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Black and Gray Morality: Difference between revisions
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* ''[[Hellsing]]'', where the protagonists include a viciously [[Heroic Sociopath|sociopathic]] super-vampire and the master who has to sanction his actions. On the other side you have [[Knight Templar]] [[Church Militant|Church Militants]] and a Nazi remnant organisation who employs baby-eating synthetic vampires, would-be rapists and have as a leader someone who wants to plunge the world into war and destruction [[For the Evulz]]. Seras is the only main character that might truly qualify for "white" status.
* ''[[Baccano]]'', just about every character is criminal of some sort, ranging from petty thief/delinquent to Mafia assassin. The protagonists just happen to be nicer about it, usually with ''some'' sort of moral code.
** Even Isaac and Miria, who are the most innocent and purehearted ones of the lot, are robbers wanted by the FBI.
* Many of the Shinigami from ''[[Bleach]]'' are [[Good Is Not Nice|not terribly nice people]], and they have done some not terribly nice things, including the employment of psychotic killers and have looked the other way on at least one instance of genocide. So how are these people ([[Conspiracy Redemption|eventually]]) on the same side as the heroes? Because they do it in order to keep the world from ending, and because the other team wants to ''eat your soul''.
** {{spoiler|Tosen, on the other hand, got fed up and left, believing Aizen to be an anti-villain who would implement a place better than the "worst heaven ever" that currently exists.}}
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**** The Vandenreich arc fits in here somewhere. The {{spoiler|Quincies are justified in wanting revenge on the shinigami, but their methods and intentional disruption with the balance cause them to be placed here. If it wasn't for the fact that they apparently didn't try to negotiate with the shinigami they would be still evil but [[But Not Too Evil|not too evil]]. However the shinigami did attempt genocide [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|albeit with noble intent]] and were thought to have pretty much succeeded until the Vandenreich appeared as that would have left only Uryu and Ryuken left.}} Again were it not for the threat they present/have presented to the world and their disregard of the damage their doing the conflict would fall more towards the [[Grey and Grey Morality]] side of things.
* The members of [[Ghost in the Shell|Section 9]] rarely show any reservations about using theft, murder, blackmail, and invading peoples cybernetic brains, all outside of legal regulations. But they are mostly good people at heart and often save lots of innocent people from harm, while the antagonists can be found at any points on the scale of blackness.
* ''[[Black Butler]]'' tends to fall into this, as while Ceil Phantomhive sometimes qualifies as evil and his predatory demon of a butler is ''always'' evil, they are able to look a lot better by taking down utter psychopaths in the name of the Queen.
** The ambiguous morality is somewhat subverted in the anime, wherein Ciel is much more cynical and less sympathetic as a character than he is in the manga.
* ''[[Slayers]]''. [[Chaotic Neutral|Lina]] thinks mostly in terms of how things can benefit her, and if that means the loss a few lives or a couple of villages wiped off the map, so be it. The others are mostly better about this – Amelia seems to make a conscious effort to think of Lina as being on the side of “justice,” Zelgadis forces himself to live with it, Gourry for the most part couldn't care less, Xellos is evil anyway, and the various other part-time members of the party tend to be against it or ignore it. The villains, on the other hand, are generally out to destroy the world.
** Though Slayers TRY is a case of [[Gray and Grey Morality]], especially because both sides are trying to save their own world.
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* Though the main characters of ''[[Hyakujitsu no Bara|Maiden Rose]]'' never do anything that crosses the [[Moral Event Horizon]], being able to see their motives and redeeming qualities excuses them for quite a bit. We have yet to see more of the antagonists than that they're remorseless and wicked (and [[Evil Is Cool|cool]] and [[Evil Is Sexy|sexy]]).
* ''[[Gungrave]]'' is an excellent example of this, everyone (especially the heroes) are murderers, gangsters and criminals. Despite this, there are very few characters that aren't either innately likeable or worthy of great respect. [[Mafia Princess|Maria Asagi]] and her [[Morality Pet|young daughter Mika]] are probably the only characters who qualify for "white" status.
* Pretty much everyone is [[Ax Crazy]] in ''[[Deadman Wonderland]]''. Whether you're in the 'black' or the 'grey' bit is basically determined by whether you torture anyone. Or take away anesthetic. That's pretty much it. If you give someone painkillers, you're a good guy.
* ''Equation Of The Immortal'' has a [[Instant Awesome, Just Add Ninja|kunoichi]] fighting against a [[Drugs Are Bad|drug-using]] cult with a literal [[Deal with the Devil]]. The fact that she's a ninja is ''not'' the bad thing (she only uses said lethal ninja skills on [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?|demons,]]) its her actual [[Out with a Bang|power]] and willingness/need to use it on any random guy that comes her way that puts her in the gray area.
* The main conflict of ''[[Code Geass]]'', a battle between a [[Social Darwinist]] regime and a tortured young revolutionary fighting for a more peaceful world yet is willing to resort to any necessary means, is very much this initially.
* ''[[Black Lagoon]]''. This show is basically a see-saw battle between [[Noble Demon|evil and selfish]] mercenaries and insanely evil people like [[Creepy Twins|Hansel and Gretel]] who LOVE to kill. While the Lagoon Company kills mostly really bad guys like Nazis, the worst people in this anime are so bloodthirsty they make Revy and Roberta look like Mother Theresa.
** Though Hansel and Gretel are ''so'' broken from early childhood that they likely lack enough moral agency [[Character Alignment|to even be considered "evil"]].
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* Generally a [[Signature Style]] of [[Frank Miller]], especially in ''[[Sin City]]''. All his heroes are fascists, sociopaths or both, but the villains they face are [[Complete Monster|even worse]].
** A special shout-out goes to his interpretation of [[Batman]], which [http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox7/ draws some much-deserved mockery] for making the Dark Knight an absolute psychopath, and celebrating those tendencies.
