Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • I just started the game, and I've got one already. So my character was "embraced" whilst having sex with the vampire that turned him. But when he wakes up, both of them are fully clothed, despite the fact that her underwear is still draped over the lamp and you can see their clothes still strewn all over the place. Also, what if I had chosen to start as a Nosferatu? How/why the hell was my guy having consensual sex with something that looks like a human/bat/demon-thingy hybrid?
    • I never played a Nosferatu in the game but IIRC, in the tabletop one of the "obfuscate" levels allow you to disguise yourself to appear more human, that's probably what your sire did.
      • The Nosferatu introduction video confirms exactly that. Nos is actually very fun to play, don't believe the people who would have you hiding in sewers all day or creeping round obfuscated, it's not necessary.
    • It's implied that the person they say is your Sire... isn't. Saying anything more would be a hell of a spoiler.
      • If you are trying to imply that Cain, the father of all, is the sire, I don't know from where did you get that evidence. It's evident that your sire is the one being killed. If they did it under orders of Cain or Jack, that's another topic.
    • And as for the clothes lying around, who's to say those were the clothes either character was wearing, could be that all the clothes are your sires and they are just a slob.
      • Or that your Sire redressed you. Particularly appropriate for the Toreador: "What is s/he wearing? We need to sort that right now!"
  • In the Santa Monica hospital, you have the opportunity to save a stabbing victim by feeding her your vampire blood, thereby giving her super-healing. She asks what you did, and I replied "I'm a vampire. I fed you my blood, to heal you." She screams "Doctor! Security!" and instantly theres a security guard there shooting me in the face point blank. That seems a little extreme don't you think, since he doesn't even know whats going on? Even if my guy was arrested, he wouldnt go to prison for that.
    • It says right there in the manual that revealing your vampiric nature will "cause fear and panic in the streets and bring law enforcement, who would rather shoot than ask questions." It IS called the World of Darkness after all, so they're probably trained to shoot potential threats on sight. Considering how many you go through in the course of the game, it's an understandable sentiment.
  • Is La Croix really the worst Prince in the entire Camarilla? He's so terrified of the disapproval of the ANARCHS in the city (people who will hate him no matter what) that he spares your life before sending you on an obvious suicide mission. Then he proceeds to obviously betray you over and over again until you have no choice but assaulting his office Matrix style. Does it never occur to this guy to banish you? He could also have you killed at any point before you've carved your way through half of L.A's kindred and become an unstoppable death machine. Speaking of which, why does he turn on you AFTER you've done everything he's asked?
    • LaCroix and the Camarilla are new in the city, and they don't want an open war (yet). It makes sense to try not to upset the Anarch too much, since they not only outnumber the Cam, but would cause a whole lot of ruckus and endanger the Masquerade. It's one thing to be resented no matter what by somebody but it's another thing to openly provoke the aforementioned somebody. He spares the PC, and doesn't banish him/her because it would almost amount to a death sentence. "So instead of decapitating this clueless fledgeling, I'll send him away from the city so he can either die, fall in the clutches of the Sabbat, or break the Masquerade." wouldn't provoke more sympathy from Nines and in fact may be worse. So the Prince sends him/her running errands that may have him/her killed. And why not? It's a win-win situation - LaCroix and his men don't get their hands dirty, the tasks get done, the subject is treated to the whole "Behold the glory of the Camarilla, and don't forget where you stand", also, if needed, the main character can be dealt with, easily. If the PC gets killed - the Prince is rid of him/her without provoking a riot, and everybody lives happily ever after (or something). It's indicated, though, that LaCroix isn't the best Prince around (quality-wise) with him being power hungry, would-be diablerist and all. He turns on the PC for, well, being a power hungry, would-be diablerist, and the PC standing between him and removing the "would-be" from his description. Also, take out two birds with one stone - Anarch leader, thus weakening the Anarchs, and an unimportant fledgeling that just may prove too capable. And we wouldn't want that, now would we - a capable guy who could turn on us.
      • Also, why does he turn on you after you've done everything for him? He's a Kindred over 100 years old, ergo he's a massive jerk.
  • The game seems pretty ambiguous on whether or not vampires have sex or not. Jeanette still has sex with Kine but she's insane. Mercurio says that Sebastian La Croix told him that Kindred don't have sex either. However, Vivi pretty much drapes herself in sex and you can have sex with Romero in the graveyard. Are vampires nonfunctional corpses or aren't they?
    • They can have sex but it's not enjoyable. Actually, they don't feel anything. Kindred can push blood around their body to appear living, and they can even use it to...function so they can have sex, but they neither have the physical or psychological need to do it, nor can they...erm, finish the job]]. They don't feel it any different, than say polishing a sword or tickling a kitty.
    • Jeanette states you can have sex but it's a little different, after having sex with her you lose 2 blood points, probably from ejaculation, you're trading fluids but just not the conventional ones.
    • From a number of Vampire: The Masquerade sourcebooks: Vampires can have sex with humans or each other, but will only enjoy it if there's blood-drinking involved. Take that for what you will.
  • It bugs me that there's no middle ground in the Anarch and Lone Wolf endings between leaving LaCroix with the key to the sarcophagus and opening the sarcophagus yourself. If you've been told "Don't open it," why should it follow that you should let the guy you just stabbed repeatedly get the chance to open it, possibly gaining the power to take revenge on you? Wouldn't it be reasonable to contemplate the possibilities of:
    • Dumping the key in the Pacific?
    • Destroying the key outright?
    • Stabbing LaCroix to death?
    • Diablerizing LaCroix to Final Death?
      • Because Beckett specifically tells the player that anyone who opens it is going to have a very, very bad day, not that opening it will unleash an antediluvian. Consider: Beckett doesn't believe in Gehenna, and there is no antediluvian in the sarcophagus. This means that the only reason for him to freak out at you like he does is that, while examining the sarcophagus, he discovered what was really inside it, and he's warning you because he considers you a friend. The choice isn't about what to do with LaCroix, it's about whether or not you heed Beckett's advice. Beckett is, after all, one of only two people you can actually trust, and if opening the box would mean Gehenna, he'd have told you that. He's vague because once he discovers what's in the box, he's smart enough to see what's really going on and wants you to let LaCroix see it through to the end, so he won't chance that you're loyal to LaCroix and possibly give up the secret.
        • Not the guy who started this, but I share his complaint. Maybe I didn't get the right dialog, but to me Beckett's warning seemed to very strongly suggest that, though not an Antediluvian or harbinger of Gehenna, the opening of the Sarcophagus would be a bad thing for a lot more than just the top floors of LaCroix's tower. His warning was quite urgent enough to suggest that at least Downtown LA and maybe quite far beyond would be in serious trouble, and to my mind my character had no reason to want it opened, but if it was to be opened he had every reason to be the one to do it, because he had proven himself the best chance to actually stop whatever might be inside it before it could do too much damage. Not to mention that whilst Beckett is trustworthy, he isn't necessarily right, and his near-panicked state followed immediately by getting the hell out of Dodge, combined with the game's general apocalyptic theme, could suggest that it actually is something to do with Gehenna and he just has trouble admitting it in as many words.
          • What on earth made you people think that was Beckett you were talking to? Perhaps my Malkavian character rubbed off on me too much and I was just paranoid, but I took that meeting to be an impossibly transparent, last-ditch ploy by Ming Xiao.
            • Simple. The prophet ont he beach says that there are two people you can trust. The lone wolf, and the man on the couch. Considering she has perfect, yet scattered statements on the envents of teh coming story and no connection to anyone (thinblood and all that), there is literally no way she could be manipulating you out of more than the $20 you gave her. Even if she could, why would Troika put that there, without a 'ha ha, that beach Malkavian was actually in my employ!' reveal?
          • Beckett was so vague it actually made me even more curious what the heck is in that damn sarcophagus. I have to agree there should have been some sort of middle ground choice where you'll heed Beckett's warning and not let anyone open it. Also destroying the key in front of La Croix would have been a very epic alternative to totally breaking him. Just imagine the glorious Freak-Out that'll more than likely happen. Though IMHO, Troika never had a chance to really flesh out the end of VTMB, hence lots of things in the end phase feel very unpolished, such Beckett last conversation with the PC.
            • Camarilla ending doesn't give you a choice in the matter (where Strauss takes control as the new prince), he has the sarcophagus sealed in a warehouse so nobody can open it.
    • It might be the same reason why Lacroix used a convoluted plot using you, Ming and a sacrificed Grout just to target Nines for death by Blood Hunt. Just ordering the Camarila under his command to just attack on Anarch ground would end in a blood bath. If Nines told his gang to storm Lacroix's tower, it would ignite a war and potentially see LA being swarmed by Cams even if (or especially if) they managed to dust Lacroix. Covert operations was the way to go.
      • If you joined the Anarchs, its highly likely someone (Jack?/Cabbie?) told you what was inside hence the "From the Anarchs" line, so your only worry was to walk away from the blast radius before a crippled Lacroix can open it.
        • If you are indipendent, you've probably picked up enough hints to know that Lacroix opening the box is bad news, and honestly, wouldn't it be better that Lacroix bear the brunt of it rather than some innocent schmuck?
        • As for the Cam ending with Straus, well, Lacroix is gone and even though there weren't any fire works, its still a partial "win" for Jack as while there isn't a very clear, very bright, burning, and public sign that a Camarila Prince just unleashed hell on himself and his own tower by his own hands....meh (waste of C4 and a view), Straus at least seems an improvement over Lacroix in that he doesn't seem to suffer from Chronic Backstabbing Disorder and can be polite. Also, what Lacroix said about being the only one capable of uniting the Anarchs and Camarila is still true.
  • Why does Strauss allow the Sabbat to kidnap your ghoul? For a man who is calculating and brilliant, he pretty much loses a valuable ally and also makes himself look weak. The fact that the Sabbat broke into their Chantry and left unpunished is just so utterly Un-Tremere that its utterly insane.
    • I think it's actually meant to suggest that Strauss isn't as awesome as he thinks he is. This is surely the intended impression for the player whenever we listen to him talk or have to clean up his messes, he falls squarely into the template of an archetypal elder who doesn't keep up with the times and functions by looking at everyone else down his nose.
    • The Sabbat don't necessarily need to break into your haven to kidnap Heather. They probably just ambushed her when she went out for something (even ghouls have to eat).
      • The most recent version of the unofficial patch (though I'm not sure if this is restored content or something Wesp added) gives you an option to order Heather to stay inside, in which case she will survive. So I guess the answer is that the Sabbat never do break into the Chantry.
        • That would be something that the developers chose to take out, making her even more tragic, that Wesp has reactivated. The idea of having a ghoul who has a happy ending isn't really in vibe with the rest of the game.
          • I dunno... Mercurio and Romero both seem pretty content with their situations.
          • Going back to Strauss, he did honestly imply that he sees Heather as a liability to the PC, one could argue Strauss could have let the Sabbat break into the Chantry, on the grounds he was doing the PC a favor. The Tremere are after all by nature a very cold, manipulative, by-the-numbers bunch.
  • It Just Bugs Me that people keep considering the cabbie to be Caine purely based on the name of the folder that contains his sound files. Yes, he seems to be a fairly powerful vampire. Yes, it is heavily implied that he, in fact, is considerably strong. Yes, it's cool to think it is Caine. Yes, the Malk character utters something about it at the end of the game. No, nothing aside from the sound folder directly says it is Caine. And even that's not absolutely positive (assumong Troika didn't just forget to rename the files). I believe it is more plausible that the cabbie is a low generation Malkavian, perhaps even a Methuselah: powerful? Check. File names? He believes he is Caine. Or that is his name. Or he just took up this as a pseudonym. Either way - check. The Malk PC freaking out? For one, when did the Malkavian become utterly reliable? The PC has conversations with a stop sign and with the TV, so that doesn't make for exactly a sound opinion on his part. Also, if the cabbie is a Malkavian Methuselah, the Malk PC has every right to refer to him as a Dark Father (IIRC, the PC doesn't even call him a Dark Father per se but something else that implies it). In addition, if the cabbie is a powerful Malkavaian who really believes he is Caine, that can very "fool" the PC. That, and high levels Obfuscate. So, back to the PC comment - check.

