The Dresden Files/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


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  • For previous discussions, talk to Ivy

Other Wizards' Income

Harry is a professional wizard and he's just scraping by. How do the other wizards of the White Council make their living?

  • Harry being a professional wizard is probably the reason he's just scraping by. The other wizards either come from old, well-established families, have real jobs, or both.
    • Other wizards make a ton of money using their magic in subtle ways. The White Council has been around for literally millennia (Word of Jim is that they started the entire Renaissance in an effort to make humanity more capable of defending itself, and Harry says that the organization has existed since before Rome) and the combined economic power of its membership rivals First World countries. Just because they need a switchboard telephone to communicate with HQ doesn't mean they're not aware of economics and modern business; most older wizards are filthy, filthy rich.
      • Harry in particular doesn't have that kind of money because he's young, but also because he seems morally opposed to having it, or something.
        • He's not morally opposed to money at all, he's opposed to making money in ways that violate his morals. He could probably make a fortune selling potions that do various things (love potions among them), but he doesn't trust what people would do with them so he doesn't.

Depleted uranium?

Apparently Harry's ghost dust contains depleted uranium as one of its principal ingredients. Now, "depleted" only means that it can't be used to produce nuclear energy (or atomic weapons). That doesn't make it any less radioactive, or any less toxic completely apart from the radiation, than normal uranium. It's really not the sort of thing the government wants falling into civilian hands. How in the world does a guy living in Perpetual Poverty acquire any of it at all, let alone enough to fill up bags of ghost dust with?

  • Harry doesn't live in Perpetual Poverty. He's not swimming in money, but he's got enough discretionary income that he can theoretically spend it on illegal stuff like depleted uranium. Instead of spending his money on expensive electronics, he spends it on wizard-y stuff. And Harry very much sits on the dubious side of the law and has a reasonable-enough number of contacts of dubious legality that he can get things like that. Remember, he's a goddamn wizard; wizards are damned good at acquiring the odd, the strange, and the dubiously legal.
    • My friend has some uranium (a tiny amount) in his mineral collection. I assumed Harry got it from one of the vendors who'd sell those, while the Ghost Dust would be diluted with other materials.
    • Also the premises here are somewhat incorrect: depleted uranium is much less radioactive than ordinary uranium, to the point that it's actually used to shield to shield radioactive material (and normal uranium isn't actually that radioactive to start with; it's specifically enriched uranium that's nasty). It is, admittedly, still toxic though.
    • He probably only uses a very small amount - remember, the series' rules state that it's what the item represents (in this case, heaviness and solidity) that gives it power.


Harry's reasons for remaining areligious

One of the reasons Harry gives for not being Christian is that he doesn't think God would want someone like him hanging around heaven. However, the New Testament provides numerous instances that shows this isn't the case. Paul was actively murdering Christians before he converted. Matthew (or Levi, depending on which gospel you read) was a tax collector, and they were universally loathed in Roman Israel. There are accounts that have Jesus eating with prostitutes and other sinners. There's even a verse that covers this: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." (Matthew 9:12) It's subtly implied that Harry and Michael debate religion every once in a while, so how come this has never been brought up? Unless it has, and Harry's just saying it to convince himself.

  • Harry's a self-flaggelating cynic who still, on some level, honestly believes that he may turn into one of the bad guys. It's got nothing to do with actual religious practice and accounts from the Bible on the acceptability of his deeds, and everything to do with Harry having convinced himself he's not good enough for Heaven.
    I mean, looking at it objectively, Harry's punched Fallen Angels in the snout on several occasions, he's worked with all three-and-a-half Knights of the Cross directly, he's got an honest-to-God Archangel giving him personal advice and providing the literal fires of creation for his personal use, and more or less had the big G's personal endorsement when he went to kick the crap out of the Red Court in Changes if Murphy's Pre-Ass-Kicking One-Liner is any indication. I think it's pretty clear that God does, in fact, like one Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.
    Harry's just too busy kicking himself over the mistakes he's made, is all.
    • Rather than having reasons not to be religious, it's probably because he just doesn't feel like it. Harry defines himself as a wizard, and while he knows that there is a god, what he believes in is magic. He doesn't seem to think that his lifestyle could be combined with Christianity.
  • Remember that Harry is also wary of putting faith in God because he doesn't understand God. Specifically, he doesn't understand how God can (apparently) care so little about people as to permit evil to wreak havoc in the world, yet still care so much as to forgive mortals their failings, despite how horrible they can be to one another. He sees this as too big a contradiction to reconcile within a human moral perspective; and he's encountered so many things that claim to be exempt from human morals -- faeries, vampires, demons, Outsiders -- and then use that status to excuse their horrific misdeeds, that he's unwilling to trust in anything that claims such morally-inscrutable status for his, her, its, or even His self. God's nature, even if benign, is simply too alien for Harry to put faith in.
  • Harry doesn't just distrust God, but authority figures in general. It was a minor theme over the course of the series: he has his own patchwork moral system, and as sketchy and undefined as it gets at times, it's the only one he considers 'right'. Whenever he actually listens to the laws of magic, it's because it overlaps with his own morals (or because he's afraid of execution). He doesn't respect the Senior Council, or Queen Mab, or the mortal authorities. In later books, he still respects Ebenazar, but he doesn't bother to listen to him anymore, and oh, I bet it would be fun to make a list of all the times he broke the law. I suppose he holds Michael's moral views in high regard, but a system of faith in itself would be like an unrelated set of rules to him. (That, and he still seems bitter at the Christians for killing witches.)
    • he may believe that heaven doesn't want him because in the bible it says that witchcraft is evil and therefore wizards would be evil.
      • This one's pretty much entirely right out. Harry is well aware that the only reason the Bible says witchcraft is evil is because of King James's translation, and it originally specified evil magic users. He says as much on the page.

What happened to Bob in the end of Ghost Story?

