Automoderated users, Autopatrolled users, Comment administrators, Confirmed users, Moderators, Rollbackers
29,188
edits
Metal Gear/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions
m
no edit summary
m (update links) |
mNo edit summary |
||
| (3 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
{{work}}
'''Note''': In an effort to bring some order to the [[Metal Gear/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Headscratchers page]], Headscratchers that focus on something from a single game have been moved to that games page. If you have a Headscratcher that you think only applies to one game, please consider putting it on one of the following pages:
Line 10 ⟶ 6:
* ''[[Metal Gear Solid/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Solid]]''
* ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Solid 2 Sons of Liberty]]''
* ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater]]''
* ''[[Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops]]''
* ''[[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns of the Patriots]]''
* ''[[Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker/Headscratchers|Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker]]''
* ''[[Metal Gear Acid
Otherwise, if your Headscratcher applies to the series overall, post it here.
----
* Why does Raven refer to Ocelot as Ivan in the aftermath of the tank battle in MGS1? Presumably this is his name. So why is he known as Shalashaska in MGS2? If this isn't his name and is instead a nickname, why does he announce it to Cmdr Dolph, "I'm Shalashaska also known as Revolver Ocelot" in a way makes it appear like he's declaring a double barrelled nickname. Most people would say "I'm Crazy Ivan also called Revolver Ocelot." So... why is he called Adamska in MGS3 and 4? no mention given of Ivan or Shalashaska even though one of these names is apparently famous enough to be reconized by the US Marine Corps.
** "Ivan" is a popular catch-all nickname for Russians. "Crazy Ivan" is a fictional submarine maneuver supposedly employed by Russians to check behind them in case another sub was following them.
** You're taking everything ''way'' too much at face value. You're talking about ''Revolver Ocelot'', a guy most famous for simultaneously lying to and backstabbing everyone he meets for his entire life. He's a guy who went [[Serial Escalation]] as far as double agenting and backstabbing goes, and you're taking him at his word for ''any'' of those names? You can ''never'' presume he's telling the truth.<br /><br />Ivan, as mentioned, is a catch-all nickname for Russians and Russia in general. Shalashaska is explicitly a nickname (referring to his torture methods, if I'm not mistaken). Adamska is a reference to the fact that he was the real ADAM from MGS3, that Naked Snake was supposed to meet.
Line 34 ⟶ 30:
**** Geneva convention does indeed cover anti-terrorist actions. Specifically through the "And everyone not mentioned above" clause.
***** No it doesn't; Geneva only applies to conflicts between two or more nations, not to internal actions. The Genome Soldiers are Americans and Ocelot's army aren't operating on behalf of Russia, so neither would be an applicable case. As a result, wearing the enemy's uniform would be entirely legal; this would even apply to MGS3, since it's a espionage action, not an international conflict of any kind.
*** Even within the Geneva Convention, it's still legal to wear the uniforms of the enemy or fly their flag. You just have to take off the disguise before you start shooting.
** In the first two games, the guns are locked onto the genetics of the holder, meaning that they'd be useless in Snake's or Raiden's hands. Although {{spoiler|since Snake's a clone just like the rest, he really ought to be able to use them...}}
*** The Genome Army is genetically-enhanced, not cloned, and the mooks in MGS2 are ordinary Russian mercenaries, who are somehow more intelligent than their (pre-Twin Snakes) predecessors.
Line 48 ⟶ 44:
*** ''[[Metal Gear]] Solid 4'' reveals that he is...both. Originally a member of the Patriots, but when the great schism occurred, he covertly supported Big Boss while overtly working for the Patriots. So...yeah, both.
**** Ocelot was one of the founders, but stayed in Russia as a spy. Over time, he got cut out of the loop on certain things.
