Talk:Media Research Failure

Media Research Failure chosen.

Since this has "Needs a Better Title" tagged. TV Tropes has "Fact Check Failure" as a redirect. I suggest "Media Research Failure".

Pop Culture Callow is one I came up with. I added the category due to notable comments made by Kiwi Farms, they suggested to just put it under Did Not Do The Research and I had to point out the fact that DTDTR is a category for other tropes and isn't something for examples itself.

If anyone else has better ones than either of us please say because differentiating ourselves from TVT especially when it comes to smarter titles would be a good stepping stone from them.

Cynical from KF said that Media Research Failure was the least autistic name.

Fact Check Failure or Media Research Failure would be good.

I would suggest, however, we keep the original name as a redirect, since, like it or not, it's been SEOed to hell and back, and while we could easily pick a better name and bot all the other uses to the new one, I'd keep the original around as a redirect for (A) tradition, since it's become a part of troping zeitgeist for some time now and (B) SEO.

Given the wide usage of this trope in its current form, I do want a wider consensus to comment on this, so please tag in a few people to this conversation to give their opinions.

I was going to keep the redirect in either case so you have no disagreements there.

It being explicitly about media/pop culture means I'm therefore not for Fact Check Failure.

I'm fine with keeping original names as redirects in general, I only am for re-naming tropes when it's obvious that TVT people decided to use drugs instead of comment sense when it comes to name shit.

I always want wider consensus because it gives us larger confidence going forward, so tag in as many people as possible, I really do think taking pointers from outside like KF is a good step towards not going the same path as TVT.

Agreed, Get Bob and Rob to comment on this if you don't mind.

I posted this topic on the DW forums so they should, if they don't respond in 48 hours, we'll directly let them know.

What's wrong with the title it has?

I don't know about LulzKiller, but I don't like that it's a reference to a single incident, rather than self-evident on the face of it what it means.

How about "Non-Fan Dumb"?

Using that logic, I trust the next trope we will be renaming is The Spock

Spock (and Kirk and McCoy and Scully) are more than one incident in one newspaper (memetically mutated and propagated though the "Cowboy Bebop" image is), but I wouldn't object too strenuously to renaming them to Id, Ego, and Superego, provided we can work out which ones Kirk and McCoy are. "The Skeptical Paranormal Investigator" is longer and less catchy than "The Scully" but it would be serviceable.

Actually, I would consider that a false comparison.

Spock is a character from Star Trek, a media franchise of much wider renown that Cowboy Bebop, and Leonard Nimoy's iconic portrayal has spawned countless imitators.

In this case, the trope name NotaBene is criticizing is much more "provincial", for lack of a better word, limited to a single incident for a popular yet still somewhat niche series by comparison, and the trope itself has much broader connotations that the current name does not address.

It's considered unclear is the main argument, and I'd have to agree.

"Cowboy Bebop At His Computer" tells me nothing about the trope if I have no clue what the phrase references. The alternative suggestions lack the reference to the anime but are much more concise and informative.

I have to admit this is one of my favorite Esoteric Trope Names. I can understand the need to change it, though. And the more I think about it, the more I realize this is in fact nothing more than a special case of "Did Not Do The Research" committed by people for whom doing the research is part of what they do. "Pop Culture Callow" doesn't do it for me. "Non-Fan Dumb" comes closer, but still not right. Let me think on this. There's got to be some quick pithy way we can sum this up. "Too Lazy To Get It Right"? "Who Needs Facts When You Have Preconceptions"? I don't know. Yet.

Cynical suggested Media Research Failure.

That beats anything I suggested.

Remiss Reviewer Research? Don't trust anything you read (about TV)?

I don't really have a strong opinion here. Unlike categories/indexes where I think the esoteric names need to die die die, trope names like this kind of amuse me.

I would like to push to get an actual name candidate since there seems to be a general consensus to either change it or in the case of some that they don't care either way.

So far, SelfCloak, Geth, a user from KF and I have Media Research Failure as the preferred option.

If anyone doesn't come up with a better name that has consensus, I'll have to merge the pull request so to speak.

"Media Research Failure" might work, as this also seems to be a variation on Critical Research Failure.

It's been almost a week with no comments, can I rename this and be done with it?

Do we have a single title that most or all of us can agree on?

As mentioned before in terms of Media Research Failure.

@GethN7, @SelfCloak and I agreed.

Another non-ATT user also likes it for what it's worth.

You said it might work, which is a weak support.

@Labster doesn't seem to care per his comments.

@NotaBene hasn't commented specifically on that name but would like some form of a rename.

The only person who is openly against it is @Robkelk, who prefers for no rename whatsoever.

This seems to be the name with the most consensus, if you can find another one which has a better one, then I apologise for not noticing it.

"Media Research Failure" is ambiguous, however.

Go for it, then, unless someone else gainsays you in the next few hours.

Media Research Failure is fine by me.

I'm weakly against changing the name, to the extent that I'll occasionally grumble about kids these days when you do change the name. But not enough to actually argue against changing the name.

For the record, I'm not against Esoteric Names, I just think based on feedback I saw about TVT about this trope that it was probably wise to change this one, especially considering I had problems originally understanding what this trope was.

Looks like I'm outvoted, and "I had problems originally understanding what this trope was" is a good reason to rename a trope. Just keep the redirect, please.

Don't worry Rob, I insisted on just that.

I stated at the start I was going to keep the redirect.

After we all got sidetracked with various other things, I finally got around to re-naming it. I appreciate you all for giving your input.