Bayonetta/Headscratchers
Bayonetta's father was a Lumen Sage...and that's terrible?
The Umbran witches make a big hullabaloo about 'destroying the balance between dark and light' and treat her like some demi-human destroyer of the universe...but I didn't really see any sign of her being influenced by her mixed heritage, with the possible exception of the white hair in the final summoning, and even then Jeanne has white hair in her magic so...did I miss something or was it just a form of Fantastic Racism?
- Just about, both groups, at first, seemed devoted to protecting the balance between Dark and Light, until Balder started plotting the Resurrection of Jubileus, starting by fathering Bayonetta, then, once she grew in power, attacking the Umbra Witches to presumably absorb her and revive said Jubileus. The bit about a sacred rule of not intermixing the two was probably set up to avoid said resurrection in the first place.
- It goes further. Balder is described as being motivated solely by self-interest. He deliberately seduced Bayonetta's mother and set the two groups on their path to mutual destruction purely because he wanted to be the only one with power over his (artificial? it seems to be powered by human sacrifice) Jubileus. The reason the two groups never before intermarried was a mixture of prejudice and an attempt to distribute power so as to avoid this result; a sort of checks-and-balances arrangement to keep any one man or woman from having influence over both Eyes.
- Not to mention the fact that Bayonetta punches Jubileus into the sun and is remarkably more powerful than other Umbra witches. It's noted within the game that Jeanne is something of a major prodigy, and even after Bayonetta sleeps for five hundred years and gets amnesia, Jeanne only catches up for a little while before being surpassed again. B-girl appears to be a Dragonball Z character playing in a lower power-level world.
- This Troper always assumed the white hair that shows up in the final summoning belonged to Jeanne, not Bayonetta.
- Jeanne was floating in space at the time Bayonetta summoned Queen Sheba, so she wasn't there, or else Bayonetta wouldn't be surprised when she showed up later on during the credits. The white hair belongs to Bayonetta, since as shown here, her outfit isn't entirely black.
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- If I may, the "white hair" that appears implied that Jeanne was still alive, and helping (or giving a power boost) to summon Sheba and knock out Jubileus. The "motorcycle" incident must've took place before the big summoning, and after Jubileus goes poof, Jeanne makes a full reappearence to help Bayonetta get rid of the statue husk Jubileus left behind.
Knowledge of Fly Me to the Moon before it's time?
It is shown that in Bayonetta's flashbacks that she remembers hearing the Fly Me to the Moon song. Now the song ws originally written in 1951, and her memories supposedly originally occured 500 years ago. There is a HUGE gap between these two dates... how the hell did the Umbran Witches know about a song that wasn't even written yet?
- Near the ending, Bayonetta traveled to the past to deliver little Cereza back to her own time, and THEN she sang that song to her, which she probably learned during her last ten (or was it twenty?) years in the modern day. That's how the song transcended time. Or at least, reached Bayonetta's memory even back then.
- Oh, I hadn't thought of that. Makes a lot of sense. The fact that the images shown with the singing flashback are the same ones as when we see Bayonetta's mom give her the necklace probably just means she's mixing memories up.
- Can't really remember the song being played in any flashback, though.
- Well it's not the actual Bayonetta remix of the song, just someone singing it A Capella in the original song's tempo. It happens when you meet Cereza for the first time.
- Near the ending, Bayonetta traveled to the past to deliver little Cereza back to her own time, and THEN she sang that song to her, which she probably learned during her last ten (or was it twenty?) years in the modern day. That's how the song transcended time. Or at least, reached Bayonetta's memory even back then.
Why isn't there a Fetish Fuel entry?
Seriously.
- Too obvious.
- That's like saying adding a Crowning Moment of Funny page to a comedy is too obvious.
- ...They sort of are. Crowners should always be the cream of the crop, and a Crowning Moment of Funny page usually is overkilled with anything that warranted the least bit of chuckling. The entire game was built around being Fetish Fuel--listing everything in the game is redundant, and most people won't pick out the, er, sexiest things they can think of, they'll just start picking out anything that could be construed as sexual ("Did you see the way x smirked in that scene! That totally deserves to be here with taking clothes off for combat!") because everything else is already there. I'm not so opposed to it, though.
- That's like saying adding a Crowning Moment of Funny page to a comedy is too obvious.
Hideki Kamiya said Bayonetta could easily beat Dante.
lolwut?
- His reason was that she's a woman, and therefore she has power over Dante. I don't know if he was being serious.
- If we want to take this way into the realm of over-analyzation, Kamiya has said that he's not really interested in the Devil May Cry games he didn't direct (all of them except 1), and the Dante we see in that game isn't as ridiculously powerful as Bayonetta. Maybe he's not aware of Dante's power in later games.
- Uh, yes, He is. He played some of Devil May Cry 4, remember, and Grace and Glory are obviously expy's of Agni and Rudra from 3.
