Talk:Magnificent Bastard

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Moderator Note

13
Summary by Looney Toons

Random schmuck wanders in off the street, arrogantly demands we change a policy he doesn't like, then vanishes when we tell him to convince other users he's right.

Crowley019 (talkcontribs)

Do we really need that note there? I dont think anyone would by trying to turn this trope into CM which doesnt allow eexample entries anyway.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

The note is there because several someones tried this within the last couple months. Because they couldn't add anything to CM or its subpages, they started using this trope as their substitute. This is an explicit warning to anyone else who has the same clever idea that they will be stomped and their edits reverted.

Crowley019 (talkcontribs)

Looking at the trope history I dont really see when or how that happened as most edits revisions and new entries seem in line with this tropes qualifications rather than trying to shoehorn a CM into MB.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

They weren't on this page, but on those of works or their subpages. We reverted the first few attempts to turn it into an ersatz Complete Monster and put the warning on this page to make our stance on the issue clear. It's staying, unless you can get a clear consensus of wiki users to agree it should go.

Crowley019 (talkcontribs)

Care to provide links with these alleged attempts to turn it into a ersatz of CM?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

"alleged"? Exactly what is questionable about the claim?

Since you have chosen to use that sort of language, you can look them up yourself.

DocColress (talkcontribs)

I'd always assumed the note was put up because of me. Even though attempting to turn MB into an Ersatz of CM was not ever an intention behind any of my contributions and edits on the trope whatsoever.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

The world does not revolve around you.

The note was put up because of other people's actions.

DocColress (talkcontribs)

Well I was away from the Wiki for quite a long while, so I guess I wasn't in the know of what was going on with certain tropes even as I contributed my own efforts to them.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

I have too many other things to do to spend the time needed to troll through months-old change histories. Nor am I obligated to justify a wiki administration decision to a random new user who's walked in with an obvious chip on his shoulder, and whose only contributions to the wiki so far have been three messages, all on this talk page, demanding a change in that decision.

I will repeat what I said before: If you think a policy needs to be changed, propose it in the forums and assemble a consensus of wiki users who agree. We are not going to change a policy just because you decided to complain about it. Especially when you have absolutely no history as a productive contributor to the wiki. But we will change it if a solid bloc of active, contributing users tells us it needs to be changed. You feel strongly about this? Convince the other users.

-- Looney Toons, admin

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

And why am I not surprised, three months later, that he never came back, he never tried to generate a consensus supporting his demand, and never made any other contributions besides these three messages?

Fool1901 (talkcontribs)

Another random schmuck here... this thread doesn't look great when taken out of context.

'So go read it in context' ... well, sure. I learned that Complete Monster was incredibly controversial and caused a wiki fork.

But bear in mind: new users get a banner at the top of the page, and 'here is how to change a rule' is the link in the banner. When you click on it, you get a blurb about changing the rules, and a link to this thread.

The result is that, the way things are now, this thread might well be one of the first 'meta' things someone new to AllTheTrops sees.

I know that it is hard to forget what you know, and pretend you are a new user to the site. I urge you try, and perhaps reconsider linking this thread like that. Thanks for listening.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

@Fool1901, you are right and the mods are wrong.

Since the line that had link in question didn't add anything to the page, I've removed it altogether.

This trope has a HUGE plagiarism problem

10
Summary by Looney Toons

Not any more, thanks to Utini501.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

So I was browsing the Fire Emblem page and realized that one entry (that fell short of this trope) was copy-pasted from TV Tropes well past the 2012 cutoff date. And after spending a bit more time comparing pages, a lot of entries are copy-pasted from TV Tropes circa 2017 to now. Here are links for reference: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MagnificentBastard/FireEmblem https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Magnificent_Bastard/Video_Games/Fire_Emblem

And keep in mind, this is just the Fire Emblem page alone. There's a lot of copy-pasted entries that violate this site's copyright rules, so I think a cleanup's in order. I don't want to just throw this at the mods since you guys are busy, but if people are okay with it I could make writing new entries something of an ongoing cleanup effort. Emphasis on "ongoing" because as my sporadic activity on this site will show, I'm a pretty busy guy myself, ha ha.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Regarding the Fire Emblem page, given that it was created in its entirety only 15 months ago, I think the best solution might be for you to make an offline copy to work from after which we nuke it to protect the wiki. I'd rather not let infringing material stay on the site any longer than it absolutely has to.

