View source for Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids

{{trope}}{{Needs Image}}
{{quote|''"I'm thirty. I'm five years too old to lie to myself and call it honor."''|'''Nick Carraway''', ''[[The Great Gatsby]]''}}

{{quote|''"Innocence is chrysalis, a phase designed to end. Only when we are free from it do we know ourselves. My survival, my joy, are all that matter. I indulge. Nothing else exists."''|'''Eleanor Lamb''', ''[[BioShock (series)]] 2''}}

When a character (primarily in dramas) is asked to go beyond their job and help with "a cause", the character sometimes refuses, and afterwards the other person asks, "What's happened to you?" or "Since when did you stop caring?" the answer sometimes comes down to the character saying, "[[Growing Up Sucks|I grew up]]," implying that the character "grew" from a [[Wide-Eyed Idealist]] to an [[The Cynic|embittered pessimist]]. It's also often used by the [[Anti-Hero]] or [[Nietzsche Wannabe]] to sneer at the idealistic methods and beliefs of the [[Ideal Hero]] and his ilk; such [[Dumb Is Good|naive]] and [[Children Are Innocent|childish]] wishful thinking has no place in the grown-up, random, [[Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism|cynical]] world that the Anti Hero lives in. Alternatively, a [[Retired Badass]] might have genuinely gotten too old or set in retirement to do what's being asked of them.

Considering that many shows and media that are on the idealistic end of the [[Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism]] or are just plain [[Lighter and Softer]] are primarily targeted towards children and teenagers, while cynical media are often targeted to adults or attract controversy from [[Moral Guardians]], there can often be a tendency, especially among more cynical people, to associate idealism with childish or naive thinking, something to outgrow, rather than an actual, legitimate, motivating philosophy that adults can also make use of.

Sometimes the result of the character crossing the [[Despair Event Horizon]]. The [[Sour Supporter]] often expresses it, especially in the face of [[Least Is First]]. May be accompanied by a warning that [[Hope Is Scary]]. Subtrope of [[Jade-Colored Glasses]]. See also [[Silly Rabbit, Romance Is for Kids]]. Could also overlap with [[Obstructive Bureaucrat]], and [[Noble Bigot with a Badge]].

Expect this phrase to be uttered in [[World Half Empty]] settings ''and'' [[Real Life]].

Contrast [[Good Is Old-Fashioned]], where idealism is regarded as only for the children's grandparents. The intent is much the same: To imply that the good/idealistic person is unfamiliar with the here and now. The character may say that what they are dealing with is [[Above Good and Evil]], and the idealistic character should not drag in such childish morality.

It's not all one-way, however; the idealist [[Shut UP, Hannibal|may fire a few shots back in return]]. The cynic may be dismissed as a 'sell-out' who gave up on doing the right thing for their own selfish gain. For instance certain characters just aren't willing to jeopardize their careers, and livelihoods just to change the status quo (Cynically this could be [[Truth in Television]] depending on how cynical, or "''realist''" one is). Or maybe he'll even be called a 'coward' and a weakling who gave up the good fight because he found it too hard and instead resigns oneself in [[wangst]]ing about bad things. For those kinds of call-outs, see [[Silly Rabbit, Cynicism Is for Losers]]. Of course, a true cynic ''would'' also be cynical about their cynicism.

Compare and contrast [[Knight in Sour Armor]], who still hold ideals, just not as idealists. A converted holder of '''Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids''' views may turn into a [[Knight in Sour Armour]], keeping to the appearance of cynicism while reluctantly pursuing idealistic goals.