- You kidding me? They'd be on equal terms until Bayonetta whips out her hair, at which point it becomes a Curb Stomp Battle.
- Dante has killed things that are just as big (and sometimes maybe bigger) with smaller attacks. I think Dante would be at least slightly above Bayonetta.
- I've played all the DMC games and Dante hasn't fought anything approaching the size of Bayonetta boss monsters, and she summoned something WAY bigger to beat Jubileus. In addition, though Dante has beaten some pretty powerful stuff he hasn't taken on anything with full universe destroying powers, Jubileus would have wiped out THREE at once. I love Dante to death but Bayonetta would at the least beat him, and would most likely crush him.
- So the fact that Dante's single-handedly wiped out THREE powerful demons, each one with power that rivals the other, one of which being the DEMON KING himself, means nothing?
- Of course it means nothing, considering it wasn't even 'single-handed' the first time. He needed the power of Sparda to even touch Mundus, and then needed Trish's help to finish him off not all the way. That was essentially a triple-team on one boss. The Demon King himself has no great feat of strength behind him, either. Jubileus at least blew up a moon and was a threat to three realities just by waking up. What did Mundus do, when he can't even take over one, and neither did the others?
- Simple. It's Kamiya's Word of God (seeing as he worked on the first game, and there are various hints in the game--the presence of Enzo, Luka name-dropping Trish as one of his past girlfriends, the description of the Band of Time mentioning Eva and Sparda) vs. Kobayashi's Word of God. It's up to the player to chose which they're going to follow. I'm not going to pick sides here, but even if one character had an advantage over the other, it wouldn't be some lopsided Curb Stomp Battle. Both Dante and Bayonetta have some pretty impressive feats under their belts, so we'd most likely be seeing a days-long, country-spanning battle royale at the very least if these two ever bumped heads (but given their personalities and lifestyles, I'm more willing to bet that they'd just call it quits after a while and resort to the alternative.
- It is likely that Dante Vs Cereza will not be a simple 1-stage brawl. Her Witch Time will be just one of her aces, IMHO, though only if they can get past a mastered Royal Guard. But I would rather have another DMC 4 happen, in this case some crossover in which they face off at first, like Dante and Nero did, and then face and take out a common enemy. Although, I wonder how Lady and Trish would react to her?
- Plain and simple, they wouldn't fight. Dante is the son of a powerful demon, and Bayonetta is an Umbra witch, and the Umbra Witches side with demons and make contracts with them to gain their powers plus they summon them. I'd see Dante and Bayonetta having more of a relationship closer to Rodin and Bayonetta and Rodin's a fallen angel. In the argument of who's more powerful, I'd side with Bayonetta from what others have said, because I don't really know Devil May Cry enough to know Dante's feats and powers.
- So the fact that Dante's single-handedly wiped out THREE powerful demons, each one with power that rivals the other, one of which being the DEMON KING himself, means nothing?
- I've played all the DMC games and Dante hasn't fought anything approaching the size of Bayonetta boss monsters, and she summoned something WAY bigger to beat Jubileus. In addition, though Dante has beaten some pretty powerful stuff he hasn't taken on anything with full universe destroying powers, Jubileus would have wiped out THREE at once. I love Dante to death but Bayonetta would at the least beat him, and would most likely crush him.
- This troper would say that in terms of raw power, the two are roughly equal. Punching Jubileus into the sun and the other boss-finishers was actually not Bayonetta herself, it was the various demons she summoned. The actual fight to weaken Jubileus and the bosses enough to get an opening to use these summons (if she could just summon her demons at any time she wanted, this troper would just ask Why Don't You Just Shoot Him?) was mostly a Death of a Thousand Cuts. Their physical and magical power seems to be mostly equal. Both are also Instant Experts with every weapon they find. Bayonetta's Witch Time can be countered by Dante's Quicksilver, and Dante's Royal Guard is equal to Bayonetta's Moon of Mahaa-Kaala. The only thing this troper can say about the battle, if it happened, is that it would be awesome.
Sooo...What's with the nun outfit?
- Seriously, why did she wear that? That's something I still haven't figured out.
- Crossing the Line Twice?
- Because she likes the outfit.
- In-universe, probably a disguise.
- When Enzo asks her, she says 'outfits' and 'toys', so she disguises according to the jobs, whatever they might be...
- She specifically says that it's cosplay. Jeanne says so too at the end of the game
Is Bayonetta retarded?
Don't get me wrong. I know she's a witch and all, and that she's some hundred years old when the game takes place, which should at least guarantee some degree of wisdom even with her amnesia. However, some people have taken their time translating all the demon and angel script found throughout the game, and with it came some Fridge Logic. Anyway, the clock that Bayonetta carries everywhere (even since before she lost her memories) has engraved on it "UMBRA CEREZA 1411.12.19", which is obvious to anyone who played the game that it's her name and birthday. Given that she obviously remembers the demon script, or at least has re-learnt it after awakening, so she could have come to the same conclusion; however, she chose the name Bayonetta instead. But what really bugs me is that when Cereza says her name, Bayonetta doesn't even twitch, or have a flashback, or anything. She just casually asks "Cereza? You're not from Vigrid, are you, little one?" and the talk goes on. Why would she not suspect or even ask anything? Is "Cereza" that common of a name there? She even calls her mommy!
