Gargoyles/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

** We usually see yuppie couple at the beginning of the night or with a throw away line about what they were up to. Xanatos is a harder one to understand. He's Ceo of a company and supposedly would need to handle some of the day to day operations of said company. The only think I can think is maybe he has some chemicals in his suit that make him stay awake all the time. :P As for some of the other characters that pop to mind: Macbeth is stated to follow the gargoyle lifestyle, as are the hunters, Owen probably does not sleep, and that's about it :P

 

** I am pretty sure there are plenty of days between episodes and therefore adventures; people like Xanatos and Macbeth have plenty of time to catch up on their sleep in between with, say, a 12-16 hour snooze and simply pull all nighters when they need to, sometimes for a couple of days in a row.

*** This troper has actually heard that some CEO of big companies end up doing just this.

 

== In "Temptation," Goliath is placed under a spell that forces him to obey the commands of anybody holding the pages containing said spell. ==

* Most likely, yes, they destroyed it.

* Also, this was as far as I remember the only command that stated how long he should do it. Maybe, if Demona said something like "Hunt Brooklyn until he's dead", a contradictory command would do nothing.

 

== Why do Goliath's clan show concern for Demona's safety whenever they work together, to the point of risking their own lives to back her up, when they know perfectly well that {{spoiler|Demona cannot die unless killed by Macbeth}}? ==

** They don't know that. Also Word of God says Demona and Macbeth are not given immortality according to the spell. They are given eternal youth as long as they both live, but if one dies they both die. That they will not die until one kills the other is not part of the spell, but a prophecy.

*** Actually, it ''might'' be part of the spell or a prophecy.

** In the Gargoyles universe all time is simultaneous and immutable. There doesn't need to be a first cause because the entire loop all exists together as a single event. it's like the old paradox of going back in time to meet Martin Luther king only to be dismayed because he's having trouble writing his "I have a dream" speech. So you write it from memory for him. So you got the speech from TV/school/books. but the TV/school/Books got the speech from him, but he got it from you.The speech didn't really come from anywhere. Gargoyles is 100% consistent on this too. When you get used to the way time travel works in the series this kind of thing makes a weird sort of sense. (Note: "Watchmen" and "The Time Traveler's Wife" and "The Terminator" [but not ''necessarily'' its sequels] among others use this same model for time Travel.)

** Both of these instances make Journeymen the world over cry. Not the apprenticeship-thing, I mean the time-traveling Dr. Who in diving bell suit guys. If both occurrences had been with other people, it would work...Perhaps even swapping the two of them, though that would drastically change the plotline of Vows, it would be far less thinky-hurty. As it stands, how would time be immutable if you could easily avert it with one or two actions? More accurately, there would either be a dimensional split between the two timelines, or memories upon return would change slightly. (The gate being a Fae artifact, there are probably limitations set in stone by magic. You are not allowed to change history THAT much...but you could potentially move the tracks a little.) Without theoretical magical interference, it should be quite simple to tell the Captain that Hakon has no intention of keeping his promise, and so as soon as the vikings chased off the Magus, they would be trapped inside as the gate closed, the Captain could blockade the doors to the castle walls, and then he could wait for the Gargoyles to emerge. Something must happen that either stops the newly enlightened Demona from telling the captain anything, or it barred her from seeing him or the other Gargoyles until the attack.

** Also note: the Gate isn't a Fae artifact. Well, that's not clear anymore. Originally, [[Word of God]] said the Gate was eternal, but when the comic where Brookly begins timedancing was actually published, it was shown breaking open and releasing a Phoenix. But we can assume the Phoenix is eternal.

 

*** Hopefully Weisman will add it to the comics at one point, but with more intelligent antagonists. He HAS mentioned liking it IIRC, possibly the only one of Chronicles he did.

*** The full story is [http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=9873 a little more complicated than that]. Suffice it to say that ''all'' of the Chronicles are personally painful for him to watch, and more to the point he hasn't actually seen any of them other than "The Journey" since the late [[The Nineties|Nineties]]. But he doesn't hold the overall low quality of the season against the new creative staff, who were placed under ridiculously tight deadlines and cost-cutting measures as a result of [[Executive Meddling]], and so he slipped a line from the episode into canon as "a nice tribute to all the hard work that the TGC crew put in, with little thanks or reward."

 

== What is that thing around one of Fox's eyes? I assumed it was makeup, until the werewolf episode and her eye still had the blue thing around it in wolf form. ==

* I was always under the impression it was a birthmark, and most likely a sign of her inherent fey heritage.

* [[Word of God]] says it's a tattoo.

 

== Why didn't Goliath just use the Phoenix Gate to return to Manhattan as soon as he left Avalon? In later episodes he says he wants to see it all through, but he didn't have such an attitude when first venturing from Avalon. ==

* Also keep in mind that Xanatos did not in fact want Goliath dead in Awakening; his commandos were plants to frame the rival company. They didn't have to be competent; their job was to either find a statue or be seen as hostile by the gargoyle. Using anybody capable of actually hurting Goliath would've been dangerous.

