Black and Gray Morality: Difference between revisions

{{trope}}

 

{{quote|''"When will you fools learn that there are no battles fought by heroes?"''|'''Talpa''', ''[[Ronin Warriors]]''}}

It's simple: leave the job half-done. Only the white gets removed, leaving behind a world where the choice is between mundane corruption and baby-eating supervillainy. This is the essence of ''Black and Gray Morality''; the only choices are between kinda evil and soul-crushingly evil.

 

 

A good litmus test for this trope is as follows:

Also compare [[Nominal Hero]], where a character on the side of good doesn't have any good intentions.

 

 

{{examples}}

 

== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==

* ''[[Samurai Champloo]]'' to a certain degree. Or maybe it's just [[Heroic Sociopath|Mugen]].

** Jin. He was a ronin<ref> A samurai without a master</ref> {{spoiler|because Jin killed him in self-defense}}.

*** Actually, who isn't either a righteous bastard or a tragic figure in that anime?

* Apart from Puck and the Elves, you will be ''very'' hard pressed to find anyone who's genuinely good in ''[[Berserk]]'' who isn't doomed to a horrible fate.

** Soichiro, his wife, and his daughter are described by the creators as being the only totally good characters. The other task force members seem decent as well, even if Matsuda runs into some [[Not So Different]] issues.

* ''[[Hellsing]]'', where the protagonists include a viciously [[Heroic Sociopath|sociopathic]] super-vampire and the master who has to sanction his actions. On the other side you have [[Knight Templar]] [[Church Militant|Church Militants]] and a Nazi remnant organisation who employs baby-eating synthetic vampires, would-be rapists and have as a leader someone who wants to plunge the world into war and destruction [[For the Evulz]]. Seras is the only main character that might truly qualify for "white" status.

** Even Isaac and Miria, who are the most innocent and purehearted ones of the lot, are robbers wanted by the FBI.

** {{spoiler|Tosen, on the other hand, got fed up and left, believing Aizen to be an anti-villain who would implement a place better than the "worst heaven ever" that currently exists.}}

** Also, by Ichigo's talk with Uryu Ishida {{spoiler|Post Aizen's defeat, months later, it doesn't seem like much has changed one way or the other, as Urahara is still exiled and Uryu remains under threat of being killed by Shinigami for fighting Hollows. Sure, the heroes won. But did they deserve it?!}} Actually, the only Shinigami Captains who are somewhat truly good in Soul Society are [[Mama Bear|Retsu]] [[Beware the Nice Ones|Unohana]], [[Martial Pacifist|Shunsui]] [[Chivalrous Pervert|Kyoraku]], and [[Nice Guy|Jushiro]] [[A Father to His Men|Ukitake]]. The rest, however, is up for debate. And let us not talk about [[Achilles in His Tent|Genryusai]] [[Knight Templar|Yama]][[Took a Level In Dumbass|moto]], please. And even the above "good guys" stand by and watch/allow Soul Societies injustices.

*** After the initial Arrancar Invasion arc, the series seems to be slowly moving away from this, with Byakua Kuchiki being more willing to bend the rules, and captains like Soi Fon and Yamamoto showing softer sides during the Fake Karakura Town arc. {{spoiler|Most importantly, Yamamoto went against tradition to get Ichigo's powers restored, which is even commented on in-story as something he never would have done in the past.}}

**** The Vandenreich arc fits in here somewhere. The {{spoiler|Quincies are justified in wanting revenge on the shinigami, but their methods and intentional disruption with the balance cause them to be placed here. If it wasn't for the fact that they apparently didn't try to negotiate with the shinigami they would be still evil but [[But Not Too Evil|not too evil]]. However the shinigami did attempt genocide [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|albeit with noble intent]] and were thought to have pretty much succeeded until the Vandenreich appeared as that would have left only Uryu and Ryuken left.}} Again were it not for the threat they present/have presented to the world and their disregard of the damage their doing the conflict would fall more towards the [[Grey and Grey Morality]] side of things.

* ''[[Black Butler]]'' tends to fall into this, as while Ceil Phantomhive sometimes qualifies as evil and his predatory demon of a butler is ''always'' evil, they are able to look a lot better by taking down utter psychopaths in the name of the Queen.

** The ambiguous morality is somewhat subverted in the anime, wherein Ciel is much more cynical and less sympathetic as a character than he is in the manga.

** Though Slayers TRY is a case of [[Gray and Grey Morality]], especially because both sides are trying to save their own world.

** ''NEXT'' also has a certain amount of this, since the [[Disc One Final Boss]] actually only wants to kill Lina {{spoiler|to prevent his old boss from attempting to destroy the universe by forcing her to cast Giga Slave}}… Which {{spoiler|is exactly what Lina does}}. Even the first season qualifies to an extent, as while the [[Big Bad]] ''is'' an evil sadist, he's operating under the mistaken impression that his plan's success {{spoiler|would consist of him summoning and destroying a monster bent on the world's destruction, rather than being instantly possessed by it}}.

* Though the main characters of ''[[Hyakujitsu no Bara|Maiden Rose]]'' never do anything that crosses the [[Moral Event Horizon]], being able to see their motives and redeeming qualities excuses them for quite a bit. We have yet to see more of the antagonists than that they're remorseless and wicked (and [[Evil Is Cool|cool]] and [[Evil Is Sexy|sexy]]).

* ''[[Gungrave]]'' is an excellent example of this, everyone (especially the heroes) are murderers, gangsters and criminals. Despite this, there are very few characters that aren't either innately likeable or worthy of great respect. [[Mafia Princess|Maria Asagi]] and her [[Morality Pet|young daughter Mika]] are probably the only characters who qualify for "white" status.

* Pretty much everyone is [[Ax Crazy]] in ''[[Deadman Wonderland]]''. Whether you're in the 'black' or the 'grey' bit is basically determined by whether you torture anyone. Or take away anesthetic. That's pretty much it. If you give someone painkillers, you're a good guy.

* The main conflict of ''[[Code Geass]]'', a battle between a [[Social Darwinist]] regime and a tortured young revolutionary fighting for a more peaceful world yet is willing to resort to any necessary means, is very much this initially.

* ''[[Black Lagoon]]''. This show is basically a see-saw battle between [[Noble Demon|evil and selfish]] mercenaries and insanely evil people like [[Creepy Twins|Hansel and Gretel]] who LOVE to kill. While the Lagoon Company kills mostly really bad guys like Nazis, the worst people in this anime are so bloodthirsty they make Revy and Roberta look like Mother Theresa.

