Above Good and Evil: Difference between revisions

{{trope}}

 

A character declares that he or his objectives are more valuable than meaningless considerations about good and evil. Such distinctions are for slaves and lesser beings, not for him. He often terms them [[Good Is Old-Fashioned|antiquated]] or [[Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids|childish]]. He may go on to question [[What Is Evil?]]

 

 

The exact objectives of this character differ widely. Sometimes it is power, othertimes knowledge, or in the case of the [[Ubermensch]], his own values to replace traditional morality. In all cases their willingness to do anything to get there is absolute. In stories where morality is highly valuable, expect a character holding to this philosophy to suffer from [[Laser-Guided Karma]]. When suffering payback, the character rarely excuses the wrong done to them under the same principle. After all, the hero or other character doing the paying-back likely lacks the qualifications, according to his philosophy, for the status of a superior soul who is above good and evil.

 

 

Compare [[Bad Is Good and Good Is Bad]]. Villains whose strong point is not logic will sometimes use both tropes. [[Not Cheating Unless You Get Caught]] is a related concept, but it's more practical than philosophical.

 

{{examples}}

== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==

* ''[[Medaka Box]]'': {{spoiler|Ajimu, who as almost 13 quadrillion super powers}} is basically this, and states that life, death, love, hate, etc. is meaningless garbage. {{spoiler|This is because she is under the delusion that ''everything'' is fake.}}

 

== [[Comic Books]] ==

* [[Galactus]], foe of the ''[[Fantastic Four]]'', is a [[Planet Eater]] who often uses this justification; he (and other [[The Powers That Be|Cosmic Beings]] of the [[Marvel Universe]]) claim that he will one day do something that ''more'' than makes up for the uncounted trillions of deaths he causes, which sort of falls under [[Take Our Word for It]], since you'd have to wait ''billions'' of years to find out what that is. Galactus has always been treated not as a villain, but as a force of nature who really is above good and evil and takes no pleasure in consuming worlds.

** An earlier explanation is that he basically ''is'' the Big Crunch, and at the end of everything, will explode into a Big Bang, creating the next universe.

** The part of him that is still Galan denies that he is this. In one storyline when he was depowered, Galan decided that he had to do his best to delay his inevitable merging with the Power Cosmic for as long as possible.

* Roque Ja from ''[[Bone]]'' holds the "There is no good and evil, there is only power" philosophy. Unlike most others, he is actually neutral; he works for the bad guys for pay, but will turn on them if they insult him and he lets the heroes go so that they can defeat the Locust at the end.

* ''[[New Gods]]'': [[Darkseid]].

* [[Word of God|Word of]] [[Geoff Johns]] says that [[Blackest Night|Nekron]] was intended to be this. Given that he spends most of his panel-time committing atrocity after atrocity, culminating in {{spoiler|putting people's minds in an [[And I Must Scream]] state [[Forced to Watch]] as their now-undead bodies mindlessly slaughter their friends}}, fans tend to [[Complete Monster|disagree]].

 

== [[Film]] ==

* ''[[The Dark Knight]]'':

** The Joker in ''[[The Dark Knight]]'' considers himself something like this. He seems to think that everybody in the world is a sick, twisted individual deep down, and that he's the only man brave, smart and sane enough to realize that. As such he commits and incites horrific acts to try and make people 'see the light'.

** Later in the film, Joker's words are "[[Ironic Echo|echoed]]" by Two-Face's apology of "blind justice".

* In ''[[Dungeon Siege|In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale]]'', the [[Evil Sorcerer]] Gallian tries to destroy the Kingdom of Ehb in order to usher in a [[New World Order]]. When someone points out that he could show his merciful side by releasing the prisoners, he explains in a [[Large Ham]] way that he's beyond such petty concepts as Mercy, Good, or Evil. After he takes over, Good will be redefined in terms of power (i.e. the more the better). He is also insane, which he doesn't try to hide.

* In ''[[Film/Thirst|Thirst]]'', {{spoiler|Tae-ju}} takes this attitude to vampirism, comparing a vampire killing a human to a fox killing a chicken.

 

== [[Literature]] ==

* ''Beyond Good And Evil'' by [[Friedrich Nietzsche]], of course. In fact, one of the points of the book is criticizing philosophers for trying to tie Christian dogma into their philosophical consideration of morals instead of looking at it with a critical eye.

