Redwall/YMMV

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.

"D'you see that sword? Did you know that it has the power to make pretty hare maidens happy?"

    • The very same book also had this comment, after Log-a-Log shot an arrow into Skaup's paw. There's nothing weird about it, except the comment was "ribald." Look up the word ribald. Now read this comment and you'll find it to be strange...

"Be sure t'bring that arrow with ye, 'twas a good shaft!"

  • Adorable Evil Minions: If you like rats and mustelids, they can induce a bad case of misplaced squeeing.
  • Alas, Poor Scrappy: Ovus, and to a lesser extent Prince Bladd. Scummy even wrote a poem/eulogy mourning him and his late captain.
  • Alas, Poor Villain: Even if he was a Complete Monster, the way Ungatt Trunn died was absolutely pitiful and painful to read about. Not even he deserved such a cruel death, especially when you look at some other Redwall villains, like Badrang, Mokkan and Vilu Daskar.
  • Alternative Character Interpretation: So, was Veil Evil All Along, or was he driven to evil as a result of a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy and the self-righteous prejudice of the Abbeydwellers, only to rise above his circumstances to make a Heroic Sacrifice?
  • Angst? What Angst?:
    • One season old babes get in fights and kill other beasts. Young teenagers watch close friends die, sometimes in very horrible ways. Salamandastron is a particularly fun case: Samkim stumbles upon a dead Brother Hal, then is accused of murdering him, and just days later sees several shrews and Spriggat partially eaten by a giant snake. On the Western Shore, a surly teenager is almost eaten alive by reptiles after seeing that her adoptive father is about to be attacked by a military force that vastly outmatches him. To the north, a young otter and a Dibbun are attacked by crows who'd quite like to eat them alive, and is so vastly outnumbered that the next charge will doom him. Back at the Abbey, everyone is dying of the plague. No Angst!
    • Characters tend to cheer up instantly. In Loamhedge, when Martha learns to walk, she is sad because Bragoon and Saro have risked their lives for no reason. When told she would not have managed if they had been there, she replies: "Oh yes. What a silly creature I am." That said, the way that line is acted in the unabridged, full cast audio book, it came across more as her still being upset but accepting someone trying to make her feel better by saying that.
    • One of the most jarring examples is in Taggerung when the Deyna/Tagg's mother and sister are helping to organize a feast and contest very soon after the murder and disappearance of their dearest loved ones.
      • Subverted later on though. They try to get past their disappearance, but Deyna's mother ends up breaking down and crying, and Mhera wasn't doing much better.
    • Dauncey's death in Rakkety Tamm and Asio's death in Eulalia! segway immediately into what's for lunch that day. Asio's is especially jarring.
    • Might be a case of Deliberate Values Dissonance: keep in mind that the death rate in Mossflower is much, much higher than in 21st-century Western Real World societies, so they get used to it quickly, and while they don't seem to have a God as such they're a lot more certain of an afterlife than many people here are.
  • Ambiguously Gay: See Ho Yay.
  • Anticlimax Boss: Pretty much every fight between the protagonist and the Big Bad that's a Curb Stomp Battle. It is far easier to list the major villains who weren't this and put up a good fight or managed to take someone with them in the final battle: Cluny the Scourge, Queen Tsarmina, Ferahgo the Assassin, Ungatt Trunn, Riggu Fells, Gulo the Savage, Zwilt the Shade, and a couple of vipers. Pretty much everyone else were only dangerous as army commanders at best.
    • Strangely averted with Badrang in the TV series. The battle between him and Martin was somewhat longer and more epic than in the book.
  • Anti-Villain: Asmodeus is one. Yes, he's a Hero-Killer and a source of Nightmare Fuel, but he isn't really evil, he just eats rodents like any snake would to survive.
  • Ass Pull: Some of the Big Damn Heroes moments. One of the biggest ones occurs in Marlfox when Song and Mighty Megraw save Burble, Dann and Dippler from bloodthirsty reptiles. What makes it an ass pull is that somehow, Song found her long lost grandfather and her long lost aunt AND it turns out that her grandfather had raised a small group of hedgehog warriors who managed to kill all the reptiles. AND they all managed to find and practically patch up the Swallow, even though it almost split in two after plunging down the waterfall. This all happened in about a day by the way.