    I even cooked up a different theory, just in order to show that all the facts don't necessarily mean the cabbie is Caine, here it goes: the cabbie is a Setite Methuselah.
  1. The dark glasses hide his serpentine eyes
  2. Obfuscate ensures everybody would be deceived
  3. He pretty much ensures that a power struggle brakes off between the vampire factions in the city and no matter who the winner is, everyone is shaken up pretty bad. And the winner (no doubt a one very high up the hierarchy) just might get blown apart. Sort of what Setites are likely to do.
  4. Malk freaks out, because of obscene levels of Obfuscate and/or Presence, as well as a Methuselah. Also, Malks are unreliable as mentioned above.
  5. calls himself Caine or tries to pose as him, for his own purposes

    Not a very good theory but decent enough. And that's before even using "canon says he isn't Caine". Heck, for that matter canon says Smiling Jack acted quite unlike himself after the encounter. Some could say Emotion Raped by Presence. As, you know, a Setite could and would do, if it suits him. And hey, he even got the legendary Brujah to do some gardening - bonus! Even a Malkavian could pull that off with Dementation, in support of my first theory. It Just Bugs Me.
  • It's not purely based on the name of the folder, it's purely based on the implications in-game, for which the folder is something to freak out about when looking for clues. At the end of the day, the reason that it's 'cool' to think of the cabbie as Caine is that it's presented to be cool for the cabbie to be Caine (the devs clearly also thought it was cool) and the fact that it's intentional just makes it even more appealing.
    • Implications like...what? That he is certainly a powerful vampire? That he is all cryptic and stuff? He seems to have orchestrated everything? It just doesn't scream "Caine" to me. Sure, you can throw in the fact that the PC seems favoured but yet again it doesn't have to be Caine. Heck, a Malkavian elder makes a hell lot more sense, since he would at least have a reason to bother.
      Also, what if the devs thought it cool. For all we know, the name may have been left over from something that didn't make it into the game.
      • The game goes out of its way to make sure you know who Caine is, even if you're not at all versed in oWoD lore. The developers clearly wrote the character to have an ambiguous identity; they say as much when asked. He mentions Enoch a few times if you take the dialog tree in certain directions, which no other vampire does, partially because many don't believe it even existed. He emphasizes that "the blood of Caine" determines the fate of vampires, while acting as a metaphorical parallel to fate, giving you the illusion of free choice but ultimately being a necessary part of your quest in order for you to advance to one of only a few possible outcomes (important lines: "I'm just a driver, I can't take you anywhere unless you tell me where you want to go." "Where do you want to go?") Note that his motivation is largely to see which of the endings you'll chose after his plan plays out to the endgame; this is not any more of a thing a Malkavian would do. I could say the same critique of the Malkavian view, that Caine could just as believably want to observe the way his descendants behave when faced with certain choices as much as an old Malkavian would have fun the scenario; it's only possible he's a Malkavian because Malkavians can manifest their insanity in any way, which means you can't disprove the idea based solely on the notion that he could have some sort of mental derangement that causes him to do both the things he does and to carry himself the way he does, complete with Noddest thematics. "Those wacky Malkavians, they can be so unknowable sometimes!" is no more a concrete reason then "That brooding Caine, he can be so unknowable sometimes!" There is no right answer, and the character was intentionally written to have no right answer. He could be a recent replacement for Lucinde as the Ventrue Justicar for all we know, manipulating events so that the clan's own dim view of LaCroix and his territory doesn't become known while still getting things under control. There's nothing wrong with going for the answer you like better. It shouldn't matter that the answer you like better just happens to be one other then the answer many other players like.
      • Any vampire older than 500-600 is likely to have heard about Enoch, before the Camarilla declared it a fairy tale and went to some lengths to disprove it. With the exception of Beckett and Andrei, the other NPCs probably don't know enough about Enoch to refer to it in a casual conversation (not that it matters, since it's never even brought up. How many times has Eden come up in an conversation during the last week? Or month? 1-2 times at most? And note that Eden is more popular with humans than Enoch is with Kindred.) but Beckett does believe that it's not real and Andrei doesn't really get much lines, nor does he start citing Kindred history, before he tries to gut you.

        As for the cabbie being a Malk, derangement, it isn't only a matter of "Malks' madness is unpredictable" (well, it's part of it anyway): There is at least one Malkavian, or even more, likely a group of Malkavians who believe they are Caine. Low-gen, old and powerful Malkavian(s) to be exact. He/they travel the world, act all mysterious, try to appear "fated", and drop hints of their "true" nature (they are Caine, after all). Remind you of somebody? There is at least one of them buried somewhere in Vt M fluff, but I've come across info about a group of half a dozen, or maybe a dozen, or so members of the group. Don't remember if it was official or some sort of fan thing, though.

