Pokémon Colosseum/Headscratchers
- Rui was kidnapped in Pyrite Town. The goons then travel to the Outskirt Stand, and then to Phenac City. But... the Outskirt Stand is further from Pyrite than Phenac...
- Maybe they missed it? I mean, Orre is a giant desert after all. It's possible they could have gone so far off track that they overshot Phenac, and only found out once they reached the Outskirt Stand. They're certainly incompetent enough to do that.
- They're eating there. They said.
- They never kidnapped Rui in Pyrite Town, they discovered her there, and chased her to kidnap her, so they most likely had to chase her past the Outskirt Stand where they captured her and then decided to stop for lunch.
- Actually, no-one ever said that. She might have been kidnapped in Pyrite. But they specificially say they've just eaten, after walking out of the Outskirt Stand.
- It personally just bugs this troper that so many people consider Shadow Pokemon to be the spawn of Satan. I mean, seriously, they're controllable and they don't attack your Pokemon. They listen to their trainer when they go into Hyper mode, a mode that is explicitly stated to be an emotional high. Their attacks still only faint an opposing Pokemon, even if you use a Shadow move. They relax when you give them a massage. They clearly respond to affection by reopening their heart. They're not soulless, nor are they bloodthirsty maniacs. Hell, the worst we actually see is a Makuhita punching (well, it's implied anyways) a human (although, admittedly, I've only played Colosseum. Maybe XD changed things).
- Shadow Pokemon are probably like this cat: only "evil" because they've been abused to the point of oblivion and dangerous and repellent to human affection because of it. I imagine they're basically like dogs that would bite your hand off because they assume that any attempt to touch them is an attempt to hurt them. Purifying is equivalent to readjusting an abused animal to accept affection and whatnot.
- That interpretation doesn't quite work, considering you can take a freshly snagged Shadow Pokemon and start massaging it until its heart reopens. And (from what I've seen), XD just had you sticking them in purification chambers.
- It's touchy territory with you, so I'll try to explain it away. From what we've come to know, Shadow Pokemon are to be pitied, as Prof. Krane put it, due to the fact that they've been subjected to explicitly objectifying abuse to a point where they'll snap at anything around them or obey any command, no matter how vulgar, to get the pain to stop. Exposure to beings of compassion (regular Pokemon in the Purification Chamber, or the good (even if not on the surface) trainer that Snagged them) is meant to reopen the Shadow Pokemon to the world in a metaphysical and/or emotional way. They are probably instructed via the Ball they are confined to that their trainer is the only person who understands them, though this compulsion is a restraining bolt to keep a Shadow Pokemon from causing harm to Cipher. This mechanism also explains why stolen Cipher tech (the Snag Machine in particular) is an absolute requirement to purify them ("While the act of stealing another trainer's Pokemon is unforgivable, there is no other way to save Shadow Pokemon"). Then again, Shadow Pokemon by themselves are inherently neither good nor evil, even if they are imbued with evil power as a weapon for Cipher. I guess the desire to use such evil power regardless of how the Pokemon was conditioned is a side-effect of The Corruption - that it empowers the trainers using them to commit evil.
- Okay, so you're saying XD explained most of this stuff. Grand. Also, last time I checked, Pokeballs (except for the anime only dark balls) contained no slave programming whatsoever. The Pokemon you catch listen to you because you proved to them that you were stronger than them in a battle, and they will listen to you so they can become stronger as well. Finally, this doesn't answer my JBM at all, because it seems that even though XD explained things a bit more, there still seems to be no basis to Shadow Pokemon being portrayed as absolutely evil Pokemon.
- "Obey any command". They don't care who is giving it.
- Also, Gameplay And Story Segregation explains away this whole problem. The story is that Shadow Pokemon will attack anything, even people. I imagine that that would be fairly difficult to deal with in-game, and was left out to keep people from whining about it being too realistic.
- It wasn't entirely left out. Attacking the trainers is part of their AI Roulette for when you tell a Shadow Pokemon in Hyper mode to use a non-shadow move. (So yeah, not something you're likely to see.)
- In the first game, the first Shadow Pokemon you come across attacks Wes, knocking him back quite a bit. Rui then warns him that Shadow Pokemon will attack anything, including people.
- About the Pokeball thing, most of the people are given their Shadow Pokemon by Cipher, meaning Cipher probably gave them the Pokeball it was contained in, and when you Snag them, it transfers them to a fresh one. It's totally possible that Team Cipher tampered with the Pokeballs to do as mentioned before.
- The trainers you snag Pokemon from almost never seem to mind that you just stole their Pokemon. They get upset over being defeated and whine about that, but never once mention their now-stolen Pokemon or seem to care. Even if Wes or Rui or Michael took the time to explain to the trainer that there was something wrong with it off screen, it's hard to believe that the trainer would take that sitting down.
