Pokémon Sun and Moon/YMMV

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • Alternate Character Interpretation: Lusamine: an innocent victim of circumstance, the series' most vile villain to date, or a deeply flawed and awful, yet tragic individual?
    • Related to that, the fact that Nihlego's venom causes people to lose their inhibitions, stimulates excitement within their natural emotions (thus accelerating every personality trait up to their most extreme possible state and leading to impulsive, even violent behavior), enhances their native skills and allows them to act on their base desires without any filter or conscience, leaves a lot of questions as to what kind of person Lusamine truly is at her core. Was she a fundamentally good woman with disturbing, dark thoughts and character flaws that never would have materialized the way they did without the Ultra Beast's influence? Or was she always a warped, psychopathic monster whose evil ambitions were only sped along by the venom? Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon seems to clear it up with how it's story depicts Lusamine, as it strongly suggests the former.
    • On a more amusing note, the game's smattering of horrifying Pokedex entries in both the main games and their sequels have led many to believe that as opposed to being factual, it's the Rotom Dex trying to freak out the player with larger-than-life exaggerations.
  • Base Breaker: But of course. This is a Pokémon game, after all!
    • The Rotom Dex has a lot of people who don't like it, mainly due to perceiving the Dex as an annoying chatterbox who doesn't really say anything interesting. That being said, it has just as many fans who like the concept of a sentient Pokédex and find its chatter amusing and inoffensive, if nothing else.
    • All three Alolan starters are the source of many a Flame War.
      • While Rowlet and its middle stage Dartrix are fairly uncontroversial for their cute and unique designs, Decidueye is where opinions get heated. Many fans think its sudden swerve into a Badass hooded archer sort of design was a cool, if unexpected way for Rowlet to develop, but others decry it for being too big of a departure from Rowlet and Dartrix, and are disappointed that it ditched its cute, clean, classy aesthetic in favor of something a lot "edgier". This also extends to its Grass/Ghost typing: while a genuinely good typing and well-received as a result, it's not uncommon for people to find it baffling and unfitting while wishing that it stayed Grass/Flying.
      • Likewise, Litten and Torracat were (and still are) popular for their cool designs and the heavy implications that they would be a quadrupedal starter line (which are rare and in the case of the Fire starters, haven't happened at all)... so naturally, Incineroar turning out to be a biped that adopted a Heel wrestler motif right the hell out of nowhere caused a ton of uproar. It has a loud, aggressive hatedom (and Hate Dumb) that find it ugly and stupid-looking, but you'll find that it has plenty of loyal fans who think the wrestler angle is a Crazy Awesome way to take the line, and find it to be way funnier and more interesting than all the safer redesigns put forth by critics. It helps that Incineroar's dex entries stating that it intentionally riles people up while having a soft spot for kids help make it all the more likable.
      • Much like Oshawott two generations before it, Popplio found itself under fire for looking "ugly and retarded" the second it was revealed. And again, much like Oshawott, a loyal base of defenders sprung up in response to the vitriol it attracted and professed their love for its silly, adorable design. And these opinions would persist with every stage of Popplio's evolutionary line, but for wildly different reasons. Brionne's overtly girly turn won critics over thanks to being much more conventionally cute and dropping promising hints that it could evolve into the series' first Fairy starter (which it would)... while actually alienating other fans of Popplio due to it stepping away from the little sea lion's clown aesthetics and looking too girly for a Pokémon that's far more likely to be male. Primarina turning out to be even more feminine and completely replacing its clown aesthetics with those of a songstress would, unsurprisingly, leave the fanbase fractured between those who love the way the goofy little clown grew into a beautiful mermaid-sea lion, and those angrily grumbling about the wasted potential that a more clownish evolution could have had.
    • While beloved for its tragicomic lore, effectiveness as a Badass Adorable battler, and design that hits a nice balance between cute and creepy, Bewear catches flak for having a design that's often criticized for being too outlandish for a Pokémon. While it's meant to be a parody of theme park mascots, some feel that it just plain looks like a guy in a suit. Similarly, some feel that it looks more like a Fakemon than something okayed by Gamefreak.
