Lyrical Nanoha/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions
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** Yes, she does. Also, that would make an awesome series.
** Given that in the course of a night, Nanoha saw telepathy, monsters spawned from lost technology, and magical devices that granted armor and weapons, she probably doesn't think a talking animal is entirely beyond belief.
** Nanoha's obviously at least a little bit [[Genre Savvy]], she recognizes that Yuuno is a talking animal sidekick and accepts him at face value as such, she just doesn't know the twist yet.
* Here's one for A's: If the knights could so easily disobey Hayate's orders not to go fight anymore (and therefore prove that they have free will), then why couldn't they just do the same with their worse masters? Were they that dense? Did they really not give a f*ck? And, as mentioned in Chapter 19.5 of ''[[
** Well, first off, you can't say that their behavior in A's is a plot hole because of something that happened in ViVid. That would mean ViVid has the plot hole, not A's. Second, while other masters might have been kind to them, it simply may not have occurred to them to go against a master's orders before, if the masters never gave them an order that they saw as being contradictory to the master they liked's well-being, as Hayate's order not to fight was seen as being detrimental to Hayate's well-being. Also, other masters, the cruel ones, may have been using the book to exert a greater level of control over the Wolkenritter that Hayate never would, effectively not giving them a choice in the matter.
* This troper has seen a lot of people associate Fate with Zengar Zonvolt the way Signum is associated with Lamia Loveless... but why is it that Wodan Ymir never seems to get mentioned? Take one look at Bardiche's Jet Zamber attack then look me in the monitor and tell me that that's not [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz4WSuKa81Y Blade of the Cosmos].
** Then Zanger would be Alicia Testarossa, only she never had chance to grow big and cool? Wow...
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*** Actually, at least in the US Navy, you are always allowed to address your superior by their rank (e.g. Lieutenant/"El Tee," Commander, etc.) or by "sir" (for males) or "ma'am" (for females). You never use "sir" for a female (or "ma'am" for a male).
*** There are militaries that refuse to recognize a formal distinction between officers of different sexes and simply address them all as "sir".
** Strangely enough, regarding the gender of titles, while Hayate tends to be referred to as "Mistress" by Signum, Zafira and Reinforce in the fansubs for A's, she gets referred to as "Master" in the fansubs for ''[[
*** That just depends on who's translating it. The Wolkenritter call Hayate "aruji", which I believe is gender neutral.
** The series seems to use male titles for females without batting an eye. As I recall it makes reference to female Kings as well.
* I'm on episode 7 of StrikerS, and I'm confused as to how the Anti-Magic Fields of the Gadgets work. Apparently they don't cancel out buff spells, so Erio could cut through that big one on the train and Signum could slice through them, but they cancel out ranged attacks...except that previously, when Tea had to do an incredibly complex technique to get her projectiles in, apparently just spamming more power is enough at the hotel? I'm confused.
** It does both actually. Elio clearly stated that it DID remove his boosts and he can't kill it with the strength of a 10 y.o. What Teana did in training and Caro on the train is an additional protection layer on top of basic spell function, which AMF removes first and gives core spell time to work. Plus in both cases there was additional boost of strength - so the spell was pumped quicker than AMF dismantled it.
** What needs to be understood is that Anti-Magic fields in this series seems to work more like the "Drain" status effect in ''[[Final Fantasy]]'' rather than a "forced deactivation" like you'd find in ''[[Dungeons
*** Actually, the AMFs in ''[[Dungeons
** It was somewhat explained later in the third season that AMF works to suppress magic rather than preventing its use altogether. Rein remarks on this when the protagonists are inside a particularly powerful AMF which actually does cancel out all magic use.
{{quote|
*** Anti Magilink Fields [note they are not called Anti Magic Fields] work by breaking down the mana links used to create spells, thus that particular AMF would be one that breaks the links faster then they can be created. Anything that doesn't rely on mana linkage (e.g. Knuckle Duster) would be unaffected .
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** A similar question exists; how do the TSAB mages get Earth money? Lindy set up an apartment on Earth, and most likely made several purchases there, including a cell phone for Fate, and Graham financially supported Hayate for some time (it's unlikely that he could do so with his savings from his time on Earth).
*** They probably pawn mundane goods they already have to get money.
*** Most money on Earth doesn't literally exist. The TSAB agents in question may have hacked themselves accounts, under the rationalization that the relatively small amount of "unaccounted for" currency they needed to maintain what's effectively a one-family home wasn't likely to crash Earth's economy. (Especially since we were busy doing that ourselves.)
* This troper is bothered by one thing: Why does everyone, even those not from Earth, speak Japanese and follow Japanese customs? Gil is from England, but he speaks Japanese. Fate isn't from Earth, and she speaks Japanese. Lindy has a traditional Japanese room and she speaks Japanese, though her nationality is unknown so that's pending. I just wonder why everyone in an interdimensional organization speaks Japanese and follows Japanese customs when a lot of them probably aren't even from Earth. Okay, the speaking may be excused in several parts, but I still don't know why an Englishman knows and speaks Japanese. Yes I know the show's made in Japan, but it's still weird.
** Graham mentions that meeting the Japanese Nanoha brings back memories of Japan's landscape, so he's probably been there before, which would require knowing the language.
** It's not ''that'' weird. The creators can only write from their own cultural and lingual perspective(s), not to mention the absurdity of assuming by extension that the alien characters would speak a recognisable language ''at all''. You might as well take issue with the hubris displayed by [[Star Trek|The Federation]] in adopting English as the lingua franca; more people speak Mandarin than they do English. Why does everybody in ''[[The Forbidden Kingdom]]'' speak English? Why does everybody in ''[[
** If they really aren't speaking Japanese, why do the Devices speak in English/German? And are they really speaking that, or just interpreted as an alternate language? And do their masters know that language as well as they do?
*** Those are very good questions; I have absolutely no idea. I really don't think you're really meant to subject it to that degree of scrutiny.
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** Judging from their dialogue under the tree, I think the ''point'' was that it wasn't internally consistent (note that Alicia also ''acts'' younger). It [[Bellisario's Maxim|didn't have to matter]], but Fate chose to [[Pull the Thread]]. (I do wonder what would've been said if Fate had mentioned Nanoha.)
** It's possible that Fate was created at the age when Alicia died (since Zest's clone looks the same as he does around 8 years since his death), and aged somewhat since then, whereas Alicia came into Fate's dream without having aged. There are also some inconsistent aspects, like Linith and Arf existing at the same time as Alicia, but part of this is what Fate would subconsciously consider ideal (not only is Precia kind, but she also gets along with Arf).
** Simplest answer: That's how Fate thinks of Alicia as looking (as she was that age when Fate last saw her in the tube), so that's how she looks in the dream drawn from her thoughts. (The official alternate reality series still has Alicia as the older sister but shorter and less developed just because that's her body type.)
* What happened to [[Triangle Heart 3
▲* What happened to [[Triangle Heart 3 Sweet Songs Forever|Fiasse]]? Does she even exist? For that matter, why is Shirou alive, and why were Suzuka and Farin added? Removing them wouldn't have meant anything to the plot.
** Fiasse wasn't really relevant to the plot in Nanoha at all (her family didn't have all that much screentime anyway), and having Shirou dead just because he was in the source-material would just be unnecessary since it's not canon or anything. They just took some of the characters and made an entirely different series.
