Babylon 5/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions
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*** If you're [[The Hero]], you [[Take a Third Option]] as B5 so often did. Basically it was just a hastily-written way to eliminate a character whose actor wanted out.
**** If this option was so hastily written, what the heck was with "Reflection, surprise, terror: for the future" back in season one with Mr. Visibrain? Wasn't that put there precisely so they could reconstruct Talia later on? They just never got to the 'reconstruct' part since she left.
***** That was part of another hastily written retcon. When the Lyta actress left, they no longer had a teep on the station who was [[Touched
****** Ivanova was never going to be [[The Mole]]: after it was clear Takashima wasn't coming back, then, if they decided to pursue that storyline, [[The Mole]] was always going to be Talia (as set up by her line in her first episode: "I don't feel like a victim.") The "retcon" of what the data collected by the ViCaR was for was not "hastily rewritten": JMS had several ways that such plot points could be taken, as a way of planning against [[Real Life Writes the Plot]] complications. If Andrea Thompson had not wanted to leave, it's likely that the sleeper-personality story would simply have never been used (Garibaldi's aide having already been revealed as a mole in the first season finale).
*** This kind of thing should have been handled by a court or courtmartial. Not even [[The Hero]] should be able to grant himself sole power as judge, jury, and executioner.
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*** Considering the stakes their little conspiracy was playing for, taking a risk like this was necessary. In a troublesome the end justifies the means way, but according to their information it was the only way.
*** If "murder" was what was at stake when they caused the implanted personality to emerge, then the real murderers were the Psi Corps, who implanted the personality in the first place. Talia was already a dead woman walking.
*** While I agree that they had to do it, it just would have been more in character if they had, you know, ''mentioned'' the fact that the person would essentially die. It wouldn't have taken more than a couple of lines.
*** What bugs me most about this, other than Sheridan's willingness to go along with the "personality-murder" solution without even looking for another option (and without objection from his crew), is the fact that it's barely mentioned afterward. Even by Ivanova, who was ''in love with'' Talia. If I recall, she refers to her exactly once after she's gone, when she confesses to Delenn, and Talia is otherwise basically relegated to [[Forgotten Fallen Friend]] status.
*** Wasn't the Sleeper personality the "real" Talia though? I thought she originally volunteered for the assignment, so keeping her as "their" Talia would be like brainwashing Hugh Laurie to really be House.
*** Explicitly stated in the episode - the person was taken and worked over where a new personality was created that remained in the subconscious, watching, listening, whispering. The real Talia was destroyed, the artificial version of her was all that remained. This is probably why she was dissected by the Core (along with Ironheart's modifications) - the new personality wasn't a real person to Corp.
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** I can't say anything about the Centauri not mentioning it, but for the Minbari leader, he may very well have been the first to think about it in that situation. At the time, Minbari ships may have been owned by each of the three castes, but for practical purposes the Warrior Caste operated pretty much every capital ship in their military and government forces. Open gunports as a respectful sign are done without a thought, so it's one of those blind cultural missteps where one party does something that inadvertently offends or frightens the other because it's what they've always done. The leader was pretty much the first non-Warrior in the chain of command there to hear about it and realize it'd be a mistake.
*** I'm sorry but I can't agree with this. There's a ''universe'' of difference between a "cultural misstep" like eating with the left hand in an Islamic country and '''being a Goddamn idiot'''. Approaching another ship, a ship you have never seen before and has never seen you before, with your gunports open is brain-breakingly stupid. "Sign of respect" my ass. It makes no sense. Who could possibly think that was a good idea? It's like walking into a room and greeting another person you've never met by pointing a loaded gun at them. How are they supposed to know you left the safety on? All they see, all they need to know, is that you have a loaded gun pointed at them. Is it really so inconceivable that they might draw their own gun and shoot you in the face?
**** Maybe the Minbari concept of respect is intertwined with intimidation. Something along the lines of, "We could kill you if we want, but we're not going to because we think you're cool." (And considering how the Minbari find tons of excuses for violence, that's actually quite a compliment) Why this was never a problem before might just be that everyone else was too intimidated by the Minbari to shoot first or the ones that did are warmongering anyway.
***** It's also possible that most Minbari contact came at a time when their tech was more equal with the contactee and thus didn't accidentally blind their sensors. The Minbari were isolationist for a very long time prior to that incident. They never seem to have realized in this case they blinded their target, thus inadvertently changing the effect of their gesture.
*** Humans actually ''fire'' guns in salute. Be that as it may it is not implausible that an inexperienced subaltern would revert to Standard Operating Procedure in the absence of orders to the contrary. There were enough [[Real Life]] [[First Contact]] situations that really were botched to find this believable. Vasco de Gama sailed into the Grand Moguls empire with a gift of beads and such like-because all the cultures they had passed before had been low-tech ones for whom such things were satisfactory. How could he have done such a stupid thing? Well when one thinks about it, it wasn't all that hard. Neither was the incident in [[
**** Even if humans do fire guns in salute (I have never heard this before) I doubt any military on Earth fires guns ''at other people'' in salute. So, world of difference. Firing guns off into the distance, making it clear you are not aiming at the approaching ship, is a ''slightly'' reasonable form of greeting between navies. Approaching another ship with your guns aimed ''at them'' and ''assuming'' they have the ability to tell that your guns are powered down is completely stupid.
***** "Open gunports" and "guns aimed at them" is a world of difference. In fact, the only difference between the navy salute you describe and the thing the Minbari do - except for actually firing the cannons - is that it's a tad bit difficult to see where the guns / cannons are pointed at when you are in space with a few miles between you and the other ship. That's what the scan is for, not to see whether the weapons are powered up. Assuming that this ability - scanning whether the guns are actually pointed at you - exists is kinda reasonable considering it's the first thing the EA ships in In The Beginning were trying to do, unfortunately they were unwittingly being jammed by the Minbari's scanners.
******* as far as the minbari were concerned the humans could see the minbari's weapons and that they weren't aiming. so it's like putting your hidden gun out on the table, without bullets. you show that you aren't trying to hide anything.
******* Yes, thats what the Minbari saw it but the humans having no idea that the guns wherent locked on them and that they wherent armed to fire due to the Minbari also blocking their scans the scans. To the Humans it was more like showing you had a gun but never indicating the safety was on or even if you werent pointing your gun at them from under the table.
****** Minbari ships mount guns on the bow. They were pointing their ships directly at the human fleet. Ergo, their guns were aimed at the human fleet. This isn't difficult to understand
** Huh. You know, the Centauri are very found of [[Xanatos Gambit|Xanatos Gambits]]. Maybe they were hoping this would happen, and not only did they not tell them about the gunports, but warned them that the Minbari were unpredictable and warlike. And recommended an especially trigger-happy captain for [[First Contact]], etc. All part of a plan to get rid of a powerful leader and divert the Minbari's attention so they could empire-build.▼
For that matter, the naval tradition you describe is ''itself'' a stupid and irresponsible tradition. It only makes sense among cultures who already know about this absurd practice. The only reason it never resulted in a tragic misunderstanding with an unfamiliar culture is pure blind luck. Bottom line: Greeting a completely unknown ship from a completely unknown civilization by ''POINTING GUNS AT THEM'' is a ''pants-on-head retarded idea''. The fact that it resulted in a near-genocide is all the evidence necessary to prove that it's a stupid idea. Hell, Ducat even tried to order the gunports closed at the last minute because he ''knew'' that it was a stupid tradition that would lead to a misunderstanding.