        Of course, there is also the cannon, which sort of implies the cabbie wasn't Caine, if one wishes to think outside the box game. In fact, Caine can't have even been in LA at that time. But whatever. People seem to want to disregard that, most of the time, so I'm not bringing it up
        • I wasn't trying to disprove that it's a Malkavian; I acknowledged long ago that it's ambiguous. The point isn't that it can't be one, the point is that it could be either, and it just so happens that more players prefer the one you don't. (As for canon, the Gehenna novel hardly means anything; the devs likely didn't have access to it during development. White Wolf canon operates heavily on "throw out what you don't like," and even if you don't, it's not far-fetched to think Caine just planted himself in the cave for Beckett to find him in later.)
          • It Just Bugs Me when people consider a single piece of work as gospel truth in a universe that by its own internal rules allows anything (up to and including entire rulebooks) within its canon to be solemnly and summarily ignored whenever an author feels like doing so. It doesn't matter if the Gehenna novel said that Caine was sleeping somewhere or another during VTMB's timeframe -- if the game authors feel like saying he was in LA driving a fledgling around in a cab, then that's where he was inside that particular piece of work. The Gehenna rulebook itself has FOUR completely different end-of-the-world scenarios, and each has wildly different information regarding Caine's whereabouts, activities, intentions, etc. And in addition to that, that book's appendix (called "The First Vampire") specifically deals with how to use Caine in a Gehenna setting/story. To sum it up: Caine is such an otherworldly entity that he can only be used as a plot device (as opposed to a regular character) and, as such, has to be "adapted" to each particular Gehenna story -- this can take any form, from having him being the übermaster of the Jyhad, to having died a long time ago, to not having existed at all. It Just Bugs Me whenever someone chooses to ignore all that and shun any conflicting theories dealing to Caine with "it says so in the Gehenna novel" as their only argument for doing so.
            • Basic rule of storytelling actually dictates that the Cabbie can't be a Caine Imposter in relation to Bloodlines. Reason? There is no mention of Caine Imposters in the actual Game, and unless the makers of the game were trying to troll us, it's unlikely they intended the signs to be anything but Father of Vampires himself. Within the game itself, they only use the term "Father" for two things. God and Caine. The Ancient Vampires do not have the same Almighty reverence a title such as "Father" is, and within the game they are mostly called ancestors. Unless the Game itself is being a Dick, Troika Games intended the Cabbie to be Caine. However, White Wolf's Publication is still, by nature, higher canon then Bloodlines, so it's a moot point.
    • Official policy with all White Wolf productions is to ignore what you don't like. So, if you don't like the cabbie being Caine, ignore all potential clues that suggest he might be Caine. If you do like the cabbie being Caine, take the clues and run with them. Works out nicely, yeah?
    • Can't Cain use one of the various 10 dot plot device powers to be in two places at once?
      • He doesn't have to, that's why waving around the Gehenna novel as "cabbie isn't Caine proof" is absurd even if you're not willing to believe it without canon support; the novel takes place after Bloodlines. He wouldn't need to use his plot device powers to be in two places at once, just to make it look like he was waiting where Beckett found him for longer than he was actually there. Which probably wouldn't require actual effort anyway. There is no actual conflict between the two. And this is, again, only relevant if you absolutely must fit different sources of canon, in a system that operates on different sources deliberately ignoring each other when convenient, together perfectly.
        • There's a critical flaw in that theory. Caine in the Book and Caine in the Game have COMPLETELY different personalities. Caine in the Book is a Self-inflicted Pariah who WILLINGLY decided to lock himself forever because of how much he hates vampire politics, and couldn't care less about what happens anything else. Caine in the Game is a Dark Father that is playfully orchestrating a test in a way to see if there's any way for his Childer to survive after Gehenna. Curiously, there's no real reason why the Caine in the Cave could be the actual imposter instead, though personality-wise he doesn't exactly match the typical Caine Imposter.
    • One reason why people might be attracted to the idea of the Cab Driver being Caine is that it allows for WMGs that explain the discrepancy between the power the player character begins with and the power he/she ends with (and that comment by Andrei at Hallowbrook Hotel), considering that a) the start and end of the game are only separated by a couple of nights, b) the player character starts out as suspectible to domination by LaCroix, but by the end-game is unaffected. Low-generation Malkavians are really powerful, but not quite up to Caine's Vampire God level - that is, it is a bit of a stretch for them to be able to raise your generation without it being immediately noticeable and without leaving a diablerizing-mark on your aura.
  • Jack is smoking in the ending. Aside from the wiseness of vampire+fire, is that even possible for oWoD vampires to do?
    • Good point. But yes numerous bits of artwork produced by White Wolf show vampires smoking (Particularly Toreador ones for some reason) although I can't remember if it's ever addressed. I guess White Wolf and Troika by extension just thought smoking is cool.
    • While they don't HAVE to breathe, taking air in and out of the body is still required for thinks like talking. Since they can do THAT, we can presume their lungs to work just fine, muscle-wise. Physically, yes. Vampires can smoke.
      • I meant more along the lines of whatever he is smoking having an effect on his system (given the "blood is a kindred's only vice" stuff.)
        • It could easily have a psychological effect. Either it's an old habit and the physical action sticks, or Jack (and any other vampires who smoke) just thinks it's cool, too. Probably a mix of both, to varying degrees, beyond the individual.
        • Rules-speaking, Vampires gain nothing from smoking (except for a handy method of inspiring Rötschreck in their fellow Kindred if they brandish the cig). Vampires can get effects by drinking blood containing Nicotine, and can indeed get Nicotine addiction from it too. But they can't get Nicotine addictiong from smoking, since they have no bloodstream of their own for the Nicotine to enter.
    • Most Brujah would break your face for suggesting they are similar to the Toreador, but they do have a lot in common. They both have Celerity, Presence and a preoccupation over how things make them appear. Jack is smoking because he thinks he looks more badass with a fat cigar.
      • It's been mentioned in plenty of Vt M fiction that one of the dead giveaways that a vampire is dead is that their breath doesn't mist up the air during winter. There are two ways vampire's get around this; one is to spend blood to mimic that effect, and the other is to smoke so people can see that their bleeding. Plus, Jack could just smoke because he likes smoking (or because he'll one day be turned into a robot that bends things and has a taste for cigars.
  • I know it's due to gameplay but our protag seems to become quite powerful in a few night considering he/she's fresh and newer generation to boot.
    • I remember hearing that he's actually 7th generation (though I can't remember the source), which is actually pretty good. As for the rapid progress, it's implied that Cain (issues of being elsewhere aside) is accelerating your progress, just so he can see how you personally respond to the LA situation.
      • Wouldn't that make your sire 6th generation? If so, what was the point of all that show?
      • According to the number of blood points and the rules of the source game, the protagonist would be 8th generation.
        • The point of the show is that Lacroix is trying to play prince in a city that thinks he's a jester. By making a spectacle of killing an elder over a (relatively) minor offense, he's trying to prove he's got power, and that he's fair in dispensing justice and won't play favorites. And yeah, from the number of Blood Points you have, you're about 8th generation, which puts you on the higher side of average (most elders are 6th-8th generation).

LaCroix does state that, up to that night, he had seen the sire as an upstanding and loyal member of the vampire community, and it was a flagrant violation of the Traditions...