* In ''[[V for Vendetta]]'', the only real options are suffer under horrible fascists that are the only surviving piece of civilization, or rebel with a vicious killer for freedom before the collapse causes the apocalypse. The film made the rebel option better as there was never a nuclear holocaust (though a terrible pandemic substituted nicely and reduced the United States to a "leper colony"), so though V is still pretty crazy, he does have an ultimately admirable goal, and thus "less gray".

** There's some hope in the comic too, but in a rather absolutist way -- V basically leaves the people of England a choice between taking responsibility and pulling together voluntarily, or starving.

** Also note in the film, the populace's will hasn't been thoroughly crushed under the fascist regime. They are still able to rise up against their leadership with proper inspiration.

* ''[[Suicide Squad]]'' is pretty much the poster comic for this. It's about supervillains who have been captured and recruited into the U.S. government to go on most probably deadly missions for the good of America.

* The [[Secret Six]] are a group of Anti-Heroes/Anti-Villains that has a tendency to fight other, more evil supervillains. Interestingly, their stories tend to more [[Lighter and Softer|lighthearted]] than most super''hero'' stories set in the DC Universe.

* [[The Punisher]]. Pick a version, any version. The Punisher is the kind of character who, when trying to explain why he's on a list of Superheroes rather than Villains, you have to use the word "Technically" a lot.

* A very large portion of ''[[Judge Dredd]]'' stories fall into this. Dredd is a straight-up fascist protagonist, after all.

 

 

== [[Fanfic]] ==

 

 

 

== [[Film]] ==

** It is perhaps worth noting that there are a few very minor characters who seem to fill in the position of being truly good, although for one reason or another they often come off as [[Good Is Impotent]]. This is most notable with the Union prison commandant, who attempts to stop The Bad's torture of and stealing from the Confederate prisoners for no other reason than because those are truly horrific things to do. Unfortunately that commandant is effectively powerless within the prison camp, can barely walk due to a massive gangrene infection, and is slowly dying.

* ''Anything'' made by [[Quentin Tarantino]].

** Greatest example being ''[[Inglourious Basterds]]''. One of the "good" guys is Bridget Von Hammersmark, a double agent working for the [[World War Two|Allies]] who kills an unarmed and highly sympathetic German soldier in cold blood to stop her cover being blown ( {{spoiler|unfortunately it is anyway because she forgot [[Too Dumb to Live|she left an autographed napkin at the scene of the crime]]}}). Note that of the major characters in the film she has the ''least'' controversial blood on her hands. You know your film has a morally gray cast when a Jew-murdering Nazi and a Jew who beats Nazis to death with a baseball bat while quoting baseball celebrities are the [[Ensemble Darkhorse|Ensemble Darkhorses]].

* ''[[Killing Zoe]]'' takes place in a world best described as [[Quentin Tarantino|Tarantino]] meets [[Bret Easton Ellis]]. From the co-writer of [[Pulp Fiction]] and director of [[The Rules of Attraction]].

** Under the same lines is the film ''[[City of God]]''.

* ''Anything'' made by [[Martin Scorsese]] when it involves the Mafia, the [[The Departed|Irish Mafia]], or any criminal element whatsoever.

** Mothra didn't die in the Heisei series. It was in the Rebirth of Mothra series that she did the heroic sacrifice, which was part of a different continuity.

* ''[[Pirates of the Caribbean]]'' slowly turns white-as-snow Will and Elizabeth into lying, stealing, killing pirates, although all in the name of saving their skins from the undead and the corrupt. Jack Sparrow is a bullseye grey [[Anti-Hero]] who cares enough about freedom to free slaves ([[Backstory]]) and save his friends, but cares more about himself than anything. It seems to try to avert the trope by having the gray villains and harmless lackeys around. But then there's Beckett, the epitome of repressive order and the only person in the whole trilogy (except his Dragon, Mr. Mercer) you can properly hate, who [[Kick the Dog|kicks various dogs]] and doesn't stop for two movies.

* ''[[Payback]]'' is all about an [[Anti-Villain]] getting revenge on even worse people for setting him up. This is done somewhat literally too, as the cinematography emphasizes dark colors, cloudy skies, etc.

** No, ''District 9'' is an example of [[Heel Face Turn]] (aka, redemption of the sinner), not of grey morality. It was quite clear that the character was unsympathetic at the beginning; he changed.

** But everyone Wikus is up against once he's forced to take refuge with the Prawns ([[Mega Corp|MNU]] - from which he left - and the Nigerian drugdealers) is worse.

* A number of comedies in the late '70s/early '80s (e.g., ''[[Animal House]],'' ''[[Caddyshack]],'' ''Stripes'') centered on a group of rakish loser protagonists aligned against cleaner-cut but authoritarian antagonists. The tagline for ''Caddyshack,'' for example, was "[[Slobs Versus Snobs|The Snobs Against the Slobs]]." While the viewer will almost certainly find himself rooting for the losers, these are not people you would trust around your kids.

* The ''[[Infernal Affairs]]'' films, spectacularly. {{spoiler|Wong appears to be mostly White in the first film, but then you get hit by the prequel...}}

** ''[[Snatch]]''. The most sympathetic characters are Turkish, Tommy, and the [[Irish Traveller]] clan. Turkish and Tommy are shady characters in the London underworld who run unlicensed boxing matches, gambling houses, etc. Turkish in particular is a rather cutting [[Deadpan Snarker]]. The Travellers participate in the sale of fake gold and jewels, rip off their business partners in transactions, then intimidate them with force, and at one point consider killing Tommy over a misunderstanding. The least sympathetic character is [[London Gangster|Brick Top]], who [[You Have Outlived Your Usefulness|routinely kills off his mooks]], brutalizes dogs and puts them into lethal dogfights, kills people and feeds them to pigs to dispose of the bodies, sets fire to the caravan of one of the gypsies, (burning her alive) and threatens to wipe out the rest of the clan if they don't cooperate with him.

** ''[[Rock N Rolla]]''. The most sympathetic characters are Archy, Johnny Quid and the Wild Bunch. Archy is [[The Dragon]] for an underworld boss who kills or beats people without hesitation. Johnny is a drug addled rock star who routinely steals from people, (and threatens them with a knife if they protest) hands out [[No-Holds-Barred Beatdown|No Holds Barred Beatdowns]] to bouncers who try to stop from getting into clubs, (and keeps going long after they have stopped being able to resist) and constantly physically and verbally abuses the people around him. The Wild Bunch are a trio of career criminals. The least sympathetic character is Lenny, (Archy's boss and Johnny's step-father) an arrogant man, abusive father, [[Politically-Incorrect Villain]], a crime boss who lowers victims into water to drown/be eaten alive by voracious crayfish, rips off the people who make deals with him so that he can get them in his debt, and has secretly {{spoiler|given testimony that has put most of his men and partners into jail at one time or another in order to save himself from prosecution}}.