**** By the time MGS2 takes place, the A.I are in control, and Ocelot is reduced to an agent
* The contrived appearance of a clone of Big Boss as the US president, almost as it was a twist for the sake of it that the sequel would neeed to handle later, has always bugged me. ¿What were thinking the patriots for placing George Sears as president? In MGS4 we learned about the love Zero professed for Big Boss, but if this was the only motivation for it it's kind of difficult to imagine what were the future plans for the US presidency after the Sears administration because there are only three clones (two of them not very qualified for ruling the US, and probably the people would notice that the three last presidents had the same friggin' face) and returning to common politicians as James Johnson would made the whole Big-Boss-Clone-As-President plan just for the whims of the secret ruler of the world a bit pointless. The alternative would be the patriots put Solidus in charge as president because they wanted him to do some important job that needed the leadership that only a clone of Big Boss could bring and after the MGS events this hypothetical task got delayed or canceled, but there's not even the slightest evidence of this theory and we don't wanna go into [[Wild Mass Guessing]] territory so this raises the headscratcher: Was all this for the whims of Zero or just a gratuitous twist for Kojima's part?
* Why is it that Solid and Liquid look absolutely nothing alike, considering that they are clones?
Line 54 ⟶ 50:
** [[Hideo Kojima]] got [[Did Not Do the Research|precisely one]] thing correct about genes. Blond hair is, in fact, a recessive trait. That and lifestyle differences.
*** No, he didn't. Solid is the "recessive" one, despite looking just like his father, Big Boss, at that age. Apparently, cloning is the crapshoot.
**** Solid Snake is the dominant clone.
***** No, actually, [[The Stinger]] reveals that Liquid is the dominant clone.
****** No, actually, the stinger reveals Liquid is the "superior" clone, which he would be to the Patriots as he has the Soldier genes. (which are recessive) Snake's got more dominant genes, but is "inferior" due to lacking Soldier genes. Inferior = recessive is only in Liquid's mind.
*** Also, if I recall, in the briefing Snake actually cut and dyed his hair so he would look less like Liquid. Their hair colour and style is pretty much the only thing that keeps them from being totally identical, apparently.
*** So does this mean Big Boss dyed his hair when he was Naked Snake?
*** No. There's no mention of him dying his hair, just cutting it.
**** Although, considering he was trained in stealth and specialised in woodland areas, it would make sense for him to dye his hair an earthier colour.
Line 75 ⟶ 71:
** Snake and Big Boss smoked a pack a day. Solidus and Liquid didn't. That's all there is to it. {{spoiler|Well, that and the fact that Big Boss's body was patched up with Solidus and Liquid's tissue in four.}}
*** Besides smoking, I think it's safe to say that Liquid sounds different because he was raised in England, obviously. Solid trained under Big Boss personally, so it seems pretty likely that he'd sound more like him as time went on. Solidus, I don't think had much/any contact with Big Boss and moved around a lot, and definitely met lots of different sounding people as the President, also, not smoking would make both Solidus's and Liquid's voice less gruff sounding. As far as Big Boss sounding different in 4, well, figure in the above spoiler content, and the fact that, even if his vocal chords were okay, he was still in a coma multiple times, and also BURNT UP. Plus, aging naturally could change his voice whereas Snake was engineered to be like him, so it'd make sense his would stay more similiar, especially with not having a whole lot of people around him to affect that.
** Actually, in the Japanese version of the game, Solidus and Solid (Naked in MGS3 as well) are voiced by the same guy, Akio Otsuka. {{spoiler|1=Big Boss in MGS4 was voiced by Akio Otsuka's father.}} So with the English version, it probably just boils down to casting. As much as I love Dayter, he really can't do a different sounding voice... Otsuka differentiates the voices of Solidus and Solid a little bit, just so you can see them as two different people. Liquid was raised in England, so there's a perfectly legitimate reason why he sounds different.
* What makes a Metal Gear better than a nuclear-armed submarine, outside of [[Rule of Cool]]? Anything?
** It takes only one person to pilot a Metal Gear, as opposed to the whole crew needed for the submarine.
Line 85 ⟶ 81:
**** Though if realistically Big Boss would be a high ranking General if he were in command of one the U.S Military's greatest units; why was Roy Campbell a Colonel during his tenure?