  • The Werewolf Blood quest bugs me. Doesn't any part of a werewolf that detaches from its body revert to human form and become indistinguishable from regular human body parts, blood included? There should be no problem with the werewolf blood in the hospital because it's not even werewolf blood anymore.
    • The Jester Prince is hardly an expert on the subject...
    • It apparently does not in this game. If you go for the Anarch ending, Nines shows off a werewolf head to the player.
      • Indeed, Werewolf the apocalypse DOES state that any blood from a werewolf will be normal human blood (or wolf-blood in wolf form). The fact is that vampires, the race whose whole society is BASED upon blood, don't know this. To not mock any vampire further, drinking werewolf blood is PCP for vampires, so it makes sense they think it does the same for humans.
      • Also, two explanations for the werewolf head 1) when killed, werewolves return to their normal form. Not all of them are born human (when the mother is a woman or a werewolf that is "natively" human) - the majority, yes, but some are born as wolves (if the mother is a wolf or a werewolf is "natively" a wolf) and some are born to two werewolf parents. These are known as metis, and are widely considered to be the scum of the Garou society (think a Nosferatu but more reviled). Their normal form is that Crinos the half-human half-wolf battle shape they are when they show up. 2) Rule of Cool - that's a thing in the World of Darkness. Sometimes vampires will show up with the severed head of another vampire to show to, say, the Prince. This does conflict with "vampires turn to ash" but apparently, White Wolf are willing to disregard it if it would make for a better story. So same thing with the werewolf - it died in Crinos form, his head would be in Crinos form because it's better that way.
  • When you see the Ankaran Sarcophagus on the Elizabeth Dane, it has been opened and bloody hand prints can be seen on the lid. Why after this report does everybody assume that whatever was in there is still in there?
    • Because it's not anywhere else on the ship. If it slaughtered the entire crew then it should have slaughtered the cops if it was still on the ship, or it should have started slaughtering everyone in Santa Monica when it reached the mainland. But it's not on the boat and it's not doing anything on the mainland, so by process of elimination it's back in the Sarcophagus. There's also no solid proof that it has been openned; there's a bloody hand print on the lid but the Sarcophagus itself is still locked.
    • But people were dying in Santa Monica at the time. Remember the serial killer on the loose? Sure, the murders started before the Elizabeth Dane, but it's posible that some of the later killings were mis-attributed to the same killer. On top of that, people die in big cities all the time. How much difference would one predator make in a city full of killers?
    • The difference between a pack of rabid dogs and a Grizly Bear. The word on everyone's lips was Antideluvian, and they have neither need nor desire to be subtle when quenching their almost bottomless thirst. So yeah, I guess somebody who didn't believe that there was either a dead king or an Antideluvian could logically believe what you suggest, but when all the elders in teh city are getting jumpy because of it, and not for the 'breaking the Masquerade' reason, it would be a little harder to think that there wouldn't be one.
  • So what exactly was the creepy chinese shop-keeper? Apparently the Malk PC knows what he is...
    • A very badly disguised chinese spy.
      • No, I mean the other shopkeeper, the one that gives you the eyes quest.
    • Mr. Ox? I have a theory: the Kuei-Jin are said (by the Malk) to fear a "Yama King" demon that will eventually eat their souls. Since in Chinese/Japanese Myhtology one of the Hell Keepers is Ox-headed, maybe Mr. Ox is a disguised Yama King or something like that?
      • The thing you are referring to is an Akuma, and was also my view, having actually played Kindred of the East. Every hell is ruled by a Yama King, who are served by Akuma. To become Akuma all anyone needs to do is to really want to be one, sucks to be you if you change your mind.
      • If you attack him, Mr. Ox uses the same teleporation technique that the Kuei-Jin Brothers in the Giovanni Stronghold used, so it's likely he's just another Kuei-Jin. Which is a bit disappointing.
      • Akuma are basically just the equivalent to Sabbat vampires for the Kuei-Jin, although more on the satanic side, so this still somewhat fits.
    • Other theories that fit his powers and attitude: A Demon (unlikely, but possible), a Naphandus (rather likely), an Askashic Brother (would have to be a really creepy one), a Maurauder or a manifested Wraith (probably not).
  • Question! Therese claims to be a Ventrue while her sister Jeanette is a Malkavian. However, considering that they're both the same person (as Beckett say, They are Malkavian), Therese should have Malkavian disciplines (like Auspex, Obfuscation and Dementation). So, how can she possibly pass for a Ventrue!? Their disciplines don't match at all!
    • Dementation works very much the same as Domination and that's really all that Ventrue really needs.
    • Many ventrue make it a point of pride to never be seen using disciplines. Officially they consider it a show of weakness, unofficially they don't want people knowing how high they've got them.
    • That's also not to mention that some of the older Malkavians were given Dominate instead of Dementation when the insanity was "recessive" as it were. Also you can buy out of clan disciplines in the game so her insanity might have prompted her to seek out the Ventrue clan disciplines. She might not have them in the game (I have never looked) but it is easily explained.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sabbat is supposedly composed by Tzimisce and Lasombra. So why not even one single Lasombra get mentioned in game?
    • Because the game's portrayal of the Sabbat is pretty primitive. Aside from Andrei, it's pretty much restricted to Shovelheads, because they're the bad guys anyway. There is one point where you're attacked by Lasombra women in the Sabbat HQ though, however it is not elaborated on. Then again, they also had a Tremere Antitribu, a kind that supposedly died out. Also, it's not like they HAVE to show all clans. We never saw a Ravnos or Setite, after all.
      • Also the Lasombra aren't exactly foot soldiers. They're very much in line with the Ventrue or Toreador of the Camarilla in that they are more often behind the scenes doing their work. While it's odd that we never see them it's perfectly explainable by simply hand-waving it as us only seeing the rank and file antitribu types in the game.
        • Come to think of it, even of those we only get to see the Brujah and Gangrel, even though the real core of the Sabbat consists of the antitribu of most Clans. Yeah, the game didn't exactly give much thought to the Sabbat here.
          • True, but it's still easily explainable. The Sabbat are even newer to LA, and have even less presence, than the Camarilla. They seem to have less than a hundred members active in the city, and their main base of operations is a single abandoned hotel. They've basically only just gotten a foothold into the city, and their numbers aren't yet large enough to need more than one high-ranking leader there. That's also why there are hardly any Camarilla elders in LA, too. Vampiric elders are all cautious and paranoid as a rule (if they weren't, they'd be dead by now), so they're not going to risk their necks out on the frontier.
