Homestuck/WMG/Kids

• Main
• Characters
  • Agents and Monarchs
  • Alpha Agents and Monarchs
  • Alpha Other
  • Exiles
  • Guardians
  • Guardians and Lusii
  • Kids
  • Miscellaneous
  • Other Characters
  • Post Scratch Kids
  • Pre Scratch Trolls
  • Sprites
  • The Felt
  • The Felt Two
  • Trolls Five
  • Trolls Four
  • Trolls One
  • Trolls Three
  • Trolls Two
  • Unknown Trolls
• Laconic
• Trivia
• YMMV
• Fridge
• Fanfic Recs
• Haiku
• Headscratchers
  • Resolved
• Memes
• Quotes
• WMG
  • Agents and Monarchs
  • Alpha
  • Alpha Trolls
  • Conclusions Alpha
  • Confirmed
  • Exiles
  • Guardians
  • Jokes
  • Jossed
  • Jossed Felt
  • Jossed Three
  • Jossed Trolls
  • Jossed Two
  • Kids
  • Other
  • Sprites
  • The Felt
  • The Midnight Crew
  • Trolls
  • Unified
• Crowners
  • Awesome
  • Funny
  • Heartwarming
  • Nightmare Fuel
  • Tear Jerker
• Wikipedia
• All Subpages
  • Awesome Music
  • Fan Music
  • Music
  • Shout-Out
  • Timeline
  • Tropes A-C
  • Tropes D-F
  • Tropes G-I
  • Tropes J-L
  • Tropes M-O
  • Tropes P-R
  • Tropes S-U
  • Tropes V-Z
• Create New

The four kids represent four areas of knowledge; Nature, Technology, Magic and the Supernatural.

• John leans toward Supernatural.
• Rose leans toward Magic.
• Dave leans toward Technology.
• Jade leans toward Nature.
  • Note that each of them has knowledge of another field except Dave who is exclusively technological.
  • This can be slightly backed up by their musical instruments; John and Rose play classical instruments while Dave and Jade play relatively newer instruments.

One of the kids will be Killed Off for Real in the ending chapters of Homestuck.

The epilogue themes for the more recent albums (namely, Alternia and Homestuck Vol. 5) have some pretty sad undertones within them, indicating that while the kids may have won the battle, it came with a terrible cost.

• This could be possible, given the idea that 4 = 1 + 3, so the kids could really be divided in a 3:1 ratio (albeit unevenly in terms of aspects)---thus, three survivors to one deceased. Then again, they could all survive, but not without some trauma experienced from beating the game, since everyone has to survive to win altogether.
  • Possibly 413 vs. 314, ie, one of the kids doesn't live to 14.
    • That particular idea at least is Jossed: the four kids will be 15-16 by the time they enter the Alpha Session. The validity of the whole idea has yet to be seen.

John's Denizen, Typheus, wields a broken sword with wind powers

Since Dave's Denizen, Hephaestus, had a time-stopping hammer (John's Abstratus with Dave's power), Typheus will have the reverse. Similarly, Cetus and Echidna will have a Light Gun and Space Needles.

• • It's been revealed that the most powerful needleKind weapon are the Quills of Echidna, making this theory somewhat more likely.
  • However given the current situation, it's ambiguous if he'll be shown.
    • And the question does arise of how exactly he manages to use it period, having no hands.
    • What makes you so sure he doesn't have hands? The kids aren't shown with arms half the time. Hephaestus isn't shown with arms on Dave's browser, but he wields the hammer. The worm that looks like John's browser was revealed to be one of his minions, not actually him, and Vriska's reaction to his appearance suggests something more dreadful.

John is an allegory for Jesus.