**** Ranks are only really useful for the purpose of a chain of command, which Big Boss usually operated outside of. Mostly likely Big Boss's "rank" was considered one underneath whoever was ordering his unit around for the purpose of that mission, or something similar to that.
* Did Big Boss give Solid, Liquid and Solidus their codenames? Seems pretty ridiculous to me that a man who never considered them his sons would give them titles that relate to his old FOX title. In fact, according to Liquid, Big Boss hated him so much he continually taunted him throughout his entire youth about his so-called inferior genes... although this in itself is pretty ridiculous considering it seems pretty out of character for a man who was an anti-hero at worst.
** The novelization of Metal Gear Solid 1 makes it clear that Snake and Liquid were given the designated codenames of Solid and Liquid from the time they were born in a secret Military facility in New Mexico. Solidus is heavily implied to have been more of a top secret project even in comparison to Snake or Liquid, so I doubt Big Boss ever learned about him before MGS4. Also Liquid's claims about Big Boss seem rather exaggerated given what we know about the man's strong moral character, if anything Liquid's claims about Big Boss sound more like something the Patriots would have done as they were raising him.
* The swords the Cyborg Ninjas use, the games claim that they vibrate the blade to incredibly high frequencies which heats them up to a point where they can cut through virtually anything. How? Any sword hot enough to cut through Metal Gears (armor that is stated to be able to withstand anything short of HEAT, or high-explosive-anti-tank, rounds) like butter would require internal hardware similar to a lightsaber and would totally obliterate the metal blade.
** I've never heard of them generating ''heat'' through the vibrations. I've just heard that the vibrations just make it cut better. The same principle is why there's electric turkey carvers that vibrate.
*** Here is a direct quote from the MGS4 Database: "Electric signals in the megahertz to the gigahertz range are known as high frequencies. Channeling high frequency energy through a sword raises its temperature, thereby increasing its cutting ability." Energy hot enough to cut through Metal Gear armor should obliterate the blade itself unless it somehow has a dense layer of metal to be armored against that, which would make it very heavy and yet Snake carries it with ease before he gives it to Raiden.
* So, a question from someone who knows about as much about engineering and the tactics of nuclear warfare as I do about the intricacies of being a magical unicorn from beyond the moon: Is Metal Gear Rex both technologically feasible (specifically, the idea of launching a nuke silently, not the 'walking tank' aspect) and practical (i.e. would a military even want one in the first place)?
** The whole Mech concept in general is completely flawed from a real world point of view - not only would it be obscenely expensive but there is pretty much nothing a walking tank could do that either a treaded tank or a Stryker couldn't do either better or to an effective standard. But, by far, the biggest practical flaw with Metal Gear is that we already have two perfectly viable launching platforms to fire a nuke anywhere in the world: they're called nuclear submarines and B2-Stealth bombers. The whole nuclear aspect behind Metal Gear was obsolete even during the MSX Metal Gear series. As for the stealth nuke, yes, theoretically speaking it would work; Modern missile countermeasures scan for ballistic missiles using their tail fire, which a railgun nuke wouldn't have as it's fired like a bullet. Practically however, not only does the technology to build a railgun not exist, but firing a missile like a bullet would have horrific accuracy over even a moderate range. A cruise missile would still be far, ''far'' superior.
*** Granin's justification for Metal Gear having legs is that artillery has great fire power but has poor mobility and that infantry has minor fire power but excellent mobility, by giving a tank legs it would be able to quickly enter a battle unleash devastating force and then move on to a more strategic position in no time at all. Regular tanks weigh a few dozen tons and anything the size of a Metal Gear (they stand about 75 feet tall, which is longer than an Olympic Swimming Pool) would have to weight several hundred tons, give or take its ammunition, meaning those legs would give it '''terrible''' traction and would most likely collapse under its own weight. In real life tanks and artillery are not as slow as people think and could reach any tactical position necessary during a battle that a Metal Gear could achieve and even if it couldn't helicopters or planes could easily air-lift it, the legs don't provide any sort of advantage over treads/wheels. Anyway looking past the implausibility of Metal Gears as a concept RAY would be far more tactically versatile on the battlefield than REX would be, since it can operate on land or sea it could function as a submarine or tank when the situation calls for it, and has far more options for retreat, and because of this it would be more useful as a nuclear platform as it really '''can''' fire a nuke from '''anywhere''' on Earth.