* In [[Robert Anton Wilson]]'s and Robert Shea's ''[[The Illuminatus Trilogy]]'', the Dealy Lama remarks that, "The reason I have lived so outrageously long is that I don't give a fuck for Good and Evil." In his case he's actually a pretty nice guy. He's just seen what happens when people get too taken with those concepts. {{spoiler|And he invented them to begin with, 30,000 years ago, and got really disappointed when people misused them.}}

* Rhynn and Kwll are two elder gods in [[Michael Moorcock]]'s ''[[Corum]]'' series. They claim to be above the divine squabbling, and are actually unbound by the Cosmic Balance. {{spoiler|''By the end of the series, Corum gets Kwll to slaughter the entire pantheon of Chaos. Then, for good measure, Kwll decides to off all the Law gods too.''}}

* In the ''[[Star Wars]]'' [[Star Wars Expanded Universe|Expanded Universe]], there's actually an entire Jedi heresy built around the idea that the dark side doesn't exist. It turned out to be a Sith lie, though.

** [[New Jedi Order|Vergere]] took it even further, believing that not only is there no dark side, but that there's no light side either.

** [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi Gray Jedi] are a milder example. They don't necessarily believe that good and evil don't exist, but Gray Jedi of varying backgrounds and species do reject the Jedi Council's dogmatic view of the force and explore both the dark and light side.

* In Susan Kay's ''Phantom'', Erik loses all sense of good and evil after realizing how easy it was to kill his Gypsy captor, and regards murder as just another art to master.

* The ''[[Children of the Lamp]]'' series features the Tree of Logic, proximity to which will eliminate all senses of good and evil from a djinn (possibly a [[Muggle]], but it's never fully explained). It's used in order to judge better, but it also eliminates all kindness, making the affected person a jerk.

* [[Omnicidal Maniac|Ruin]] of ''[[Mistborn]]'' is like this, claiming that good and evil have nothing to do with him, his counterpart Preservation, or his reason for wanting to destroy the world (it's not out of malice- it's because destroying worlds is what he ''does''.) [[Extraordinarily Empowered Girl|Vin]] disagrees. ''Strongly.''

"And Right and Left," said Syme with a simple eagerness, "I hope you will abolish them too. They are much more troublesome to me." '' }}

* The Dark Court in [[Wicked Lovely]], as stated by Irial. Unusual in that they actually ARE above good and evil, due to [[Blue and Orange Morality]].

* In [[Neil Gaiman]]'s ''[[Neverwhere]]'', {{spoiler|Islington}} is so far beyond good and evil that he couldn't find it with a telescope on a clear night.

* In [[Adrian Tchaikovsky]]'s ''[[Shadows of the Apt|Dragonfly Falling]]'', a Wasp slave justifies herself on the grounds there is no good or evil, just people doing things.

* [[The Draka]]:

* Paul Redeker in ''[[World War Z]]''.

 

* One of the German episodes of ''[[Monty Python's Flying Circus]]'' used this as a throwaway joke line in a sketch:

'''Waiter:''' Indeed, sir. This is truly a typical Bavarian restaurant. The food, the wine, above all the ''service'', is traditional ''beyond good and evil''! }}

* In ''[[Fringe]]'', during the episode "Amber 31422", [[Alternate Universe|the other Walter Bishop]], [[Alternate Universe Reed Richards Is Awesome|the inventor of the titular substance and U.S. Secretary of Defense]], says to [[Alternate Universe|Broyles]]: "Nature doesn't recognize good and evil, Philip. Nature only recognizes [[Order Versus Chaos|balance and imbalance]]. I intend to restore balance to our world. [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|Whatever it takes]]."

* Alpha in [[Dollhouse]] sees himself as this, to the point of explicitly referencing Nietzsche and referring to himself as the Ubermensch.

** Topher in the same series appears to be in this camp, at least at first. He's not mean-spirited, he just loves the science and doesn't care much about the human implications. (He does get better later on).

* This is argued over in [[True Blood]]. A lot of vampires would agree with Godric's claim "There is no right or wrong. These are human notions. There's only death or survival." He himself renounces this idea finally.

 

* A repeating theme in the [[Manowar]] song "The Power".

* British [[Post Punk]] band The Pop Group titled their debut single "She Is Beyond Good and Evil".

 

== [[Video Games]] ==

** Though since the TES universe uses reincarnation if you haven't pledged your soul to a daedric lord, and an afterlife of sorts if you did, death is also only a temporary inconvenience to you, too.

