User talk:TieWrex

About this board

Not editable

MOD: Official Warning

10
Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It has been drawn to my attention that you are now leaving posts (that are relatively longer than the average) on other people's message boards about your own edits regarding Garth Ennis and his works. In at least one case, you specifically mentioned keeping screen captures. In another, you have ascribed motives to another poster without any evidence.

I must draw your attention to the Terms of Service that you agreed to when you started editing here, specifically term #1:

You promise not to be a huge jerk on our site. This includes page vandalism, link spamming, abusive behavior, illegal acts (in the United States or the Netherlands), or trying to drown out others' opinions. While we expect and encourage different points of view, we don't need disagreements to affect the abilities of others to enjoy the site.

By implying that other posters are untrustworthy (by announcing you have screencaps) and attributing opinions to other posters, you have crossed the line into abusive behavior by trying to drown out others' opinions; this affects the abilities of others to enjoy the site.

MOD: This is an official warning. You are displaying intolerance of other people's opinions. Learn quickly how to respect other people's opinions - no matter whether you believe they are or are not showing you the same respect. Any further complaints about your behaviour will result in a temporary block to your account; repeated complaints may lead to a permanent block.

@TieWrex @Umbire the Phantom @Labster @GethN7 @Looney Toons @QuestionableSanity @DocColress @LulzKiller @SelfCloak


(Not-Mod: You also seem to be under the impression that Christianity is more persecuted than other Abrahamic religions. I suggest you look up some peer-reviewed studies regarding that. I'll leave it to you to find them, so that there's no risk of somebody presenting a biased sample to you.)

Looney Toons (talkcontribs)
Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Agreed - in my opinion, warnings should be public so that records of them are kept in the wiki's logfiles.

Umbire the Phantom (talkcontribs)

So mentioning screencaps could be considered a violation of Rule 1. Understandable - the only reason I'd ever brought them up myself is because I was working under the assumption that the board-to-board wasn't ENTIRELY visible, as the messages in general had been inconsistently marked as private, so I wanted to provide the full context of the conversation should it be deemed necessary.

TieWrex (talkcontribs)

While I'll check my conduct, I do have a question; where and how did I ascribe motives to another poster WITHOUT EVIDENCE? I also only mentioned screen caps because Umbire first did, and like him I didn't know it was a violation of Rule 1.

(Not-Mod response: From my research, while it varies from country to country which religion faces more persecution - addendum: in the United States, according to hate crime statistics by the victim's religious group, Jews get it worst -, GLOBALLY, Christianity seems to get the most, though I'll double check that)

Robkelk (talkcontribs)
TieWrex (talkcontribs)

The admin Looney Tunes didn't use it in the conversation with me, he used it in a conversation he was having with Umbire the Phantom about me which I unintentionally stumbled on, check their conversation log or message log between the two of them. At the risk of violating rule 1, I did take a screenshot of his statement and I can email that screenshot to you, Robkelk. The exact words are "I don't doubt you're right. We can only wait and see if he loses that special snowflake attitude that seems to plague so many modern Christians, where they seem to think that if they can't force their beliefs on everyone else, they are somehow being oppressed." End quote.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Ah. My apologies, then.

TieWrex (talkcontribs)

I just checked your email section on this. After checking the feature to send an email through this site, I'm not sure how to add images to it, but I can send it if shown how, or if you have an email address, I can send it there. I can also email another mod, such as GethN7 for example, and they can forward it to you if you want. I'm suggesting this in case you need that proof that Looney Tunes said those words. How about it?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

I'm not sure there is a way to attach an image to an email on-site. But I have no reason to doubt your word; don't worry about sending the screenshot. I expect I'll be e-chatting with Looney Toons early next week; I'll bring this up then.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

MOD: I grow tired of seeing you add potentially-libelous statements about Garth Ennis to this wiki.

I don't care what your religious beliefs might or might not be. I don't care what his religious beliefs might or might not be. I do care about making sure we do not need to defend the text on this wiki in court.

Your recent edits to the Garth Ennis page have been rolled back.

I must insist that you read Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment and reply here that you have done so.

@TieWrex @Labster @GethN7 @Looney Toons @QuestionableSanity @DocColress @LulzKiller @SelfCloak

TieWrex (talkcontribs)

I have read the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement page. While I'll accept your edits and will leave that page alone, I'm not sure I fully understand the problem; while some of what I typed is debatable and (unintentionally on my part) flame bait, which of my edits on Garth Ennis' wiki page were considered potentially libelous? I tried to limit my comments to his work, not the man himself. Correct me if I am wrong, but Christianity is the most frequently targeted religion in his works (going by Preacher and The Chronicles of Wormwood for two examples) as I have not seen him mock or criticize any other religion in his works. Has he criticized any other religion in his works? Has he done more Take Thats at them than he has Christianity? If he hasn't, then the part about him targeting Christianity most often in his works isn't libel but verified fact.

While I do see some of the edits I made to his page were unsubstantiated or violated ROCEJ, I think there were a couple that didn't and should be kept.