* Likewise, Garth Ennis' bad guys are usually the epitome of pure psychotic evil, but morally speaking his good guys often aren't anything to write home about either, as they generally tend to be a bunch of murderous sociopaths themselves. His intense dislike of and tendency to savagely parody or mock [[The Cape (trope)|any]] [[The Cape (trope)|generally 'noble' or 'heroic' superhero or otherwise heroic character]] (although he does make some exceptions) doesn't help matters much.
** Unless he's writing [[Superman]].
** In fact, most modern comic writers fall into this category. Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, and Alan Moore just to name a few, often have morally ambigious protagonists.
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* The usual state of being in ''[[Fallen Angel (comics)|Fallen Angel]]'s''. On the "black" side is The Hierarchy, the people and demons who run the city of Bete Noire, where the book takes place. The "gray" comes from Liandra, a cynical, consistently tipsy fallen angel who serves as a court of last resort, and is willing to do anything, including torture, in order to fulfill her missions. Among her sometimes-allies are the city's major drug dealer, the snake from the Garden of Eden, and a man who may or may not be Hitler.
* A very large portion of ''[[Judge Dredd]]'' stories fall into this. Dredd is a straight-up fascist protagonist, after all.
* ''[[300]]'', both the comic and film, have the [[Unreliable Narrator]] describing the Spartans as "the ultimate good guys"... who are just as [[Axe Crazy|insane]] and [[Blood Knight|bloodthirsty]] as their Persian enemies, who are only worse for being a gigantic army bent on destroying and enslaving everyone on their path.
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* ''[[Exoria]]'' has the nation of Valent conducting a surprise invasion of both Hyrule and Gerudo. It is implied through the [[Fictional Document|Exoria Files]], however, that neither Hyrule nor Gerudo are exactly "white", though, and hints have been dropped insinauting that Valent may have a very good reason for launching a continent-wide invasion.
* The New Earth Government from ''[[Aeon Natum Engel]]'' and ''[[Aeon Entelechy Evangelion]]'' is much, much more ruthless than its ''[[Cthulhu Tech]]'' counterpart, and the Migou have a very good reason for invading Earth.
* [[Christian Humber Reloaded]] has this, although which side is black and which is gray depends on whether you're willing to accept the author's perspective that [[Heroic Sociopath|Vash]] is supposed to be a hero. One way of seeing it is that Vash is a highly ruthless yet effective [[Sliding Scale of Anti-Heroes|Type V]] [[Anti-Hero]] who fights against villains who are arguably more consistently malicious, despite killing many innocent people himself. [[Alternative Character Interpretation|Alternatively]], Vash is the [[Villain Protagonist]], and his [[Designated Villain|enemies]] are less of a threat than he is, if only because the story [[Offstage Villainy|doesn' touch on their evil deeds]].
* [[Embers]] has [[Lawful Neutral|Zuko]], who admits he's 'no good at being good,' even in the original series {{spoiler|and is willing to hang Aang out to dry, not to mention that he isn't going to even try to prevent a genocide of his own people because even he admits that they basically deserve it}}. Then there's [[The Hero|Aang]], who is well-intentioned but does a lot of stuff that should have killed him and his friends in the series: [[Hanlon's Razor]] is true because ignorance can do just as much damage, or more, as malice. The closest thing to an unambiguously good guy may be Kuei, who still {{spoiler|ordered the Dai Li to set fires in civilian homes, traps in streets and so on as part of the Ba Sing Se resistance}} because this is war and he's the Earth King. In contrast to them, there's [[Mind Rape|Azula]], who deserves her own content warning, but still has nothing on the [[Big Bad]] and his allies, whose plans constitute a {{spoiler|[[Zombie Apocalypse]]}} and horribly painful deaths in the works for anyone unlucky enough to survive the various genocidal wars they've stirred up over the millennia.
* The Council vs. Ronan in [[Naruto Veangance Revelaitons]]. The latter is a [[Jerk Sue]] who hurts anyone who even looks at him wrong and outlaws everything he doesn't like. The former kills crowds of people in frustration over losing a [[Cooking Duel]], {{spoiler|after taking over Konoha, outlaws everything that Ronan favored, and is willing to destroy the entire world}}.
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* ''Anything'' made by [[Quentin Tarantino]].
** Greatest example being ''[[Inglourious Basterds]]''. One of the "good" guys is Bridget Von Hammersmark, a double agent working for the [[World War Two|Allies]] who kills an unarmed and highly sympathetic German soldier in cold blood to stop her cover being blown ( {{spoiler|unfortunately it is anyway because she forgot [[Too Dumb to Live|she left an autographed napkin at the scene of the crime]]}}). Note that of the major characters in the film she has the ''least'' controversial blood on her hands. You know your film has a morally gray cast when a Jew-murdering Nazi and a Jew who beats Nazis to death with a baseball bat while quoting baseball celebrities are the [[Ensemble Darkhorse|Ensemble Darkhorses]].
* ''[[Killing Zoe]]'' takes place in a world best described as [[Quentin Tarantino|Tarantino]] meets [[Bret Easton Ellis]]. From the co-writer of [[Pulp Fiction]] and director of [[The Rules of Attraction]].
* Any film based on [[The Mafia]], by necessity (this is the Mafia we're talking about, after all). This includes ''[[The Godfather]]'' series, ''[[Goodfellas]]'', ''[[The Departed]]'', etc.
** Under the same lines is the film ''[[City of God]]''.
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{{quote|'''Sirius Black:''' The world is not divided into good people and Death Eaters.}}
* Martha Wells' ''Death of the Necromancer'' has [[Anti-Villain|Nicholas]] [[Aristocrats Are Evil|Valiarde,]] a coldblooded thief, murderer and all around [[Magnificent Bastard]]. Nic has spent years sabotaging his enemy on a [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge]]; at the start of the narrative, Nic's nearing the completion of his [[Xanatos Gambit|ultimate scheme]] when he and his subordinates run afoul of an unknown person using [[Black Magic]]. Somehow, this leads to the group spending the rest of the book fighting an insane mass murderer. And the reason they do it is at least partly because it's ''bad for business.''