* In ''[[Sly Cooper]]'', the Contessa says this about herself. Sly points out that saying that is not going to make him give the [[MacGuffin]].

** Kreia is [[True Neutral]]. [http://www.gamebanshee.com/starwarskotorii/npcs/kreia.php Just take a look]. While she doesn't approve of a Light Side PC going around and helping out every beggar and kitten she ''equally'' disapproves of a Dark Side PC going around and killing random people [[For the Evulz]]. If the PC decides to take the Dark Side route with the Jedi masters (read: kill them all) she'll give you a [[Reason You Suck Speech]], as seen [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvS5MLnG0Y&feature=related here] She is a [[The Chessmaster|master]] [[Manipulative Bastard|manipulator]] and approves of the PC being one as well

* In ''[[Final Fantasy X]]'', Yu Yevon is described as this. He may have started off evil, but now he only exists to summon Sin.

* In ''[[Guild Wars 2]]'' the Norn are this. As a race, they do not particularly care whether your actions are good or evil, merely that they are worthy of legend. They do understand good and evil, but are far more apathetic about it than the other races (generally speaking).

* Pious Augustus in ''[[Eternal Darkness]]''. He states it clearly during Paul Luther's chapter:

* Though labeled an "evil" character ("dark" is more apt), ''[[Street Fighter]]'''s Akuma does not believe there is any merit in tagging one's self as 'good' or 'evil'. His ultimate goal is simply to be the most perfect example of a warrior, and that means anyone who has the might to stand against him will not be spared his full power, regardless of where they are morally.

 

'''George''': Leave me alone. }}

* [[Karate Bears]] displays this in [http://www.karatebears.com/2011/09/share-with-friends.html Sharing With Friends]

 

== Web Original ==

* The Warlord, from the ''[[Global Guardians PBEM Universe]]'', is a [[Time Travel|traveler from the future]] who came back to the present because he was bored. He didn't like the way things were going in his time, and he changes historical events at a whim. He considers himself "beyond" such petty concerns as right and wrong.

 

== [[Western Animation]] ==

** Another argument that might have held more weight with Wan Shi Tong would be to point out that his own beloved library would be among the things a victorious Fire Nation would have destroyed.

** It wasn't that Sokka wanted to take and use information, it's that he wanted to take and use information ''to fight a war''. The owl was fine with them looking around, and didn't seem to mind Sokka nicking things too much, until he heard Sokka say candidly that they were going to destroy the Fire Nation when they're at their weakest.

* "The Mysterious Stranger" from ''[[The Adventures of Mark Twain]]'' has [[Satan|the eponymous Stranger]] say, "I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is."

* A mad scientist supervillain in ''[[Mighty Max]]''. He turns his [[Devolution Device|de/evolutionary ray gun]] on himself to increase his [[Evolutionary Levels|evolutionary level]]. The first time, he turned into a large brained psychic. When he returns for another episode, he turns it on himself again and turns into a multicolored orb of "pure thought". He uses it a third time and starts babbling about "ultimate knowledge" and "[[Medium Awareness|hearing the music]]" before flying off. Wise fowl-man Virgil proclaims that he has "evolved towards the infinite, far beyond such primitive concepts like good and evil", which is funny considering Virgil is firmly on the "good" side.

 

== [[Real Life]] ==

* [[The Sociopath]] is usually the natural version of this trope. Note that sociopaths are not "evil", per se; their social conscience is just weak (Hence the SOCIO part of Sociopath in which Path means disorder. Social Disorder) and they have the ability to easily disregard good and evil when they like it. While a sociopath may obviously not always base actions on good and evil, some sociopaths can be good, harmless or heroic, but their quality of goodness hinges on if they just desire to do what is needed or if there is a benefit in being good. If you have a sociopathic friend, sometimes the only way to persuade them of anything contrary to what they want, is through cold hard logic of best individual benefit, stripped of ethical relevance. And that's assuming they're rational people or they agree with you.

* A variety of real life religions or theological traditions are built on this sort of spiritual power, including:

** Most religions don't (or did not) actually base their concepts of good and evil on societal consensus. Instead, 'good' was everything in line with their deity's or deities' will and 'evil' was everything else. If a deity willed that a group of humans must die, that was ''good'' and ''defending'' said humans would have been considered evil. This is obviously very different from the modern concept(s) of good and evil and followers of religions with such a basis regularly struggle with [[Values Dissonance]].

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Goodness Tropes]]

[[Category:Evil Tropes]]

[[Category:Characterization Tropes]]