** I'm also curious as to ''what'' Suzuka and Farin are, since their sisters were a vampire and a robot originally. We do know that there's....something special about Suzuka, since she appeared in a Barrier. (and supposedly, non-magic beings can't do that.) Guess it's a loose thread the writers didn't pursue.
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*** My guess is that should Scaglietti die, that would "trigger" the Numbers to gestate a new Scaglietti clone and inherit all his memories up to the time of death (probably like how Fate inherited Alicia's memories up until the time of Alicia's death.) Thus Scaglietti alive = no clones made. As for how, I'll just say it's triggered magic and leave it at that.
*** You probably shouldn't think about how that works with [[The One Guy|Otto]]
**** Your [[Dropped a Bridget On Him|trap detector]] [[
**** More [[Viewer Gender Confusion]] than [[Dropped a Bridget On Him]]. I thought Otto was a guy too, considering the name, the fact she wears loose-fitting pants (while all the obviously-female Numbers sport [[Fan Service|form-fitting jumpsuits]]) and the voice. Until one of the other Numbers uses feminine pronouns when speaking about her.
**** In fact, the manga reveals that even his/her fellows Numbers do not know Otto's gender.
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* In the eighth episode of the first season, Nanoha says that she tells her mom all that's happened, but doesn't mention the magical stuff, or Yuuno's other form. Then, based on what she tells her mom, she's allowed to go off on her own. But, if she didn't mention the magic, then what the heck did she tell her?
** My guess is that she's joined a secret organization and needs to hunt down objects for the safety of the world, and that there's a girl in the opposition that she wants to befriend. Believe me, the [[Triangle Heart 3
** This part really, really, really bugged the hell out of me. I had always thought a [[The Reveal|complete explanation]] (such as the one she actually gives at the end of A's) would have made much more sense. But again, as the troper above noted, other members of the Takamachi family have done equally strange things.
** In Sound Stage 3, Arisa and Suzuka seem aware that Nanoha and Fate had fought, but Fate, at Nanoha's request, doesn't mention magic or information related to the TSAB on the disks that she has Nanoha show the two of them. It's likely she told her parents that much, but it's unclear how she got permission to leave, although in Episode 10, Lindy talks with Nanoha's mother and tells her several apparently untrue things about their time together.
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** Candy.
*** She actually DOES have candy in her pockets. She gave some to Fate in one of the Sound Stages. Go figure.
** [[Dungeons
** Possibly dragon food for Fried in addition to the candy listed above.
* In the first season, there were some hints that Nanoha's dad suffered some really bad injuries before. What exactly was that?
** A [[Continuity Nod]] to ''[[Triangle Heart 3
* How the HELL did everyone on Midchilda miss the Saint's Cradle landing or crashing into their planet, back when it did? Midchild society predates Velkan society, considering Velka magic is an offshoot of Midchild style magic. So... what's up with that?
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** It's not a problem of too much power so much as that Hayate's just a really bad shot.
*** She even remarks upon this, telling the Long Arch staff that she's "a total klutz" at long-range attacks without Rein available for targeting. Considering the allegory of Hayate's magic to an actual air strike, this makes sense that someone would need to act as her "spotter."
** Also most of multi-projectile attacks such as Accel/Axel Shooter are not homing/seeking. They are mentally guided/aimed and if we believe what Vita says in A's it seems that the attack is hard to control and need a lot of skills/training.(Nanoha did manage to control the attack anyway)Another proof is in ''[[
* How in God's name does the ''[[
** She didn't lost ties to Earth. See soundstages. Manga and soundstages are important part of nanohaverse canon.
** Also she was not in ground forces before ''[[
*** Even Hayate wasn't always in the Ground Forces; around the time of the [[Distant Finale]] of A's, she was in the Navy (she's wearing a blue uniform during the airport fire), but apparently transferred to ground forces around the time she served under Genya in the 108th Battlion (she's wearing a brown uniform around the start of Strikers), then transferred back to the Navy after Strikers (blue uniform again). The cast seems to go where they're needed.
** Magical dimensional transfer in the Nanoha-verse takes tens of minutes tops and requires no special vehicles or equipment. Nanoha can pop home whenever she likes.
** The third season does some crazy confusion with what's actually the Administration Bureau and what's actually Midchilda's military. If you listen to a lot of what Gaiz says, the Administration Bureau is not the same entity as the army, and that Hayate and the rest of the cast transferred to the army from the "main branch." Gaiz's rants against how the Administration and the Navy takes all the best mages, gets all the best equipment and such is a pretty good explanation for why the Army is the way it is.
** It's clear in ''[[
** [https://web.archive.org/web/20090331192144/http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl_Lyrical_Nanoha_StrikerS/2/12/ The Wolkenritter discuss this in the StrikerS manga]; Vita initially thinks she'll have to say goodbye to all the senior citizens she plays croquet with, but Signum says that she can still visit. In [http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1592232&postcount=1210 one of the Sound Stages], Hayate, the Stars and Lightning Squads and Shamal are seen bathing with Alisa and Suzuka.
* As the above entry notes, the vast amount of retcons in ''[[
** Limiters are not for that. They are exists to prevent "headhunting" for strongest mages and rivalries because of that.
** They're also politically motivated, the maximum power limit on any one unit prevents it from gaining too much power and influence, and limits the damage it can do if it goes rogue. Additionally, much of Midchilda is destroyed anyway, thanks to Precia Testerossa, so there's less to blow up anyway.
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** He created and raised them from birth. And can manipulate their creation to the point where every Number {{spoiler|has a replacement Scaglietti in their womb}}. Why wouldn't they be loyal? (If that fails to satisfy you, then he ''is'' [[A Wizard Did It|a powerful mage...]])
** Exactly. His various character flaws aside, Scaglietti seems to genuinely care for the Numbers: he's never shown mistreating them or belittling them. They serve him because he's a father figure to them (or even literally their father for the ones who inherited his DNA). As for Lutecia, she helps him out because he holds the key to reviving her mother, and Zest just tags along to protect her; he doesn't like Scaglietti very much, and generally pursues his own objectives.
** The first four Numbers had many of Scaglietti's genes, with Uno being an [[Opposite
* On the above note, why are the cyborgs, who for all intents and purposes utilizing free will, instantly forgiven and pardoned for their crimes. This goes for the other Nanoha series as well. It seems like very few criminals are actually punished in Nanoha, which seems quite strange considering the leadership and atmosphere as presented in ''[[
** You're clearly not familiar with the Nanoha way of doing things. Criminals aren't punished, they're "[[Fate Worse Than Death|befriended]]".
** In they sentence there was stated something like "lack of proper socialization" (that "free will" you talk about and which they really lack of - they were indoctrinated from birth AND programmed) + cooperation. The ones who do not cooperate were sentenced in prison. And they are not pardoned, they are on probation for different amount of time (in case of 5th for very long time). And it was not "instantly" in any way. Like with Fate all that was at least 1/2 year judicial trial.
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** Also, it should be noted that the numbers are essentially children being coerced into crime by their father. Although they have free will, they don't know any better. In that situation, it is normal just the adult having the full punishment. Deici is the best exemple, she obviously knew there were something wrong with their actions, but couldn't argue with Quattro's "I and the Doctor are older, we know better" argument. She just trusted her father and her older sister that what they were doing were the best thing to do.
