Return of the Jedi/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • Plenty of stuff about the Special Edition has been complained about ad nauseam, but I'd like to throw in that the scene of the people on Coruscant celebrating the end of the Empire is just plain wrong. While it's understandable for Lucas to want to show everyone a Happily Ever After ending, the truth is that there's absolutely no way that the capital of the freaking Empire would behave that way. There would be an absolute lockdown by the Imperial troops at best, massive disruption and riots at the very worst. The time period between the Emperor's death and the takeover of power by the Rebellion would be one of chaos, not partying.
    • Plus there's no way in heck news could travel *that fast* to the Galactic core from a world out in the middle of nowhere, even with the technology used in the SW universe.
    • EU-Canonically, that's pretty much what happened. The happy partying was more rioty in other areas we didn't see, and practically the moment we stopped seeing the Coruscant Uprising, Stormtroopers and other Imperial forces moved in and brutally put down the celebrations and riots.
      • Specifically, in the X Wing Series this is Castin Donn's greatest failure. His Rebel cell, on receiving the signal broadcast of the events of Endor, immediately hacked public viewscreens and displayed it. It was a counter to the propaganda and coverups they knew would happen immediately. The public went insane, and in one plaza the crowd pulled down a statue of the Emperor... and almost immediately stormtroopers came and fired into the crowd. Castin saved a baby whose mother had been shot before he could be trampled.
    • In response to the orignal poster's issue with the capital of the Empire behaving that way, they aren't happy about being that. They were the capital of the far nicer Republic less than a lifetime ago.
      • For a Real Life comparison, think Berlin 1990 rather than Berlin 1945.
  • 3PO, R2, and Luke have to knock on the huge door, get past the guards and the Major Domo to talk to Jabba. But Leia (as the bounty hunter) and Chewie on a Chain come in the side door, with a freakin' THERMAL DETONATOR?! And Jabba doesn't wonder how they got in there?
    • Bounty hunters and the like are Jabba's major clientele, so it's not surprising at all that a bounty hunter could get in. She might have been impersonating a regular at the place. Jabba doesn't wonder "how they got in there" because bounty hunters go in and out.
    • Also, Leia was bringing in Chewie- in other words, someone Jabba had placed a major bounty on. Of course Jabba's going to want to see her, so that probably smoothed things over considerably.
  • The elite rebel commando unit headed by Han is making their way across the forest moon of Endor. They're going quietly in their camouflage gear. With an uncamouflaged bright, shiny gold robot. Smart.
    • One has to wonder how R2-D2 managed to get around. He's not exactly an all-terrain vehicle.
      • In Heir to the Empire" Luke remarks that you'd be surprised how far that little droid can get on his own.
  • Why did Vader pick up Palpatine instead of breaking his neck with his one good hand? If he had enough time to pick him up then he had enough time to get a good grip around his neck and snap it. The Emperor dies and Vader gets to live.
    • Not enough time, maybe? Plus, the prophecy stated "Balance to the Force" which to the Jedi meant no Sith. Vader was a Sith, ergo he had to kill himself as well. It's Redemption Equals Death.
    • Word of God and other materials confirm that Vader was trying to throw himself down the shaft and grabbed Palatine in a Taking You with Me ploy but didn't quite have the strength to make it over than railing.
    • His son was being fried in front of his eyes, so he had to make a decision right then and there. He didn't have time to think things through, so he chose and chose poorly.
  • The Emperor says that the plans to the second death star were leaked intentionally, to lure the rebels in a Batman Gambit and crush them. But in the end, Lando manages to destroy it without problems. If the plans were leaked intentionally, why didn't he leaked forged plans ? What kind of an idiot would show their opponent their true weakness when they can just as well lure them into attacking the strong points?
    • The Emperor was clearly overconfident, and thought that the Rebels would never actually get a shot at the Death Star. The plan entailed never letting the shield go down after all.
    • The "plans" that were leaked weren't the schematics for the Death Star, it was the location and the fact the the Emperor himself would be there.
      • Eh, even if the plans were forged it's not like the Rebels weren't going to not be able to work out the basic method of 'fly into open core, shoot core."
        • Yeah, but it would have taken them a while to find a convenient shaft on a station the size of a moon if they didn't know exactly where they were.
        • The superstructure was mostly open. Probably any shaft would have sufficed. And the second Death Star was basically a ballooned up version of the first, the plans for which the Rebels already had.
