I Know You Know I Know: Difference between revisions

 

 

'''Captain Amazing:''' ''(clears throat)'' ... Of course.|''[[Mystery Men]]''}}

 

* ''[[Cerebus]]'' does this several times, usually involving Lord Julius, a Clown Prince of [[Magnificent Bastard|MagnificentBastardy]]. Astoria also does this to Cerebus {{spoiler|even while chained to his dungeon wall}}.

* ''[[Peanuts]]'' has used this joke quite a few times, when Charlie Brown is on the pitcher's mount, trying to figure out whether the hitter is expecting his fast ball. There was another incident involving Lucy's football-pulling stunt:

'''Lucy:''' I figured you knew that I knew you knew I knew that you knew I knew you knew, so I had to jerk it away! }}

* When [[Black Widow (comics)|Black Widow]] stops the hijacking of a NASA space shuttle she and the agent in charge of the hijacking keep one-upping the other after they reveal a part of their scheme to the other, each explaining how it "changes the game." First, Black Widow reveals that she is working with the CIA and has been impersonating the man's partner. The man, commenting that that changes the game, explains that he has just detonated the explosive in his partners head, probably killing a few of his interrogators. Widow, saying that that changes the game, explains that she is still going to take this man in for questioning, though now she will make sure to hurt him while doing so. The hijacker, [[Overly Long Gag|after commenting that that changes the game]], explains that he is now crashing the shuttle to stop her. After that the game stops changing and Widow just beats the tar out of the man, but you have to wonder what game they started with and what they were playing when they finished.

* In a recent chapter of [[Dragon Age: The Crown of Thorns]], Theron Mahariel, the Dalish Elf Warden, contemplates how he's been passively spying / been allowed to eavesdrop on some secret talks between the [[Guile Hero]] dwarven noble protagonist and Alim Surana, [[One-Man Army]] mage. The extent of the I know he knows I don't, etc., has to be seen to be believed. And it's only ''slightly'' played for laughs.

 

 

 

== Films -- Animation ==

* The Swedish movie ''The Shark Who Knew Too Much'' opens with the main lead chased by a helicopter while shouting this sort of dialogue. Given that he's spent his whole life masquerading as a group of identical triplets who can't stand each other's presence just to trick his father into giving him shareholder majority of the company, it's obvious there's a lot of deception involved.

* In ''[[Sneakers]]'', Martin is interrupted while breaking into an office. In the course of inventing a plausible explanation for why he's there, he finds himself inadvertently entangled in one of these:

** {{spoiler|and give him he-- he...lp.}}

*** {{spoiler|Give him head?! -- Be a beacon?!}}

** Specifically because the Vietnamese were using more or less standard tactics, and Moore, using a never-before-testing air cavalry method, was forced to make up tactics as he went along.

* The Bride says this at the end of ''[[Kill Bill]]'':

* ''Hot Lead and Cold Feet'' has Don Knotts' Sheriff deliver this line regarding his arch-nemesis, Rattlesnake: "'Cause he's here and I know he's here. And ''he'' knows I know he's here! But he doesn't know ''I'' know he knows I know he's here, but I know. So I got the edge!"

* In ''Dodgeball'':

* From the description above, the classic quasi-comedy ''[[The Court Jester]]''. Everyone knows the pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon, but the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

* A variation in the movie ''[[Why Me]]?''

'''Gus Cardinale:''' ... Me too. ''(cue [[Aside Glance]])'' }}

* From the ''[[Harry Potter]]'' [[Alternate DVD Commentary]] [[Gag Dub]] ''Wizard People, Dear Readers'': "Then, dear readers, Harry notices a tear in Snake's pants and blood all over her leg, and Snake notices that Harry has noticed, and he notices she noticed that! I mean, there is a trade of noticing going on that is just bewildering."

* Played with hilariously by Professor Hilbert in ''[[Stranger Than Fiction]]'', when Harold mentions his narrator said "Little did he know":

* In the film (and play) ''Romanoff and Juliet'', The General (Peter Ustinov) goes back and forth between the U.S. and Soviet ambassadors, discovering the layers of intrigue: The Soviets have broken the American code. The Americans know this, and are feeding the Soviets misinformation. The Soviets are aware that it is misinformation and are pretending to be fooled by it. {{spoiler|When the U.S. ambassador hears that, he is flabbergasted.}}

* From ''[[Little Big Man]]'' comes the great quote "You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!"