    • Since they're yet another "Objectmon" family, Sandyghast and Pallosand were never going to be fandom darlings. Many find the concept of a living sandcastle Pokémon to be too ridiculous to take seriously while some go as far as to say that they don't even look like Pokémon at all. But what helps them avoid full-on Scrappy status is their genuinely creepy Pokédex entries that state that they're vicious, soul-sucking predators with Pallosand in particular eating its victims alive. Building off of that, the concept of a living sandcastle monster that stalks populated beaches is unique and works well for a region set in the Pokémon world's equivalent to Hawaii.
    • While Lycanroc's Midday and Midnight forms qualify for Ensemble Darkhorse status, its Dusk form introduced in Ultra Sun and Moon is a lot more divisive. Fans can't quite agree if its design does a good job at blending the traits of its other forms, or if it's a lazy orange recolor of Midday Lycanroc with a handful of Midnight's traits plastered on as an afterthought.
    • The game's Big Bad Lusamine is, as far as villains go, one of the series' best-received antagonists to date, but as a character she's rather divisive, especially the way her arc ends with the possibility of her redeeming herself being left up in the air that's torn the fanbase in two. Some believe that she's ultimately a Tragic Villain who lost sight of her good qualities due to Nihlego's influence and deserves a second chance, while others view her as an irredeemable monster for how she treated the likes of Lillie, Gladion, Type:Null, and Nebby, and wish she died or was abandoned in Ultra Space.
    • Alolan Forms in general. Are they a cool addition to the series that allows old Pokemon to feel fresh due to receiving total revamps in designs, typings, stats, and abilities? Or an unnecessary addition that wastes space that could have been used for full-fledged new Pokemon? And that's not even going into personal taste as far as designs go.
  • Common Knowledge: One of the reasons why many fans are drawn to and sympathize with Guzma is because he had an awful upbringing with a physically abusive father, and that his violent tendencies and anger issues are a result of the trauma inflicted upon him. It's definitely an interesting way to read into Guzma's psyche... but none of it is explicitly canon. Guzma definitely had a sucky childhood, but context clues indicate that it stemmed from feelings of self-hatred and dissatisfaction for being Always Second Best as well as failing his Island Challenge altogether. Similarly, his relationship with his father definitely took an ugly turn, but likely as a result of Guzma blowing his top and attacking his old man while being lectured or disciplined. For what it's worth, the vagueness surrounding his childhood does leave enough wiggle room for one to interpret it as an abusive one, but there's no hard evidence for it either way.
  • Complete Monster: In Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, Ghetsis from an Alternate Universe is made to join Team Rainbow Rocket, but he soon desires to use Giovanni as a pawn so that he can have trainers and Pokemon separated from each other in all worlds of all realities, all to consolidate more power for himself so that he may become supreme ruler above all of existence. Refusing to accept defeat when he's beaten in battle, Ghetsis backhands Lillie and threatens to murder her by his own hand if the Player Character doesn't drop their Poke' Balls and surrender to him, again showing what a dangerous individual he is and just how low he's willing to stoop in order to get what he wants. It's telling that in a game where all the Big Bads from the past 20 years of the core games series' history are featured, Ghetsis is the only one to display no redeeming qualities. the only one to not accept defeat after losing a battle to The Hero, the only one to bluntly attempt homicide on an innocent child, and the only one to be purely self-serving in his lust for power.
  • Demonic Spiders: Thanks to the S.O.S mechanic, just about any wild Pokemon has the potential to become this: at any point in a battle, a Pokemon that has not been knocked out can call an ally Pokemon for help, which leaves your Pokemon on the field to fend for itself against two Pokemon at once. Even worse is that it's all too common for the survivor of the pair to summon another ally as soon as their backup dies, leading to what can be a cycle of frustration and annoyance to those looking to catch a tough rare Pokemon. And may god have mercy on any Nuzlockers who run afoul of this mechanic.
  • Draco in Leather Pants: Guzma. Fangirls have penned a truckload of fanfics that portray him as little more than a troubled, brooding, goofy "sadboi" and downplay the fact that as goofy as he is, and as ineffective as Team Skull is, he's still a violent, dangerous thug who willingly helps Lusamine with the nastier aspects of her master plan.
