Which pages linked here are merely good ideas, which pages are policy, and which pages are policy that users can be tempbanned for if they break it?
@Labster @GethN7 @Looney Toons @QuestionableSanity @DocColress @LulzKiller @SelfCloak
Topic on All The Tropes talk:Administrivia
Input from all users is also requested.
I think this is an relic of TVT, since Mistakenly Banned is more or less identical to theirs. But as far as wiki policy goes, there's All The Tropes:About. But I figured that the edit-warring & spam should be kind of obvious.
Anything not applicable to us in any way that can not be ported to our existing rules needs an axing.
Okay, I've started actually doing this. I'm going to use this message to list the pages I've gone through and what "categories" (mostly as listed by Rob in the OP, plus others as I think of them) I think they go in, as I go through them one at a time. Discussion basically can start as soon as I do. <grin>
The following list covers everything found on All The Tropes:Administrivia and in Category:Administrivia (which are not the same), in Category:Wiki Policy, and in the project namespace.
General Policy
- All The Tropes:What Goes Where On the Wiki (or as close to wiki policy it can get without actual rules, per se -- our basic organizational plan, could be updated/expanded)
- Forum:All The Tropes/Rules -- Slightly outdated, could use a bit of a rewrite.
- All The Tropes:Conversation in the Main Page
- All The Tropes:Repair, Don't Respond
- All The Tropes:Three Rules of Three
- All The Tropes:Not a Trope
- All The Tropes:Works Pages Are a Free Launch
- All The Tropes:Content Usage Guidelines
- All The Tropes:Bots
- All The Tropes:IRC -- Outdated, mentions our presence on Freenode
- All The Tropes:Writer Bashing -- definitely a policy, overly short
- All The Tropes:General disclaimer
- All The Tropes:Terms of Service
- All The Tropes:The Troper's Code
- All The Tropes:Policy for Wiki Staff
- All The Tropes:How We Do Bans Around Here
- All The Tropes:Bureaucrats
- All The Tropes:Contact us
- All The Tropes:Content Dumps
- All The Tropes:Content Guidelines
- All The Tropes:Copyrights
- All The Tropes:Goals
- All The Tropes:Language policy
- All The Tropes:Strong Language Usage Rules -- not found in any policy category; only categorized under "Style Guide"
- All The Tropes:Literary Criticism
- All The Tropes:How to Get a Rule Changed
- All The Tropes:Multiple Points of View
- All The Tropes:No Lewdness, No Prudishness
- All The Tropes:There is No One True Way
- All The Tropes:Terms of Service
- All The Tropes:Troping is Fun
- All The Tropes:What we aren't
- All The Tropes:Who we are
- All The Tropes:Why Fork TV Tropes
- All The Tropes:There Is No Such Thing as Notability
- All The Tropes:Thread Mode
FAQs
- All The Tropes:FAQ -- Needs a comprehensive rewrite. What we have looks skimpy, even if it links to lots of info
- All The Tropes:FAQ for Creators
- All The Tropes:New User Introduction
- All The Tropes:So You're a TV Tropes Refugee
- All The Tropes:Tropers for Creation
- All The Tropes:Wikizen Introduction
Manual of Style
- All The Tropes:Naming a Trope -- good, useful as written.
- All The Tropes:What Do I Call This Entry? -- repeats a few points from Naming a Trope, basically, in a bit more detail. Redundant; can be rolled into Naming a Trope, because despite the title that's what it's about.
- All The Tropes:Clear, Concise, Witty -- Likewise.
- All The Tropes:Trope Namer Syndrome -- good subpage for Naming a Trope, plus it's too big to roll into it.
- All The Tropes:Everything's Worse With Snowclones -- Likewise.
- All The Tropes:Style Guide
- All The Tropes:Style Guide/Spoilers
- All The Tropes:American and Commonwealth Spellings -- good subpage for the Style Guide, small enough that maybe we should just roll it in.