  • Wouldn't people notice Imalia going missing?
    • Sure, but this is the World of Darkness, so you'd expect a half-assed police investigation at best, then people deciding that she probably had an accident or was abducted or killed herself or whatever, anyway, she'd be filed missing and her fans would move on to a new idol quickly. The Nosferatu might have been pulling some strings, too. Technically, this is an issue for all vampires, but the famous ones especially.
      • Actually, if you search one of the computers at Ground Zero, you can come across Imalia's entry, which says that she went missing, and later her wrecked car was discovered, the remains within were burned beyond recognition. So she's legally dead.
  • Is there anyone else who thinks flipping off part in the independent ending is a bit too much? Sure, I can understand the PC is tired of being jerked around and all but the Anarchs, particularly Nines, are the reason he/she wasn't killed along his/her sire in the first place. Sure saving you could very much be a political move by Nines as well but at least the guy deserves a tinge of respect. And alienating yourself with the one group that doesn't want kill you after all the crap you did to the Sabbat, Kuei-jin and Camarilla isn't very smart either. Having a lot of enemies and practically no allies(not necessarily friends) in the World of Darkness universe is just as good as the PC standing in the open and waiting for the sun to rise. Inexplicably powerful fledgling vampire or not.
    • Actually, if you understand why that is such a bad move, you'll understand the point of the ending. The fledgeling is commiting a social (and maybe even literal) suicide. Remember that even if they've been fairly self-sufficent through the game,they still benefitted from both anarch and camarilla. Now they have no one. Through the game, it becomes very clear why you need allies, but also how raw the unlife is. So the fledgeling is trading a longer unlife to a blaze of glory. Consider what they've done so far, it is fairly IC.
    • Hmm. I never actually thought of it that way. More fitting for a Gangrel, Brujah and maybe a Nosferatu PC but yeah good point. Thanks for the insight.
    • Actually, given their clan disposition, a Brujah would probably be flipping people off even in the other endings.
    • Question: If you didn't want to flip off the Anarchs then why didn't you choose their ending? Secondly: Nines is a big boy, I think he can handle being insulted once or twice without wanting to kill you.
      • I would be inclined to agree with you, except that Nines (and all the Anarchs, really) are Not So Different from the Camarilla as they think in terms of their attitudes. Nines gets every bit as petty and pissed off as LaCroix does if you even dare question his motives or compare him to them, even though, just like LaCroix, he basically spends the whole game getting you to be his errand boy. He probably won't be all "call the blood hunt" just because you told him where he could stick it, but he'll likely be sore about it for a while.
  • Here's one: who is this guy the paranoid Dr.Grout is so afraid of? I thought it might be LaCroix, but none of the other elder vampires is afraid of him. Sure, Jack and Strauss are older than him, so he is not particularly scary for them. But Nines, who is certainly younger than LaCroix, doesn't seem to be afraid of him; neither is Isaac. Hell, even the Malkavian PC (who is a few nights old) calls him "Jester-Prince" and since Malkavians have Insight, we may assume that Dr. Grout also knew that LaCroix was but a jester. So, who scared the shit out of poor Dr.Grout?
    • It could be Grout sensing LaCroix's plans. Or just that he senses his evil intentions,and being a fairly uneducated vampire, he does not deal with it well.
    • As to why Nines and Issac aren't scared of LaCroix, they're Anarchs and Anarch figureheads at that. Their very existance is a personal insults vampires many times LaCroix's age and power, if they were the sort to get imtimidated they would have given up decades ago.
    • And considering Grout's mental disability is a very bad case of paranoid personality disorder (or possibly schizophrenia), it might have been powerful enough override his logic and blow the threat La Croix imposed way out of proportion. But then again, Grout's paranoia may have been justified considering his state when you find him. Heck, he might foreseen his own demise.
    • I always assumed he was referring to Cain, that his inner voices were telling him Cain would be coming or of course he could be referring to Bach.
  • During the Pain Of Being Mercurio, why didn't Mercurio just ask for blood from the PC Vampire? If a little once a month gives a ghoul semi-vampire status, a few sips should have healed him right up.
    • There's probably some etiquette involved in feeding another vampire's ghoul your own blood. Not to mention Mercurio probably would only have accepted as a very last resort; drinking a vampire's blood leads to blood bonding (see: Heather). Yes, it takes three sessions for the bond to be complete, but emotional attachment forms even before then, meaning he would have had to deal with certain conflicting loyalties.
      • Worrying about etiquette and conflicting loyalties when you are beaten as badly as Mercurio seems a bit silly. Besides, Mercurio ended up being one of the few people you could trust anyway.
        • If I had a Domitor as pissy as LaCroix I would worry too.
        • Well, would you want to make yourself artificially loyal to somebody you've just met just so you could heal up a bad beating a little bit faster? When Mercurio tells you his loyalties to LaCroix are "all but written in blood", he's not kidding; blood bonding gives you a powerful compulsion to do whatever the vampire tells you, so it's not a decision to make lightly, even if it does wear off eventually if you don't feed from them again.
  • The creators kinda dropped the ball with the Anarchs VS Camarilla loyalities, atleat to this troper. Yes,Anarchs might be using you, but not only are there more nice anarch NPCs you can actually shoot shit with (Isaac is the best example), you actually feel they appericate you more and have done more for you. Camarilla has LaCroix, Gary and Strauss. LaCroix REALLY doesn't incite respect, Strauss does,but he hasn't got too much to say. And Gary is met too late to matter,and is for Nosferatu more than Camarilla. You really don't get much out of them as you do from the Anarchs,and they are too few and you don't even get to meet your fellow neonates. This creates an atmoshoere where you really feel the anarchs care about you more than the camarilla. Hence,why joining them seems more likely for the PC to do.
    • Which considering the endings is probably how the devs wanted it to be.
    • The Anarchists being nicer, boss? To this trooper they seemed as developed as the Camarilla; developed in a way you could choose what side was the best. In my opinion, people get too attached to the Anarchists without noticing that they point of the game is that everyone (yes, that includes Nines Rodriguez) is using you for their convenience. In fact, the Anarchists don’t even give you rewards after you do their dirty work, they just act “ok, thanks or whatever”, the Camarilla gives you money and talismans.
    • A couple of points: Gary isn't Camarilla or Anach, he's Nosferatu and bugger anyone else. More to the point, La C Roix is not the Camarilla ending, he's the LaCroix ending. Strauss, the nice(r) guy, is the real Camarilla loyalist. Lacroix is an ambitious would-be tyrant.