  • Unless I've missed something, we last see him in the Never-Never fighting Evil Bob, and he's not seen again, even when Harry wants to check his friends are ok so he can move on. What gives?
    • Sequel Hook.
    • Well yeah but its like Harry has completely forgotten he existed. Unless that is what actually happened, seems a bit abrupt.
      • Harry probably just didn't have any idea where to look for Bob. The people he visited in the last few scenes were mostly at home, where he could easily find them.
    • Speaking of which I wonder if the fact that Bob will completely cease to exist when he dies, and is Harry's first and arguably closest friend is setting up for him dying - giving a massive Player Punch


Information gathering in Changes

  • In the book the spies for the Fellowship find out that Arianna has special plans for Maggie and know about the base where the data is being held. Why didn't they know the full details, and why didn't they find out where the ritual was too be held when Odin was able to find it? and why did the red court store that info in the base in Harry's office if the organization with the lowest amount of spies could find it?
    • That's how espionage and information gathering works. Just because you have one bit of data does not mean that you have access to everything relevant to that subject.
    • As for the office, its a data storage facility, not a military base. It would be suspicious if they had heavy security, especially considering that the Red Court has it masquerading as a data backup center. Any security capable of stopping Fellowship agents would likely be comparable to that of a military base, so its easier to keep that data concealed as opposed to heavily guarded.


Hiring Kincaid in Changes

  • Okay, so Harry's desperate to get any help he can get getting his daughter back in Changes. So, why doesn't he hire Kincaid? He hired him for something a lot less important, Harry probably doesn't give a damn about money at that point, he says that Kincaid is a hell of a badass in that book, and he even talks to Kincaid! I'm sure Kincaid's gunslinging skills would've been a great help to Harry.
    • Kincaid may be a badass, but that doesn't mean that Harry trusts him completely. Letting Kincaid in would mean he'd find out that Maggie is his daughter, and Harry doesn't want that information getting to anyone who doesn't need to know it. Plus, Kincaid may owe Harry a favor, but taking on the entire Red Court of vampires might be a little above and beyond what Harry expects to get out of said favor. Plus, Kincaid is still the caretaker for the Archive, and Harry might have thought he didn't want to put her at risk (again) by removing Kincaid from her service.
    • This is what will happen if he tries:

"Kincaid, I need you to help me assault the heart of the Red Court's power in Chichen Itza."
"You don't have enough money to hire me for that. Switzerland doesn't have enough money to hire me for that."
"You owe me."
"Not that much, Dresden." (click)

    • This is explained in Ghost Story. Harry did hire him to do something else, specifically to kill him at the end of the book.
      • Though he didn't know that at the time, so that would be the answer in terms of narration. The right answer still seems to be the one above.
  • Speaking of hiring Kincaid: who is protecting Ivy while Kincaid is off fighting blampires in Blood Rites?
    • Ivy is protecting Ivy. Kincaid is her driver. And teddy bear.
    • Yeah, recall that the only way the Denarians were able to capture her was by exploiting several weaknesses (her attachment to Harry and Kincaid, her physical limitations as a 12-year-old girl) and cutting her off from nearly all her magic--and the 2000-year-old cult of demonically powered killers still only barely managed to get her and took significant losses in the process.
    • For that matter, what's stopping Ivy from hiring a backup bodyguard while he's off taking care of business?
      • She trusts Kinchaid. A backup bodyguard could try to backstab her, which would be at least an inconvenience, and there probably aren't that many people who could replace him in the first place. If he doesn't make a good bodyguard (magic or no magic, she might still need someone who looks scary and can shoot really well), then she might as well hire a driver. Also, she probably likes having him around.

What ever happened to Little Chicago?

  • When the apartment building burned down in Changes, shouldn't burning Little Chicago have caused fires in real Chicago? Sure, fire destroys magic, but it should have at least caused a major heat wave before the magic gave out, shouldn't it? Could this mean that Harry's basement lab is still intact under the Better Future Society HQ?
    • Don't think the fire would have had any large-scale effect without any will being channeled into it at the time. Without being activated by magic, Little Chicago was just a cool model set.
      • Yeah, it was a magical focus for Harry, specifically, to use spells on, not a voodoo doll where any damage to it translates into damage to the city. It just doesn't work that way.
    • Little Chicago doesn't really allow for a transference of energy from it into the greater Chicago area. The only time anything carried over from Little Chicago to anywhere in the real world was when Harry specifically used rituals to connect himself or the oak leaf pin from Summer to the model. Unless Harry is specifically trying to work magic across Little Chicago, nothing will happen.
      • The model of the city works as a tool for Harry's Thaumaturgy, which is based on links, which probably means that the whole point is the pre-made link to each location. I have another issue there, though; Harry charged the thing with enough magical energy to blow up the whole basement if the spell went wrong, and it's been established elsewhere in the series that the energy has to go somewhere. Was there an extra explosion when the thing got burned down?
      • Foci don't have magic/energy stored in them, they are made so it's easier/more efficient to channel energy through them. Don't think of it as a fuel tank, think of it as an engine. Disrupting it while it's running (i.e., while Harry's casting a spell right then) will lead to disaster, but breaking it while it's off won't have any outside effect.
        • You're probably right, but I don't get why. Bob was the one who said that Harry charged it with lots of energy while creating it, so it seems like it works more like an engine with a battery and using the spell is more like driving the actual car, if you'll excuse my poor metaphor skills.
        • Even if it did contain some lingering energy from its creation, it presumably wasn't enough to blow the thing to bits. Either the energy just mingled with the heat of the fire and remained unnoticed, or it dispersed out over all of Chicago and was diluted too much to affect the city.


Fallen using "-el"

  • Minor nitpick: In Ghost Story, Uriel visibly takes offense at the idea of Harry leaving out the -el part of his name, since it means "of God" and is an important part of who he is. So how come the Nickelheads were allowed/wanted to keep that syllable when they Fell?
    • I don't see what you mean by "allowed". It's not like there's some celestial auditor that's going to go around to each of them and say, "Oh, since you fell, you're now Lasci. Can't let you have that -el!". As for what they "want," I don't think that comes into it, but you'll note that Lasciel's shadow doesn't bother correcting Harry when he starts calling her "Lash".
    • Because no one would take a demonic super-being seriously if its name was Lassie.
      • Lucifer's name means 'light bearer', which implies more good than bad, and he never seems to mind. Who knows if the fallen even care.
      • Well, their modus operandi in christian mythology is supposedly to pretend they are "good", so keeping the "el" would help a lot.
    • It's also possible that the Fallen continue to use the -el as a form of mockery or insult.
      • The names in the Dresdenverse are connected to the actual being. Harry sometimes changed beings by giving them names, but there was no indication that any of them could have done it themselves. (Though my theory is kinda stupid, since unlike the fairies, they could theoretically still lie instead of actually changing anything. Meh.)