* ''[[The Element of Crime]]''. A more than questionable [[Anti-Hero]] pursuing a [[Serial Killer|child killer]], (un)assisted by [[Bad Cop, Incompetent Cop|the worst police force ever]] in the [[Crapsack World|crumbling ruins of dirt poor]] [[Wretched Hive|and morally corrupt]] [[After the End|post World War II Germany]]? If this isn't it, then…

* The [[Villain Protagonist|Villain Protagonists]] in ''[[The Final]]'' are a group of [[Teens Are Monsters|teen]] [[Loners Are Freaks|outcasts]] who [[Cold-Blooded Torture|torture]] and [[Beauty to Beast|mutilate]] their school's [[Alpha Bitch|popular]] [[Jerk Jock|kids]] as revenge for a lifetime of humiliation. As one can figure from the last sentence, neither side in the situation is all that nice. The only real "good" guy is Kurtis -- and even that's pushing it, seeing as how he {{spoiler|kills Andy in cold blood}}.

* ''[[Star Wars]]'' is a clear example of [[Black and White Morality]], but ''[[Revenge of the Sith]]'' alludes to Black and Gray

by hinting that the Jedi Order were on the brink of falling to the Dark Side as they tried to take over the Coruscant court for themselves even though their intention was to eradicate the Sith Lord from ruling the galaxy.

 

 

== [[Literature]] ==

* R. Scott Bakker's [[Second Apocalypse|Prince of Nothing]] trilogy exemplifies this trope. The most important character in the series, Anasurimbor Kellhus (there are several protagonists, but Kellhus is really the central character of the trilogy), is a ruthless, brilliant manipulator, part of an order of ascetics who have spent nearly two thousand years in isolation breeding and training for intellect, rationality, and the ability to "read" other people by their actions, mannerisms, and faces, thus "possessing" them and turning them to their will. Over the course of the trilogy, {{spoiler|he comes to be seen as a Prophet, and eventually dominates the entire Three Seas area that composes the main setting for the books (he also comes to believe that he really ''is'' a Prophet).}} That sounds pretty horrible, until you remember that the primary antagonists, the Consult, {{spoiler|are a cabal of human and non-human sorcerers and generals (including the Inchoroi, an alien race that fell into Earwa thousands of years before the books' story and who are defined by cruelty and an utter obsession with slaking their lust) seeking to resurrect a being that causes ''all'' children of races with souls - namely, humans - to be stillborn, so that they can drive the number of ensoulled beings in the world down below a certain number in order to prevent the certainty of their facing damnation and hell-fire upon their deaths.}} So Yeah.

* The civil war in [[Dread Empires Fall]]; The "good side" is a massive, tyrannical empire that bombs worlds if they don't join them, and torture is an encouraged form of punishment.

* The ''Executioner'' novels, which inspired [[The Punisher]], has Mack Bolan, the eponymous "hero" of these books.

* Many writings of [[Robert Sheckley]].

* ''[[Trainspotting]]'' -- Almost all of the main characters are amoral drug addicts. The ones that aren't are either dead, going to be drug addicts in the near future, or [[Hair-Trigger Temper|berserker psychopaths]]. Or dead. Or are going to suffer because of the main characters.

** And it's even more complicated than that. The book talks about how people who are going to be drug addicted are better before taking any drug: for instance, everyone says that the drug dealer was a nice man before taking heroin. It's more something like "white and gray morality".

** This also applies to Vlad's friends Aliera and Morrolan. Both are ruthless and quite selfish, but are nicer to humans/arguably less of a danger to Dragaera than their fellow nobles. Thus, in ''Dragon'', Vlad sarcastically notes the irony of calling Morrolan's army in which he is a member the "good guys", since all they are doing is trying to take some artifacts of doom/empathetic weapons so that a somewhat worse noble can't have them. Similarly, the plot of the upcoming novel, ''Iorich'' involves Vlad trying to defend Aliera after she is arrested on a charge of using illegal magic (the same type her father used and accidentally destroyed the old capitol and killed everyone there). This isn't because Aliera is innocent. Rather, it's because so many nobles break this law, that there must be a conspiracy at play for Aliera to be arrested for something she does in essentially plain sight.

* ''[[Conan the Barbarian]]'', especially Robert E. Howard's original stories. The hero is a mercenary/pirate/bandit/professional thief albeit one with a code of honor. Most everyone else is worse.

{{quote| '''Sirius Black:''' The world is not divided into good people and Death Eaters.}}

* Martha Wells' ''Death of the Necromancer'' has [[Anti-Villain|Nicholas]] [[Aristocrats Are Evil|Valiarde,]] a coldblooded thief, murderer and all around [[Magnificent Bastard]]. Nic has spent years sabotaging his enemy on a [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge]]; at the start of the narrative, Nic's nearing the completion of his [[Xanatos Gambit|ultimate scheme]] when he and his subordinates run afoul of an unknown person using [[Black Magic]]. Somehow, this leads to the group spending the rest of the book fighting an insane mass murderer. And the reason they do it is at least partly because it's ''bad for business.''

* The various races in [[Lord of the Rings]] could be this. Tolkien makes it pretty clear that any of the "good" races, even elves, are capable of evil. But you aren't likely to see a [[Always Chaotic Evil|goblin or ork turning good any time soon]].

* In [[Andrew Vachss]]'s Burke books, Burke and his [[True Companions]] are mostly ex-cons who skirt or break the law frequently. They cross paths with pedophiles and other [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters]] from time to time.

* By the final book, ''[[The Hunger Games]]'' devolves into this. On one hand you have the Capitol, who among oppressing the majority of their citizens in day-to-day life, force children to kill each other on television each year. On the other hand, the {{spoiler|District 13}} rebels are shown to be inclined to using drastic measures to attain "freedom", and by the end of the novel their leader is shown to be completely corrupt.

* Tadeusz Borowski's Holocaust stories feature the occasional good character, but they don't tend to live long in the atmosphere of the camps. The characters who do survive (at least for a while) are those who're willing to steal from others, to betray each other to the guards, to help in the execution of the Jewish inmates, and even to eat the corpses of their fellow prisoners so as to avoid starvation.

* The Tribulation Force versus the Global Community (and also God versus Satan) in the ''[[Left Behind]]'' books. Thing is, it's hard to determine which side is black and which side is grey.

* ''[[Gone]]'' started out having [[Gray and Grey Morality]], but, by ''Plague'', has solidly veered into this. The heroes are still quite far from white, and the bad guys, after a year of enduring even worse [[Nightmare Fuel]] than the protagonists, are now growing increasingly [[The Sociopath|sociopathic]] and [[Kick the Morality Pet|kicking morality pets right and left.]]