  • Ensemble Darkhorse: Despite her minor role in the grand scheme of things, Wicke of the Aether Foundation received an explosion of fanart from people who loved her for being simultaneously adorable and attractive. It helps that in the game proper, she's basically the Aether Foundation's Token Good Teammate.
    • Kahunas Olivia and Nanu were huge hits with the fanbase: Olivia for being cool and drop dead gorgeous, and Nanu for his hilariously blunt dialogue and depressed attitude coupled with his love of cats. The fact that the former is the series' first Rock-type Elite Four member and the latter is technically the franchise's first Dark-type Gym leader (before Piers in Sword and Shield became a proper example) are other points in their favor.
    • As far as Trial Captains go, you've got the Grass/Fire/Water trio of Mallow, Kiawe, and Lana from Akala Island, as well as Acerola of Ula'ula Island. In Mallow and Kiawe's case, they're associated with some of the game's funniest moments, and are attractive on top of that. Lana and Acerola, on the other hand, are Moe incarnate, with Lana being a quirky Cloudcuckoolander Trickster Mentor while Acerola's status as an Elite Four member gives her some serious Badass Adorable credentials.
    • Hiker David's hilarious photobombing during Kiawe's trial helped an otherwise run-of-the-mill generic trainer stand out as one of the funniest characters in the game.
    • As far as Pokémon go, Mimikyu is considered to be one of the Alola dex's highlights thanks to its creepy, yet adorable design, and surprisingly woobielicious backstory. It certainly helps that it's actually really good in battle, to the point that Totem Mimikyu is That One Boss while any Mimikyu you use are bound to be a Game Breaker thanks to their Ghost/Fairy STAB, wide movepool, and the godsend that is its Disguise ability.
    • Despite being a bit divisive due to being yet another Normal/Flying early route bird that also looks nothing like its pre-evolutions, Toucannon is still a popular Pokémon thanks to the hilarious, perpetual state of anger that it's seemingly stuck in, with pairs surprisingly well with its cheap, crappy attacking animations.
    • The Rockruff line in general, due to Rockruff itself being an adorable little puppy, and its evolutions being a badass wolf and badass werewolf respectively.
    • As far as Alolan forms go, Alolan Raichu, Alolan Marowak, Alolan Ninetales, Alolan Exeggutor, and Alolan Dugtrio are probably the biggest darkhorses. Alolan Marowak has an awesome fire-dancer design and proves to be reliable in-game and in competitive play. Alolan Raichu is not only adorable, but has an interesting typing and addresses fan demands for Gamefreak to give the often-neglected Raichu some much needed love. Alolan Ninetales is breathtakingly beautiful, and Alolan Exeggutor and Dugtrio manage to be so ridiculous-looking that they loop around to being hilariously awesome in the fandom's eyes.
    • Mudbray and Mudsdale, its evolution: Mudbray for being Ugly Cute, Mudsdale for being a big Badass horse, and both for being god-tier battlers that will mercilessly trample damn-near everything they fight under their hooves.
    • Salazzle and Tsareena for being the region's obligatory "Waifumon", with the former's seductive Femme Fatale design and the latter's dominatrix design making them bonafide Memetic Sex Goddesses. They're also fairly capable battlers that are easy to slot into your team, and synergize well with Primarina and Incineroar.
  • Evil Is Cool: Despite being the leader of a bunch of thugs who do little more than annoy and frustrate Alola's residents, Guzma manages to be among the series' best-received villains to date due to his larger-than-life personality, hilariously blunt dialogue, and surprisingly tragic backstory and sympathetic qualities. He also gets points for being an evil team leader who uses an all-Bug type team.
    • Similarly, Guzma's fellow villain Lusamine of the Aether Foundation is praised for her downright chilling portrayal as a legitimately insane and unhinged individual, whose twisted views of love and actions that are counterproductive to her stated intentions manage to make her creepy as hell, yet oh-so-fun to watch.
  • Evil Is Sexy: Plumeria of Team Skull. Her skimpy outfit and eye-catching tattoo/body paint that continues down past the waistband of her pants do a lot to make her the sexiest admin this side of ORAS Shelly.
