Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep/Fridge

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Looking for Fridge Logic and such for the rest of the series, excluding Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep? Check here. Kingdom Hearts 358 Days Over 2 has its own page here.

Fridge Logic

  • Why was Ventus the size of a mouse for his portion of Castle of Dreams? At least Aqua had an excuse...
    • "Ventus is still working out the kinks of interdimensional travel." - So says the guide book.
  • All three storylines happen parallel each other, you just explore different parts of each world at different times with each protagonist. This creates some problems though, when some areas are inaccessible in one storyline due to a barrier of some kind that gets destroyed in another storyline. Logically, this should mean that once Aqua opens a closed door in an area that Terra and Ven couldn't open, revisiting as any of them should allow access. The game is inconsistent about how it handles these things, but usually this does not occur. For example, in the Enchanted Dominion, during Aqua's trip she destroys parts of the castle with Prince Phillip. Ven's first visit to this world occurs before Aqua's, but when he returns later the parts of the castle that Aqua destroys are now down. However, in Maleficent's throne room, the dark portal to the dungeons that appeared in Aqua's story does not appear for Ven. Why? The Insurmountable Waist High Fence--Ven can't go into the area of the dungeons that portal comes out at. As well, in Terra's story there's a dark barrier blocking entry to Maleficent's domain. It gets dispelled in Ven's story but will be there forever in Terra's.
  • The Insurmountable Waist High Fence is itself, Fridge Logic. Often there are barriers blocking passage, but as explained above they get taken down. In fact, between all three storylines you'll get to explore every area of every world with at least one character. However, when you attempt to enter an area your character isn't supposed to go, they simply refuse to continue, stating "there's nothing important this way" or something similar. There is just no reason at all in the storyline for the characters not being able to travel the worlds fully, and in fact, as detailed above, being able to revisit worlds to see what has changed since your allies have been there after you would add incentive to retrace your steps. Were the developers just dead set on not letting us explore freely?
  • At the Castle of Dreams when you play as Aqua. You need to protect Jaq from the Unversed while he carries the key that'll unlock the door to free Cinderella. Couldn't it have been a LOT easier of Aqua just used her Keyblade to unlock the door?
    • Aqua still needed to protect Jaq from the Unversed. Also, probably to keep the keyblade a secret: only Jaq knew about it and he still does not recognise it as an object of great power. It's better if less people knew about it (in-universe) and Aqua wouldn't risk to lose its secrecy to Cinderella.
    • Looking back at that scene, Aqua summons her Keyblade when she said she'll help Jaq. She probably was going to simply use that, but then Unversed show up and her focus shifts to protecting Jaq.

Fridge Horror

  • Well, more like Fridge Despair. The end montage of all the worlds that had been visited becomes a lot less happy when you remember that only about half of them will make it to KH1 unscathed. At least we know they get better thanks to Sora and company.
  • Braig's eye damage. Eeew....
    • Eye Scream is bad enough, but let's make it even worse: the fountain of darkness that erupted from it when he was hit kind of implied that it was burned out. It doesn't help that the dark smoke kind of looked rust red instead of purple due to the yellow background...
  • Even before Ventus was stripped of all his darkness, he showed that Dark Is Not Evil by still being the same person. If his darkness gave birth to a Complete Monster like Vanitas, what would happen in the case of a legitimately evil being?
    • An optimistic interpretation is that Vanitas really couldn't have been anything but a Complete Monster, given that he was darkness.
    • Going off of that, Vanitas is technically The Faceless. Nomura states that Vanitas looks like Sora because Ven linked his heart to that of the young Keyblade Master. Should he have been aided by a different benefactor, Vanitas would have taken the attributes of said person. In other words, Vanitas could have been Evil!Anyone. Your Mileage May Vary if that doesn't also qualify as Fetish Fuel.
    • It's not the fact that he's made of darkness that makes Vanitas evil. It's a combination of being mistreated by Xehanort and existential rage.