* In Frederick Forsyth's ''[[The Day of the Jackal]]'', the OAS are far right terrorists. The eponymous [[Villain Protagonist]] is a consummate [[Professional Killer]]. However, the French Action Service are secret police-like, going to use [[Electric Torture]] on an OAS captive.
* The various races in [[Lord of the Rings]] could be this. Tolkien makes it pretty clear that any of the "good" races, even elves, are capable of evil. But you aren't likely to see a [[Always Chaotic Evil|goblin or ork turning good any time soon]].
* In [[Andrew Vachss]]'s Burke books, Burke and his [[True Companions]] are mostly ex-cons who skirt or break the law frequently. They cross paths with pedophiles and other [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters]] from time to time.
* Near the end of ''[[Good Omens]]'', the forces of Heaven and Hell line up across the sky, and the narrator mentions that if you looked ''very'' closely, and had been specifically trained, you could tell the difference.
* Common in the works of [[China Mieville]]. [[Kraken (novel)|Kraken]], for instance, has a Lovecraftian doomsday cult as one of the ''nicer'' factions.
* By the final book, ''[[The Hunger Games]]'' devolves into this. On one hand you have the Capitol, who among oppressing the majority of their citizens in day-to-day life, force children to kill each other on television each year. On the other hand, the {{spoiler|District 13}} rebels are shown to be inclined to using drastic measures to attain "freedom", and by the end of the novel their leader is shown to be completely corrupt.
* Tadeusz Borowski's Holocaust stories feature the occasional good character, but they don't tend to live long in the atmosphere of the camps. The characters who do survive (at least for a while) are those who're willing to steal from others, to betray each other to the guards, to help in the execution of the Jewish inmates, and even to eat the corpses of their fellow prisoners so as to avoid starvation.
* ''[[Best Served Cold (novel)|Best Served Cold]]''. [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|Way to go, Monza.]] {{spoiler|[[Nice Job Fixing It, Villain|You too, Orzo.]]}}
* ''[[The Acts of Caine]]'' qualifies for this trope, if only due to what the protagonist [[Heroic Sociopath|must]] [[The Unfettered|become]] to stop the antagonists, and how badly the "pure" heroes like Deliann and Pallas Ril manage to [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|fuck things up]].
* The Tribulation Force versus the Global Community (and also God versus Satan) in the ''[[Left Behind]]'' books. Thing is, it's hard to determine which side is black and which side is grey.
* ''[[Gone (novel)]]'' started out having [[Gray and Grey Morality]], but, by ''Plague'', has solidly veered into this. The heroes are still quite far from white, and the bad guys, after a year of enduring even worse [[Nightmare Fuel]] than the protagonists, are now growing increasingly [[The Sociopath|sociopathic]] and [[Kick the Morality Pet|kicking morality pets right and left.]]
* ''Sisterhood'' series by [[Fern Michaels]]: As the series goes on, the morality of the stories turns into this. The good guys are called the Vigilantes because they break the law in capturing a bad guy and inflicting a cruel and unusual punishment on hir. The good guys don't kill anybody, but since their punishments tend to be of the [[Fate Worse Than Death]] variety, that fact may not be very comforting. Also, the good guys have acted like big-time [[Jerkass|Jerkasses]] a number of times. That's okay, because the bad guys have virtually no redeeming qualities to speak of!
* [[Percy Jackson and The Olympians|Help ]] the [[Jerkass Gods|Gods ]] who are often jerkasses and sometimes cause problems, or serve a [[Big Bad|Titan ]] who devoured his own kids and uses humanity as a source of cheap amusement or as a snack.
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* ''[[Mad Men]]''. Due to the nature of the times, the men more so than the women. Most men tend to be lying cheating assholes, and the women either act this way too or they are ''screwed''.
* The work of [[Joss Whedon]]
** Both ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer|Buffy]]'' and ''Angel'' are somewhere between this trope and [[Black and White Morality]] in the sense that while the protagonists usually do the right thing when it's clear what the right thing is and their enemies clearly don't care about doing what's right, the protagonists also have some [[What the Hell, Hero?]] moments and are sometimes thrown into morally gray situations where even they don't agree with each other as to what's the right thing to do.
*** In particular, ''[[Angel]]'' wallows in Black and Grey Morality for its final two seasons. In the fourth season, the characters initially oppose what they perceive to be a [[Cosmic Horror]] intent on bringing about [[The End of the World as We Know It]]; later, it turns out to be a goddess (Jasmine) who would have ended all war, hunger and disease. Admittedly, she did eat people, and paradise would have come [[Knight Templar|at the price of free will]], but the heroes are somewhat in doubt they did the right thing after the evil law firm Wolfram and Hart ends up thanking them. In the fifth season they are actually running Wolfram and Hart; this comes with a lot of questioning whether or not they are doing more harm than good.
*** Also in ''[[Angel]]'', Wesley, who has done some questionable things, is taunted by Lilah during his search for redemption.
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'''Lilah:''' Funny thing about black and white: you mix it together and you get grey. And it doesn't matter how much white you try and put back in, you're never gonna get anything but grey. }}
** In the ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]'' episodes "This Year's Girl" and "Who Are You?" -- as well as the ''[[Angel]]'' episodes "Five by Five" and "Sanctuary" -- Faith, after having spent the last half of the last season on the side of evil, makes a genuine effort to [[Heel Face Turn|redeem herself]] for her crimes. She does this after making a [[Xanatos Gambit]] by trying to kill Angel, punching out Cordelia, and torturing Wesley, all while struggling with the will to live. The Watcher's Concil, though, actively try to kill Faith, Buffy, and the cast of Angel, while leaving each other to die at times, and one of them takes joy in killing people.