▲** Huh. You know, the Centauri are very found of [[Xanatos Gambit
** The Commander of the Earthforce expedition panicked when he was told that the Minbari ship had its gunports open. There is also the likelyhood that no one mentioned it to him or he just didn't read whatever briefing they gave thouroughly enough.
*** It is even simpler than all this. The Centauri never thought that it would be a problem. Why? It was only a problem for the humans because of the interference the Minbari scanners caused with the human systems. It was sheer bad luck that anything came of it, we have no reason to assume that Centari vessels would not be able to detect the weapon status like the humans did.
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*** But military metaphors lean toward the retro. Humans had ten thousand years or more experience fighting on Earth and only about two hundred years fighting in space.
*** If the Narn didn't have it, then how come their ships had no revolving portions? They clearly had gravity in them. It's a quite perplexing question, considering that during the war it would have given them the much-needed cash...
**** A crew onboard a spacecraft will experience gravity whenever the ship's engines are
**** They made their ships to look more advanced then they were on purpose... but they're all shown strapped in during the show (just like the crews of the human ships that didn't have rotating parts).
**** [[Word of God]] is that the Narns did not have artificial gravity, which is why anyone you see in a Narn ship is strapped into their seat.
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** Actually, G'Kar's lusts seemed to be aimed more at human women. He had an obvious attraction to Lyta Alexander, once emerged from his bed chambers behind three human women in order to have a meeting with Sinclair and Na'Toth referred to his reported fondness for Earth women in her first appearance.
** There's also the possibility that G'kar feels that it is a way of conquering the Centauri, following basically the same logic that rapists motivated by hatred of women use.
** Hey, just look at Strom Thurmond. To quote David Cross, "pussy's pussy."
** At least once several Centauri ladies are seen exiting his bedroom, clearly quite pleased, so it's clear that there can be mutual attraction between the species. This troper is inclined to think that it's a major case of the [[Forbidden Fruit]], just as it was between different ethnicities back in the first half of the 20th century; it was widely considered morally rotten behaviour, but the taboo only led to widespread beliefs about the sexual attractiveness and prowess of the Other. The same deal here; consider G'kar like a black man from the 1950's with an interest towards white women.
* In the episode "A Spider in the Web", when Garibaldi is leading Miss Winter's escort. Why does he let her enter a room without even looking in there first? For a man portrayed as professionally paranoid, that is an unforgivable slip. He could have politely escorted her in, to get a quick look around, at least.
* In the episode "Believers" why weren't the parents immediately arrested for murdering their child on Babylon 5? I could understand them waiting until they got home (or even onto the transport ship), but I would think that Commander Sinclair would have a dim view of people killing other people for religious views on his station. This is also after the episode has made a big deal about how it is required for Stephen to respect the wishes and religious views of the parents and not operate on their son. Are the parents exempt from respecting the rules and laws of Babylon 5?
** Diplomacy. The Earth Alliance is not the United
*** They weren't even from a League world, half the episode was the parents trying to get someone to throw some diplomatic weight behind them.
** Didn't you know? Religous freedom always trumps the law. Its tradition, after all, and that makes it ok!
*** Without actually knowing ''what'' the rules of the Babylon station say on the matter (and they never say clearly), anything we speculate here is just guesswork. The fact is, they were not arrested, and there must have been a reason for that, but since it was unstated, the viewers are limited to [[WMG
**** If I remember correctly, the [[Word of God]] was that each race follows their own laws in internal affairs, and in this particular case, the parents had the full right to do the deed under their own law. If they had killed a human child, for example, the station's justice system would have been less lenient.
***** Confirmed in the [http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/010.html Lurker's Guide] page for the episode.
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** Their relationship got even more obnoxious as the series went on. They seemed to have something genuine up to mid season 4, but after that there are such lovely gems as her going off to face her clan in Atonement without telling Sheridan that she might not be back, Sheridan telling her in Lines of Communication that he'd rather she stayed on the station to keep him happy ''even though it would mean ignoring mass murders of her caste mates by the warriors--'' and Delenn not even putting him in his place for it, Delenn overtly flirting with Neroon a few episodes later, and then the whole S5 situation where she was very much interested in Lennier in ways that can't be considered entirely platonic. 'What The Frak?' How is any of this compatible with what both of them recognized when Sheridan was at ZHD: that they are both the other's reason for living? Dear JMS, write them as devoted soul mates or write them as conveniently together for political/religious/etc reasons but ''not both.''
*** It's perfectly possible to be both soulmates and a [[Perfectly Arranged Marriage]] with Sheridan. Delenn never flirted with Neroon; they met, made a political conspiracy, and courteously called each other [[Worthy Opponent]] s . As for Lennier, I didn't get to season 5 but in season 1-4 she was perfectly proper with him. She was in an incredible bind; for she knew she owed him a lot but the one thing he wanted(without him admitting it) was the one thing she couldn't give. Perhaps she should have dismissed him but she couldn't bear to break his heart, and it would likely dishonor Lennier, certainly if the reason became known. The whole thing was was just a very sad tragedy.
*** Aren't you being just a wee bit hard on Sheridan? That was simply the way every lover that sees their beloved off to war is supposed to act in stories. It is a simple replay of the [[
** The most obnoxious thing about Delenn is that we're supposed to forgive her for her role in the E-M war despite ''never'' seeing any character work to justify that she's worthy of
*** She was a stateswoman and had to keep such feelings bottled up. On some occasions every decision a powerful figure makes will cause someone to die. If a decision turns out to be a mistake thats even worse. That doesn't mean she wasn't troubled-in fact she certainly did seem troubled to me, it meant she simply wasn't rendered incapable of functioning. As for "repenting" the only ones she could "repent" to are humans, whatever she considers her equivalent of God to be, and to herself. She can't apologize to humans without the orders of the Minbari government which certainly would never be given as she was a diplomat and not an ordinary person. And the other forms of repentance are private matters, especially to an honor culture like the Minbari. It would not have helped make everything all better if she had ruined herself with grief when people depended on her. I'm sure [[Winston Churchill]] didn't feel dandy about the bombing campaign after the war either but he kept that to himself.
*** Remember when Delenn cringed when the reporter was interviewing her. That makes it pretty obvious that she regretted it.
**** She didn't just cringe, she broke down into tears and begged them to stop the interview.
*** Why exactly is it her fault in the first place? She flipped out after her mentor and father-figure was murdered, and cast her vote in favor of going after the murderers, yet she wouldn't have accomplished anything but a tantrum if it weren't for the other council members, with less excuse, also voting for the war. Most of the blame should fall on the other council members who chose to accept her vote despite her obvious emotional turmoil. Besides, It's been over ten years, leaving Delenn quite enough time to handle any issues she has with it.
*** Well it was less her fault then others. She did deserve whatever angst she gave herself for it despite the fact that she was otherwise a very likable character. But she deserved blame less then the others. Some of her actions can be inferred as partly guilt. Sometimes she seems to have had recklessness that lends suspicion of a death wish. And her estrangement from the Grey Council could easily be interpreted as a grudge. I think she was deliberately manipulated to make an opportunistic war that would enhance the religious and warrior caste's prestige. They pressed her when she was most vulnerable and then never let her change her mind. Delenn of course knew that perfectly well later and I think she did hold it against them.