  • In Cinderella's world, Ven basically took over all roles that Gus had in the actual movie. So, what happened to Gus?
  • There's a very good reason Never Say "Die" is averted in this game. Remember this games occurs before Xehanort begins his experiments on the Heartless and they invade the realm of light. The Heartless stole hearts from their victims, but the Unversed are just monsters, sure they feed on negative emotions but it's never shown they were stealing hearts or transforming other people into Unversed, in fact the latter would go against their creation story. Never Say Die is averted hard because death is what actually happens to victims of Unversed. Losing your heart to a Heartless and being transformed into one is unheard of in this world, "death" is the only way to describe what occurs to people who, well, die.
    • Remember in the first Kingdom Hearts and its sequel, when you lost Sora was shown floating in a black void with his heart hovering over him. Birth By Sleep shows you floating in a black void, no heart overheard. Think about what has actually happened to your character when they run of out HP in this game with the knowledge that the Unversed have no interest in taking your heart...
  • Ventus was about Sora's age in KH1 during the majority of BBS, right? And if this took place about 10 years before KH1, then Sora was of course 4. So if the opening scene occurred on the day Sora was born, then Ventus was only ten when Master Xehanort tried to make him command the Heartless, ripped out part of his heart to make Vanitas and left him for dead on Destiny Islands. Training from Hell much?

Fridge Brilliance

  • In an interesting case of Real Life Relative as well, apparently, using Akio Ohtsuka as Xehanort all this time was leading up to Chikao Ohtsuka (Akio's father) as Master Xehanort all for the sake of an age-affected variant of Voices Are Mental when he commits Grand Theft Me on Terra.
  • The χ-Blade. χ is the first letter of the Greek spelling of Christ, and the Keychain resembles the symbol of the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven--which are also represented by the Kingdom Key (silver-shafted key) and Kingdom Key-D (gold-shafted key) that open Kingdom Hearts. Basically, all the meaningless symbolism--and several things which didn't even look like it--have been transformed into half-obvious references to Catholicism. And Nomura didn't plan this out from the beginning?
    • It gets even better when you remember that Nomura was the creative producer of The World Ends With You, which also took a lot of inspiration from Catholic theology. Also, the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven can be found in the Hierophant tarot card, which features a man in a throne. At the end of the game, where is Ventus's body? On a throne.
  • You know how every main game has a fight with the reflection of the character at the Awakening taking form of the enemy introduced in said game? Birth by Sleep notably doesn't do this until you learn that it DOES, only at the end of the game instead of the beginning. Vanitas is fought at Ventus' Awakening and is his Enemy Without.
  • Doesn't what Pete get banished for seem rather petty? Just trying to steal some prize? Look carefully at his stance, at what he was doing when he was trying to steal the prize. He was about to assault a city official. Not just any official, but the QUEEN. He was going to attack Minnie just to get the Million Dreams Prize. Not only does it make more sense and fit more with what was said in past games, but it also fits his petty, selfish character. Yes, that's right, he was about to beat up Minnie Mouse for ICE CREAM.
    • If you look closely Pete had his hand outstretched with the fist open. He was holding it out with the expectation that Minnie was about to give him the prize. Also he withdrew his hand before he was banished.
  • Hey guys, think about this awesome piece of Fridge Brilliance. The Very Definitely Final Dungeon of the first game, End Of The World, had some parts of Snow White's, Cinderella's and Sleeping Beauty's worlds, that by now we know as Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams and Enchanted Dominion respectively. These three worlds are all next to each other, and next to Mirage Arena, where the teleport that links the save point with the main room works pretty much like the so-called "prison of the worlds" in End Of The World. This may lead us to think that Mirage Arena, Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams and Enchanted Dominion actually are End Of The World as it was in the beginning, since it's pretty much a chaotic mash-up of them. Now stop for a moment to think about one of the closest worlds to this mash-up: the fact that Radiant Garden was next to the then-future End Of The World creates a striking parallel with the fact that Hollow Bastion was also next to it in the first game, making the left half of the Birth By Sleep world map the past of the right half of the Kingdom Hearts world map, while the other world next to the then-future End Of The World is the world which became Castle Oblivion, that is the place Sora went to right after his visit to End Of The World]], thus happening between the first KH and Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories. Wow.
