User talk:Nerdanel

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Not editable

Tried to answer you in the forum about the editor

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

... but I got an internal exception error upon posting, twice in a row. My intended reply:

I somehow missed the "WYSIWYG" in your original complaint, so my response is mostly invalid. Moreover, I've never seen the WYSIWYG editor. I'm going to have to find a way to open it so I can see, since all my edit links take me to the standard editor.

What happened to the information that was on the Black Butler pages you proposed for deletion?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)


I don't mind deleting unnecessary pages, but I don't want to lose information in the process. So I went looking for the information that you removed from the three Black Butler subpages that you've marked as candidates for deletion ... and couldn't find it. Where did it go?

Nerdanel (talkcontribs)

I moved them out to proper separate work pages.

have most of the stuff, disregarding what I removed as bad content. The main Black Butler page (the name of which I'm going to be changing to Kuroshitsuji (manga) to get rid of that nonsense where things are named Kuroshitsuji or Black Butler depending on English release status) also currently has some tropes specific to Book of Circus and Book of Murder, as those two don't have separate pages yet.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Fair enough, and thanks for putting in this work.

Have you been creating redirects from "Black Butler (whatever)" to "Kuroshitsuji (whatever)" along the way? I like redirects when something has more than one name - we don't have to choose which name to use.

Nerdanel (talkcontribs)

I made some redirects now. I'll need to make more later on.

Unfortunately almost every Black Butler link in the wiki (and there are many) was made in the times when there weren't separate pages for separate works.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

The easy way around that is to set up a disambiguation page, and link to that until all of the individual links can be corrected.

Speaking of updating the links... Which one reads better?

In order to get the link right and still have the text read well, you need to put an alternate text string in the link. Give the name of the page, then type in a vertical bar, then give the alternate text, like so: [[Kuroshitsuji (manga)|Kuroshitsuji]] or (if we want to match the usage on Anime News Network) [[Kuroshitsuji (manga)|the ''Black Butler'' manga]]

Nerdanel (talkcontribs)

I've been doing that alt text thing, but not every time...

The issue of incoming links is messy. To give some background:

  • The majority of the tropes that apply to Kuroshitsuji apply to the manga. Many tropes only apply to the manga, which has more story than all the animes put together.
  • The first anime takes a lot from the early manga but also adds a lot of new things. Some tropes are shared but the differences hit in the trope descriptions.
  • Kuroshitsuji II is the anime that has the least overlap with the manga tropes.
  • Book of Circus (which nevertheless should get a page one of these days) is basically a subset of the manga, with some minor additions.
  • Book of Murder is so much a subset of the manga that the only additional tropes that I've been able to find are about the voice actors doing a terrible job at pronouncing French.
  • The first two musicals have original stories including both old and original characters, with the original characters from the second having later appeared in the manga in an incredibly minor role, but the third is an adaptation.
  • There is an animated movie coming out. The name hasn't been announced yet. Any differences from the manga arc that is the likely target of adaptation aren't known yet.
  • The live-action movie has very little overlap with everything else.
  • The video game tropes are largely unknown outside of Japan because the text is in Japanese.

In general there is the manga continuity, the anime continuity (which doesn't include the newer animes), and the distantly related live-action movie.

Some examples:

  • Battle Butler applies to everything ever.
  • Jack the Ripper applies to the manga, the first anime, and the third musical.
  • Our Zombies Are Different currently applies only to the manga but will probably apply to the new anime movie too.
  • Casting a Shadow applies to the manga and is kind of there for Book of Circus and Book of Murder but not very clearly. The new anime movie could be a similar case.
  • Shinigami applies to everything except Book of Murder and the live-action movie.

In addition, few of the old links specify which version of Kuroshitsuji is being described. I decided that at the moment the best course of action is redirecting to the manga page and featuring the adaptations prominently. A disambiguation page would make it harder to find the work for the trope. The manga is a good first guess. I also think it would be horribly clumsy to list on a trope page five different Kuroshitsuji things that do the same trope, so I think you need to privilege some things.

