Chewbacca Defense: Difference between revisions

<!-- Cochran states that Chewbacca is originally from Kashyyyk, but now lives on Endor. The footnote is not necessary. -->

 

{{quote|'''Isaac''': I don't really understand what's going on, but he just broke down crying. What do you suppose it means, Miria?

 

 

The sad part? ''It works''. Not just in media, but in [[Real Life]], too. In fact, most political systems are ''based'' on doing this.

* Having a point repeated over and over again.

* Shouting

* Having semantics or nitpicks about the argument come up repeatedly, either to tire out or distract the opponent, or to waste time.

 

Confusing, isn't it?

 

 

* In ''[[Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex]]'', The [[Amoral Attorney]] tries to get his cyborg client off for murdering his girlfriend by trying to have the trial focus on the supposed (read: completely fabricated) technophobic beliefs of the officer who shot him.

 

* Parodied in ''[[Asterix]] and the Laurel Wreath'', where both opposing lawyers on a case attempt to use the ''same'' Chewbacca Defence.

 

* ''[[The Vinyl Scratch Tapes]]'':

{{quote|'''Octavia:''' ''What do solving mysteries have to do with music anyway?''

'''Vinyl:''' ''Hurray, that means I win by default!'' }}

 

* ''[[Thank You for Smoking]]'' provides an excellent example of this trope when the protagonist, a pro-tobacco lobbyist, demonstrates this debate technique to his son.

{{quote|'''Nick:''' Okay, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavor of ice cream', you'd say:

** To top it off, the film begins with Naylor cleverly turning around criticism, convincing a juvenile cancer victim and TV talk show audience that in fact it's the cancer victims' advocate who's selling death, as the tobacco industry wants people alive to smoke while the advocates need them for their work. [[Mind Screw]].

** Plus when Joey has to write an essay on what's best about America, Nick replies "Our endless appeals system" with almost knee-jerk response time.

{{quote|'''Shoulder Devil:''' Reason number two: Look what I can do: ''**Does a one-handed handstand**''

'''Kronk:''' But... What does that have to do with-

'''Shoulder Angel:''' No, no... He's got a point. }}

* Most of ''[[Bee Movie]]'' uses this for comedy.

* In ''[[Animal House]]'', Otter somehow turns the charges against the Deltas for having sex with their drunk party guests into an attack on the fraternity system, which is an attack on college, which is an attack on America. Then all the Deltas march out humming ''The Star-Spangled Banner''.

* Surprisingly enough, it actually happened to ''[[Star Wars]]'' with Chewbacca himself. It's in the special features of the DVD set. When [[George Lucas]] proved too difficult for [[Executive Meddling|the executives to meddle with]] (thanks to Alan Ladd, Jr.), they turned to a different approach: "But the Wookiee has no pants!" knowing that changing that would require re-shooting a ''lot'' of scenes, which would put Lucas severely over budget. Thankfully, that didn't work either.

 

* In ''[[Gormenghast]]'', Steerpike uses this method to manipulate two mentally retarded sisters into doing his bidding and keeping quiet about it- after all, he must know what he's talking about if he uses so many long words...

* The [[Tom Clancy]] novel ''[[Executive Orders]]'' has politically-inexperienced President Jack Ryan questioned about abortion. He states that he's pro-life, but the decision should be left in the hands of the Senate. After he gets offstage, his Chief of Staff angrily points out that he just alienated the conservatives ''and'' the liberals; the former probably think he's using the Senate as an excuse, and the latter think the Senate is the only thing keeping him from rampaging all over a woman's right to choose. This is a rare example of an ''unintentional'' Chewie Defense (the CoS, incidentally, mentions that he himself is pro-choice).