Toot-toot power

  • This just bugs me. In TT (toot-toot)'s 1st appearance in SF he is small and weak. By his latest appearance in TC, he is considerably stronger (even though, by anyone else's standards he is still small and weak). Now I know that most of the violence he has done over the series he has done with plastic coated cold iron, and that he is the commander of the "Harry gives us Pizza" crew, But over the series he has grown. In the later books he is not only more brave and I think more powerful, but actually physically taller. It seems obvious that TT has some how Took a Level In Badass even if said level was from "Useless and insignificant power wise" to "still weak, but seemingly 10 times more powerful than any other comparable entity (minor fae/dewdrop fairy) in the series" How?
    • It's explicit that a Faerie's power is directly proportional to their fame and notoriety. Toot Toot gained both by leading the Za Lord's Guard--every other Pixie knows him and has heard of his courage. In Faerieland, that sort of thing translates into real, tangible power.


Changlings in SK

  • I'm pretty sure that it is explicitly mentioned in SK that all of the changlings (fix,ace,lily,Meryl,ect) Harry meets were WINTER changlings! so how did Aurora put the Summer Knight's power in lily? one would think that her winter blood would have rejected it, or made it in someway incompatible with her. Same for Fix. While we're on the subject, I'm pretty sure it's said at some point that the Knights must choose to accept the mantle of Summer/Winter knight. That the power can't be forced onto someone. After all, Harry had to choose it. He turned mab down at least twice. So how did Aurora get Lily to become Summer knight, (assuming that she can even though lily has winter blood, see above)
    • It doesn't work that way. Fae are fae, and Winter/Summer isn't some impenetrable biological certainty so much as it is a choice, especially for changelings, who retain some mortal free will; it's like saying that someone born and raised in State College, PA can't go to Michigan because they bleed the Blue and White of Penn State. As for having to choose, you don't think Aurora, a vastly powerful entity in her own right, couldn't have "persuaded" Lily to take on the mantle? There's nothing saying the Knight can't be coerced into taking the power, and when you're a scared, nearly powerless changeling faced with one of the rulers of a whole court of Fae, you probably say, "How high?" when they say "Jump."
    • Changelings are mortal, which is the only requirement to be a Knight. Whatever side they're from is irrelevant; a full-on Winter fae or Winter Knight could not take that power, but a Winter-blooded changeling apparently because they're still mortal. As for how Aurora made Lily a Knight, well, there's no evidence that a mortal cannot be forced to become a Knight. It's just that it is a generally bad idea to force Knighthood on someone. Mab could have forced Knighthood on Harry, but that wouldn't have made him any more receptive to serving her. And keep in mind that there does appear to be a, ah, ritual required to make someone a Knight, and forcing said ritual on said prospective Knight will really make them unreceptive to you. (which means that, yeah, apparently Aurora literally raped that power into Lily, judging by how Mab makes Harry her Knight)
    • Perhaps I'm not remembering right, but didn't Lily become the Summer Lady, not Knight?
    • At the end of the book, yes. But Aurora's plot included Lily becoming the Summer Knight earlier in the book.
      • She was just a temporary vessel to store the power in until it can be returned to Summer Queen, not a Knight. ---- "How does the mantle pass on from one Knight to the other?" Mother Queen smiled, but the expression was a grim one. "It returns to the nearest reflection of itself. To the nearest vessel of Summer. She, in turn, chooses the next Knight."