*** A-'''hem'''. She devoted her life to making amends between her people and the humans, to the extent of making herself partly human. You don't think that has something to do with her guilt for the war?
** That in Thirdspace Sheridan flys through one of the most packed space battles in cinematic history with ships, munitions, lasers and debris all over to deliver a nuke. He goes all the way from B5 to the big bad enemy mothership THROUGH this battle in what, an Omega class destroyer, a Minbari cruiser, an Earthforce fighter. No IN A FRICKKING SPACESUIT. try skateboarding the whole length of the M1 or the I66 or any other major motor/high way against trafficflow with a nuke. and all this to punch out Cthulhu at the end
*** With all the warships shooting at each other and the jamming that must have been going on, Sheridan in his spacesuit with a piddling suitcase nuke must have been the least threatening energy signature around. That would have let him sneak around the artifact. He was going to splat ineffectually against the shields, so there was no need for the bad guys to waste time swatting him, and he was heading for the bad guys so no reason for the good guys to shoot him.
** S & D are very difficult characters to get a grasp on. You're certainly not alone in finding S & D to be extremely obnoxious. Much of the B5 fanbase adores them; even some people who find them obnoxious still adore them. Neither Sheridan or Delenn are particularly likable yet
*** She helped formed an alliance of almost every known race including her own race's former enemy. I think Deleen gets a pass on diplomatic competence.
** I think a big part of the magic that was B5 is that everything in the series meshes well enough that the viewer doesn't look at things hard enough to see the plot holes or realize that all of characters deserve to be fired out the nearest airlock post haste.
** Building off the above thought regarding how most of the main characters deserve to be spaced...
*** Delenn is a textbook [[Love Freak]] - who bears a huge responsiblity for nearly wiping out another species (The Humans) purely out spite. She dragged her race into intergalactic war twice - once out of misguided rage following the death of her mentor and once again because of her Messiah complex, her belief in prophecy and her belief that anything she does to bring about the prophecy is justified... even if she has to become a [[Manipulative Bitch]] and use multiple [[Xanatos Gambit
**** What kind of person would you want to inspire an intersteller war against demonic monsters? What qualities would you expect her to have? Deleen was the perfect choice as a symbol and unfortunately she had the weaknesses that would be most likely to go with the strengths that gave people courage. Her faults proves that epic heroes and heroines are dangerous(not a bad lesson), but her virtues were just what was needed.
**** And be fair, Delenn gets [[What the Hell, Hero?|called out]] on her dubious motives and actions. Several times, in fact, by several different characters.
*** G'Kar starts out as a [[Lawful Evil]] semi-[[Noble Bigot]] who considers any act that improves the position of the Narn regime to be justified because [[Humans Are
*** Londo starts as a [[Chaotic Neutral]] hedonist who winds up making a [[Deal
***** Anyone who thinks all B5's characters need spacing because they actually have *gasp* CHARACTER FLAWS, has been watching too much Star Trek. An awesome bunch of actors made them pretty much all likeable, warts and all.
***** Oh, I am with you, all the way. There's a reason I've always liked ''Babylon 5'' better than ''Star Trek''.
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* Distances in B5 never make any sense. One the one hand, you have the claim at one point (just as the Shadow/Vorlon conflict went to the planetkillers) that there will be no life for 70 lightyears when the Shadows and Vorlon are done. That's like saying England and Germany are going to go to war and all life in someone's backyard is going to be wiped out. Then the ultimate indignity: in the season 5 episode "Day of the Dead" you have one character say that they're 200 million lightyears away from B5, and then another that her comm-link is acting like B5 is a million lightyears away (the dead chick hanging out with her claims that the world they're supposed to be on must be very far away from B5, and not a few minutes later same "million lightyears away" chick says they're only 27 lightyears from B5...which would be right next door, galactically speaking. Her earlier comment about "a million lightyears" could be taken for hyperbole, but the other guy was pretty definite about the distance.
** Well, that's what you get when Neil Gaiman writes an episode.
** Part of this is the [[Sci
** There are hyperspace currents and eddies, so maybe there are "trade winds" or something that make travel to certain places via hyperspace take longer or shorter than their realspace locations would suggest.
----
* The biggest issue with the B5 arc is that there was no plot work establishing why the Shadows and Vorlons meekly packed their bags at Corianna 6. Over the course of minutes, the Shadows and Vorlons went from using planet killers to walking away peacefully despite having no established reason to stand down. There was no more of a reason for the belligerents to put aside their 10,000+ year feud because Sheridan asked them to grow up than there would have been a reason for the Americans and Soviets to end the cold war during the Cuban Missile Crisis if the Dominican Republic had asked the superpowers to please kindly not have a nuclear war on their doorstep. Sheridan had hardly any more tools to influence the Shadows and Vorlons than the Dominican Republic would have had to influence the USSR and USA. When Corianna 6 happened, the Shadows and Vorlons would have been as committed to the war as the USSR and USA were committed in 1962.
** Both Shadows and Vorlons consider themselves guardians and teachers of the younger races. Sheridan argues that if they go on with their little war, they will eventually have no one left to guard and teach at the end. No matter who would have won their war, ''both'' would have failed their mission as guardians and teachers. I think it's a somewhat convincing argument.
* There was no reason for the Shadows and Vorlons to stand down rather than
** They didn't develop a conscience, this wasn't a real war to them. The Shadows were turning the other races against each other, driving them into conflict and upping the ante whenever things started to cool down, that was their goal to provide conflict and help the younger races grow from it. They brought out the planet killers because the Vorlons did and the Vorlons did it to wipe out their influence, not the Shadows themselves, to amke the Vorlon way of doing thinsg the dominant way. The war ended and they left because the younger races flat out refused to accept either of their methods or follow them anymore. The Shadows and Vorlons stayed behind with the younger races to guide and teach them so they'd grow into First ones themselves, if the younger races would not listen to them any longer there was no longer any point to the conflict or remaining there any longer, so they left. The war wasn't about territory or rescources or power, it was a debate between the two First Ones over who had the better method, and the debate was cancelled before conclusion because the audience got up and left.
* JMS should have left some foreshadowing to suggest that the Shadows and Vorlons were open to a non-violent final settlement or reached far enough into the deus ex machina pit to make 'get the hell out of our galaxy' an order backed by credible force.
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** It doesn't explain the Vorlon position nor does it pass the smell test given the Shadows' collective intelligence and the depth of their commitment to the war. A mature and committed (political) actor would not make a 180 degree about face within minutes of someone pointing out the obvious. They would have either realized the problem (mass genocide == nobody alive to mindfuck) in advance and backed away from going on a rampage or have been too committed (killing the Vorlons is more important than having anyone alive to mindfuck) to reverse course. Falling over that quickly would be a bit like the United States, circa 2002, deciding not to invade Iraq just because some child reminded Dick Cheney that wars kill people.
** It's possible I'm holding JMS to too high a standard by using international relations concepts and basic game theory to take apart a script that was almost certainly written in a few days by someone who doesn't have a background in IR.... :-)
*** That is a severe case of [[Completely Missing the Point]]. Neither the Shadows nor the Vorlons are fighting for dominance, territory or because they like killing people. Sheridan actually says it the best: This whole conflict is like two parents fighting in front of their children, forcing them to decide who is right. The whole genocide thing was largly incidental: The whole premise of the Shadows' philosophy is "You can't make an omlett without breaking some eggs" but they are not [[Omnicidal Maniac
** Another major factor was that they got so wrapped up defending their philosophies that they actually forgot what they were. They had become caricatures of themselves even in their own eyes. When asked their own questions, "who are you?", "what do you want?", neither side had an answer. It's like if the child instead asked Cheney WHY the US should invade Iraq and he suddenly realized he had no idea.