    • Also, we finally get to see Destiny Islands' relative position to Radiant Garden, and it turns out it's just south of there, putting it just within range of The End of the World. Fitting, since it's the last world to get sucked in.
      • The problem is, Olympus Colliseum, Disney Town/Castle and Neverland are basically in exactly the wrong position for this Fridge Brilliance to work. On the other hand, it's never explicitly said that the ways between the worlds in KHI are the same as the Lanes Between, plus the worlds could have been drifting around since BBS.
      • As I said in this Wall of Text-like Fridge Brilliance, it's like the World Map of BBS literally mirrors the one from the first game. Disney Castle and Olympus Colosseum were in the left edge of the world map in the first game. BBS places them in the right edge. And once again... the Fridge Brilliance WORKS.
        • Um, what I meant was, while Disney town was in the far left in Kh1 it's next to Radiant Garden in BBS. and while Neverland was next to Hollow Bastion in the first game, It's on the far right of the world map in BBS. So, I guess Olympus Colosseum is in the right place, but for this fridge brilliance, Disney Town and Neverland would have to be switched.
        • Remember in Kingdom Hearts 1, after you rescue Kairi? Cid says the former gummi ship path to Hollow Bastion is too dangerous to take... so he shows you a back door that leads straight to it from Traverse Town. Now, Disney Castle is right beside Traverse Town, so if one looked at the map from the new path's perspective... then it would appear that Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden really IS right beside Disney Castle. It would make sense too, how Cid would bring the refugees to the closest world and then close off the path, thus making anyone who wanted to follow have to take the long way around. The Fridge Brilliance works!
        • But why would Olympus Collosseum and Neverland still be in the other side? (That and I'd always thought that back door sort of went "around" the other worlds, considering the way it sort of went off the edge of the world map in the first game.)
    • I think this whole issue about the locations of the worlds can be summed up with this: The worlds move, just like planet in the Solar System, worlds move acording to certain trajectories.
      • Hi, it's still me, again. To add further proof to one point in my Fridge Brilliance: I said that Mirage Arena is the basis for the "prisons of the worlds" section of End Of The World, right? And guess who's the resident, this-world-only Unversed boss? Iron Imprisoner.
  • How about this:
    • Ventus, Green, Dwarf Woodlands, Snow White, The 1st Dive to the Heart.
    • Aqua, Blue, Castle of Dreams, Cinderella, The 2nd Dive to the Heart.
    • Terra, Brown (Or Red), Enchanted Dominion, Aurora, The 4th Dive to the Heart.
      • Lampshaded in the Opening, when the trio's charms turn into the respective stations.
  • Xehanort's past goes a long way towards explaining why Xemnas was wearing armor when he went One-Winged Angel in Kingdom Hearts II. Confirmed in the Final Mix version where Master Xehanort's Keyblade Armor is fought as a boss, and it looks just like the armor Xemnas wore.
  • Aqua's main element is water, but her only water attack is a Shotlock, why? Because Aqua's ultimate exclusive spells are fire and ice spells. When you combine fire and ice you get water. Shown more so when she gets her Bladecharge command style (which is powered up through fire, and ice attacks) at the same place that Ven, and Terra get their elemental command styles.
  • Vanitas takes off his mask and looks like Sora after Ven meets Sora. For all we know, Vanitas didn't have a face before Ven met Sora, and Vanitas gained his appearance from Ven's memories! - Darkaros
    • The novels confirm the part about Vanitas not having a face until Sora's heart merged with Ven's.