The Shroud In Death Masks

  • I know this is kind of basic, but I never really understood the part that the shroud played in Nicodemus's plans. There are numerous references to it being a battery, or potentially being an artifact of Epic faith magic, I don't really understand why nico needed it for the plague curse. And while we're on the subject, I thought that plgue curse was supposed to be badass. When they tested it out, the poor shmuck got like every single disease in the world in the same instant and died nearly instantaneously of organ failure. Plus it is stated that the curse isn't going to last very long, but during it's time it would "make the black death look like chicken Pox" the black death is famous for allowing those infected with it to "eat breakfast with their family , and dinner with their ancestors" translated: it can kill you dead in less than 24 hours. And this plague curse is supposed to be worse. so why oh why did harry and Co, only get a subtle fever and aching joints and headaches after being exposed to the curse in the desecrated chapel?
    • Because Nicodemus never cast the full-scale curse. That's kinda the point, Dresden stopping him from unleashing it. The disease the curse brings about isn't, on its own, enough to spread a contagion. The power of the Shroud, and the belief in it, was meant to fuel the curse and send the disease world-wide.
    • Ok tell me where I go Off track. Nico casts the curse in the chapel using Shiro's suffering and somehow tapping into faith magic (Which doesn't make much sense since the shroud derives it's power from association with christ, who was about as good as nico is evil) to power it. After that, I thought the curse was already supposed to be in full swing. I'm pretty sure shiro said the plague is already happening, and that all harry could do now was to get the shroud off of nico before he could escape chicago to wonder the globe spreading uberdeath like freaking typhoid mary. Now that I mentioned it, shiro did say that the Plague GREW the longer it existed. That makes alot of sense considering that nickelhead magic gets more power with increased death and suffering. Maybe the plague just hadn't killed enough people or otherwise generated enough negativity to become transmitable Uberdeath yet.
      • It's not that complicated. The germs/viruses created by the spell are constructs, like most things created by magic in the series. Cut them off from their power source, and they break down into ectoplasm that disappears in moments. Nicodemus is powering the spell that creates them using the Shroud. Cut one from the other and the spell collapses.
      • Also, the Shroud's association is irrelevant. It is an artifact of power, which doesn't care how it is used. Uranium doesn't care if the guys using it are "good" or "evil" either. The Shroud's power can be used for good or ill.
  • ok one: how is the shroud creating the germs? I thought it was the other way around. Nico made them and the shroud is power. two: Power is not neutral in this series. for example, michael has power, but it is clearly GOOD power, because it burns evil creatures and wanes as he succumbs to negative emotions like rage, and it is implied that if he did something that could in the loosest sense be considered immoral, he would lose them. Which works out because he wont do something like that. Even if you don't believe that faith magic is different than harry magic then consider this. For the first six or so books Harry believes that all magic comes from life. It can be twisted to kill, but he believes that there was no such thing as inherently evil magic. This beleif was destroyed when he rechannels the Malocchio in BR. and if there is purely evil power, than their should be purely good power as well. lets not forget, the fallen are hesitant to go into churches or all that other stuff. so why would they display no hesitance in using something a hell of a lot closer to god than any church they've ever seen?
    • No, the Shroud isn't creating the germs. But if you pull the power source away, they break down. This is true for any construct. Most spell-slingers are powering constructs themselves, but to even create the plague you need something as powerful as the Shroud; even the "test run" the Denarians did required a piece of the Shroud to pull off.. Cut off the Shroud from the caster, and the caster doesn't have the metaphysical muscle to maintain the spell.
    • Second, you're mistaking personal power for the power of an artifact. Power wielded by individuals, be it faith-based or otherwise, can be inherently good or evil because the power they wield is directly influenced by their own emotions and beliefs. Power in artifacts is neutral; it can be twisted one way or the other. Power as a whole is neutral until the individual twists it one way or the other. The Shroud is a battery; batteries don't care if they're used for good or ill, they just provide power. That power only becomes good or evil once it is used for something; up until it is used it is neutral.
    • Now that's just plain not true. If the power of an artifact is not inherently good or inherently good or evil, How in the hell do you explain the swords of the cross? They radiate so much "inherently good" power that creatures of evil get 3rd degree burns from even trying to hold them! and the shroud and the swords both draw from the same source. God! if that's not inherently good magic, I don't know what is. Furthermore, I believe it says at some point in turn coat that the Ley line that runs beneath Demonreach is pure evil magic that will corrupt harry if he tries to draw from it.
      • It's deliberately unclear whether or not the Shroud and Swords' power comes from God Himself, or if it's from the collective faith of those that believe in Him. The Swords in particular seem to be strengthened more by individual faith, while it's unclear if the Shroud is even really the shroud that was on Jesus Christ when he was buried. The swords, which were purpose built and faith fortified with fighting evil in mind, are not really comparable to the Shroud, which is a may-or-may-not-be-real artifact that's kind of 'accidentally' fortified with faith.
        That said, no, I don't think that's what was said about Demonreach. Ley lines are not good or evil--but the Genius Loci of Demonreach may be a different story, and that is what's being referred to...and in any case, Harry most definitely taps into the power of Demonreach, and is not apparently corrupted by it.
      • How in the hell do you explain the swords of the cross? They radiate so much "inherently good" power that creatures of evil get 3rd degree burns from even trying to hold them! The Swords are a different matter altogether, being holy artifacts specifically bequethed by archangels, as opposed to an artifact empowered by energy through belief and faith like the Shroud. Even then, the Swords are only as holy as the intent of the one who wields them. A Sword used with less-than-righteous intention becomes useless; a Sword used to murder an innocent is just a chunk of metal that can be destroyed. The Shroud is the same way - it depends on the intentions of the one who wields it.
      • and the shroud and the swords both draw from the same source. God! if that's not inherently good magic, I don't know what is. No. The Shroud is empowered by the belief of worshippers. Whether or not it is empowered by God is unclear, but either way it can be used for good or ill.
      • Furthermore, I believe it says at some point in turn coat that the Ley line that runs beneath Demonreach is pure evil magic that will corrupt harry if he tries to draw from it. No. The ley line is described as "dark" energy, and the entity that resides on the island is hostile to outsiders, but it is not inherently "evil" - it is just energy.
  • Maybe you are right about the shroud, but the swords defenitely qualify as good magic. and as for demonreach? you must have been reading a different book than I was because my book had harry explicitly state that the sanctum invocation gave him intellectus on the island, and allowed his magic to be focused because it is more in tune with its environment, or as harry put it, more bang for my (magical) buck on the island. That is COMPLETELY seperate and apart from drawing on the Lay line of dark power that flows through the center of the island and allowed the genius loci to become so powerful. (witness the genius Loci defending the hut from Shagnasty) Harry specifically said he didn't touch that power, and had no plans to. Plus his elders (indjun joe and McCoy) explicitly tell him that he is far to young to tap into that power without becoming a corrupted abomination of some kind.
    • Well, yes, as I said, the swords were purpose-built to be good magic by whoever initially forged them, and feed off the will and faith of its wielder, so it's good because the faith going into it is good--and anyway, the issue in that book was about the Shroud's use, not the swords. As for Demonreach, it's been a long while since I read the book, so I might be misremembering the details. I could have sworn Harry tapped into the power while fighting the Skinwalker.
      • Harry didn't directly tap into the ley line. However, Demonreach was supporting him while he was on the island, effectively subdividing his magic. It allowed him to use it more effectively, giving him more oomph to his spells. That's the only reason he was able to do so much damage to Shagnasty.
    • One thing that needs to be noted: The Swords were created to be artifats of good. The Shroud was not created to be such. It is, almost literally, an accident. An object that gains its power through reverence and belief, not purpose-made to be a weapon of holy power.

Where was bob while harry was apprenticed to Ebenezar?

  • This is really bugging me. Harry gets adopted by duMorne. Dumorne attempts to enthrall harry, harry escapes. Harry kills Dumorne, burns down his house and finds a snarky knowledge spirit named bob inhabiting a skull in the basement. THEN he was arrested by the wardens, who probably would have recognized something like bob and confiscated it and never let harry see it/him again. after the trial, he becomes apprenticed to McCoy and goes to live in some remote country backwater in the middle of the Ozark mountains. Bob is not mentioned. Then somehow, after Harry's apprenticeship is over, blah, blah ,blah, non important events until the beginning of SF. and he has bob again. Did Harry hide him somewhere and then go get him after he was done with eb? where? we certainly know that he didn't have bob when he was arrested by the wardens, or else they would have taken bob. Where was he that whole time?
    • Yes, he hid Bob. Specifically, he buried Bob in a hole in the ground somewhere for the duration of his apprenticeship with McCoy, as mentioned in the side notes of the RPG books. Bob was not happy about it.
  • P.S. Can I or someone else maybe put a few of the above discussions in the archive? this page is a little long and some of the conversations are old.

