Contested Sequel: Difference between revisions
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** Force is a good example as well. A lot of fans dislike the new characters, the slow pace, the overall [[Darker and Edgier]] feeling, the somewhat questionable writing, and {{spoiler|Signum suffering the [[Worf Effect]].}}
* ''[[Naruto|Naruto Shippuden]]'' has become a Contested Sequel over time due to the [[Spotlight-Stealing Squad|focus put on Sasuke and the Uchiha Clan]].
* If it's a series of ''[[Digimon]]'' that's not ''[[Digimon Adventure]]'', it's a
** The most contested is easily ''[[Digimon Frontier]]'' for its significant departure from the [[Mons]] premise; ''[[Digimon Xros Wars]]'' also gets this for similar reasons, though it's generally regarded higher than ''Frontier''. ''[[Digimon Tamers]]'' and ''[[Digimon Savers]]'' get it for being [[Darker and Edgier]] (and in ''Tamers'''s case, [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|not being another direct sequel]] to ''Adventure''), and ''[[Digimon Adventure 02]]'' tends to get criticised under [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks]]. Of course, all of them have their supporters, especially ''02'' and ''Tamers''; [[Broken Base]] fun ensues.
** Adding another layer to the ''02'' [[Broken Base]] comes the fact that most of the cast from ''Adventure'' (that is, anyone who's not T.K. or Kari, or their respective 'mons) got [[Demoted to Extra]]. Although ''02'' had only become officially cracked at the epilogue. Oh, and the whole [[Strangled by the Red String|'Sora chose Matt and not Tai']] thing.
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== Classical Music ==
* Hector Berlioz's ''Lélio, ou Le retour à la vie'' is a
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* ''[[Terminator]] 3: Rise of the Machines'' is a very contested sequel.
** The main points of contention are ''T3'' contradicting the underlying message of the previous movie - "[[Screw Destiny|There is no fate but what we make for ourselves]]" - but it also had many plot developments that changed the nature of the series (such as Sarah having died of cancer, Brewster being behind Skynet all along, and the titular rise of the machines). In fact, these developments were responsible for ''Terminator 3'' being completely ignored by the TV series ''Terminator: [[The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'' - however, new Terminator films ''do'' follow ''T3'', such as ''Terminator Salvation'', set [[After the End]] / [[During the War|During the]] [[Robot War]].
** The contested nature of the film is compounded by the fact that ''The Terminator'' was very clearly set in a [[Stable Time Loop]]. This means that [[You Can't Fight Fate]] is true, even if the characters ''believe'' it isn't. They say things like "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves," but it's obvious that the time travel event itself is what precipitates everything, paradoxical as it may seem. Indeed, there was a deleted scene from ''T1'' where the remains of the Terminator were unearthed and taken for study, thus ensuring the construction of SkyNet. ''Terminator 2'' violated this by allowing SkyNet to be destroyed and the future irrevocably change. ''Terminator 3'' could be said to be restoring the original message of ''T1'': you can't [[Screw Destiny]], so you may as well make the best of
** Alternately, the characters in the first ''Terminator'' believe they are in a [[Stable Time Loop]], but ''Terminator 2'' proves them wrong. Consider that the rules of time travel were created by Skynet as a desperate last resort - in which case, Skynet might either be lying about the nature of time travel, or simply mistaken.
** The Terminator series is basically a "pick your own moral." T1, you can't fight fate. T2, screw destiny. T3 on, you can screw destiny, but destiny likes three ways.
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** A main complaint was that {{spoiler|as close as the original trilogy came, it never quite broke [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]] because the crazy stuff happened after you'd slowly been worked to accept it. The 4th film broke people's [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]] with a nuclear-powered sledgehammer far too early in the film, instead of easing people into the Nazi-face-melting like the earlier films did}}.
** The abundance of CGI shots (the very first shot is a CGI ''molehill'') didn't go over well either. Things like armies of killer ants and gigantic temples were forgivable, but many other cases just felt out-of-place in an Indy movie.