  • Shouldn't the presence of the Executor have tipped the Tydirium crew off that the Empire was waiting for them? It was only the biggest, most powerful thing in the Imperial fleet that could still get away with being called a ship, and it's being there doesn't put any crimp in their plans?
    • Pay attention to the briefing. One of the reasons they give for why this is the perfect time to strike is because they know the Emperor himself is going to be there. And the Executor is the Emperor's flagship. Of course it's going to be there.
      • Eh, the Executor's nothing special. (And it's Vader's flagship, not the Emperor's.) "There're a lot of command ships." Yes, General Solo, there are.
    • That's even more confusing. Wouldn't it follow that the Emperor would bring substantial backup to protect a supposedly incomplete battle station? I mean, he did, but it never occurred to the Rebels that he'd secretly be rollin' deep?
        • The LOCATION is secret, and the new Death Star is almost complete; also you have Vader in the introductory scene making Jarjarrod shit his pants by casually mentioning they are behind schedule AND that the Emperor is coming to oversee the final stages personally.
        • Plus, Palpatine is srpinging a trap; when the actual battle starts it is safe to assume the vast majority of the Imperial Starfleet is joining; but only with instructions to contain the rebel fleet and making sure they stay in the killbox; the Death Star is possibly already operational at full capacity even from the start of the movie, it's just not mobile yet. The Emperor does state that the battle station is FULLY operational when he taunts Luke. This means, all of its defense mechanisms are in plaec and working, their only "weak" point is the incomplete surface that would allow to navigate the super estructure. Spreading the rumor that the Death Star is not yet completed IS the actual trap, and the bait is having the Emperor being there in person.
      • Secret projects don't usually have the entire sector fleet called in to protect them.
        • But the Emperor's whole plan revolved around it not being secret for very long. I can sort of buy the Rebels being desperate to strike a fatal blow, but without a single "This is too good to be true"? Where was the "That's impossible, even for a computer" guy? Oh, wait...that was Wedge?!
          • Now you're confusing me. You'd prefer that the rebels found out about the secret project by finding out that the entire sector fleet was protecting it, making it unassailable? What's the point there?
            • Not at all; I'm just saying it's weird that the Rebels didn't even consider that it might be a trap, given the Empire's track record of deception, and that they considered the Executor and it's accompanying squadron, plus a nigh-impenetrable energy shield, "relatively unguarded."
            • Perhaps the Rebels believed that, for even a secret project, the Executor and its escorts would be considered sufficient protection by Imperial Command. After all, Imperial doctrine says that even a single Star Destroyer is enough to subject an entire star system. Also, at this time, there were four other Super Star Destroyers in active service.
            • It's not like the Rebels only sent a couple of squadrons on this one like they did at Yavin. They mustered together what was, until the Emperor sprung his trap, the largest fleet of ships we had seen in the entire series. The plan was to jump in, send in Lando's team to dive into the Death Star's core before the Imperials could react to the shield being down, and then wail on the Executor and her escorts. The plan was for the whole op to be done and them on the way out before reinforcements could arrive, assuming that the Imperials based their strategy around the assumption that any attacking force would be delayed by the shield.
  • The entire movie would have been a lot shorter if the Emperor had remembered that if you are deliberately leaking the access code to the enemy, you can just write down which code you gave them and make sure nobody else is using it, so that the enemy will be automatically identified when they show up. As for the logistics of doing this without risking the Rebels figuring it out? We saw in the movie that the Rebels had no idea whether or not their code was still good until they actually tried it out, so, one bunch of alphanumeric squiggles looks much like another. Also, the bridge crew of the Executor would not need to be told anything about the plot; merely leave a notation in their logbook that "If this particular ID code shows up, call Lord Vader at once. Yes, even if its the middle of the night. Trust me, however afraid you are he'll kill you if you wake him up is nowhere near as slowly and horribly you'll die if you don't. Signed, The Emperor. PS: Don't lower the shield until and unless you are personally told to by either Lord Vader or me."
    • The trap was to lure the entirety of the Rebel fleet over there, and he suceeded. Go watch the code checking scene again and the Flight Operator does consult with an officer stating that the code is old but that it checks out; it's not on screen but how do you know they allowed them to go through since such an old code would be reported as leaked? Vader sensed Luke anyways and it was in his best interest to let him through to capture him and sway him to the dark side. The objective of the trap was to lure the rebel fleet; if they had destroyed the shuttle or captured it the shuttle passengers could have warned Rebel command about it and the whole point of the trap would be moot.