** I think that the point has been missed: neither the Shadows, nor the Vorlons were fighting for territory or dominance. They were fighting, in a very real sense for the younger races. If the younger races walked away from them, what's the point? There is no longer anyone to influence. The original purpose of the Shadows and Vorlons was to educate, and bring forth the younger races. Killing, or driving them away from your ideology counts as failure.
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** Incidentally, the idea of Babylon 5 being a neutral place was always more of a politely ignored falsehood, given that Babylon 5 was built by the Earthers, operated by the Earthers, and was in fact a major Earth Force military base and de facto colony, conveniently located near all the other races' territories (and that's not fanwank or [[Word of God]], that's stated as fact in dialogue). They all signed off on the idea because it was beneficial to them in some way or another to do so and have their representatives on the station. Once the Minbari agreed to it, everybody else probably did just to avoid looking bad. The Narn and Centauri likely signed on just to keep the other from looking more the peacemonger.
* How did Babylon 5 get ''built''? I don't know the exact currency conversion between B5 credits and 2009 dollars, but a space station that size has to cost a ''fuckton'', never mind what it would cost to build and lose four of them. At some point they would have stopped throwing good money after exploded.
** Given the Vorlons' knowledge of what's happened in the past (concerning Babylon 4), it seems likely that they would have encouraged Humanity to build the stations, possibly with the Mimbari adding their support for the project as well. And when an enigmatic but vastly powerful race of Eldritch Horrors and the race of aliens who just kicked your species to the curb without any appearent effort invite you to get together and build a diplomatic tree house, it's hard to say no. WMG here: the Vorlons where also behind the destruction of Babylons one, two and three when they saw that they where not Babylon 4. The Vorlons knew that if one of the first three got fully operational, humanity wouldn't continue on to build the fourth that Vorlons needed to send back in time to win the previous Shadow War.
** It was explicit that Babylons 1-3 were blown up by the Shadows. Sheridan and co.'s time-jacking of B4 prevented the same.
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* What happened to the rings in Delenn's quarters from the Pilot Movie? Upwards of a dozen [[Chekhovs Guns]], and nothing.
** They were considered to be a stupid idea. [[Canon
* Do the Centauri have fangs, or does Peter Jurasik just have very sharp canines naturally? Many Centauri don't seem to have anything special about their teeth, but Londo's canines are very sharp and pronounced, and Vir seems to have something like that, as well, at least in some scenes.
** Centauri are supposed to have sharper canines. The reason Vir only has them in some scenes is that they made him talk with a lisp.
* How do jumpgates work? And I don't mean hyperspace, I mean the gates themselves. Are the four "arms" tethered together or are they free-floating? If they're not tethered, how do they stay together?
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* This isn't specifically about the show itself, but the sheer range in acting talent in this show bugs the hell out of me. On one hand, you have Londo and G'Kar who, especially when acting together, are amazing actors worthy of a big budget movie or something. Then after them you have most of the cast who are regular tv show actors. But then you have people like Garibaldi and Delenn, who really seem out of place in the show. They just can't act anywhere near as well as the others. Garibaldi is okay for the most part but his idea of "angry" or "frustrated" seems to be "I'm talking fast". Delenn's idea of "intense" or "serious" is just "I am whispering". It's fine for a few episodes but then it's like that's all they do, especially in the later episodes. Delenn especially becomes almost laughable. And then there are characters who show up for a relatively large part in one episode played by someone who really looks like they've done one or two school plays before being cast in the part (I'm looking at you, Jinxo). I realise this is a highly subjective IJB but it really has ruined the show for me in some ways.
** Partly budget. Partly casting director issues. Partly bad direction. Partly bad writing. Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) had no acting experience before he was cast, but JMS decided he ''was'' Garibaldi (i.e. the character of Garibaldi is just the actor Jerry Doyle being himself). Mira Furlan (Delenn) has won awards for her acting back in the former Yugoslavia (she's from Croatia). JMS has said that he regrets not giving her more chances to show her chops.
** Delenn's problem is one of character, not acting. She's supposed to be very reserved except for the times when she cracks catastrophically. On the rare occasions when the character needs to show greater range, Furlan delivers to the point that it's painfully obvious she can wipe the floor with most of the rest of the actors. Watch how well she pulls off young Delenn in Atonement. That takes a lot of skill given that she's wearing full face makeup and playing a character a decade (or more) younger than herself. If you want to see Furlan pull off intense, watch her character's death scene in LOST.
*** The character did become laughable towards the end, but again, that's mostly a writing problem. As Furlan was reportedly less than happy with season 5's scripts, in my view it's quite possible she stopped putting her best work forward. There's only so much you can do when your character is transformed from an ''independent'' leader into subservient arm candy.
*** May be justified in universe - Minbari are not humans so they may display emotions differently.
* How come Ulkesh is near impervious to weapon fire in his suit and utterly invincible in his [[One
** 1. The Shadow's are not more advanced then the Vorlons, both races are supposed to be about equal. 2. and this sheer WMG'ing, the Vorlons were essentially an ascended race, who shed there normal bodies and were now made or pure energy, which fit there loftier, more cerebral ideal, where as the Shadow's prefered to be down and dirty, in the action, and so maintained an actual physical form, and were therefor more vulnerable to primitive weapons then the Vorlon's were.
*** It's implied that the Vorlons are fewer in number than the Shadows. They would presumably more greatly value individuals and devote more technology to personal defense. It is also possible that the Shadows have a caste system not unlike social insects, with the ones we see being among a numerous but expendable and therefore not that well defended group of soldiers/workers. In the case of Kosh, the Shadows came prepared for assassination, so presumably brought the necessary tools for the job.
*** The two races seem to take different approaches: the Vorlons relying more on raw power and the Shadows more on stealth. This would make the latter more vulnerable ''if'' an enemy can find them.
** When Ulkesh emerged from his suit, why didn't look like an angel?
*** Because the angel image was just part of how the Vorlons had been manipulating the younger races into seeing them as god-like figures. Hence, in 'The Fall Of Night', Kosh emerges from his encounter suit and every race sees a different angelic being who is part of their own culture's religious tradition (and Londo sees nothing). The Vorlons actually look like we saw in 'Falling Toward Apotheosis', when Ulkesh emerges from his suit and Kosh emerges from Sheridan to do battle.
**** And Kosh had needed to rest after being seen by so many, implying that it was an illusion the Vorlons had to consciously maintain, probably through telepathy.
** Shadows are '''older''' than Vorlons, but that's not the same thing.
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* Even though he wasn't in his right mind for most of season four, Garibaldi raised a valid point about Sheridan getting too big for his britches after returning from Z'ha'dum. Why was he never called on it by anyone else, and/or why did he never have a moment when he realised he may have gone overboard at times? Are we supposed to believe he really ''is'' a demigod?
** Most of the other heroes bought into Sheridan's demigod act, to varying degrees. [[Word of God]] says Garibaldi was absolutely right, but he was making enough of an ass of himself in other ways that no one listened to him. [[Cassandra Truth]] characters were a major theme in Babylon 5. (Think of G'Kar.)