    • There's an even bigger one at the end of Taggerung. Several otters and Redwallers are about to get into an epic and badass battle with the entire Juskabor clan (which was about three hundred soldiers). Suddenly, Lord Russano conveniently shows up to visit Lady Cregga Red Eyes' grave, and is accompanied with nearly one thousand Long Patrol hares. Ruggan Bor surrenders almost immediately, and the badger forces his entire clan to crawl away from Redwall in shame.
    • Veil's death in Outcast, which came out of nowhere. It seemed like that was thrown in there just...because. And it falls into Fridge Logic, since Veil Took The Spear for somebeast he had no problem trapping inside of a cave and leaving to die just a few chapters earlier, and he definitely did not show a change in attitude between then and his Heroic Sacrifice.
  • Base Breaker: Veil Sixclaw from Outcast, so very much. Some people sympathize with him because he's a Jerkass Woobie with a tragic backstory who always falls victim to Fantastic Racism by the Redwallers. Others don't give a shit, thought he had an unjustified Freudian Excuse, and considered his subplot to be an absolute waste. Some would even go as far as saying he ruined the entire book.
    • Felldoh. On one hand, he took the Leeroy Jenkins route and gradually went from your everyday smart protagonist to a virtually emotionless Sociopathic Hero who didn't care how many had to die in order to stop Badrang. But on the other hand, he's badass, courageous, and had the balls to attack Badrang by himself and humiliate him in front of his entire army by whipping him like a slave. And unlike Martin, Felldoh didn't waste his time dealing with a bunch of Wacky Wayside Tribes. Killing Druwp certainly helped in his favors as well.
    • Horty is either a hilarious Butt Monkey who has his occasional badass moments, or he's a whiny, annoying hare.
  • Broken Aesop:
    • Dear god, the ending of Outcast. Bryony spends the entire book insisting that Veil is not pure evil, and then when he gives his life to save her, she goes back to the Abbey and says that everyone was right, she was wrong, and the world is better off without Veil... and then they make her the Abbess?
    • Part 3 of Loamhedge is just as bad. It gives us two broken aesops. The first is that being a Handicapped Badass is useless since you can earn the gift of walking by growing a pair of balls and overcoming your "lack of willpower". The second is that you shouldn't give a damn about two characters who venture across the country and try to cure you of your paralysis, even if their quest turns out to be pointless due to the first broken aesop and they end up sacrificing themselves for reasons that could've easily been prevented.
    • It must be nice to be a woodlander in the later books. Basically, as long as they don't intentionally kill any of the "goodbeasts", (vermin are fine, as they would have eventually "tortured, bullied, and/or murdered" some "peace loving" creature somewhere) they can do absolutely anything they want. This includes lying, cheating, and stealing. The biggest example would probably be Yoofus Lightpaw in Rakkety Tam, who steals any number of important items, but is never given more than a slap on the wrist and a good natured head-shaking, and is beloved by all the characters. Didn't this series used to be about a religious order of mice who were renowned for offering aid to anyone, even predators?
  • Cargo Ship: Gabool/Bell. No, really, he does the I Have You Now, My Pretty routine with it and actually licks it.
  • Crazy Awesome: Cuthbert Blanedale Frunk, a hare with Multiple Personality Disorder in High Rhulain. On the flipside, he's also a Sociopathic Hero with a pretty tragic backstory.
  • Complete Monster: Now with its own page. The series has THAT MANY.
  • Crowning Moment of Heartwarming: Everything involving Blaggut.
  • Does This Remind You of Anything?: It's called Redwall. Everyone who lives there works together, without monetary reward, for the good of the community as a whole. Everyone is said to be equal, nobody is more important than anyone else, and everyone eats together. On the other hand, the villains and mooks are violent, dirty, uneducated and amoral at best, working for pay and/or the rewards of battle... gee, would you look at that.
