Thor (film)/WMG

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


Loki actually is Odin's son. He'd been shagging Loki's mother before the war started.

The mythology is pretty clear that the Aesir can't keep it in their pants, especially with jotnar. Explains why he's so tiny and why he changes color. Odin probably knows this, but didn't tell Loki because he's a lying bastard.

Loki's coloring is temperature sensitive.

All jotnar are blue only when super-cooled, otherwise they have humanlike coloring. Full-grown jotnar take a while to warm up, so they remained blue while wandering around Asgard. Likewise, full-grown Loki doesn't cool down very fast unless he's making direct contact with a source of extreme cold, such as the Jotunheim power source or an actual jotun. (Baby Loki, on the other hand, is very tiny and conducts heat pretty quickly.)

Loki will wind up wanting to come back to the light side, though it may be impossible

On the one hand, his motives are largely good: he wants to make his father proud and do his duty for Asgard. His real villainy only came after he went mad from the revalation that he was a Frost Giant, though he definitely also has Jealousy as a major character flaw. That may be enough reason for him to feel regret at how things turned out. On the other hand, he winds up trying to kill his brother and commit genocide against the jotnar, not to mention showing no regard for the human collateral damage the destroyer caused. Even if he felt regret about it, he might either decide he'd already gone too far to change or that noone would accept his Heel Face Turn after everything he's done.

  • One has to debate upon his genocide against the jotnar, though because it is more than likely that he believed that if he managed to destroy what was currently a threat to Asgard, he would be doing his father proud.
  • I think that is an entirely credible interpretation of why he let go at the end of the movie.
  • Considering the after credits scene and the fact he's going to be the main villain in the Avengers, it's doubtful.
    • Considering his more sympathetic portrayal, he may turn out to be a bit more redeemable than his comic book counterpart though. (Especially since the fangirls are all over him now.)
    • Or he might decide that Red Skull/Hydra/whoever he's working with is too evil (Loki's mostly defined by wanting Thor dead/to prove himself better than Thor/to impress Odin in the movie, his whole "cause Raganarok" thing has never come up) and stop them, either for a "only I get to kill you" with Thor or becuase whatever the villains are doing threatans Asgard (and Loki has nothing against Asgard as much as Thor, unlike in the comics). He'll probably make a Heel Face Turn, and leave after it's all over before anyone can stop him, hinting that he'll get Thor "next time" and therefore laying the groundwork for his appaearence in the sequel.
    • He may not even have to wait for Thor 2 -- it's possible that Word of God about his villainhood in The Avengers is a misdirect, and that he's only The Dragon, and will have his Heel Face Turn before the end of that movie.
      • According to another interview with Tom Hiddleston, while there will be spots of hope for Loki's redemption in The Avengers, he will not be redeemed. It is rather likely, however, that the bigger villain will turn up in Thor 2 and Loki will join with Thor in order to defeat this new threat.

Loki will not be the villain of the sequel, but it will be about Raganrok

  • The villain will be Surtur, who wants to bring about Ragnarok and end all of existance. But he knows the prophecy says Loki will cause it, so he tries to get Loki to do so.
    • And Loki refuses. Surtur then proceeds to kidnap/do something to get Loki out of the way while making it look like Loki's doing horrible things, hoping that Loki will be found and punished for them becuase no one would belive he didn't (an subquently go mad from whatever the awful punishment is)... But Thor and maybe Odin and Frigga realize it's not Loki's doing, so Thor has to find and save Loki before Surtur destroys too much pretedning to be Loki, setting up an Enemy Mine...and all that's the first act.
    • The second act will deal with Thor and Loki's issues with each other while they go on some quest to find some MacGuffin to stop Surtur, including Loki turning into his jotun form and lashing out at Thor and Thor eventually giving Loki a long cooldown hug (with optional frostbite ensuing). They will get to the MacGuffin after fighting beings like Jormungand (not Loki's son here) and Dark Elves (maybe Malekith the Accursed or Pre-Kurse Algrim the Strong) and get to the MacGuffin, but it's just a Magic Feather and Loki says "well, that's it then" and knocks Thor out.
      • This. Especially the hug. This please.
    • The third act will look like Loki's defected to Surtur out of pragmatism, but it'll turn out to be a sneak Suicide Attack that nearly kills Loki when Thor rushes in to save him. The Magic Feather turns out to not be a Magic Feather, but actually have a use, and heals both of them, and they go after Surtur in a massive battle to top any and all previous massive battles and be a Crowning Moment of Awesome for both brothers. Then, Loki will leave, paointing out that he's still done horrible things, but he'll come by now and again "to make things not so boring" (aka help out if they need him). It will be a Crowning Moment of Heartwarming, a Tear Jerker and proof that Loki can never really be a Karma Houdini here.
  • And then, in the coda, we'll see the Enchantress forming the Masters of Evil to go after Jane Foster...
  • Apparently Loki will be returning, but not as the villain. They're in talks with Mads Mikkelsen to play the villain, but who he'll play is kind of up in the air. The article dismisses the Executioner based on size, but after watching Valhalla Rising, I could definitely see him in the role. If they can make Idris Elba Heimdal, they can make Mads Mikkelsen the Executioner. That being said, Executioner's still kind of a pawn to Enchantress, and both are really a step down from Loki in every respect. Someone else threw out the idea he'd play Malekith, but really, that'd just be Loki's angle without the brother/father issues.