A direct antithesis of [[Good Is Not Dumb]].
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{{examples}}
==  Anime and Manga ==
* Partially due to his [[Heroic BSOD]] in Season 3, Judai in ''[[Yu-Gi-Oh! GX]]'' developed a [["Stop Having Fun!" Guys]] mentality towards Duel Monsters during his journey into adulthood between Seasons 3 and 4, effectively losing the optimism that he had for two and a half seasons.
** Oddly enough, before that he was big on 'It's a game, have fun!' Pretty big turn around.
**  {{spoiler|In the final episode Judai duels Yugi and regains his passion for dueling.}}
***  {{spoiler|Technically, he was supposed to have regained it during the pair duel that season, but then the writers said "screw it" and had him re-learn that exact same lesson for the finale.}}
* Subverted in ''[[Rurouni Kenshin]]''. When the villains try to [[Break the Cutie]] Kaoru by saying that martial arts are for killing, the titular protagonist agrees.. but also says that he prefers the idealism over the truth.
* Used in ''[[Sayonara, Zetsubou-sensei]]'' the first time Itoshiki Nozomu teaches the class.
** To expand on it, Nozomu tells his class to write down their "Despairs for the future", essentially the students writing down their "Hopes for the future", what they are aiming at becoming, which Nozomu shoots down by saying "It's hopeless", and then giving them a [[Hannibal Lecture]] on their unrealistic goals... And then [[The Pollyanna|Fuura Kafuka]] shoots HIM down simply by stating that no matter how unrealistic your goal is, as long as you do your best to achieve it "the possibility exists" that you'll succeed.<ref>Trivial note: It's later revealed that Kafuka's "Hopes/Despairs for the future" was to become "God, A Time Traveler, A Pororocian".</ref>
* In the ''[[Fullmetal Alchemist]]'' manga both Miles and another Briggs soldier mention this, as when they were Ed's age they thought they could get through life [[Technical Pacifist|without killing anyone either]].
* The [[Token Loli]] in ''[[Heat Guy J]]'' gets in [[Contemplate Our Navels|an argument]] with a [[Defective Detective]], when he tells her that money isn't everything. In her world, where she and [[Bottle Fairy|her mother]] barely have what they need to survive, money ''is'' everything, and she has become jaded. She tells him that believing in ideals like "money can't bring happiness" is all a fantasy.
* ''[[Monster (manga)|Monster]]'': Johan, the series's resident [[Complete Monster]] seems to be trying to teach this to Tenma, and toward the end says "The only thing humans are equal in... is death."
* This trope is inverted in ''[[Black Lagoon]]'' when [[Cool Old Guy|Takenaka]], a [[Terrorists Without a Cause|Terrorist Without A Cause]], attempts to interrogate [[The Hero|Rock]] into giving up some info by convincing him that they're [[Not So Different]]. Rock refuses, and asks Takenaka why he keeps fighting for a cause he's already lost. Takenaka explains that he's long since lost any ideals about being able to do anything constructive with his actions, but "keeps preaching" because it's the only thing he finds meaning in doing.
* Used in ''[[Tiger and Bunny]]'' to highlight the duality between Kotetsu and his partner Barnaby. Barnaby, a [[Punch Clock Hero]] who views superheroics as "just another job", finds Kotetsu's still-intact idealism and aspirations towards being [[The Cape (trope)]] to be childish and naive. The twist is that Kotetsu is at least ten years older than Barnaby, and seems to be holding on to the virtues of "the good old days" in an era where superheroes have become marketing mascots.
** As the series progresses and he starts to rub off on Barnaby, the focus of the trope shifts from the two of them to Kotetsu and [[Nineties Anti-Hero|Lunatic]], a [[Vigilante Man]] whose sense of justice involves [[Kill It with Fire|burning criminals alive]].
*** In his case, it turns out his mindset is based on  {{spoiler|1=the knowledge of what the Stern Bild idea of 'justice' actually entails. For much of the series the HeroTV heroes are ignorant of the the massive corruption and violence that lies behind the glitzy theatrics, giving another reason (if one were needed) why the others don't see where Lunatic's coming from. [[Sequel Hook|Hopefully]] time will tell what the reactions of them and NEXTs in general will be to Maverick's setup being uncovered.}}
* In ''[[One Piece]]'', when the Sun Pirates helps a young human girl (whom they had grown to cherish) return to her village, Arlong is quick to ruin their mood by stating that Koala will grow up to hate fishmen like any other human.