Lord Raith's Mind Rape

  • What exactly did lara do to Lord raith at the end of BR? I mean, we know that afterwords, lara is the de facto ruler of the court, but what exactly is left of Raith? is he like a mindless shell that obeys lara but can pretend to have enough personality to act as the whi9te king at public functions? is he fully functional but afraid of/addicted to lara feeding on him?
    • The same thing that Lord Raith does to his own daughters: Rapes them, hits them with the typical white court mental whammy, feeds on them, and breaks their will to the point they become his servants. This is pretty explicitly described. Also, please, please work on your grammar and capitalization. It's not a race. Take a couple minutes to proofread so you get names right and don't insert random numbers into words, please.
  • It's not like I meant to type that! Besides, I was in a hurry.
    • Which is why I said, "It's not a race." What's the rush? If you don't have time to do some basic proofreading, then write the entry later.
    • Papa Raith is a mind-slave of Lara's. There's not much of his original mind left; this is most apparent during White Night when Papa Raith starts talking directly to Harry, but he address Lara, and there is a pause before Papa Raith speaks again, indicating that Lara is mind-controlling him. She broke his brain, slaved him to his will, and made him little more than a puppet with just enough mind to himself to keep from shitting and pissing himself when she's not controlling him directly.
    • I'm not so sure. We keep saying that what Lara did to Raith was the same thing Raith did to his daughters. That doesn't make any sense, since it is supposed to turn the victim into a mindless slave. Lara (who supposedly had this done to her by Raith) is NOT a mindless slave, implying that the control couldn't be that complete.
    • I was under the impression that what Lara did was the same thing Raith did, but considerably stronger- Raith just wanted his daughters obedient and submissive, but Lara wanted to make certain that her dad wasn't going to break free any time soon (and I imagine there was a certain amount of vindictiveness involved, too- he treated her remarkably horribly, and when you add in the fact that even relatively human vamps like Lara can still be inhumanly vicious, you've got a major recipe for revenge). At least that was my take; anyone have a different one?
      • Papa Raith broke his daughters' wills, but Lara Raith broke her father's mind. We see something similar with what Madeline did to the lawyer in Turn Coat, where she deliberately enslaved and controlled the woman's mind. Papa Raith raped his daughters, pitted their Hunger against his, defeated them, and made sure they knew they could not win in a struggle of wills. However, he left them with their minds so they could be useful to him. Lara didn't offer her father the same chance; once she defeated his Hunger, she broke his mind and made him nothing but a thrall.


What Were the Faeries Up To In Proven Guilty?

  • There has always been 2 plot points in these books that I didn't get. One of them was the shroud thing in DM, and thats already here. The other one is PG. Ok, I understand that molly used magic to help her friends and all that. What I don't quite get is the winter court's involvement. why exactly were the fetches there? why did harry's spell send them to the carpenter's house? Why did they take her to Arctis Tor? From what I got, it had something to do with the fact that molly had used her magic to impose fear. That whole plot is a little murky to me. And could someone please explain to me why arctis tor is so deserted? or why mab was in her own torture chamber?
    • Hoo boy. This one is complicated, and it basically boils down to this: Lily and Maeve were working together to get Summer troops to support the White Council against the Red Court. They're both dealing with the issue of Winter troops sitting on the border of Summer, preventing them from intervening, and they needed something to draw the Winter troops away so Summer could hit the Reds. They decided to solve it by using Harry Dresden. The plan is to get Harry on top of Arctis Tor and give him something to shoot at, and let him do his thing. To that end, they targeted Molly with the fetches; the fetches used the black magic Molly was using to induce fear as a beacon to enter the real world from the Nevernever. When harry redirected the fetches at their "summoner" he was directing them back to the beacon Maeve was using to send them across into the real world, and they kidnapped Molly. At that point they took her to Arctis Tor, and Harry followed, helped along by the Summer fire Lily gave him, and dumped that fire into Winter's wellspring, pulling all of Winter back to Arctis Tor.
      Now, was this plan convoluted, overly complex, and prone to failure? Yes. But these are faeries; that's how they roll.
      As for Arctis Tor, they were attacked by the Black Council. Why? No one knows. Why was Mab sealed in the ice on the rooftop? No one knows. It'll likely be explained later on in the series once we know more about the Black Council.
      • Mab wasn't sealed in ice, as I recall. She made a quick apparition, winking at Harry to let him know she was watching.
    • Ok that explains a lot. But I knew about the BC attack already. That was basically spelled out for us. What I meant was, Why is the castle so completely deserted in the wake of such a massive attack? and if said attack was so bad, why didn't THAT bring all of winter back from summer's borders? Who cares about a contested border when your head of state is getting her all powerful (and very attractive) ass handed to her in the seat of her own power? for that matter, if the courts always go for any exposed weakness, why did'nt summer go on the offensive while winter was weakened by the BC assault? it's all very weird.
      • Like the other troper said, Summer's forces were being held at bay by Winter's forces miles away from Arctis Tor. That's why it's deserted, because Mab's got everyone else someplace else.
      • Why is the castle so completely deserted in the wake of such a massive attack? and if said attack was so bad, why didn't THAT bring all of winter back from summer's borders? Who cares about a contested border when your head of state is getting her all powerful (and very attractive) ass handed to her in the seat of her own power? Word of Jim is that Mab was never in any serious danger at all, and the attack was for something entirely different. If the BC had seriously fought Mab in the heart of her power, the end result would have been quick and very, very cold for them.
        • Nope, they had a lot of firepower with them and would take her down in direct combat. It would be stupid of them to attack otherwise, and if anything they know what they are doing and are pretty careful about it.
        • Word of God has said otherwise. They attacked while Mab was out of the office, otherwise she would have frozen them solid. Remember that Butcher himself has said that it would take the entire White Council, with Mab's Name, and fighting Mab in the mortal realm, to defeat her; if the Black Council could tackle Mab in the heart of her own domain, where she can effectively alter reality at will, they wouldn't need to muck about with god-power rituals or hide from the White Council or work on coups from the shadows. They would just roll over to Edinburgh and flatten the place. The only way the attack makes sense is if they hit while Mab was elsewhere or otherwise disabled, because their demonstrated power elsewhere is insufficient to tackle the Winter Queen in the heart of her own domain.
          Furthermore, the damage is inconsistent with the kind of destruction that would be expected if two lesser deities were to take a swing at one another. Mab's power is comparable to archangels. Archangels can potentially destroy planets. The fact that the only damage inflicted to Arctis Tor was to the gate and superficial damage to the walls indicates that whatever happened, the forces thrown back-and-forth were not of the world-ending type, and Mab is certain to go all-in with her power if someone of godly strength was kicking in her door.
      • for that matter, if the courts always go for any exposed weakness, why did'nt summer go on the offensive while winter was weakened by the BC assault? They weren't weakened in any real meaningful way by the BC attack. The contents of a single castle, even one containing Mab's elite guard, would amount to a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean that is Winter's military might. Summer probably lost a comparable, if not larger, amount of manpower fighting the Reds in Oregon, and by the time anyone was in any position to attack, both sides had enough manpower back on the borders to make any attack futile.
      • it's all very weird. ....and? These are faeries. On a good day, what they do might vaguely make sense to mortals.
    • "If the BC had seriously fought Mab in the heart of her power, the end result would have been quick and very, very cold for them" REALLY?! We know for a fact that mab was pissed at whoever attacked AT because she was so pissed off in Small favor. that means she definitely didn't let them destroy AT and if she didn't let them, I imagine she must have been fighting them. remember this wasn't just one castle. It is the heart of winter's power. Full to the brim with the most Nightmarishly powerfull beings in all of winter faery, all of whom are made even more hideously powerfull just for being in AT,since it is at the center of winter's power. Not to mention the structure itself was saturated in enough winter mojo to put out a forest fire. and the black council melted through all of that like ice cubes in a kitchen sink! I think its been pretty much established that Mab couldn't have just waved her hand and turned the attackers into bigbadsicles.
      • REALLY?! We know for a fact that mab was pissed at whoever attacked AT because she was so pissed off in Small favor. that means she definitely didn't let them destroy AT and if she didn't let them, I imagine she must have been fighting them. Fallacious assumption, not backed up by facts. If Mab had been present at the battle, at the heart of her power, nothing short of a deity or an archangel could have taken that place. Heavy-hitters were definitely present, but there's no evidence of a god assaulting the site, as evidenced by the fact that the site is still standing and Mab is still intact. It stands to assume that Mab wasn't present when Arctis Tor was stormed.
      • remember this wasn't just one castle. It is the heart of winter's power. Full to the brim with the most Nightmarishly powerfull beings in all of winter faery, Assumptions not backed up by evidence. Mab's elite guard was present, but the composition of the other forces in Arctis Tor is not specified. For all we know the place was under guard by a skeleton defense force with the majority of the Winter forces on the border with Summer.
      • Not to mention the structure itself was saturated in enough winter mojo to put out a forest fire. and the black council melted through all of that like ice cubes in a kitchen sink!' No. The Black Council broke down the gates. They massacred the defense force. Arctis Tor itself was almost completely intact and suffered no real damage in the assault beyond the gates.
      • I think its been pretty much established that Mab couldn't have just waved her hand and turned the attackers into bigbadsicles. Yes, she could have. Mab could theoretically take on the entire White Council outside of her domain, with the Council knowing her Name, and stand a chance of winning. Inside her domain, at the heart of her power, she would roflstomp any attacker short of a major deity.
  • maybe ur are right, but still, even if they did leave the majority of the structure of AT intact, they DID melt the gate which was supposed to be 60 feet thick and made of solid ice infused with centuries of winter mojo. Thats a lot of power. whether they actually got or injured mab or not, Harry pretty much said that it would have taken something on par with a god/archangel to do to even give anyone at AT a slight fever, let alone burn through 60 feet of solid magic ice.
    • No. The gate was not sixty feet thick. The tunnel was sixty feet long, with a gate at one end that wa sbattered down. And Harry never said it would take a god/archangel to "give anyone at AT a slight fever." He said it would take either the entire Senior Council + the Wardens, all of the vampires, or a god/archangel to assault AT and inflict the kind of damage that they witnessed.