The Scary Black Man that attacked Thor was Luke Cage

This was the first thing This Troper thought when he saw him.

He seemed to have some amount of super strength, even if it is the Charles Atlas Superpower kind, and he WAS working along with Hawkeye which is an important character who will appear in the Avengers movie. This troper thinks that, either this was a setup for Luke appearing in the Avengers movie, or they just wanted to reference the character even if he isn't going to be used.

    • Luke Cage has no connections to SHIELD and will not appear in Avengers. It was just a big guy that fought a powerless Thor.
    • Yea, there's no way that was Luke Cage, who would have crushed the Brought Down to Normal Thor.
    • Please that was obviously Brick Wall from Kickers Inc.

The Scary Black Man that attacked Thor was Heimdall

He was as big as Thor, he was there as a guardian, and the scene right after Thor tries to lift Mjolnir is Heimdall looking at it.

Thor Odinson is not the first Asgardian named Thor to wield Mjolnir

The era when Norse myth was first recorded, based on observations of the war between the Asgardians and the jotnar, predated the birth of Thor. So, why does Norse legend record an individual named Thor? Because there was a warrior named Thor who fought in that war. He just wasn't Thor Odinson, or at least not the Thor of the movie. He was instead a red haired warrior of Odin's generation, and most likely died during the war. Thor Odinson, the Thor we know, is named after the deceased hero of the Jotun war. Hence the differences in appearance between him and his legend.

    • Considering how Ragnarok and the constant life-death-rebirth cycle of Norse myth work, this may well be the case--Thor is named after the same god in previous cycles.
    • The reason the original, red-haired Thor is referred to in some sources as Odin's son is because the stories became corrupted over time, and Odin's contemporary Thor was accidentally conflated with Odin's young son Thor (assuming the Asgardians had not already left Earth by the time Thor Odinson was born). This, of course, would have only served to fuel Thor Odinson's already-immense ego.
  • By extension, the Loki in the film is not the first Asgardian to bear his name, either -- which is why there's a Loki in Norse mythology, and why someone can be seen wearing Loki's distinctive helmet during the scene where Odin claims the jotnar's casket.
    • Or it might be a callback to the comic storyline where Loki timetravelled.
  • Alternate theory: We don’t know how much time passed between the end of the Asgard/Jutenheim war and the Asgardians ending casual contact with Earth. Since Norse Mythology attributes the god’s long life-spans to the golden apples of the Goddess Idun, rather that something biologically inherent, it could be that they mature at the same rate as humans, or something close to it. So there’s plenty of “launch window” for both Thor and Loki to have reached adulthood and been incorporated into Norse folklore well before the end of the Viking era
    • That makes a fair bit of sense, especially if we take 'The Apples of Idun' as a historic misinterpretation of whatever sufficiently advanced tech makes them immortal. In the mythology Thor didn't show up in the first war with Ymir and the other frost giants, his stories take place later. So a young and untried Thor is the character we see in the Norse Myths, dealing with the aftermath of the war.
  • Except the book about Norse myths we see in the movie clearly shows a blonde Thor, so even if there was a previous Thor he probably wouldn't be red-haired. Also Fandral has a line that implies that the Thor seen in the movie was the one worshiped on Earth.