== Comic Books ==
* In [[DC Comics]], Superman once battled the Elite (a pastiche of [[The Authority]]) a pack of super-[[Anti-Hero|anti-heroes]] who routinely killed. It was the Elite's point-of-view that Superman's boy-scout kid-gloves morality was a weakness, and that defeating evil required being just as bad. During their final face-off, Superman appeared to be going all-out, slaughtering his way through the Elite on live TV. But it was a fake-out - he was merely knocking them out in creative ways, trying to illustrate how terrifying superpowered killers can be. Manchester Black, the leader of the Elite, maintained that Superman's idealism was nothing but a facade until his dying day. (When Black realized that Superman ''honestly and sincerely believed and lived up to his ideals'', it was more than Black could take and committed suicide.)
** In fact, the very idea of idealism apparently screwed Black up so much that he eventually ''came back'' and tried to destroy the entire world to ultimately prove his point, in a large-scale prequel to the Joker's attempted demonstrations in ''The Dark Knight''. Except with more [[Humans Are the Real Monsters]] and [[You Suck]] thrown in. In the DC Universe, enough cynicism apparently leads to evil on an epic scale.
* In one of Marvel Comic's ''[[Thunderbolts]]'' mini-series, Baron Zemo accidentally goes back in time and encounters many of his ancestors via time-jumps, one of whom is in young love with a lady that history says he's not destined to marry. Zemo tells them to their faces that they can dream because they are young, and that the harshness of reality will eventually make them adults.
** Of course he was right all along. He knew he would marry another after all.
* [https://web.archive.org/web/20130603223002/http://www.indyplanet.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=3429 Gemini Storm's] Elizabeth Rose is very negative, to the point of berating her male companion when he yells at her for killing one of the monsters trying to kill them both.
* Speedball's evolution into Penance. This trope plus a dump truck full of [[Wangst]]. He had [[Amnesia (fangame)|Amnesia]] at the time. He knew that he used to be a hero and that he'd done something bad, he just didn't know who or what.
* The Comedian's speech at the "Crime Busters" meeting in ''[[Watchmen]]''.


== Film ==
* The entire movie ''[[Training Day]]'' is about this trope.
* Jackie, the ex-wife of Detective Mercer from the film ''The Brave One''. Detective Mercer asks Jackie for help and she replies, "''I can't help. Besides, I don't do 'pro bono.''" When Mercer asks why, she responds, "''I grew up.''"
* The hero of ''[[Dragonheart]]'' starts off as this, a cold hearted mercenary who was soured by trying to instruct a king in the old code, the code of honour of the kingdom, who grew up heartless anyway. He later becomes something of a [[Knight in Sour Armour]].
* In the Lou Diamond Phillips film ''Extreme Justice'', a lot of the [[Powers That Be]] appear to be this way when dealing with [[Knight Templar]] cops. Mostly due to the fact they think the ends justify the means, and the lower level power's that be are largely useless due to being in fear of losing their jobs and pensions. And Lou Diamond Phillips' character is mostly seen as naive by his co-workers because he's trying to expose the corruption that people seem to passively aggressively support.
* ''[[Predator]]''. [[Arnold Schwarzenegger|Dutch]] finds his special forces team has been duped by CIA agent Dillon.
{{quote|'''Dutch:''' What happened to you, Dillon? You used to be someone I could trust.
'''Dillon:''' I woke up. Why don't you? You're an asset. An expendable asset. And I used you to get the job done. }}
* The Mark Wahlberg film ''[[Shooter]]'' turns into this trope towards the end of the film as the protagonist tries to bring down a corrupt senator, a colonel, and a group of [[Private Military Contractors]]. {{spoiler|The film even includes the "This is the "[[Real Life|real world]]" type of speech from the [[Lawful Neutral|Attorney General]] towards Bob Lee Swagger.}} Of course, his [[Exact Words]] are...
{{quote|{{spoiler|"For the record, I don't like how this turned out any more then you do. But this is the world we live in. And justice does not always prevail. It's not the wild west where you can clean up the streets with a gun. Even though sometimes it's exactly what is needed... Bob Lee Swagger, ''you're free to go.''"}}}}
** So Swagger {{spoiler|''goes'' straight to the senator's cabin and [[Why Don't You Just Shoot Him?|shoots all of them.]]}}
* In a [[Deleted Scene]] from the ''[[Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film()|Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire]]'', Moody {{spoiler|(actually Crouch Jr.)}} tells Harry after the Second Task that "if you want to play the hero, I can find you plenty of playmates among the first years."
* ''[[Watchmen (film)|Watchmen]]'' (also in the comic), {{spoiler|Ozymandias}} tells Nite Owl to grow up and adapt, as the new world has no place for [[The Cape (trope)|silly old-fashioned heroics]].
* This is Somerset's attitude towards Mills in ''[[Se7en]]''. Somerset's years as a cop have left him disillusioned, jaded, and borderline misanthropic. He scoffs at the younger man's more optimistic outlook on life, at one point even chastising him by saying "You can't be this naive!"
* ''[[Star Wars]]'' has this late on; [[The Cynic|Han]] gets Luke to his destination (as per their deal), goes on a massive detour to save a princess ''and'' adds the Empire to the list of people who want him dead, only to be met with criticism from [[Wide-Eyed Idealist|the naive teenager who owes him]] for wanting to leave after earning his reward. Averted when the [[Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism]] tipples ever so slightly towards idealism when [[The Power of Friendship]] means that the [[The Good Guys Always Win|good guys win]].
** Lampshaded in [[Family Guy|Blue Harvest:]]
{{quote|'''Luke''': So, you got your reward and you're leaving? Is that it?
'''Han''': Well, when you say it that way, I sound like a douche. But yeah, that's what I'm doing. }}
* In ''[[The Dark Knight]]'', the entire film is essentially a battle of ideologies between [[Batman]] and [[The Joker]], with the Joker trying to prove to Batman that deep down, [[Humans Are the Real Monsters|everyone is just as]] [[Complete Monster|evil as he is.]] {{spoiler|[[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming|He's proven wrong.]]}}