* In episode 8 of ''[[
** Because Tea's reaction to being chewed out for doing hotheaded stupid things of her own design that ended up with a friendly fire incident was to do even more hotheaded stupid things which had absolutely nothing to do with what Nanoha was training her to do. If she'd done something that stupid in a live combat situation with one of the Numbers, she would have been killed, not just knocked out. If you're in training, especially military training on which your life may one day depend, it's expected that you ''listen'' to the trainer, there's a chance they're telling you things for your own good.
** Yeah, what the previous troper said. What Tea did was not admirable, it was stupid. Personally, if Tea had come to the session with a tactic with an actual chance of working, I don't think Nanoha would have hit her. But she did a ''completely suicidal'' move just for pride, despite Nanoha's warnings. Nanoha is more disappointed at her than anything, and also frustrated and scared for her, but she seems to believe that, if repeated warnings and suggestions keep going over her head, maybe showing her the consequences might work. Not the best way to deal with it, but still, understandable.
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** I think too much shonen is probably what's done it. The point of a test as part of a training session isn't to "win", but to demonstrate that you've ''learned and understood the things that the trainer is trying to teach you''. Nanoha was teaching Teana to optimise her ability in the skills she was already capable with, because those were the skills she needed to survive and to work effectively in the unit in real combat, and they were on combat readiness so she could have needed those skills at any time.
*** I always thought that a big part of what led up to the whole mess was that Teana didn't actually ''know'' what Nanoha's training was supposed to do, and thus had no way to judge her own progress.
** Having watched this particular episode and being a fan of the TV version of the animation(as opposed to the "fixed" DVD versions, go figure), I always saw this scene as an enormous subversion of Nanoha's Messiah tendencies. She's gone through two seasons being more or less always right about anything she decides on, to the point that a friend of mine noted she seems to have a split personality as dictated by the plot: shy and self-effacing out of combat, and judgment and personal strength on par with a person three times her age on demand. Anyway, the scene's build up is that Tea is training to the point of absurdity to land a single blow on Nanoha, which isn't the point of her training: it's to learn the basics. However, she's missing this because she's an acknowledged prodigy that just doesn't happen to have specialized "unique skills" like all the top mages do. She sees herself as too normal to be in Riot 6, and thus is trying to push herself beyond her limits to prove that she belongs there. Nanoha, meanwhile, seeing Tea be the model student aside from one mistake at the hotel(which Vita, in classic XO fashion, beats into Tea's head for being a mistake), doesn't see the self-destructive cycle Tea's self-confidence problems are causing. Thus, you have the training incident, where Nanoha's confronted with someone that she thought was her best student ignoring every lesson she's been trying to teach, doing exactly what caused her great personal pain and suffering and nearly killed her, and dragging Subaru into the mix as well. Nanoha is human, and she's disappointed and probably hurt by the way Tea's effectively rejecting everything she's been taught, and she...goes a little overboard, which she admits to Fate later. When she sits down with Tea later to unveil Cross Mirage's blade form, she admits that she didn't see Tea's problems for what they were, leading to the misunderstanding that caused the training incident. It's a wonderful example of neither Tea nor Nanoha being completely in the right or the wrong that was appreciated, given Nanoha's near perfect personality everywhere else. ''[[
*** Still, it's a bit out of pattern with her other responses. At the start of Episode 8, she gently tells Teana where she went wrong, (albeit partly because Vita already yelled at her). After the White Devil Incident, she seems willing to listen to Teana despite the fact tha Vita and Signum feel she's spoiling her. After Teana hears about what happened to Nanoha, she tells her that she has potential if her abilities are used correctly.
*** Could someone please link to a comparison of Nanoha's expression in the TV and DVD version or at least describe the part in more detail? I've seen the scene before, and I'm not sure at what part Nanoha has a "[[When They Cry|Higurashi]]-like" expression (having not watched Higurashi or any of the other works), or how it's different in the TV and DVD versions.
*** First there are links to the two videos on the [[Better
** This has been bugging me for a while already. I think Nanoha is 100% in the wrong here. It's fine for a pupil to go all out during a training and also ''to make mistakes''. I still don't see though what mistake Tea made, since she actually put up quite a fight, even though Nanoha was of course never in any kind of danger. Even then, Nanoha could simply have shown her what tactical mistakes she thought she made by showing her a video of the incident, instead of blowing her out of the sky, ''causing her to become unconscious''. Seriously, people, unconsciousness is no light matter and could easily lead to permanent damage, so I am amazed that Nanoha didn't even get reprimanded for this. What's worse, Tea still gets treated with a fair amount of disregard after that, including getting slapped by Fate. Yes, Tea acts like a whiny bitch, but she does have a point when she complains about her unfair treatment. I wouldn't have been surprised if Tea had left the training facilities and tried to get gain more power on her own, only to come back for Nanoha later.
*** Signum's the one who punches her. Shamal notes in Episode 9 that Teana was out for so long because she hadn't been getting nearly enough sleep lately and "all the stress (she's) accumulated lately has caught up with (her)". You can also see her doubling over during her [[Training
** "Never in any kind of danger!?" What part of "One-hit kill" don't you understand? It's not that making mistakes is bad, it's just that the mistakes she made were really bad, if they're mistakes in the first place. You really don't try to jeporadize the lives of many of the people around you just for a training match. Remember, Tea's entire plan'a sucess depended on her hitting Nanoha with what was pretty much a single overpumped shot. If it hit, it would probably cause damage a lot more serious than unconsiousness. Besides, as it was shown, if she had missed or had been stopped like Nanoha had done, the results would have resulted in both of their defeats. Why did she get slapped by Fate? Because she was acting like it was barely her fault, if that at all. Essentially, she was blaming Nanoha for not letting her utilize her plan that would have resulted in serious injury. And how was that unfair treatment? If you're having a friendly practice match with your teacher in a self-defense class, do you try to make it so that in the end that they'll die? I would be pretty pissed off if my student tried to kill me. Even if it wouldn't have killed Nanoha, Tea didn't know that. From what she was thinking, I get the impression that she thought that the shot was perfectly capable of killing Nanoha.
** I have to agree. The point wasn't that Tea was putting Nanoha into risk. She seems to be the kind of self-effacing messiah type that doesn't care for that, not to mention Tea had no chance of actually hurting her anyway. No, the point was, she was putting ''herself'', and Subaru too, into ''actual danger'', for something as stupid as ''pride''. See her quote in the moment "now... I understand you're trying your best... but a mock battle isn't a true fight to the death. If you're going to pretend to listen in practice and then... do something this dangerous and desperate in the real thing... what's the point in us practicing? Is my training... really that wrong and useless...?". And then Tea goes all hysterical (because she knows Nanoha's not ''completely'' in the wrong here), and tries to keep shooting at her, which is met with Nanoha counter-blasting her. Now, Nanoha seriously went overboard with the physical blasting (that second burst in particular probably wasn't really needed for making the point)... but I've known better trained and less emotional drill sergeants who'd have downright told a recruit to pack up and go home before they killed their mates, for stuff like this. Nanoha was just totally dissapointed, and incredibly worried (because, you know, I see about four ways that maneuver could have ended with a dead Tea if she'd tried it on someone who actually wanted to hurt her. Two of them also include dead Subaru for a kicker), and, well, she's a very emotional and, let's face it, pretty aggressive girl, without much of a way with words - this is stated to be one of her flaws. So she decided to show them the consequences of what they did, much like a sergeant might knock down the two cocky recruits and give them some bruises. Her voice pretty much said "I know they're going to hate me for this, but since training didn't work... maybe if they fear me, maybe they'll pay attention".