- All The Tropes:About Rhetorical Questions -- not entirely sure this is worth keeping
- All The Tropes:Handling Spoilers
- All The Tropes:Self-Fulfilling Spoiler -- Does this really need to be a separate page? We already cover this in less words on Handling Spoilers.
- Spoilers Off -- Should be moved into project namespace, is probably useful as-is
- All The Tropes:Example Indentation in Trope Lists -- This should be covered in the Style Guide
- All The Tropes:Signal to Noise Train Wreck
- Thread Mode -- Inferior alternative to All The Tropes:Thread Mode
- Sinkhole -- Should be moved into project namespace and made a subpage of the Style Guide. But see Pothole, Dead link and Red Link below.
- All The Tropes:This Troper -- Very brief, its content probably should be rolled into the Style Guide and then turned into a redirect to the relevant section of the page
- All The Tropes:What to Put At The Top of A Page -- Redundant material covered in at least one other general edit guidelines page. Probably deletable.
- All The Tropes:Multi-Part Picture
- All The Tropes:Grammar -- Cute and informative, but not exactly grammar help. The few links to it clearly aren't expecting it to be what it is. Probably best rolled into the Style Guide.
- All The Tropes:Tips on Grammar: The real grammar help page
- All The Tropes:How to Alphabetize Things -- keep but make sure the alphabetizing section of the Style Guide is consistent with it
- All The Tropes:No Trope Is Too Common -- We should pair this up somehow with People Sit on Chairs in a compare/contrast context
- Wiki Word -- Another for the project namespace, although its subject is covered by several other pages on the site and we probably don't need it.
- All The Tropes:Word Cruft
- All The Tropes:External Links Guide -- duplicates info in the style guide; we should probably roll it into it.
- All The Tropes:Example as a Thesis -- redirect to the category of the same name
- All The Tropes:Square Peg, Round Trope -- if it's not considered a simple help page
Help Pages
- All The Tropes:Trope Workshop Guidelines
- All The Tropes:Works Page Guidelines
- All The Tropes:Creator Page Guidelines
- All The Tropes:Uploading and Adding an Image to a Page
- All The Tropes:Creating New Pages -- While useful, I think we have too many "how to create a page" pages, and this one could go for being too generalized and lacking detail
- All The Tropes:Creating New Redirects
- All The Tropes:Creating Disambiguation Pages
- All The Tropes:How to Pick A Good Image -- We should probably add something about -ND images to the copyright section.
- All The Tropes:How to Write An Example
- All The Tropes:Examples Need Context -- the "Wiki Walking Stick" section needs a minor rewrite because we're already discouraging (and should be converting) numbered subtypes of tropes into named subtypes
- All The Tropes:Examples Are Not Arguable
- All The Tropes:Examples Are Not Recent
- All The Tropes:Examples Are Not Local
- All The Tropes:Page Templates
- Help:Formatting
- All The Tropes:Tips for Editing -- Another "how to edit and what to do". Strikes me as redundant, although I can't put my finger on what it duplicates. Maybe can be rolled into a larger, more general "how to get started" page.
- All The Tropes:How To Delete a Page
- All The Tropes:Stub Pages
- Finding a Trope -- Rather skimpy, could stand some expansion, and as a help page should be in the project namespace.
- All The Tropes:Loaded Trope Word
- All The Tropes:Namespaces
- All The Tropes:What Page Types Mean -- Duplicates All The Tropes:Namespaces, needs to be rolled into a more general overview of how we organize the wiki
- All The Tropes:List of Image License Templates -- Needs to be strongly linked on other image help pages
- All The Tropes:About -- Probably the best place to start with reorganizing everything for readability and ease of access
- CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported -- Why do we have a page for only one of the CC licenses? Also, it needs some editing, as it implies that TVT might have changed their license, when we've known for most of a decade that they have.
