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== You shall meet enemies three... ==
Okay so according to Chris Avellone the "enemies three" that were spoken of are Fhjull, Trias, and Ravel. I can understand Trias and Ravel but why Fhjull? He's very incidental to the plot. He may wish you harm, but he's hardly the only character in the game who does. Is there something I'm missing?
* Just to put this in here, THIS is the official Quote: Deionarra: [to Nameless One] You shall meet enemies three, but none more dangerous than yourself in your full glory. They are shades of good, of evil and of neutrality given life and twisted by the laws of the planes.
* The entire point is that the characters are "twisted", we have Fjhull (evil but doing good) Trias (good but doing evil) and Ravel (a Night Hag who genuinely loved someone, values freedom but voluntarily stays in a cage... complicated) They all hold pieces of information that you need.
* Bah, the creator knows nothing. The Nameless One's third enemy is clearly himself - whether in the form of the Transcendent One or just the hell he's condemned himself to. Fhjull isn't even an enemy; he's a convenient source of help that just happens to hate you in a general sort of way.
** If you kill Trias, which frees Fhjull from his contract with him, you will see a cutscene showing him happy to finally be free. Right then he suddenly remembers that he has met you before but doesn't say anything more. Perhaps something that got cut out at the last minute?
** This Troper always assumed that it was [[Lawful Good|Trias]], [[Chaotic Neutral|Ravel]] and [[Lawful Evil|Pharos]], and '''nothing''' can convince him otherwise. Oh, and to respond to the one above that claimed that "Him Self" was one of the three, that is wrong. Him Self was mentioned in the prophecy. The full quote went "You shall meet Enemies Three, but none of ''them more powerful than you self in your full glory''..."
*** You mean Pharod, right? He isn't very twisted though.
*** None more dangerous than yourself in your full glory. So yes you in your full glory(the transcendent one.) is one of your enemy but separate from the enemies three. And it can't be pharod because and i quote "Given life and twisted by the laws of the planes.", pharod is mortal, mortals are born OF the prime not OF the (outer)planes, even if we was born in Sigil. The three the developers mentioned fit the prophecy all are planar creatures, and all have been twisted from there natural state by those same laws.
**** SO Trias is a [[Lawful Good]] being but has been twisted into evil due to [[Knight Templar|higher goal]], Ravel is Chaotic but is fiercely loyal to the (idea) of the Nameless One, and XXXX is evil but does good because of.... Why? and Who? Help me here, I have pondered this question for like a decade. Or maybe it is Fhjull, a extra-planar who does "good" (e.g. help you) because of a curse. But that is a let-down, so [[
**** Might ''you in your full glory'' refer to the synthesis of the Nameless One and the Transcendent One? The being that you become when you merge them at the end of the game and that talks in CAPITALS sounds pretty dangerous to me, as it is the Nameless One with all the abilities of his past incarnations. This might free the Transcendent One up to be one of the Enemies Three.
***** As neat as that would be... no. Remember that that ending, although the best and most fulfilling one, is just ''one'' of the possible endings.
***** This Troper has a vague memory of the novelization [[Discontinuity|that does not exist]]) that mentions that the unspeakable crime that The Original Nameless One made was a deal with Fhjull. SO maybe the three is linked to the original. Fhjull was the reason that you ''seeked'' immortality; Rhavel is the one that ''gave'' you immortality and Trias... ''damn'', that was almost something.
***** Trias is the one who keeps you immortal, by lying to you when you meet him in Curst. The SOB. There isn't that better? :)
***** I figured that Fhjull was the one who signed you up for the Blood War, prompting you to see Ravel, who was the one who let you find an escape clause. Trias, by the end, is the only one who actually has the solution to your curse. Their twisted natures are explained above, but their roles in your life seem fairly clear to me.
****** Holy shite, that fucking '''WORKS!''' (Oh, and throw in the one who forces you to accept your fate at last - You Self In Your Full Glory)
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== Xachariah ==
So what about the archer guy? They mentioned him a bit right before we entered the Fortress, and that's that? I'd've loved to know more about him.
* He's in the Mortuary actually, if you want to talk to him... (he's kind of... Not-living at this point though so you need Stories-Bones-Tell or Grace's Speak-With-Dead) You don't learn much more but a few tidbits.
* His name is Xachariah and apparently he was an alcoholic. Also, because Nameless ''defines'' [[Crazy Prepared]], you left a few items ''inside his body'' to help you out later.
* I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the coolest part, not only was he an excellent marksman, he was also BLIND!
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In the Planes, [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe]] is an actual law of physics, allowing you to do things like make a plant grow by willing it to or create a person out of thin air by telling enough people the same lie about your name. Although this is apparently not necessarily common knowledge, so most people wouldn't be able to exploit it, it's not really adequately explained why those people who ''do'' know aren't all powerful [[Reality Warper|Reality Warpers]].