{{quote|Senator Strom Thurmond (R-SC) set the record for longest filibuster with his 24-hour, 18-minute speech railing against a civil rights bill. Thurmond's oration obliterated the previous filibuster record, a 13-hour description by Daniel Webster of the massive dump he just took.}}

 

* On ''[[Community]]'' this is [[Amoral Attorney]] Jeff Winger's go to strategy as a lawyer. He particularly seems to like invoking 9/11. Subverted when he {{spoiler|uses it in Debate: his team loses, 50-8 (and the 8 were to Annie).}}

* In ''[[The Big Bang Theory]]'', Sheldon proves an exemplar of this. He gets into an argument with Stuart, the comic book store manager (about which Robin would make a better replacement Batman). They argue for hours, until Stuart says that he's tired of it and going home. They have this exchange:

{{quote|'''Sheldon:''' Then I win.

::and only gets more absurd from there.

** Best part? {{spoiler|She turns out to be ''his mother''!}}

* Many TV pundits make a ''living'' out of using this trope. Just about any public commentator of any political leaning may eventually end up here once they get enough fame. Of course, this calls for a lot of parodies -- [[Poe's Law|not always discernible from the real thing]].

** Which is parodied by [[Stephen Colbert]] of ''[[The Colbert Report]]'', who uses several variations of this when arguing with his guests, such as asking them why they hate America, and bombarding them with foolish overblown questions. He's even done this when arguing with ''himself'', creating circular arguments along the lines of the following: If you were sent to Gitmo unfairly, you'd be angry enough at the government to want to overthrow it, and hence you'd deserve to be sent to Gitmo.

* ''The [[Blackadder]]'' episode "Witchsmeller Pursivent". The evidence that Edmund is a witch includes that he was heard speaking to his cat, and that he feeds his horse carrots. [[It Makes Just As Much Sense in Context]].

 

* From ''[[The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy]]'' (original radio show):

{{quote|'''Zaphod:''' What are they? Clinically thick?

'''Ford:''' I think they're very clever; they're trying to confuse us to death. }}

 

== Stand Up Comedy ==

{{quote|'''Ron White:''' "I got kicked off the high school debate team for saying "Yeah?! Well, '''fuck you'''!!" I thought I had won. The other kid was speechless. I thought that was what we were tryin' to do."}}

 

== Theater ==

* The musical ''[[Chicago]]'' has a song titled Razzle Dazzle that explains the trope quite thoroughly. It includes the line, "How can they see [the truth] with sequins in their eyes?"

{{quote|'''Man:''' I feel funny about this! I feel funny!

'''Aunt Eller:''' You’ll feel funny when I tell your wife you’re carrying on with another woman.

'''Aunt Eller:''' Maybe not, but you’ll sure feel funny when I tell your wife you are. }}

 

* ''[[Sengoku Basara]]'': "[[Memetic Mutation|'My horse is a motorbike. Your argument is invalid.']]"

* ''[[Phoenix Wright]]'' is accused of doing this in the second game's final case by {{spoiler|his long lost rival, Edgeworth.}} It's arguable that Phoenix did so in that case to [[We Need a Distraction|stall for time]], as well as in the third case of the third game {{spoiler|in order to make the guilty party point out a detail of a piece of incriminating evidence introduced for the first time a few minutes ago, when he was out of the room - [[I Never Said It Was Poison|something he couldn't have known unless he was the killer]].}}

*** It's more than just the fact that {{spoiler|Apollo threatens to call a witness}}. The true killer {{spoiler|had to be a Borginian cocoon smuggler as was previously proven. So, Apollo says that if the witness admits he's a smuggler, thus proving that Daryan is his accomplice, it in turn decisively proves that the only one who could be the killer is Daryan himself, as he is the only smuggler with no alibi for the murder}}. On top of this, considering that {{spoiler|Borginian cocoon smuggling is punished with the death sentence in Borginia, if he admits he smuggled the cocoons during the current trial, the duty of punishment would fall on the American (Japanese in original version) courts instead of those of Borginia, meaning he would not be killed. So in other words, the killer must testify about his crimes, otherwise he will die, which means that there is no escape for the true killer.}}

* In ''[[Escape from Monkey Island]]'', amoral real-estate developer Ozzie Mandrill nearly succeeds in taking over the Caribbean with this method. All pirate disputes are settled with Insult Swordfighting and other insult-based games, but no one can understand Ozzie's Australian slang. Since no one who fights Ozzie can come up with the counter to his insults, he wins by default.