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** It's also stated that Graham "lives a secluded life", so he doesn't see many people.
* Who won the mock battle at the end of ''[[
** I agree. Nanoha is the best at what she does and what she does is befriending.
** Yeah, I'm going with that. I mean, don't get me wrong, the new kids are talented, but none of them ever quite demonstrated the ability to make friends Nanoha has. Caro came close with the gigantic doom dragon, but I doubt even Voltaire has quite as many <s>victims</s> friends as the main girl herself.
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* Nanoha in general seems pretty unwilling to actually kill people on screen. The generic Bureau clerks that the Wolkenritter dispose of in the beginning of A's are assumed to survive the process, since both Nanoha and Fate have their Linker Cores extracted. This gets even worse in ''[[
** Not to mention that of all the Numbers, Due was the only one who actually was killed outright. Considering Zest's character, this doesn't really surprise me much.
*** Scaglietti claims that he doesn't kill without reason, and even said that people fleeing the Section 6 base without fighting back would not be harmed, so it's possible that he told the Numbers to merely incapacitate the soldiers if they could (although Dieci tries to blow up the helicopter with Shamal and Vice inside, and Wendi notes that she doesn't have to take Teana in alive during the final battle).
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**** It's explicitly stated that no one died in the current Book of Darkness case (although people presumably died in the past ones, especially Clyde Harlaown).
*** It can't be proven that the Numbers killed anyone in their attacks on the Einherjar installations, nor that the mages the Wolkenritter attacked were killed for their linker cores. I just rewatched the Einherjar attack scene a minute ago; none of the mages present are even bleeding, much less sporting serious wounds. "Knocked out and on the ground" does not automatically equate with "dead".
*** The Wolkenritter killed many of those large monsters on various uninhabited planets, which [[Captain Obvious|take much more punishment than a weak little human]]. Magic is clearly capable of killing things much more physically powerful than people. MGLN's avoidance of really killing off anyone (even the [[Redshirt Army]] clerks of the TSAB don't die conclusively) comes across as lame as when jRPG monsters just [[Non-Lethal KO|"knock out"]] the player characters. Considering how much the violence was amped up in ''[[
*** Magic can kill people the reason the reason we never see Midchildan magic kill anyone is because the targets are well protected. First, consider what happened when Vice accidentally shot his sister in the eye. Now what would of happen of she had been hit with Starlight Breaker? She would have died.
**** Also, don't forget that there is a specific type of magic that is nonlethal, which Nanoha is explicitly said to be a master at.
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** First, now you're handing Teana the [[Idiot Ball]] to facilitate her defection on top of completely rewriting her character, and I for one will have nothing to do with a plot like that. Second, this doesn't belong in JBM or in Discussion, it belongs on a proper fanfiction forum like [http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=60648 AnimeSuki's Nanoha Fanfiction thread].
** Done and done!! I'm outta here!
** [[
* Why the bloody blue blazes do the dimensional ships have no weapons other than the [[Wave Motion Gun|Arc-en-Ciel]]? It makes it impossible for them to simply disable a ship, rather than destroying it, and it also means that they don't have any weapon that doesn't have a hideously large charge time. At least the [[Forgotten Superweapon|Saint's Cradle]] had magic laser banks. You'd think that an organization as devoted to peace as the TSAB would have some kind of less-guaranteed-lethal weapons.
** Any source for this? As far as I can recall, the only times when this could have come up was with the Book of Darkness (when anything less than the Arc-en-Ciel wouldn't have been enough), and against the Cradle (when they were worried that the full force of the interdimensional fleet would be insufficient). I had assumed that the ships had other combat capabilities that were simply not mentioned due to the lack of [[Ship
*** Actually if you'll have a good look at Asura in first two series you'll see point-defense cannons. And they'll disappear in ''[[
** Because the TSAB is scared of weapon tech. Because in their history, anything beyond a peashooter has a bad habit of being taken over either by a [[Mad Scientist]] or [[
*** Probably because of things like the Cradle and the Book of Darkness running around?
*** The Arthra's Arc-en-Ciel isn't always armed. They had to take it back to the TSAB HQ to get it activated so they could use it against the Book of Darkness. It can be assumed, then, that those weapons are disabled by default unless it is determined they are necessary. Also note that the one who had the key for it and fired it was an Admiral. The TSAB just takes the use of that weapon very very seriously, which they should.
** In the last episode of ''[[
* Why exactly is Hayate considered a criminal, when she never actually did anything wrong and was in fact instrumental in destroying the Book of Darkness? I suppose she might be held responsible for the actions of the Wolkenritter, since they're sentient programs and she their master, but in that case you wouldn't expect them to be able to hold ranks in the TSAB either. Besides, Gaiz' comment on how "once you commit a crime, it doesn't just go away" still wouldn't make sense.
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** It's a battle scar she got from Zest. Cinque probably asked to keep it as a sign of respect for a [[Worthy Opponent]] or as a mark of pride in her own abilities.
*** Plus she goes totally ga-ga over eye-patches.
** When she's at the Nakajima house in ''[[
** It's possible that her eye ''was'' replaced. With the thermal scanners a lot of mage sensors appear to be, she could just see straight through the closed eye and patch, and open it if she really needs the extra visual acuity. Keeping the eyepatch does two things - #1, keeping a battle scar for pride or respect. And #2, it makes opponents think she has a weak point that she doesn't actually have.
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** Designated type number =/= when cyborg was built. They actually are older then her or at least Cinque is.
*** Oddly enough, some Numbers arrange seniority by birth order, and others do it by numbering; Quattro complains about Cinque acting like the older sister due to being born shortly before her. Otto doesn't refer to Nove, who was born before her and is after her in Numbering, as an older sister but calls Sein "Sein-neesama".
*** For some reason, Sein's official age is listed as 12 in ''[[
* Am I the only one who saw Touma's attack in Force and thought [[
** Probably, unless DD got convertedt into a [[Wave Motion Gun]] at some point in the series (this troper is only about 15 episodes in so far).
** In that case, Bolting Driver would be more accurate then, since it does similar things in [[Gao Gai Gar Final]].
* Is it just me, or does it seem odd that they made the part in which Nanoha, Suzuka, Arisa and their families go swimming, a story with a lot of potential for [[Fan Service]] (especially with the swimsuit stripping Jewel Seed monster), into ''[[Audio Adaptation|a sound stage]]'' with no visuals?
* Does it seem odd that Vivio left a few people whom she owes for her present happiness off her [https://web.archive.org/web/20100630230024/http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl_Lyrical_Nanoha_ViVid/1/07/ mailing] [https://web.archive.org/web/20100618184812/http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl_Lyrical_Nanoha_ViVid/1/08/ list] for her commemorative photo? 1)Yuuno; disregarding the shipping implications of not including him, [http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=37267&page=63 Sound Stage M3 indicates that the two are somewhat close and he's been teaching her search magic]. 2)Shamal and Zafira; Shamal says in Sound Stage M4 that she and Zafira regularly get emails from Vivio with pictures of her and Nanoha, Zafira is Vivio's babysitter of sorts, and Shamal is Nanoha's (and possibly Vivio's) doctor. 3)Teana; in the ''[[
** Yes, odd indeed. With Teana I suppose one could handwave it by saying that she's on a mission out somewhere where they don't have cellphone reception, but still. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
*** Or most easy answer - she DID sent them, but place in manga is limited.
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** ...Sorry. Can I delete the repeated question, or am I supposed to, by TV Tropes law/tradition, keep it there to be mocked/ridiculed/attacked-for-unnecessaryness?