* Well, you're assuming most gargoyles would bother learning any formal fighting techniques in the first place. Most of the time they seem to fight in a very primitive and "bestial" manner (in case of doubt, throw something large), relying more on their superior strength and speed than on any formal training. (Notice that the only member of the Manhattan clan we ever see regularly using a weapon is Hudson, who is older than dirt even by gargoyle standards. No doubt he's compensating for his fading strength due to advancing age.) Demona, being effectively un-killable, has even ''less'' incentive than the average gargoyle to learn how to fight properly.

*** As clan leader Goliath may be an exception to the rule. I imagine gargoyle society works in a very "pack"-like way, with the roughest, toughest m* ther-f* cker in the clan usually being the one in charge until someone else challenges them and forces them out (Demona herself advises Goliath to ''overthrow'' Hudson because he's too old and weak to lead). Also, most of the time when Demona overpowered Goliath she did so through trickery or using some sort of magic or high-tech gadgetry. Off the top of my head I can't think of an instance where Demona actually bested Goliath in single combat. I think Elisa's warning to Goliath was in reference to the fact that he'd never captured or killed her, only foiled her schemes. That said, I can't really think of an explanation for the Macbeth issue...

**** Every time this has come up in the series, it's been at the discretion of the clan leader. Hudson ''chose'' to step down in favor of Goliath, and Goliath ''chose'' to make Brooklyn his second-in-command due to his clear-headedness in that episode.

** Also, even given the knowledge in the abstract, the guy took a nap, woke up, and Demona seemed more or less the same age. Without any signs of her lifespan enforcing her centuries on this earth, it can be very easy to forget.

** Both she and Xanatos lied to them. Remember, Xanatos told them that Demona was hit by the same spell and went through the same thousand year sleep all of them did. At that point, nobody corrected that piece of information, so as far as Hudson knows, she is younger than him. Though, as cocky as she is, one would think that would be the best time to correct him. "Fool, while you were sleeping, I fought the humans for centuries." or something.

*** It's not just that episode, it's a major aspect of her character. She's stayed largely unchanged since betraying Macbeth because to do otherwise would force her to face up to her own part in all the crimes she blames on humanity. She's a perfect example of the aesop about those who don't learn from history.

 

* The same thing can be asked of "City of Stone". Realistically speaking, simply having one of the worlds largest cities out of commission for five to ten hours two days in a row would be enough to cause a nationwide panic.

** City of Stone actually did have several car wrecks in the streets. As for hospitals, City of Stone has the excuse of them being, well, stone. If they're made of stone, then whatever is killing them will be put into stasis. Sun rises, and the doctor continues work as usual, and doesn't think anything of it until he glances at his watch.

** And what people thought when they turned back and spotted the former statues Demona had smashed?

*** Or, for that matter, the ones who only suffered non-fatal injury?

*** This troper personally asked Greg if gay gargoyles might mate (assuming an unmated female was present) with a female once every twenty years for the purpose of procreation. Greg responded that he doubted that would happen, since if the population is that low, one extra egg probably wouldn't make much difference.

* You're forgetting one of the basic tenants of evolution. Every present-day trait is an adaptation for a past need. Turning to stone every morning is also inconvenient but they still do it because they needed some way to sleep safely. I imagine that homosexuality works the same way.

*** Easy answer to the "Irish skin" part. The British Isles frequently experience cloud cover that blocks out the sun. The northern latitudes also mean that the winter days are short and people are going to be fully clothed pretty much all year round. That means the only people who won't get rickets (a bone disease which is a very powerful selective force since it can both cause a fetus to not properly develop and may also result in a girl's hips being deformed enough during puberty to make childbirth impossible) are the ones with very little melanin in their skin. Those same people are not as well adapted to sunny climates and burn easily as a result.

* Sorry I mis-uh typed. When I said "traits" I was talking about things like eyelids and sleep patterns. Eyeballs need protection so over time eyelids came into being.

** This troper read once in a site that the turning-into-stone-at-night thing wasn't even a natural characteristic of the gargoyles but a result of a massive spell placed on them sometime around 1 AD (this is a magically-ridden universe, after all). Of course, it might not be a official explanation and just well intentioned [[Wild Mass Guessing]].

*** Turning to stone was always a biological characteristic of gargoyles. The spell mentioned was a "modesty" spell the Romans put on the gargoyles to make sure their clothing and personal items also turned to stone with them, because they were apparently tired of the gargoyles going around naked all the time.

== Xanatos moving Castle Wyvern ==

* Castle Wyvern dates back to at least the 10th century, and was the site of two battles during a Viking invasion of Scotland. That makes it an important historical site. Even if the British government was willing to sell the land and ruins to an American businessman, why would they allow him to take the castle out of the country?

== What EXACTLY is Bronx ==

* He's not a gargoyle. Gargoyles are inteligent and bipedal. He's shown roughly human level inteligence, at least the ability to do follow commands more complicated than you could give a dog not named Lassie. If he IS a gargoyle dog are their cat and bear equivalents? Goliath buys into Raven's lie of Gargoyles with extremely odd physical appearances rather easily and the London clan. . .frankly it's a bit difficult to buy them all as the same species unless just like they were turned to stone for a thousand years that at some point in the distant past they WERE stone and some spell (perhaps a bored Puck) made them into what they are today. Otherwise Bronx makes no sense nor does the English group.

 

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[[Category:Gargoyles]]

[[Category:Headscratchers]]

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