Talk:Alto Villainess

Essentially, it's "characters of a particular gender and moral outlook tend to have a particular vocal range". Assuming it's accurate (which is debatable, considering it only has two examples listed), does this tell us anything about the story?

Basically, should this be fleshed out, or deleted?

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I dunno. I'm inclined to nuke it, if only because it's an old TVT trope that hasn't picked up more examples in a decade. But a quick look at the original page at TVT shows it now has over two dozen examples there. It definitely seems like it might be a legitimate casting/scoring trope.

I know it's ironic for me to discount TVT on this point considering how often I appeal to it elsewhere, but I'm not sure it's a trope as opposed to a quirk of casting.

Apparently it's common enough in opera to be a crossword puzzle clue, so I'm now thinking we should keep the trope. I know next to nothing about opera, though, so I can't provide any specific examples.

Also, Power Makes Your Voice Deep and Evil Sounds Deep might have something that's at least tangentially related. (And both pages need at least their section headers updated to the current ATT standard, as of this writing.)

Well, short of rewriting what TVT has in a manner that doesn't break the no copying rule, I can't think of anything to contribute.

I keep flip-flopping on this one... Every example listed here except for Thoroughly Modern Millie is already listed on Evil Sounds Deep, and that page already has a long list of Opera examples.

So now I'm back to suggesting we move the remaining example there and then redirect this page to that one.

Somebody make a proposal one way or the other, please...

My vote remains "nuke".

Hrm.

Chiming in here, in hopes of helping.

I'm not quite so sure this is simply a quirk of casting. I mean, it also has echoes in Japanese media. Look at the effected female villainous laughter - the evil ojou-sama's WOH-HOH-HOH-HOH-HOH! Although you do, at times, see a villainous female in Japanese media with a cutesy sounding voice... and at those that you do see one like this? Those are usually the ones that are intended to make you go, "....OOOOO-KAAAYYYEEEEE THEN! That is one messed up little bitch!" In fact, you see both archetypes in Trigger's Kill la Kill: the cutesy-yet-batshit-crazy Nui Harime, and the magnificent bastard of an ojou-sama that everyone worships, Ragyou Kiryuuin.

I think that, really, these tropes need to be rewritten altogether under a new trope. One where the pitch and tone of a villain's voice indicates how likely they are to go ax-crazy on you.

I was asked to comment here, so I will. This is a real thing that is probably Too Common to Trope effectively. Ultimately this is an extension of The Three Faces of Eve -- the pure maiden will naturally have a higher voice because she represents youthful innocence, while the manipulative crones have more life experience and get the sexy alto parts. It is not quite Evil Sounds Deep because it's invoking archetypes, not just trying to sound scary (larger animals having lower pitched vocalizations) but it's probably close enough that we can explain it in the description.

I really don't know opera, so I can't help much. But one example that comes to mind is Ah! My Goddess, where some of the folks from down there like Hild have a deeper voice (at least in full size).

Poking the thread with a suggestion: Following up on Labster's comment, why don't we put an explicit note about alto villainesses on Evil Sounds Deep instead of noting it's a supertrope to this one, and turn this into a redirect to that page?

That's almost what I suggested but didn't formally propose here. Seconding this proposal.

Sorry, I somehow missed that. I should have credited you.

No worries. As I said there, I keep flip-flopping on this page - my idea was nothing more than an idea at that time.

We had two votes to merge this into Evil Sounds Deep. These votes are three months old.

If nobody cares enough about this to actually make a preference known, then it's going to keep tying up a slot in the Trope Workshop.

Re-making the motion that @Looney Toons made three months ago: Merge this with Evil Sounds Deep.

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Re-approving my own motion.

Still don't think it's a trope. Voting for a merge unless someone (@BlackAeronaut?) wants to try reworking it.

I'm with Loony Toons, it should be merged with Evil Sounds Deep.

I favor a merge as well.

We should do a merge. Some villainesses like Lord Dominator are sopranos

Six votes to merge, no dissent.