** Don't worry about it. You can delete it if you really want (or strike it), but it's not like you're never going to live it down anyway. We're not that kind of site.
*** [
* It's been what, fourteen years since we last saw her, and Takamachi Miyuki still looks like a teenager in ''[[
** The same as Momoko, Lindy and all other female characters obviously.
** It's not just the females; Shirou looks no older than he did back in A's, (when he's presumably 40 or so, making him well into his fifties in ''ViVid'').
* How exactly has Shamal been able to avoid getting hit with [[Real Women Never Wear Dresses]]? She's a [[Yamato Nadeshiko]] who does much of the housework for the Yagami family, primarily uses her abilities to [[Barrier Warrior|create barriers]] and [[The Medic|heal people]], and her typical outfit in A's is a green shirt with a long white skirt, but despite being one of the more traditionally "feminine" characters in Nanoha, hasn't been criticized for being that. It's not necessarily a bad thing (she's one of my favorite Nanoha characters), but Shamal seems to have most of the characteristics that people complain about under this trope, and it seems unlikely that only the presence of [[
** Low screentime, being the doc and a dress not being dissimilar from a lab coat? Does it matter, really? [[Fan Dumb]] did not take hold. Rejoice while you can.
*** Being a doctor, even a [[Combat Medic]], is probably one of the '''worst''' careers a woman can take in an action anime series in the [[Fan Dumb]]'s eyes, only outranking the Nanohaverse's [[Bridge Bunnies]], the maids and civilians.
** I imagine it helps that she doesn't really have a whole lot of screentime. The women who get hit with the worst [[Fan Dumb]] for being girly also tend to be the ones who are really prominent about it. Shamal isn't exactly a ''minor'' character, but she's definitely sort of a side character; there aren't huge segments of every episode devoted to what Shamal is doing. I imagine people aren't quite so vocal about their complaints if the thing they're complaining about is only on-screen for five minutes every third episode. Also... wouldn't complaining about Shamal be sort of like punching a kitten? She's so loveable.
** I think it might have to do that her first appearance is very badass to say the least. That scene is much more memorable that anything she does after that, conjugate with the fact that she doesn't have much screentime means that [[Fan Dumb]] doesn't strike. Another reason might be that Nanoha isn't popular to attract [[Fan Dumb]] (here I admit that it's a foolish hope more than anything else).
*** Nanoha doesn't attract Fan Dumb? [[Ship
* When Fate is beamed aboard the Arthra with Nanoha, Yuuno and Arf, where exactly did her handcuffs and white prisoner uniform come from? Nanoha and Yuuno had been off the ship since their debriefing after the last battle, Arf had never been on the Arthra before, and no one else was seen coming or going from the ship, which raises the question of how they managed to get them on her.
** Because that moment was NOT right after that? Do you really think that they should have dedicated half episode for that?
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***** Sparring battle =/= incident. And who knows? Maybe Subaru and Nanoha don't see each other after the current events in ''ViVid'' until ''Force'' happens.
* What significance is a magical word at all? Was it even mentioned at any point during ''[[
** If you're asking about Yuuno's advice at the begining of season one, it seemed to be more of a memetic trick Yuuno used because he had difficulty using Raising Heart. Then, after Nanoha gets it, she quickly learns she doesn't actually need to say anything special. If you're talking about incantations, they're spells, unless you have so much power and control that you can force the mana to do what you want, you need some kind of ritual to provide the control for you.
** Its worth noting that for the most part, Nanoha only used her 'personal incantation' (aka, "Lyrical, Magical!") for sealing a Jewel Seed. However, throughout the series, Nanoha at least (and most of the others) use approximately the same motions/actions for using a specific attack - but not always. It's possible that any or all 'external' actions, such as incantations, motions, etc, might be optional - they just help provide the necessary concentration to cast the spell properly.
*** IIRC directly implied actually with example of Fate using weather control magic where they CAN'T be bypassed because of complexity of the spell.
* Just what is up with the Saint Church? They worship the Belkan line of Saint Kings, that I understand. Where I get confused is the reasoning - they worship the Saint Kings for their role in ending the Saint King Unification War. The problem with this being that, as the name of the conflict indicates, the Saint King Unification War was an attempt by the surviving lineage of Saint Kings to reestablish the ancient Belkan empire, through military force. Their role in ending the centuries-long war was getting killed at the end of it. And the Saint Church was formed around the same time as the Time-Space Administration Bureau, seventy-five years before ''[[
** As I understand it the Belkan Empire still existed (at least in name) during the Saint King Unification War, it was simply fighting a multisided civil war. The Saint King Unification War was either an attempt to beat everyone else so badly they wouldn't have the resources and/or morale to fight each other anymore or an attempt to bring peace by creating a common for everyone else to fight against. As for the time it took for the religion to form, most worship-based religions form while the object of worship is still alive.
** [[User:Comartemis]] has a long-held theory that the Belkan Royal Family were actually just figureheads for a group of one or more warmongers or otherwise powerful military figures inside the Belkan Empire, similar to how the Emperor of Japan had no real power on his own during Japan's Sengoku era. Consider what we've seen of the Saint's Cradle, and what's mentioned in the [[All There in the Manual|Manual]]: the Kaisers live their entire lives aboard a secure space-going vessel manned and operated by a combination of military personnel and Type-IV drones. That ship's security system can take control of the Kaiser's body and force her to fight against her will. The Kaiser's throne has ''restraints'' on it, and the throne room is a good distance away from the bridge. None of this speaks of a high regard for the person who's supposed to be the highest authority figure in the Empire; it speaks of a person being used as a weapon, just as Jail used Vivio in ''[[
*** There are a few problems with that theory. First, we don't have the full specifics on the Saint's Cradle, namely which parts of it are original and which are modifications made by Jail. It's implied that Quattro was the one who took control of Vivio in the throne room (via the Relic implanted by Jail), the same way she used her [[Villain Override]] on Lutecia, so it's likely that that factor and the restraints on the throne itself were added by Jail to help him control the Sankt Kaiser. As for the throne room being so far away from the bridge, it's worth pointing out that those in command or members of royalty are unlikely to ever be in the position of actually ''piloting'' the vessel, so it's a normal practice to put them somewhere out of the way of the people who do the actual work of running the vessel. Also, since as it was pointed out that the Kaisers spend their entire lives on board the vessel, it makes sense in a certain way to have the chambers with a more ceremonial purpose (ie the throne room) positioned away from the more functional aspect of the ship to keep the more noisy and undignified process of ''running the ship'' from intruding into matters of state, meaning that in addition to its power as a weapon, the Saint's Cradle also doubles as a massive mobile palace (sort of like how actual palaces kept the servants' areas and facilities out of the way of the throne room and other more "public" areas of the building). So there are a few problems with the above theory.
* Why is it that everyone seems to think that the Belkan civil war that ended with Sankt Kaiser Olivie happened less than 100 years before the series? Or that the shift from mass-based weapons happened then, and not some other point? I mean, the [[Magitek]] and magic system used is far too advanced for just 70 or so years of work. Is it stated somewhere in one of the soundstages or something? Or is all this based purely on the founding date of the TSAB
** Assumption as far as this troper is aware. The Belkan Empire is considered a subject of archelogical record and not written record, so the odds are pretty good we're talking ''at least'' 250 years to eliminate any possiblity of widespread written records or oral history. That or older, pretty much anything goes.