- The Same but More Specific -- Another to move into the project namespace, or -- better -- turned into part of a general set of guidelines about quantifying and proposing tropes, along with:
- All The Tropes:Be Creative
- All The Tropes:Brevity Is Wit -- We cover this on other pages, usually when bringing up conciseness
- All The Tropes:Creating a Page by Hand -- Needs to be updated to reflect Rob's footer templates
- All The Tropes:Edit Reasons and Why You Should Use Them
- All The Tropes:Glossary
- All The Tropes:Needs a Better Title
- All The Tropes:SocialProfile -- Outdated, has a largish section on the Friend/Foe feature we've disabled
- All The Tropes:Tabs
- All The Tropes:Babel
- All The Tropes:Not a Deconstruction
- All The Tropes:Not a Subversion
- All The Tropes:Self Explanatory -- Do we really need this?
- All The Tropes:Take It to the Forums
- All The Tropes:Trope Decay
- All The Tropes:Tropes Are Flexible
- All The Tropes:Tropes Are Not Bad
- All The Tropes:Tropes Are Not Good
- All The Tropes:Tropes Are Tools
Established Functionality
- Trope Workshop
- Lost and Found -- Unreachable redirect that goes to the Forums.
- Locked Pages -- Unreachable redirect that goes to Special:ProtectedPages
- You Know That Thing Where -- A redirect to the Workshop, listed as a separate topic
- Forum:Trope Talk -- Yet another link to the forums
- All The Tropes:Featured Article -- Outdated. We haven't actively worked on the Featured Article issue since 2016.
- All The Tropes:Userboxes
Wiki Maintenance Pages and Tools
- All The Tropes:Frequent Redlinks -- Actually a mix of a help page and a list of frequently misused page names/links. Might be worth splitting apart.
- All The Tropes:How to Do A Wick Check
- Missing Supertrope -- Needs to be moved into project namespace, and referenced somewhere useful
- All The Tropes:Community Portal
- Category:Needs Wiki Magic Love -- As a "container category" for other categories it has no contents of its own; there's no need to link it off Administrivia or a similar page. The Community Portal serves that purpose better, and lists far more "fix me" categories than it does. Similarly, most of its sub-points on Administrivia are amply served by the portal:
- Category:Needs a Better Description
- Category:Pages Needing Wicks
- Category:Pages Needing an Entry Pimp -- This is apparently subtly different from Category:Pages Needing Wicks. Should it be on the Portal? (It currently isn't.)
- Category:Examples Need Sorting
- Category:Pages Needing Images
- List of Pages Artists Can Illustrate -- Outdated page that simply points artists at Category:Pages Needing Images. If we keep it, it needs to be moved into the project namespace and made into a proper front-end for working with artists.
- Category:Tropes Needing Examples
- Category:Works Needing Tropes
- List of Works That Need Summary -- This should probably be turned into a category like the other "needs work" listings
- Category:Example Sectionectomy -- In this section on the assumption that there are still pages listed here that could profit from having their examples restored. If not, this should become a policy page.
- All The Tropes:Wick
- All The Tropes:No Real Life Examples, Please -- A worklist with two entries on it that have been there since last fall
- All The Tropes:Pages needing standard headers
- All The Tropes:Things that need fixing
Simple Content
- All The Tropes:History
- In-Universe -- a trope page that needs to be turned into a category, probably doesn't belong on Administrivia
- Template:Media Headers -- More a reference than anything else; it's not transcluded into anything and is only linked to from help pages
- Dead Link -- A simple definition. If it's worth keeping it should probably go into the project namespace.
- Wiki Curator -- A simple definition of a type of user. Not administrative content at all. Also:
- Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions
- Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions
- Mistakenly Banned -- A New Media trope and not really anything to do with policy or administration.
- TV Tropes/The Situation, TV Tropes/The Second Google Incident -- only listed for historical purposes. Not needed on our Administrative pages
- Arlen Theory -- Not sure if this actually counts as any kind of administration page
- Pothole -- Yet another definition, another possible contender for a move into the project namespace. Maybe.
- Red Link -- Again, a definition. If Dead Link and Pothole go into the project namespace, so should this.