 

== [[Live Action TV]] ==

* ''[[Mad Men]]''. Due to the nature of the times, the men more so than the women. Most men tend to be lying cheating assholes, and the women either act this way too or they are ''screwed''.

* The work of [[Joss Whedon]]

{{quote| '''Wesley:''' There is a line, Lilah. Black and white. Good and evil.<br />

'''Lilah:''' Funny thing about black and white: you mix it together and you get grey. And it doesn't matter how much white you try and put back in, you're never gonna get anything but grey. }}

** ''[[Dollhouse]]''. The show is all about a business that brainwashes people to act like other people and service the needs and wants of the business' clients (sometimes sex, sometimes other things). Most (but not all) of the brainwashed people "volunteered" for it, so YMMV on wheather or not this is wrong. The business sometimes uses the technology and brainwashed people for clearly good things (rescuing kidnapped people, trying to help an abused child grow up into a healthy adult etc.) and sometimes for clearly bad things (theft, ruining an innocent man's reputation etc.) In any case, they are never as bad as their enemies, which include The Ghost (a child molester) and [[Create Your Own Villain|Alpha]] (a sadist who [[Knife Nut|carves up people's faces with a large knife]] [[For the Evulz]]).

** Listen to Castiel's speech to Dean about how every human is a work of art and thus all precious to God, and reconsider. When Uriel's disdain for humanity is answered by an icy cold "You're close to ''blasphemy''", you can't say that Good doesn't exist or that it doesn't care. It's just very ''outnumbered'' right now.

* ''[[CSI: Miami]]'' has been guilty of this for years. The head of the lab, Horatio Caine, informed an unresisting pedophile that he was "resisting arrest," meaning he was about to get a serious beating. Horatio and his brother-in-law went to Brazil to kill the man responsible for his wife's murder. The instances of police brutality are too numerous to count, all excused by the idea that the victims are all bad guys and the 'good guys' needed information from them.

* ''[[The Thick of It]]'' and its film ''[[In the Loop]]'' both have this view on the morality of humanity and the political workplace. Here, ''no'' character is without his or her flaws, and are all varying degrees of moronic, cowardly, backstabbing, manipulative, or just generally unpleasant bastards in general, all more concerned with keeping their jobs than with doing the right thing.

* The old British Sci-fi show ''[[Blake's Seven|Blakes Seven]]'' is a classic example of this. The "Good Guys" start out on their way to prison, with only the main character being actually unjustly convicted (Or was he?), and proceed to fight against the even worse Federation by stealing things and blowing stuff up. They also tend to leave a swath of dead bodies in their wake.

* The British miniseries ''[[Ultraviolet]]''. On one side is a cabal of vampires who plot to enslave humanity in order to save us from ourselves (thus eradicating their food supply). On the other is a shadowy government organization that answers to no one and follows a very end-justifies-the-means kind of program.

** In the graphic novels we also find out he's a torturer and murderer. He was also directly involved in the plot to blow up New York city and apparently worked alongside Linderman during this time. He also was the one who had Candice save Sylar from Kirby Plaza

* ''[[Sons of Anarchy]]''. The title biker gang is mostly composed of [[Heroic Sociopath|Heroic Sociopaths]] (except for Tig ([[Psycho for Hire]]), Jax ([[Anti-Hero]] or [[Anti-Villain]] depending on ones viewpoint) and Opie ([[The Woobie]]). The cops are all hopelessly corrupt or psycho except for Hale, the [[Knight in Sour Armor]] and Stahl, the [[Knight Templar]]. And then there are the ''really'' nasty gangs.

** It is saying something about the setting when the "good" faction, the Tau Empire have a "join us or die" plan of galactic conquest.

* ''[[Warhammer]] Fantasy'' is almost as bad as [[Warhammer 40000]]. The main "good" races are arrogant elves, isolationist elves, power-hungry humans, grim feudalistic humans, [[Mayincatec]] lizards who practice human sacrifice, and [[Our Dwarves Are All the Same|dwarves that are all the same, only with fatalism and grudges against everyone under the sun]]. You get the occasional hero; you also get regular sociopaths. Fantasy does, however, have good people like [[Reasonable Authority Figure|Emperor Karl Franz]], [[The Wise Prince|Prince Tyrion]], [[The Atoner|Alith Anar]], and [[An Ice Person|Tsarina Katerin]], so it's not nearly as dark as 40k.

** In ''[[Genius: The Transgression]]'', the Peerage deliberately chose to be Grey because if you have a Genius go off on his own he'll often become [[Complete Monster|Illum]][[The Unfettered|inated]], and if the choice is between accepting jerks or have them wander off and turn into Mengele, you'd better get used to putting up with jerks. The Storyteller is advised to keep the players wondering whether the [[Ancient Conspiracy]] Lemuria is really that bad compared to the barely human nutbars in high-up positions in the Peerage. (The "black" role here is played not so much by modern Lemuria, which is just going through the motions, but by [[Empty Shell|Clockstoppers]], the Illuminated, and the occasional Hollow Earth Nazi or Phantom Slaver Yeti.)

* In ''[[Call of Cthulhu]],'' the heroes are insane and the villains are even more insane.

* Morality is a very minor point in [[Shadowrun]]. Generally characters don't question whether it is right to take a job, they question [[Kleptomaniac Hero|how much they get paid]]. Though some groups [[Even Evil Has Standards|draw the line at assassination]].

* ''[[Cthulhu Tech]]'': A crossover between [[Cosmic Horror Story|H.P. Lovecraft]] and ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion]]'' was bound to be pretty hard on everybody -- an ongoing theme of the setting is how the horrible, soul-rending evils wage a tireless war to keep the ''really'' bad stuff at bay. To quote the Corebook's intro fiction: "Some people say war is hell. Well, I've seen Hell. This is worse."

** Basically, the main factions are a police state, a number of secret societies (the Eldritch Society, the Children of Chaos, the Esoteric Order of Dagon), and the Rapine Storm (who are [[Complete Monster|significantly more evil than they sound]]).

* The ''Necessary Evil'' setting for the [[Savage Worlds]] game-line starts out with all the superheroes of the world getting killed by a precision strike by invading aliens. The only ones left to oppose them (the PCs and their allies) are the supervillains.

* ''[[Winterweir]]'' is an Anti-Traditional Fantasy RPG in many respects. As such, the Trow and humans killing each other are more likely to be decent people suffering [[Fantastic Racism]] than not.

** Or ComStar, who are shown to be a manipulative and secretive organization, that can easily bring a state to its knees just by shutting off all communications between planets, and which is not above intriguing to keep its own interests secure -- there are a few hints that the Succession Wars may well be a [[Xanatos Gambit]] by ComStar intended to preserve its own autonomy and power within the Inner Sphere. At the same time, it is the last holdout for many destroyed technologies that humanity would need to survive and thrive.