  • I just got an amazing one: I was thinking about the end of BBS and how each of the three main characters, at the end, wind up in a different realm - Aqua in the realm of darkness, Ventus at Castle Oblivion in the realm of in-between, and Terra (at least initially) at Radiant Garden in the realm of light. Then, out of nowhere, I suddenly remembered the original "The Gathering" promo video of them, where each of them takes up one of the three main keyblades - Aqua takes the Kingdom Key D for the realm of darkness, Ventus takes Way to Dawn for the realm of in-between (or balance between light and dark), and Terra takes the Kingdom Key for the realm of light! It all makes SENSE! 8D -- User:Hakurei Ryuu
  • This troper was always annoyed by Kingdom Hearts' Flanderization of Cloud, which makes him basically nothing but an Emo Teen Adult and an unkind loner with hardly any justification, and making him just a hardly likable Flat Character that fans would only be happy to have because it's pure Fan Service. Now, while his perception of Cloud hasn't improved much, he may have found some reasoning behind all this in Birth By Sleep, no less. The ending credit sequence shows us a moment with Zack, and a black feather flies close to him, which has already sprayed around the likely correct Wild Mass Guess that Sephiroth killed Zack in this continuity. Now, add to this all the implications during Kingdom Hearts II that Sephiroth is Cloud’s Enemy Without, and you can see QUITE a reason for Cloud wanting to keep everyone as far away as possible from him, and his stoicism being fueled by an immense sense of guilt, nonetheless. (Admitedly, this is a bit of Wild Mass Guessing on its own, but hey, you can see where I'm coming from, right?)
  • This Troper recently realized that BBS's battle system is a case of this. The battle system's in the previous games, while playing as Sora/Riku/Roxas, were pretty straightforward with abilities simply complimenting a basic style of combat (Castle Oblivion aside). BBS's battle system on the other hand is extremely dynamic, relying on a combination of various techniques, spells and abilites to create an adaptive combat style. Not to mention the extra additions like evolving finishers, command styles and Shotlocks. At first, this may just seem like an altered gameplay to change things up, but in the context of the story, it makes perfect sense. Terra, Aqua and Ven had years of training compared to Sora and Riku who more or less taught themselves. This becomes especially apparent when you remember that Terra's lingering sentiment was pretty much the toughest boss we had ever faced, and in BBS you could learn pretty much all of his moves. The altered battle system is giving us an idea of what the Keyblade can really do.

Xigbar:"I guess that must be why the Keyblade chose you. But MAN, did it pick a dud this time. You don't look like you're half the hero the others were."

      • Chain of Memories also makes sense from this explanation. Sora, being so close to Ventus's body, ended up unlocking some of Ven's skills. Thus letting him do crazy stuff that he hasn't been able to do before!
  • This game turned being a keyblade bearer into something that anyone with a strong heart can do as opposed to a skill only Sora possessed. But if you think about it this makes Sora the "last survivor of an ancient warrior culture which aligns itself to light and opposes darkness". Considering that the English dub got Mark Hamill as a voice actor, is Sora a reference to Luke Skywalker.
    • Apparently, Mark Hamill and Leonard Nimoy were chosen for their roles almost specifically because they were in Star Wars and Star Trek. I'm just surprised I haven't heard any comments about Star Trek being "The Dark Side."
  • Sora caused everything. No, really. Alright, Master Xehanort might've had a more obvious hand in everything, but, had Sora not fused his heart to Ven's, Ven would have died. Had he not taken the alive - but nearly comatose - Ven to the Land of Departure, Xehanort might not have ever never returned there. Thus, he might never have met Terra, and thus never have decided to use Terra as his vessel for his Grand Theft Me scheme. True, as the secret ending hinted, he had other options, but Sora's interference changed things.
    • I see your reasoning, but it's poor logic. Sora's heart was newborn, reaching out to help someone in need. He changed the circumstances, but Xehanort was the one who took advantage of them. Like you said, he had other options. Who's to say he wouldn't have eventually crossed paths with Eraqus and sensed Terra's darkness? Not only that, Vanitas was activly trying to cultivate Aqua as a possible replacement for Ven, so even if Ven had died there still would have been reason to involve her. If Sora hadn't stepped in it would NOT have meant Terra and Aqua would have been spared from Xehanort's plots. The cause, the reason things escalated and unfolded in spite of the shifting situation was Xehanort, pure and simple. Sora's intervention just facilitated things.