* Because usually, said belief goes up against the consensus belief in reality of everybody else nearby. Minor changes like making a plant faintly more healthy by faith is possible if nobody else is around to actively disbelieve it, and The Nameless One is a special case that makes the creation of a stand-in easier, but big changes require more belief than any single person possesses and ends up chafing against the beliefs of everyone else nearby, who are usually in the majority.
** It also *is* possible to become a [[Reality Warper]] in the Planescape setting. See the Nameless One arguing someone out of existence, {{spoiler|figuring out that, by believing he can make himself cease to exist, he can,}} oh, and lets not forget ''magic'' which is not just possible but ''ubiquitous'' in every D&D world setting ever and ultimately amounts to someone causing their belief about how the universe should be to come to pass through sheer force of will. Most people just don't have the force of personality/ enlightenment to attain this.
** That said, there is a faction in the setting the game is based on called the Sign Of One who essentially all believe they are [[Reality Warper|Reality Warpers]], whose belief literally keeps the world existing. They tend to be extremely solipsistic.
*** The Godsmen are a more "outward" form of this belief, apparently.
**** The Godsmen believe in karma and reincarnation. Their belief is basically that every time you die you are reborn into a new life state depending on how you've lived your life up until this point. They're called 'godsmen' because they believe all beings have the potential for divinity in them, and their goal is to become gods.
** tl;dr on this subject: The most evident example of how the [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe]] effect of the planes works is when {{spoiler|Curst plane-shifts into Carceri}} because of the chaos unleashed in the former area. You have to re-balance the events in that area in order to keep things from further falling apart because everyone's collective understanding of their surroundings is changing and you need to change them back. This means that there's an invisible system of "Paradigm vs Paradigm" that is never truly explained in-game or anywhere for that matter, where the presiding paradigm of a local area's population defines its shape and substance.
** Further examples: The Hive is a filthy trash-pit because it is where individuals whose minds reflect its surroundings gravitate to, which further influences its state as a filthy pit. If one individual from a different ward decided to go force the Hive into being a clean and tidy ward through sheer force of will, he would need to have to beat out the collective paradigm of the residents of the Hive and, indeed, every individual who has memories of the Hive being the Hive and also be able to believe hard enough to change the physical matter of the Hive etc etc. However, changing small details within the world is fairly easy to achieve by one individual. Creating {{spoiler|Adahn}} through belief or changing something small like how fast a plant grows. To be perfectly redundant: if you tried to make all plants in Sigil grow fast, you'd be fighting everyone's perception of how plants grow. This is also why the Lady of Pain does not allow gods in Sigil or for others to worship her, because of the fear of a ''collective'' shift in the paradigm of Sigil as a neutral zone. And furthermore, it is both why gods exist ''and'' why the planes exist. Gods are beings of intense will and they can distort reality at will, but even they only to an extent, and on top of that it's implied that gods themselves only exist because they have followers who believe in what alignment/worldly aspects they represent.
** If I'm understanding this correctly, the Nameless One couldn't have just faked his death and had people advertise this at the beginning of the game, since he didn't ~know~ that group thought could affect reality in this way? Or how would that work out?
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** No, no, no, I mean the potential amnesia is what is bleak, not being sent to hell.
*** The amnesia is part of the natural order, though. You die, forget the petty details of your mortal life, and are sent to the next stage based on what you did and who you were the first time around. So, like dying, TNO has to finally do what everyone does and stop dicking around.
**** I think his death amnesia is the same general thing as petitioner amnesia. So he'd probably remember.
* Wait... on further recollection, Deonarria, and the undead died with their memories somewhat intact, so what's going on?
** Undead aren't petitioners, since they haven't passed on. As for the Nameless One, well, maybe the immunity to death-amnesia still works after getting your mortality back? Not to mention, since there's a fairly good chance of TNO not being Lawful Evil by the end, he wouldn't naturally be going to Hell. Maybe that messed things up?
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== The Good Incarnation's Death ==
* If you ask the Good Incarnation how he died, he says that he was hunted down by Shadows on Bytopia. But it's possible to find out that the Good Incarnation is also the First Incarnation, i.e. the original Nameless One. This opens up two problems: 1) The First Incarnation was killed by Ravel to see if her spell worked, not by Shadows; 2) Since no one had died in the Nameless One's place yet, there shouldn't be any Shadows coming after him. The first of these problems can be solved by saying that he was the first incarnation of the Nameless One to arise ''after'' Ravel killed him, but this still brings up the problem of having more that one Shadow after him (remember that the Good Incarnation says "Shadow''s''", not "''A'' Shadow".
** It's possible I'm remembering this wrong, but doesn't he tell you that shadows killed him before you can get him to reveal that he was the first? In which case, he was presumably just lying, not wanting to get into the fact that he is the original incarnation.
*** That does sound reasonable.
** He was, indeed, lying. Considering how easy it is to miss the conversation path that leads to him revealing himself it's easy to get confused over multiple replays of the game.
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{{reflist}}
[[Category:Games/Headscratchers]]
[[Category:Planescape Torment]]▼
[[Category:Headscratchers]]
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