting her title so that they would not be erased forever in the Scratch.

  • The fact that Meenah's plan is why they still exist was pretty much confirmed by dialog that first brought it up. The rest (her not being evil, her caring about her teammates, and her "stealing" their lives), all still WMG fodder, though.

Meenah will leave her dream bubble

Ponder this text from UU.

UU: for instance, a hero of life and a hero of doom have aspects as different as can be.
UU: bUt if their classes are different enoUgh as well, that is, one active and the other passive, remarkably there is a chance they coUld end Up with very similar abilities!

Now, the only potential similarity between Sollux and Feferi's abilities is that Sollux can leave a dream bubble (by virtue of being half-dead), while Feferi is hinted to manipulate them in some way ("It is the past, brought back to life by a witch!"). But what if it's not Sollux and Feferi; what if it's Sollux and Meenah? Given that Meenah is a Thief of Life, it's conceivable that she could steal life to come back from the dead, at least for a little while. It's possible that this is why coloUrs and mayhem: Universe A set up Roxy's meeting with Meenah - so that Meenah will follow her Dream Self out of her dream bubble and into...wherever Roxy's Dream Self ends up.

There may be robot possession involved, followed by Meenah battling the Condesce. Because with so many duplicates around, it's surprising no-one has fought themselves yet.

The pre-Scratch Ancestors escaped the Scratch

I know, this doesn't make any sense, right? They're all quite clearly dead.

Except...

Doc Scratch says this about the A1 Scratch: "This reset would come at the cost of wiping the failed heroes from existence."

But then Aranea says something slightly different: "the choice to do so came with accepting the annihilation of our existing forms"

Almost similar, but not quite. It's implied that Ancestors are in dream bubbles because Meenah killed them all before the Scratch erased them. If so, "existing forms" could translate to "existing bodies". In other words, the price of the Scratch was to erase the bodies of the pre-Scratch Ancestors from existence.

And this is totally different from just erasing the A1 trolls. Why?

No-one said those bodies had to belong to the alpha timeline.

So according to this WMG, the Ancestors had their doomed timeline selves start the Scratch for them. But why hasn't Doc Scratch, Aranea or even UU indicated anything about this? In a word, Void.

It's already established that Void blocks out Doc Scratch omniscience. But UU takes it a step further and says Void can destroy knowledge. Which seems to indicate some form of altering memories. Depending on pre-Scratch Darkleer's abilities, he could have blacked out the entire session and erased the memories of their doomed timeline counterparts, making them think they were from the alpha timeline. In other words, they pranked Doc Scratch. And he still wouldn't be lying about his earlier statement, because doomed timeline players are failed heroes, after a fashion.

How did the alpha timeline trolls physically leave their session then? This is where Roxy's dream self and The Great Flood references come into play. The B2 kids somehow create an Ark for the A1 session, which Roxy sends through the void using her Message In A Bottle Modus. They could probably also send Jake's size changers (the ones Liv Tyler has) so they could grow/shrink the Ark, and maybe other things too. Like their planets. And then they blast off for eithier the Furthest Ring or another Yellow Yard that Hussie set up in secret. This will make them a Spanner in the Works for Lord English's ambiguously defined plans.

Speaking of Hussie, this troper guesses the Hussie that died was also a doomed timeline self, and the real Hussie is hiding out in a secret base somewhere, explaining why he can still narrate even though he's dead (Dream Bubbles are not the Fourth Wall). A revelation like this is just the sort of thing Hussie would parody with a fourth wall breaking segment.

Convoluted and complicated? Yes. But this is Homestuck.