**** As for the science of the Rail Gun, it is in a very experimental stage for the U.S Navy right now, it uses magnetic rails to accelerate its ammunition to speeds several times the speed of sound. At speeds like that shells that normally wouldn't even be able to dent heavy armor like on a tank or a Navy Ship would be able to turn it into mush and the sheer friction from the heat of the round traveling through the air would turn the air into '''plasma.''' As with all weapons a rail gun of course needs a power source, regular electricity would require it to charge for a significant length of time before it could fire so for it to be practical it would need a nuclear generator which are so big only an aircraft carrier or a Navy Ship would be able to carry one, a Metal Gear can't function as a power source for the rail gun. Even with that in mind no real world rail gun is (currently) capable of making a nuclear warhead reach escape velocity, the kind of power it would need to propel a warhead like a bullet to any location on the face of the Earth would overcharge the rail gun and blow itself up, so Liquid Ocelot's plan to destroy JD which is a satilite in space would have failed realistically and it certainly wouldn't be able to hit a target from any location on Earth as advertised. If you were to tell a U.S Navy guy that a rail gun could function as a nuclear platform they would laugh at you, the U.S Navy is planning to install the rail gun as a battlefield weapon in 2020 as a bunker buster type weapon that will destroy fortified positions from sea so troops can storm their target without issue.
***** The real world impracticability of the application of Metal Gear is well covered above however I think two things have been forgotten that need to be considered here: 1) Over the last 25 years there has been a shift toward protecting our soldiers using computers and unmanned combat as opposed to the Zurg Rush mentality of the previous centuries. 2) Traditional country on country warfare is rapidly dying out; America's last true war was all the way back in 2001. Replaced with proxy wars, small scale regional conflicts and battles against terrorist insurgents, as such, the need for huge hulking tanks such as Metal Gear has been replaced with the need for versatile multi-function vehicles. The unmanned Metal Gears, specifically the Gekko and the mass-produced RAY have a wide range of potential uses and could quite easily work in the real world.
****** The Gekko is capable of entering, climbing and jumping over a building which makes it superior to any wheeled vehicle we are currently fielding, has highly accurate friend or foe recognition, is immune to small arms fire the RPG and IED's, is capable of acting completely independently or in a group and is capable of demolishing a building using in-built explosives. The mass-produced RAY possesses the intelligence and armour of a Gekko and, piloted by a satellite, could potentially make a marine landing against a fully entrenched position easily and without threatening a single member of your side. Most ships would also find combating a group of mass-produced RAY's near enough impossible which would end the need for costly naval battles. Finally, as stated above, the submersible capabilities of the manned RAY would make it superior to the REX's nuclear launch capabilities; the mass-produced RAY would trump even that... a nuclear equipped, unmanned vehicle that could bomb anywhere on Earth without putting a single American life at risk.
****** As stated above already if Metal Gears functioned in the way portrayed in the games as opposed to how they would realistically function in real life then yes they would be far superior to any battlefield tank or artillery battery we currently have in service, could replicate the functions of a submarine, and could be used to supplement and enhance our current nuclear strategy. The game actually does acknowledge how it is possible for the Metal Gears to function the way they do, if you read the Database then it states that Granin's Metal Gear project couldn't be funded because his theoretical hydraulic system needed to make the Metal Gears function was so ahead of its time no one else other than him knew how to make it (the Shagohad was easier to make with the technology available at the time. Were it not for the blueprints Granin left behind Metal Gear probably would have been lost to history). This does raise a question however; any hydraulic system sophisticated enough to operate something like a Metal Gear would have virtually limitless capabilities for enhancing already existing technology like tanks, cars, planes, etc.