    • The same goes with Lusamine, who manages to look inhumanly gorgeous and youthful for a woman in her forties and a mother of two kids to boot. This look is used to create an Uncanny Valley effect when Lusamine's madness gets revealed and her pretty face starts contorting with Slasher Smiles and deranged looks of rage.
  • Jerkass Woobie: Under his hard, violent street thug persona, Guzma is a surprisingly vulnerable individual. During his childhood he failed his Island Challenge, and that, combined with an unhappy childhood that may or may not have been abusive and an inability to ever truly excel on a competitive front led to Guzma developing a sense of self hatred and obsessive desire to assert some form of greatness and obtain an adult's approval. When you beat him in a Pokémon battle, it's hard not to feel bad when he totally melts down and starts berating himself for failing.
    • And underneath the self-absorbed narcissism, cold-blooded sadism, and psychotic, abusive mentality, Lusamine is a broken individual who due to losing her beloved husband, being unable to come to terms with her grief properly or endure the stress of having to raise a family all on her own, obsessing over the Ultra Beasts and Ultra Wormholes, and even exposing herself to the dangerously potent toxins of an Ultra Beast, fell into a self-destructive spiral that warped her from a caring mother into an evil, selfish, abusive maniac who's single-mindedly obsessed with living in Ultra Space and showering the Beasts who dwell there with her "love", consequences to all others, even her own children, be damned. She initially truly did love her children but ended up driving them both away from her due to her own terrible decisions and poor treatment of them and others, and rather than see her own failings and take responsibility, she feels betrayed, abandoned, increasingly alone, and spiraling further into madness. Granted, her actions and attitude can make it very hard to feel sympathetic towards her plight, but at least there's something there to sympathize with.
      • Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon removes the part about her being intoxicated by Nihilego, thus her motives are completely different, as she wants to go through the Ultra Wormhole to capture or defeat Necrozma and save the light of Alola for all the Pokemon and people she cares about, even the two children she'd coldly disowned. She becomes even more of this trope here when considering that she shoulders so much responsibility upon herself as a protector and "mother" to all of Alola's Pokemon due to feeling she has to live up to the expectations of her put upon her by her father's legacy, and her desire to brave the Ultra Wormhole and face Necrozma comes from her grief over her lost husband. She's projecting all of her issues onto the Necrozma situation and hopes that by conquering and mastering Necrozma, she can conquer and master her own grief and can finally have peace of mind. The worst part? She still ends up failing.
  • Magnificent Bastard: The Big Bad, Lusamine, may be among the most (if not the most) successful and manipulative villains in the main series. Despite being completely insane, she still manages to successfully run the Aether Foundation by putting on the charade of still being a loving and caring person, and has the entirety of it at her fingertips, the majority of whom do not even know her true intentions. Meanwhile, she secretly freezes dozens of rescued Pokémon and keeps them in her hidden chamber as decorations, and manipulates Guzma and the rest of Team Skull into doing her bidding (meaning that she controls two different organizations at once). She oversaw the project to create Type: Full, a Pokémon intended to emulate Arceus itself, and even though her children successfully managed to escape her, she still indirectly controlled their lives to such an extent that they were in no position to stop her. She nearly kills Nebby in order to open the wormholes, successfully releases at least ten dangerous Ultra Beasts all over Alola, brings Guzma into the wormhole along with herself in order to escape this world, and now that she has what she wants, discards him like a used toy once they arrive in Ultra Space, trapping him for an indefinite time. Virtually the only reason that she managed to be defeated is due to Lillie's newfound determination and your prowess as a trainer, and even when you both confront her, she makes her last stand by fusing with a Nihilego and attempting to kill her own daughter.
    • In Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, Lusamine starts off as one by doing everything she did in Sun and Moon up to the point of finally capturing Nebby when she has Lillie abducted, only this time she does it all for the ends of opening a single Ultra Wormhole so that she can capture/defeat Necrozma in Ultra Space and save Alola's light, and she takes advantage of the Ultra Recon Squad by making them believe that she's going to use a different means to stop Necrozma when she actually intends on dealing with the beast all by herself for her own personal, more self-centered reasons. However, her magnificence takes a nosedive when it becomes clear that she's completely out of her element and flees to take on Necrozma despite the Ultra Recon Squad's warnings, only to have it backfire on her in a truly spectacular manner, complete with Dulse/Phyco telling her off for being so arrogant. It's an interesting case of how she genuinely qualifies while being batshit insane, yet subverting this trope when she's completely in her right mind due to Smug Snake tendencies that she can't quite get under control.