- As for XD, only two non-Cipher people have Shadow Pokemon; One decides that it was too weak and doesn't care that you stole it, and the other spends the rest of the game looking for his missing Shadow Ledyba, thinking it was "cool" how it "almost" looked as though you took it... As for Colosseum, I don't know. The Retelling Of Pokemon Colosseum addressed this problem humorously.
- Well with Wes, can't explain. But in the second game, Michael is working with a big lab to do it, its possible they put out a message telling people someone would be snagging Shadow Pokemon and what happened. So perhaps that's why? Just a thought.
- How is even possible to take over the world with Shadow Pokemon? In both games, most can be beaten easily if you aren't trying to catch them.
- They're infinitely less hesitant (that is to say, not at all) about attacking people, which would be fairly helpful when any retaliation is made by the populace.
- They hit super effective against all types, so in theory the only reliable defense against a shadow Pokemon is another shadow Pokemon. You just beat them easily enough in game because they still aren't any better than the common trainers you always beat.
- All I want to know is that why did Wes betray Team Snagem in the first place? They never show us any explanation on to why he would do something like that in the beginning. You join a gang of thieves, be their top soldier, and BOOM! You blow up their HQ and steal their prized weapon? The Hell?
- He probably became disgusted with their actions, especially if he heard that they were cooperating with someone who could turn them into Shadow Pokemon.
- Bulbapedia specifically states that Snagem was a small-time petty crime organization before Cipher came.
- He probably became disgusted with their actions, especially if he heard that they were cooperating with someone who could turn them into Shadow Pokemon.
- When do Colo and XD take place anyways? Bonsly is refereed to as a new species in XD (5 years after Colo, DPPHGSS happen 3 years after RSEFRLG). Colo would need to happen before gen 3's other titles by at least two years. Are there any other implications of timelineness?
- That's the big problem. Name a single instance in any non-Orre game where Orre is mentioned.
- "Met in a distant land"? I meant more in the Orre games themselves.
- That's the big problem. Name a single instance in any non-Orre game where Orre is mentioned.
- Why does New York have species completely separate from Japan, but Arizona is littered with Japanese Pokemon?
- Orre does not have any native Pokemon, and thus imports them from Hoenn and Kanto. There probably ARE a select few native Pokemon in the game, like the Cacturne-Expy, but then again, the Unova Pokemon didn't exist yet.
- > Doesn't explain the Pokespots.
- Released Pokemon.
- Orre does not have any native Pokemon, and thus imports them from Hoenn and Kanto. There probably ARE a select few native Pokemon in the game, like the Cacturne-Expy, but then again, the Unova Pokemon didn't exist yet.
- So why is it that pretty much every shadow Pokemon you snag starts with a full shadow bar? I mean, if you're getting them from Cipher agents, sure, but do we assume that the random guys off the street never even bothered to take care of their Pokemon? Because really, that's all it takes to start reducing the bar.
- Maybe they have some type of device that can refill the bar of a used Shadow Pokemon.
- Or maybe they were starting to open up to their trainers when you nicked them. Notice how in Colosseum when battling them they use some of their non-shadow moves, which take a while to unlock when you're purifying them.
- This is what I always thought. Along with the point right below this, it would also be a convenient answer for the people who complain that the Shadow Pokémon's old trainers can use non-shadow moves...
- The shadow Pokemon might have to start all over when they get get a new trainer. To them, you're a stranger, and they can't trust you that easily.
- Well every citizen with a Shadow Pokemon got it from Cipher, meaning that Cipher could have tampered with the Poke Ball to prevent a normal trainer from purifying them. When you Snag them, they're put in a fresh one without the tampering, letting you purify them. Just a theory.
- Kind of minor, but it still bugged me, even if in an OCD way. Why is it that the developers didn't bother to make the EXP levels of your Umbreon and Espeon the same? I can't be the only person who likes their Pokemon's levels to be the same, and you have to wait until you snag your first Pokemon to make them equal!
- It's because he's been fighting with them, thus gaining experience from defeating other Trainers. Personally, I thought it added a little depth--just a little, but still.
- Robo Groudon? WHY?
- Mad Scientist.
- Rule of Cool, bro.
- Unova is considered far-away from the other Pokepan regions.. Where's Orre then? It's Arizona.
- New York might be closer to Arizona than it is to Japan, but the distance between them is still over 2,000 miles.
- So... what exactly is that white stripe on Wes' face? Birthmark? Tattoo? War-paint?
- Orre is said to have no wild Pokemon in Colosseum. So, why are the markets selling Pokeballs at all? Sure, Team Snagem would buy them, but who else?
- Based on the Outskirt Stand clerk's dialogue and fluff text elsewhere, I kind of get the impression that Orre had wild Pokémon a long time ago (but they all died out/were driven out), during which period they sold Pokeballs. By that logic, the initial batch from the Outskirt Stand is leftover stock from that period, and the clerk orders more later since he has a buyer for them.