See the page where John ascends to the God Tier: JOHN. RISE UP. The music playing there is called 'Savior of the Waking World', which obviously refers to John. He dies on his planet and is resurrected as the Savior in Heaven. Moreover, his death was caused by the betrayal of one of the twelve trolls, who represent the apostles. Vriska is therefore Judas Iscariot: note how 'Isca' sounds like 'Vriska' and 'Scariot' sounds like 'Serket.' There are four kids, representing the four Gospels. Being the Son of God, John's aspect as the Heir is suddenly explained: he's the heir to the Kingdom of Heaven. John is also referred to as 'son' by his father. Whether this means that Dad is God is up for debate. The identity of the Holy Spirit is also unclear, but it's probably Wayward Vagabond. Because obviously Jesus flies around Heaven with the Holy Spirit in a car shortly after his Ascension.

• Probably Jossed because John isn't the only one to God Tier revive, and also God gets killed. Not to mention Dad isn't actually John's father. Also John really isn't that overly powerful compared to Jack.
• John 4:13

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Savior of the world. Savior of the (Waking) world.

• • This. Must. Be. Canon.
    • Andrew's an atheist. It's a coincidence, nothing more. However, Radiation named the song mostly because of the passage and he thought it sounded cool.
      • • Karkat's ancestor is actually confirmed to be a Jesus figure.
    • Whether one is an atheist or not, doesn't necessarily mean the one wouldn't want to check things out and put it into the story for the heck of it. Did he actually say those exact words though? Look at the Sburb album. Religious references all around. At the very least he put the okay on the titles.
    • Andrew doesn't really do much for the albums beyond suggest ideas and veto them, as well as organize them. Andrew has said via Formspring in a roundabout manner that he is an atheist but that it's unimportant. The Sburb album is non-canonical at any rate, and it's questionable how relevant it can be considered when the album art is incorrect . What is certain is that God Tiers are probably to some extent referencing Jesus, but all of the other stuff above like Vriska being Judas and etc is pretty much not there.
• Following along with this allegorical interpretation, if anyone fills the role of Gog to John's Jegus, it's either Karkat (led the creation of John's universe), Grandpa Harley (genetic father; I'd totally buy that metaphor)... or John himself.
  • Once again John isn't a great Jesus metaphor considering he's not the only god tiered player, unless Aradia, Vriska, and Fedorafreak are also Jesus.
• It could actually not be that for John 4:13. Someone else said, John 4:13 is Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again," 1 John 4:13 is By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
• This does a good job of explaining why there are so many biblical references in the story; also in light of the Sufferer, John is nowhere near Jesus.
• Personally I feel like Homestuck shares some themes with The Bible, like a lot of epics, not so much because is an allegory for Christianity but simply because they're pretty fundamental, interesting themes. There are just some things, like the ideas of redemption and sacrifice, that are always going to fascinate humans. So those ideas get dealt with in a lot of stories, it doesn't necessarily make it a direct religious allusion.

The Kids survive the scratch.

Act 6 opens with a repeat of Act 1, up to the bit where it pans around and Homestuck comes up (ie, the second flash), whereupon Beta!John looks up and sees God Tiered Alpha!John chilling in the air.

• Jossed, the Kids won't go to Earth. A similar scene could play out, but only in the Medium, or involving characters that aren't the kids we're familiar with.
• Now plausible, given John and Jade's means of escape.
  • We'll just have to see if this plays out in some fashion in the Medium.

Dave will inherit Lil'Cal.

The Kids will meet the Trolls, Dave will claim the repaired Cal and master the Puppetkind abstractus in honor of his Bro.

• Ironically.
  • Jossed? Alpha Bro has him at the moment.
    • We don't know if that's the same Cal, though. It could be a different Cal for all we know.

Dave actually is gay.

No real evidence, but other than his personality (and remember that he was originally a hipster), is there any real evidence he isn't, either? When Bro talked about his "gay butt," he wasn't just being insulting, and when he said he "loved" John, he did mean it in that way.