* The ''[[Dungeons and Dragons]]'' campaign world ''[[Greyhawk]]'' lives for this trope. The world of Oerth is always on a knife's edge between Law and Chaos, and there is an organization led by Mordenkainen the Mage (who must people will recognize because his name appears on a few spells) that ensures that neither gains ascendancy... by any means necessary. Literally. Mordenkainen, in canon fiction ([[Gary Gygax|Word of Gygax]], however, has it that this wasn't intended originally, had he not been ousted from TSR) will work with the [[Big Bad]] one week, and then lead a group of paladins against him the next... all to keep the balance between Law and Chaos correct.

** [[Forgotten Realms|The city of Neverwinter]], which has its own campaign book as of 4th Edition. Sure, you have the standard [[Obviously Evil]] factions such as the [[Eldritch Abomination|Abolethic Sovereignty]], [[The Necrocracy|Thay]], the [[Religion of Evil|Ashmadai]], and a [[Our Werebeasts Are Different|criminal empire of wererats]], but even the "good" factions don't come off particularly well. [[The Usurper|Lord Dagult Neverember]] is unquestionably helping the city recover after being ravaged by an erupting volcano, but he's a bit of a sleazeball and his reasons for devoting resources and money to the city aren't entirely altruistic. And [[Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters|the Sons of Alagondar]], while certainly well-intentioned in their desire to see Neverwinter back in the hands of its people, are willing to murder, riot and hop into bed with the Dead Rats and Thay in order to see their goals achieved.

* ''[[Exalted]]'', because they wanted any kind of Exalt to be an acceptable player character. Let's see: the Solars used to be the mind-raping fascist overlords of the First Age and were fond of creating and later destroying entire races, the Lunars tend towards the [[Social Darwinist]] end of the scale, the Dragon-Bloods are ruthlessly militaristic tyrants, the Sidereals are [[Manipulative Bastard|Manipulative Bastards]], the Abyssals poison the world merely by existing, the Infernals have made deals with [[Eldritch Abomination|Eldritch Abominations]] to screw up the world as part of a frankly insane plan, and the Alchemicals are the propaganda face of a totalitarian state modelled on ''[[Nineteen Eighty-Four]]''. These guys, even the Infernals, are the ''Grey''. You don't want to know what the Black are like.

 

 

== Theater ==

 

 

 

*** It should be noted that neither Janos nor Moebius realized that the Elder God was just a hungry Eldritch Abomination. He even manages to fool Kain once. The Elder God is [[The Omniscient]] [[Magnificent Bastard]], and pretty much made everyone his [[Unwitting Pawn|Unwitting Pawns]] till Raziel purified Kain and allowed him to see the Elder God. [[spoiler: Moebius himself is forced to see it, [[My God, What Have I Done?|and is quite horrified]]. Janos even admits that to pass on the curse was horrible, but it was necessary to keep the Hylden at bay. Also, while Raziel's main motivation is vengeance, he comes as more sympathetic and troubled guy as the story goes by. He REALIZES he's an [[Unwitting Pawn]] to everyone, especially the guy who created and burned him, Kain, and in the end is {{spoiler|willing to make a sacrifice of the same vein Kain wasn't willing to(sacrifice yourself to save the world), though in Kain's case, killing himself wouldn't have solved anything}}. The plot is complicated, so it's safe to say everyone's got their Freudian Excuse or has been fooled into being what they are.

*** And let's not forget the Hylden. When you hear their story, you surely pity and root for them. Problem is, after so many eons trapped in the Demon Realm, they've become as genocidal and monstrous as the Ancient Vampires and Sarafans. They engineered Ariel's murder and the Corruption of the Pillars, and it's hinted they would have done it again and succeeded if Kain had sacrificed himself in the first game. In Blood Omen 2, they are revealed to have created a [[Doomsday Device|massive bio-organic superweapon]] [[The Final Solution|to kill every non-Hylden thing on Nosgoth]]. Plus, as {{spoiler|they are secretly controlling the Sarafans}}, their rule is quite the inquisitorial, fascist one.

** CJ {{spoiler|murders the entire staff of a construction site and buries the foreman alive}} because someone whistled at his sister. And in an earlier mission, he breaks into a mansion and injures a rap star and all of his bodyguards, kidnapped the star's manager and trapped him in a car and ran it into the sea, all so his friend (who he doesn't even like) can steal his music or something. He's pretty vile.

* If you ever play ''[[Tactics Ogre]]'' past the first chapter, then you'll see this trope in spades: everyone (including yourself, possibly) commits truly horrific atrocities, yet your home team still somehow ends up gray...

* The ''Tiberium'' series of ''[[Command and Conquer]]'' gives you a choice between playing several factions. One is the Brotherhood of Nod, a fanatical army of terrorists who have no problem with killing civilians, torturing prisoners, and conducting horrific experiments with [[Green Rocks]] on the same. The second, "grayer" faction is the Global Defense Initiative, which is selfish, corrupt, and bound by countless rivers of red tape, and is focused entirely on improving the wealth and life of its own population at the expense of the majority of the world, which is rapidly falling apart into worldwide civil strife and poverty. Later games introduce a third faction named the Scrin, who are [[Kill All Humans|homicidal]] [[Scary Dogmatic Aliens]].

** ''[[Command and Conquer Generals]]'' has this in spades. While the GLA are pretty much hypocritical assholes exploiting their "just cause," the "good guys" aren't ''entirely'' altruistic on their part either. The Americans can come across as obnoxious and self-righteous patriots, while China is not above using napalm-based or even nuclear weapons if it means securing victory.

** In spite of its happy [[Space Western]] trappings (although you always have a white hat and your opponents more dastardly headgear, even in multiplayer,) ''Spaceward Ho!'' presents an especially chilling example when you think about it. In order to colonize an enemy planet, you destroy all enemy defences, melt them for scrap, kill the entire biosphere, and [[Terraform]] the planet to match your native ecosystem.

** In the 4X series ''[[Space Empires]]'' you can conquer enemy planets and live alongside the alien colonists you capture. You could even trade populations between different races as being able to breathe the atmosphere on a planet allows for more buildings. However, to get the maximum number of facilities only the race capable of breathing can be there. This means on occasion you may have millions of colonists who would otherwise have to live in domes to "relocate". You could bother to have a transport come and pick them up, but it's easier to just jettison them from the cargo. This is referred to as "Spacing". What's more you can "scrap" them and get 1 kiloton of organics per 1 million population, referred to as the "Soylent option", although it's not worth it really.