** Long before that, ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom|Temple of Doom]]'' was something of a contested sequel: a successful variation on the Indy concept, or just [[Darker and Edgier|too dark]] and [[
* While ''[[Batman Returns]]'' did better ''critically'' than the first [[Tim Burton]] ''[[Batman (film)|Batman]]'' movie, it is often disliked among comic book fans for making the Penguin [[The Grotesque]] instead of a [[Gentleman Thief]]. Of course, the same people may or may not have a bigger problem with Batman actually killing someone in the first movie, but that's just because they forget him using the bomb on the Circus Gang's strongman in ''Returns''.
** ''[[Batman Forever]]'' is either a fun if inferior (mainly for being [[Lighter and Softer]]) follow-up to ''Returns'' or as bad as the [[Franchise Killer|franchise-killing]] [[Batman and Robin (film)|travesty that followed.]]
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* ''[[Spider-Man (film)|Spider-Man]] 3'' was a highly-anticipated sequel riding off the wave of critical and commercial acclaim its previous films had garnered, and was the highest-grossing of the three films when it was released. However, critical response was evenly split between general audiences who enjoyed the story and the new characters, and comic book fans (and even some long-time fans of the films) who felt that the third film was a betrayal of all the plot threads that had been set up in the prior two films. It didn't help that ''3'' was subject to some extensive [[Executive Meddling]] on the part of Sony Pictures and Marvel head honcho Avi Arad, who canned a prior story treatment focusing on The Vulture and Sandman and forced several disparate plot elements into the film - including fan favorite Venom, who wound up getting the short shift in terms of screen time. There is very little middle ground when it comes to opinion on the film.
* The various sequels to the [[Godzilla]] franchise fall under this trope. Fans who complained that the American Godzilla movie was too different are also now complaining that the later Japanese films are too predictable due to Toho "not willing to take any risks."
** And then came ''Godzilla Final Wars,'' which was neither predictable nor unrisky . . . but is absolutely unlike any other Godzilla film, and thus is a love-it-or-hate it
* ''[[Home Alone]] 3''. Some hate it due to the different characters and further straining suspension of disbelief (a young boy defeats four spies with Rube Goldberg-style traps?!), while others (like [[Roger Ebert]]) actually like it better than the previous two for reasons like better traps and a more plausible reason for being home alone (being sick from school rather than being mistakenly left behind while his family is on vacation at some point).
* ''[[Final Destination]] 2'' is a very different film from both the original film and ''[[Final Destination]] 3''. It has a largely adult cast (rather than the teenaged protagonists of the other two films), has a greater emphasis on comedy and treats the visions rather differently. It also had a different director and writer. Generally fans of the series either dislike it or feel it is their favorite of the lot. Unlike the first film, ''Final Destination 2'''s methods of killing off the players were at least plausible, especially compared to the killer shower head in the first movie. This alone reduced the cheesiness of an otherwise interesting concept in some viewer's minds.
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* ''[[Saw]] III''.
** It amps up the gore and the [[Squick]] considerably from the first two, to levels that are not seen elsewhere in the series. There is much debate over whether or not this is a good thing. ''Much'' debate.
** It didn't stop there. Even after ''Saw III'', ''four'' more sequels were made, all of which contain even more [[Nightmare Fuel]] that either drove fans away or gained more [[Nightmare Fetishist
* The ''[[Scream (film)|Scream]]'' trilogy has been quite contested as well. None of the fans seem to agree on which movie was the best or the worst. Some say that the 3rd was the weakest of the series. Others say it was an improvement over the second, but both pale in comparison to [[First Installment Wins|the first.]] Then there are some who say that the second was better than the first, and so on and so forth...
* ''Firestarter 2: Rekindled'' is a sequel to the 1984 movie ''[[Firestarter]]''. The first movie was a decent portrayal of the [[Stephen King]] book it was based on. The sequel was made by people who didn't even pretend to have read the book (or seen the original movie, for that matter). This included having the [[Big Bad]] be the same in both movies even though {{spoiler|he was killed in the first one.}} On the other hand, ''Firestarter 2'' has special effects that a movie made in the 80s could not.