== Literature ==
* In ''[[World War Z]]'', this is the viewpoint of many [[Jerkass|Jerk Asses]] in such interviews as the one with former White House chief of staff Grover Carlson. Asked about the response of the White House to reports of the walking dead, Carlson claims it was above and beyond, and brags that Phalanx, a supposed anti-zombie drug, was pushed through the Food and Drug Administration. When the Narrator points out that Phalanx didn't work, Carlson explodes and launches into a tirade that what mattered was that a panic had been avoided, ultimately telling the interviewer to "grow up":
{{quote|"Can you imagine the damage it would have done to the administration's political capital? We're talking about an election year, and a damn hard, uphill fight. ... Oh, c'mon. Can you ever 'solve' poverty? Can you ever 'solve' crime? Can you ever 'solve' disease, unemployment, war, or any other societal herpes? Hell no. All you can ever hope for is to make them manageable enough to allow people to get on with their lives. That's not cynicism, that's maturity."}}
** Given that this guy was personally responsible for a number of the dumbass decisions that led the world to ruin, he should feel lucky that his punishment is simply collecting manure for a biodiesel plant. Of course, ''his'' viewpoint is that his decisions kept society going long enough for the [[Shoot the Dog|Redekker Plan]] to be enacted, therefore making him one of the world's unsung saviors. The reader is [[Shrug of God|left hanging as to this.]]
* Theo Bell has this exchange with {{spoiler|his old friend Angus}} in a ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' spinoff novel, {{spoiler|not long after finding out Angus was the one who'd been repeatedly trying to kill him}}.
* The Decembrist uprising of 1825 is described in such terms for all of Russian high society in ''[[The Death of the Vazir Mukhtar]]''; while "the people of the [eighteen] twenties" are generally idealistic if superfluous, impractical and hypocritical, the people who replace them at the forefront of high society after the failure of the Decembrist uprising are more pragmatic, materialistic and outwardly conformist (notably, both sides can be pretty cynical or the opposite regardless of this divide, just in different ways). And then there is the main character, Aleksandr Griboyedov, who is stuck awkwardly between the two groups and is very cynical and contemptuous towards both.
* ''Animorphs.'' Jake's brother Tom (who is actually controlled by an alien Yeerk slug) sums the trope up when talking about morality in war:
{{quote|"Honor and courage aren't what matters, not in real war. What matters is whether you win. After you win, then you start talking about honor and courage. When you're in battle, you do what you have to do. Honor and courage and all that? Those are the words you say after you've killed all your enemies."}}
* In James Stoddard's ''The High House'', Murmur rebukes Duskin for wanting to join in the defense of the house; his father would have, but that was idealism of youth, which he never outgrew.
* ''[[A Song of Ice and Fire]]'' seems to run on this trope.
* In [[Gene Stratton Porter]]'s ''Michael O'Halloran'', when Douglas rejects an offical position, he gets this.
{{quote|''It is painful to a man of experience to see you young fellows of such great promise come up and 'kick' yourself half to death 'against the pricks' of established business, parties, and customs, but half of you do it. In the end all of you come limping in, poor, disheartened, defeated, and then swing to the other extreme, by being so willing for a change you'll take almost anything, and so the dirty jobs naturally fall to you.''}}