** Played totally straight in ''[[Star Control]]''. When the Alliance of Free Stars, the ostensible good guys, captures a Hierarchy mine or colony, they just bombard it to destruction from orbit. When the Syreen, one of the Alliance races, captures a Hierarchy colony, they first use mind control to recruit crew members from the civilian population, and then annihilate the rest from orbit. Oh, and don't forget that one member "race" of the Hierarchy, the Androsynth, are actually just human beings, but, because they were clones, they were enslaved by the rest of humanity. They joined the Hierarchy because the Alliance recruited humanity. And another Alliance race, the Shofixti, use suicide bombing as a standard tactic.

*** Arguably averted in the sequel. After the Alliance of Free Stars is defeated, its revealed that the Ur-Quan possess a ''[[Lost Superweapon]]'' and their genocidal brothers, the Kohr-Ah, want to put it to good use through galactic genocide... INCLUDING the Ur-Quan's allies. By comparison, the least worst the player can do (while still being able to beat the game and not sacrifice anyone else) is cripple the fleet of two alien races, both of which are very hostile.

** There's also one portion in the game where a captured enemy captain died under interrogation. This is no Starfleet Command we're working with.

* Lampshaded in ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'' by Solid Snake saying ''"I'm no hero. Never was, never will be. I'm just an old killer hired to do some wetwork."'' The truth is, he's one of the [[Reluctant Warrior|least gung-ho heroes]]. Compared to him most action heroes are [[Blood Knight|reckless bastards]], but he actually feels guilty for all the mooks he killed and does not want other people to admire him for that.

* The Renegade playthrough of ''[[Mass Effect]]'' seems to take this light. While that's not to say there isn't a decent amount of [[Grey and Grey Morality|grey]] in the Paragon playthrough, Shepard and his/her crew are, for the most part, pretty clear-cut good guys. In the Renegade playthrough on the other hand, Shepard is portrayed as a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] [[The Unfettered|who will go to any lengths]] to stop Saren and, later, {{spoiler|Sovereign.}} Though this can be justified by Saren being a [[Complete Monster]], and {{spoiler|Sovereign being an [[Omnicidal Maniac]]}}.

* During ''[[Modern Warfare]]'', members of your party regularly engage in torture, one murders an unarmed man tied to a chair, and another holds an ally over a ledge with the full intent to drop him. By the next game, your party gets even more ruthless, at one point (implicitly) interrogating someone with electricity. When playing as an American going undercover, {{spoiler|you're forced to gun down an entire airport full of civilians.}} {{spoiler|However, you were playing directly into the [[Big Bad]]'s hands with that one.}} By the end of the second act, {{spoiler|Capt. Price, your team leader, launches a nuclear warhead at the United States, nullifying all technology on the East Coast.}} And by the end of the game, {{spoiler|Soap, your character, and Price have become fugitives with only one intent in mind: kill the bastard who set them up, and fucked over world history in a big way.}} There is no question, however, that these men are infinitely more heroic than [[Chaotic Evil|the people]] [[Complete Monster|they fight]].

* A similar setup was used in the sadly defunct MMORPG ''[[Auto Assault]]'' with the Humans, Mutants, and Biomeks. Each faction had reasons for wanting the other two dead, although the Humans may have been the biggest bastards of the bunch depending on how justified you think their desperate measures to protect their own existence were.

* In ''[[Knights of the Old Republic]]'', you're going to kill Malak no matter what your moral persuasion. Carth even explicitly uses this to rationalize staying with you after {{spoiler|[[The Reveal|finding out who you really are]].}} Of course, the Jedi might also qualify for this, given that {{spoiler|they might or might not have erased your memory and turned you into a drone so that they could use you to uncover [[Artifact of Doom|the source of Malak's power.]]}} You can try to turn him, and if you do he'll repent as he lays dying. Even a character you had ''just'' previously turned back to the Light side will act surprised you even made the effort, though.

* In ''[[Killer 7]]'', the protagonists are a group of amoral assassins who do work for people manipulating the fates of entire countries. Killing one of their targets, Toru Fukushima apparently results in the entire population of Japan being massacred, and if you refuse, Japan becoming [[Big Brother]] to everyone else. The villains include a [[Card-Carrying Villain|card-carrying terrorist]]. Dan's old mentor is a black-market organ dealer - and that's the face he ''doesn't'' conceal from the world. And then there's the fact that the protagonists are embodiment of good fighting against evil.

* ''[[Fallout]]'' revels in this. Aside from the entirety of the game world's premise, every single organization or group of people in the game are either gray or black. For example, the [[Knights Templar|Brotherhood of Steel]] works towards a better future for humanity by trying to save every single piece of technology and creating a utopia for its members, but is generally disdainful of, and ignores, other people not in the Brotherhood of Steel. In the third game, the East Coast branch becomes more humanist, but suffers a schism early on in their history that leaves them horribly ineffective at actually helping people aside from keeping a radio station on air, they also shot Ghouls on signt, something not even [[The Empire|The Legion]] does.

** In fact, some quests are there to hammer this point home, most notably the infamous ''Tenpenny Towers'' quest.

** The [[The Federation|NCR]] is an expansionist, corrupt, overly bureaucratic state where citizens are taxed heavily.

** Mr. House is an [[Insufferable Genius]] who has great plans for an independent New Vegas state, but one that is tightly controlled by him alone.

** The [[Barbarian Tribe|Boomers]] are [[Proud Warrior Race Guys]] who will join up with ''anyone'' if it means [[Stuff Blowing Up|bombing]] "savages", and by that they mean [[Of the People|everyone who isn't a Boomer]].

** And then there's [[Player Character|you]], yes [[Courier|you]], who can chose to turn the Mojave Wasteland into a new Wild West; completely independent and free, but everyone has to look out for themselves with no one but the person standing beside them to rely on. You do this by essentially burning every other group to the ground and letting the flames sort it all out.

* In typical RPG fashion, [[The Witcher]] allows you to side with one of two warring factions in the Vezima area. One the one side you have a racist order of human knights who wage a genocidal war against elves and dwarves, and on the other side you have a racist terrorist group of elves and dwarves who wage a genocidal war against humans. Fortunately you can [[Take a Third Option]], which means siding with neither faction and becomming an enemy of both. While all 3 options are gray to some degree (neutrality ends with a huge kill count on ''both'' sides), the main enemy, Salamandra, has no redeeming qualities.

* [[Sly Cooper]] leans in this direction, he robs the wicked and gives to himself as part of a family tradition that goes back thousands of years. Most of what's been stolen hasn't even spent but rather dumped in a vault because when it scmes down to it the Cooper Clan steals things purely to stroke their own egos.