  • There's a noose hanging from the tree in Neverland. There are only two Lost Boys. These boys are nowhere to be seen in the other games. These are dots you don't want to connect.
    • ...HOOOOOK!
    • I... think that might count as Fridge Horror.
    • That's what it was listed as before it was moved here.
    • Someone hasn't watched Peter Pan lately! The Lost Boys' hideout has always been the Hangman's Tree. They even use the noose to open the door in the movie.
  • Terra's penultimate and final bosses. Think about it. In the preceding cutscene, Terra goes into full darkness rage mode. Master Xehanort is trying to goad him into darkness. During the battle, Master Xehanort is pretty passive. He sometimes teleports in to smack you, but largely he lets you come to him. Thus, Terra is fighting in a very aggressive darkness way. When Terra gets possessed and you fight as the Lingering Sentiment, this way of fighting will get you killed. Terranort is aggressive and can counterattack most of your standard attacks. The best tactic? Sitting back and guarding all his darkness projectiles back at him or countering his physical attacks - the exact opposite of the fight with Master Xehanort.
  • Let's think about something here. Roxas looks like Ventus. Roxas is Sora's Nobody. Sora and Roxas are identical in appearance, particularly their facial features, which means that Sora and Ven are also identical. Coincidence? I think not. Before he was born, Sora used his own heart to fix Ven's. Since then, they formed a connection. As a result, Sora received some of Ven's traits as well, particularly his facial features, and that's why they look so similar!
    • Not only that. Sora is also identical in everything but hair and eye color to Vanitas. After Vanitas was separated from Ven, Ven's heart was damaged. Sora's heart healed it. It's as if Sora filled the hole that Vanitas left, hence their identical appearance.
      • I stared at the screen in shock (and then laughed hysterically) when Vanitas's face was revealed to be identical to Sora. But then it got me thinking about Kingdom Hearts II. Vanitas looks just like Sora does in Kingdom Hearts II. We all know that Vanitas's appearance was influenced by Sora when his heart merged with Ven's to repair it. In the first Kingdom Hearts, Sora does look a bit like Ven (and he really DOES look like a spitting image of Ven when he's four years old. It just takes a while to see it). But when he wakes up in Kingdom Hearts II, he's identical to Vanitas save for the eye, skin, and hair color. Now before you accuse me of going in a sort of circle-like line of reasoning, during the time Sora was asleep, his Nobody, Roxas was running around. Whatever part of Ven he had inside of him was gone. It's possible that the Vanitas part began to influence his appearances, and if this is the case, imagine how differently Sora would've acted if Roxas didn't reunite with him when he did. It would explain the sudden new hair style, as well as how he managed to get those muscles he showed off in Atlantica after taking a nap for a year. - Yuuaku
    • Have noticed that, Ventus Put his hands behind his head just like Sora? And when Aqua- and also Terra- saw them, Sora didn't do this. In the Ending of the Final Episodes, when Sora accepted Ven into his heart, he DID it for the first time. oh gosh. - Mirrelle 94 Dancer
  • Didn't think about it before, but in the beginning of the game, Aqua startles Ven who dozed off while star-gazing and called him a "hopeless sleepyhead". Guess what happened to him after defeating Vanitas.
  • Terra can use Darkness and Earth commands. Ven can use Holy and Wind commands. In Christianity, where are Heaven and Hell located?
    • As a side note, Aqua's Ghost Drive could be seen as a purgatory of sort.
  • In Days, Tinkerbell seems to want Roxas's attention to go somewhere...why's she so insistent? She recognizes Roxas because he looks just like Ventus, literally the same kid from 10 years ago. And because Roxas and we (The audience) can't understand Tinkerbell, we can't be sure of what she's saying so that's actually a nice way to have someone recognize Roxas as Ventus without calling forward too much. The Dev Team DOES think of everything.