* Why was FOX and later FOXHOUND both disbanded by the U.S Military? Just because a few key members of those organizations staged rebellions doesn't mean the whole unit was rogue. It would be like if a few members of the Navy Seals went rouge and started killing everyone and in response the Navy shuts down the entire Navy Seals program. That wouldn't happen in real life, they would simply replace the rogue members and be more strict about who they pass for selection.
** One possible option: scapegoatism. The Pentagon has to be able to say, "This person's at fault, we have punished them appropriately"... And if "this person" is dead, then he needs to be replaced with "That person" who is alive, regardless of whether that person actually did anything wrong. Of course, this would require the disaster to become at least-somewhat-public knowledge, and off the top of my head I don't remember whether they were able to keep Shadow Moses quiet. (Check out the Headscratchers page for [[24]] for more on this mentality.)
* Do Solid Snake and Big Boss even have a formal rank in the U.S Military? Snake has a background in the Green Berets during the First Iraq War/Desert Storm and CIA Para-Military forces, and Big Boss was a Green Beret during the Korean War and Vietnam War. A general trend I have seen is that elite warriors tend to want to avoid becoming an officer so they can continue fighting; so what a Sergeant? Big Boss during his years as FOXHOUND Commander had to have become an officer by then, probably a Colonel or General. Do the writers intend for us to believe that Snake and Big Boss are so top secret that they don't officially exist and thus can't have a rank or are their ranks unimportant?
** The short answer is no; FOX was a CIA division, and FOXHOUND was modeled after FOX by Big Boss. Both were geared towards Solo sneaking missions, so rank would be irrelevant as you shouldn't be interacting with allied forces anyway. The only person who had a rank in the operation would be the CO (aka Big Boss in [[MG 1]], and Cambell in the second onwards, with Major Zero in 3 as FOX's), and there are plenty of members of both organisations who were never apart of the US military (ie; everyone in Liquid's FOXHOUND was either a civillion, a mercenary, or was a member of another nation's army before FOXHOUND). There's no need for them to have ranks, as they're not supposed to be in the field with other military units anyway.
*** However don't Special Forces have ranks? For example when former Navy Seals or Delta Force members are interviewed they occasionally state their ranks. I thought FOXHOUND was supposed to be an official Special Forces Unit underneath SOCOM authority. What you're saying is that it is more or less unofficial and is an "off-the-books" operation?
**** I'm not sure where you learnt that but I'm assuming you are referring to Meryl's [[In Name Only]] FOXHOUND? the one commanded by Big Boss and Campbell was beyond top secret and was reserved for use when official action would have been too dangerous or politically sensitive; for example assassinating or kidnapping foreign officials. Essentially FOXHOUND originally operated similar to the organization from [[Mission: Impossible]]; for all and intents and purposes they don't exist.
**** No I was talking about Big Boss's time in FOX and Snake's time in FOXHOUND as agents. Both Snake and Big Boss are repeatedly reminded of their mission priorities and are told that the Pentagon and Washington have command authority; I interpreted that to mean that FOX/FOXHOUND were official organizations that were under the authority of the Special Forces, which are overseen by SOCOM, and of course the Government. I mean official organizations that some times do top secret black ops on the side (i.e. Navy Seals killing Osama Bin Laden). I guess the picture you're painting makes more sense given the nature of the Patriots though.
* Why aren't the ramifications of the Arsenal Gear crash ever really dealt with? It crashed through Manhattan and landed at Federal Hall which would have killed thousands of people and have cost billions in property damage which would have made it the most infamous terrorist incident in history even eclipsing 9/11. The first responders would have been on alert immediately searching for survivors and to seal off danger zones and sure enough the police are on the scene of the crash minutes after Raiden killed Solidus, the dead body of the former President of the United States would have been fun for them to explain to their superiors. Not to mention the Vice President would have to take over and address the nation since Ocelot killed the current President. Also the PMC response to this terrorist incident doesn't make sense to me either, 9/11 saw rapid militarization of the United States and put us in a war that lasted 10 years, you would think that the people of the United States would be calling out to Washington to build up the Military even more to protect its borders rather than privatize the Military. The illogical PMC response is the only thing Campbell has to say about the Arsenal Gear crash, there are so many other factors to consider that the Patriots must have had a field day trying to cover up.