* ''[[Down With Love]]'', several times, one of them also counting as a [[Hurricane of Puns]], as the discussion concerns two magazines called "Know Magazine" and "Now magazine"

'''Barbara Novak:''' {{spoiler|But you didn't know I'd say yes!}} }}

** And Barbara's entire speech at the end where she reveals {{spoiler|that she knew everything that happened in the movie would happen and planned the entire plot accordingly.}}

* ''[[Coming to America]]'' has this happen as Prince Akeem meets his [[Extreme Doormat|bride-to-be]]:

* Seen in ''[[The Three Musketeers (2011 film)|The Three Musketeers 2011]]''. The musketeers have to break into the Tower of London. Milady, who's worked with them in the past, knows their methods, and can give Buckingham the information. They know she knows their methods and will tell Buckingham. She knows they know she knows and will tell Buckingham. {{spoiler|The English capture D'Artagnan, who she knew they'd use to infiltrate while the others acted as decoys, assuming she wouldn't take him into account. Turns out, they knew she'd do that, he's the decoy, and they do something completely different.}}

 

** The climax of the third book brings this to an epic level. Thrawn knows that the New Republic wants to capture an important bit of technology, of which only three are known to exist, all on Imperial worlds. The New Republic knows that Thrawn knows this. They also know that one system is heavily protected while another is only lightly defended. Thrawn knows that they know this. The New Republic knows that Imperial Intelligence is very good and will pick up disinformation that shows an attack on the lightly protected system is in the works. Meanwhile they actually plan to attack the heavily-fortified one. Thrawn knows that the New Republic knows that his intelligence is that good, and that the "secret plans" are a deception, so he disregards those attack plans and prepares for the ''real'' attack.

** In the [[Hand of Thrawn]] Duology, set a decade later, a trio of Imperials conspire very successfully to make it look like Thrawn is [[Back From the Dead]]. When Han Solo finally sees the (fake) Grand Admiral and has his suspicions deftly countered, it's a shock. Thrawn was, after all, alarmingly good at anticipating what people would do.

'''Lando:''' Thrawn or no Thrawn, the Empire ''is'' still [[Vestigial Empire|down to eight sectors]]. Maybe this is really all he's going for, hoping to confuse Coruscant so badly it just freezes up.<br />

'''Han:''' Who knows? That's what drives you so crazy about him. You try to do something and odds are it's exactly what he wanted you to do. You stand still and don't do anything, and he runs a smartrope around you. }}

* In [[Neal Stephenson]]'s ''[[Cryptonomicon]]'', Detachment 2702 exists to generate enough random noise to cover up the fact that the Allies have broken German and Japanese ciphers. It stands to reason that if the Axis finds out, they'll switch to a new cipher, so being able to act on the information they got without revealing they have this information becomes very important.

* Discussed in the ''[[Belgariad]]''. The Drasnian ambassador to Nyssa is bribing the staff of the Tolnedran embassy for information as part of his intelligence network. The Tolnedran ambassador knows this, and occasionally feeds his staff fake information as a result. The Drasnian ambassador knows this.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, but I don't think that he's aware that I know that he knows that I know. }}

* The BBC ''[[Doctor Who]]'' book ''The Doctor Trap'' has an ''entire plot'' based off this. The villain is convince the Doctor knows something the villain doesn't. Not really. The titular trap, the Doctor explains is {{spoiler|what ''they think'' you know that they don't.}} Confused? Yeah, [[Gambit Pileup|join everyone else in the book.]]

** A Fourth Doctor book has the Doctor going on and on like this, until Sarah Jane Smith tells him to shut up.

'''Doctor:''' Of course I know. And they know that I know. And I know that they know, and they know that I know that they know [etc., etc.] }}

* Subverted by [[Ephraim Kishon]] in a story with a bagel salesman. The narrator thinks he wants to fool him into buying lower quality bagels, and goes through lengths with this trope, only to find out at the end that all the bagels always were fresh, and he suspected an innocent guy lying.

** Also in the regular series episode "Let's Kill Hitler", between the Doctor and River. {{spoiler|Though it doesn't matter, because she's already poisoned him.}}

* Happens quite a few times in ''[[Yes Minister]]''. Especially funny due to Sir Humphrey's penchant for [[Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness]].