When dealing with the Society of Lepold, I noticed they rigged explosives inside their base set to go off if it sensed a vampire's heat signature.

  • But vampires DON'T have a heat signature.
  • As the Mandarin said in the Chinatown club Glaze: "I am monitoring your body heat. It is room temperature."
    • He's grandstanding. Vampires are colder than humans by a long way but not room temperature. They're full of stolen blood and they move around, so generate some heat.

Odd thought. Why did not occur to anyone, LaCroix in particular, that a modern day power tool like a jack hammer or an industrial sized pile driver if you want overkill, could be used to open the Ankaran Sarcofaghus?

  • If its empty, no big loss asides from the waste of time, money and effort. Trifles to a Ventrue Prince like LaCroix.
  • If it has an ancient evil in it, best to open in a time and place (like, at ground zero of a nuke test site) of your choosing.
  • If there IS an Ancient Vampire to Diablerize, waiting for a missing key to open a coffin made of rock (which isn't be best material to resist a sledgehammer in the hands of even a "weak" vampire like Lacroix) seems silly when you can bust it open, by hand if need be.

The only possible explanation I could surmise was that Lacroix is being careful and wanted it opened as quietly as possible as to not "wake up" what he believed was a sleeping Ancient that might go on a killing spree. Even that doesn't seem to quite fit though, as he's put the Sarcofaghus in the same room as him in his office, making him potential casualty #1, Sheriff or no Sheriff to hide behind.

  • There are so many horrible booby traps, mystical and otherwise, that one can set up for something opened incorrectly.

So, what happened to the Dane crew? Jack would be a thrall of the beast if he did it, so who?

  • Cabbie. If it is Caine he's done a LOT worse and I'm not sure the Curse allows him to fall to the Beast. That would let him off his punishment. And in any case you need to do more than kill people to completely los yourself to the Beast. A serial killer vampire is still Humanity 3 or 4.

It just bugs me a little that every haven (with the exception of the Nosferatu) you get in the game has uncovered windows.

  • Actually, only the very crappy first apartment seemed to have windows. The Skyline and Chantry havens are windowless.
    • Well, the Tremere chantry has curtained-over windows, which would be useless against sunlight, really but I guess it's better than nothing.
    • Maybe if you open the curtains you get to see a brick wall?
      • Or there's shutters.

Odd thought, when Skelter asked you to deal with a Ghoul named Patty who was looking for a blood fix, why was there no option of just giving her some YOUR vampire blood. Sure Patty seems like a Jerkass but killing her (by sending her to Vandal, Pisha, alley for you to drain dry or just kill) seems a bit drastic. Making her your pet seems a much less cruel and leaves less lose ends than the in-game Take a Third Option of telling her "master" is in another city. Sooner or later she's going to figure out she's been had and when she starts screaming bloody murder about Vampires, she'll be in another city, out of your immidiate reach, and likely ANNOYING the local Vampires there (if any), as well as wrecking hell on the Masquerade.