As for other infringing material, delete it outright as well.

CC: @Labster, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @Derivative, @SelfCloak, @GethN7

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

Alright, so I've copypasted everything from the various franchise pages onto a word document, so I can edit them until I come up with new versions that don't infringe on copyright.

When it comes to the genre subpages however, I have an idea that could save us a lot of time and headaches: I feel like a douche for calling a specific user out, but it seems the sole offender of copypasting entries from TV Tropes is the user DocColress. So what I was thinking is, what if I were to revert the pre-Colress edits to restore the pages to back when they were freshly ported from TV Tropes back during the site's founding? Would that be okay?

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Do it. They wanted to do something that they should know better for, then or now, it deserves reversion.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

Alright, I've knocked out all the genre pages. I'm pretty sure legit entries without plagiarism were caught up in the purges, and later on I'll go through them and restore the valid ones while removing redundant entries that are on franchise pages such as Dragon Ball, the MCU and the like. But for now, I'm going to focus on rewriting the plagiarized franchise entries. Thanks for giving me the okay to do this!

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

@Utini501, thank you for volunteering to take on this project.

Considering how long I've been spending years on identifying licenses for the images that don't have them and I'm only halfway through the job, I think we can give you the time you need to do this. :)

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

Just popping in to say good on your for this undertaking, @Utini501 - this leather pants gushing was something that should've been excised long ago in retrospect. I still wish it didn't result in the Example Sectionectomy of an otherwise fine trope, but the trouble just wasn't worth it, and I'm hoping it can be restored to something remotely resembling "normal" in the future.

Utini501 (talkcontribs)

Alright, as of today, consider this trope plagiarism-free! Sorry it took longer than it should have, it was surprisingly draining. The mods definitely deserve props for dealing with this kind of work on the regular!

Now if there's one last suggestion I'd make regarding this trope, I'd honestly say that just about every image on its various pages needs to go. One recurring thing I noticed aside from the plagiarism was images running into "Face with a caption syndrome", likely from the same guy posting all those plagiaristic entries. I can't say I really fault him though since this trope is very hard to capture in an image. I do like this image from the Sonic page, though! I'd actually request making it the main page image since it actually conveys what this trope is all about, but if the mods would rather leave it on the Sonic page, I'd understand.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

@Utini501, thank you again for doing this.

As for the images, I have no objection to getting rid of the "just a face and a caption" images. Mind you, I was the one who tagged them as JAFAAC to begin with... so it might be a good idea to get other people to weigh in here.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Let me second Rob's thanks. You've done a hell of a job here, and we really appreciate it. We should have been on top of this from the start and kept people from dumping so much plagiarized material into those pages, and we're very grateful that you just stuck in and took care of it.

As for images, yeah, anything that does not immediately and obviously illustrate the trope, as opposed to just showing someone who is an example of it, should be ruthlessly purged.

Is the current picture Just a Face and a Caption?

2
Summary by Robkelk

Even TVTropes thought so - the page now has no image, and the image that was here now illustrates All The Tropes:Just a Face and a Caption

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

As I post this, the page's current picture is of an actor looking into the camera, and the caption is "THE Magnificent Bastard". The image links to Smallville. For somebody like me who's never seen that show, this means nothing.

I suspect we have a case of Just a Face and a Caption here.

SelfCloak (talkcontribs)

Yeah..

The trope page on TVT has no image, they removed it and put it on their Image Links subpage.

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