  • Ending Fatigue: The Legend of Luke's climax came at the end of Part 2, making the five remaining chapters a bit hard to finish.
    • Taggerung could've ended in multiple areas, especially when Deyna returned to Redwall safe and sound. It doesn't.
  • Ensemble Darkhorse:
    • In the earlier books when the supporting villains (e.g. Redtooth and Cheesethief from Redwall) got character development, many of them ended up popular with fans.
    • After The Sable Quean, Zwilt the Shade may well fit in this trope.
    • There's also Romsca (Pearls of Lutra), Mariel (Mariel of Redwall), and Sister May (Mattimeo).
    • Vallug Bowbeast and his team of vermin from Taggerung. This does not include Gruven.
    • Constance is rather popular in the TV series. Just look at all those comments on YouTube implying her as a Memetic Badass.
  • Fashion Victim Villain: Ublaz embodies this trope.
  • Freud Was Right: The swords-and-roses motifs which recur throughout the series. Also, the scene in Doomwyte where a very large blind snake is trapped in a tunnel.
  • Ho Yay: So much that it has its own page.
  • Jerkass Woobie: Veil is a horrible child even before he starts on the attempted murder, but given the circumstances it's hard to blame him.
  • Jumping the Shark:
    • Some fans think the series has gone downhill, others think it's still good.
    • It seems likely the target audience merely changed to a group a few years younger. This would explain why there's a good number of people who call themselves "former Redwall fans who still like the older books".
    • Right around Lord Brocktree, the target audience age stayed the same and you grew out of it old enough to notice the Fridge Logic.
    • Jacques' questionable grasp on continuity probably doesn't help.
    • Neither does the incessant amount of Black and White Morality and Exclusively Evil that rubbed some people the wrong way.
    • At some point, Redwall subplots were forced into each book, and many of them had little or no relation to the main plot.
  • Kick the Dog: Many villains do it a few times per book, but even good guys aren't immune from time to time.
  • Magnificent Bastard: Rasconza.
  • Mary Sue:
    • Tiria of High Rhulain, plus the Tabura and Salixia in Eulalia!. Could be argued that just about every main character is one to a greater or lesser degree, mostly due to the improbable speed with which the swordbearers learn to use the Sword of Martin.
    • Not just main characters. Almost by definition, every goodbeast worth their name is a Purity Sue. Exceptions can be counted on one paw.
    • Trimp in Legend of Luke eats, sleeps, and breathes this trope.
    • Rose. Bless her heart, but Rose.
  • Most Fanfic Writers Are Girls: Subverted; this fandom includes a high proportion of males. (including the notoriously hilarious probable Troll Ultamite Nineball).
  • Paranoia Fuel: In Loamhedge, Martin's spirit tells Martha that Bragoon and Saro need to head to Loamhedge in order to find something that'll make her walk again. But in Part 3 of the book, Martha learns to walk on her own and Bragoon and Saro end up sacrificing their lives, which implies that Martin had Bragoon and Saro sent on a suicide mission. Makes you wonder now, don't it?
  • Periphery Demographic: During the prime of the series, a significant percentage of its fans were high school and college age, where the intended demographic was much younger.
  • Replacement Scrappy: Gruven replaces Sawney Rath as the Big Bad in Taggerung. He did a horrible job.
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: See the Fleetscut section below to see how he saved himself.
    • Horty zigzagged this trope constantly. Everytime he got out the heap, he threw himself back in with his whining. But by the end of Loamhedge, he finally gets (and stays) out of the heap when he and Bragoon take on several of Kharanjul's horde back to back.
  • The Scrappy: Mostly residing in Triss. Scarum and Prince Bladd bathe in this trope.
    • Veil Sixclaw was an in-universe example, for very good reasons. Even after he sacrificed himself to save Bryony, many Redwallers still believed that wasn't enough to make up for all his heinous crimes (although many readers would disagree).
    • Fleetscut was leaning towards becoming one with his constant whining about his hunger and being nothing but The Load to Jukka's tribe. He saved himself when he gave a well-deserved "The Reason You Suck" Speech to Jukka, and from that point on he only got better.