  • By that point, you may already have another pet (Heather) and people might be concerned if you start 'collecting' ghouls. Besides, if you recruit Patty, she's probably a little too crazy to be of uch use. I agree that murder is a little extreme, but if you don't someone else will, inevitably.
  • Two Ghouls is hardly a 'collection', I recall Grout's mansion being full of em. As a good, non-murdering vamp, letting her go to 'eventually' get killed by other vamps that get annoyed by her doesn't seem much better than the Vandal or Pisha choice.
    • Grout's a primogen. You're just some random off the street who got embraced. Besides, Grout's Malkavian to boot, he probably gets a bit of leeway, and it's implied that very few people have actually been in his mansion and seen what he's been up to. People might start talking however, if some random neonate of uncertain loyalties started putting together his or her own cabal of minions.
      • Since YOU are the neonate in question, putting together a cabal of minions might still count as the LEAST worrying thing about you. Given that you killed a Sabbat Elder, Werewolf, Kuei Jin clan with Priestess, and one joke of a Prince and his Bodygurd, possibly all in one night, you're entitled to a little slack right? Two Ghouls seem like a start.
      • In fairness, Unless you've postponed the quest to the endgame for some reason, by that point you haven't done anything but blow up a sabbat warehouse. Impressive, but not as mindblowing as all the stuff you've mentioned.
      • Point. Still, blowing up the Sabbat Warehouse, (and doing the Haunted Hotel Quest) something no other Vampire (and all of them older/more experienced than your barely a week of nights old self) bothered or dared to do is something isn't it? Buying time to justify your Ghouls.
      • I think, at this point, Lacroix giving you a haven and (at least publicly) making you his emissary, and allowing you to keep your ghoul, is already ASTOUNDINGLY lucky, when, as a Camarilla prince, he would be well within his rights to execute you, Anarchs be damned. Having two might be pushing your luck a little.
        • I've always kind of assumed that LaCroix is giving you all this, when it should be your Clan's duty to teach you, because it makes you easier to manipulate. Prince's emissary might as well be 'scapegoat' among vampires.
        • Oh, no question he's trying to manipulate you, and get you to do his dirty work, but this is Vampire. That's kind of expected. Realistically though, as far as Camarilla laws go, he is still being remarkably leniant. And you pushing the boundaries of that leniancy would be more than enough reason to behead you.
        • Attempting to behead the PC outside of the astonishingly small window of opportunity between bewildered neonate and Killing Machine is likely to lead to a curbstomping. Wonder what the implications of THAT would be....
    • Back to the original question, the reason you can't feed Patty your blood is because she is blood bound to another vampire. That is she is obsessively in love with said vampire. So she doesn't want just any blood, she wants his.

Grout's body. Since vampires seem to disappear when the die, why is there a skeleton in the bed of Grout's Mansion that is supposed to be Grout? Is Grout still "alive"?

  • Maybe there's a kind of Buffy-logic operating here, where older vampires may leave behind a skeleton or something. However, every important vampire that gets ashed that you need to pick something up from (the only other that immediately jumps to mind is the Nosferatu in the sewers) leaves a skeleton, so I'd put it down to gameplay-storyline segregation. And anyway if Grout is alive, he sure as hell isn't when Bach blows his house up.
    • In the table-top, the amount of time it takes for a vampire's body to turn to ash depends on how long they've been around for. Very old vampires turn to ash pretty much instantly, while fledglings take days. Grout wasn't that old, so it would take his body more than an hour to turn completely to ash (we can assume he was killed just shortly before you arrived).
      • Just wondering if Grout took a skeleton from somewhere, sprinkled ashes over it, and headed out of town with his "wife" (the thing in the Aquarium being a decoy).

So what was Ming Xiao's final form? Is it something Kuei-Jin normally turn into?

  • Nope but there are Kuei-Jin shape-shifting powers that can becustomised so she will have chosen that as a war form. Best not to think why.

The VTM world seems "Normal"

  • Perhaps its due to the limited depth the game could go into, but asides from drinking blood and needing to hide from the sun (and all the cool powers being a Vamp get you), the Vampire world is full of centuries old conspiracy, deadly plots, backstabbing, politics, two faced scheming (literally...), sick freaks and violence due to opposing beliefs and world views.
  • How is this supposed to be: The World of "Darkness"?
    • Just to state the obvious, the real world doesn't have vampires controlling it (that we know of). Besides, crime in the game seems a lot more widespread, as street fights start in the middle of the road, two gangs were trading something in a car park, and a weird, disease worshipping cult rose all at the same time in Downtown alone. The conversation with Wong Ho implies that vampires tend to bring crime with them as easy mooks, like Ming-Xiao.
      • Still sounds like a typical bad neighborhood actually.
        • In the real world, even in crappy neighbourhoods, the police usually have to annouce themselves before shooting and museam security guards definately do. The Police take a while longer to give up chasing violent murderers who attacked people in the street as well. Paramilitary groups can't operate out of Hollywood with impunity. And so on. The way White Wolf always meant it: it's our world with the bad bits turned up and the good bits turned down.
        • Ok, so its a bad neighborhood in Afghanistan then.
        • A bad neighborhood in Afghanistan in the United States. You don't want to know what WoD Afghanistan looks like.

It bugs me a little on a logistic note that you can actually fight the Rokea but not the Werewolf. Aren't those races about comparable in power level? And don't Werewolves take aggravated damage from flamethrowers just like the rest of us?