    • Oh, right. Vader did figure out Luke was onboard that shuttle, even without using this tactic. And yet the shuttle was still allowed to land, instead of just being tractored into the Executor's hangar bay. Look, if you want the Death Star blown up that bad, Anakin, just get in your TIE fighter and go do it yourself.
      • I expect the Rebels made arrangements along the lines of the fleet only departing to attack the Death Star once the away team contacted them and confirmed that they had successfully landed. Palpatine probably guessed this and wanted to let the strike team through so the Rebel fleet would attack and he could wipe out all his enemies at once.
      • There was no check-in signal in canon; we know this from the part where Lando had no idea whether the shield was successfully taken down or not until after the Rebel fleet arrived in the Endor system. Also, no check-in signal could be credibly expected; the Rebel ground team couldn't even use comlinks for fear that Imperial signals intelligence would pick up their signal, how the heck are they supposed to operate an interstellar transmitter?
        • Lando and his crew had access to a frequency for the shield, they were actively looking for it; you can assume the Empire knew this too and just switched the Shield frequency to something else while still jamming the Rebels; go watch the scene again. Lando's copilot is not entirely convinced it would be that easy, allowing Lando through questioning to infer they were being deceived. It is when the Rebel Fleet pulls out that the Empire Fleet arrives.
          • Yes, but by that point the Rebel fleet has already entered the trap so it wouldn't change anything. Also, nothing stops the Empire from turning the shield off themselves so the Rebel fleet enters the system and sees exactly what it expects to see (the shield generator deactivated)... and then turn it back on before the Rebel fleet actually reaches firing range of the Death Star, but after its too late for the Rebels to jump back out. It's called 'suckering the enemy into a trap by pretending to have your guard down', and that is the entire point.
      • There's also that the Emperor's plan cannot assume that the sabotage team has a means of contacting the Rebel fleet; if you go on the assumption that they do, the entire Imperial plan is impossible. Nothing short of shooting the shuttle down by surprise could kill the entire sabotage team quickly enough that the last survivor couldn't gasp a quick warning into the radio, and doing that first option means they miss check-in anyway. Ergo, any line of speculation that has the Emperor worrying about the sabotage team having radio check-ins is one where the ROTJ movie doesn't even happen.
      • It IS possible the the commando team was able to send transmissions from the shuttle, but not from anywhere near the shield generator itself for fear of interception. In fact, consider that in order for Han's scheme to work at all someone must have had to take the shuttle Tydirium and actually deliver some supplies to the base on the moon after dropping the commandos some distance away - otherwise it would be obvious after just a few hours that the Executor had cleared a shuttle that had never arrived, and the alarm would be raised. This skeleton shuttle crew would then have been able to return and deliver the message that the plan had worked so far, but perhaps the commandos themselves didn't have the equipment to send a signal after insertion (I can't recall - is Tydirium ever shown on Endor after the insertion?). Knowing this, Palpatine would have needed to allow them to insert safely, with the plan to curb stomp them when they got to the actual generator. What doesn't make much sense is keeping that part of the plan secret from Piett, since he could have accidentally scrubbed the plan by being more suspicious about the old code.
        • If the Millenium Falcon can't signal for help across interstellar range -- and it can't, the entire plot of TESB relies on that -- then the shuttle can't be expected to either.
    • They mention that it's an old code. I just assumed that some imperial pilot a while ago defected and told them everything he knew including the code.
    • The rebels are supposed to get through. Remember the Emperor is overconfidant and isn't just trying for military victory: he's a sadist. It's not enough that the rebels lose, they have to suffer. Letting them think they're winning and then pulling the rug out from under them is much more fun than simply crushing them outright.
  • Why did Luke walk into Jabba's lair unarmed, instead entrusting his light saber to R2-D2 in a convoluted Gambit Roulette? It's not like they were gonna frisk him on the way in, and if they tried there was always the mind trick. Not only could he have made short work of the rancor, but in fact the poor beast would have been spared entirely as Luke would have had Jabba looking down the wrong end of a most lethal weapon immediately.
    • He didn't want to have to use lethal force, or even the threat thereof, unless it became absolutely necessary. There's a huge difference between the vague (paraphrased) "You're screwed if you don't free us" and "If you don't free us, I will stick this burny death-beam into your eye", morally speaking. He probably wasn't planning on the rancor or anything like it -- and in any case, he managed just fine.