** Part of what Lorien taught Sheridan was to free himself from doubt and fear and simply BE, he was trying to hide it for a while until Delenn called him on it and stated he needed to finally just let himself BE and not worry about what the others might think. And Franklin does say that the old Sheridan never would have used the telepath's altered by the Shadows like the changed Sheridan did.
* In 'Severed Dreams', when Delenn breaks the Grey Council, five of the nine members follow her out. That means she had convinced a majority. So why break the Council instead of winning a vote and thus compelling the warriors to go along with the decision?
** Because (as discussed further up this very page), Delenn was so very fond of prophecy and making sure it was fulfilled ... and the prophecy said that the council would be broken. Given that the prophecy was made by Sinclair who went back in time and made it based on the events he had actually seen, it could probably be defined as a perfectly self-fulfilling one.
** Because it was too late, she'd already broken the Council because they'd already voted and refused to do anything, she shamed them into action afterward. She walked in, told them off, broke their symbol of leadership and told whomever would listen to get off their asses and come with her to do something about the Shadows, she just happened to get lucky and have a majority of them go with her.
* What the hell are all these random races thinking when they threaten to blow up B5 for whatever reason? It's the equivalent of, say, Bangladesh or Ecuador threatening to blow up the UN HQ when it's in session. If you kill a dozen people from every 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rate power in the known universe, things will end badly for your nation.
** JMS is very, very unclear on the concept that killing national dignitaries or raiding sovereign territory is an act of war. What the Minbari ''did'' (as in destroy the EA fleet, not going to the end goal of wiping out humanity) to EA in retaliation for EA killing Dukhat was treated as an aberration when it's actually a historically justified response. Any of the attempts various raiders made against B5 should have been met with an unholy beatdown by EA or the ISA.
** As far as I remember, only three such occasions took place. Dudes who tried to claim Epsilon 3, the explosive probe that demanded answers to a lot of questions, and the fleet of Red Helmets (most likely nomads or pirates), all of them of completely unknown origins. Given how vast and obviously under-explored the galaxy is, it's not so surprising.
*** You forgot at least one, {{spoiler|When the Centauri ship attacked them for sheltering the Narn cruiser. The Centauri were obviously more powerful than most attackers, but even they should of been concerned about retaliation from the Minbari and Vorlons.}}
** Now that you mention it, why {{spoiler|do Earth Force blow it up when they are done? The base had already been stripped, and the only reason given for them to destroy it is to stop it being "a danger to navigation" which is patently ridiculous, since navigation in [[Jump Space]] is completely unaffected by a space station in real space, and the station was intentionally built far away from any occupied planet to make it more easily defensible.}}
**** Maybe they looked in the history books at the old [
*** In fact, why doesn't {{spoiler|Garibaldi}} buy it {{spoiler|when it is due to be decommissioned?}}
** {{spoiler|Not enough money? He didn't care that much about the station?}}
** I would not be surprised if President Delenn leaned on EF to get rid of it for her own reasons. She would have motives to get rid of the station, both so it wouldn't serve to remind her of Sheridan and so it wouldn't serve as reminder to her of the hell she went through (tortured, held hostage, stabbed, nearly killed by Kosh, threatened with rape) when she lived there.
* Why did JMS need to make bitchy little digs at ''Star Trek'' in interviews and even on the show? Didn't he think B5 could sell itself without trying to drum up some ridiculous feud? Thankfully, Trek's writers didn't take the bait.
** It wasn't "bitchy" at
*** "This isn't some deep-space franchise, this station is about something!" Sounds catty to me. JMS also compiled a list of supposed similarities between the
*** And even then, it's not like he wasn't entitled to a few "bitchy little digs" at Trek. JMS originally tried to sell ''Babylon 5'' to Paramount as early as 1989 and they turned him down. Then lo and behold, just after Warner Bros. announced that they would be producing B5 instead, Paramount announced the development of a stunningly similar series known as ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'' and that it would be airing mere weeks before the debut of ''Babylon 5''. Even the most irrational man could be forgiven for thinking that Paramount had plagiarized JMS' original concept.
** That line was actually written by Peter David, too. He didn't seriously think they'd use it.
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**** From what I've seen JMS was getting annoyed at how people kept compairing B5 to Star Trek when they're nothing alike and critisising him for doing things differently. It seemed a sensitive area to him because 'you can't do things that way because Star Trek did them This way instead' really is a stupid argument to make and he'd get sick of it real fast.
* The Minbari are complete hypocritical assholes, but this is rarely mentioned in the show. There are humans who hate the Minbari, but these people are usually portrayed as ignorant racists and crazy nationalists and so on. The Minbari declared war on an entire species and ''pushed them to the brink of extinction'' based on the deaths of a few Minbari (granted, one of them was like Jesus and Ghandi rolled into one) in a situation that was their fault in the first place, and yet anyone who automatically distrusts them or is otherwise resentful is seen as being a bigot. This is made *worse* by the Minbari attitude towards Sheridan "Starkiller". He took out *one Minbari ship* (which was basically one of the only Minbari ship that went down during the war) using a tactic that the Minbari themselves were openly using, and suddenly he's like some super dishonourable satan I'm fully aware that B5 isn't a show that likes to shove things in your face, that it lets us notice these things for ourselves rather than having characters repeatedly point it out, but ''damn''. These ideas are barely touched upon, kinda like the idea posted above that Delenn does basically nothing to earn forgiveness for starting the war in the first place. It's like they're space elves and we're supposed to just assume that they're good now.
** Saving the universe doesn't earn ''some'' forgiveness for a grief stricken girl being manipulated by others?
*** ''Forgiveness'' doesn't get earned anyway. If it is earned it is not forgiveness but simply reparation. I have done lots of things that did not "earn" forgiveness, and I don't even have the power or the strains of a space princess and if anyone else thinks they haven't also done lots of things that did not "earn" forgiveness that they have a remarkably over high opinion of themselves.
*** What in the world does a ''few'' Minbari mean? It is a common and rather barbaric meme that killing an equal number of random members of a rival tribe is somehow a more proportionate type of retribution. At best killing random people is a way of intimidating threats in which case it is not retribution but survival that is the point. If done simply out of anger it is always disproportionate and it is only retribution on the assumption that the guilty party cares.
** I've always assumed that people don't call the Minbari out on their crap because they are aware the Minbari would be obligated to kill them. They already know Minbari are big on [[Disproportionate Retribution]].
*** This would also explain their first contact protocols. No one ever told them that pointing guns at strangers was stupid because if they did, they would consider it an insult to their honor and they'd kill the person who dared try to teach them something.
**** Pointing guns at strangers is stupid, yes. But keep in mind that humanity has assembled a staggering amount of equally stupid military traditions along the way. Ships would fire their cannons into the sea, showing trust and a lack of hostile intent because it partially disarmed the ship. You can easily see how such a gesture could be misinterpreted by a nervous captain who shouldn't even be there and who was described in-universe as a "loose cannon." The strange thing though is how humans only a 2 decades later and employed on a military installation would've forgotten about the thing that nearly brought their race to extinction.
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**** Unless you count stranding them in a star system with an unstable star.