==  Live Action TV ==
* When Sasha Monroe from ''[[Third Watch]]'' points out Tyrone Davis Jr's shady police tactics and how it contributes to innocent black men going to jail, he put his hand up to her face and says "Don't preach to me."
** Interestingly enough, Ty refused to believe his father was corrupt, yet he's going down [[Generation Xerox|the same slippery slope]].
* Tess Mercer from ''[[Smallville]]'' gives Oliver Queen the whole "I grew up" line.
** Although this can be described as [[Silly Rabbit, Romance Is for Kids]].
** A bit of both; she also uses it as an explanation of how she went from [[Granola Girl|an environmentally crusading marine biologist]] to [[Corrupt Corporate Executive|the head of Luthorcorp]].
* Amy Pond in the new series of ''[[Doctor Who]]'' met the Doctor when she was a kid and wanted to travel with him but circumstances delayed him until she'd grown up, where she justifies her (not entirely unjustified) skepticism of him and his claims with this trope. Being the Doctor, however, he has the perfect comeback:
{{quote|'''Amy''': I grew up.
'''The Doctor''': ''(confidently)'' Don't worry. I'll soon fix that. }}
* Ned in ''[[Pushing Daisies]]'' gives "I grew up" as the answer to why he no longer likes Halloween. He's lying, though.
* Miss Parker from ''[[The Pretender]]'', complete with the obligatory "What happened to you?" "I grew up" conversation in the first episode.
* ''[[Law and Order]]'' loves to rub the viewers' face into the political version of this trope. Then there's [[Base Breaker|Abbie Carmichael]] who is this trope personified.
* When [[Star Trek: Enterprise|Captain Archer]] returned to Earth after the events of [[Story Arc|Season]] [[My God, What Have I Done?|3]], where he carried a team of [[Space Marines]], resorted to [[Space Pirates|piracy]], [[War Is Hell|killed unarmed aliens manning a listening post]], lost several crew members, and [[Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking|went back in time]], he has taken this attitude. The other members of Earth's Starfleet, who are bursting with Roddenberrian enthusiasm for space travel, are deeply concerned as he talks about the importance of better arming ships and warfighting over exploring. They are convinced he's simply cynical, but he can't help but think that being more cynical may have saved some of his crew.
** Though this can seem less idealistic and more stupid on the part of Starfleet. After all, they just stopped an alien race from  {{spoiler|''blowing up the planet''}}, and another one from  {{spoiler|conquering it in the past}}, and they have met a lot of species that proved to be rather hostile. I think that this proves that not all aliens are goody-goody peace, freedom and apple pie loving explorers, and that there are more that enough dangers that they need to be able to defend themselves from, and to defend Earth from, since they are the only ones with the capability to do so (unless you want to [[Too Dumb to Live|rely on the Vulcans]].)
* [[Game of Thrones]] hands down.


== Music ==
* Music example, slightly inverted: In his song "My Back Pages", [[Bob Dylan]] describes his angry-young-man cynicism of a few years earlier, and its gradual evolution into pragmatism, with the memorable (and confusing) chorus "I was so much older then / I'm younger than that now."
* Similarly, [[Billy Joel]] in "Angry Young Man":
{{quote|I believe I've passed the age
Of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving
Was a noble fight... }}
* Happened with pseudo-anarchist folk/punk band Levellers. Their early albums were all 'times are tough but if we work together we can get past Thatcher and have a time of peace and joy and happiness'. Now, twenty or so years later their songs seem to mostly be about how the world sucks and we're all screwed.
* [[Green Day]] has at least two songs directly dealing with or referencing this, ''Emenius Sleepus'' and ''The Grouch''. The former is about a friend who underwent the process, the latter, the narrator.
* The Jam in "Burning Sky", though that was meant to be from the viewpoint of a character who'd embraced the capitalist system.
* Both played straight and subverted with Avril Lavigne. Her first album, made when she was just a teenager, was a poppy, punky teen fest, and ''Sk8er Boi'' became a hit song among preteens. Two years later and she abandoned the "immaturity" for wagnst and cynicism. Three years after that, and she's a teenager again! But now, she's put out a soft rock/acoustic album, making this a [[Zig Zagged Trope]].
* In I Fight Dragon's 'No One Likes Superman Anymore':
{{quote|Cuz no one wants to know the man who stands for things we outgrow
He’s too noble and too blind
We’re all older now and we don’t need someone to care about
The innocence we left behind… }}
* [[Supertramp]]'s "Dreamer".