* Used in the ''[[Stargate SG-1]]'' episode "Ripple Effect",

** Used dramatically in ''[[Stargate Universe]]'' with Chloe revealing that she ''knows'' about the thing that he ''knows, it's just that''... the 'thing'.. is Eli being in love with her whilst she's in love and in a relationship with one of Eli's best friends.

** How exactly did this guy get into Army Special Forces again?

** Also from ''[[The A-Team]]'':

'''Hannibal:''' Decker will understand it. }}

* In an episode of ''[[The Invisible Man (TV series)|The Invisible Man]]'' (2000), Darien gets implanted a spy nanobot by a [[Femme Fatale|former girlfriend]] working for the evil agency Crysalis (the details of how the nanobot was implanted are a bit embarrassing to him). The Agency finds out, so they Know that Crysalis know. So they plan to use him as a decoy, but later the secret is ruined, so Crysalis knows that the agency knows that Crysalis knows. And obviously, the Agency knows.

* Used mostly seriously on ''[[Studio 60 On the Sunset Strip]].'' Matt's assistant has told Danny about Matt's pill-popping. After Danny confronts Matt, she quietly walks into the room.

'''Matt:''' I know you know I know. }}

* Shows up in ''[[Fringe]]'' with Milo Stanfield, a savant who can predict the future enough to cause accidents to kill people [[Rube Goldberg Hates Your Guts|set off by dropping a pen]]. It's impossible for Fringe Division to outthink him, because if they try, he'll predict it, and if they predict he'll predict it and choose a different option, he'll predict that too. Astrid describes the situation with at least six recursions of "he'll predict that we predict".

* Invoked in ''[[Sherlock]]'s'' "A Study in Pink". The assassin tempts Sherlock into a battle of wits involving two identical pills: one poisoned, the other harmless. He tries to lure Sherlock in with this form of logic, but Sherlock refuses the terms of the argument, knowing that no matter what choice he makes, the odds of success are still 50/50. He [[Take a Third Option|takes a third option]] and is ready to walk away from the whole thing, but gets lured back to the table because he ''has to know'' if he can win. And the twist of it is, [[Evasive Fight Thread Episode|the show never says]] if he made the right choice.

* Played with on ''[[Boy Meets World]]''. Cory thinks that Mr. Feeny knows that Topanga proposed to him, even though Mr. Feeny doesn't actually know:

'''Cory:''' NOTHING!! THIS GETS OUT, I'LL HUNT YOU DOWN LIKE A DOG!! }}

* Myka and H.G. have a good one in ''[[Warehouse 13]]'' quickly becoming complex making Myka's partner tell them to stop a small part below

'''Myka''': I knew that you’d think that. }}

 

== Music ==

* The [[Kelly Clarkson]] song "Walk Away" has the lyrics:

Let's get this show on the road today'' }}

* [[Bob Dylan]]'s song "Tell Me, Momma".

* Hank Green's "I Know (A Song in Ten Words)", heard [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lRldr2BH2M here].

I don't think that you know i think that I know that you don't'' }}

* Tex Perkins' [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQSWW5wimm0 I Know Y'Know I Know].

* Done almost verbatim in the Kursaal Flyers song "Little Does She Know", which was a British top 20 hit in 1976. The chorus is:

That I know she's cheatin' on me'' }}

* '60s psychedelic-pop group the Love Generation had a minor hit with the Jimmy Webb-penned "Montage", which wraps up thusly:

I knew that you knew that I knew'' }}

* [[The Rutles]]: "I know you know what you know, but you should know by now that you're not me..."

* "Throwing It All Away" by [[Genesis (band)|Genesis]] starts with the lines:

[[Mood Whiplash|Something we don't share]]<br />

I don't want to be sitting here<br />

That I don't wanna go'' }}

 

[[Tear Jerker|But I can't see the future]]<br />

'Cause [[Department of Redundancy Department|you know I know, baby]]<br />

== Video Games ==

* When dealing with conspiratorial spy-types, it's always important to keep track of who knows what, and how they know it. ''[[City of Heroes]]'' plays with this by having the character knowingly sent into a trap, just to cause confusion among the enemy.