** ''[[Firefly]]'' and ''[[Serenity]]'', the protagonists are thieves but usually non-violent except in self-defense; the main antagonist is a corrupt government that tortured an innocent little girl.
** ''[[Dollhouse]]''. The show is all about a business that brainwashes people to act like other people and service the needs and wants of the business' clients (sometimes sex, sometimes other things). Most (but not all) of the brainwashed people "volunteered" for it, so YMMV on wheather or not this is wrong. The business sometimes uses the technology and brainwashed people for clearly good things (rescuing kidnapped people, trying to help an abused child grow up into a healthy adult etc.) and sometimes for clearly bad things (theft, ruining an innocent man's reputation etc.) In any case, they are never as bad as their enemies, which include The Ghost (a child molester) and [[Create Your Own Villain|Alpha]] (a sadist who [[Knife Nut|carves up people's faces with a large knife]] [[For the Evulz]]).
* As ''[[Supernatural (TV series)|Supernatural]]'' is becoming more and more of a [[Crapsack World]] lately, it's only right that they should start to wallow in this too. Dean and John's [[Deal with the Devil|deals with the devil]] are seen more as selfish suicides than [[Heroic Sacrifice|Heroic Sacrifices]], they now kill demons without any thought to the human host, John was a suicidally broken man who fucked up everything, Dean's annoying martyrdom, low self esteem and messed up death wish frustrates the hell out of Sam and Bobby and Sam's willing to destroy everyone and everything that might hurt Dean. After all this, you start to get the impression that becoming evil might look like a much better deal.
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* The British miniseries ''[[Ultraviolet]]''. On one side is a cabal of vampires who plot to enslave humanity in order to save us from ourselves (thus eradicating their food supply). On the other is a shadowy government organization that answers to no one and follows a very end-justifies-the-means kind of program.
* ''[[Heroes (TV series)|Heroes]]'' has most of the many characters with some sort of fatal flaw, but none of them fit this trope more than Bob Bishop. He is introduced at the start of season 2 as a reasonable man, directing a previously villainous company, and trying to steer the way forward to a brighter future for everyone. Although there are subtle hints as to his true motives, he appears to listen to Mohinders advice over the [[Depopulation Bomb|shanti virus]]. However in episode 9 it's revealed that Mohinder and viewers alike [[Horrible Judge of Character|were a little wrong]]. It's made clear he [[Professor Guinea Pig|experimented on his daughter]] leaving her as a [[Psycho Electro|psychopath]]. From then on, none of the characters [[Manipulative Bastard|trust him]].
** In the graphic novels we also find out he's a torturer and murderer. He was also directly involved in the plot to blow up New York city and apparently worked alongside Linderman during this time. He also was the one who had Candice save Sylar from Kirby Plaza
* ''[[Sons of Anarchy]]''. The title biker gang is mostly composed of [[Heroic Sociopath|Heroic Sociopaths]] (except for Tig ([[Psycho for Hire]]), Jax ([[Anti-Hero]] or [[Anti-Villain]] depending on ones viewpoint) and Opie ([[The Woobie]]). The cops are all hopelessly corrupt or psycho except for Hale, the [[Knight in Sour Armor]] and Stahl, the [[Knight Templar]]. And then there are the ''really'' nasty gangs.
* ''[[The Shield]]'', big time. Apart from, at the most, one character (Claudette), everyone in the show is either outright villainous or at least very shady. This includes the apparent "good guys". In fact, the most corrupt and immoral of the supposed "good guys" (as in the police) are the four man Strike Team, whom the protagonist leads and the show revolves around.
** Don't you think that Dutch counts as good as well? The only morally dubious thing he did was {{spoiler|strangle that cat}} and {{spoiler|plant evidence, but he even took that back}}.
* ''[[Dexter]]''. The eponymous character is a serial killer. But, he only kills other killers, most of whom are even worse than him. (Likewise in the novels, as well as the serial killer in Bradley Denton's book "Blackburn", which is similar to Dexter (but earlier: 1993).
* ''[[Battlestar Galactica Reimagined|Battlestar Galactica]]'' skirts this, particularly during the middle of the series, but for the most part is [[Gray and Grey Morality]] instead.
** Uh, no. When one side of the conflict ''starts out'' by killing fifty billion people for no reason, "gray" is pretty much out the window for them.
* ''[[Caprica]]'' is pretty much this. It plays with [[Gray and Grey Morality]] but so far the various players are a fundamentalist monotheistic terrorist group, a racist and corrupt gilded society, a ruthless crime syndicate "family," and a corporate CEO who's willing to enslave another race (albiet one he believes has no free will to begin with) in order to save his personal fortunes.
* Anything involving [[Complete Monster|Marlo Stanfield]] in ''[[The Wire]]'', which eventually results into two mostly good cops faking murders in order to bring him down.
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== Mythology ==
* [[Norse Mythology]] is fittingly this. The head god Odin is demands human sacrifice, practices questionable magic, instigates wars, and is known to turn on his favorites in mid battle ensuring their deaths. However, all this is necessary to make sure he gets great warriors so his army is strong enough to keep the forces of evil from winning at Ragnarok so that a golden age can emerge afterwords. Oh, and he and his entire army don't get to see that golden age. All of his other gray features tend to be to either delay or prepare for that day.
* Many world mythologies were at one time or another this. The gods may be [[Jerkass Gods|jerks]] who screw around with mankind from time to time, but they were almost always far better than the alternative of monsters and demons.
* [[Classical Mythology]] rules this tropes. In contrast to the above, the gods aren't even contrasted with anything particularly terrible, they're just generally dicks who happen to be in charge (Zeus, fittingly, epitomised this, being a violent rapist and [[Magnificent Bastard]] but also powerful enough to defeat all the other gods combined). Well, some were alright - but you never hear about them, because the Greeks generally considered any story that doesn't involve both sides of the conflict being colossal jerks to be one not worth telling.