      • The Gambit is so convoluted, I have never been able to work out which part of what transpired was as Luke planned it and which part he had to improvise. The nods and what-nots on the sand barge seem to indicate that ending up above the big maul in the desert was always The Plan, but that seems rather implausible. Can anyone work out what plan Luke hatched before going in?
      • It wasn't so much a gambit as Xanatos Speed Chess. Plan A was, obviously, to just negotiate with Jabba and get Han and the others out; if that fell through, having R2 inside with his lightsaber is the clear Plan B--but R2 isn't present when Luke first confronts Jabba, so he has to improvise. There wasn't a "gambit" going on at the barge, the nods were just along the lines of, "Good, you're here, I see you, we'll figure something out."
  • So the reason that the rebel fleet's desperate frontal assault on the Executor worked because no one had ever thought to actually fight a Star Destroyer head-on? I mean, sure, the rebels don't exactly have the resources to toss around to go on balls-to-the-wall assaults, but what, did everyone else just give up when they saw a Star Destroyer? "Welp, Star Destroyer's here. Everyone pack up, we're surrendering."
    • It's not that they hadn't tried before; go look at the scene in question. Once they discover the Death star is operational Lando proposes Akbar to go engage the Executioner at point blank range. Akbar retorts that "they won't last long against a Super star Destroyer at that range" not that they CANT win the engagement. Akbar also doesn't state that their ships are weak, as the spectator can infer from the visuals that they CAN take on normal Star Destroyers at point blank.
      • He said "At that close range, we won't last long against those Star Destroyers", meaning the entire Imperial Fleet that was there. They weren't confident about their chances at all.
    • Akbar first calls for a retreat since they can't repel the Death Star laser with their shields; Lando then proposes to engage at point blank presumably to keep the DS from firing on their own ships and buy some time "We might take some of them with us".

And they DID last longer with this strategy and were even able to disable the Executioner's shield generator; they downed it on a lucky shot since they had a ship accidentally crash INSIDE the command deck. They were "giving up" because they were fighting against the Death star.

    • The Executor isn't a Star Destroyer. It's a Super Star Destroyer; it's more than 10 times the size of the regular Star Destroyers, and it's the Emperor's flagship. So, yes, when they saw it on the battlefield, it was shorthand for "you are so fucked right now."
    • Especially when the Death Star revealed that it was quite operational and capable of firing the death ray. That's why Ackbar was all "RETREAT! RETREAT! RETREAT!" He knew how fucked they all were and rightfully assumed that this attack would spell their complete and utter doom.
    • Entertainingly enough, that's exactly how it worked in the X-Wing game. You had until the Star Destroyer arrived to finish your mission. Once they showed up and began to spew forth wave after wave of TIE Fighters, it was time to finish up and get the hell out of there.
    • Besides all that, Ackbar probably meant on a one-to-one basis. If they had superior numbers, the Rebels might be bolder, but it's not made clear whether or not the rebels even had equal numbers with the Imperials.
      • Indeed. The Rebel fleet is clearly based on speed and agility while the Imperials use brute force and raw power. While not always the best source in most computer games only the Mon Calimari cruisers can go toe to toe with a Star Destroyer and stand much of a chance.
        • And that's only because of their fighter compliment.
    • It may have worked because it was a completely suicidal attack - the Rebels probably incurred more losses in the process of taking out the Executor than any admiral would consider an acceptable trade in a normal battle. The Battle of Endor was simply too desperate for retreat or surrender, and it probably also involved a larger enemy force than any Super Star Destroyer had ever faced.
    • The attack on the Star Destroyers wasn't meant to be a brilliant strategy, it was simply the lesser of two evils at that point, as the Death Star wouldn't be able to fire on their ships anymore without hitting the Star Destroyers in the process.
  • Why were there any speeders on Endor? Endor is the last place you want fast moving, lightly armored vehicles. It's so heavily covered in forest that it's known as the forest moon. We even see why it's a stupid idea in the movie, several Scout troopers die because they crashed into trees. Speeders make sense on moons and planets with large open areas to drive (or hover) on, large tough vehicles that can smash through obstacles make sense on Endor.
    • Speeders prove they can fly above the tree line when Leia does just that to take down the scout trooper on her own. The question is why don't they do that as a matter of course.
      • But Endor is a moon known specifically for its dense forests. What would the use be of going above the tree line if you can't see anything going on below it?
      • Why is something that's bigger, louder, and going to require tons more maintenance (knocking over trees isn't exactly easy on the equipment) preferable? Believe it or not, "completely wreck everything about the planet we're on," isn't necessarily the best idea. Those crashes happen because they're in a fight and someone pushed them into crashing.