  • The reverted edit under the God is Evil trope point on Ennis' page says, and I quote "Ennis is an atheist, and is very forthcoming about that fact." I had changed it to "In any works by Ennis where God is in the story..." and kept the original text while adding God is portrayed as rather than God is. The problem I have with the original edit is the fact that not every atheist thinks God is evil - some of them think God is good but merely believe God doesn't exist/don't believe God exists in real life. So in my opinion the edit I made to that point (though I'd leave out the "portrayed" part) was more neutral and accurate; I request that part be re-added by a moderator please.
  • The first part of the text I added under Beware the Superman. I think the first part where I said "While most of his works have this theme such as The Boys, this is best exemplified in his 1995 comic The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe" should be kept. I concede that the second part is pretty flame-bait-y (I only added that Hate Fic part because his hatred of the superhero genre is well-known), so I suggest the following text be added to the Beware the Superman point; "While most of his works have this theme, such as The Boys, this is best exemplified in his 1995 comic The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe." That is something he really wrote, as seen here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe
  • The point I added about Wormwood's name being a shout-out to the demon Wormwood from the book "The Screwtape Letters" by C.S Lewis. Though that may be unsubstantiated, in which case never mind.

In light of this, I'll leave the page be, be careful making edits about him or any other real person or group, and make the following request; will you re-add those bits of text I suggested in the three points about Garth Ennis' works to the page about him please?

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Thank you for reading the page.

I believe you missed the point of the issue here, since you said "Correct me if I am wrong, but Christianity is the most frequently targeted religion in his works" and went on to provide examples. I say again: I don't care what his religious beliefs might or might not be.

His religious beliefs don't matter from a storytelling point of view. His actual writing does matter, because that's where the storytelling is.

"The problem I have with the original edit is the fact that not every atheist thinks God is evil" - again, that doesn't matter from a storytelling point of view. I could go on, but I trust I've made the point clear.

All The Tropes is about the building-blocks of stories - where they're found, where they aren't found, and (in our advice for writers pages) how to put them together. We aren't a place to discuss religion, let alone rant about it.

TieWrex (talkcontribs)

So what about points I suggested under "Beware the Superman" and the C.S Lewis shout out? Those don't pertain to his beliefs and as far as I can tell have no risk of being libel. I only mentioned his beliefs because the page says he's rather fond of Author Tract in his works (that's an edit I did not make, and one you allowed to remain when you rolled back my edits).

Also, since a mod warning was made, could you please tell me what exactly I've said that could be construed as libel? I also disagree with that accusation since in hindsight at worst I only made assumptions with incomplete evidence, while libel is writing deliberate lies to undermine someone's reputation.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

Ah, you're in the USA, where the definition of libel is different. Other countries don't take intent into consideration when determining what is or isn't libel, so assumptions with incomplete evidence can count as libel depending on where in the world one is.

Better not to risk it at all.

EDIT: I'm not sure about the C.S. Lewis reference - it could have been a common reference to where C. S. Lewis got the term, too. As for "Beware the Superman", go ahead and add those back in...

Thank you for your contribution of The Red Pill (Film), but...

2
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

... I would suggest that in the future you actually look at what the source for a page looks like before you create one. I would also request that in the future you please use the ATT Page Creator (linked here, but also found under "Troping Utilities" in the menu to the left on every page) for all your new non-trope pages -- this starts you off with a skeleton of all the minimum necessary markup to make sure your new page looks like all the other pages of its type on the Wiki.

I have updated The Red Pill with all the markup required to make it a functional page visually consistent with other works pages on the wiki (and did a bit of copy editing). Please take a look at what I did and make sure any future pages you create are similarly marked up.

Thank you.

-- Looney Toons, admin

CC: @Labster, @GethN7, @Robkelk, @QuestionableSanity, @DocColress, @LulzKiller, @SelfCloak

TieWrex (talkcontribs)

Thanks again. I've been away from this site for so long, I've forgotten how things work here. I will re-learn my way around and do so in the future.

Why did you make this edit?

3
Robkelk (talkcontribs)
TieWrex (talkcontribs)

I was going to discuss with that User about the YMMV page for the comic Preacher with that person, but I got confused using that category feature and decided to address this another way. So I tried to delete the category but didn't know how, so I decided to leave this be. I apologize for the misunderstanding and will delete it if shown how.

Robkelk (talkcontribs)

It's already been removed.

If you have the "HotCat" gadget enabled, then you can remove a category by selecting the minus sign immediately to the right of the category. If you don't have HotCat enabled, you can remove a category by editing the page and deleting the category (including the two sets of square brackets and the word "Category:").

Thank you for creating the page for Mass Effect: Andromeda.

2
Looney Toons (talkcontribs)

We've needed one for a while now. Thank you also for not cloning the page at TV Tropes outright. That would have been a copyright violation and we would have had to delete it, and nobody wants that. That said, while the individual tropes are not copyrighted, text describing their use in MEA is. I haven't yet compared your trope entries with those on TVT's page(s), so this is a warning just to make sure you put everything into your own words.

Now, a couple other things:

I've moved the page to Mass Effect: Andromeda because unlike TVT we can have punctuation in page names with no muss or fuss. I've also added all the basic markup for a works page to your edits, so it now looks right.

Next, if you use the ATT Page Creator to start new pages, you will get all that basic markup (and some advice) inserted into your new page for you. This will save you time, and the Admins (like me) aggravation. If you're proposing a new Trope, though, our equivalent to YKTTW is the Trope Workshop -- go there to create a new trope page (or help whip existing proposals into shape).

Finally, you may want to check out the So You're a TV Tropes Refugee page for some useful advice. You can find even more linked off of our Administrivia page; in particular, the Trope Workshop Guidelines, Works Page Guidelines and Creator Page Guidelines offer a whole lot of advice and help for creating our three main kinds of pages.

That said, welcome to All The Tropes! We hope you enjoy your time here!

TieWrex (talkcontribs)

I'll do my best, any advice would be appreciated. Since we're describing the same trope usage in the same work, it will be hard to do so.

There are no older topics