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* Historically rare in the annals of sports-entertainment (except for some [[Values Dissonance]], such as "all-American" wrestlers [[In the Back|attacking communist Russian wrestlers from behind]] and [[Draco in Leather Pants|getting cheered for it]]) until the "Attitude Era," which occurred roughly between 1995 and 2000. The trend was arguably kicked off by [[Shawn Michaels]], who despite being a weaselly, self-centered, preening [[Jerkass]], was so funny and charming as the leader of the D-Generation X faction that fans cheered for him anyway; it certainly helped that his greatest nemesis, the Canadian [[Bret Hart]], was playing an [[Evil Foreigner]] at this time. But the [[Trope Codifier]] for the ages was undoubtedly [[Stone Cold Steve Austin]], the very epitome of the [[Cool People Rebel Against Authority|rebel-as-people's-hero]]. Though Austin never truly reformed his bullying, obnoxious ways from when he was a heel, his courage and charisma won the respect of [[WWE]] fans far and wide.
* Today, aftershocks of the Attitude Era can still be felt, albeit more in [[TNA]] than in WWE. Perhaps the best examples are "The Viper" [[Randy Orton]], an outright [[Heroic Sociopath]], and "Asshole" Mr. Anderson, basically a modern-day Stone Cold.
== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
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== [[Video Games]] ==
* ''[[Legacy of Kain]]'' is the KING of this trope. Your hero is either a [[Heroic Sociopath]] or an [[Unwitting Pawn]] with a habit of [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|screwing everything up]]. Your villain tends to be a corrupt [[Eldritch Abomination]] that would fit in well with H.P. Lovecraft's horrors and all of his minions. Even the Sarafan Brotherhood, a bunch of priests, were noted by Kain as being ignoble in the opening of Soul Reaver 2. The closest thing you get to something RELATIVELY good is [[Last of His Kind|Janos Audron]].
** To put that in context: Janos Auldron is the last of his kind because they began an unprovoked genocidal war at the command of their god, the aforementioned [[Eldritch Abomination]]. Since he was selected as the Reaver Guardian, made Vorador and the Hylden leader in [[Blood Omen 2]] knew him (or at least of him) back then, he was no lowly conscript; he was probably one of the religious officials giving the orders to commit atrocities. The Ancient version of Moebius: Janos still believes in that same god. Then there's the fact he clearly doesn't give a damn about Vorador's victims & those of other vampires (the Sarafan's motivation), and the fact that even though he believes that vampirism is an unholy damnation, he had no problem doing it to a human. And he ''still'' comes across as relatively saintly and his death makes Raziel go on a [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge]] because fanaticism and sociopathy are the norm in this universe and he's [[The Woobie]].
*** It should be noted that neither Janos nor Moebius realized that the Elder God was just a hungry Eldritch Abomination. He even manages to fool Kain once. The Elder God is [[The Omniscient]] [[Magnificent Bastard]], and pretty much made everyone his [[Unwitting Pawn|Unwitting Pawns]] till Raziel purified Kain and allowed him to see the Elder God. [[spoiler: Moebius himself is forced to see it, [[My God, What Have I Done?|and is quite horrified]]. Janos even admits that to pass on the curse was horrible, but it was necessary to keep the Hylden at bay. Also, while Raziel's main motivation is vengeance, he comes as more sympathetic and troubled guy as the story goes by. He REALIZES he's an [[Unwitting Pawn]] to everyone, especially the guy who created and burned him, Kain, and in the end is {{spoiler|willing to make a sacrifice of the same vein Kain wasn't willing to(sacrifice yourself to save the world), though in Kain's case, killing himself wouldn't have solved anything}}. The plot is complicated, so it's safe to say everyone's got their Freudian Excuse or has been fooled into being what they are.
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* If you ever play ''[[Tactics Ogre]]'' past the first chapter, then you'll see this trope in spades: everyone (including yourself, possibly) commits truly horrific atrocities, yet your home team still somehow ends up gray...
* In ''[[Baldur's Gate|Baldur's Gate 2]]'', only two options are open to the player concerning allies who can help locate your kidnapped childhood friend: One option is to side with a guild of thieves. The other is to side with a guild of vampires. Vampire thieves. And just in case you were wondering: No, these are ''not'' thieves with a heart of gold. Inside their guild-hall you'll witness [[Training From Hell]] with actually lethal results, torture, and worse. Needless to say, this makes roleplaying a [[Knight in Shining Armor|paladin]] in this game an extremely difficult task. This is driven home by the fact that Keldorn Firecam, a Paladin in his own right, will just flat-out leave your party [[Lost Forever|forever]] should you pick the vampires over the Shadow Thieves. (Keldorn isn't happy about working with the Thieves either, but, fortunately, he's very pragmatic for a [[Lawful Good]] sort).
* The ''Tiberium'' series of ''[[Command
** ''[[Command
* In ''Stars!'', ''[[Master of Orion]]'', and many other 4X-style empire building games (whether space, sea, or land), it's generally assumed your race will kill millions of colonists belonging to other races. These are generally portrayed as innocent planetdwellers whose only crime is to be of a different race/faction as you, which makes most of the race leaders mass murderers. Subverted somewhat in the old space trading/combat game ''Warpath'' and ''Warpath 97'' where you could (very slowly) convert even the most unfriendly planets through trade and diplomacy. It was still easier to nuke them from orbit, even if it wasn't the only way to be sure.
** In spite of its happy [[Space Western]] trappings (although you always have a white hat and your opponents more dastardly headgear, even in multiplayer,) ''Spaceward Ho!'' presents an especially chilling example when you think about it. In order to colonize an enemy planet, you destroy all enemy defences, melt them for scrap, kill the entire biosphere, and [[Terraform]] the planet to match your native ecosystem.