  • The name of Terra's signature keychain takes on a new meaning in English. Literally, "Ends of the Earth" is another way of saying "Gaia Bane" (the Japanese name), but it also shows the lengths to which Terra is willing to go to protect his friends. As in "I'd go to the Ends of the Earth for you."
    • On another note, he's perfectly willing to destroy his former body, as in becoming his own bane, for them - The Knower
  • Fridge Horror in this case. As the secret ending shows, Terra is locked in an And I Must Scream state, alleviated slightly by the fact that Old!Xehanort is the same way. It's implied that the place they are locked in is Terranort's heart. Now, what do you think happened once Terranort lost his heart? True, Terranort's body most likely became Xemnas, but Nobodies don't have hearts. Oh fuck...
    • Uhm, this really doesn't feel particularly frightening. In fact, it rather explains why Terranort's Heartless and Nobody are so different. A Heartless is a heart's darkness given/made flesh, thus, with Master Xehanort being so much more filled with darkness, it's understandable that Terranort's Heartless resembles Xehanort so much more. In the case of Xemnas, you can see some shades of Terra, because it's got memories of both Xehanort and Terra... and perhaps some identity confusion. Terranort had amnesia, so it's unknown how many memories Xemnas carried over.
  • Here's one that goes all the way back to the first game. The reason Xehanort's Heartless kicked Riku's heart out of his body when he possessed him in KH1 was to avoid repeating what happened with Terra. Master Xehanort had enough trouble containing Terra's heart; adding Riku's into the mix would have resulted in the two of them rebelling against him (and probably succeeding). And they say villains never learn from their mistakes...
    • I'm confused. When exactly did the Fake Ansem "kick Riku's heart out"? Riku was still there to hold him back enough time for Kairi to escape, and he only returns once Sora defeats him. Even right before fighting the Fake Ansem, he shows up in Riku's form. Besides, in any case, as I replied to the Fridge Horror above, there was really little of Terra in that Ansem.
      • Actually, what the first poster says is true about Riku's heart. Xehanort's heart really did eject Riku's from his body after Riku began fighting back. A scene from the first Final Mix was added in to show that Riku's heart had made it to where the Door to Darkness would appear. That's where he met Mickey and that is why they both appeared on the other side of the door. Xehanort did learn from his mistake with Terra, even if he may or may not have remembered when he did the same thing to Terra that he did to Riku.
  • This may be too "obvious" to count as Fridge Brilliance, but as someone who never saw the Disney Version of Snow White as a child and only grew up with the original story, this trooper was very surprised when she, shortly after finishing the Snow White-section of Terra's story, came to realize: "Wait a second... that all seemed kinda famili- Oh my god! Terra has effectively taken the place of the huntsman!!"
  • This troper (still me, guys) just had a relatively minor realization. Why the Field of Blades that is Keyblade Graveyard has many keyblades from Kingdom Hearts II (like the Follow The Wind or the Fenrir, just to name two) and from the first KH? Call Forward? No, it's just that those worlds were still existing, and they never got caught in the darkness.
  • I hadn't thought about the name of the music that plays when you battle the Lingering Sentiment in KH 2:FM+ other than that it was named "Rage Awakened" for the Rule of Cool. Then I saw the scene before the final battle in Terra's story with Terra-Xehanort AS the Lingering Sentiment. Without the song, it would seem like it was just Terra's determination to protect his friends, but the songs name says otherwise. Terra was JUST THAT PISSED OFF. - BrickBuster90
  • One more from User:Alex Sora 89. Just as Re:coded let us experience a boss battle against Roxas, previously only seen in the Final Mix version of Kingdom Hearts II, the bonus bosses in BBS seem to be another apology to us non-japanese fans by Tetsuya Nomura. Think about it: Vanitas' Lingering Spirit standing for Terra's Lingering Spirit (both fought at Keyblade Graveyard with the former even being accessed through an orb similar to Org. XIII's "Absent Silhouettes") seen in Final Mix (KHII), and the Unknown (BBS) standing for Xemnas as fought in Final Mix (KHI).