* The bread and butter of ''[[Drakengard]]''. The protagonist is a bloodthirsty psychopath with a penchant for vengeance; your allies are a pedophile, an insane infertile child killer, and a dragon with an unbridled hatred for all of humanity; your former "friend" goes nuts with jealousy and grief; and the most innocent character, your sister, wants to jump your bones and because of this she {{spoiler|kills herself}} sfter revealing that. This is all much less clear in the American version, where they greatly toned down these quirks, but they're still there... and to think, you're the ones trying to save the world. The rest of the world is trying to kill you. In the sequel ''Drakengard 2'', this is much less so.

* Believe it or not, [[Mario]]'s world was like this in his debut game. In the arcade ''[[Donkey Kong]]'', Mario had captured the eponymous ape and wasn't very nice to him, leading to DK escaping and abducting Mario's girlfriend as revenge by proxy. Nintendo of America workers even named Mario after their landlord as a result of being mad at him, [[Springtime for Hitler|which backfired in a truly epic fashion.]]

* ''[[Blaz Blue]]'' features ''very'' few unambiguously good characters.

** On the side of the villains, we have the [[Organization Index|Novis Orbus Librarium, (NOL, the "Library" for short)]], [[The Empire|an oppressive, all-powerful organization]] ruled by the menacing, unseen Imperator. Although the institution itself is gray when it comes to morality (in fact, it's a neccessary case of [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]), and there are good people in it, its enforcers include; [[Big Bad|Hazama/Yuuki Terumi]], a [[Complete Monster]] [[Troll]] who has [[Magnificent Bastard|meticiously planned]], [[The Chessmaster|manitulated others into]], [[Moral Event Horizon|outright caused]], or is in some other way related to almost every single bad thing that has happened in the [[Blaz Blue]] verse, all of it strictly [[For the Evulz]]. Then there's Relius Clover, another [[Complete Monster]] who transformed his innocent wife and daughter into weapons using alchemy. And finally, there's Jin Kisaragi, who's [[Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking|a total]] [[Jerkass|dick]] to everyone he meets and has [[Ax Crazy]] [[Yandere]] tendencies towards his brother, Ragna. {{spoiler|(He does get better later on and ends up [[Heel Face Turn|siding with the good guys.]], but he's still a [[Good Is Not Nice|dick, but at least he's not a total one anymore]])}}.

** So, um, in that case how about [[Taking a Third Option]]? Maybe there's some unaligned people who CAN be accounted to be good. Well, first off there's the bounty hunter Carl Clover, who, deep down is a sweet boy, but thanks to Relius' (his father) atrocity, he has no qualms of murdering you while still acting polite if he wants any information from you. Hakumen is an unflappable [[Badass]] who is damn effective at leaving a trail of pain in his wake, and one of the few who can force ''Relius'' to bail from his mere presence... except he believes the only way to save the world from destruction is to mow down both Ragna and Terumi, and then go burn this world for he thinks it's been too corrupted and the only way is to restart the world anew, [[Knight Templar|and he is not open to alternatives whatsoever]]. Moving on from that, there's Litchi Faye-Ling. She's motherly, caring and compassionate and at least cares for the normal townspeople. But then, this is a case where her [[Love Martyr]]-ism is cruelly manipulated by Hazama to the point that she's right now siding the NOL to save her 'beloved' and herself. Said 'beloved'? Arakune, your resident [[Eldritch Abomination]] who'll eat you if he finds you tasty. And what of his human self that Litchi loved? Lotte Carmine, a glory-seeker, fame-hunting scientist who's just in Sector Seven for his own glory, not helped with his inferiority complex against Kokonoe. There's also Makoto, who is roughly Litchi's equal in terms of [[Blaz Blue]] goodness. She's kind, friendly, caring and compassionate to pretty much everyone, but if you [[Berserk Button|make the mistake of threatening her friends]], she'll [[Beware the Nice Ones|hunt you down and]] [[Good Is Not Soft|pound you into hamburger]]. Also, [[Chronic Backstabbing Disorder]] is game for her, if it'll lead to that. So yeah, I think your only hope for straight morally-white characters in this game are [[Catgirl|Taokaka]] and [[Highly-Visible Ninja|Bang Shishigami]]. They both have good hearts and goals, and they're not quite broken yet... wait, they're the designated [[Joke Character|Joke Characters]] of the series? Well, [[Precision F-Strike|fuck]].

* In ''[[Warcraft III]]'' the factions ranged from genocidal (Undead) all the way to willing to let everyone die out of sheer prickishness (Night Elves). [[World of Warcraft]] turns around and averts this with Tirion Fordring. Despite the questlines in Northrend which appear to be arguing that good people must sometimes do bad things, the only man who keeps his hands clean [[Curb Stomp Battle|melts the face off the Lich King]] every time they meet.

* The ''[[Earth 2150|Earth]]'' RTS series. The Eurasian Dynasty is [[The Empire]], combining the worst aspects of Soviet Russia and the Mongolian Khanate. Against them in ''Earth 2140'' are the UCS -- a group of lazy hedonists completely dependent on machines for labor. Sequel ''[[Earth 2150]]'' introduces the Lunar Corporation, who start off as [[A Lighter Shade of Grey]]... but get worse ''fast'' due to actually having to participate in the war. By ''Earth 2160'', they're confirmed to be working on chemical weapons.

* The hero of ''[[Dragon Age]]: Origins'' is a member of the Grey Wardens, an order of warriors, rogues and mages dedicated to battling the darkspawn. The latter is a race of [[Always Chaotic Evil]] monsters who would destroy the entire world if given the chance. The Grey Wardens enlist anyone strong enough to battle the darkspawn, which can include street thugs, bandits, assassins and even [[Blood Magic|blood mages]]. They can also forcibly conscript anyone they want into the order, which may be how you were chosen as a candidate. When you ask Alistair if the Grey Wardens are heroes, he tells you that the Grey Wardens do whatever is necessary to end the Blight, which can mean some pretty extreme things. You can be a total bastard in this game, but you will still be fighting to save the world.

** Many of the quests in the game force you to make a [[Sadistic Choice]], such as {{spoiler|the ending of the Redcliffe castle quest. You have a choice between killing the Arl's son because he's possessed by a Demon or sacrificing the Arl's wife with [[Blood Magic]] (which is illegal) so you or another mage in your party can go into the Fade and destroy the Demon, leaving the child unharmed. And it's really not clear which of these options is ''worse''. You can't win, as the morally correct characters disapprove either way.}}

* ''[[Total Annihilation]]'' is a galaxy spanning war-game about two factions that have ultimately desecrated and destroyed all of the principals they once fought for over an obsessive determination to totally annihilate their enemy.

* ''[[Darksiders]]'' follows this to a tee. You are War, a horseman of the Apocalypse. {{spoiler|The game opens with Heaven and Hell battling it out, with humans stuck in the middle, during a premature Apocalypse. You are later accused of starting it, and go on a [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge]] to take them down, and find out who really started the war, allying yourself with a high-ranking servant of the Devil, as well as a benevolent "Old One" along the way.}}

** And said extremists are, well, basically [[Those Wacky Nazis|Hitler]].

* ''[[Splinter Cell]]: Conviction'' seems to be headed this way.