The Frost Giants are asexual

We know that Laufey had at least one son but we never even see any female giants.

  • Would you be able to tell a female jotun from a male? That said, I don't disagree. I could entirely see the jotnar reproducing asexually, maybe spinning off "eggs" of ice that "hatch" into their young.
  • Going by the original mythology, while there were female jotnar, Ymir (the original Frost Giant) produced numerous offspring by himself, so there may be something to this...
    • Also, in the original mythology Laufey was Loki's mother. So either he/she got a Gender Bender in this cycle of gods and associated beings, or Laufey's a Truly Single Parent.
      • Laufey's been a male in the comics since the 60's while Farbauti has been a female, since this is based off the comics they kept the change.
      • Then, if we take comics/movies as the "truth" and the myths as stories told by Norsemen who simply met Asgardians and jotnar, perhaps for whatever reason they simply ended up conflating Loki's parents into one being.
  • Could be that Frost Giants just don't have much sexual dimorphism, and prefer to refer to one another as male (ala dwarves in Discworld). In which case, Laufey is still Loki's mother.
  • Laufey and Odin are Loki's parents. After a brief but tumultuous affair, Odin won custody. Laufey's visiting rights are a sore point.
  • In the mythology Ymir, who was the first frost giant(also the first living being in the universe) just kind of came out of the ice. maybe this kind of thing happens often on Jotunheim.
  • Also in the mythology, Loki is most definately not asexual. He's the mother of Slepnir, for one. (Yeah, really.)
  • This Troper favors the idea that the jotnar are an inherently magical race (preferring ice magic, obviously), and are thus ALL capable of shapeshifting (hence why baby Loki was able to transform into an Asgardian - it's a subconscious defense mechanism, an attempt to integrate into a species for safety). Laufey could have transformed into a female if he so desired, and mated with a male-formed Jotun (possibly Farbauti). So, technically, he WOULD be Loki's mother.

The Asgardians are the descendents of an earlier generation of super humans, who departed Earth

Think about it: the Asgardians entirely look human. They bear a connection to Earth, hence the defending of it from the jotnar. And when stripped of their powers, the result is. . . a normal human. And we know humans are capable of developing preternatural abilities in the setting. So, theory: thousands of years back, there was an 'Age of Heroes' where superhumans evolved. They probably did their thing, grew powerful, bred a lot, developed understandings of their powers, and probably built great civilizations. For whatever reason, some or all of them decided to leave collectively, and create a new home ( or homes? ) elsewhere in the universe.

  • Since it's suggested that The Realms are defined as the nine planets connected by a natural wormhole network (see below), and the myths point to a common origin for the Asgardians and Frost Giants, this makes a good amount of sense.
  • So they're the Eternals?

Part of the reason behind the casting of Heimdall was to keep away racists

There are Neo Nazi morons and suchlike that tend to like the Norse gods or worship some twisted version of them. Studio execs were worried that these bastards might cling onto the film like a lamprey sucking away at the bottom line. Though i am not going to say this was the only reason why he was cast (he was pretty damn awesome in the part), but I could imagine some studio execs and marketing guys looking over the list of people who want to play the role and did well and said "of these three final guys, lets go with the black guy because he is going to keep those racist morons away".

  • The original Norse legends refer to Heimdall as "the whitest of all the gods." I can't imagine that casting Idris Elba was entirely an accident.
  • The fact that the casting choice inspired real-life white supremacist groups to protest the movie probably helped the movie a little bit - No Such Thing as Bad Publicity, with the bad publicity drummed up by the lease agreeable source possible. It probably also helped quell many comic fans' complaints about the movie's color blind casting.

Just like in the comics and mythology, Thor in the movies is indeed in love with and and probably engaged to Sif

Its just that, when you're immortal, spending a human lifetime with somebody else is roughly the equivalent of flirting with somebody for a few minutes.

Stan the Man only tried lifting the hammer with his car, not with his hands

If he'd tried it with his hands, he'd have been able to lift it easily. Unfortunately, his pickup truck wasn't as worthy as he was.

Sif is also a frost giant.