The noose

Why would Nicodemus's noose protect him from all harm? It doesn't make much sense, because the noose was explicitly used for hanging. And why would it allow him to mandate a death that cannot be avoided? The explanation given doesn't make much sense: because the Jews could give one prisoner life, Nicodemus can choose someone to die. There really isn't much association between Judas's suicide and Barabbas.

  • The noose is obviously an incredibly potent magical artifact, but we know nothing about how it acquired its powers or what happened to it between Judas' suicide and Nick's acquisition of it. If this information is revealed at all, I imagine it won't happen until it's time to deal with Nicodemus for good.
  • The Bible is also somewhat unreliable regarding specifics, and don't forget that Nicodemus makes it a point to destroy all records relating to him as often as he can. Our actual knowledge regarding the noose is unreliable in general.
  • Since the Fallen inhabit thirty pieces of silver, artifacts of the betrayer are obviously powerful conduits for them.
    • The denarii are more justifiable than the noose: thirty pieces of silver that bought Jesus' life would have a very unholy aura about them from their reputation. The noose, however, is what Judas used in regret for betraying Jesus; it might not be holy, but it's not completely unholy either, and the link to Barabbas is arbitrary until possibly justified in later books.
      • You're right that the connection is arbitrary, because there is no direct connection. The Barrabus curse is just named after him. The entropy curse that the noose inflicts is likely just that - an ability of the noose, not directly connected to the right the Romans granted the Jews beyond being the opposite. They just named the curse because it was vaguely and tangentally related to Barrabas. I don't see any direct connection beyond the name, which is not really an issue, I would say; the Barrabus curse is just named that because whoever coined it saw a vague, tangental relation, which is not uncommon in the history of human naming conventions.
    • The Noose protects Nicodemus for the same reason that Harry pointng a stick at someone and yelling "Fuego" results in hilarity and a serious need for burn ointment: magic. I don't see an issue with the noose having an established magical property unless it contradicts another rule regarding magical properties elsewhere in the lore. If in this setting, the Noose protects its wearer from all harm, then it damn well protects him from all harm.
      • The RPG lists the noose as an item of power; this implies that it's less that the noose has those properties intrinsically, and more that someone (or something...) gave it those properties for Nicodemus to use. And remember it was used to commit suicide--which, in Catholic beliefs, is a mortal sin in itself, aka a one-way ticket to hell, which gives it a handy connection to the sorts of powers that'd be likely to make such an item for Nick.
        Also, as with the Shroud, the books are rather unclear as to whether it really is the rope that Judas actually hung himself with. It's entirely possible it's a duplicate or approximation made long afterward.
      • Indeed. It is entirely possible that the Noose is just that: a regular noose that was given power. It is also important to note that the Church's knowledge of Nicodemus' powers is spotty at best; the noose might not have the power to curse anyone and this might just be disinformation. Until we know more about the Noose, we can't really say.
  • Remember that we'd already seen Nicodemus intentionally reverse the benevolent aspect of a revered artifact (the Shroud), from something alleged to heal the sick to something that powers a horrific plague-curse. Reversing the noose's ability to enable a suicide in remorse for sin into something that preserves a villain's life so he can continue to sin, or turning the option to spare a life into the option to take one, is entirely up his alley.