* Used offensively in ''[[Umineko no Naku Koro ni]]'' during the third arc. Battler has to prove that magic wasn't used to do something and rather than preparing actual logical arguments he just rushes on ahead and declares his victory before his opponent has any idea how the logic game even works. {{spoiler|She turns out to be really good at it when she's given a chance to think, however.}}

 

== Webcomics ==

*** Which generally translates to "if you are affirmative, and you fail to respond to an argument, no matter how stupid it is, the negative wins one of the 5 major points, and thus the debate." Many a person has won a debate with a Chewbacca Defense. Depending on the judge, calling the other person out on their defense may or may not help.

*** That's actually not winning, and they're awarding someone falsely when that happens. It's possible for a judge/host/whatever to not know anything about arguing.

* In [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0280.html strip #280] of ''[[The Order of the Stick]]'', one of the lawyers planned a Chewbacca Defense using a comically oversized boot, despite the fact that he was a part of the prosecution.

 

* [[The Nostalgia Critic]] review of ''[[Suburban Commando]]'' suggests using the line "I was '''FROZEN''' today!" randomly in an argument to "watch what happens". He demonstrates it by acting out an argument with himself, in which the person who is yelled at with the line stares with a confused and slightly horrified look before slowly backing out of the room.

** The list could itself be perceived as a straight example when someone tries to use it as proof that God does not exist.

*** That is actually on the list.

** [[Department of Redundancy Department|"Argument From Argumentation,"]] where one arguer just says God exists over and over until the opponent leaves, is practically a template for all the others. The opponent's arguments, since they're ignored anyway, are all written as "[Atheist's counterargument]."

* Pretty much any forum out there on the internet (politics, religion, video games, etc.) will see this happen at some point. Or at many points. [[Opinion Myopia|If someone believes they are right, they will fight to the death to make other forum members know that his opponent is dead wrong.]] Saying something like "I have to go to bed" or "I have to take a shower now" usually makes the opposition think they won by default because you supposedly "chickened out" or "are admitting defeat", even though you may really mean to leave to do something else more important. But hey, a [[Flame War]] is [[Serious Business]]!

** A lot of internet discussions will also end the moment someone calls the opposing side a [[Godwin's Law|Nazi]], racist, homophobe, sexist or some other derogatory name. It's designed to cut off any further communication because the opponent certainly doesn't want to be seen in that light. And let's not forget ''I don't wish to discuss this any further''.

*** Godwin's Law states that as any debate rages on, the probability of one side bringing up Hitler gets closer and closer to one. Between reasonable, intelligent people who know what they're talking about? Not a problem. On the Internet, which is practically the homeland of insane retards who have no clue about what they're talking about? Guaranteed. The "Hitler rule," a universal Internet rule established based on Godwin's Law, dictates that once the Godwin Point has been reached, the person who referenced Hitler or the Nazis has automatically lost the debate and there is to be no further discussion on the subject. A corollary to the rule, incidentally, holds that invoking Godwin's Law intentionally because you're sick of debating never works.

* The comedy styling of IMAO are almost all based around this (such as nuking the moon for world peace).

* This is how to win an edit war on [[The Other Wiki]], where the content is often controlled not by those with the more accurate information but by those with the strongest opinions.

{{quote|2006-04-29: bans two editors forever for making comments supporting Brandt, and then an hour later, now that they are unable to respond, accuses them of being the same person}}

* This was discussed in a video of ''[[Andrew Klavan on the Culture]]'' where the opposing argument can simply be defeated by telling them to shut up as to stopping them from speaking out their point of view.