  • Look carefully at the arena battle during Terra's final battle with Terranort. Notice anything familiar about it? If not, it is almost identical to the pattern used for Master Eraqus's signature move. And when Eraqus died, he fell into Terra's arms and faded almost exactly like Kairi fell and faded in the very first game. And we all know what happened to Kairi's heart then, right? So, this means that its possible that, just as Kairi's dying body sent her heart into Sora, Eraqus' dying body sent his heart into Terra. This actually makes the final battle even more awesome.
    • That's not fridge because it's confirmed in the Blank Points.
  • An interesting case with Final Mix's Bonus Boss No Heart. It uses Xehanort's keyblade and is similar to the Lingering Sentiment. Consider what would have happened to "Ansem" in KH I. The heart would have gone to Kingdom Hearts and eventually to Xemnas! Remember the armor he wears after going One-Winged Angel? And then in the final battle he reappears wearing a black and white coat? Guess he did get his heart back.
  • This Troper had a bit of Fridge Logic over the new Monstro battle. Why is he in the ocean like the real Pinocchio instead of in space like Kingdom Hearts 1? Then it hit me; this is 10 years before Kingdom Hearts 1, Monstro could of easily gotten into space in that time.
  • This troper thought it was Rule of Cool that Ventus held his keyblade backwards. However, when you think of how holding a weapon like that would work, it would make the user's movement come before the weapon's movement, the opposite of holding it the normal way. This makes Ventus' higher agility but weaker blows make much more sense.
  • Here's a minor one, but Destiny's Embrace (the keychain Kairi uses in KH2 and the one she gives to Aqua in this game) has the same strength/magic stats as Oathkeeper in KH 2.
  • This troper just had a moment of Fridge Horror (well, more like Fridge Tearjerker, but there's no page for that...). If he understands how this works correctly, Master Xehanort is in control of Terra's heart. That means that while the actions of "Ansem" from the first Kingdom Hearts could be blamed on Xehanort, Xemnas from KHII, who had no heart? That's Terra. Granted, an emotionless Terra with a severly messed up memory, but the thought that the guy who was so desperate to not be the bad guy in BBS becoming that is kinda depressing.
    • MX specifically says that he controls Terra's body, too. ("Your heart succumbs, your body submits...", "The muscles and sinew that once obeyed now rebel against you" etc.) So yeah, that's either MX making Xemnas evil, or just what happens when you become a Nobody. Not really Terra's fault.
    • Actually, it's even more complex than that: In KH Universe, a being is made up of Heart, Body and Soul/Mind. It roughly corresponds to the japanese concepts of "Kokoro-Karada-Tamashi". Xemnas is made up of Terra's body and MX's mind/soul. Where is Terra's mind/soul, you ask? Lingering Sentiment. 'Nuff said.
  • A bit of Fridge Logic here. In Kingdom Hearts II, at the beginning, remember how depressed Axel looked like when he saw that Roxas forgot him. That's already pretty harsh. But then there is that scene in Birth by Sleep. When Lea says he wants people to remember him, because "as long as they do so, he will be immortal". That's called "athazagoraphobia", the fear of being forgotten... Ouch.
    • Bit of an irony here, actually. Axel seems to remember his past self as Lea, yet does not recall memories of Ventus 10 years prior to his meeting with Ventus's carbon copy, Roxas.
  • Possibly Fridge Horror. Xehanort's leap off the Slippery Slope seems to have been induced by these factors: curiosity about darkness he was not allowed to research, a long time spent away from the Land of Departure...as though he'd had good reason to avoid the place, say he'd gotten into A FIGHT with someone...and a later, very canon fight with Eraqus. Now, consider Xehanort's Letter from Ven's story. He says to hold a Mark of Mastery exam, but nowhere in that letter does he suggest failing anyone on account of darkness! Xehanort is later able to recruit Terra because Terra is feeling rejected. Finally, Eraqus dies because Terra and Ven were acting in self-defense/friend-defense against him. Xehanort may be the purposeful wielder of darkness, but he isn't the one to blame for all the stuff that happened! ERAQUS IS!