Elaine's Chain

Elaine's lightning chain is said to be rechargeable by plugging it into a wall socket or via thunderstorm. Of course when Harry's describing it no mention is made of a plug on either end of the chain like it is with Harry's version of it,so how does she plug it in?. Also reduced voltage issues aside shouldn't a magical item that carries the stored power of a thunderstorm or apartment/house's worth of electricity dealt a lot more damage to Thomas than it did given what Harry's did to Tessa?.

    • A detachable plug to insert into an outlet can be bought at just about any store that stocks hardware, and from there it is trivially easy to connect the chain to the outlet. And its quite obvious that she didn't hit Thomas with maximum force, for the same reason that Harry doesn't unleash all of his magical reserves in a single spell. Elaine was limiting the amount of force used, both to avoid killing Thomas and in case she needs to smack someone else. Unleashing the electrical charge of a lightning bolt inside the boat would also likely result in itty bitty pieces of the boat, Harry, and Thomas raining down around the harbor, too.
    • It also bears mentioning that when Harry used his on Tessa he got her to bite down on it, then made it plug directly in a wall outlet. I don't recall if Elaine's chain was attached to an outlet at the time she attacked Thomas.

Ivy's identity

Ivy didn't have a name until Harry gave her one. How exactly does that work, legally speaking? Did she go by fake names all the time, or just kept herself out of normal human society?

  • The latter. The Archive isn't supposed to interact with people, and the White Council has serious issues with her developing as much of a friendship as she has with Dresden as it is.
    • The Council doesn't control the Archive, though. She seems to just go around being her important political self.
    • But, the same scene that it was mentioned mentions it's a survival trait. Once becoming the archive, they isolate themselves to prevent madness. AND Ivy's parents were not around to name her.
  • When you're the living repository of all recorded knowledge, things like having a "legal" name, or laws in general, are irrelevant to you.
    • She's too young to have an ID anyway, and I suppose that if she ever needed to pass as a normal girl, Kinchaid could pretend to be her guardian. So fake names, it is.
  • She knows every recorded fact about every legally-documented person on Earth. If anyone's going to be able to commit a foolproof identity theft any time they feel the need, it's Ivy.

Where's McCoy during Ghost Story?

Harry looks in on just about everyone important to him during the book, except his grandfather? Why did Harry not think of this, especially after he made a big deal about remembering to check on Thomas?

  • The White Council is up to its bald spots in handling trouble as it is; the last thing Ebenezar needs is a spectral grandson paying him a visit - and a spectre of any kind paying a visit to the Blackstaff is likely going to cause trouble regardless. And Harry doesn't really need to check on him, because he's the goddamn Blackstaff and can take care of himself to an epic degree.
    • This. Harry wasn't checking on everybody he'd ever liked, he was checking on those who'd most depended upon him. He didn't look in on Elaine either.
    • Also, Harry didn't go anywhere that wasn't in Chicago. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that he couldn't leave Chicago at all.
      • Certainly he couldn't risk going far when he was using his grave for shelter during the day.
    • McCoy probably has defenses against spirits in operation all over his home, which would prevent ghost-Harry from dropping by.


The Knights' treatment of Cassius

In hindsight, the way Michael and Sanya treat Cassius isn’t very Knight-of-the-Cross-ish. When Cassius surrenders his coin and asks for mercy, they know full well he’s lying about trying to turn his life around, but they don’t do anything about it. Sanya says Shiro exposed the lies of his Fallen, which is what made him give up the coin, but he doesn’t try to do the same for Cassius. As soon as Cassius asks for mercy, they walk away without another word, knowing that he’ll ask Nicodemus for another coin as soon as he can. They don’t have anywhere they need to be, so they had plenty of time to try talking to him. It’s like poking an alcoholic until he gives up drinking just to shut you up, and then not only do you not get him to anything resembling Alcoholics Anonymous, you leave beer lying around and don’t try to stop him when he starts drinking again.

  • Except Shiro didn't do anything of the sort. Sanya's own recounting of how he threw off Magog says that he discovered the lies for himself and willingly abandoned Magog, fully accepting that he was going to die. Once you've given up the coin, your choices are your from that point on. Sure, they could have tried to stay and talk to Cassius, but his actions had already made it clear that the first thing he's going to do is run to Nicodemus and get another coin. They can't really talk down someone that willing to commit evil. And they do have to be somewhere; Nicodemus is about to unleash his apocalypse plague, so the Knights have to hit the airport, and Harry has to go kick Ortega's ass. They don't have time to sit down and try to convert Cassius away from evil.
    • Although I will admit I got the "plenty of time" part wrong, several people say that the purpose of the Knights is to save those from evil, not to kick evil, supernatural ass. Sanya and/or Michael ought to be sitting down and trying to convince Cassius away from evil. Michael says that, "This might be the only chance Cassius has to turn aside from what he has chosen." And yet he does absolutely nothing to help Cassius. However, he also says, "I cannot sit in judgement on this man's soul," so maybe he wants Cassius to convert completely of his own free will, no matter how unlikely it is.

Furthermore, if Harry torturing Cassius for information is bad, then Michael and Sanya letting it happen is just as bad, if not worse. In Catholicism, not doing something you should is called a sin of omission. One person described it as, "He who has the ability to act on an injustice, but who stands idly by, is just as guilty as he who holds the knife." And then they laugh about it, taking pleasure in another person’s misfortune. How is that acting in accordance with what the Knights of the Cross stand for?