** I ''seem'' to recall a mention of Olivie dying 'around three hundred years ago' in ''[[
** The Japanese Nanoha wiki has a rough chronology of Belka's history, and states that the Unification War took place "hundreds of years" before the current story, beginning with the abandonment of the Belkan homeworld and ending with the loss of the ''Cradle'' and Olivie's death. I think sometime in StrikerS Fate mentions that the foundations for the TSAB were being put down 150 years before the current date, although the organization in its present form has only existed for about 80 years. It's possible that even the Mid-Childan government and the Saint Church are not entirely sure when it happened, due to the general scarcity of records about it.
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** And what about the sizes for the Numbers?
*** Rumiko's Reply: I don't think about such things, and neither should you.
**** Viewer's Rebuttal: Shut up, Rumiko, you haven't been relevant since the eighties.
** What gets me is that people are thinking about this.
*** Anime fans thinking about boobs, it's shocking, I know, this usually never happens.
* Wasn't Nove at all concerned about the possible problems that might arise as a result of her, a former criminal, taking half of the responsibility for her fight with Einhart in ''ViVid''? While taking mutual responsibility should lessen each individual party's responsibility, and Nove and Einhart apparently got off with a warning, it seems that the Numbers cyborgs would need to be considerably more mindful of their actions after their release than even Fate and the Wolkenritter are (although the former villains are good at staying out of trouble).
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* It's been out in Japan for over a month. Why can't I find a detailed summary (in English) of the Nanoha Movie, so that I can know what happened differently from the original timeline?
** [https://web.archive.org/web/20111206045242/http://samukun.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/magical-girl-lyrical-nanoha-movie-first/ Here it is]. Some of the major changes include making Precia more sympathetic (apparently at Fate's insistence, according to the Nanoha Wiki), some of the battles get changed(the ones in 6 and 7 are fused together, and [[Hot Springs Episode|Episode 5]] is removed). Still, much of it remains the same, such as Nanoha and Fate becoming friends in the end, {{spoiler|despite the manga making suggestions that it might not happen}}.
*** Since the movie and the movie tie-in manga are explained as being in-universe creations as well, the answer is likely that the manga was shopped out to some writer that thought a [[Darker and Edgier]] take would be [[True Art Is Angsty|more artistic]]. It probably pissed Nanoha and Fate off and they likely informed the writer if he didn't knock it off they'd drop by and... "make friends".
* Why exactly are the Section 6 members sent to Earth in ''StrikerS Sound Stage 1'' less discreet about their affiliation with the TSAB in the presence of people who don't know aobut the TSAB than the crew of the Arthra in ''A's''? [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WeBuEZu08mQ/RlYhJCXFPNI/AAAAAAAAADw/2N5uZGzurwE/s320/MahouOST.jpg Official artworkp seems to depict Hayate, Fate and Nanoha in uniform alongside the Forwards and Rein in casual clothing], and Subaru refers to Vita by her rank in front of a public bath clerk, and Vita claims to be an adult, despite in the StrikerS manga, suggesting that she [https://web.archive.org/web/20090331192149/http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl_Lyrical_Nanoha_StrikerS/2/13/ would have to transform to look older if she revisited Earth], and apparently not doing so on this mission. By contrast, Fate starts to call Lindy "Admiral Lindy" in front of Nanoha's parents in Episode 4 of ''StrikerS'', but corrects herself and calls her "Lindy-san" instead, and Dr. Ishida (who still isn't aware of magic or the TSAB) becomes suspicious when Hayate refers to Letty as "Admiral". Granted, Nanoha's family, Arissa and Suzuka know about the TSAB but it doesn't seem as though the rest of Earth is any more aware.
** It isn't so bad to [[The Masquerade]] when you think of it. About Nanoha, Fate and Hayate's uniforms, they could have changed in Arisa or Suzuka's house (their houses are shown in the background); you can expect having a few clothe changes if you used their houses as arrival points (and it's definitely better than, say, and open park like in [[The Original Series]]). About Subaru referring Vita by rank, you could only assume it's something militarly-based, and not a multi-dimensional police (she could have been more careful though). Finally, Vita only wants to look older because she'll go see the grampas who she usually meet; they will certainly suspect of a girl that hasn't aged in 10 years.
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* So the need for conventional families is rather nil. At the minimal end, eugenicists may 'need' Fate and Nanoha to get pregnant, but all they need is a turkey baster and someone's sperm. (I'm not sure Yuuno's A-level is really what you want to be breeding with a natural S+ like Nanoha.) At the other extreme, they can cook up as many clones or combinations of Fate, Nanoha, Zest, and maybe Signum (if she manifests DNA) as they wish, with no one needing to get pregnant, and the only limit being how many loving adoptive homes they can find. Pressure to raise kids, not to have them.
** I'm still wondering why Jail didn't try to create android versions of Nanoha and Fate considering he been cloning 12 androids? It can't be that hard to collect their DNA, could it?
*** We don't know that some of the Numbers aren't exactly that. The Combat Cyborg process, though, seems to damage magical ranking; official materials rank the Combat Cyborgs based on a rough mage equivalent to their augmentations, not raw magical power, and none of the post-''[[
**** The augmentations seem to reflect ''physical strength'', rather than magical power. Otto has fairly powerful energy blasts, but her augmentations are only B-rank, and while Nove's are AAA-rank, she doesn't seem much stronger than Subaru (AA-rank by the end of ''StrikerS''), as she gets knocked aside and injures her arm during Subaru's [[Unstoppable Rage]], and fights roughly evenly with her in ''ViVid''.
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* Why exactly do most of the villains (except the Wolkenritter, who were trying to keep their activities [[Don't Tell Mama|a secret from Hayate]], and one time when Arf is wearing a yukata while approaching Nanoha at the hot springs) seem to wear their Barrier Jackets all the time, even outside of combat, until their capture and/or [[Heel Face Turn]]? Chrono implies that Nanoha might be more comfortable if she dispelled her barrier jacket after coming on board the Arthra with her, which seems to imply that they require magical energy and/or conscious effort (after Nanoha loses for the first time against Fate, she wakes up inside Suzuka's house in her civilian clothes) to maintain, and which is why the heroes remove them once danger has passed.
* How did Nanoha became famous on Midchilda? It's like hearing a police officer or someone in the military here get famous. We hear about it then a few months later we forget. but everyone on Midchilda consider her an Idol despite not doing anything big between ''A's'' and ''[[
** We don't know much about that yet, she serves the TSAB for about two or three years before her accident, and according to Vita's narration she already was "the ace loved by everyone", after her recovery she reasumes duty and attend other things but about the more detailed and important one are the case rlated to the first apparition of the gadget drones and the airport's fire incident where she and the other two aces came to save everyone even when they are offduty at the moment.
*** Hayate complains that the news report doesn't mention Nanoha and Fate, since they weren't officially there, and presumably Subaru, Ginga and the other survivors they helped are the only ones who remember.
** Nanoha isn't ''just'' in the military. She's also essentially Superman. If the kind of power she wields doesn't capture the public imagination then the public there is braindead.