 

* The trope name comes from the ''[[South Park]]'' episode "Chef Aid". In this episode, there was a parody of Johnnie Cochran who - bah, [http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103454/the-chewbacca-defense just see for yourself]. It makes even less sense if you consider the Chewbacca doesn't live on Endor, which isn't even a planet, but a moon.

* In an episode of ''[[Justice League]]'', when the [[Green Lantern]] is accused of a crime, [[The Flash]] becomes his attorney. He doesn't have a clue what to use to turn the case around, so he uses a Chewbacca defense. He ends his speech with "If the ring wasn't lit, you must acquit!" The result being both of them getting sentenced to death.

* Though this trope doesn't really happen in the "Apprentice Games" episode of ''[[Chowder]]'' (unless you count the awkward singing that drives everyone the hell out of the stadium) it is outright explained by Mung Dal in these words: "Winning isn't about being the best. It's about being so incredibly bad that no one can ignore you!"

* ''[[Family Guy]]'': Adam West uses this when Lois is running against him for mayor. Lois then wins the election by taking Brian's advice to do the same thing (she answers every question with "9/11").

''{audience cheers)'' }}

* A recent episode of ''[[The Simpsons]]'' involved Lisa joining the school's debate team. In her first debate, her opponent, a brunette girl, immediately circumvents the subject for debate in favor of breaking down Lisa's argument [[Completely Missing the Point|on the grounds that Lisa is a]] [[Dumb Blonde]]. Much to the chagrin of anyone with half a brain, [[Insane Troll Logic|it works]].

 

* [[wikipedia:Sophism|The Sophists of Ancient Greece]], making this [[Older Than Feudalism]].

** [[Straw Man|As described by their main opponents in Greek Philosophy]]. [[Missing Episode|What they actually thought is gone]].

** In fact they are the origin for the modern term ''sophistry''.

** This is [http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~shallit/euler.html almost certainly untrue], however - Diderot was actually a very good mathematician and Euler was too thoughtful to use such an asinine tactic.

** Incidentally, in his book ''To be a Trial Lawyer,'' F. Lee Bailey wrote disapprovingly that if a client is guilty, then a lawyer's best bet is to get the most unintelligent jury possible.

* High school and college debate in the US can get ''extremely'' convoluted. Since the point of competitive debate is not just to argue about a topic, but to defeat your opponent, most debate strategy is built around trying to trip up the other side. As a result, some coaches feel that implausible and goofy arguments are ''better'', since it forces the other side to waste time trying to respond. If they ignore the argument, you can claim that you won the point since they didn't respond properly. The classic example is if you're arguing against a resolution, you try to prove that their plan will eventually lead to nuclear war, even if it's about something like homelessness or health care. Sometimes debaters will respond to an argument like that by agreeing that it will cause nuclear war, but that nuclear war is a ''good'' thing. The "correct" way to respond to it is to refute it with specific evidence in your debate file, taking advantage of your ability to speak last. Another method is to not even argue about the topic but object to your opponent's argument on philosophical grounds (e.g. accuse them of being racist or sexist). Depending on the judge, calling them out on their rule abusing Chewbacca Defense may or may not result in it getting dismissed. * "Derailing for Dummies" outlines steps to win any argument by derailing it with a Chewbacca Defense. On the other hand, people who have read the website can also try to win arguments by accusing any counterargument to their point of being "derailment."

** Averted in the UK, which uses the "British Parliamentary" and "World Schools" formats, where using a Chewbacca defense can and will get you marked down heavily by the judge.

** '''Especially''' when it comes to the [[Flame Bait|divisive topics]].

* Politicians.

* The internet.

 

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{{reflist}}

[[Category:Absurdity Ascendant]]

[[Category:The Courtroom Index]]

[[Category:Dirty Social Tricks]]

[[Category:Logical Fallacies]]