Talk:Evil Is Petty

My understanding is when someone thinks "Petty", this is the definition that comes to mind:

pet·ty

adjective

1 [...]

• (of behavior) characterized by an undue concern for trivial matters, especially in a small-minded or spiteful way.

E.g. A character spending years systematically ruining someone's life because they insulted his/her appearance.

That is not this trope. This trope is about a character that does poke the poodle grade things (such as going to a restaurant and not leaving a tip) as well as seriously evil things like rape or murder.

As such I consider the name is misleading.

If the name was "Evil Is Only Petty", you'd have a point... but that isn't the trope name.

But I'm not convinced doing poke the poodle grade things is the same thing as being "petty" (with the definition I used at least). Going to a restaurant and not leaving a tip doesn't take more time, resources, and/or effort than going to a restaurant and leaving a tip.

Isn't that why "Poke the Poodle" is a separate trope?

Huh? I don't know what I said that warranted that response.

I was saying this name might (and I believe in some cases, has) lead to people to believe that the trope is that evil characters do drastic things (at the cost of some sort of non-trivial expense) over petty motives. Which is not what this trope is. And as such the name "Evil is Petty" is a bad name.

Evil being petty, using the definition I supplied for "petty", is not this trope.

The thing to understand is that this trope isn't "Evil is a small thing" but "Evil likes being a dick when it isn't doing big EVUL things". When Evil is Petty, a Bond villain, in between his schemes, will take the time to steal candy from babies and make little kids drop their ice cream, just for giggles. He'll bring in a bolt cutter and "liberate" all the pens at the bank. He'll go out of his way to do an incredibly tiny dickish thing, because there's no dick move too small to inflate his ego. If he could find a way to diminish someone else's happiness just by breathing, he'd do it and revel in it.

First off, I don't think the current name reflects that definition exclusively.

Also, I don't think the motive matters. A villain motivated by greed could not pay tips (which would be poodle poking) along with non poodle poking actual villainy, like kidnapping for ransom money, bank robbing, arms trafficking, ect... All while being utterly indifferent (and not sadistic) about the suffering he inflicts on others as a by product of his actions.

And I think such a villain would qualify for this trope.

Look, this trope and the "Poke the poodle" one refer to motivation, not to the level of the action. "Poke The Poodle" is for people who treat making inconveniences to others as if they were doing Big Schemes to Destroy the World, because they think those minor inconveniences are the worst thing their victims may experience or because those are the worst evil things they can think of. A villain who is under Evil Is Petty does things that seem pokingpoodleish in appearance, but are motivated by the same hatred of others as their world destruction schemes. For Evil is Petty, no shit is too minor to fling it to others.

Even by the dictionary definition you posted, the name of the trope still applies. It is as petty to ruin a life of a person because you don't like their hairdo they were wearing one day, than to destroy a person 'do and steal all hair products from the local mart because you hate hair in principle. For some isn't enough to ruin their enemies lives, they also must be sure that their enemies had their daily lives equally miserable in seemingly minor ways, like having all their candy stolen and all the creamer changed for their least favorite brand.

If you think some examples are better in "Poke the Poodle", move them. If you think that it refers to another trope, bring your trope idea to the forums or the workshop. If you have a better name, propose it. For me, the name should stay, because it's reasonably accurate for the trope.

As long as we're discussing dictionary definitions...

Merriam-Webster:

1 : having secondary rank or importance : minor, subordinate
2 : having little or no importance or significance
3 : marked by or reflective of narrow interests and sympathies : small-minded

Oxford:

1 : Of little importance; trivial. ‘the petty divisions of party politics’
1.1 : Unduly concerned with trivial matters, especially in a small-minded or spiteful way. ‘she thought readers were being petty in writing to complain about blocked paths’
2 : attributive Of secondary or lesser importance, rank, or scale; minor. ‘a petty official’
2.1 : Law (of a crime) of lesser importance. ‘petty theft’

With the exception of Merriam-Webster's definition 1, these appear to me to support the current trope name. (This is much like how Merriam-Webster's definition 1 of "literature" doesn't support how we use that word, but their other definitions do.)

I didn't say that the name doesn't fit for all definitions, but I think the current name gives room for misinterpretation. And as such is a sub-optimal name. I want a name that exclusively fits the trope's definition leaving no room for misinterpretation.

Also Lequinni, you have convinced me that motive matters. I'm going to tweak the definition to make that more clear.

I really don't see how the current name can be misinterpreted.

I recall coming across misinterpretations multiple times. Of course, if that's true, I've deleted them on sight. Going through my user contributions however, this is the only edit where I both got rid of misinterpretations while also bothering to state why in the edit summary https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?title=Evil_Is_Petty&diff=prev&oldid=1605327 . I think that demonstrates how it could be misinterpreted, but my lack of other evidence suggests this problem isn't nearly as common as I thought.

Edit: On a second look, that doesn't even seem terribly far off.

I think you may be in the minority with that opinion. We have yet to see anyone else weigh in on your side.