Doesn't she look enough like Loki to be related?

The portal between Earth and Asgard already exists.

Remember those auroras that Jane is hunting at the beginning of the movie? The ones that we're told appear at a completely predictable interval? That's the portal. At the end of the film, Jane and co. aren't inventing a portal, they're calculating when the next portal opens; that's why they're in such a rush, it's about to open soon and they want to be there. And notice that bright glow that covers Thor's face at the very end...

  • Lets not forget, Loki outright said that there are three secret passageways between the Realms that are beyond Heimdall's sight. He can't be the only one capable of finding them, can he?
  • I like this idea, especially as it explains why nine different planets scattered through the universe are all counted as 'The Realms' despite having little in common. Maybe they're all connected by a natural wormhole network.
    • Most likely Yggdrasil.

The Asgardians are descendants of a different sort of Gallifreyan

Another subset of people, who, like the Time Lords developed a different sort of mega powerful technology except it traverses space instead of time. 1. It would be awesome 2. Time Lords are stronger than humans, Asgardians infinitely more so. 3. No one else has said it yet.

Loki journeyed to Midgard before

When he met Thor in the S.H.I.E.L.D. compound, he was dressed like a human and seemed very comfortable with human technology. Going to Midgard after falling to the broken Bifrost was a contingency plan based on his previous experiences with Midgard and its people.

Thor will get back to Midgard using the same path Loki did.

Because they clearly state Thor is going to be in The Avengers, and Loki used a secret passageway that wasn't Bifrost.

The Big Bad of Thor 2 will be Surtur.

They wouldn't miss the chance of using one of the best (as well as the best-known) story arcs from the comic book, would they? Also, since the movie version of Loki is an Anti-Villain seeking his father's approval, the Surtur War will give him a chance to redeem himself. (In the comic book Loki also fought Surtur, although for more selfish reasons.)

  • If this happens, and they use the "For Asgard/Midgard/myself!" lines, the theaters will explode from awesome.
  • Does this mean Beta Ray Bill will show up?

"Whitest God" is still used to refer to the setting's Heimdall, but as an ironic nickname.

Sort of like calling a big guy "Tiny".

Heimdall is still the whitest of all the gods.

He jumps worse than Volstagg. And when he dances ... it's very, very sad.

Lockjaw exists in this continuity

So when Thor asks for a dog big enough to ride, he gets one!

Andalasia is another one of the worlds on Yggdrasil.

Notice how similar the interdimensional space Thor passes through is to what Giselle passes through during her own banishment on Midgard.

Gallifrey and Skaro are other worlds on Yggdrasil.

Both Gallifrey and Asgard are home to superhuman beings that have a history of helping humans (although only one Gallifryan really has a human-helping history). Both have technology/magic capable of traveling through space (although Time Lords can also travel through time). Also, the enmity between the Time Lords and the Daleks is similar to the enmity between the Asgardians and the Frost Giants. And it would just be kind of awesome.

The Asgardians will learn there are millions of inhabited dimensions, and Yggdrasil leads to only nine of them.

Courtesy of Uatu. Or maybe Dr. Strange.

Loki's final, definite Face Heel Turn could have been prevented had Odin just said something more constructive than "No, Loki."

Not to excuse Loki's actions there, but he's one of the best-executed cases of Cry for the Devil in recent memory, and in this verse he's clearly in many ways still a really pathetic, attention-seeking boy. Imagine if Odin had just sighed "Loki, please don't do this. You are my son, and I could not bear to lose you." It seems pretty IC that this version of Loki might have allowed that, and then probably collapsed into angry, frustrated, needy tears. He'd probably still need a long, long time under whatever the Asgardian equivalent of psychiatrist is's care (not unlike Princess Azula's final fate), but at the very least he wouldn't've ended up going to rampage on Midgard for shits and giggles.

  • This Troper (the one who speculated about Laufey below) is now writing an AU fanfic based on this guess.

The reason pre-revelation Loki let in a frost giant to “ruin [his] brother’s big day” was because then they could fight it off together and nothing would change between them.