    • Giovanni in the postgame RR Episode of USUM. He bands together other evil team leaders from other realities all under the banner of Team Rainbow Rocket, successfully has his team take over Aether Paradise, transforms it into his team's new base, and opens up an extra large Ultra Wormhole in hopes of bringing out Ultra Beasts that he can use to invade and conquer all other worlds. He even abducts Lusamine and knocks her unconscious for the duration of the takeover. When battled, it's revealed that this version of Giovanni managed to succeed in controlling Mewtwo and keeping it in a Master Ball, and he proves to be a Graceful Loser while also managing to escape, still plotting to commit more evil in some other unsuspecting world.
    • Ghetsis makes an admirable attempt at being this once more, planning to manipulate Giovanni into being his "king" front-man just like he did with N, and be the power behind the throne in all universes. The fact that Giovanni is now using a castle motif for his base shows that Ghetsis may have already begun to influence him. But Ghetsis can't quite reach the finish line due to having the Villainous Breakdown he avoided having in the reality from which he hails from, and for promptly being kicked back to his version of Unova by Colress.
  • Moral Event Horizon: Lusamine crosses this when she tortures the adorable Cosmog Nebby to a state of near-death by charging the crate it's in with electricity and using its entire body to open up several Ultra Wormholes, complete with a psychotic grin on her face. It's this moment alone that causes many players to view her as being just as twisted as Ghetsis, Freudian Excuse be damned.
    • This one gets lessened in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, in which Lusamine charges the crate only with enough voltage to use Nebby's body for opening up a single Ultra Wormhole to Ultra Space, which she opens in order to go face Necrozma and save Alola's light and doesn't do it in a cruel, sadistic fashion. It still ends up triggering a pain-stricken evolution for Cosmog into Cosmoem and she still smiles about it, but the damage is less critical, Lusamine's smile comes from a smug sense of feeling that she's entirely in the right, and the rest of Lusamine's original Moral Event Horizon (opening up wormholes all over Alola to let out Ultra Beasts) is given to Necrozma later on in the game.
    • In the eyes of a good number of fans though, Lusamine's treatment of Lillie and Gladion tends to be viewed as this due to its disturbingly realistic portrayal of emotional and mental abuse that can hit home for those abused as children. It was meant to be a major Kick the Dog to demonstrate how warped and severely disengaged with reality Lusamine was, but it might have worked a little too well. See Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
    • During the postgame, Lysandre tries to recreate the climax of X and Y by creating another version of the Ultimate Weapon and having it nuke your world into oblivion. Even worse, he tricks you into activating it! Thankfully, however, you turn off the weapon after defeating him.
    • Fellow Rainbow Rocket member Ghetsis gets a crossing of his own by attacking and attempting to kill Lillie, a young girl when you defeat him! Even worse is that he does this despite all of his Pokémon being knocked out, meaning that murdering a child with his bare hands is something that he's depraved enough to try.
    • Hell, just about everyone in Rainbow Rocket has arguably crossed the MEH offscreen. After all, each and every one of them is an evil team leader who succeeded with their evil plans, meaning that Archie and Maxie destroyed Hoenn thanks to Kyogre and Groudon running wild (albeit, this was unintentional), Cyrus destroyed the universe and replaced it with a world without spirit, Ghetsis conquered Unova and likely killed N after he outlived his usefulness, and Lysandre destroyed his world and killed everyone not affiliated with Team Flare.
    • Even Faba crosses it in the Ultra games by betraying his own organization so he could cozy up with Rainbow Rocket. Even worse is his selfish reasons for doing so: he just wanted to make a name for himself by joining what he thought was an even more powerful group.
