Sly Cooper/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


Sly Cooper

  • Why oh why didn't they stick with the main villain for the third game, rather than pulling something out of their collective arses?
    • Two reasons. First, Clockwerk was unambiguously killed at the end of the second game. The very thing keeping him alive was destroyed and every part of him shriveled into nothing. Bringing him back would have been very cheap. Second, there're only so may ways you can rehash the same villain while keeping it interesting; the second game did a good job, and they were wise not to press their luck. Third (though this isn't a "reason"), the new villain has a pretty decent concept.
      • Then why did they make a third game that's more a minigame collection than a game? (Yes, yes, it's a Take That, but I was disappointed.)
      • Because people were whining about how 'linear' the second game was, I suppose. Never mind that the second game's plot was very meticulously constructed and made for a great storyline, people still complained. Also, my guess is they wanted to try something a little different as opposed to repeating the first game's concept of a Five-Bad Band - not to mention, they wanted to go lighter than the very dark second game while still keeping it fairly serious. Personally I didn't mind the plot and game as a whole, but I will complain that there didn't feel like there was a big threat/story arc for a good deal of the game as a result. To each their own I suppose.
  • In Sly 2, why did everyone act like Clock-la would be invincible and unstoppable if she became immortal? Clockwerk was immortal in the first game, but he still got his ass handed to him by the Cooper Gang.
    • Seriously, why?
    • Because of Arpeggio's plan to sow hate through all of Paris. Clockwerk's immortality was fueled only by his own hatred of the Cooper clan, but Clock-la would have the entire city boosting her immortality with hatred.
    • It should be noted that an additional reason to stop the plan is that the arrival of the blimp over Paris would cause the entire city to go into a giant destructive rage. It'd be like the Narrows in Batman Begins. And that's where the gang lives. Paris, not the Narrows.
  • Where did Clockwerk get the robot parts for his body? He made it pretty clear that he'd replaced his flesh with them a few thousand years ago, long before the concept of robots had been created, much less functional parts.
    • Prosthetics have been around for thousands of years, and since he's obviously smart enough to replace every single part of his body (including his brain and heart, somehow) with mechanical replicas, he was probably way ahead of his time.
      • Yes to the prosthetics, but they were made of wood and couldn't link to a nervous system. If Clockwerk could design and build robot parts like that thousands of years before anyone else even thought of them, why didn't he just sell them? He would've been the richest being on Earth and he could hired an army to kill the Cooper clan effortlessly.
        • And allow someone else to kill them? He achieved immortality through his sheer hatred of the Cooper clan. Clockwerk was insane to a degree previously unknown. He wouldn't be capable of thinking that way.
    • It's perfectly possible that the robotic parts are a comparatively recent addition (comparatively as in only a couple of thousand years old). As Napoleon told Ra's Al Ghul, "A strong will can fuel a frail physique", and his pure, undiluted hatred gave Clockwerk possibly one of the strongest wills in all of fiction. It's stated that his hatred is what kept him alive for so long, so it's possible that he only became the six-million dollar bird when the technology became available so that he'd be more capable of tormenting the Cooper clan. Plus, in terms of the technology becoming available, remember that Clockwerk is a technical genius far beyond even the capabilities of the Fiendish Five's nominal "chief inventor", Sir Raleigh (as Bentley says after examining the technology used by Ms. Ruby and the Panda King), and Raleigh himself was capable of casually creating a machine to control the weather, which should give you an idea of how smart Clockwerk was. Combine that with an almost infinite drive to defeat the Cooper clan and there's probably not much he couldn't do.
    • How DOES one replace their own brain and heart?
      • You download your brain onto a mechanical copy, then once every other bit of you is robotic, you replace your heart. Of course, WHY Clockwerk would need a heart is unknown.
  • Why would Clockwerk need a stomach?
    • Where else would he store the Coopers he has beat?
    • He used to be a regular owl, with a regular stomach. He probably replaced it with a robotic one at a point in his life after he decided to replace his body parts with machine parts, but still had organic left parts that needed to be nourished. Presumably, it became vestigial once he was completely mechanical, unless it was re-purposed to serve some mechanical function.