** It's possible that her track record of service helped, as Fate has done 21 cases in the years between when she became and Enforcer and when ''StrikerS'' began, and the cases are important, but not exciting enough to make into series. Similarly, Subaru and Teana become "well-respected," among the Bureau, according to Nove, in the years between ''StrikerS'' and ''[[
** Subaru notes in the manga that she was already famous as a nine year old due to the fact that she's an AAA ranked mage, and her most noted accomplishments ("Precia Testarossa Incident" and "Book of Darkness incident") were wide spread rumors throughout the military. Add the fact that Subaru carries a magazine clipping with Nanoha's picture all the time probably suggests that the Mid Childian media got to interview her at one point and set her as a role model for young mages who would want to enter the military.
** The Nanoha movies are movies made in-universe about the incidents. I'm not even WMGing, that's canon, and the [[Word of God]] explanation for the various differences (such as Precia's slightly softer characterization... Fate asked them not to make her mother look ''too'' evil as part of her agreement for letting them make the movie). So basically one reason they're famous is that everyone went to the movies and saw Nanoha befriending the hell out of people.
* Jail Scaglietti's exit strategy relies on {{spoiler|impregnating all his soldiers with clones of himself who can take his place if he dies.}} He keeps sending these same soldiers out into battle, where they {{spoiler|and the clones they carry}} are put at significant risk of harm in ways that could be very bad for a {{spoiler|pregnancy}}. I don't think he's thought this through.
** To be fair, Scaglietti states that they have the genetioc material(or something like that) that would made them pregnant the instant he dies. That's one of the reasons of why Fate decides to HOME RUN'd him instead of the big slash(but i think she will spare hin anyways because Fate is the goodest of the good guys) and probably why his soldiers are able to fight without worrying about a developing fetus.
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** It's around the size of her hand, and comparable in size to Bardiche in standby. It can't be worn as a pendant like devices such as Raising Heart can, but it's relatively easy to store.
* What happened to Vivio being an unstoppable combat monster in her Sankt Kaiser form at the end of ''[[
** Her being unstoppable in StrikerS had a lot to do with being plugged into the Cradle and receiving massive amounts of magical energy from it. In ''ViVid'', she's just running off of her own magic powers, which, while impressive, are nothing compared to what she was channeling back then.
*** Explicitly confirmed in Chapter 19. Shante says that Vivio not having her Sankt Kaiser abilities is ''one of a few'' reasons why she's concerned about her competing in the tournament. Deed doesn't contest her arguments but suggests Vivio has potential.
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** Original poster adding on with an idea from the [[Halo]] [[All There in the Manual|expanded universe]]: I don't know exactly how widespread the damage to Alicia's body was, but unless the girl's brain was damaged couldn't Precia have clone-grown organs to replace the damaged-beyond-functionality ones in Alicia's body (as well as her own damaged lungs)? Was she merely too far in the grips of insanity to think of this, or was it an impossibility with the tech she had access to?
** ''Can'' the cloning tech create a blank slate clone? I don't think so. They made it pretty clear that Fate was her own person, Alicia's memories notwithstanding. Even if it could at a later point, when Precia used it it was still in development and hadn't had all the bugs worked out. As for the immediately preceding question, in the movie, Precia says that Alicia's body is perfectly intact, but that her soul has left it. So it isn't a ''physical'' problem, per se. We also don't know if the cloning tech was even capable of cloning specific body parts.
** Let me just shoot down why this headscratcher can't be resolved: It's never made clear ''how or why Alicia was killed in the first place''. It's shown that it was some sort of accident with a power generator that Precia was working on, but it doesn't seem to have been an explosion or obvious tissue damage... Alicia and Linette (still just a cat then) are shown sprawled on the ground lifeless, without any damage even being shown to the house around them. It's like they just ''died''. It's entirely possible that whatever happened to them prevented the "perfect" cloning that you're talking about... which also ignores that Fate essentially ''was'' as close to a perfect clone of Alicia as she could possibly be, and it was mostly only Precia's knowledge that she really ''wasn't'' Alicia that created the paranoid delusion that she was massively flawed.
* Also, whatever happened to Precia's husband, Alicia & Fate's father?
** It's possible that he's dead, and Precia's inability to turn to anyone for support, combined with the fact that Alicia was the only family she had left compounded the tragedy. The Red Jewel Diaries of [[
* Why did some of the Numbers get locked up and others rehabilitated? Sure, in one or two cases it's obvious, but other than that the divisions seemed really arbitrary.
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** First off, Teana wasn't out for so long because of Nanoha's attack, she was out for so long because she was completely exhausted from over-training. She badly needed sleep, and her body took the first opportunity it had to get it. Also, I don't think they removed from combat readiness because she was recovering, but because they didn't think they could fully trust her after the extremes she went to in the last mission (her attitude upon hearing she was grounded certainly didn't help her case). In any case, Nanoha's... "correction" served several purposes: not only did it knock Teana out when she was clearly not in a sound state of mind, it also showed Teana just how effective shooting magic was. This was a point Nanoha wanted to make to Teana, since Teana was doubting the effectiveness of her own shooting magic, and that was driving her to over-work, something which Nanoha really does not want to see happen. She wasn't necessarily trying to punish Teana per se, she was trying to show Teana that she doesn't ''need'' to overwork herself... just be more patient and the strength she wants will come. Heavy-handed? Maybe, but that's Nanoha for you.
*** Nanoha mentions that Teana's physical and magical condition are less than optimal.
** There's also one of Teana's flaws as a character that creates a vicious cycle; whenever she makes a mistake, she gets depressed and tries to work harder to make up for it, which often leads to making another mistake (the problem started when she wanted to work hard to make up for almost shooting Subaru during the hotel mission, and her deciding to go on the offensive there was influenced by a desperate need to contribute after believing she didn't do much in Episode 5 or [[Striker S]] Sound Stage 1). This lesson appears to have stuck, because in [[
** It was Nanoha's duty as an instructor to control the situation and mete out discipline, but she chose an overly forceful and counterproductive way to do it. It doesn't matter how safe the shots Nanoha fired were, shooting Teana down was a declaration of hostile intent, whether Nanoha wanted to send that message or not. Mages launch attacks like that at their ''enemies''. Blasting Teana in such a fashion qualifies as assault since it was clearly painful, it caused unconcsiousness (even though that unconsciousness was exacerbated by Teana's physical condition) and it caused low-grade medical trauma. (The show states that Teana can't help the Forwards repel the drones that show up, since Teana can't risk further strain on her body after being hit with Nanoha's shots.) Shooting Teana like that was along the bounds of a [[Real Life]] drill instructor tasering a recalcitrant student.
*** Did you not notice the knife-attack Teana used on Nanoha? You know... how it cut up Nanoha's hand, and how Tea's intended strategy was for Subaru to distract Nanoha so she ''wouldn't be able to defend against it''? Nanoha's "declaration of hostile intent" is irrelevent, because Tea had already declared her own hostile intent. Shooting Teana like that was along the bounds of a [[Real Life]] drill instructor tasering a recalcitrant student ''who had just opened fire on them with live ammunition'' (probably with intent to "only wound" rather than kill, but ''hardly'' disproportionate or out-of-bounds).