** It would have been hard work Yes, but the fact is that the Patriots ''DID'' cover it up.
** 1) 9/11 doesn't apply to the Metal Gear Universe; In the real world America is controlled by the people (something ultimately called the Second Amendment) as well as a truly democratically elected government. 9/11 hit so hard because the real world US had grown complacent with too much faith in it's security given it's unequalled military superiority and the fact there hasn't been any true bloodshed on American soil (by a foreign enemy) since the Revolution. The Metal Gear Universe on the other hand is controlled absolutely by the Patriots - military, media, government, economy, resources ''everything.'' If they didn't want a 9/11 style build up then it wouldn't happen; if the Patriots didn't want a war it wouldn't happen or it would benefit them somehow. The death of the president could easily have been explained by him being taken ill or deciding to step down voluntarily as they had with Solidus not a few years beforehand. Let's not also forget the impact of SOP a few short years later, filtering out harmful digital information and controlling anyone in authority with the power to fight back,
Line 110 ⟶ 106:
* Something I've always wondered about the Patriots is what would happen if the civilian population ever found out about them. I'm assuming for the great majority of the American population it would come as a surprise that a secret society of Military and Corporate Interests controlled the United States government making all of their civil rights guaranteed under the law one big fraud. Most people probably don't believe in conspiracies, but they at least acknowledge the existence of minor cases of corruption which are just flaws in the men running the system rather than a flaw in the system itself. The more cynical that already believed that the corporations had long ago bought out the the government with their lobbying in the United States Senate and already controlled the flow of information probably wouldn't be too surprised they would only now have a name to place on those conspiracies. What do you think would happen to the future of the United States after the Patriots were found out?
** Interesting question: personally I think it would be similar somewhat to [[The Matrix]]; People of establishment who are so dependent on what they perceive to be the US way of life such as Lawyers would probably just announce the evidence as fake or collaborate because they ''need'' the way of life they've become accustomed to; those who believe in the democracy and freedom the US represents would also probably ignore it given the realization they are living in a dictatorship. Only the young would (likely) rebel and they would of course fail; SOP would deactivate all weapons except civilian firearms which would give the US military a simple choice: allow the crazed civilians to run around with the only weapons available, join them and have all your weapons and equipment deactivate or continue to enforce the Patriots rule by suppressing the rebellion - some choice huh?
*** On that note another thing I have wondered about: How high ranking in civilian society or in the Military do you have to be before you learn about the Patriots' Secret Society? I can understand the rich CEOs or high ranking General Officers being told about the Patriots so that they realize where the orders really come from. I imagine it would be exceedingly rare for a local businessman or lower-ranking officer to even know that the Patriots exist let alone any of their secrets. If I remember correctly Colonel Campbell seems to know about them but maybe he's a special case given his relationship to Big Boss.
* This is more so about development of the series, but under the [[Creator Backlash]] page it said that head creator of the series didn't want to make any more Metal Gear games after [[Metal Gear Solid]]. If that's the case, then why did he end that game and it's sequel on sequel bait and essentially make the fans demand more?
** He apparently just thought the stinger to the first game was a neat twist, and the second game was less a [[Sequel Hook]] and more of a belligerent, "You like twists? I got your twist right here." There's a reason that, of all [[MGS 2]]'s bits that [[MGS 4]] went out of its way to explain, the "They've been dead for 100 years," line was just brushed off with, "Yeah, that was a load of bull, ignore it."
Line 116 ⟶ 112:
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Games/Headscratchers]]
[[Category:Metal Gear]]▼
[[Category:Headscratchers]]
| |||