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* ''[[Darkstalkers]]'' can tend towards this. Even most of the "good guys" are morally questionable... but the villains are incredibly nasty embodiments of pure malevolence. Oh, and the sweet, innocent-looking little blonde girl resembling Little Red Riding Hood? She's one of the latter.
* ''[[Blaz Blue]]'' features ''very'' few unambiguously good characters.
** On the side of the villains, we have the [[Organization Index|Novis Orbus Librarium, (NOL, the "Library" for short)]], [[The Empire|an oppressive, all-powerful organization]] ruled by the menacing, unseen Imperator. Although the institution itself is gray when it comes to morality (in fact, it's a neccessary case of [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]), and there are good people in it, its enforcers include; [[Big Bad|Hazama/Yuuki Terumi]], a [[Complete Monster]] [[Troll]] who has [[Magnificent Bastard|meticiously planned]], [[The Chessmaster|manitulated others into]], [[Moral Event Horizon|outright caused]], or is in some other way related to almost every single bad thing that has happened in the [[Blaz Blue]] verse, all of it strictly [[For the Evulz]]. Then there's Relius Clover, another [[Complete Monster]] who transformed his innocent wife and daughter into weapons using alchemy. And finally, there's Jin Kisaragi, who's [[Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking|a total]] [[Jerkass|dick]] to everyone he meets and has [[Ax Crazy]] [[Yandere (disambiguation)]] tendencies towards his brother, Ragna. {{spoiler|(He does get better later on and ends up [[Heel Face Turn|siding with the good guys.]], but he's still a [[Good Is Not Nice|dick, but at least he's not a total one anymore]])}}.
** On the side of the heroes, we have the aforementioned [[Anti-Hero|Ragna]] [[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|the Bloodedge]], a ruthless [[One-Man Army]] who's on a quest to take down the NOL and all its personell, [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters]] and [[Punch Clock Villain|Punch Clock Villains]] alike, by any means necessary. And not because of any greater, idealistic purposes, like peace or freedom, either, but simply because Hazama royally fucked up his life. Believe it or not, he's one of the ''less'' ambiguously [[Good Is Not Nice|heroic people in this game]]. Also on the supposed good side, we have Sector Seven, who are also opposed to the NOL, but only as far as '[[Somebody Else's Problem|We're not listening to you]]', and have [[Kick the Dog|kicked many dogs]] in whatever they do. Of particular note are the actions of Kokonoe, who is so crazed in her pursuit of revenge against Terumi, she is fully prepared to {{spoiler|[[Nuke'Em|nuke Kagutsuchi]]}} should her plan to use [[The Woobie|Lambda]] as a vehicle for her revenge go awry. Also helping Ragna is the vampire Rachel Alucard and her butler Valkenhayn R. Hellsing. She had the best intention, but not only she is a bit lazy to take actions (she's not allowed to, but lately, she got better), she's just very haughty and full of disdains, and seemingly no better than Terumi in making nearly everyone pawns for her speed chess with Terumi. Valkenhayn used to be one of the world-saving Heroes, but his utter loyalty to Rachel made him look like a [[Yes-Man]] to her. To note: They're not exactly united greatly.
** So, um, in that case how about [[Taking a Third Option]]? Maybe there's some unaligned people who CAN be accounted to be good. Well, first off there's the bounty hunter Carl Clover, who, deep down is a sweet boy, but thanks to Relius' (his father) atrocity, he has no qualms of murdering you while still acting polite if he wants any information from you. Hakumen is an unflappable [[Badass]] who is damn effective at leaving a trail of pain in his wake, and one of the few who can force ''Relius'' to bail from his mere presence... except he believes the only way to save the world from destruction is to mow down both Ragna and Terumi, and then go burn this world for he thinks it's been too corrupted and the only way is to restart the world anew, [[Knight Templar|and he is not open to alternatives whatsoever]]. Moving on from that, there's Litchi Faye-Ling. She's motherly, caring and compassionate and at least cares for the normal townspeople. But then, this is a case where her [[Love Martyr]]-ism is cruelly manipulated by Hazama to the point that she's right now siding the NOL to save her 'beloved' and herself. Said 'beloved'? Arakune, your resident [[Eldritch Abomination]] who'll eat you if he finds you tasty. And what of his human self that Litchi loved? Lotte Carmine, a glory-seeker, fame-hunting scientist who's just in Sector Seven for his own glory, not helped with his inferiority complex against Kokonoe. There's also Makoto, who is roughly Litchi's equal in terms of [[Blaz Blue]] goodness. She's kind, friendly, caring and compassionate to pretty much everyone, but if you [[Berserk Button|make the mistake of threatening her friends]], she'll [[Beware the Nice Ones|hunt you down and]] [[Good Is Not Soft|pound you into hamburger]]. Also, [[Chronic Backstabbing Disorder]] is game for her, if it'll lead to that. So yeah, I think your only hope for straight morally-white characters in this game are [[Catgirl|Taokaka]] and [[Highly-Visible Ninja|Bang Shishigami]]. They both have good hearts and goals, and they're not quite broken yet... wait, they're the designated [[Joke Character|Joke Characters]] of the series? Well, [[Precision F-Strike|fuck]].
* In ''[[Warcraft III]]'' the factions ranged from genocidal (Undead) all the way to willing to let everyone die out of sheer prickishness (Night Elves). [[World of Warcraft]] turns around and averts this with Tirion Fordring. Despite the questlines in Northrend which appear to be arguing that good people must sometimes do bad things, the only man who keeps his hands clean [[Curb Stomp Battle|melts the face off the Lich King]] every time they meet.
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** The loading scene before the last level consists of Reznov reading a diary passage from said squadmate, after {{spoiler|his death by a German flamethrower.}} If you have your character fully participate in the slaughter of the Germans, he will denounce the character. If you restrain yourself, he will praise you. If you do a mixture of both, he will simply paint you as a moral question mark.