* The Soviet Campaign of ''[[Call of Duty]]: World At War'' consists of hoards of pissed off Russians smashing their way through Nazi Germany, brutally killing anyone that stands in their way. Granted, the Germans did the same to them, but the Soviet's payback gets so bad that one of your squadmates will frequently protest the slaughter.

** The loading scene before the last level consists of Reznov reading a diary passage from said squadmate, after {{spoiler|his death by a German flamethrower.}} If you have your character fully participate in the slaughter of the Germans, he will denounce the character. If you restrain yourself, he will praise you. If you do a mixture of both, he will simply paint you as a moral question mark.

* Very present in the German RPG-Maker Game [[Vampires Dawn]]. The fact that you're playing a vampire should already give you a hint. While it is perfectly possible to play a noble kind of vampire who doesn't feed on humans or does worse to them, the technical leader of our [[Power Trio]] is not [[The Hero]], but the [[Token Evil Teammate]], who revels in being a vampire. Therefore, you will still be doing some morally questionable things, like killing the nation's King or sucking up souls for extra strength. In the second game, our heroes are engaged in a three-way battle with the [[Complete Monster]] Elras Mages and the heroic, but flawed Warrior Clan, and slaughter both indiscriminately.

*** Then again, some of Abstergo files in Assassin's Creed Revelations seem to suggest the Templars took a bad turn [[Even Evil Has Standards|even for their regular standards]] during Renaissance, as the Borgias and their allies were more interested in personal ambition and profit than creating a better world, and most of them were part of [[Corrupt Church|corrupt cleric]] and [[Aristocrats Are Evil|greedy aristocrats]]. The Templars from the Crusades were all, except for [[Complete Monster|Majd Addin]], interested in actually stopping the crusades and bringing peace to the Holy Land. Most of their amoral actions are based on the idea that there is no God or Afterlife, {{spoiler|as the Pieces of Eden were instruments from an ancient civilization to create and manipulate mankind as a slave race}}, which they use as justification to [[Utopia Justifies the Means|create a better world, no matter how cruel they must be]]. Abstergo seems to follow this same line of thought, along with a hinted goal of {{spoiler|evolving humanity to a stage similar to Those Who Came Before.}} It's safer to say they think they're [[Necessarily Evil]] and have good intentions, with just some of their members actually being [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters]], since they don't hold many hiring moral standards.

* ''[[Alpha Protocol]]''. You work for a shady, accountability-free government agency that 'recruit' you by kidnapping you {{spoiler|and are secretly collaborating with the [[Big Bad]] to escalate global politics for money}}. Your enemies include a [[Corrupt Corporate Executive]], a [[Captain Ersatz]] of Osama Bin Laden, a psychopathic torturing gangster, and an ex-rogue agent who takes hostages and blows up museums because it's his job to do so. It speaks volumes that the only person who doesn't openly mislead, lie to or manipulate you is the game's [[Heroic Sociopath]], who's only in it to hurt people you point him at.

* ''[[No More Heroes]]''. The name says it all. The game series is severely lacking in any truly moral characters, with the main character Travis being a [[A Loser Is You|loser]] and [[Anti-Hero]] who mostly kills simply under the the promise of getting sex with the beautiful young lady who arranges the fights and to get enough money to pay of his rent. And while he does have some morals keeping him at a rather light shade of grey, the other assassins he has to face range from [[Tragic Villain|Tragic Villains]] forced into the line of work due to circumstances, to [[Axe Crazy|complete psychopaths]]. {{spoiler|Subverted at the end of the second game, though, when Travis vows to destroy the UAA after seeing how many lives it has destroyed}}.

 

 

== Web Comics ==

* ''[[Looking for Group]]'' has elements of this. While [[The Empire|Legaria]] is definitely portrayed as villainous, the heroes aren't very nice people themselves. Especially [[Token Evil Teammate|Richard]].

* The Baker Street Irregulars of ''[[Mayonaka Densha]]'', while not consisting of bad people per se, aren't above killing their enemies or breaking into peoples homes in the name of justice. And the villain, {{spoiler|[[Jack the Ripper]] for some odd reason seems averse to actually killing them}}. This is even lampshaded by Hatsune at one point.

{{quote| "You know, for the quote unqoute good guys we sure do...break into a lot of places"}}

* ''[[Girl Genius]]'' is an example, albeit not a perfect one as the core conflict that's driven the story so far, Agatha vs. Klaus, is [[Grey and Gray Morality]]. However, ''aside'' from Team Agatha, Team Klaus, and Othar, most of the factions that have gotten into the game are evil to a lesser or greater extent. And then there's [[Big Bad|the Other]].

* ''[[Suicide for Hire]]''. ''Nobody'' in this world is nice, and those that are die horribly. So, for that matter, do the ones that aren't.

 

 

== Web Original ==

* The point-and-click RPG ''[http://fallenlondon.com Echo Bazaar.]'' Whatever path you take, you'll eventually end up housebreaking, spying for mysterious and unpleasant foreign powers, bullying families for protection money, or sending pickpockets to the gallows<ref>And that's if you're ''nice''.</ref>. This is, of course, [[Video Game Cruelty Potential|hugely entertaining]].

* In [[Strange Little Band]] the protagonists are thoroughly unpleasant people and almost seem like [[Villain Protagonist|Villain Protagonists]]. Then you meet the Antagonists, and you realize who the "heroes" are.

* In ''[[The Insane Quest]]'', it quickly becomes apparent that the members of Smoosh are not so much heroes as they are bystanders caught in the middle of a petty fight between two selfish gods. While their enemy, Segami, destroys planets, harms innocents and causes mayhem to accomplish his goals, their leader, Nintendoki...[[Not So Different|destroys planets, harms innocents and causes mayhem to accomplish his goals.]] The only real thing that sets Smoosh apart from their enemies is the fact that they realize when Nintendoki is telling them to do something wrong.

* In the [[Alternate History]].Com timeline ''[[Reds]]!'', the UASR is presented in a more positive light than most of the other governments of the time, but it is far from perfect. Amongst its abuses include the setting up of kangaroo courts and the execution of potentially innocent civilians (though nowhere near on the scale of Stalinist Russia).

* The Curse Of Maraqua plot of ''[[Neopets]]'' has two groups of pirate armies crashing against each other. While [[Chaotic Neutral|Garin]] himself is not the nicest guy in Neopia, he helps defend the new city of Maraqua against the [[Complete Monster|even worse]] [[Chaotic Evil|Captain Scarblade]].