An apology is in order

NoxiousSludge (talkcontribs)

Hey, I'm genuinely sorry for blowing up and insulting you days ago. I was having a bad day, but that doesn't justify me calling you a pretentious ass at all. I promise I won't respond so harshly to you, or anyone else again when this kind of discussion is taking place.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Don't know if he will forgive you, but I certainly will.

The fact you were willing to apologize says much about you as far as I'm concerned, thanks for being big enough to do so.

Nerdanel (talkcontribs)

Okay, I'll forgive you. I appreciate that you dared to apologize.

A barnstar for you!

GethN7 (talkcontribs)
The Barnstar of Diligence
This award is being presented in gratitude for your dedicated efforts in fixing numerous page links. Geth N7 - 23:25, 31 May 2014 (BST)

No Lewdness, No Prudishness

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Nerdanel: I reverted your change to All The Tropes:No Lewdness, No Prudishness because that page is a policy statement for the wiki. You make a good point -- one that should be discussed first before it gets implemented. You should not go editing policy pages to match your opinion, though, no matter how correct or well-intentioned you may be.

I will start a discussion thread in the forums about the point you raise, and you know, we may just end up agreeing with you and making the exact same change. Please come to that thread and make your case. For the moment, though, the original text stands.


Nerdanel (talkcontribs)

I thought the change was uncontroversial and already discussed, as the old policy page was a leftover from the TV Tropes era and directly contradicted the censorship policy outlined in All the Tropes: So You're a TV Tropes Refugee. It explicitly says that all the lolicon works and such are allowed to be mentioned on this wiki.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

That's true. However, this isn't a site for gushing about what turns you on either (you can do that at the Fetish Fuel site on Wikia).

Also, while I sympathize with you and most likely would have done the same thing myself, this site is reliant on community consensus for policy. Unlike TV Tropes, we prefer to hear from the community before making major policy changes, so I advise you make your case in the thread my fellow administrator set up on the forum, and we'll make the change official if there is consensus.

In this case, you already have my vote, and I'm sure no one else will object, but we'd rather everyone get a chance to have their two cents on any policy shift before we change things.

P.S. - I've made a point of finding and restoring those works deleted by TV Tropes where possible because I agree they deleted things arbitrarily. However, we still have a lot of policy pages to iron out since we've only been up a few months, so you have a chance now to make sure our policy is consistent across the wiki.

QuestionableSanity (talkcontribs)

I'd like to cast a vote of "half-yea, half-nay". We should definitely evaluate on a case-by-case basis, instead of implementing a blanket ban like TV Tropes did. But we shouldn't be too lenient on the matter, either. At the very least, we must make sure that if a non-live-action work argues in favor of pedophilia, that we allow negative troper reactions in the main page, and forbid links to and images of said work. If it is live-action, we probably shouldn't have an article on it at all.

Nerdanel (talkcontribs)

For the record, my anti-censorship stance extends to allowing negative comments on every main page.

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)
> Unlike TV Tropes, we prefer to hear from the community before making major policy changes, so I advise you make your case in the thread my fellow administrator set up on the forum, and we'll make the change official if there is consensus.

Just as a point of order, I'd like to point out that I'm not opposed to the change myself -- just that it needs to be made by consensus and not unilaterally, and that if we choose to leave something else in its place that we need to word it properly.

Labster (talkcontribs)

I saw the edit, then more or less decided not to revert it because it seemed pretty good. I was of the opinion that policy pages were open to editing for a reason -- so that people could contribute what they thought was best. It's not like we have a large enough userbase where vandalism there is a problem yet.

So I guess this me lodging a complaint about your administrative action, and about GethN7's too. I'm clearly already outvoted, but I think there's a difference between procedure for form's sake, and procedure that actually needs community consensus.

As Nerdaniel said, this was already more or less policy on our other pages. And I would like to not have to write all of the remaining policy pages myself. This is bad precedent.

GethN7 (talkcontribs)

Yeah, I'm going to have to fall on my sword on this one. I saw the edit too and didn't think it was all that bad myself, though I do think it should have been discussed with an admin first since it is a policy page, though in fairness I can't disagree with the edit itself.

Sorry Nerdanel, my bad on this one. ~.~

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

Mea culpa, then. I'll revert my changes if someone hasn't already beaten me to it.

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