Topic on Forum:Trope Talk

Done, and all confusion caused by the original naming seems to have been resolved.

I hate to be that guy who wants to ruin all of the history of TV Tropes and All The Tropes but... sigh.

Power Trio is currently a list all of the tropes of three characters. According to Renamed Tropes/F to K]:

• Freudian Trio was originally "Power Trio", which is now a Super-Trope encompassing all Ensembles with 3 persons.

So what does the rest of the world think a power trio is? A rock band with bass, guitar, and drums. There's pages of this on Google, and then there's the trope sites with a different definition. I'm not afraid of a different definition for troping wikis. The problem is that the "real" definition of power trio is also within our scope. And in fact the Rock Trio page states that its real name is "taken".

So I'm going to propose a somewhat sweeping change:

• Bot-edit the 1369 links currently pointing at Power Trio to Freudian Trio.
• Move the current content of Category:Power Trio to uh, let's say Category Trio Tropes and recategorize members appropriately.
• Move Rock Trio to Power Trio, and bot-edit its links too.

I think bot edits will be OK here because its the same part of speech and takes the same articles. I will see if I can write a bot to alphabetize it appropriately; User:Dai-Guard is almost back in commission.

TL;DR Having tropish English names different from vernacular English keeps the autistic people communicating effectively with neurotypicals, so let's rename Power Trio.

Sounds good to me.

We're supposedly a wiki about the building blocks of stories; it seems reasonable that we should be able to communicate with everyone else - because communication is the most basic building block of telling stories.

Agreed. I was one of the original voices on TVT saying things like "if there's already a name for it among the professionals, let's use that instead of making up our own" and "don't change the nomenclature the rest of the world uses because you're ignorant and don't get it." So yeah, definitely. We should be using Power Trio like the rest of the world uses it. And the rest of the shuffle makes perfect sense to me, too.

Except in most cases it has nothing common with Freud?

Yes, most of what's listed on the current Power Trio page has nothing to do with Freud:Blonde, Brunette, Redhead ; Knight, Knave, and Squire ; Land, Sea, Sky ...

Perhaps we should rename the current "Power Trio" to "Trio" (optionally making it a subtrope of "Rule of Three"), then rename the current "Rock Trio" to "Power Trio".

"Assorted Trio"? :D

Guys, the current page is a category. It's not a trope, it's an analogue to Category:Duo Tropes. As far as possible I've been trying to rename them to have the form "[type] Tropes" or "[genre] [medium]s" which is super-boring but also very easy to remember when you're trying to categorize pages.

Links to the current page are another matter entirely, because they're almost all in common with Freud. TV Tropes renamed a page and replaced it with its supertrope (which again, is really just a category), and then didn't update the links.

"Trio Tropes"? That sounds much better. Also, alliterative.

T'was in the original proposal. I tried to add a third word like Triumphant Trio Tropes to form a trilogy but tragically it's not tractable; the third word was trimmed and trashed.

A good part, yes.

I still don't see how linking everything to Freudian Trio is a good idea. Even what already links there, at a glance, looks like potholing so ridiculously stretched that it's comparable only to a stereotypical Yaoi Fangirl's "subtext!!".

I agree with this proposed change.

If you need a bot, send me the deets on what needs done, and I'll let Gethbot do his thing.

From what I can gather, my position is between yours and TBeholder's.

Point is, there needs to be

• a category for trio in general,
• Freudian Trio and
• generic trio trope (or to look it from the other angle, unsorted).

To avoid a massive case of Square Peg, Round Trope.

I'm of the opinion that a trope for trio in general would be a case of People Sit on Chairs, but I'm willing to listed to arguments why it wouldn't be. A category for trios would be useful, yes.

In itself, yes.

But there are many examples/potholes that don't really fit and dumping them in one place rather than just dropping them may help to extract another typical set or notice things like Missing Supertrope. Hence my notion that it equals "unsorted".

While I understand TBeholder's argument here, I think this has more to do with Trope Decay of the Freudian Trio concept, than it does with examples being unsorted.

While I'm not opposed to creating some sort of holding page, Power Trio has 1369 inbound links, and I am not going to review all of them. In fact I don't know most of these works. I get the vague feeling that a portion are most likely Square Peg, Round Trope-ing the Freudian ideal. And a few just connected the word "power" to "superpower" or "cool", and declared it a Power Trio. But I don't know enough about these works to tell the difference.

Anyway, I now have a bot that will work on these, because I wrote a bot. Unless TBeholder pipes up, I'll go with my original proposal.

If you want, I can also rename all of the Power Trio wick to a temporary page, like Unsorted Trio. Seriously, just something that won't pick up wicks. Because a trio is very much not a trope. But I think in practice that Freudian Trio will do just as well if no one wants to sort now, because it will be more obvious that it's wrong upon reading the page.

For less-ugly, something like "Three by Three"?

Maybe. I guess I can't imagine someone linking to Three by Three on purpose. Wait, I just did it. D'oh!

Anyway, I had something of a thought: maybe we can bot edit to the new names any examples that contain the words 'id' or 'superego' (/\b(?:id|superego)\b/i). These are unlikely enough words in normal examples, and at least indicate the author was trying to employ the Freudian trope.

Also, alphabetization is working: . Note that it's not magic, it's not going to cross the headers. This is construed as a feature. I probably need to pull out a Unicode alphabetization algorithm due to things like Schrödinger's Gun, but I'm happy with where this started. The hardest part was handling quotes correctly in the middle of the lists.

OK, ran the first bot. It's reduced the number of links on Power Trio to 1116, which is 250 pages less to check. Well, sort of. While most of the time sorting worked great, on pages like iCarly/Tropes P-T, obviously that "F" is only going to float to the top of the current page. Oh well, at least those are easy to fix.

I don't see any obvious patterns in the remaining links to Power Trio -- if any does see a pattern, do let me know.

And down another 100, to 1020 links. I got rid of all Zero Context Examples, and renamed any example that mentioned The Spock, The Kirk, or The McCoy. This inadvertently hit two bands of Rock Trios, which I restored.

Anyone else see any patterns in these pages?

(blows dust off thread)

The rename has been done - Power Trio now means what the rest of the world says it means, and the new page Trio points to Category:Trio Tropes which is what used to be Power Trio.

The links need to be fixed.