• More then likely its basically platonic love such as found between friends. Extrapolating on his loved comment like this is as logical as suggesting Dave loved Rose given how much he flipped out when Rose let slip she would sacrifice herself, (right before mentioning it was her dream self she'd sacrifice) in order to destroy the green sun. There has been overall very little interaction between John and Dave in comparison to other characters to suggest romantic possibilities. Its far more likely that Dave relies alot on his friend for emotional support (if it turns out Bro has been abusive to him all his life) rather than romantic interest.
  • He's also made vaguely romantic overtones to Jade. There's a big difference between being bros and being gay.
• http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005778. That is all.
  • Given how Rose and Dave routinely trade pithy jibes about eachother's personal lives in these Message Logs, this is best taken with a grain of salt.
• Hints into Dave's fears fill Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff, which makes sense because the things people tend to find the funniest are the ones that make them uncomfortable. Amongst the things that show up a lot are homophobic language and things that can be seen as gay being followed by comments of how bad they are. From this we can at least conclude he's afraid that he might be gay.

Jade will be the one to kill Bec Noir

• Due to Jack inheriting Bec's love for Jade, when it comes down to it, he won't be able to kill her. If the Green Sun is destroyed, then he won't be able to teleport away. Jade, finally accepting that she has to DO something, will try and bring out Bec's personality - the trusting, caring good dog that loves his owner - and kill him.
  • Hinted at by Andrew but probably unlikely; Jade has no way of getting to the Troll's session that we know of and Noir survives long enough to get there.
  • As of [S] Cascade, not out of the realm of possibility.

Meta Beta John is from a doomed timeline.

Which is exactly why his timeline ends at the part where he gets his arms out of the magic chest. He died due to someone (or some others') meteor(s) shortly after.

Rose's message to John

Rose wanted Dave to give a message to John before heading off on what she assumed would be a suicide mission - but she got interrupted by the Draconian Dignitary before she could say it. Oh boy are there a bunch of different possibilities for this. A simple "Thanks" or "Sorry"? An Interrupted Declaration of Love (or maybe, since making Dave feel uncomfortable is a hobby of Rose's anyway, a kiss)? Maybe an subversion, aversion or inversion of it (e.g. "I am not a heterosexual" to set up the Rose / Kanaya shippers instead of the John / Rose ones)?

Certainly whatever it was, Rose ended up not dying, and in fact went godtier. She can give the message to John herself. If she still wants to.

The Kids are actually from the Alpha Universe

Remember when Scratch said Sburb players can be spawned outside of their own session? That's what's happening. So the ecto-kids John created went to the Alpha universe, and the ecto kids they will presumably create will go back to the Beta universe. If we assume that the kid/guardian relationship are totally reversed, then John, Rose, Dave and Jade could very well be paradox clones of their own alternate universe selves, and their guardians are their own ectobiological children. Which just makes things even weirder. Skaia knows how this affects the bunny.

• Which means that the meteors from the Beta!Reckoning went to Alpha!Earth and vice versa?
• Jossed. The meteors from the Beta!Reckoning went to both Earths (it's Homestuck, what do you expect?). There won't be an Alpha!Reckoning.

John will grow a mustache.

Between Grandpa Harley and Poppop Crocker, he's clearly genetically predisposed to it.

• Considering Poppop Crocker is him, this is most likely confirmed. Unless you mean within the story...

During the three-year journey, John will acquire his Fraymotifs.

John never really got the chance to buy them before, but now he has lots of time and access to his planet. Since Jade appears to know about them, she can explain them to him (and also, us). We don't know if Dave ever paid him back, but now that he's God Tier, he may not even need Boondollars any more.

At some important point, Dave will time-freeze Noir the way Aradia did.

Mostly because it makes sense for him to be able to do so, and it would provide an opportunity for a good one-liner or SBaHJ reference.

• This is looking more doubtful now that we know more about how class affects everyone.

Dave will kill Lord English.

Based solely on the fact that his next god tier title is Pimpslayer.

John has, or will acquire, the power to bring people back from the dead.