      • Leia never goes above the tree line, at least not in the movie (does the novelization say otherwise)? She only flew up and out of the scout's line of sight. Flying up into the foliage of a densely-packed forest, amid the overlapping branches and leaves, would be more suicidal than flying between the tree trunks.
      • Small hover bikes would probably be a decent mode of transportation through a forest under normal circumstances. They don't need to go at full speed all the time.
  • Early on in the movie we see Jabba and co. asleep in roughly the same area. Why didn't Leia just throw her detonator at them then? It would have had the same ultimate effect and wouldn't have been as unintelligent as trying to sneak Solo out.
    • She'd be caught in the blast radius?
  • Why did the Rebel Fleet bring the medical frigate with them to the Battle of Endor? As meat shield? As cannon fodder? It's a (relatively) tiny ship with few weapons and no fighter complement, so its offensive value is virtually nil against an Imperial vessel. Its ability to function as a hospital ship would also be hindered by the running battle: any casualties or injuries incurred in the midst of combat (on the Endor surface or aboard Rebel starships) that required immediate medical attention would have to be treated on site, as ferrying them to and from the frigate would put even more personnel at risk. And injured Rebels that didn't require immediate care could wait until the end of the battle, when the moon's orbit was secure, and then have the Fleet summon as many hospital ships as it wanted. But the ship's presence there only forced the Rebel fighters to waste time protecting it, and in the end, the related materials say that it was eventually sunk by the Death Star anyway. So was there a point of having it there beyond giving the Imperials something else to shoot at? Because even that's debatable: surely the Empire would realize the frigate's minimal tactical value and would focus instead on juicier targets like Home-One.
    • The original plan for the battle hadn't called for prolonged fighting. The Rebel ships would swoop in, and the fighters would attack the Death Star while the capital ships, with some fighters who stayed back, ran interference to keep the ships inside from being attacked. The medical frigate would be an asset in that case since a pilot who has ejected from his fighter would be able to be recovered by a shuttle from the medical frigate quickly, since this was going to be the quivilent of a 'smash-and-grab' run. However, since the shield was still up, that's when the frigate became a liability, as the lack of defenses meant that it wouldn't be capable of surviving the pitched battle that they got stuck in.
    • I don't know if the medical frigate lost anything by being a hospital ship, but in the game Tie Fighter those frigates are far from defenseless. Besides carrying at least a squadron of fighters, frigates of the type shown in the film have some scary point defenses. The ships aren't good against Star Destroyers, but I wouldn't volunteer to strafe one in a TIE fighter, that's for sure. The frigate, in the original plan, was probably supposed to provide some anti-fighter support, not trade turbolaser volleys with a Star Destroyer.
  • All right. You're a feared, experienced bounty hunter, with a variety of long-range weapons including a huge Hand Cannon carbine that you're very good at using. You're in a very advantageous position (the shaded deck of Jabba's barge) and your target is on lower ground (the deck of a sand skiff,) out in the open, distracted by scores of other guardsmen, and doesn't even know you're there. His weapon, while powerful, is limited to a range of maybe two meters. And while he may claim to be a Jedi, he's only using basic melee attacks to defend himself and his friends, so staying away from him is still the better option. You have every possible advantage you could ever want to blast him to smithereens. Why would you ever fly from your position to land almost on top of your enemy, immediately alerting him to your presence and intentions, and then draw your carbine at point-blank range to his face where he can chop it in half before you can blink?
    • Because Fett knows better than anyone else there exactly what Jedi can do. 'Alerting Luke to his intentions' is something that he cannot avoid happening regardless of range -- Luke is psychic, and will immediately know he's in danger the instant Fett draws down on him regardless of whether Fett is three feet away or three hundred. And sniping at a Jedi from long range is futility incarnate. Sure, he can't reach you, but he has far more time to react to your shooting at him and get his lightsaber into position to block. Fett knows he has literally no fucking hope in hell of successfully getting a blaster bolt past Luke's lightsaber defense at 100 meters, but at 3 meters he can always hope that taking a shot at Luke's back while Luke is busy defending against someone else will let him actually land a hit.
    • Plus, Fett can fly while Luke can only jump -- he was likely figuring 'OK, if the Jedi starts beating me in close combat, I'll just blow on out of here and come back with something else'. Except that Han accidentally breaks his jetpack, ruining that idea.
Retrieved from "https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Return_of_the_Jedi/Headscratchers?oldid=1591278"