* ''[[Borderlands]]''. The four protagonists are all [[Only in It For the Money]] and more than a bit sociopathic (especially Mordecai and Brick). Their main allies are a greedy arms dealer who only helps them because they keep buying his <s>WMDs</s> weapons, an overly eccentric mechanic who cares more about his combat cars than ''anything else'', an [[Jerkass|utter bitch]] who also happens to be the [[Only Sane Man|only sane woman]], a medic with a [[Morally-Ambiguous Doctorate]] who may or may not have an [[Evil Twin]] [[Suspiciously Specific Denial|who is most definitely not just him in a disguise]], and an elitist, egotistical [[Insufferable Genius]] with [[Cloudcuckoolander|a questionable mental state]]. And yet, despite all this, they're ''still'' about 100 times better than the Bandits, Crimson Lance and {{spoiler|Eridians}}.
* Very present in the German RPG-Maker Game [[Vampires Dawn]]. The fact that you're playing a vampire should already give you a hint. While it is perfectly possible to play a noble kind of vampire who doesn't feed on humans or does worse to them, the technical leader of our [[Power Trio]] is not [[The Hero]], but the [[Token Evil Teammate]], who revels in being a vampire. Therefore, you will still be doing some morally questionable things, like killing the nation's King or sucking up souls for extra strength. In the second game, our heroes are engaged in a three-way battle with the [[Complete Monster]] Elras Mages and the heroic, but flawed Warrior Clan, and slaughter both indiscriminately.
* The protagonists in the ''[[Assassin's Creed]]'' series are members of an ancient [[Murder, Inc.|Assassin Order]] that routinely works with [[Private Military Contractors|mercenaries]], [[Thieves' Guild|thieves]] and [[The Oldest Profession|courtesans]] to kill their targets. Said targets are usually members or associates of the [[Knight Templar|Templars]], a shadowy group that counts nearly every prominent historical figure (from [[The Bible|Cain]] to [[The Borgias|Pope Alexander VI]] to [[Adolf Hitler]] to ''[[Mahatma Gandhi]]'') as members that have been secretly guiding humanity since the dawn of civilisation, with the ultimate goal of controlling the entire human race via the removal of [[The Evils of Free Will|free will.]] With only a handful of [[John F. Kennedy|notable aversions]], they're all [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters.]]
*** Then again, some of Abstergo files in Assassin's Creed Revelations seem to suggest the Templars took a bad turn [[Even Evil Has Standards|even for their regular standards]] during Renaissance, as the Borgias and their allies were more interested in personal ambition and profit than creating a better world, and most of them were part of [[Corrupt Church|corrupt cleric]] and [[Aristocrats Are Evil|greedy aristocrats]]. The Templars from the Crusades were all, except for [[Complete Monster|Majd Addin]], interested in actually stopping the crusades and bringing peace to the Holy Land. Most of their amoral actions are based on the idea that there is no God or Afterlife, {{spoiler|as the Pieces of Eden were instruments from an ancient civilization to create and manipulate mankind as a slave race}}, which they use as justification to [[Utopia Justifies the Means|create a better world, no matter how cruel they must be]]. Abstergo seems to follow this same line of thought, along with a hinted goal of {{spoiler|evolving humanity to a stage similar to Those Who Came Before.}} It's safer to say they think they're [[Necessarily Evil]] and have good intentions, with just some of their members actually being [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters]], since they don't hold many hiring moral standards.
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* ''[[Skyrim]]'' is filled with [[Black and Grey Morality]], along with [[Gray and Grey Morality]] and sometimes outright [[Evil Versus Evil]]. The [[Big Bad]] of the game is a [[Your Soul Is Mine|soul-eating]] [[Omnicidal Maniac]], and the [[Player Character|Dragonborn]] can be a ''real'' bastard too; you can {{spoiler|steal other people's things, rebuild the [[Psycho for Hire|Dark Brotherhood]] to it's former glory, murder the Emperor, trap people's souls to power your weapons, and torture people}}, and your mentor Paarthurnax {{spoiler|[[Alternate Character Interpretation|may or may not]] be a patient [[The Starscream|Starscream]] with a [[Meaningful Name]]}}. There's also the Civil War sidequest. One side is an iron-fisted but [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|well-intentioned]] [[Vestigial Empire]] that goes around executing innocent people because there may be a ''slight possibility'' that they are members of a rebel group that fights them (read: your first encounter with this faction ends up with you almost getting a [[Off with His Head|discount haircut]], even though you're ''proven to be nothing more than an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time'', the commander in charge '''''[[Kick the Dog|orders you to be killed anyway]]'''''), and may or may not be happy to [[Stupid Surrender|cozy up]] to a faction made up entirely of [[Complete Monster|genocidal fascists]]. The other is a group of bull-headed [[Fantastic Racism|racist]] rebels who are led by a guy who's either a revolutionary war hero, a [[Stupid Good]] freedom-fighter who [[Unwitting Pawn|doesn't fully grasp the consequences of his actions]], or a power-hungry tyrant who seized power due to a [[Klingon Promotion]]. Their mutual opposition? A faction of [[Guilt-Free Extermination War|genocidal]] [[A Nazi by Any Other Name|Nazi]] [[Can't Argue with Elves|High Elf supremacists]] who are plotting to [[Kill All Humans]] and destroy the world. [[Crapsack World|Things have]] '''really''' [[Darker and Edgier|gone to shit since]] [[Oblivion]].
* ''[[No More Heroes]]''. The name says it all. The game series is severely lacking in any truly moral characters, with the main character Travis being a [[A Loser Is You|loser]] and [[Anti-Hero]] who mostly kills simply under the the promise of getting sex with the beautiful young lady who arranges the fights and to get enough money to pay of his rent. And while he does have some morals keeping him at a rather light shade of grey, the other assassins he has to face range from [[Tragic Villain|Tragic Villains]] forced into the line of work due to circumstances, to [[Axe Crazy|complete psychopaths]]. {{spoiler|Subverted at the end of the second game, though, when Travis vows to destroy the UAA after seeing how many lives it has destroyed}}.