It's very, very likely Loki wasn’t actually in villain territory until he knew what he was and it pushed him over the edge, and that his affection and happiness for his brother in the deleted scenes is completely genuine, if a little bittersweet. So even if he clearly has some resentment of Thor from the very start, enough to want to botch up the coronation, well, think about that for a moment. It would just delay the inevitable a bit, not make their father automatically think “Oh, clearly the throne should go to Loki instead.”

It’d keep them both as princes, with Loki and Thor on an even footing with each other. That could be the way Loki wanted it, where even if Thor’s Odin’s favorite, Thor doesn’t see himself as too powerful (or more innocently, too busy) to keep adventuring and stuff with his brother by his side as an equal and a foil. He might not even view it as callously as “to ruin my brother’s big day” at that point- post-revelation Loki is no longer rational or sane, and his much-increased jealousy of his brother after that might cause him to retroactively refer to his earlier actions much more bluntly and darkly.

  • Regarding that decision, it could also be one of Loki's ideas that he believed would be in the good of Asgard. He could see that Thor wasn't fit to take the throne and that him being crowned king would not be in the good of Asgard, so he may have set up the "prank" to show his father that Thor was not ready. All he needed was for Thor to attempt to go to Jotunheim to show Odin the truth, but things got just a little out of hand.

Ragnarok has already happened one in the MCU

OK, so the old universe is dead, the new one is born, Cosmic Entity(s) like Galactus, Eternity & Oblivion pop up, and eventually, in one sector of space, Ymir and his cow emerge, then Buri, progenitor of the Aesirs, rises, formation of nine worlds, all that inbetween time, and eventually Ragnarök, from Balder's death, to Loki's torture and escape, to the Winter, to Order and Chaos fighting, to Surtur burning everything, everything happens exactly how the myths portray. But, somehow it's history was not lost, as the Cycle pops up once more. However, things change, whether it be small like Thor and Sif's hair color changing, Heimdall no longer being white, Hogun is now an Aesir to major like Slepnir (and maybe his trio of kids from Angerboda) no longer being sired by Loki, Yggdrasil changes from a tree to a constellation, maybe Balder and Tyr no longer existing, things like that.

So, the old myths get passed down to Earth/Midgard, but since events like Loki, since the Giants no longer look human, looks like an Aesir, and no longer has Cosmic Horror children like Fenrir or Jormungand, are somewhat skeptically believed even by Aesirs, explaining why he wasn't chased off so much earlier and how some things still look the same but are also so drastically different at times.

Asgard is a General Systems Vehicle.

Really, it was hard not to think "omg its a GSV!" the first time Asgard showed up on screen.

The Destroyer will become the basis for Ultron.

SHIELD must have scavenged the parts, and Erik's connection to Hank Pym could bring that man into some work for SHIELD. Pym could start working on Ultron through the use of those parts and inadvertantly create a villain even more poerful than the robot was.

The reason the American Southwest is desert is because the Bifrost ends there

It's a little destructive when it opens up, so it only makes sense. Maybe Arizona's Meteor Crater was from a particularly forceful transport.

The Serpent in Fear Itself was either Vili or Ve

Vili and Ve were the brothers of Odin, who helped Odin create the universe from Ymir's body in Norse Mythology. In the Marvel Universe, one of them took on the name "The Serpent", and was prophecized to kill Thor.

  • Nope. In the final issue, Odin calls him Cul.

The Asgard don't understand their own technology

This is why they can't easily rebuild the Bifrost bridge or equip everyone with a mass-produced Thor's Hammer, and why they refer to their tech as "magic". Their tech is actually made by another alien race, probably the ones corresponding to the dwarves in Norse myth (who made most of the Norse god's weapons and artefacts). Unfortunately the dwarves live elsewhere in the 9 Worlds and getting to them without the Bifrost is not easy.

Mjolnir is made of neutron star matter.

Odin says that it was "forged in the heart of a dying star", and it's too heavy to lift unless you're specifically able to lift it. Whoever made it also added compensation so that things don't get pulled in by it's gravity, and it didn't split Earth in half when it landed. It still hits as if it had its full weight.

The Enchantress from the comics is the same enchantress from Beauty and The Beast.

What with Disney having bought Marvel and all. Think about it: they both have long blonde hair, they both wear green, they're both described as being incredible beautiful, and they both do not react well to rejection. I can't unsee it!

