Alice in Wonderland/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

=== The book ===

** Its mostly because of how outright absurd it seems; from a generic person's view, [[The Lord of the Rings (Literature)|having Earth's prehistory as magical, with medieval european looking civilisations, with elves, orcs and dwarves and with a fallen dark lord that once disguised himself as a bishounen to fool the elves]] or [[His Dark Materials|a multiverse with a god like particle of which angels are made and with armoured polar bears]] makes more sense, because as a whole things seem to follow a certain logic. [[Alice in Wonderland (Literature)|Alice in Wonderland]] is not by any means logic, in fact its the opposite of it, not even having a recognisable plot, and thats what leads people to think it was the result of drugs, which is quite sad because [[Mind Screw]] is an awesome trope.

** It is this troper's personal opinion that the two ''Alice'' stories are inseparable. You can't have one without the other. Besides, two separate articles would just [[Viewers Areare Morons|confuse people who are unfamiliar with ''Alice''.]]

*** I (probably not the original poster) am not sure why one can't help aging past six and a half, but two can, since [[I Cannot Self -Terminate]] wasn't really implied (unless [[Values Dissonance]] between myself and a 19th-century Christian is obscuring [[Intrinsic Vow|the strength of the "no suicide, no heaven" thing]]).

** It's definitely an allusion to dying/having someone kill you, but I seriously think Gardener was reaching on this point. As a lot of other examples show, people love stretching to find darkness in Alice in one way or another. Gardener's idea doesn't make much sense -- peoplesense—people can commit suicide very well alone, possibly easier than they can find someone willing to kill them. Much more likely (in my opinion) is that the real joke there was Carroll playing on the use of 'one' as a pronoun -- hepronoun—he was very fond of creative, illogical misinterpretations like that -- andthat—and Gardener took it entirely the wrong way.

=== The Disney animated film ===

** Or put more plainly, oysters are in danger during the colder months, when they can be kept cold (in the days before mechanical refrigeration) for a longer period of time. In the Northern Hemisphere summer months don't have an R in them. Read more [https://web.archive.org/web/20111004080442/http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/faq/fishfaq5b.html here].

=== The Tim Burton film ===

*** A mark of added realism and character depth--indepth—in the real world even people known by titles (like the Dalai Lama) have given names, and those who assume a name along with a title (like the popes) also have birth names. Giving names to the characters suggests a past, a history, and that they are real people. Of course whether that was an appropriate thing to do, particularly with a product like Alice in Wonderland where things don't make sense as a rule and the characters are in many ways archetypes, is another matter--butmatter—but even if you think that was a bad or wrong reason to do it, that is still likely the reason.

** Yeah, I agree. And kind of more paternal from Alice's direction than the Hatter's. Well, it sort of went both ways, a little, which I guess makes it more of a [[Like Brother and Sister]] thing. So I didn't see the whole [[Strangled Byby the Red String]] problem, because it seemed sort of as though she saw him as [[The Woobie]]. So it wasn't that she suddenly had deep feelings for a bizarre man who's twice her age under all that makeup, she just saw him as a friend and on top of that felt bad for him because he's the tragic, organic disorder version of [[The Mad Hatter|his namesake trope]].

* In the Tim Burton film, the futterwaken. Not only that it was a [[BigNon LippedSequitur Alligator MomentScene]] that makes anyone who preforms it properly look like the [[Widget Series|Japanese]] [[Ronald McDonald]],but Alice's use of it at the end was... utterly pointless, even if you consider it to be a generic victory dance, unless you interpret it as her attempt to convince those present that she's mad, a sort of [[Refuge in Audacity]] (I thought at first that she was merely flaunting her lack of stockings).

* The [[Chosen One]] plot. Bloody hell. I know the original book was just sort of a bunch of random events and encounters, but of all the plots they had to bolt on to this thing, why [[ClicheCliché Storm|that?]] ... Though the Jabberwocky was pretty badass.

** I'm a feminist, and while I liked Alice becoming a warrior (well, apart from the [[ClicheCliché Storm]] involved), the epilogue was less credible than Wonderland. Sure, even in the 19th century, there were some possibilities for a woman (particularly a wealthy one) to get to do something else than get married, but becoming a merchant's apprentice and going to China? Yeah, right.

** It's a [[Historical in In-Joke]] [[Fridge Logic|gone sour.]] Though whoever said Alice would be trading opium?

** Because, as was pointed out above, the White Queen had said whether Alice would fight or not was [[The Evils of Free Will|her own choice]]. Despite the fact the Oraculum showed her fighting the Jabberwock that day, if Alice had continued to believe it was [[All Just a Dream]] or had otherwise chosen not to fight, the Red Queen would have won. By coming there she was simply counting on Alice continuing to remain oblivious and clueless, or at least neutral. The fact that Alice remembered her past visit, then decided to protect her old friends and be strong to embrace her destiny, fulfilled the prophecy--butprophecy—but not only did the Red Queen think that wouldn't happen, fate was not as ironclad as it appeared. Until the last moment, Alice still could have chosen not to fight. And as has been pointed out farther down, the Oraculum just shows her fighting, not winning. If she hadn't hung on to the Vorpal Blade as she'd been told...

**** Ah. No, it's presumably a master at evaporation the same way termites are master architects, or [[Dungeons and Dragons|sorcerors are different from wizards]]. It could be a master at evaporation magic, though, [[What Measure Is a Non -Human?|if it really is a being rather than just an intelligent beast]].

**** Chessur wasn't saying evaporating skills was the ''only'' way to heal her wounds, just that that was what she would need. Why would she need it? Because he knew (or at least strongly believed) that the Bandersnatch could never be convinced to heal her itself with its antidote saliva, so his evaporation was the only method available to heal her. The unstated part of his sentence is "You'll need someone with evaporating skills to tend that wound [because the Bandersnatch certainly won't help you]." He didn't say that part because there was no point getting her hopes up with something he thought impossible. (He didn't count on the [[Androcles' Lion]] gambit.)

** Just my interpretation, but I was under the impression that the Red Queen's authority and power derived magically from the Jabberwock. Because the minute it was destroyed, we didn't see everyone run away, or immediately rise up against her--insteadher—instead the cards lost their will to fight, the Knave lost what had seemed to be fanatical loyalty in favor of contempt and hatred, and even the Hatter stopped threatening the Knave, as if he no longer saw him or the Queen as threats anymore. Why this would be or how, I don't know, but it seemed that it wasn't just fear which compelled people to follow and obey her, but an actual magical compulsion. Perhaps the Power of Fear made literal?

*** That's... even ''worse''. So, you adapted a book you don't like into a movie and made it "better" by imposing a plot where there was none and missing the whole point of said book (being, there is no point)? It's like asking [[Zero Punctuation (Web Animation)|Yahtzee]] to make a J-RPG for you.

[[Category:Alice Inin Wonderland]]