* Despite the series having a huge amount of humor [[Kid Icarus: Uprising]] ends up falling in this category. You have the Underworld army that is clearly evil and then you have the forces of nature that want to destroy humanity for destroying nature, the auron army that take planets and make a civilization from them, and space pirates that are just looting treasure. They're all in the grey zone as they all have good reasons for causing harm. Angel Land and humans are also not immune as [[Troll|Palutena]] is shown to not be the [[Good Is Not Nice|nicest Goddess]] alive as Pit makes her out to be and [[Humans Are Bastards]] in this game. Pit is the only character in the entire game that is shown to be the morally good person (white) of the series with his [[Evil Twin]] {{spoiler|(and even that is subverted near the end when he becomes almost as good as Pit)}} Dark Pit being the second given Pit's status as the [[Incorruptible Pure Pureness]] made him neutral at worse.
* The main plot of ''[[Book of Mages the Dark Times]]'' consists of a struggle between the White Robes and Black Robes. The [[Praetorian Guard|Black Robes]] are exactly what you would expect; the best of them are either [[Punch Clock Villain|Punch Clock Villains]] or fitted with an [[Explosive Leash]], while the willing members are tyrannical villains. {{spoiler|The Great Mage is actually an [[Anti-Villain]] who wants to become a [[Retired Monster]], but he's also guaranteed to die before the end game.}} The [[La Résistance|White Robes]], however, are willing to commit some questionable deeds to accomplish their goals, including attempting to rig a mage tournament to prevent a Black Robe from taking the top spot, and while most of their members are fairly light grey, {{spoiler|Flamier}} is only in it for personal power, and the White Robe PC can {{spoiler|cause a [[Full-Circle Revolution]] and oppress the other mages every bit as thoroughly as the Black Robes' Great Mage did.}} Meanwhile, neutral mages generally don't care about morality one way or the other; they only care that the Great Mage is elected [[Asskicking Equals Authority|according to the rules]], and whether the Great Mage is good or evil is irrelevant to them.
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* The Baker Street Irregulars of ''[[Mayonaka Densha]]'', while not consisting of bad people per se, aren't above killing their enemies or breaking into peoples homes in the name of justice. And the villain, {{spoiler|[[Jack the Ripper]] for some odd reason seems averse to actually killing them}}. This is even lampshaded by Hatsune at one point.
{{quote|"You know, for the quote unqoute good guys we sure do...break into a lot of places"}}
* ''[[8-Bit Theater
** Best demonstrated [http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/06/11/episode-1139-if-then/ here], with what the Light Warriors planned to do once their mission was accomplished.
* The various groups in ''[[Cry Havoc]]'' are black and grey, the mercenaries kill for money with even the most moral of them shooting fallen enemies, while the deamons they battle are trying to escape their morality by slaying the mercenaries, the werewolves are also trying to survive, even if they destroy the human race in the process.
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== Web Original ==
* The ''[[SCP Foundation]]'' is an organization that captures supernatural entities (terrible monsters and mere abnormal humans alike) and keeps them imprisoned, doing research on them. Also they use convicted felons (or innocents, in times of duress) to do the dangerous labours and conduct lethal experiments. The whole D-Class-Staff is killed and replaced every month or so. However, all this is just for security, to keep the unspeakable horrors they have captured inside their confinements.
* This is one of the primary themes of ''[[Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog]]'': The [[Villain Protagonist|protagonist is the villain]], who wants to [[Take Over the World]] so he can [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|put an end to all of its pain and misery]]; the [[Hero Antagonist|hero is the antagonist]], who uses his [[Smug Super|powers]] to [[Jerk Jock|bully]] everyone into conforming to his notion of what a True Hero should be like; and the only truly good character gets killed.
* The point-and-click RPG ''[http://fallenlondon.com Echo Bazaar.]'' Whatever path you take, you'll eventually end up housebreaking, spying for mysterious and unpleasant foreign powers, bullying families for protection money, or sending pickpockets to the gallows<ref>And that's if you're ''nice''.</ref>. This is, of course, [[Video Game Cruelty Potential|hugely entertaining]].
* In [[Strange Little Band]] the protagonists are thoroughly unpleasant people and almost seem like [[Villain Protagonist|Villain Protagonists]]. Then you meet the Antagonists, and you realize who the "heroes" are.
* In ''[[The Insane Quest]]'', it quickly becomes apparent that the members of Smoosh are not so much heroes as they are bystanders caught in the middle of a petty fight between two selfish gods. While their enemy, Segami, destroys planets, harms innocents and causes mayhem to accomplish his goals, their leader, Nintendoki...[[Not So Different|destroys planets, harms innocents and causes mayhem to accomplish his goals.]] The only real thing that sets Smoosh apart from their enemies is the fact that they realize when Nintendoki is telling them to do something wrong.
* In the [[Alternate History]].Com timeline ''[[Reds]]!'', the UASR is presented in a more positive light than most of the other governments of the time, but it is far from perfect. Amongst its abuses include the setting up of kangaroo courts and the execution of potentially innocent civilians (though nowhere near on the scale of Stalinist Russia).
* [[The Nostalgia Chick]]'s trailer plays this for laughs and describes the Dark Nella Saga as a battle between evil and "slightly less evil". (Dark Nella being evil and the Chick only being slightly less.)
* ''[[Kickassia]]'' has a president just minding his business being overthrown by a crazy idiot who becomes a dictator - and [[The Nostalgia Critic|the latter]], [[Villain Protagonist|who is the protagonist]], ends up fighting his comrades, who aren't much honorable themselves and try to take over when they think the Critic's died from their beating.
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