      • Don't owls have gizzards instead of stomachs, anyway? Maybe Sucker Punch just didn't want to confuse children who don't even know what a gizzard is. . .but then again according to Sucker Punch, tigers hate water.
      • Clockwerk could have also simply needed the stomach (and other organs) to supply support to the framework of his body so it wouldn't be hallow or a complete mess of wires.
      • In Sly 2 it managed to power one of Jean Bison's trains to run all day, so it could be some kind of extra engine
  • Why did Clockwerk build a death ray? Seems like an odd tool for someone who wants to be a master thief...
    • As explicated at the end of Sly 1, Clockwerk's idea of becoming a master thief is killing all better thieves so he'd have the title by default.
      • What did he actually steal, though?
        • Sly Cooper's cane. That's got to count for something. Apart from that, though, I'm not sure.
        • You could count the Thievius Raccoonus
    • New theory: Perhaps Clockwerk is only immortal in the philosophical sense- the Clockwerk family built bigger and better robot suit-type machines throughout history, passing their knowledge down to the next generation. It wasn't until nerve-connective prosthetics were invented that Clockwerk achieved artificial immortality.
  • What are Clockwerk's parts made of to be so indestructible?
    • I got the sense that it was the hate chip that was keeping them indestructible, since they all rusted to nothing once it was destroyed. But Bently did mention something about them being made of super-alloys.
  • In Sly 3: I didn't really mind Dimitri, and I actually liked the direction they went with the Panda King's character, but having Muggshot be into fighting planes is just stupid. There was absolutely nothing in his character in the first game that would lend itself to that. And don't answer with anything with "dogfight" or "top dog," because even puns that simple would sail over his head.
    • The dogfights are apparently a perfectly legal way to blow people up in mid-air. Something like that must attract all kinds of psychos and killers, and Mugshot has a lot of steam to blow off.
      • He's a mean, stupid thug, and a fan favorite.
    • Or perhaps the puns did sail right over his head, and he thought he was actually signing up for some kind of dog vs. dog wrestling match or something? Then he comes in and discovers he likes blowing up planes?
  • Why oh why did Sly have to bring back Bentley and Murray? They were set up for a timely retirement with one crippled and the other grief ridden. He could have got new partners in crime or even just work with the cops in that installment, lending them his understanding of the criminal mind and methodology. he would have had official albeit under cover off-the-records kind of 'official' help and resources with different cops with different specialties helping out for each given job. Of course, it also means working directly with Carmelita but on her terms. Ah, there's still time for that in the future.
    • Because Bentley and Murray are his friends; he simply WOULDN'T let that happen. Not while he can stop it.
      • The Cooper Gang were more than Sly's friends. They're his family, he's not just going to abandon them that easily. Even at the end of Sly 3, he knows that they know where he is and what he's up to.
      • Officially, Bently never left. He stuck with Sly after he was crippled, only leaving temporarily to get the wheelchair. Murray, meanwhile, did leave.
        • Besides, the whole plot of 3 was to steal back a fortune in previously stolen goods that was being re-stolen by an old accomplice of Sly's father. If Sly had gone to the cops for help, they'd have laughed all the way to the sturdiest cell in the joint. Plus, Dr. M was right, he was within his rights as the legal owner of the island to crack the vault. Everything in it was stolen goods, but... maritime salvage laws. We'll go with that.
      • Most of the stuff in the vault was stolen hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. The statute of limitations on those crimes is long since expired. Dr. M might have run into some trouble with the more recent additions to the vault (like the stuff added by Sly's dad) but most of it is up for grabs.
  • Am I the only one bothered by the ending, NOT because Sly pretty much abandons his friends (though that was pretty bad), but because no one points out that there's probably something wrong with lying about something THAT BIG? Especially basing a romantic relationship off that lie?? (Flight of Fancy bugged me, too-- before you know that Penelope is the Black Baron, it sounds like she's very upset by the idea that someone might cheat... so, naturally, you do just that TO GET HER TO JOIN THE TEAM.)
    • The ending fades to black after Bentley figures it out, and he acts indignant enough. As for Flight of Fancy, the only caper Penelope actually helps you on is one where you're trying to stop people from cheating against you.