- It's "obvious" only when you already know that's her name. Most people would not be naive enough to assume that whatever word written on an object they are wearing must be their name. On the other hand, she clearly does suspect something is up with Cereza, since she's not the kind of person who would just pick up a tagalong kid for no reason.
- She could have also believed it to be the name of a relative, since sometimes you inherited things like that from relatives as a family heirloom.
- This seems the most likely answer. Similar to how a man might give a woman jewelery with her name engraved upon it, and she hands it down to her daughter.
- She could have also believed it to be the name of a relative, since sometimes you inherited things like that from relatives as a family heirloom.
Fairness...yeah right
- This is probably intentional, but the enemy Fairness is the one with an attack that stuns from anywhere on the map, immediately followed up by either a fireball or a charge you can't avoid? Real fair alright.
- You can actually avoid the stun move by dodging while its happening. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave an enemy named Fairness such cheap tactic on purpose.
- After all, these 'angels' are anything but. Any GOOD reason for them snatching poor Enzo away? That was certainly not a rescue! A few others don't live up to their name either.
- You can actually avoid the stun move by dodging while its happening. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they gave an enemy named Fairness such cheap tactic on purpose.
Shooting her lipstick?
- I have two issues. One, how did the lipstick even get shot without an explosive charge? Two, why use it instead of a bullet? I can't tell if Rule of Cool even applies here...
- Issue 1) A witch did it. Issue 2) Because it was there?
- Her guns have Bottomless Magazines, there would need to be something special about her choice of ammo. I'm going with the theory that it's magic lipstick that makes for a more powerful shot.
- Scratch that, I have found a guide that translates the angel&demon text through the game, and according to it there is writing on the lipstick:
- Issue 1) A witch did it. Issue 2) Because it was there?
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- Okay, now I'm certain that Rule of Cool applies! I am no longer bugged!
- 1) As mentioned above, A witch did it. and 2) To give a swift kick (so to speak) to Balder for (if he did) giving her mother that lipstick when all he meant to do is knock her up then kill her off.
- And thus, Bayonetta's "Don't fuck with a witch!" line has a double meaning.
- 1) As mentioned above, A witch did it. and 2) To give a swift kick (so to speak) to Balder for (if he did) giving her mother that lipstick when all he meant to do is knock her up then kill her off.
When Bayonetta summons one of her hair monsters...
And said monster eats one of the MiniBosses... Her clothes are made of the same hair the monster is, right? So... exactly where did the miniboss go?
- Her hair just forms the portal and the medium for the demon to take form, but it's still the actual demon. So the demon eats the mini-boss and drags them through the portal to Inferno.
- To Purgatorio I figure.
- Purgatorio is where they are being dragged down into Inferno from.
- Her hair only summons and controls the demons. The miniboss goes back to Inferno in the belly of the demon when she unsummons it.
What's this "Very Easy Mode" for anyway?
Seriously, why did they need to make two easy modes? The four other difficulties have their specificity, that makes them fun in their own way. Easy mode is, well, easy and a fine warming up for beginning players; in Normal your health no more regenerates, the enemies are bit more resilient and you meet Gracious and Glorious; in Hard enemy attacks are much faster, deal much more damage and canon fodder is frequently replaced by Demonic Spiders; Non-Stop Infinite Climax removes Witch Time, forcing you to refine your dodging and countering skills.
But Very Easy mode? It's basically The Same but More compared to Easy… once you've beaten one, there is no point in doing the other, but you're forced to do it anyway since those empty squares in the chapter-scores board are an eyesore for any Hundred-purcent completionist. You can't even use it to unlock Jeanne or the Bangle of Time more easily, since it only works from Normal on. So does this thing have any other purpose than Fake Longevity?
- The most logical possibility would be to make it accessible to very inexperienced or new to the genre. Devil May cry has an automatic Easy Modes as well, unlocked by dying too often in the beginning. Here it is simply offered from the start without much Easy Mode Mockery. It can also be a better way to watch Bayonetta in action...
- It's just there to mock completionists.
Why all this trouble in chapter 6?
- In chapter 6 you are forced to maim a couple of Affinities with a lightpole to protect Cereza. Since they are not in the same dimension you can't attack them with your weapons. Alright. But then 1)Why are they able to attack Bayonetta with their weapons but not the opposite? 2)Why doesn't Bayonetta go into their dimension as she did just before that? 3)If that's because they are in Paradiso, then why don't the angels stay in that dimesion where she can do nothing to them while they can attack her?