***** You're assuming they knew the sun was unstable beforehand. You're also assuming they prevented the Dilgar from evacuating their system and resettling in another once it became clear their sun was about to go nova. As far as I know there is no evidence the humans did anything to prevent the Dilgar from ''peacefully'' resettling their species in another unoccupied star system. (Admittedly the other races victimized by the Dilgar might have done this, but the point is the ''humans'' most likely did not.) Also, FWIW [[The Other Wiki]] has a blurb saying a civilian colony of Dilgars survived the cataclysm, though it is unsourced for the moment. And again, the point is that while humans do have their flaws, they are at least ''trying'' to correct them. Humanity does have its bigots, but those beliefs are not universal among humans (it may not even be the majority), and the non-bigotted humans have no problem loudly speaking out against them. Other races try to sweep their bigots under the rug (like the Minbari) or outright embrace their bigots (like the Centauri, the Narn, the Drazi, and pretty much all the other races). Humanity does have its struggles with corrupt and totalitarian government, but may I remind you that humanity was deeply divided about Clark's regime and they fought a very bloody civil war to overthrow him because they knew his regime was evil and wrong. Most of the other races don't even seem to care about corruption or totalitarianism in their species' government. Londo didn't decide to assassinate Cartagia because he thought Cartagia's regime was evil or he felt bad about persecuting the Narns. He did it because he was afraid Cartagia's insanity would cause the destruction of Centauri Prime. Delenn admittedly did try to fix the Minbari government when the warrior caste got out of control, but only because they posed a direct threat to her as a member of the religious caste. And even then, she still sat idly by for ''years'' as the tension built up between the castes. Ironically, it seems that of all the non-human races, the one that comes off looking the best are the Pak'ma'ra. You never hear about any Pak'ma'ra atrocities or corruption in the Pak'ma'ra government. You never hear of the Pak'ma'ra posing a threat to anyone or acting aggressively toward other species.
**** Interestingly Sheridan Starkiller would ordinarily be considered dishonorable by the ''human'' customs of war. The fact that the Minbari had superior technology is irrelevant; otherwise the underdog can do anything he wants simply because he is the underdog. However the better justification was what the Earthforce propagandist pointed out at the celebration honoring Sheridan; the Minbari could hardly expect to interpret it as a plea for mercy as no mercy was being given and in fact it was intended to be an "invitation" to shoot up live pods for the fun of it.
*** In many ways it is the Minbari that come off best. The fault of [[Disproportionate Retribution]] is one they share with the Narn and Centauri and humans, but at least the Minbari stopped themselves. Furthermore they were the main contributers to holding off the shadows which buys quite a bit back in the karma department.
**** The fact that they were willing to go so far at all puts them pretty far down the hole towards the [[Moral Event Horizon]] (not quite all the way, mind you, but pretty far). The other races may engage in [[Disproportionate Retribution]] from time to time, but few if any of them deliberately attempted to exterminate a sentient race. Saying they come off "best" because they stopped just short of wiping out an entire species after killing untold millions would be like calling Adolf Hitler "best" if he had changed his mind about wiping out the Jews after killing 90% of them.
**** All the wars in B5 tend to be wars of extermination. The other races do not just engage in [[Disproportionate Retribution]] from "time to time"; they did so regularly. The humans exterminated the Dilgar and the Narns and Centauri both made pretty obvious their desire to exterminate each other. There is no reason why failed extermination is more righteous then changing ones mind about doing so. In any case, the Minbari bypassed many of the human colonies and never destroyed Earth so 90% would be inaccurate whatever their intentions.
*** What bugged me about the Minbari is why the Warrior caste seems to think so much of themselves? They stayed out of the whole shadow war. They are quite happy to bluster when it is just annoying but they won't come to bat when they are really needed.
*** Actually I suspecta lot of the problem people seem to have with the Minbari is that they are a subversion. We ''expect'' them to behave better because they are so cultured and aesthetically attractive. Neither of those things really make for virtue unless someone goes out of their way to encourage it. And thus some are disappointed even when that doesn't happen. The fact is that humans, minbari, centauri, and narn all have good qualities and bad and all have individuals with good qualities and bad. That is really kind of the point. We are shown flawed individuals, even flawed races that yet do noble deeds.
**** Well yeah, of course we expect them to behave better. Because ''they constantly portray themselves as better than everyone else''. They consider themselves the most advanced and enlightened race outside of the Vorlons. If they're unwilling to live up to their own self-constructed reputation, then they need to drop the self-righteous attitude.
**** Be that as it may the Minbari are in fact given the most sympathy in-verse whatever ones actual judgement of them would be if they existed in [[Real Life]]. So saying they come off best is perfectly legitimate; in-verse they certainly do. Assuredly it is not a "pro-human" message as was claimed several entries earlier. Humans come off quite poorly by the show's implications.
** The Minbari are hypicritical assholes, yes, they are. So are ALL of the other races. They just seem more because they get so much more screen time and don't live up to their own hype. Much fo what we are told about Minbari comes from Delenn, who Lennier admitts doesn't see the Minbari as they truely are but how they aspire to be, and are teaching passed down by Valen.
* Speaking of humans, the ascended human is shown entering a Vorlon-like encounter suit. But if I'm not mistaken the sole reason Vorlons needed the suits in the first place was because they tinkered with minds of Young Races so that everybody would see their true form as angels. Are we to assume that nobody learned their lesson, and after their ascension humans became the same condescending, authoritarian and manipulative assholes the Vorlons were? If that's not the case what did he need the suit for if he was perfectly ably to walk/talk/operate computers without it? Was the human form a kind of astral projection?
** Knowing humans, probably no one did learn their lesson, and implying this is not the worst theme for an epic. And humans have always been condescending and authoritarian assholes themselves. But there are more benign ways of helping Younger Races besides manipulating their minds and conceivably humans did that.
** Kosh once said that the very act of being seen by other people was "draining" for him. That could be the reason.
** There may be other uses/roles for the encounter suits. And maybe yes, the future humans do become like the Vorlons and repeat their mistakes. The viewer is left to speculate as he or she will.
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** Maybe her speech reminded them they have a score to settle with the Vorlons ("You wanted to shepherd the younger races, but now you need our help to deal with the Shadows? IN YOUR FACE VORLONS!").
** It's also possible (work with me here, we're talking about unspeakably ancient ''aliens'' after all) that they were just amused or impressed enough by Ivanova's moxie to agree partly based simply on ''that'', whether they saw right through her attempt or not.
** [[Secret Test of Character]] I sense here. Any loser can go and ask for help. Do you have enough trust in your cause and enough guts to stand for it, not to mention enough wits to find the right lever quickly? Now, that's a real question. [[Fridge Brilliance|Remember]], almost the exact same thing happend between Sheridan and Kosh. Surely, Kosh could've knocked Sheridan off without killing him and walk away, but he understood that Sheridan was "ready" and honored his request.
** A race of ageless aliens would logically be capable of holding very large grudges for a very long time. It's easy (usually) for humans to eventually forgive each other for past sins, no matter how huge, because we only live so long. Eventually it gets to the point when we realize that we have better things to do with the short time we have left. Or the original reason for the grudge is forgotten over time and future generations decide to just let it drop. If humans were able to live forever, we wouldn't forgive nearly as much or as quickly.
** Maybe they tried to get [[
* Can someone explain why Londo and Delenn have such pronounced accents when none of the other Centauri or Minbari do?
** [[Word of God]] says that Londo and Delenn learned English at a later age than others, and [[Wild Mass Guessing]] on my part thinks that maybe they adopted the accent of whoever taught them English. For me, anecdotal evidence says this is [[Truth in Television]], as I've met a fair number of Indians who speak English with a British accent, and a few Indonesians who speak it with a noticeable Australian accent; a former work colleague of mine from China said his English teacher was American, and he did in fact speak English with a Midwestern American accent. JMS has also said that a [[Translation Convention]] frequently applies, particularly when we see groups of Centauri or groups of Minbari talking amongst themselves, so the whole accent debate becomes somewhat moot in those cases.