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** Larry Niven had originally intended it to be a one-off novel, but many fans wrote in to point out scientific or practical errors such as the fact that the Ringworld is unstable and the question of why its builders didn't build lots of small rings (a la [[Iain M Banks|Iain M. Banks']] ''[[The Culture|Culture]]'' novels) instead, which would be much easier to defend. Niven decided to write ''The Ringworld Engineers'' to address these questions. Whether this addition improved the Ringworld or merely diluted its premise is a matter of debate among fans.
** Other fans are okay with ''The Ringworld Engineers'', but feel that the ''last'' two books in the series were where [[Sequelitis]] started setting in.
* Detractors of [[Roger Zelazny|Roger Zelazny's]] second series of [[Book of Amber|Amber]] novels point out that it swaps out the hero of the first series, a [[Magnificent Bastard]] defined by his determination and ability to pull of [[Xanatos Gambit
* A few reviewers felt this way about ''[[The Heroes of Olympus]]''. While the book is generally thought of as ''good'', many believe that [[Rick Riordan]] should definitely end the [[Percy Jackson and The Olympians]] with this series, and not a ''third'' Great Prophecy. Thankfully, Rick has stated that he's going to be careful not to go overboard with the sequels.
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** Also: that the game '''is''' ''incredibly'' repetitive. The multiplayer, as well, especially online multiplayer. While it's great on its own, it had one crippling feature: in a three- or four-player battle, if only one player disconnects, ''the entire match ends'', instead of cutting off the quitter and keeping the match going with the remaining players.
* ''[[Super Smash Bros.]] Brawl'':
** It greatly suffers from this in the communities of the previous games. The [[
** The Adventure mode is contested enough to be considered almost separately. It's either the kind of thing players really, really wanted when they first played the adventure from
* [[4X|4X games]] are very prone to this, especially the [[Civilization]] series. For every fan who believes that a new feature adds some much-needed realism to the game, [[Unpleasable Fanbase|there's another who thinks that it's ruining the spirit of the franchise and wants it taken out in the next sequel]].
** Which is probably part of the reason the last two ''Civilization'' installments are designed from the start to be easily moddable. That allows fans to do whatever they want, even turn it into a remake of the non-Sid-Meier ''Civilization: Call to Power''.
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* The ''[[Street Fighter III]]'' series is a big hot point among many fans, particularly "old-schoolers" who are more familiar with the ''[[Street Fighter II]]'' and ''[[Street Fighter Alpha|Alpha]]'' games, who claim that parries (the ability to counter an attack without being stuck in block stun) kill the flow of the game, while its fans say that parries are what make the game great.
** ''[[Street Fighter IV]]'' tries to find a middle ground; while parries are absent, the Focus mechanic allows something relatively similar in that you can absorb one hit (or, in special cases, two) and exploit the advantage. The original arcade release focused on the 12 original World Warrior and Boss characters (plus Akuma) with 4 new characters. The original home release, and then [[Capcom Sequel Stagnation|Super and AE editions]]added more characters from ''III'' and ''Alpha''. However, this brings ''new'' complaints, in that the hodgepodge of old gameplay elements and characters are accused of being shallow shells of their former incarnations, with little of what made them fun or interesting.
* In the world of ''[[Command & Conquer]]'', C&C Tiberian Dawn is the only game that isn't a sequel, and is consequently the only game that isn't a
* ''[[Ecco the Dolphin]]: Defender of the Future'', mainly due to completely abandoning the older games' storyline for a story written by someone who'd never played them. [[Internet Backdraft|Fierce wars have been fought]], but at this point the fandom seems to have more or less agreed to disagree.
* Depending on what mood Wikipedia is in on a given week, ''[[Vandal Hearts]] II'' is either "vastly superior" or "vastly inferior" to ''[[Vandal Hearts]] I.'' If you bought the second game after playing through the first expecting more of the same (at least semi-)realistic looking characters, nasty-looking animated monsters, and floating backgrounds, as well as gore, character classes, intriguing narration and CGI cut scenes, you're definitely going to be disappointed to find that all the characters in the second game are now animeish, with tiny bodies, over-sized heads and no mouths, the first monsters you encounter are now just cartoonish snakes, no cut scenes, and character classes are now based on equipment along with enemies that can dodge attacks.