  • Rescued From the Scrappy Heap: When all the previous evil team leaders returned to form Team Rainbow Rocket in Ultra Sun and Moon, many fans were surprised to see Lysandre, universally considered to be one of the series' weaker villains, end up being one of the Rainbow Rocket Episode's biggest highlights. While it's admittedly just window dressing to set the scene, him forcing you to activate a recreated Ultimate Weapon adds a delicious amount of tension to his already-difficult fight. Not only that, but the fact that he destroyed the world he hails from and is ready to do it all over again with a deranged smile on his face does a great job at showing just how batshit insane he is, while also helping him stand out as a proper Foil to Cyrus as opposed to a poorly-written copy.
  • Sequel Difficulty Drop: According to some fans, these games are guilty of having "too much handholding," just like X and Y before them as well as the Let's Go games and Sword and Shield afterwards. The newly-buffed EXP Share returns from X and Y, complete with giving your entire party a ton of EXP and leaving them stupidly overleveled as well as being on by default. Also, many trainers rarely use more than three Pokémon (and often with incomplete movesets, at that), and the advent of Z moves mean that your Pokémon have a stupidly powerful super move that they can pop at any time as a sort of "I win" button. But with that being said, there are many who disagree due to the belief that these games offer some of the toughest boss fights in the franchise thanks to how the Totem Pokémon fight. And Ultra Necrozma in the remakes is even more ridiculous.
  • That One Boss: A lot of the Totem Pokémon count. Highlights include Totem Araquanid for having insane type coverage despite being the very second Totem Pokémon in the Ultra games, Totem Lurantis for being a terrifying Sun sweeper backed up by minions that perfectly cover her weaknesses, and Totem Mimikyu for obscene strength and ability that nullifies exactly one attack.
  • They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Despite all the hype they got during the pre-release period, Alolan Forms weren't utilized to anywhere near the extent they could have been, with only a handful of Pokemon families getting Alolan variants that were relegated solely to Kanto Pokemon to boot. Considering the huge amount of of fan-made Alolan forms for all sorts of Pokemon, there's a ton of potential that Gamefreak could have tapped into if they tried. But tragically, nothing much was done with it and in Ultra Sun and Moon, absolutely no new Alolan Forms were added. Wisely, while Gamefreak would introduce even less regional variants in many games going forward, they also took attention away from them so as not to hype up players too much (while doing interesting things with the new variants they did introduce, such as new/exclusive evolutions).
    • Among the Elite Four, Kahili is the only character who the player never interacted with beforehand, leading to her feeling a lot less developed than the others. Ultra Sun and Moon are a little better about this by having her meet the player once they grab the Flyinium Z, but even then, it's a rare and super brief encounter.
  • Tier-Induced Scrappy: Crabrawler and its evolution Crabominable catch a lot of flack for being what are widely considered to be among the worst Pokemon to use in-game. While not terrible, they suffer from two major drawbacks: one being that Crabrawler cannot evolve until it reaches Mt. Lanakila... which is at the very end of the game, meaning that you have to lug around an unevolved Pokemon with middling stats through your Island Challenge, where it has a really hard time keeping up with all the powerful Pokemon that pop up near the end. And the other drawback is that as a Crabominable, its slow speed and partial Ice typing do it no favors on a defensive front, and the only major opponents it can fight (The Elite Four and Champion) will, more often than not, stomp it into the dirt thanks to a ton of them having attacks and/or typings that completely screw it over.
  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Considering her tragic backstory of having gone mad with grief due to losing her husband and being exposed to Nihilego's toxins, as well as a hinted-at possible redemption, it's clear that Game Freak intended Lusamine to come off as a disturbing and contemptible, yet ultimately sympathetic villain who still has a shot at being a good person. However, a lot of fans felt that the attempts at making her sympathetic fell flat due to the ridiculously cruel and sociopathic extremes she took her villainy to, and how she always maintained a It's All About Me and Never My Fault attitude even while claiming to be acting out of "love." Not helping matters at all is her chillingly realistic portrayal of an abusive parent, her more sympathetic traits being relegated to post-game backstory, and the revelation that Nihilego venom doesn't brainwash so much as it amplifies and enhances the natural traits of the venom's host.
    • It seems that Game Freak themselves are aware of this, since in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, they tried to make her more sympathetic by having her act less overtly vile and cruel. However, many players feel that she still runs afoul of this territory since she's still guilty of many of the same crimes as she was in the original games, but comes across as worse since she has even less of an excuse for committing them due to being in her right mind.
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