      • I thought she was upset that somebody had (successfully) bribed the Baron's minions into helping hurt you?
    • Penelope is with the gang, drooling over Sly, for a couple of episodes before she ends up in a relationship with anyone, and the only relationship lie involving her was the internet thing with with the 'shopped photos, which Bentley obviously got over pretty quickly. As for the Sly/Carmelita resolution being based on a lie, that bothers me a lot. Not just he faked amnesia, but that she lied about who he is. (and how the hell did she get away with that, anyway? Yes, let's just give an amnesiac criminal access to the international police's resources, and hope he's not lying now, nor will get his memory back without telling anyone.)
    • In all fairness, he did leave them all of the Cooper Vault Wealth. And He did think that he had been foolish for trying to avoid a relationship for so long a mere hour before hand.
      • Yeah, arguably, leaving his family's gold as a goodbye makes skipping out on his True Companions a bit better, but the question of the relationship he did so for being based on a pretty darn big lie on either side is still there.
      • No one said it was an easy choice. But it can only be one thing, no matter how you think abowt it. He DID leave them a good bye present after all. Being his friends, he knew they'll understand.
  • How come Penelope, someone even less physically oriented than Bentley, was able to hand Sly's ass to him in a boxing match as the Baron? And why did she deign not to use this magical talent afterwards?
    • Uh, since it's surely the succeeded task that's the canon event, since that's what's needed to continue, that should be nearly hand Sly's ass to him, and even that took lots of minions. Also, she does win the sword fight against Le Fwee, so it's not the only time she shows such a talent. Also, less physically oriented than Bentley? Where do you get that from? She was a blinkin' fighter ace, after all. More generally, hitting people is what they have Murray for, they got Penelope for the RC vehicle skills.
      • Whoops, I didn't clarify the boss fight as I had intended to, sorry. I'll accept your arguments; it JBM that someone with all that potential strength only operates through machines, is all.
        • She might be a decent fighter but the gang has a better strong person and her true potential is as a mechanic and pilot.
        • Plus, This Troper always assumed that, due to the considerable difference in size between the Baron and Penelope, that the Baron suit was some sort of machine, which would enhance her strength as well as change her voice. Plus, though both this and the LeFwee fight shows that she's quite skilled in combat, it's unlikely that a "Master Boxer' would leave themselves open to attack as much as she did during the fight. (Yes, I realize that pointing out a boss's tactics being illogical is kind of redundant with these sorts of bosses, but it should be noted nonetheless.)
    • I must have missed that part of the game. Last time I played, it was the baron who got his (well, her, but... you know) ass handed to him by Sly. The canon event is Sly kicking her ass to the point where she surrenders. And, considering that Sly won, despite all the help the baron got from his henchmen, I'd say it's safe to say Sly was so busy kicking ass, he forgot to take names, if you'll excuse the Halo reference.
  • I've got to ask, between the first and second games, did Murray... go off his meds or something? I mean, in the first game, he's a fairly normal hippo (well, as normal as anyone is in these games), albeit kind of cowardly and with a serious case of "Sly-envy", as the developers put it, and in the second game, he's, well... THE MURRAY! Maybe it's explained in a tie-in comic or something, but... it just seems odd to me.
    • HE IS THE MURRAY
    • Well, what would you prefer? A not-all-that-interesting slightly clumsy oaf or THE GREATEST HAM IN THE HISTORY OF PLAYSTATION?
      • Several believe that Murray became The Murray via watching Pro-wrestling. Hence the third-person reference and the want to hit stuff.
  • Okay, a few questions about Raleigh from the first game. 1. When Sly encounters advanced technology in Ms. Ruby's and the Panda King's world, why does Bentley immediately assume that "The fifth member of the Fiendish Five" (who they didn't know about at that point) supplied it, rather than their actual chief inventor. 2. Why didn't he use any machines during his boss fight? I mean, don't get me wrong, the fight was fun and all, but he's been built up all this time as a "mad machinist" capable of creating bizarre and fantastical devices, including a weather manipulator. I was all set up to fight some sort of giant robot or massive death ray or something cool and mechanical. Instead, he just bloated himself up and tried to jump on you. I mean, I love the character and wish they'd done more with him, but... Damn, talk about an anticlimax. and 3. Where did he get that sweet hat? I want one!
