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Final Fantasy VIII/WMG: Difference between revisions
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** Then again, considering Squall is a soldier, it's not too far fetched to believe he could have died before Rinoa even gets old. Heck, I even met people on forums claiming he died during the fight against Ultimecia and Rinoa is hallucinating during the final scene.
*** The issue is that Ultimecia lives generations into the future, well beyond the lifespans of any of the characters from the game's present, including Rinoa. Not to mention that the theory flies in the face of the game's themes about the importance of having [[True Companion]] and the [[Power of Love]], since it means that Squall was right to start with and everyone would have been better off if he'd remained alone and unhappy.
*** The theory isn't about ''Squall'', though, it's about ''Rinoa''. The bigger issue here is that the [[Stable Time Loop]] and all the talk about fate and inevitability flies in the face of the supposed 'happy ending' that the characters create, as they completely fail to stop Ultimecia ''before'' she is created and instead only stop her from doing the worst thing imaginable, ''after'' she develops a grudge against SeeD and humanity. For all the talk about Nakama and the Power of Friendship and Love, respectively, they hardly make a ''dent'' in Ultimecia coming about. Personally, 'Rinoa is put into cold stasis due to her Sorceress powers for an unspecified period of time, and her hatred of what went wrong twists her into Ultimecia' makes slightly more sense than 'Squall and Rinoa live happily ever after, but Rinoa ends up passing on her powers down the line until some other woman ends up becoming an evil Sorceress because humans fear what they can't understand. By that point, it's [[Somebody
**** ...how is "Squall and Rinoa being together ultimately proves destructive because Rinoa goes crazy from losing Squall and becomes the monster they fought to defeat, forcing Squall to kill her" in any way a better or happier ending than "Squall is on the road to getting over his issues and, yeah, Ultimecia will rise sometime in the future but we already know she'll lose because Squall and company will travel into the future to defeat her"?
** Wait, what? What does Ultimania state ''exactly''? That Sorceresses have normal human lifespan, that Rinoa is not Ultimecia, or '''both'''? The last time [[Silent Reverence|I]] played the game and discussed it with a friend, we found interesting that at one point in the game Rinoa is encased in Esthar in a Adel-esque fashion ''because of the sorceress powers''. Then Squall took the path to rescue her and she made it a point during a later discussion (can't remember the point of the game) that in the end she expected him to do so. Had Squal ''not done so'' (as he originally wasn't), Rinoa could have been in suspended animation for whatever time is needed, developing a (justified) grudge against [[SEE Ds]] and longing for the Knight Who Never Came. And there is a specific crisis point, close to the end of Disk 2, where Rinoa's mindset seems to be much alike what Ultimecia is stated to desire -- in particular, something about not wanting for time to pass if Squall was not around. Pretty much what one may feel trapped IN SPACE forever, seeing that Adel him/herself was mostly partly conscious most of the time (Disc 1). Long story short, ''Alternate Universe Rinoa''.
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== Ultimecia was born ''because'' Squall and co. defeated her. ==
Okay, try to bear with me. I found this one on [[Game FAQs]]. So, Squall and Co. defeat Ultimecia and are hailed as heroes. Now people know that there will be a evil sorceress in the future called Ultimecia. Eventually, this information is lost and found, twisted, and so forth, and people start hunting down sorceresses. This keeps going on and on, like witchhunts. Eventualy, one sorceress snaps: "God damnit, [[Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds|I haven't done anything yet but]] ''still'' you claim I will kill millions of people! [[Make Your Own Villain|FINE]]! [[Then Let Me Be Evil|LET'S KILL THEN]]!" So she starts killing and BECOMES Ultimecia trough her actions. Now, she knows she will be killed, but figures: "Screw you fate, I will win" and goes on with her Time Compression plan. She refuses to acknowledge that history can't be changed and we get our game. This creates a stable time loop, where Ultimecia is defeated, sorceresses are persecuted and eventually one of them snaps, creating Ultimecia.
* Isn't that what ''actually happens?'' [[Esoteric Happy Ending|The ending of the game as is]] [[Inferred Holocaust|isn't exactly a happy one, after all.]]
** Not really. Between Adel, Edea, and others implied before them, this never happened. [[Wild Mass Guessing|No reason to believe that fear of something so distant from people would propagate like that so far into the future.]] Nice Fanon/Fanwank, though.
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The fact that a sorceress Ultimecia, who hailed from the future, was going to cause death and destruction is something we already know the people of the world know. The fact that she was killed by a gunblade specialist - a very rare trait - would also be carried to the future. So, when Ultimecia saw a man of the right age and using the right weapon to kill her, she thought this would have to be the man - who else knows how to use a gunblade, much less at such a young age? Not to mention that Zell had just said that they were all from Garden - where she '''knew''' the man destined to kill her was from.
* Given that Seifer ''does'' [[
== "Whatever." ==
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Naturally, this being a jRPG, the reject brigade saves the entire universe.