** ''City of Heroes'' loves this, especially with scanner/newspaper missions. Villains (or heroes) will call out your character for a fight, set an ambush, and attempt to take you down. The fact that you know it's an ambush in no way deters you from walking right into it, but, in spite of insurmountable odds, you always eventually walk out too.

* The ''[[Dinosaur King]]'' DS game descends into this sometimes with the hints that opponents give about their next move.

* From the final mission of the Whiteboard War game ''[[Chop Raider]]'': "We're not going to force you to do it, but we know you won't decline."

* The "[[Electronic Telepathy|ESP Center]]" wonder from ''[[Civilization]]: Call to Power''.

'''Subject 2''': i know that you know that I know that you know what I'm thinking! }}

* The new indie game ''[[Achron]]'' is built upon this trope and time-travel. Every minute or so, a time "wave" occurs so any changes you made to that last big fight will be etched into the game and your opponent will have a chance to fix it or leave it. Or maybe you just pretended to change it, and he sends troops back to fight what he thought you sent back. But then, you did send stuff back, but maybe not to there, so he doesn't know that you know that he knows you sent troops back. Or does he?

* Fighting gamer and game designer David Sirlin calls it "Yomi Layers" with "I know you know I know" being the third layer. He explains it in-depth in [http://www.sirlin.net/articles/yomi-layer-3-knowing-the-mind-of-the-opponent.html this article.]

* [[Psychonauts|Boyd]] pulls a variation of this midway through The [[Milkman Conspiracy]], much to Raz's confusion:

'''Boyd''': Of ''course'' you're going to the book depository! }}

* [[Frozen Synapse]] requires players to think like this constantly.

** Often happens to Red Mage. [http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/02/21/episode-958-3pt-hallucination-flaw/ This panel] shows a prime example.

** [http://www.nuklearpower.com/2003/04/12/episode-272-mind-games/ This panel] is another great example.

'''Black Mage:''' I want to cry, but there aren't enough tears. }}

** Red Mage parodies this trope in [http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/02/01/episode-950-stop-drop-and-roll-is-for-morons/ this comic] to reach the conclusion that [[Blatant Lies|he actually knows]] how to cast Life 3, [[Insane Troll Logic|despite stating in the same sentence]] the fact that he knows that he can't. Red Mage used [[Right for the Wrong Reasons]], except he should be wrong. But somehow [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe|it works]].

* ''Mr. Square'' Has a prime example, wherein Mr. Square says, verbatim "I know that you know that I know what you know about knowing that I know, but you don't know that my knowledge of you knowing is not secret, I WANT you to know that I know so you don't know what I don't....you know?" [http://revfitz.com/msi243.html in this comic]

* ''[[Casey and Andy]]'' does this [http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=209 at one point] in an almost [[Two Scenes, One Dialogue]] where the two discuss how they'll counteract each other's plans in increasingly complex manners, whether the other knows about the plan or not.

'''Quantum Crook:''' Excellent. He knows where we are, and thinks we don't know he's coming. }}

* ''[[Schlock Mercenary]]'':

** Subverted in that both participants of the conversation are AIs, and have no problem following this.

* Employed in ''Evil, Inc'' by Evil Atom on [http://www.evil-comic.com/archive/20080612.html 2008-June-12].

* The entire point of [http://nedroid.com/2011/04/nice-try-though/ this] ''[[Nedroid]]'' strip.

* [[Trope Overdosed|It was bound to happen]], sooner or later, in ''[[The Order of the Stick]]''. Vaarsuvius does it [http://www.GiantITP.com/comics/oots0789.html in strip #789]:

'''Elan:''' Which means... that I'm totally confused. }}

* ''[[Homestuck]]'': The duel between Terezi and Vriska in Act 5. Terezi proposes that they flip a coin to decide whether Vriska stays or goes. Both parties realize that Terezi is employing [[Double-Speak]], so "go" really means "die". Both parties know that Vriska [[Winds of Destiny Change|can alter probability]] and make the coin fall on whichever side she wants. Terezi expects Vriska to call her bluff, by making the coin land on "go" and then turning to leave. Vriska does precisely that, expecting that Terezi won't have the stomach to stab her in the back. This is even lampshaded by [[Mysterious Watcher|Doc Scratch]], who narrates their fight.