  • As cool as it is to fight it, ditto. Rokea are a bit weaker than garou in their warforms ( werewolves get +4 to strenght, Rokea only +3) but they still are tough cookies to fight none the less. Could be that a werewolf MIGHT be using a fear-gift to make your vampire unable to fight it.
    • Sadly, unless using silver bullets, high explosives or industrial grade machinery, most vamps probably can't kill a werewolf. As to why the flamethrower didn't work in game, chalk it up to either gameplay and story segregation or the fact that these werewolves emerged unharmed from a forest fire, so its likely they had some way to counter fire. My guess is some form of magic or a stolen canister of liquid fire retardant.
      • Actually, in WoD, killing A werewolf might be difficult, but doable for clever vampires. The point is that it's never A werewolf, but werewolves. With spiritual links to totems that give power, and their own magic powers. Oh yeah, and they can technically return from death's door.
    • I'm actually sort of curios now as to why the Vampires don't just firebomb suspected werewolf habitats. Nothing like a little deforestation and paving over the charred remains of your enemies and putting up a new shopping mall over their corpses to make a point.
      • It would work initially, but it would draw the ire of the entire Garou nation down on them. Which would be a breach of the Masquerade on MASSIVE proportions. And that's if the Garou didn't use their spiritual allies to make vampire lives miserable. I'm not saying the Kindred have no chance of winning, as they would have the mortal military and their own superpowered warriors on their side, but it would be ridiculously hard to cover up. Besides, vampires are immortal, whereas the werewolves are a dying race. A couple more generations and they'll be extinct anyway. Vampires can easily just sit in their cities and wait them out.
        • Except Vampires don't know that. But they do know that werewolves do live in cities as well, and that trying to firebomb a location that you don't even know for sure that they're there fore is unsubtle and draws unwanted questions to yourself. All vampires agree that the best course of action when dealing with werewolves is to just run and not engage them head-on. As for not using fire against them, Werewolves do have gifts to jam all technology and to control fire. A flamethrower would be useless against them.
          • Besides, Werewolves really do have much bigger problems than vampires infesting a city, and probably aren't making war on them wholesale. Sure, the ones in Griffith Park were patrolling, but the fact that they didn't attack you in Hollywood, and before the fire, never once made any trouble probably led the vampires to adopt a 'live and let live' policy. Werewolves for their part, probably didn't really care abut a few leeches in the city, and were probably much more focused on other problems. It's actually a bit of Fridge Brilliance why they didn't attack earlier despite everyone thinking an Antediluvian was about to rise. A Wyrm demon as powerful as that would have drawn the attention of every Werewolf in the state. However, as everyone who has played the game knows it's not.
  • Remember that you fight the Rokea with Yukie. From a gameplay perspective, she's not much -- she tends to charge in and get repeatedly shredded by claws, or clumsily fire crossbow bolts when she doesn't actually have a line of fire -- but from a story perspective, she's a pretty awesome ally. She's a trained hunter who's been stalking your target for who knows how long, has an enchanted katana, and has possible access to Strike Force Zero tech. You don't get any help with the Werewolf -- Nines is knocked out of action before your fight even starts.
  • Ghouls age with severe speed when they don't get their blood fix of the month. LaCroix dies in all endings. Mercurio will age soon if he doesn't get another domitor. And the most curious part is that he doesn't seem troubled by the fact that you are going to kill his domitor. He probably knows that he will die if you succeed. Why the hell didn't he stop you? And if he doesn’t die by the end of the month, who became his new domitor? Because a trained and useful ghoul is necessary, I doubt that the L.A Kindred won’t show some interest.
    • Like a Mobster (who might actually have been before Ghouldoom) Mercurio's probably figured that he's made himself useful enough to the Camarila that they would make sure he's taken care of as long as he does his job.
    • Is it ever directly stated that Mercurio is the prince's personal ghoul? Just because he takes orders from him and works for the Camarilla doesn't mean much. Since the Camarilla have a relatively strong hierarchy as far as sects go, it would not be surprising if his actual blood donator was some low-ranked Camarilla member who lets his ghoul work for the Cam or whatever. Considering that old, powerful and rich Ventrue tend to have a lot of servants and ghouls, it would probably get annoying on the long term to have to personally feed them regularly.
      • Good question! I believe it’s tacitly understood that he is LaCroix’s ghoul when he says: “Just so you understand, my loyalties are all but written in blood, so my opinion of the guy is moot.” I always got the impression that Mercurio was a fully-bounded ghoul when I heard that line. However, I can't tell you if it's actually said in the game, I haven't played it in a while, sadly.
  • Speaking of Ghoul's, does anyone have an idea of what would happen to one if its gets MORE than the bare minimum "blood fix"?
    • While Jack was nice enough to offer a bare bones tutorial on how to be a Vampire, I don't recall anyone giving the PC any tips about: Care And Feeding of Ghouls. What "mistakes" can we assume the ignorant PC will make?
      • There isn't mutch to ghouls. They can hold some more Vitae than a single blood point. In fact, they don't need a monthly fix - they "digest" a blood point per month, so if you feed them three blood points, they theoretically have enough Vitae for three months. But vampires just like to keep them on a short leash. Also, ghouls can utilise the Vitae for very limited Kindred-like uses. They can use it to heal themselves, or increase their physical attributes, maybe fuel a Deiscipline if they have any that requires blood. But overfeeding may be a problem - the more vampire blood a ghoul has, the more irritable and generally angry they would be (they can frenzy and more blood means it's a higher chance...also a shorter temper. It's not a vampire frenzy - they'll just trash around or beat somebody.) if a ghoul does get overfed, they near lose it. They act as if they are on the mother of all Speed - they become violent and nearly mindless with bloodlust and anger. Some vampires even arrange fights between such ghouls. Or just unleash one and watch the lulz (most probably the Sabbat).
    • If for some reason the PC was feeling touched (or just touched in the head) by Heather bringing "dinner" home and locking it in the bathroom for Master to feed, the PC returns the favor and drags another (staked) Vampire for her to drink from (perhaps even until final death). What happens to the Ghoul who diableried?
      • Nothing. Ghouls cannot diablerise anybody - only vampires can. What would happen is that the ghould would just have more Vitae to spare. And maybe overfed.
    • As human blood packs and even ""Elder Vitae" (which I assume means blood from an Elder Vampire) can be found and fed on, can the PC not also stock up his/her own blood to sell or give for Heather's "packed lunch" for long term missions (perhaps even buying her time to find a new Master just in case.)
      • Yep. That's not problem, really. Ghouls can drink any Vitae - be it from somebody's wrist or from a cup or from a blood bag. I'd just assume that the blood bag would taste nastier, as it's cold (still delicios as it's Vitae). Other than that, there is no real problem with stocking up your ghoul with emergency supplies. Only the issue that you're not holding the leash close enough any more.
  • Forgive my ignorance in matter, but: Therese originally developed Jeanette to cope with the abuse of her father (so, She's the original and only one while Jeanette is her split personality?) but then she kills her father after seeing him sleeping with Jeanette. Weren't they the same person!? Again sorry but I'm not very good with this kind of things...
    • My understanding of it is that when Therese was human, she did have a real twin sister Jeanette, but then developed a second personality based on Jeanette after becoming a vampire.
    • I thought that meant, Therese 'awakened' while the father was molesting 'Jeanette' and killed him then.
  • Is Yukie's arm supposed to be cybernetic, or is she just wearing an arm guard? The game itself doesn't address this for some reason, and I've heard people say both. I immediately assumed it was cybernetic and was a Demon Hunter X/Strike Force Zero reference, but I know people who think it's an arm guard.

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