*** Nanoha clearly wasn't acting in self-defense when she shot Teana; Nanoha had stopped Teana's strike cold already. If Nanoha had shot Teana immediately when Teana prepared to shoot her, then I would have no problem considering Nanoha's actions as a case of self-defense. However, Nanoha deliberately waited a few seconds before opening fire. Furthermore, Nanoha's words to Teana ("I guess I'll cool your head a bit") and Nanoha's words to Subaru ("stay put and watch closely") make it clear that the Nanoha's actions were intended as punishment. No amount of bad behavior justifies being shot at, even if the blast is only made with stun-ammo that puts the target in the hopsital for nearly half a day. ''It doesn't matter'' what Teana did, there are ways to punish her that don't involve scaring her and making her feel pain. Consider: how would you feel about listening to Nanoha if she punished you by shooting you, as opposed to punishing you by confining you to quarters for two weeks?
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** Consider what would happen if Nanoha was an actual enemy. She would've easily killed both Subaru and Teana because of their plan not being well thought out and therefore easy to anticipate and the fact that one of them was not in the best shape. If anything, Nanoha was demonstrating to Subaru what would happen to Teana if she continues her training philosophy and rash behavior in the most realistic, though cold hearted, way possible. And don't forget that Nanoha is willing to do anything just to get her point across.
*** Nanoha's "demonstration" put Teana in the hospital and did short-term damage to Teana's body. Drill sergeants are tough, mean bastards for a reason; if military recruits can't stand up to the rigors of basic training, then they have no business trying to handle the stress of live combat. There's a line between hazing your trainees, and physically abusing them. I'd have to say that any action that puts someone in the hospital falls in the latter category. Besides, what's Nanoha's White Devil Moment supposed to accomplish that something less extreme can't? If Teana can't figure out that she fucked up then she has no business being in the military anyway. What's more, such extreme disciplinary measures invite fear, resentment, or both. It doesn't matter if those reactions are inappropriate for a trainee, Teana would have to be superhuman not to have some sort of negative reaction towards Nanoha for what she did. And those feelings only serve to complicate the lesson Nanoha was trying to deliver and make it less likely Teana understand why she was in the wrong. (I'm not saying Teana would be correct in aforementioned defiance, just that they're a likely byproduct of Nanoha's actions.)
*** Teana was well aware of her condition (or at least she seems to be) before the mock battle commenced but due to her desire to get stronger, deliberately ignores it. Nanoha's training shots probably doesn't hurt that much if one is in top physical condition but since Teana had been overworking herself and was lacking rest, to her the training bullets seemed and felt like lethal ones. Shamal even pointed out that she didn't suffer any serious injuries but since her body was over fatigued even the doctor assumed that she was dead the moment she got sent to the infirmary.And with regards to being "extreme", I'm guessing the objective of Teana's plan was to incapacitate Nanoha to demonstrate that she's a capable, all around mage,the problem is that she intended to physically injure Nanoha so Nanoha simply responded in kind, but was sensible and responsible enough enough not to use anything other than training grade bullets so as to not cause serious injuries. And it's not like they didn't have any negative reaction to the incident; Subaru, who's probably Nanoha's biggest fangirl, was visibly upset when her friend and partner was mercilessly shot down.After the incident, Fate mentioned that the two forwards were showing signs of resentment, leading to the confrontation during episode 9, when Teana was taken off combat readiness. Her remark to Nanoha's order was; "In short, you do not have use for people who do not follow your orders, right?" She then follows this remark with " I have done everything that I was told to do, Even concerning the things with regards to my training. Do I have to follow everything that you say, even concerning the amount of effort I put off the field?" explicitly stating that she is very much dissatisfied with the way things are turning out. After she got punched by Signum for being "A selfish brat" Subaru comes to her partner's defense, asking Signum if putting extra effort to becoming stronger in one's own way was a bad thing. They would've kept their feelings of resentment if Shari had not stepped in and explained Nanoha's history to the forwards with Signum giving them a pep talk about when to push one's self to the limit.
**** It should be noted that Subaru concedes that Teana was out of line with her outburst immediately before asking Signum the question. Her fandom of Nanoha has limits, but the same can be said of her support for Teana.
**** Subaru's admiration of Nanoha may have limits, but the same can't be said on her support for Teana [[Les Yay|(why else do you think rainbows are straighter than her?)]]. A good example of how far she's willing to go for her partner is when Teana misfired during their operation at Hotel Augusta. She tried taking the blame for Teana's mistake by making up excuses, painting herself as the incompetent one (Vita didn't buy it). She even stated that she's prepared for any punishment and she was pretty used to getting scolded the night before the "White Devil Incident", but assures Teana that as long as they show results, then everything will be fine, so she's well aware of the possible results of their plan and is probably banking on the idea that Nanoha will be nice enough to overlook the dangerous aspects of their plan in favor of the results it may bring.
** Plain and simple: [[Values Dissonance]]. In the Japanese military (and thus in most fictional militaries created for anime and manga) it's acceptable to strike your subordinates if you think they have it coming. Thus why Nanoha pounding Tea with training bullets would be seen by the others as just a "slight overreaction"... it's more that it's a bit out of character for Nanoha than that it's not considered kosher. (Tea's probably lucky that Signum or Vita weren't more directly in charge of her training, either of them might have kicked the crap out of her several times by that point, and in a more lasting and physical way to boot.) I'm one of the ones that thinks Nanoha definitely went too far and Tea didn't really deserve that, but it's hard to argue with the fact that it sort of did work, plus as explained in the anime Nanoha has personal experiences with pushing yourself too hard and thus causing injury to yourself and others that probably affected her judgment on what was appropriate to use as discipline for someone she thought was making the same mistake.
* I get that the series has an [[
** I would assume that the tournaments are gender-divided, at least on the child/teenager side.
* Is Chrono and Lindy's surname a [[Shout
** Does it have to be? Perhaps the writers were simply trying to think of an exotic name that doesn't sound Japanese or of Earth origin, and only started going into [[Theme Naming]] and references when the Midchildians comprised the majority of the cast in [[Striker S]]..
* How did you think Mid-Childa became the dominant power in the Nanoha-verse. I mean, Velkan technology seemed more advanced in so much as modern Mid-Childan technologies still fail to grasp some Velkan originated stuff (Unison Devices such as Rein and Agito are examples)
** The Velkan homeworld was lost to an unspecified magical accident, and then the remaining Velkan peoples ripped each other apart in a massive civil war. The civilization quite literally destroyed itself. Now there's a couple hundred year gap in the history at this point, but Mid-Childa was the most powerful entity around after Velka's fall, and so gained dominance. Even the Mid-Childans don't seem to know what happened during that gap.
** Velkan technology isn't always more advanced so much as it is more... powerful. Agito's a good example... she's extremely powerful, but a bit persnickety and difficult to work with, and she doesn't sync quite right with anyone but Signum (who she was probably intended for originally). But also, look at the cartridge system... yes, it's very powerful, but it also puts much more delicate, advanced, and subtle devices like Raising Heart and Bardiche at threat of destruction because it just channels so much raw power, whereas Velkan devices are a little bit more straightforward and basic. (Bardiche and Raising Heart can actually have somewhat stilted conversations with their wielders, while Signum's sword seems to have the most personality of the Wolken's devices and the most it does is acknowledging a compliment from Fate/Bardiche with "Jawohl." at one point.) The tech working on them actually pleads with Bardiche and Raising Heart to not insist on using the Cartridge System because it could "kill" them. Between A's and StrikerS a lot of advances seem to have been made with integrating Velkan tech and Midchildan tech to let it have more of a balance of intelligence and power.
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