- All The Tropes:Ascended Bin Titles
- All The Tropes:Complaining About Shows You Don't Like
- All The Tropes:This Index Is Not an Example -- An index page that could probably be turned into a category
- All The Tropes:Troper Critical Mass
- All The Tropes:Weirdest Inbound Link of the Day
Simply Unneeded
- Weblinks Are Not Examples -- a redirect to All The Tropes:Examples Need Context treated like a separate subject
- All The Tropes:Media Categories FAQ -- as noted by its cleanup template, this page was under construction at the time of the fork, and has remained more or less untouched since then. It's outdated -- at least one "policy" on it (splitting film into live action and animation) we have effectively repudiated in the last few years. It's also rather short -- its contents (after updating) could probably go in one of our other help pages.
- All The Tropes:Renamed Tropes -- A small hierarchy of pages just listing other pages that have been renamed, mostly back on TVT because we generally haven't been updating it. If we keep this at all it should be turned into a category like so many other so-called "index" pages from TVT. But really, does anyone actually use this for anything? I think it was more a place for old tropers to wax nostalgic over favorite long-gone trope names than anything useful.
- Wild Mass Guessing/Programme Note: The content of this page should be added to that already on Category:Wild Mass Guessing. Nothing points to it but Administrivia.
- Known Troper -- Defines a term we don't use, even though we note the ATT equivalent. The only thing linking to it is the Glossary
- All The Tropes:Yes, We DO Have This One -- a stock phrase which shouldn't even need a definition page
Policies Subject to Tempbans If Violated
- ("How We Do Bans Around Here", which defines most reasons for tempbans, is listed under "General Policy", above.)
- Nothing Yet
Needs TVT-specific content removed/rewritten
- All The Tropes:Everything You Wanted to Know About Changing Trope Names -- Is still largely TVT text, references TVT issues that have never plagued us along with TVT mechanisms like crowners that we don't have. Needs a thorough rewrite and to be made more prominent.
- All The Tropes:Analyzing Inbounds -- Although it's been rewritten to reflect that we are ATT and we have Matomo Analytics, we have neither the resources nor the interest level to make this page useful. Possibly archive it against future need?
Too TVT-specific to save
- All The Tropes:Flame Bait -- All about tropes that caused flame wars on TVT, none of which ever showed up here.
Okay, now that I'm done with this, the first thing that jumps out at me is that we have been horribly inconsistent in the categories we apply to the various policy pages, as well as linking to some of them. We need a massive reorganization, starting with master top-level pages for things like Policies, Help and Style that list everything (suitably organized) relevant in a single place.
When I suggest rolling a page into another page, we should keep the page as a redirect to the page into which it was incorporated, preferably with a link to the specific section it became.
@Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak
I don't see anything to object to, all the proposed changes look reasonable.
I'm not done yet.... I'm only about halfway through the Administrivia page at this point, and I have further additions to this list in an open edit window on another tab. I'll let everyone know when it's in a final state.
All right, now that I'm done, I'm asking everyone to go through my list. Let me know if a) you agree with the general category things got put in, and b) if there are any of my suggestions and recommendations you disagree with.
After that, I'd like us to brainstorm on how we want to organize all this going forward. I'm thinking we need at least top-level pages for Policy, Style, Help and Wiki Maintenance, if not others. As part of that, we need to improve the category assignments on these pages. Things are all over the place -- as I noted above, at least one policy page was only ever categorized as part of the Style Guide. We need to fix stuff like that and make sure everything is properly assigned.
We also need to make sure that everything we're keeping is thoroughly linked from multiple places. Some of these pages had virtually no inbound links and could only be found by knowing they existed in the first place. None of this information should be hard to find or get to.
Anyway, thoughts, opinions, alternative suggestions?
@Labster @Looney Toons @GethN7 @Robkelk @QuestionableSanity @Derivative @SelfCloak
I've just consolidated Stubs with the preexisting All The Tropes:Stub Pages.
Reflecting that, I've removed Stubs from the big list o' pages above.