    • You can get one at the gift shop. Same place where you buy the canes.
    • Perhaps Raleigh was caught up in the moment and forgot about his weaponry, or he just didn't have any on hand because he was confident no one would get him in his blimp.
  • If Interpol had the files to the Fiendish Five linking them to the murder of Sly's parents and the locations of their hideouts for years, then why for the love of all that's pure and decent didn't they arrest them earlier? Were they just not concerned with catching them and decided to focus all efforts on Sly and his gang? If so Interpol has some seriously messed up priorities if they place more importance on simple theives than a gang of pirates/ mobsters/vodoo priestess(es)/arsonists/mad scientists.
    • Either their locations were just too damn impossible to navigate (Raleigh and Ruby come to mind), or they were only suspected of murdering Sly's parents (likely due to confirmed/suspected association with Clockwerk, who would be way impossible to catch anyway,) or they were using hostages to work out some sort of deal at one time (I mean, Panda King could blow up towns and did so once both Interpol and Sly's Gang started to go after him, and it's likely Ruby could do much more damage with her voodoo powers, Raleigh could wreck havoc if he took his weather machine elsewhere, Mugshot was basically a walking tank that took over an entire city, and you know Clockwerk could've taken over the planet if he wanted. I mean, c'mon.) Also, Sly's gang is anything but simple. Weren't they mentioned having stolen a priceless gem from some temple prior to the first game's beginning?
    • Carmelita actually showed that she didn't know that the Panda King was a criminal, so it's possible that Interpol only SUSPECTED Panda King of arsony, but never had the evidence.
  • Here's what I don't get about the end of Sly 2. How did Clockwerk cripple Bentley? Where did Murray go with him? What was that red thing that looked like Bentley that was draped on a rock? How did Cooper escape the helicopter Did Murray feel guilty for not really protecting Bently? I'm very confused.
    • Clockwerk (Clock-la, really) crippled Bentley when she crushed him in her beak. Murray and Bentley went somewhere, but the location isn't important. I'm pretty sure the "red thing that looked like Bentley" was Bentley's and Murray's thief outfits. Sly escaped the helicopter because Bentley and/or Murray somehow managed to replace the pilot and control the helicopter. Sly then just jumped out of it once Carmelita took her eyes off of him. Yes, Murray felt guilty for not protecting Bentley, and it's dealt with in Sly 3. Did you actually beat the game? Most of these questions are clearly answered by the game, so I don't see why you find it so confusing.
      • Ah yes! I just recently beat Sly 2. I wrote that before I had beat it, so yah. XD
      • Dude, you gotta beat these games before asking questions like that...
  • Not really a huge deal, but I've always wondered. In the first Sly game, what are those things in the ground when you're fighting Muggshot? They look sorta like crystals, and you seem to reflect the light off of them. I'm just not sure what they are, or why they're there in the first place.
    • I think they're just fancy decorations that can repurposed to fry you. Maybe a security system installed by the building's previous owner that Muggshot didn't know about?
  • Did Sly actually become Carmelita's partner as part of his fake amnesia plan? Given the situation, I can see Interpol having an issue with that, if only for the ethics of it. (Yes, we know Sly was only playing along with Carmelita's lie, and I doubt Carmelita was trying to take advantage of him, but others would probably see it at a Heel Face Brainwashing.)


  • How the heck did Dimitri end up in an Italian jail when he was arrested in France? Not only that, but the credits of Sly 2 say he reformed and became a dance instructor on a cruise ship. So what happened to that life?
    • That one's easy. Dimitri's a career criminal, he probably did something else illegal and got caught. Most likely recently, as the jail Sly broke him out of looked more like a holding cell than anything else.
    • The things he did that were mentioned in the credits of Sly 2 could have happened after the events of Sly 3.