== Ultimecia is a [[Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds|horribly]] [[Break the Cutie|broken]] [[Bad Future|future]] Rinoa. ==
Specifically, around [[Twenty Minutes Into the Future|fifteen years or so after the ending]], Rinoa's [[The Masquerade|secret of being a Sorceress]] is revealed to the world. The wounds from the previous Sorceress conflict [[Too Soon|still not entirely healed]], this goes about [[Burn the Witch|as well as you'd expect]], and [[Ungrateful Bastard|most of the world rises up to]] kill her before she goes [[Axe Crazy]]. [[The Champion|Squall]] [[Badass|declares war on the entire world]] in order to protect her. Sadly, [[War Is Hell]], and no matter how much of a [[Badass Army]] he commands, the forces of several entire nations wear them down over a number of years until, eventually, the heroes from the game are pretty much all that's left. As they slowly fall, Rinoa starts [[Jumping Off the Slippery Slope|edging towards the slope]], [[The Power of Love|with Squall as the main force holding her in check]]. And, once he finally falls, [[Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds|Rinoa finally]] [[Unstoppable Rage|snaps]] a la [[Elfen Lied|Lucy]], [[Super Mode|unleashes her]] [[Let's Get Dangerous|powers]] [[One
Rinoa resolves to somehow go back and [[Set Right What Once Went Wrong]], and knows from experience that by achieving [[Instrumentality|Time Compression]], [[Neon Genesis Evangelion|she can be with her beloved again]]. However, she doesn't have the time or experience wielding Time Magic to accomplish this, so she spends the rest of her life researching a way to [[Grand Theft Me|transfer her mind along with her powers when she dies]]. In this way, [[Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep|she'll have until the end of time to learn what she needs to]]. However, she uses the name of the current host Sorceress instead of her own.... [[Continuity Nod|and untold generations later a woman by the name of Ultimecia is born...]] Ultimecia becomes the latest host to Sorceress Rinoa, and it is in this period that she finally figures out how to achieve [[Instrumentality|Time Compression]].
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However, [[Chekhov's Gunman|the White SeeD]] have been fighting a war of attrition across generations to try and stop this, and they actually come close to winning because [[Orcus On His Throne|Rinultimecia has been occupied with her studies, and only rarely gets involved with the battle herself]], normally leaving it to the monsters summoned in repeated Lunar Cries.
Just as she nears her goal, though, Rinultimecia suddenly realizes that Time Compression would be really, really bad - i.e., a [[Negative Space Wedgie]] of horrific proportions - and alters her plan at the last minute to using Junction Machine Ellone so that she can [[Sharing a Body|Junction herself to her]] ''[[Sharing a Body|original]]'' [[Sharing a Body|self]]. However, [[Future Me Scares Me|Rinultimecia Terrifies Rinoa]], which results in something kind of like an [[Angst Coma]]. This is when Rinoa's passed out/possessed in Disc Three. Rinultimecia has a stronger will, which means she can move their shared body around, but not enough so that she can [[Uncanny Valley|move it fluidly]], resulting in the [[Zombie Gait]] when Rinoa gets up and moves. However, because she can't communicate effectively with Squall or Rinoa to explain what she's doing, everything goes horribly wrong ''almost'' [[Yank the
Rinultimecia [[Sequential Boss|tries everything she can think of to calm the heroes, or at least Squall, down]]. She creates Griever, the Squall's ideal of strength and pride, as a sort of [[Trust Password]], but Squall doesn't take the bait. She ends up resorting to [[Disney Death|temporarily removing the other heroes from the timestream]] to get Squall alone, but he mistakenly believes that his [[True Companions]] have been [[Killed Off for Real]], and [[Unstoppable Rage|flips out]]. Upon realizing that there's no way to make Squall recognize who she is, [[Despair Event Horizon|her heart finally breaks completely]], accepts that [[You Can't Fight Fate]], and lets her once and future husband-to-be [[Mercy Kill|put her out of her misery]] after [[No Ontological Inertia|ensuring that all of her magicks will undo themselves upon her death]], [[I Want My Beloved to Be Happy|allowing Squall and past-Rinoa]] to live [[Happily Ever After]].... [[Tear Jerker|but only]] [[Stable Time Loop|for a time]].
To summarize: Ultimecia is basically a fusion of [[Elfen Lied|the Diclonius]] [[Break the Cutie|Lucy]] and [[Neon Genesis Evangelion|Gendo]] [[Jerkass Woobie|Ikari]], whose [[Grand Theft Me|methodology]] [[Anti
Addendum: This also explains the [[Foe Yay]] in Dissidia - because of the war of the gods, Ultimecia has forgotten the ''exact'' nature of her feelings about Squall, but still remembers that they were quite strong, and would act accordingly... if only she could remember if it were [[Belligerent Sexual Tension|love or hate]]....
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** Original poster here: Rinultimecia remembered how those attempts had made her original self stronger as well as being important points in her relationship with Squall, and had to ensure that it was a [[Stable Time Loop]] until she saw an opportunity to drive everything [[Off the Rails]].
*** But if that's the case, why wouldn't she also remember that her past self would be terrified of and resist her, and that her efforts would result in Squall fighting against and trying to kill her? Why is she coherent enough to make a whole [[New Era Speech]] in disc 1 and verbally identify Squall as "the legendary SeeD destined to face me" in disc 2, but not enough to try to communicate to him that she is in fact Rinoa and just trying to reunite with him?
**** OP: <raises hand and opens mouth, promptly shuts it> .... [[Beat]] Hrm. That..... is a ''really'' good point. [[Logic Bomb|I'll get back to you on that one]]. EDIT: Rinultimecia herself had forgotten about the whole [[Future Me Scares Me]] thing, the speech was [[Fighting From the Inside|Edea]] ''[[Poor Communication Kills|mistaking]]'' Rinultimecia for an actual villain and trying in vain to orchestrate a [[Heroic Sacrifice]]/[[Taking You With Me]] by painting a big red target on herself. Throwing her consciousness back in time used up a lot of Rinultimecia's concentration, so she wasn't able to adequately explain herself to Edea, and that was ''her'' making those remarks. Edea was genuinely under the impression that Rinultimecia was villainous, she was [[Well
== Ultimecia is possessed by the Dark Cloud. ==
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