==  Theatre ==
* From ''[[Rent]]'': "What happened to Benny? What happened to his heart, and the ideals he once pursued?"
* Jean Anouilh's version of ''[[Antigone]]'' is a rare example of this being taken seriously as opposed to being scoffed at or framed as rationalization. The play is concerned with Antigone's willingness to die as a punishment for trying to ensure that one of her brothers gets a proper burial, which itself is a manifestation of her ideological opposition to Creon, the pragmatic ruler that's replaced her father. Her willingness to die for her principles is framed more as a symptom of youth. She can't appreciate how destructive and foolish dying for her cause might be and so winds up ruining the lives of everyone she loves and not accomplishing anything other than ideological purity. Anouilh regards her youthful lack of perspective as her hamartia.
* In ''Vanities'', Kathy learns the hard way, after losing her boyfriend and her nervous breakdown, that her idea of "an organized life" doesn't work well in adulthood. Then the cast as a whole finds out that their friendship "isn't what it used to be".
* ''[[Cyrano De Bergerac]]'': At Act II Scene VII, De Guiche offers us a more sophisticated examples than most, when he counsels Cyrano to study [[Don Quixote]]’s chapter of the windmills... [[Foreshadowing|implying that Cyrano too will be betrayed by his own idealism]].


== Video Games ==
* In ''[[Live a Live]]'', the former hero Hash has this attitude; he despises people in general for forgetting him after he saved the day, and considers idealistic heroes {{spoiler|like Oersted}} to be stupid. He recants his position [[Redemption Equals Death|at the end]], though, and tells {{spoiler|Oersted}} to keep fighting so long as any one person believes in him. {{spoiler|But when the world curbstomps Oersted's idealism too, [[Omnicidal Maniac|Oersted decides to get revenge.]].}}
* In ''[[Deus Ex]]'', two semi-major supporting characters are idealistic teenage members of [[La Résistance]] helping you battle the [[Ancient Conspiracy]]. By ''[[Deus Ex: Invisible War|Deus Ex Invisible War]]'', long after their first plans have failed, they have grown up and become the cold-blooded, manipulative dictators of Earth ''and'' the ''new'' leaders of the [[Ancient Conspiracy]], claiming that they [[I Did What I Had to Do|did what they had to do]] to preserve human society.
** Also worth noting is that Nicolette and Chad were really only fighting against Majestic-12, NOT [[The Illuminati]] as a whole, so they didn't go on to join the same group they were originally fighting (and their expressed goals didn't change as much as their methods did). If you speak to Nicolette enough in the original game, it becomes obvious that she's not entirely innocent even then (and that she sees her alliance with Chad and Silhouette through very cynical eyes - considering their value as a tool of the Illuminati just like her mother did). Chad, however, may have started out more idealistic, and does give a "I can't believe I was that naive" speech in the second game.
* ''[[Fate/stay night]]'''s Archer is a very literal example. He is, literally, {{spoiler|the grown-up version of the [[Wide-Eyed Idealist]] main character who followed his ideals and became a hero, gone extremely cynical over the fact that his path towards being a hero is littered with the corpses of those who had to die to keep that ideal.}}
**  {{spoiler|The main problem was that Archer followed said very unrealistic ideal to the letter, which was to "save everyone"}}
*** Not really. The problem is that he tried {{spoiler|and (unsurprisingly) failed catastrophically}} to do so, resulting in him ending up {{spoiler|spending the rest of eternity ''killing'' people in order that the disasters they caused/were in the vicinity of won't affect anyone else}}.
** Then there's the fact that the people he gave everything to save ended up betraying him and executing him as scapegoat for their own convenience. He claims to mostly got over it, or accepted it to begin with, but it still played a factor.
* From ''[[Jak and Daxter|Jak X]]'':
{{quote|'''Jak''': [[The Power of Friendship|I've found out who]] [[Nakama|my real friends are]].
'''G.T. Blitz''': [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good|Oh please, the BS meter is really pegging now!]] }}
* In ''[[Devil Survivor]]'', [[Knight in Sour Armor|Keisuke]] winds up playing reluctant mentor to [[Genki Girl|Midori]]; she refuses to listen to his warnings partly because he feels this way. Over time, he grows more desperate to convince her ''and'' more cynical, until  {{spoiler|he [[Freak-Out|snaps]] and goes [[Knight Templar]]. This doesn't help convince her that he's ''right'', mind you.}}
* Completely inverted in ''[[Final Fantasy VIII]]''. Squall starts off believing that his own cynical, antisocial viewpoints are the correct ones, but as the game progresses and Rinoa and the friends he makes help him both emotionally mature and deal with his mental trauma, he becomes more idealistic.
* [http://www.zeldauniverse.net/articles/zelda-wii-needs-an-anti-hero/ This article] concerning ''[[The Legend of Zelda]]'' claims that, since ''[[Twilight Princess]]'' went with a realistic art style, Nintendo ought to have made Link more "realistic," namely, by turning him into an antihero. The author's argument hinges in large part on his assertion that people were "[[Fan Dumb|very disappointed]]" with ''Twilight Princess'' because the realistic art style supposedly ought to have been paired with a non-idealistic hero. The article became [[Hilarious in Hindsight]] because, a mere three days later, ''[[Skyward Sword]]'' was revealed with an art style that was decidedly less realistic than the one in ''Twilight Princess'', with a Link who is just as much of a normal hero as both the one in ''Twilight Princess'' and every other Link.
* In ''[[L.A. Noire]]'', veteran Vice Detective [[Noble Bigot with a Badge|Roy Earle]] says this to [[By-The-Book Cop|Cole Phelps]] when they discuss the crack down (or lack thereof) on illegal narcotics in the city.
{{quote|'''Roy''': "Drugs are prohibited. Doesn't mean people don't want to take them. Limiting supply doesn't mean that we have limited demand."
'''Cole''': "I understand that. I know that the average joe needs to unwind a little, let his hair down at the end of the week. But morphine? Heroin?"
'''Roy''': "It's important to demonize hop, Phelps. Looks good in the papers. But when all's said and done, it's just another chemical like booze. A lot of people in high places think we are doing the city a favor by keeping the dope rolling into Central Avenue. Donelly certainly believes we need to keep them anesthetized."
'''Cole''': "Better jobs and opportunities would go a lot further."
'''Roy''': "Will you listen to yourself?" }}
* Subverted in ''[[Backyard Sports]]'' with pretty much every character in there. They may have grown up, but, fortunately they're just as happy as they were when they were younger kids (maybe even more.)
* This exchange in ''[[Dragon Age|Dragon Age: Origins]]''.
{{quote|'''Protagonist''': What could the teyrn hope to gain by betraying the king?
'''Alistair''': The throne? He's the queen's father. Still, I can't see how he'll get away with murder.
'''Flemeth''': You speak as if he would be the first king to gain his throne that way. Grow up, boy.  }}
* In ''[[God of War (series)|God of War]] III'', Kratos has such an exchange with [[Wide-Eyed Idealist|Pandora]], telling her hope is for fools. She responds with a plea that hope gives people strength. {{spoiler|Eventually, she proves to be right as Kratos is actually empowered by hope from Pandora's Box.}}
* This little exchange in ''[[Dissidia Final Fantasy]]'' between [[Final Fantasy VII|Cloud]] and [[Final Fantasy IV|Cecil]] in regards to [[Final Fantasy II|Firion's]] dream of an ideal world.
{{quote|'''Cecil''': Did Firion give you his answer?
'''Cloud''': Yeah. He says he has a dream...and that he'll keep fighting to make it come true.
'''Cecil''': Sounds like Firion, sure enough.
'''Cloud''': He told you?
'''Cecil''': Yes, although he was embarrassed at first. He said he wants to create a world where flowers grow in perpetual peace.
'''Cloud''': Sounds so...childlike.
'''Cecil''': Honest men have honest dreams. }}
* Keeper, the boss of the Imperial Agent class in [[Star Wars: The Old Republic]] takes this attitude to Agents who make too many Light Side choices. Not so much that he disapproves in principle, but that he fears that idealism will cause the agent to burn-out.
* Cyrus tells the hero/ine of ''[[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl]]'' that things like friendship, compassion, and love are just illusions people use to block out [[Nietzsche Wannabe|the horrible reality of their suffering]]. He then comments on the hero/ine [[Stealth Insult|drawing strength from their compassion]].