** Also, in Delenn's case, it's closer to [[Real Life Writes the Plot]] (sorta): English is Mira Furlan's second language, and she speaks with a Croatian accent. The production team ''could'' have made everyone playing a Minbari mimic her accent, but...naaah.
** I don't think an entire race would have one unique accent, not only over a planet, but across multiple ones? It actually had depth to the story and the character, imo.
*** The accent was great. The writer wanted a charismatic space princess for whom men would die with a smile. Mira Furlan sounded like a princess, and acted like a princess and the accent meshed with that perfectly. If you met someone at random like Delenn you would not later be surprised to learn that she was a revered priestess; that she was a powerful political figure who could stop or start wars with a word; that she could make people be willing to forgive her and die for her even after she was partly responsible for their friends death; and that she was descended from her people's greatest hero. When she walks in the room you think,"Dude, that's some lady." By contrast, in [[Star Wars]], when Leia walked in the room you think,"That's a sassy little girl."
* Why don't [[PP Gs]] have trigger guards?
** Military equipment supplied by the lowest bidder, who had shaved a couple of million credits off the bulk construction costs by doing without a little bit of plastic (remember those business stories about companies who save millions by putting one olive less in each jar), and approved by execs and comittees that will never actually handle one in their lives. Not like that ever happened in [[Real Life]] though...
** Except this isn't like a contractor cutting corners here and there and hoping no one notices. A trigger guard is a ''major safety feature'' on a firearm. You simply DO NOT build a firearm without a trigger guard. Ever. It would be like building a car without headlights. Any real-life military that opened a case full of guns and found the company had forgotten to include trigger guards would have sent them back ''immediately'' for a full refund.
*** They might not ''need'' trigger guards. Modern weapon companies are trying to make guns that can only be fired by a certain person. Maybe PPGs can only be fired if held correctly too?
*** If I understand you right, I think you're talking about guns that can scan the fingerprints of the person holding it or something. While this is a neat idea in a technical sense, it doesn't jibe with scenes where characters use PPGs they just picked up off the ground. Like the episode where Sheridan is framed for murdering a Minbari warrior; he lost his PPG, then finds another one just lying around. (And it's a bad idea for a military organization because if you do lose your personal weapon you're completely screwed because no other weapon will work for you.) A weapon that can't be fired if it's not "held correctly" doesn't work either IMO. The reason trigger guards exist is so the trigger ''absolutely cannot'' be pulled by accident, such as by dropping the gun. While you could build a PPG that can't be fired unless you hold down a safety button or something, it's still not as safe as a trigger guard. The safety button could get stuck down for one. And if the safety button breaks the gun is rendered useless. Really a trigger guard is a better idea. It's safer, simpler, and less likely to fail.
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*** The comment above the one you are replying to said just that: "The reason trigger guards exist is so the trigger ''absolutely cannot'' be pulled by accident, such as by dropping the gun." Also, it turns out that hand-grip safeties are not a new thing (The M1911 .45ACP handgun has such a device, called a "Backstrap Safety"), but they evidently fell out of style in favor of the thumb-switch safeties. But yeah, the most likely reason for the lack of a trigger guard is that it [[Rule of Cool|looks cooler that way]], or just that the prop designers never gave any serious thought as to why trigger guards are nearly universal on firearms in [[Real Life]].
* Do the pak'ma'ra, the race that won't eat anything that hasn't been rotting for 5 days, really have a dish that's identical to Swedish meatballs/breen?
** They told Dr. Franklin that they could only eat stuff mentioned on this list of 5,000 things, as shown by projectile-vomiting the medicine he gave one. Maybe their planet has some strange organism that decays into Swedish Meatballs?
*** My idea is that they prepare Swedish Meatballs, then leave them out in the open for a few days. So the recipe exists, they just don't eat it when other people would eat it.
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* Why in the world did the Minbari have to ''surrender''? Most people when they decide not to destroy their enemy simply pull back and make peace. Bismark wanted Austria as a future ally but he didn't think that meant he had to surrender to it.
** Because the Minbari didn't surrender for military reasons. They surrendered because {{spoiler|they'd just discovered that humans had Minbari souls, and they were violating one of their highest tenets: "Minbari don't kill Minbari."}} This also caused them to realize that they'd been trying to exterminate an entire race in a fit of blood rage. It wasn't just surrender. It was ''penance''.
* Am I the only one who thinks the Rangers were overhyped? They were a nice touch but the writer could have been more economical about it. And rangers is just to obvious a [[Shout
** The Rangers only ever made up a small part of the forces used by the Army of Light, and in fact their failure to keep the peace in the fifth season was due in part to them not having the numbers or firepower to intervene in standoffs due to being too spread out trying to be the [[Space Police]] (and due to Garibaldi evidently not being a good delegator, making himself a single point-of-failure in Sheridan's whole plan to coordinate the Rangers' movements to allow them to keep the peace between the Centauri and everybody else.) That said, the name is common enough in English throughout [[Real Life]] history, many pre-dating ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'' (Both British and American forces had Rangers, sort of proto-Special Ops forces expereinced in wilderness warfare and marksmanship, and later on you had the Texas Rangers in the 19th century and the US Army Rangers in [[World War II]].) Most likely it just became the human name because it was a good word to describe what they did.
* Honestly I thought G'kar was a boor. He never dreamed of being sorry for the things ''his'' people had done or even thought that others might think of him the way he thought of the Centauri. He got better later, but still he was remarkably self-righteous. And the "cybernetic eye peeping tom incident" was a discordant note to the climax of a great romance besides being perverted and stupid. What if the House of Mir had found out? Does he really want to provoke a blood-feud with a race that has ''valets'' that can lift up great human warriors with one hand?
** The cyber-peeping was intended purely as a joke. I agree that it was stupid and perverted and should never have happened, but we weren't supposed to take it seriously. As for G'kar never apologizing for his own people, well, even towards the end of the series his people didn't really have much to apologize for. Whatever bad things the Narn may have done in the past was far outweighed by the things the Centauri or even the Minbari had done. Given that, IMO it would be unreasonable to expect G'kar to apologize for his species first.
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** Alternatively Kosh wasn't hurt at all and was merely testing Sinclair.
** [[Word of God]] sez: "Remember, they do have a certain physicality about them, even in that form, and the nature of the poison was such that it would affect that kind of life form using a crystalline base (note in the pilot the screen reads analyzing crystalline structure, and you filter light or refract or distort it using a crystalline structure). "[http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/070.html (ref)]
* Not necessarily a JBM: because I don't claim it to be bad writing, just not to my taste. Why couldn't the humans have been given a better showing in the Earth-Minbari war? It's rather embarrassing.
** I think they needed it to be that way. It had to be clear that the Minbari ''could'' have mopped the floor with humanity and exterminated the entire species, but they pulled back and surrendered when they were right at the cusp of victory for (from the humans' perspective) no apparent reason. It creates an air of mystery. Why ''did'' the Minbari pull back when they could have wiped the humans out? And why did they unilaterally surrender rather than just stop fighting and go home? Considering how integral that answer was to the plots of later episodes, that's just the way it had to be.