Yggdrasil being the entire universe, Nidhogg, the dragon at its roots slowly devouring it, is the Asgardian name for...

Galactus. This won't be revealed until much farther down the road when the fans and mainstream viewers manage to have the bad taste of Death Cloud Galactus washed from their mouths.

  • It would need Marvel Studios to buy back the movie rights for the Fantastic Four franchise before it happens, since Galactus is considered a Fantastic Four villain. But that's not necessarily impossible.

Laufey is not a complete bastard.

No, hear me out. This guess is based on some of his dialogue from the film. Laufey was not a nice customer to be sure, no denying that. Willing to assassinate his helpless opponent, proud, vindictive, etcetera. But cold, iron-fisted tyrant of a fierce and angry people he might have been, it's possible he COULD have genuinely loved his son, Loki.

When Thor, Loki, Sif, and the Warriors Three invade Jotunheim, he viciously snaps out with, "Your father [Odin] is a murderer and a thief!" Thief obviously refers to the casket. Murderer though seems an oddly specific word for describing a warrior. Warriors kill in battle, while murder holds particularly bad, foul connotations. It's a very personal word. So Laufey feels that Odin killed someone who was especially close to him.

Could it be that Laufey thinks that upon entering the deserted temple after the battle, Odin killed the baby Loki and disposed of the body? We only have Odin's word and perspective that Loki was actively abandoned, anything could have happened in the confusion of battle to leave the young heir alone. And besides. A temple? Why the Hell would you abandon a baby you didn't care about in a holy place? That just doesn't make sense. Hell, guards who may have been assigned to protect Loki may have been slaughtered earlier outside, rushing in headfirst to try and defend their charge for all we know.

Laufey is an experienced warlord, at least as much as Odin. He's obviously experienced in the ways of war. A warlord has to be able to accept losses and casualties, and a bloodthirsty one like Laufey even more so. It would take a kind of special loss to make Laufey willing to engage in a truce, even for a while. The death of your first son, perhaps. Hence his line: "You know not what your actions would unleash. (Beat) ...I do."

Perhaps this is an overly elaborate Cry for the Devil, but I dig me some character speculation.

    • I'll bite. Laufey came off as pretty reasonable to me. Evil, but reasonable, pragmatic, and wanting to do what's best for the jotnar.

Thor 2 will have a romantic subplot...

Focusing on the Sif-Thor-Jane love triangle (type 1 or 10, depending on whether you interpret Thor and Jane being friends or an item). Thor and Jane are definitely set up in the first film, while Sif is very much attracted to Thor (and he flirts with her) along with being his wife in the original myths.

Gods of the Marvel Universe remember stories better than events.

An old Thor comic shows that there was originally different Asgard, closer to one in mythology (with Red-haired Thor and all). This Asgard was destroyed during Ragnarok in the first century, and then surviving gods (Balder was one of them) merged into a new Odin and created a new Asgard, the one we know. But later comics often show events happening before that featuring current version of characters. That's because the characters heard stories and integrated them into their memories. That also explains why there are different versions of some events (like Odin adopting Loki): Every time a god hears a new story featuring himself, or a new version of an existing story, he/she unknowingly integrates that story into his/her memory and forgets every story that contradicts it. This extends to other gods in the Marvel Universe, as proven by the fact that Hercules remembers doing all 12 of his labours, whaen 2 of them were done by Gilgamesh.

Movie-Balder has died and has been reborn as a human.

Balder was absent from the movie and it was noticable. We know that the movie combined elements from Earth-616 and Ultimate Universe. We also know that Donald Blake and Thor are two separate characters. So, my theory goes like this: Some time in the past, Balder was killed by Hoder. If Loki was involved, he managed to escape the blame. Then, Balder was reborn as a human: Donald Blake (like in the Ultimate Universe). The reason his relationship with Jane failed is the fact that, at that time, he was starting to remember who he really was.

The Enchantress will break Loki out of prison in Thor 2.

Yup.

Odin has been sending saboteurs to Jotunheim to keep them blasted back to the Stone Age.

It's a little suspicious that nearly 1050 years after the big war with the jotnar, they're still living in ruins. Even if they couldn't pull themselves back to where they were before Odin took the Casket of Ancient Winters, you'd think that after all that time, they could have gotten something up and going again.

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