Each was gambling, not with any vehicle of probability, which had been eliminated from the equation, but with each other's intentions. }}

 

* ''[[Kim Possible]]'': Kim and Ron notice that Shego left a far too obvious clue that she had stolen the [[McGuffin]], so clearly she and Drakken were setting up a trap. Unless they wanted them to think it was a trap and avoid it, in which case the way to confound them was to go ahead into it, except it was a "trap-trap": Drakken knew that they knew that Drakken knew that they knew that it was a trap.

* Played straight (as straight as anything on that show, anyway) on ''Cartoon Planet'' during the following conversation about network executives:

'''Brak:''' I just, I don't even have the slightest idea what you're talking about. }}

* Played awesomely on an episode of ''[[Chowder]]'' where the title character is trying to stop his [[Jekyll and Hyde|Hyde-like]] Sleep-Eating form from finding the stash of food he hid, thinking about ''three steps ahead'' of himself, sadly to no avail.

* In ''[[The Penguins of Madagascar]]'', things get out of hand when Skipper tries to get back real fish instead of the tasteless fish cakes the penguins have been forced to eat. Julien tried to sabotage the operation.

'''Skipper:''' Ah, but what you didn?t see coming is that [pulls off costume] [[Mind Screw|I am actually you!]]<br />

'''Julien:''' Okay, nicely played. But if you are me, then by processing of elimination, [also pulls off costume] I must be you!<br />

* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teB_OOvmZDE&feature=related This] ''[[Hey Arnold]]!'' clip.

* In the ''[[Code Lyoko]]'' episode "Contact", Odd and Yumi have an instance of this.

* Used in the ''[[Young Justice (animation)|Young Justice]]'' show. The team is using a former Justice League hideout that was compromised. As explained by Robin; "They know we know they know."

* ''[[The Flintstones]]'' has one of these. It's something to the effect of "Even though he knows she knows he knows he knows she knows he *doesn't* know..."

* There is an active research field known as adversarial reasoning: essentially, building models that allow you to predict the actions of an adversary. Once the adversary happens to get a hold of your model it becomes rather useless, as he can make sure he does something other than what is predicted. So you simply create a new model - one that ''takes into account the fact that your adversary has the old model that he thinks tells him what you think he is going to do!'' The eventual end state is [[Gambit Pileup|left as an exercise for the reader.]]

* One classic example from the [[Second World War]]: an agent was sent to Great Britain by the Germans, who intended that the British intelligence service capture him and use him as a double agent, at which point he could tell the Germans how British counterintelligence functioned. He proceeded to explain this plan to the Brits, who then had him send back two different sets of reports to Germany. One contained what the Brits wanted the Germans to know; the other contained what the Brits wanted the Germans to think the Brits wanted them to know.

* Studies of animal intelligence sometimes use this trope as an analogy to model a species' cleverness in social interaction. Humans are the only species known to be able to do five levels of I/you know/think, while great apes seem able to manage four (e.g. they can bluff and ''be subtle about it'' so the other ape won't catch wise). Or the apes are [[Alternate Character Interpretation|far better at it]] than humans.

* The [http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2008/02/05/the-blue-eyed-islanders-puzzle/ Blue-Eyed Islanders puzzle] relies on this to an insane level, in that it ultimately depends on {{spoiler|a 100-story tall tower of hypotheticals. Let's say that K(0) is the knowledge that there exists someone on the island with blue eyes; and K(N+1) is the knowledge that everyone knows that K(N). So if I know K(1) it means I know everyone knows there's someone with blue eyes on the island; if I know K(2) it means I know everyone knows everyone knows there's someone with blue eyes on the island; and so on. The crux of the riddle rests on how, from being given ''K(100)'', everyone on the island deduces they have blue eyes by a mind-numbing 100-day process of collapsing hypotheticals}}.

** How about agreeing on a series of colored flares: the first general sends up a flare (say, red) meaning that he's ready to attack, and the second responds with the same color to indicate that he will attack as well. Stealth is an issue, but...

* Courtesy of Tarol Hunt of [[Goblins]] fame, we have the following two tweets:

[http://twitter.com/#!/Thunt_Goblins/status/75270974395785217 THunt_Goblins]: And I just told Danielle that I tweeted THAT. }}