  • First and largest problem: it was Meenah's plan specifically that saved them from utter destruction. While what exactly the Life aspect does is still ambiguous, and it may very well cover the use of alternate selves, the fact remains that Meenah's plan couldn't invoke the use of the Hero of Void, especially given Aranea says nobody liked Meenah at all.
    • Secondly, the Aranea we see is God Tiered. A God Tiered player tricked into being a sacrifice with implanted memories probably wouldn't even qualify as Heroic or Just, whereas the implication otherwise is that Aranea died in a Heroic Sacrifice against Meenah.
    • Thirdly, without a God Tiered Seer of Light, there's virtually no way they could have navigated to the Alpha Session anyways; a Slyph's domain doesn't cover that and we have no idea who the Seer of the session was, if there even was one. Even Terezi's abilities weren't even enough to navigate the Furthest Ring, Rose's specific abilities were uniquely suited to the task
    • Fourthly, there's far too much extrapolation here. The Alpha Kids don't even know who the Pre-Scratch Trolls are, and given Meenah attempted to murder Roxy might not even care if they die! There's no indication that Void powers can alter memories, and there's no way without the influence of the Handmaid's duplicate that the doomed timeline doubles could be part of the plan. Not to mention there's no sign of Trolls anywhere in the Alpha Sessions mythology and all signs point to them dying at some point; there's already room enough for them to be a Spanner in the Works without introducing a convoluted plot to save 12 characters that haven't even been shown!
    • Lastly, the Green Sun's ignition and flash came only a fair amount of time after the Trolls completed their session; given the dire straits the Pre-Scratch Session was in (seemingly identical to those of the Beta Human Session), they wouldn't have had time to see the flash and know where to go.
  • Going with Jossed for a writing reason: Andrew is culiminating a variety of arcs and the story is winding down now, despite evidence to the contrary. Not many characters have been introduced completely new at this stage; only UU and uu are completely new to Act 6, and even they are reflections of Karkat. With all the plot threads Andrew is busy tying closed, it's extremely unlikely that he will introduce 12 largely new characters (as the theory relies on the fact that they are different from the Aranea and Meenah we saw) and save them, especially when the prophecy about the total deaths of all the original 12 trolls is taken into account. The theory hinges on an interpretation that Aranea and Doc didn't say the same thing, which is total YMMV. Aranea's comments are the same as Doc's when you consider she probably meant "current forms" as in their iterations as players. From there, the theory dances on so many loose connections that it's impossible to put any weight on it.
  • Meanwhile, Meenah apparently killed everyone using her session's Tumor.

UU will either be a Doom or Rage player, while uu will either be Mind or Blood

That is, if he's a separate being from uu. "Undying" could involve the Doom Aspect, while Umbrage could represent the Rage Aspect. uu is most likely a Blood player, as she shares Karkat's passion for Troll Romance. Many of the characters' personalities and hobbies have somehow influenced or represented their abilites later in the game. Also, these four Aspects are the only ones that haven't been used for more than once character. Also, I left the room for a bit, and when I came back, the Edit Lock timer was at 4:13. This is a sign.

  • Got the genders/tags mixed up there?
    • Jossed by the mechanics of the game; the two of them are the only players in their session, so therefore they must be Time and Space, which are required for every Session, including unsuccessful ones.
      • I mean, Skaia knew that the Alpha session would be joined by the Beta session, so who's to say they HAVE to be Time and Space?
      • Word of God is that those are the only two necessary elements. The Alpha Session's mythology has made it completely apparent at every stage of the information given about it that it has eight players, whereas the UU session is said to only have two. If their session was going to be added to in some fashion, it would be apparent. Besides, the Alpha Session is essentially unique, as it took a ridiculously specific set of circumstances to get the Beta Kids to the Alpha Session.
    • The sole exception is if UU and uu are a single individual, in which case they might be a Hero of Doom, however that is a separate WMG already covered above.

Pre-Scratch Trolls' Titles

Aranea and Meenah both share aspects with their post-Scratch successors, but not their classes. Nor did the classes simply switch between the two of them (meaning Aranea wasn't the Witch of Light despite Meenah being the Thief of Life). Not a huge leap of reasoning to say this is probably a theme amongst all of the trolls. (Working off a WMG in the Unified Theories section for classes.)