  • Who said that the Knights were Catholic? And its not the Knights' job to protect someone from the consequences of their own actions. If Cassius, in support of a great evil, refuses to tell Harry where Nicodemus is doing his apocalypse plague, then he has to deal with what follows. And they kind of have to let Harry do what he does, considering that they need that information. Remember, also, that the Knights are not perfect avatars of virtue and justice and goodness and all that. They're individuals chosen to wield giant sharp pieces of steel to run around smiting the faces off things that threaten the free will of mankind. Sanya, notably, is actually quite satisfied when Harry beats the piss out of Cassius. The Knights are permitted to be pretty brutal when it comes time to deal with the forces of evil; remember, these guys sit in the same corner as Uriel, Heavenly assassin and slayer of the firstborn of every household in Egypt. Uriel has likely done things that would make Harry's treatment of Cassius look like a slap on the wrist. Good Is Not Nice is the mantra here.
    • Michael is very Catholic, and concept of sins of omission has extended into other Christian denominations (yes, I know Sanya is agnostic/atheistic). If they need the information so badly, couldn't they do it themselves, rather than stand around and claim they're not doing anything wrong? Sanya wanted to do it, as mentioned, but if it's necessary, there's no real reason he couldn't, especially if Good Is Not Nice. And Michael explicitly says that he's not supposed to be the Fist of God: "The purpose of the Knights is not to destroy those who serve evil."
    • Hmm. In this case, I would think that they are letting things slide a bit because they don't like Cassius. They are obligated to not harm him once he has given up his coin and surrendered, because that is part of being a Knight. That shouldn't be equated to them believing he should be redeemed or shown mercy, as they clearly don't. They know he's a mass-murdering sadistic freak, and if it were up to them, they probably would just chop his head off. As Michael states, however, it isn't up to them. They spare Cassius out of their sense of duty, nothing more. And, similarly, duty requires them to stand against supernatural beings threatening mortals, not mortals threatening one another. If Harry wants to beat Cassius with a baseball bat until he spills the beans as to where Shiro (their friend and colleague, currently being tortured to death) is being held, well, they aren't obligated as Knights to get involved. So they don't. It isn't right, but as was said, the Knights aren't always perfect paragons of morality. Not even Michael.
    • At this point, Cassius is hardly a poor, tortured soul who's going to "realize" the "error" of his ways--he'd had his Fallen for thousands of years, was committed to their cause, and determined to get another coin. He asks for mercy only because he knows the Knights are obligated to give it--and he makes it abundantly clear that he has absolutely no intention whatsoever of actually repenting. It would have been an exercise in utter, complete futility to try and "save" him, and everyone in the room knows it.
      • Note also that at the beginning of the book, when the Knights are fighting Ursiel, they attempt to reason with him, but Rammussen tells them its pointless and that he has given himself over to the Fallen. Michael is regretful, but he swiftly kills Rammussen afterwards as he is beyond redemption.


How did The Fallen rebel?

I've been reading the RPG game books, and they state clearly that the difference between men and monsters is that men have choice, monsters have power. Men are frail, but they have free will. Monsters vary in power, although most are much stronger than humans, but they always act according to their nature. So how did The Fallen rebel? Isn't defying god against their nature?

  • I think its a gross oversimplification of how things work in the setting. A being doesn't necessarily need to have "free will" to rebel. the Leanansidhe was able to rebel against Mab despite being fae; ditto for Aurora. Angels are more powerful and have greater intellects, so they can likely turn against God; that was hinted at by Lash when she talked about having someone else rule over their every action and not allowing them to choose for themselves. Besides, don't take the game books as absolute truth; they're written in-universe by a college grad whose primary knowledge of the supernatural comes from biting off the faces of ghouls and reading the notes of a relatively young and inexperienced wizard.
  • What I think is likely: the Fallen were always meant to rebel in order to fulfill God's mind-bendingly ineffable plan, like in Good Omens.
  • In this Verse, "no free will" apparently doesn't mean "mindless"; it means that a creature is unable to change its own underlying nature. They can choose, but they can't grow in ways that would make them choose any differently under the same circumstances. Hence, their True Names are permanent, unlike those of people who can mature, gain insight, and/or be corrupted by their experiences. In the case of the Fallen, their underlying personalities are basically unchanged; they just manifest the darkest and most rebellious side to their personality-traits (e.g. Lasciel's inborn cleverness expressed as cunning manipulation).
    • This. All higher powers Harry has spoken to seem to agree that good an evil are technicalities, which would mean that going darkside is nothing like a complete change.


An Unraveling

  • So it's mentioned somewhere that an Unraveling, like the one Dresden got hold of in Summer Knight, can undo any enchantment, including vampiric infection--Harry considers using it on Susan, if I remember correctly. So why did he never consider turning in the Silver Oak boon for one?
    • The Unraveling is a very serious sort of thing, and its not a one-time use thing. Once you've got an Unraveling, you can go around and undo really any enchantment you want. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing the Mothers would part with lightly. Remember that the boon has its limitations, and I think that an Unraveling sits outside the boundaries of the things you can get from the Fae.
    • I could have sworn it was a one-time use thing, considering it does its thing by, well, unraveling.
      • You can presumably use it more than once; Harry intended to use the Unraveling to save Susan after he used it to rescue Lily.
      • Um, no he didn't. He didn't know he would need to use it to rescue Lily when he first had the thought that he would use it to cure Susan. If it could be used more than once, he could have recovered it from the stone table once Aurora was eliminated, but he didn't. One use only.
      • No. He didn't know he would need it to rescue Lily specifically, but that's irrelevant. He'd already figured out that Aurora had sealed away the Summer Knight's mantle, and it wasn't until then that they gave him the Unraveling. He already knew he'd need it, and then he thought of using it to heal Susan as well. He didn't recover the Unraveling after the battle because he was utterly exhausted from having had to fight a small army of fae and kill Aurora, and by the time he had recovered enough to even think about the Unraveling, the area had already been secured by Mab and Titania, and doubtless the Unraveling was removed.
      • By "one-time use", I was referring to how you use it by literally unraveling the cloth. Once it's used, the cloth is reduced to string, I figured that used up whatever power it had.
    • In addition to the sheer power of it, an Unraveling is a Winter Court production (specifically Mother Winter). Him using the Silver Oak boon to get one would likely be both be outside their capacity to acquire one and kill-you-dead insulting.
      • And the fact that Aurora had to steal Harry's to advance her own plan suggests that nobody else in either Court is powerful enough to make them.


Bob as Word of Kemmler

  • How come Cowl was able to gain knowledge of Darkhallow from Bob, after Harry ordered Bob to permanently forget the time he spent with Kemmler? I first assumed that Cowl just somehow overrode the command with clever wording and maybe some Rules Lawyer talent, but that was Jossed by events of Ghost Story. Seeing how Bob split the part of himself into what amounts to a separate being he shouldn't have been able to supply Cowl with required info.
    • Indications are that he didn't do it immediately. Bob apparently only wholly separated the Kemmler part of himself after Cowl attempted to use him and he realized that just because he had set himself to forget about the information, anyone else could simply order him to remember it. He cut that part of himself off after Cowl was defeated.


The Archive

  • Could Ivy, or any other Archive, theoretically avoid having children? The archive itself probably wouldn't want it, but it was established that Ivy could've taken control of it. Anyway, was it ever mentioned how exactly it's passed down? Would it go to some sister or cousin if there was no daughter?
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