== Webcomics ==
* Subverted in a ''[[Walkyverse|It's Walky]]'' strip, in which [[Anti-Hero]] [[Knight Templar]] Sal, who is attempting to destroy every alien abductee in the United States (and, by extension, the entire continent itself) tells Joyce, the quirky, innocent goofy girl trying to stop her, that she's just a naive, deluded little girl. Joyce shoots back that ''Sal'' is the 'little girl'; Joyce has been through as many difficult and painful moments in her life as Sal has, but has matured enough to be able to cope with them without letting them poison her essential [[Rousseau Was Right|goodness and optimism]], whereas Sal has been weak enough to let them corrupt her, and her reaction is the world-destroying equivalent of a childish attention-seeking temper tantrum. Sal has no comeback to that, and later events in the strip prove Joyce to be correct.
** Of course, Sal could've easily countered that with [[Shut UP, Hannibal|"Tell that to Anti-Joyce."]]
*** Although given that that happened well before the storyline in question, surely that (and the mindset that led to it) would be one of the things that Joyce had difficultly and painfully moved on from?
* ''[[Girl Genius]]'': [http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20101122 Remember when we had that youthful zeal?]
* In ''[[Sinfest]]'', [https://web.archive.org/web/20140209185535/http://sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=1576 Silly fundie, God is for kids!]