  • Why did they introduce the mechanical eggs near the end of Sly 2? They weren't relevant to the plot, and they were a perfectly good excuse to have an army of Clockwerks for the next game, but that was their first and last appearance. This troper hasn't played Sly 3, by the way.
    • The eggs contain mini robot henchmen for that level(and yes, they had did nothing in Sly 3).
  • Would Arpeggio's scheme really have worked? The kind of anger that fueled Clockwerk was obsessive, psychotic hatred. What he was trying to create was basically a chemically induced rage. While they both fit the concept of 'anger' in the dictionary sense, they have very little in common.
  • Arpeggio's scheme is reliant on using the Northern Lights Battery to drive Paris into a hypnosis-induced rage. The Northern Lights Battery has no power in it whatsoever; Sly's gang knows this, since they were the ones who drained it, in order to be able to ride it up to the blimp, which they did. So, why the worry over Clock-La driving Paris into a rage, when it's clearly impossible?
    • He could have gotten one earlier -- Arpeggio is one for planning ahead. Too bad, he didn't see Neyla's "Eviler Than Thou" actions coming until it was too late.
    • Plus they still were planning to dump spice onto Paris which would probably still create the desired effect. Remember even though they stopped John Bison, it's still only mentioned that they stopped distribution in the States. Plus they'd been shipping the spice for a while until Sly and the Gang put a stop to it, so Arpeggio would've had access to plenty.
  • What is Rajan's position in the Klaww Gang? I've listed him as a Brute as he's evidently very strong, as he can deal a lot of damage against Murray, but that's all my justifications.
    • Since he's the one who produces the "spices", I guess you could call him the supplier.
    • Not every evil group has to be a Five-Bad Band, you know! Do remember that, as overeager as we tropers are to assign people into Five Man and Bad Bands, the characters themselves wouldn't be thinking along those lines when assembling groups. After all, the Klaww Gang's main source of income is spice dealing, and to that end, they'd need an organizer (Arpeggio), a transporter (Jean-Bison), a distributer (Dimitri), an insider on the police force (The Contessa)... and a supplier (Rajan). Remember, just because many things fit a trope like Five-Bad Band doesn't mean everything has to. Also, if anyone's The Brute, it's Jean-Bison, being a massive, rather thuggish lumberjack and all.
    • OP here, so he's just a something more like a Genius Bruiser, and the Klaww Gang does have members closely fitting all the other Five-Bad Band tropes
    • On the initial Five-Bad Band subject, I agree. I mean just because they associated with one another doesn't mean they were necessarily a team. After all Jean Bison and Arpeggio were negotiating a deal for the Clockwerk parts as opposed to Bison simply giving them to Arpeggio and all of them had their individual businesses aside from spice production (with the exception of Rajan) so clearly they did run their separate enterprises.
  • Why is it that neither a turtle or a hippo can swim?
  • In the China level of Sly 3, when Tsao steals the laptop, you have to head into his palace and hack into his computer. Now, the entire point of this level is to save Jing King, who is in the same room as the computer, so why don't they just rescue her then while Tsao is waiting in the forest? The only thing between you and her is a sliding glass door!
    • I believe it had to deal with ruining him for what he did to Panda King. Tsao took his daughter, he wanted Tsao to be publicly humiliated. Also, Tsao, if I recall correctly, was part of a rich/well-known family, who could've easily set aside the resources to procuring her and ensuring the Cooper Gang ended up in jail.
  • So, Clockwerk's character revolves around him being a rival to the Cooper Clan, who's tired of them besting him as a master thief over the years. This poses two questions... 1) If Clockwerk is a master thief like the Coopers, why isn't he more notorious (according to Sly, Interpol hardly had any information on him)? And 2) How good a thief could he possibly be given that he's a giant robotic owl? His metal body makes so much noise when you fight him, it doesn't seem he could be that stealthy, and he's way too big to even fit through most doors, let alone windows or air vents or other "thief" entrances.
    • As for why Interpol had hardly any info on him? He just kills any witnesses. As for actual thieving... Maybe he has his hawk drones do that for him?
    • To answer #1, the Cooper family, we know Sly for sure, probably left a calling card at their heists, while Clockwerk probably didn't.
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