  • The Handmaid: Rogue of Time
    • Personal guess, simply because the Handmaid was forced to serve Scratch/English and wasn't allowed to... well, go rogue.
  • The Summoner: Prince of Breath
    • Personal guess is not Knight, as it would just be an Active-Passive flip. Also, not the Bard IF the Grand Highblood was the Page, since it would just switch Gamzee and Tavros' classes.
    • OP here. Just realized that I kinda eliminated all of the other Prince options, so I guess the Summoner is.
  • The Ψiioniic: (Knight, Bard, or Page) of Doom
    • Not the Prince if Dualscar is the Mage, as it would just switch Sollux and Eridan's classes.
  • The Sufferer: Heir of Blood
    • The Sufferer is basically Troll Jesus. John, the Heir of Breath, is a Messianic figure. If the Sufferer was also the leader of the pre-Scratch session, there's a precedent.
  • The Disciple: (Seer or Witch) of Heart
    • Not the Maid if the Handmaid is the Rogue, as it would just switch Nepeta and Aradia's classes.
  • The Dolorosa: (Seer or Maid) of Space
  • Neophyte Redglare: (Maid or Witch) of Mind
    • Only two combinations if the Handmaid is the Rogue: If the Disciple is the Seer, then the Dolorosa is the Maid and Redglare is the Witch. OR, if Redglare is the Maid, then the Dolorosa is the Seer and the Disciple is the Witch.
  • Marquise Mindfang: Already confirmed to be the Sylph of Light.
  • E%ecutor Darkleer: (Bard or Page) of Void
    • No possible combinations for Prince combined with others' restrictions. Not the Knight if the Sufferer is the Heir.
  • The Grand Highblood: (Knight or Page) of Rage
    • Personal guess is not Prince, as it would just be an Active-Passive flip. Also, not the Page IF the Summoner was the Bard, since it would just switch Gamzee and Tavros' classes.
  • Orphaner Dualscar: Mage of Hope
    • Eridan insists that magic isn't real. I cannot be the only one who the irony appeals to.
  • The Condesce: Already confirmed to be the Thief of Life.

So... Feferi's predecessor has Vriska's class Vriska' predecessor has Kanaya's class, hers has either Terezi's or Aradia's.

  • If she has Aradia's: Aradia's predecessor has Nepeta's class, hers has either Terezi's or Feferi's.
    • If Feferi's it completes a cycle with only 5 characters.
    • If Terezi's: Terezi's predecessor has either Feferi's or Aradia's class.
      • Aradia's is impossible since her class is already Kanaya's predecessor's.
      • If Feferi's it completes a cycle which encompasses all 6 females.
  • If she has Terezi's: Terezi's predecessor has either Feferi's or Aradia's class.
    • If Feferi's it completes a cycle with only 4 characters.
    • If she has Aradia's: Aradia's predecessor has Nepeta's class, hers has either Terezi's or Feferi's.
      • Terezi's is impossible since her class is already Kanaya's predecessor's.
      • If Feferi's it completes a cycle which encompasses all 6 females.

There are two possible routes, let's do the same with the male characters.

Karkat's predecessor has Equius' class, his has either Tavros' or Gamzee's.

  • If Tavros':Tavros' predecessor has Gamzee's or Eridan's.
    • If Gamzee's: he has either Karkat's or Tavros'.
      • If Karkat's, it creates a cycle with only 4 characters.
      • Tavros' is impossible since his class is already Equius' predecessor's.
    • If Eridan's: Eridan's predecessor has Sollux's and his predecessor has Karkat's, Gamzee's or Tavros'.
      • Tavros' is impossible since his class is already Equius' predecessor's.
      • If Karkat's, it creates a cycle with only 5 characters.
      • If Gamzee: Gamzee's has either Tavros' or Karkat's.
      • --> Tavros' is impossible since his class is already Equius' predecessor's.
      • --> If Karkat's it completes a cycle which encompasses all 6 males
  • If Gamzee's he has either Karkat's or Tavros'.
    • If Karkat's, it creates a cycle with only 3 characters.
    • If Tavros': Tavros' predecessor has Gamzee's or Eridan's.
      • Gamzee's is impossible since his class is already Equius' predecessor's.
      • If Eridan's: Eridan's predecessor has Sollux's and his predecessor has Karkat's, Gamzee's or Tavros'.
      • --> Tavros' is impossible since his class is already Gamzee's predecessor's.
      • --> Gamzee's is impossible since his class is already Equius' predecessor's.
      • --> If Karkat's it completes a cycle which encompasses all 6 males

Again there are two possible routes.