As the Heir of Breath, John seems to be the odd one out of the God-tiered kids. Everyone else gets fancy stuff like Time and Space- does John really just get power over wind? John will actually turn out to be able to "give people breath", or bring them back to life. This will be incredibly dramatic when it happens.

• Seems like that might step on the toes of the Maid of Life's area of influence.
• At any rate, I'm not sure why people are so down on John's powers. Being a storm god is pretty dang cool.

The kids will not be able to breed the Genesis Frog due to the Scratch.

Jade required a very specific white frog back on Earth to finish breeding Bilious Slick, right? So she finishes creating a Genesis Tadpole using the genetic sequences of the white frog, but Courtyard Droll's intervention sent the tadpole careening into the Forge. Normally I'd think "That's fine, she can just make another," but then I remember that Beta Earth is completely destroyed, so Jade probably can't go back and retrieve the genetic sequences of the white frog. There's no indication that a white frog might even exist in the Alpha universe given that everything else is so screwed up, much less that anyone- even Echidna, as she hasn't entered the Alpha universe yet- even knows where to look for it.

• Given that Roxy and Jake are able to appearify and sendificate objects between the universes, it might be possible to reconnect with the Beta session through them.
  • Or Dave's time weirdness can help reverse the fall. Then again we also don't even know if the tadpole can survive it and the importance of the Forge. It's genuinely possible that is supposed to happen.

Dave was an antisocial shut-in before Sburb

All the kids at his school hated him, partly because of his hipster antics, partly because they knew about Bro's smuppet empire. John, Rose and Jade were his only friends.

• By extension, the other three kids were not particularly well-liked either; Jade was isolated, John was laughed at, and Rose was either homeschooled or inched slowly away from. Literally their entire social lives consisted of the Internet. Dave just had the worst of it.
  • it's hard to thank you enough for your friendship over the years. heck, if it weren't for you i wouldn't even have met rose and dave, so that is like, THREE TIMES the friendship! that is almost like, TOO MUCH FRIENDSHIP. Something about that does seem to suggest John didn't exactly have much in the way of friendship offline.
• It's even possible this is a critical part of the game, that players have little contact with non-players. Certainly Scratch's changes to Alternia seem to have included isolating the juvenile trolls from the adults, their ancestors, and each other.

Dave's SORD is a Lethal Joke Weapon - and the only thing that can kill Lord English.

Think about it: Lords (and ladies) are generally thought of as "people of quality". SORD, meanwhile, is incredibly shitty - and it's that property which will spell Lord English's doom.

John will make a Heroic Sacrifice.

Karkat was worried about him becoming so confident about his ability to not die that he'd go off and do something heroic that would get him killed, and A 6 I 2 proved he's certainly still willing to do so if the opportunity arises.

• Doc Scratch seemingly supports this on this page. Since it was posted more than four months after Tavros' death, it's unlikely to be a case of Exact Words in relation to "Heroes of Breath".

The Striders and, by extension, Rose Lalonde are related to Sparda.

think about it, the striders are renowned for being really badass, Dante is really badass. The odd eye colours that the Striders have could hint to them not being entirely human. Rose has a "Devil Form" which has been seen and the Striders abilities are way above those of normal humans. The only thing separating Dave's Bro from Dante is that when Bro gets impaled through the chest by Bec Noir, he doesn't come back I mean come on, they even have the same hair colour!

Jade will die for good in a Heroic Sacrifice

Homestuck, at least to this troper, seems like it will have a Bittersweet Ending. one way this could happen is if one of the beta kids, the first protagonists we really got to know well, died. Of course, this could be any of the four kids, right? Wrong. According to Doc Scratch, the alpha timeline would not allow the story to end with our human hero of Breath or for our Knight(s) and Seer(s) to stay cadavers. This only leaves one kid; Jade.

• Well, there are the new kids, from the alpha universe. But Jade still seems most likely, due to her relation with Bec Noir. More than likely, she'd have to kill him, and while doing so, something would go wrong.

---

> Go Back
> Return to main page