    • Considering the things Eraqus says during the boss fight with him, that makes a lot of sense - The Knower
    • YMMV; given that Xehanort clearly manipulates the mark of mastery test and may well be responsible for the flash of darkness from Terra and recruited Ventus solely to create a new body for himself and, when that didn't work out, decided on Terra as a backup plan and used Ven so he could get the X-blade. While Eraqus may be to blame for being mistrusting/trusting of the wrong people, and for not flat out explaining things when it would have helped matters greatly, it's hard to blame him for everything.
      • I think the OP of this entry was Completely Missing the Point of Xehanort's letter. Before Xehanort, Eraqus was going to promote both Aqua and Terra to Mastery without an exam. Xehanort suggested that Terra wasn't ready, and couldn't control his darkness, and advised Eraqus to hold an exam just in case. Eraqus listened to the advice of his friend, who proceeded to rig the exam and force Terra's darkness to the foreground. Xehanort stages every event in Birth By Sleep to get what he wants, the only variables in his plan are Aqua and Mickey, both of whom he immediately attempts to eliminate. One of the things he clearly planned is Terra failing the exam, and another is Terra nearly killing Eraqus.
  • The reason that it was Aqua that was so effectively able to derail Xehanort's plan was because she was not apart of them. Unlike Ven and Terra, who both had huge roles to play and so Xehanort would have thought out how best to manipulate them, Aqua was just a third wheel and so the only plan Xehanort had for her was to kill her at the opportune moment to better manipulate Ven and Terra. Due to that, Xehanort hadn't factored her into pretty much any of his plans.
  • Here's something most people didn't see before. In KH 2 the book in the Mysterious Tower has three stories, The Beginning, The Interlude and the Future story. Read the Beginning, the first three lines involve journeys and those of light and darkness, then the fourth line about friends who's path differ but share the same bond. Then the last line about doubting the path you've been on. The story was not just talking about Sora, Riku & Kairi but about Terra, Aqua & Ven as well in addition to Master Xehanort and Vanitas. Yen Sid was being extremely subtle about clueing Sora in about what happened years ago. The devs thought of everything
  • On that note the Future Story is seems to be talking about what Ansem said in the secret ending 'everyone is waiting for their birth by sleep'.
  • Maleficent and Lady Tremaine are portrayed by the same actress in English. Cutting corners? Maybe, but also consider that in the movies the two characters are from, they were both portrayed by Eleanor Audley - so their "Replacement" voice actress carried on the legacy.
  • For the longest time, I never liked the design of Ven's Keyblade. I always thought it looked... awkward and incomplete. But then I realized... each Keyblade's default form seems to reflect its user's heart. Of course Ven's would look incomplete, his heart's been fractured!
  • Ok, so this may be a bit of a stretch...but in BBS, Isa has no weapon, right? Well, when we see him next, he's wielding a weapon-back handed, JUST LIKE VEN. Maybe he copied Ven?
  • Riku tries to cheer Sora up by making a pun about him being the sky that everyone is praying to. I don't know much about Japanese vocabulary, but consider the use of Latin in this game. The kanji, Sora, can be translated into Latin two ways: Vanitas, meaning emptiness, void or vanity (which we are all well aware of as being a pun in this game), and Caeli, meaning sky or heaven. Now rendering Sora in that sentence as "heaven" makes a lot more sense than "sky." Not only does it fit well with the Messianic Archetype, but all the symbolism and use of doors as plot devices calls to mind a quote from the Book of Genesis as rendered in the Latin Vulgate, "Non est hic aliud, nisi domus Dei et porta Caeli." In English, "This is none other than the house of God and door to Heaven," which is why Jacob named the site Bethel, which means "House of God," in Hebrew.
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