  • The Sufferer is an Heir
  • Dualscar in a Mage
  • Both have The Summoner as Prince
  • The Grand Highblood is either a Knight or a Page
  • The Psiioniic is either a Bard or a Knight
  • Darkleer is either a Page or a Bard

Meenah at one point had a fight with the A1 version of the Handmaid.

Likely as part of Meenah's plan to die. In that fight, if it was part of the plan, Meenah died and thus succeeded. Why do I say this? Circumstantial simultaneity. The fuchsia-blooded troll in a fight to the death against the rust-blooded troll, with one of them hoping to die in the fight as part of a plan that involves the destruction of a universe? From my pitifully limited understanding of the concept of circumstantial simultaneity, that certainly sounds like it could mirror the fight between the Condesce and the Handmaid. What's more, the fates of players in a post-Scratch session seem to mirror in some ways their pre-Scratch equivalents[3], so why not for pre-Scratch players in their post-Scratch status as ancestors? Plus, this might be why we never saw Meenah or Aranea before the Scratch: until the Condesce killed the Handmaid, Meenah's fight with the pre-Scratch Handmaid hadn't happened yet, since it happened "at the same time as" the battle between their post-Scratch versions.

  • Probably jossed

Meenah will eventually use her Thief of Life powers to bring herself and/or the other Pre-Scratch trolls (or at least Aranea) back to life and then they will attempt to defeat Lord English

It's said that Lord English can only be destroyed through a number of time-based glitches and loopholes. What's a bigger glitch/loophole than twelve trolls, whose timeline has been eliminated from the face of existence, coming back to life? In fact that might even be the reason why Meenah attacked Roxy in the first place, she was going to steal Roxy's life so that she could use it to help revive the others! Or at least revive Aranea if there are no others.

  • Jossed via misunderstand. That doesn't fit in with the role of a Thief; that's much more in line with a Rogue of Life than anything else. However, Meenah as the Thief of Life has both the literal interpretation of her title, that she's a murderer and ruined the lives of the others with sburb, or a more metaphorical take, in that her alternate as the Condesce basically distorted Alternia to the point where virtually all the other Ancestors were completely miserable, save herself.

Meenah once had flushed feelings for Aranea.

We know at least one female troll has been flushed for Aranea. Meenah is the only other pre-scratch troll we know about so far, and we know she and Aranea got along, while the other pre-scratch trolls didn't like Aranea much. Perhaps Meenah liked Aranea a little too much.

The moment the Pre-Scratch Summoner would appear...

...Is when Dante finally reaches Rufio: Make him pay.

  • "Jossed" if his sillhouette counts, but it did coincide with Dante releasing an audio clip of him reading Dave.

uu is a human.

That candy red blood is no mutation.

  • UU's lime green blood is a variation of that avocado-green blood that showed up in CSI (which also had an episode that featured a dude with chimera-ism, though no split personalities that I recall) - every time the uu personality goes to sleep it causes the release of chemicals that turn UU's blood green.
    • Eh, that notion runs into too many problems. Ironically enough, one of them is the biggest clue yet pointing towards the split-personality theory, just because of how long it would take them to go through the game. Also, during uu's first conversation with Dirk his personality, according to a previous WMG, started to give way to UU's - shouldn't it be the other way around?

Pre-scratch Sufferer and Dolorosa are moirails

Just based on the fact their post-scratch selves are extremely close, with the Sufferer being basically the only troll raised by another troll, and the Dolorosa being pretty much the only troll to raise another troll.

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  1. ↑ (Supposedly, anyway. I'll be damned if I can find it...)
  2. ↑ (Look at the dark green blood patches, there are slightly lighter splotches nearby. Think he meant that.)
  3. ↑ Jake's dreamself died, Jane's dreamself died but came back, the legends on LOCAH don't make it look good for Roxy or Dirk; pre-Scratch, Grandpa Harley died, Nanna Egbert died but came back as Nannasprite, then eventually Mom Lalonde and Bro Strider were killed in the Medium
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