** The humans had to do so badly so that they could grow during the series. The Minbari needed to be so advanced so that they could actually fight the Shadows and have a chance at winning. It set up two plot points at the same time, in fact Earth getting so badly beaten sets up the Earth mindset for the entire series.
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* The whole structure of Season 4 bugs me. The whole show thus far had been hyping up the return of the Shadows as the central paradigm, gradually building towards that climactic confrontation. Then both the Shadows and the Vorlons are unceremoniously booted out of the show 6 episodes into Season 4, and the rest of the Season centers on Sheridan's war with Clark, an ill-defined antagonist who's had virtually no screen time and has never thus far been heralded as anything other than a sideshow to the Shadow conflict. Don't get me wrong, there's some great drama going on in the Clark arc, but it seems to me that JMS placed the emphasis on the wrong part of the story. After Sheridan and Delenn end an aeons-long cycle of conflict that encompasses dozens of civilizations throughout the galaxy, a single civilization's one brief civil war against a random mad dictator makes for a pretty underwhelming encore.
** When they began filming season 4, it looked pretty clear to most of the cast and crew that they weren't going to get a season 5 (which JMS had wanted from the beginning). So instead they had to wrap up the Shadow War arc and move into the battle against Clark arc as quickly as possible in order to wrap everything up, which I think most agree they did a good job with despite the rush. The original plan for Season 4 was to have much more of the Shadow War, and then Seaon 5 would be Clark. This also explains the somewhat lackluster Season 5 that was actually got: while some of it was planned out, most of what JMS had intended to write for it, had already been wrapped up.
** I understand that, but it's not quite what I meant. What bothers me is, why put the Clark arc ''after'' the Shadow War at all? It just seems to me like the wrong order to do things in. If Babylon 5's plot was created as a series long [[Myth Arc]] in the first place, why not put the conflict with the largest scope and furthest reaching ramifications last, as the climax? As it stands now, everything after the Shadow War feels like an extended epilogue.
** Well there is something to be said for bucking the trend. Putting the Clark arc first and the Shadow War second is what any other series would have done. But more to the point, I think they may have written themselves into a corner. The build-up to the Shadow War was the main focus of the story at that point with Clark as a long-running b-plot. Derailing the a-plot in the middle to suddenly focus on the b-plot would have seemed weird IMO. So they were pretty much stuck with things the way they were.
** Hey, it worked for ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. They had to deal with the main crisis of the series, and then it was time for the Scouring of the Earth Alliance. And the Centauri, when it turned out they had some more time to burn with the [[Post Script Season]].
** Also, consider the first outline for the series, back in the late 80's. In that story, Sinclair never got replaced by Sheridan (as B5's commander and as Delenn's love interest), while Sakai served as that story's Anna Sheridan. In the few final episodes, the Shadows attack B5, destroying it and killing Garibaldi; Sinclair and Delenn escape and eventually end the Shadow War. 20 years later, the surviving B5 crew then go back in time and steal B4; Sinclair goes back in time even further, a thousand years, become Valen and fight yet another Shadow War; also, the going back in time "saves" Sinclair from the effect of his death at Zha'Dum, giving him a second (or rather third) lease on life. So, in that outline, the whole show concluded on a Shadow-related note.
** They needed to get rid of the Shadows first. Clark was aligned with them, if they chose him as the first target he'd have Shadow support and the Vorlons and Shadows would go right on destroying entire planets. If you recall the Vorlons were about to destroy Centauri Prime right as the final battle was taking place and only stopped because their ships were called to the battle as reinforcements. So if they'd gone after Clark first the Centauri homeworld would have been destroyed, and other major races likely would have followed. The Minbari were tachnically aligned with the Vorlons so Minbar might have been the Shadow's next target. So the Shadows and Vorlons were not only the most pressing threat but also a major support line for Clark, the story makes far more sense doing it the way they did.
* Why didn't we ever get to see a Minbari get drunk and fly into a homicidal rage?
** [[You Bastard]].
** What would be the point? It would be violence for the sake of violence which is a waste of time, and time use is important on a show.
* I keep seeing on various TV Tropes pages about how Garibaldi had a point in season 4 about how Sheridan was getting out of control. Even an alleged quote from JMS saying Garibaldi was "exactly right" in what he said about Sheridan. My question though is...where the flying fuck is any of this coming from? Exactly what was Garibaldi "right" about? He was wrong about Sheridan having a god complex. At no point do we see Sheridan demanding tribute or worship or handing out blessings to a cult of followers. He was wrong about Sheridan building up a "cult of personality". None of the traditional signs of a cult of personality were present on Babylon 5 during any part of season 4. So I ask you: Where is there any evidence that Garibaldi's criticisms, however irrational, had even a shred of a kernel of an iota of truth to back them up?
** He made many decisions without consulting anyone. He put plans into action that could easily backfire and go against the morals of his crew. His justification most of the way? Trust me. Sheridan may not have had the god complex or the cult of personality, but he was dangerously close. Maybe if we'd gotten more coverage on it, it would be more obvious.
*** Of course he did all those things. ''He's the commanding officer of B5.'' Making decisions independently even when they may backfire is the whole point of the job. And the whole point of being part of a crew is following the orders of the Captain, even when you disagree with those orders. I'm sorry but I'm still not seeing how Garibaldi was "exactly right" about anything.
* The show makes a big deal of the fact that weapons aren't allowed on the station except for authorized personnel (station security, Psi-Cops, etc.). Apparently not even self-defense is enough for an exception, which is why Londo had to keep a hidden weapon disassembled in his quarters in "Midnight on the Firing Line". Garibaldi also has a scene in "The Parliament of Dreams" where he confiscates a knife from a Drazi missionary even though it was for a religious ceremony. So how is it that Ta'Lon can walk around ''in public'' with a three foot sword strapped to his back?
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*** In one of the Babylon Five RPGs (I know, probably not canon, but bear with me), you could have a firearm on board as long as you registered it (so if you tried to use it on someone, you could get tracked down). I'm guessing it's not that weapons are completely banned, but anyone with an unregistered weapon can get into a lot of trouble. It takes time to get through customs and will flat out be confiscated if they aren't declared ahead of time. Ta'lon I'm guessing got special dispensation from G'kar. Mollari's weapon was unregistered and could not be directly linked to him.
*** Okay, fair enough. But they could have made that a lot clearer in the show itself.
*** Ta'Lon first arrives on the station as a bodyguard for the [[The Quisling|new Narn Ambassador]], so he presumably had permission as a diplomatic security official. Also, he's [[Fire
* In ''Fall of Night'', Babylon 5 gets into a battle with a Centauri battlecruiser. Once Sheridan commits to fighting for keeps, rather than just trying to defend the station from incoming fire, the fight is [[Curb Stomp Battle|spectacularly brief]] thanks to [[Red Baron|Firestorm]] [[Four
** They were there to confiscate a Narn battlecruiser. Maybe they expected the humans to turn the Narn ship over to them without a fight, so they sent an under-armed ship. They just weren't counting on Sheridan being, y'know, not a backstabbing puss-bucket.
*** Makes sense. They might have even had fighters aboard, but due to their presumption that Sheridan would hand the cruiser over (what with the impending treaty between Earth and Centauri Prime), they didn't have them prepped for launch. The Centauri got caught flat-footed because they did not expect Sheridan to dig his heels in over the issue, and the fight was lost before they could launch any fighters.
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