== Western Animation ==
* Grandad from ''[[The Boondocks]]'' shows heavy shades of this.
** Likewise Huey suffers a heavy case of cynicism towards society while Riley is too ignorant to care. In the comic strip, he had Cesar, who was similar to Huey but lacked his extremely jaded ideas. And MacGruder to make the comic even more cynical has Cesar moving away to deliver the final coup de grace.
* When part of the Justice League is turned into children in the ''[[Justice League Unlimited]]'' episode "Kid Stuff", most of them enjoy it. Green Lantern's having fun conjuring up things, Wonder Woman's having a girly crush on Batman, and Superman's being a bit goofy. Only Batman remains focused and serious, barely changed, and he's the one who eventually wins. When they return to normal, Wonder Woman comments that it was kind of fun being a kid again. Batman responds "I haven't been a kid since I was eight years old".
** That's an unfortunate bit of [[Truth in Television]]. People who lost a parent to death when they were children often describe it, as adults, as "My childhood ended then." This reaction seems to be most pronounced when the child was between about 7 and 12 when the parent dies.
* Resident [[Emo Teen]] Zuko from ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'' believes that Aang's ideas about peace, pacifism and forgiveness are childish


== Real Life ==
* In American politics, supporters of third-party candidates aren't congratulated for participating in the democratic system and standing up for what they believe in. Instead, supporters of Bob Barr, Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney and like candidates are often demonized by moderates on their side of the aisle and belittled by the media, with the justification that "compromise is better than idealism."
** This being a classic real-world example of why the gap between idealism and cynicism is actually a grey area in which a lot depends on the outcome. A third-party movement that ''succeeds'' can be an improvement on either party, at least in potential, from the POV of the third-party voters. But if not enough people join in the net result is often to bring about victory for precisely the party that the third-party voters would consider the worse option. Republicans still seethe about conservatives who voted for Perot and effectively elected Clinton, and Democrats often say that the green in 'green party' stands for Get Republicans Elected Every November. Hence, third parties these days tend to be in favor of things like approval voting.
*** The mathematics work out this way because American elections work on the basis of a simple plurality. So if 3% of the voters vote for whom they perceive to be the best party while 48% vote for the second-best and 49% vote for the worst (again, labels are as perceived by the 3% and maybe part of the 48%), well, [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero]].
*** The trick here is that altering the election system would require the co-operation of the party or parties in charge, and it's always in their best interest to keep third-parties as shutout as possible.
* The very fact that the [[Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism]] was once called the Sliding Scale of Idealism Vs '''''Realism''''' illustrates this trope well.
* In International Relations theory, the two biggest (though by no means only) schools of thought are usually referred to as Liberalism, which believes that [[The Alliance|countries can]] [[We ARE Struggling Together!|work together]] and that [[Good Feels Good|co-operation either is or should be a priority for countries in almost all circumstances and is mutually beneficial for all concerned]]; and Realism, which is a [[The Cynic|rather more cynical take on things]] [[Realpolitik|that suggests all countries are/should be]] [[It's All About Me|out for themselves at all times]], are mutually hostile, and often are [[Pretext for War|barely restrained from outright conflict]] at all times. Although realists were the ones who chose the label, so the choice was probably made with this trope in mind to suggest maturity and to downplay the 'silly' or 'naive' idealism of others.
** [[Golden Mean Fallacy|And in the middle]] we have the Rationalist school, which [[Golden Mean Fallacy|accepts some elements of both theories]].
* A political cartoon in 2008 accused John McCain of pandering to the right wing in his Republican Presidential nomination campaign with his much less moderate views than he had promoted in his 2000 campaign. When asked what happened to the "Straight-Talk Express" McCain of 2000, the cartoon version of him replied, "He lost."
* More than one Green Party has been torn between those who want policies that completely minimise our carbon footprint and those who want a chance at actually getting power to implement the lightest of said policies. Usually, the extremists have to break off and form a pressure group.

{{reflist}}
[[Category:Narrative Devices]]
[[Category:Good Is Dumb]]
[[Category:Morality Tropes]]
[[Category:Cynicism Tropes]]
[[Category:Silly Rabbit Idealism Is For Kids]]
[[Category:Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids]]
[[Category:Example as a Thesis]]