Added a few examples of subtext that is either in or out of universe. Is it enough to repair the page? Can happily add more!
@Looney Toons @Agiletek @GentlemensDame883 @Goo Monster @HeneryVII @HornyLikeIAmA14YearOldGirl @Lequinni @RivetVermin @Umbire the Phantom @Utini501 @Jlaw @Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak
I'd say it's at least enough to pull the "tropestub" and "needs more examples" templates off the page. If you want to keep adding examples, well, who am I to stop you, as long as they're appropriate?
EDIT: And the cleanup template, too. But like it says, this is supposed to be an Omnipresent Trope. More examples are always good!
Agreed - and I'm the person who put the cleanup tag on the page to begin with. We have enough for a good start (and thus don't need the tags any more), and could always use more.
Seems okay I guess? Though I'm not sure what needed fixing in the first place.
There is no sense of the word where "I hope my deoderant's working" is the subtext for "Hello". It's more like internal monologue that happens to be going on at the same time as the conversation.
The problem is, I'm not well-versed enough in literature to write a good subtext page, but it always bugged me that on tvtropes this page was locked on a complete non-example.
Well... That example from Annie Hall has been on the TVT wiki since the long, long ago. 2006, even. The Other Wiki says on subtext:
A scene in Woody Allen's movie Annie Hall, in which subtitles explain the characters' inner thoughts during an apparently innocent conversation, is an example of the subtext of a scene being made explicit.
At least someone thinks its an example, and a good one. Subtext is things not said; conclusions inferred from actions that aren't explicitly stated in the work. I guess the example is technically an aversion, but it's the exception that proves the rule. Or, in an ordinary conversation, it would remain subtext, but here it's in the text.
Is this a good page? Not really. 90% of the content is one example. And there are exactly 0 mentions of Xena: Warrior Princess! *single tear*. Anyway, comb through the page history and see if you can come up with something. Or the wikipedia page.
And um, sorry about what happened before. Locking pages that need to be improved sounds kind of counter-intuitive to me.
"...conclusions inferred from actions that aren't explicitly stated in the work."
That's exactly what the current example is not. There is no way to infer the internal monologue from the conversation. It's just what the characters happen to be thinking at the time they're speaking, not some hidden meaning behind their words. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with wikipedia.
I'm not sure what you're apologizing for. If this page was ever locked on this wiki, I didn't notice it.
I'll see what I can do about improving it.
I'm apologizing for the behavior of the admins when you tried to do this change on TV Tropes. I guess you missed that subtext 😛
Acknowledge where you got the information by citing the URL in your edit reason, and I don't see why not.
Wikipedia is dual licensed under GPL/CC BY SA 3.0, and we are under CC BY SA 3.0, which is compatible with both licenses, so as long as you cite the URL of the information you obtained in your edit reason for attribution purposes, that would be acceptable.
I took the Wikipedia text you pasted, and made it a bit tropier. I hope you like it. Also, the Annie Hall example is actually a subversion, which is a bit weird as a trope example.
Subtext is way underlinked for how common a thing it is -- probably far more common than People Sitting on Chairs, even. Perhaps we need a Subtextual Tropes category?
Awesome, thanks.
I still don't know about Annie Hall. I still say it's an example of Inner Monologue rather than subtext.
It's not an example of subtext, it's a subversion of subtext. That's the point. If the Inner Monologue wasn't written out explicitly, it would be a scene full of subtext; but now it isn't, because it's all brought into the text. Examples of subtext are too boring to list because, as I wrote, every human action has subtext. (Including this one, natch.)
But what's brought into the text would not have been subtext otherwise. Without the subtitles, no one would be thinking "He's saying hello because he's worried about his deoderant." That line comes completely out of nowhere.
I've never actually seen the movie, but it seems that even with the subtitles, there's still subtext in that scene. For instance, "Leslie" never actually says she's attracted to the guy, but it can be gleaned from the subtext of her Inner Monologue that she does.