    • Gruven. That is all.
    • Jeg. You know that annoying kid you've ran into that you just wanna spank really hard, but can't because he or she will go whining to his or her parents? Picture that same kid as a smelly rat who likes to whack animals with a stick, and you've got Jeg.
    • Tugga Bruster, your everyday Jerkass. You know you're a Scrappy if your own son doesn't miss you and wants to forget you ever existed after you die.
  • Tastes Like Diabetes: Where to start...
    • OK, so earlier in the series, good guys had real names (Constance, Ambrose, Jess, etc...), and bad guys had, er, descriptive names (Redtooth, Darkclaw). Now, they tend to have nonsensical cartoony cutesypoo names like Dimp, Laggle, Flim, Dawble, Nobbo...
    • Dibbuns in general. OK, Baby Rollo was funny. So were Bagg, Runn and Grubb. But as Jacques ran out of characters the dibbuns devolved into a sort of honey-sweetened sugarbowl hivemind. They've got them doing coordinated song and dance routines. And don't even get started on "Dibbuns Against Bedtime".
    • DAB was a real internet fan club long before it showed up in the books, so don't blame BJ for that one.
    • Let 'em sing and dance, as long as they drop that horrible "awight den, me go bang" style of talking. And being given the prize in nearly every competition that's held, whether or not they actually won.
    • Poems and riddles got devolved into guess-the-letter games. "My fifth is in pop but not pip" indeed.
    • Redwall Abbey itself. The first book rather hinted that it was actually a religious order. Its use has slowly expanded until the point where pretty much every good guy either lives there or comes to live there, and just about everything is always perfect.
  • Too Cool to Live: Finnbarr Galedeep.
  • Toy Ship: Canon example - Word of God is that Matthias and Cornflower were about thirteen during the Redwall time period, and they married at the end of the book. And had a kid by sixteen, probably a season earlier.
  • Trapped by Mountain Lions: If a novel doesn't involve the Big Bad trying to take over Redwall, but there is still a Redwall subplot involved, it probably falls under this trope. Some examples include...
    • The Ironbeak subplot in Mattimeo, which has nothing to do with Matthias' journey to rescue Mattimeo and slay Slagar.
    • The Dryditch Fever subplot in Salamandastron.
    • The Slipp and Blaggut subplot in The Bellmaker. But since this subplot involves Blaggut, the first vermin who isn't truly evil or a Jerkass, you'll probably find yourself drawn into it.
    • Depending on how you feel about him, Veil Sixclaw's entire subplot from Outcast of Redwall is this.
    • Inverted in The Legend of Luke. It is because of the Wacky Wayside Tribe subplots that the novel didn't become extremely short and/or boring.
  • Ugly Cute: Many fans prefer the vermin characters. Somewhat inevitable when your ugly, wicked villains look like this.
  • Unfortunate Implications:
    • For starters, the use of Exclusively Evil and You No Take Candle. Then there's a character who overcomes being confined to a wheelchair and blames it on her lack of willpower. This was semi-justified by the fact that this was actually a serious psychosomatic illness (not helped by the fact that she was carried on her grandmother's back for an impossibly long time) where the root problem was eventually removed. It's still phrased in a somewhat unfortunate way...
    • Also, the treatment of many foxes as Roma, and of course not one of them can be trusted.
  • Villain Decay: Korvus Skurr. At the start of Doomwyte, he actually comes across as a competent and frightening Big Bad. But as the novel progresses, he slowly starts to lose control over his own army (due to his reckless decision to hire a blind adder as an instrument for fear against the Redwallers), and eventually he devolves into a Smug Snake.
  • What an Idiot!: Really, Malbun, you and Crikulus should've known better than to leave Redwall in the middle of the night without telling anybody and without taking any sort of weapon along with you.
    • Going along with a very old and nearly blind red kite to try and kill three adders? Wise decision, Ovus.
  • What Do You Mean It's for Kids?: A series about anthropomorphic mice, rats, etc., that are at war. And not one that will be solved peacefully...
    • Oh yeah, and Lord Stonepaw and Brocktree were doing drugs.
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