* ''[[Mega Man (video game)|Mega Man]]'' has entire series that are contested in this manner, particularly ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]]'' and its followup ''[[Mega Man Star Force]]''. [[RPG
* Hello, ''[[Call of Duty]]: World at War'' and ''[[Modern Warfare]] 2''. It's argued whether the former deserves the merit of being called a sequel despite the change in setting, and it doesn't help that many disliked on the principle it was made by [[Only the Creator Does It Right|Treyarch instead of Infinity Ward]] or was a [[World War II]] game. The latter's major complaint is that it went too far into the [[Rule of Cool]], hurting the more realistic impression [[Modern Warfare]] gave. For PC gamers, the major complaint with Modern Warfare 2 was the lack of Dedicated Servers and mod tools.
* ''[[Deus Ex: Invisible War|Deus Ex Invisible War]]'':
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** ''Banjo-Tooie'' as well. While the game play was virtually unchanged from the original (aside from some new moves for Banjo and Kazooie), the worlds were about triple the size, and each was connected to other worlds in some way, thus necessitating some backtracking in order to get some of the Jiggies. While many fans loved and embraced these changes, other fans of the original preferred the smaller worlds and being able to get all of the Jiggies in one sitting (conveniently forgetting about the second bobsled race in Freezeezy Peak).
* ''[[Tetris the Grand Master]] 3''. Some ''TGM'' fans view it as an improvement on ''TGM2'', raising the challenge through faster speeds and at the same time making the game more intuitive to play through a 3-piece preview, hold piece, and a fix for the problem involving trying to rotate an I piece into a hole one cell wide. Others see these features as [[It's Easy, So It Sucks|dumbing down TGM]] and the increase in speed as [[Fake Difficulty]].
* Although definitions of sequel may differ here, ''[[Xenosaga]]'' is often contested when it's remembered that it was meant to be a spiritual successor to ''[[Xenogears]]''. Although set to be done under a new company, ''Xenosaga'' was originally toted to be the beginning of a massive multi-episode story only hinted to in ''Xenogears''
* ''[[Grand Theft Auto IV]]''. Some love it for its realism, rich characters, production values and gritty nature, while others chastise it for those very things, preferring the zany, cartoony, over the top style of San Andreas and Vice City. Thankfully, the ''[[Saints Row]]'' series offers that experience, leaving everyone happy in the end.
* ''[[The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion]]'':
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* Some will argue that ''[[An American Tail]]: Fievel Goes West'' is better than the first movie because it's [[Lighter and Softer|not as depressing]] and it spends more time developing secondary characters, plus, you know, it has [[John Cleese]] playing a villain. Others would argue that making the movie [[Lighter and Softer]] completely took away what made the first movie so great in the first place.
* ''[[All Dogs Go to Heaven|All Dogs Go to Heaven 2]]''. While most fans of the first movie consider the second to be totally inferior because they say that it mostly lacks everything from the original, some say that it's a superior followup to the original because it's [[Lighter and Softer|not depressing]] and it has a good story with catchy songs.
* Season 2 of [[My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic|My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic]] seems to be heading in this direction due to [[Lauren Faust]] [[Only the Creator Does It Right|quitting the show,]] with an increase on [[Parental Bonus|pop-culture references]], [[Fandom Nod
** Though a lot of the complaints seem to have subsided now that most of the season is out.
* ''[[The Ren and Stimpy Show]]'''s "Adult Party Cartoon." Many fans of the original show criticized the show's revival for being completely different than the show they grew up with, for being too dirty, and for being poorly written. However, fans of the APC praise it for going back to John K's roots and original ideas, which were snatched away from him when he was fired and Games took Spumco's place. Fans of the APC praise the show for its humor (which they claim wasn't THAT dirtier than the original series,) the noticeably smoother, more dynamic animation, and the writing. While non-fans despise the show for having "ruined" Ren and Stimpy, fans call the APC a "masterpiece."
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