Power Creep, Power Seep: Difference between revisions

m
Mass update links
m (categories and general cleanup)
m (Mass update links)
Line 1:
{{trope}}
{{quote|''"Superman, ''we'' are the greatest!"''|'''Muhammad Ali''', ''[[Superman (Comic Book)|Superman]] vs. Muhammad Ali''}}
 
A character who is designed in their own universe basically needs to be written to be effective against other characters featured in that universe. Generally, your main conflict won't be an eternal war between [[Crystal Dragon Jesus|Super Jesus]] and his nemesis [[Ridiculously Average Guy|Bob]].
Line 10:
If this happens often enough, it can create an inflation in [[Power Levels]] across the entire fictional universe, and can sometimes push characters into the B- or C-list, as they simply can't compete anymore.
 
Another way to get around the same problem is to create a [[Plot Tailored to Thethe Party]].
 
See also [[Re-Power]] and [[Strong Asas They Need to Be]]. Compare [[CCG Importance Dissonance]], [[PVP-Balanced]] and [[Popularity Power]]. [[Sister Trope]] to [[Story-Breaker Team-Up]].
 
'''Not to be confused''' with [[Power Creep]], which happens to Games when new additional content is added that over-powers the previous one.
Line 19:
 
== Anime & Manga ==
* From ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog The Movie]]'', Knuckles the Echidna. In his [[Sonic 3 and Knuckles (Video Game)|first game appearance]], Knuckles had pretty weak jump height, but could glide through the air. In this OVA, he can jump ridiculously high and hover in mid-air; at times he appears to be flying outright.
** Still not as hard to believe it as what he did in Sonic 3, in the game's intro Knuckles punched Super Sonic in the face, not only Sonic lost his Super form in just one hit, but the way it was presented made it look like Super Sonic is nothing against Knuckles. We can only take in mind that at the time SEGA didn't intended to make Super Sonic the Cosmic Being that he turned out to be after the franchise went 3D.
* A crossover between ''[[Fairy Tail]]'' and ''[[Rave Master]]'' handles this by setting up the characters to imply that it's taking place fairly early in both stories, meaning none of the characters are too particularly powerful when they start to fight.
Line 25:
 
== Collectible Card Games ==
* This trope was at least partially the downfall of the anime CCG ''Ani-Mayhem''. The base set used ''[[Ranma One Half]]'', ''[[Tenchi Muyo!]]'', ''[[Bubblegum Crisis]]'', and ''[[El Hazard]]''. So far so good. The first expansion set had ''[[Project a KoA-ko]]'', ''[[Dominion Tank Police]]'', ''[[Phantom Quest Corp]]'', and ''[[Armitage III]]''. No problem here. The second expansion set? '''''[[Dragonball Z]]'''''<ref>covering the Frieza Saga, with extra characters like Future Trunks</ref>. The sheer power imbalance between both heroes and villains made it so there was little to no point to using any of the other characters, since the effort it took to bring them up to ''DBZ'''s level could have been better spent making the ''DBZ'' characters even stronger.
 
 
Line 32:
** Most of Marvel's "Earth based" heroes tend to be a lot weaker than DC's, but Marvel's cosmic cast and pantheons tend to be stronger than DC's, even counting guys from the Vertigo line like the Endless.
** This is always a problem in Marvel vs. DC crossovers when it comes to [[Super Speed]] battles. Marvel speedsters rarely move much faster than the speed of sound, while DC speedsters are usually closer to the speed of light, a difference of six orders of magnitude (the difference between you and a jet is two orders of magnitude). Sometimes this difference is [[Hand Wave|ignored]], sometimes it's [[Lampshade Hanging|mocked]], and sometimes it's [[Justified Trope|justified]].
*** Two recent crossover battles shown between [[Quicksilver]] and [[The Flash]] were played for the jokes that they were. The only times Quicksilver was able to land a punch were when [[The Flash]] turned his back to help innocents and, in the later crossover, when [[The Flash]] encountered Quicksilver in the Marvel universe (which apparently has no Speed Force). Sadly, if they had just done the first fight a few years sooner, it would have been an even match (Wally's speed was dropped to Quicksilver level in the years immediately following ''[[Crisis Onon Infinite Earths]]'').
*** There was actually a [[Shout-Out]] to the enormous disparity in an issue of ''[[Quasar]]''. A cosmic entity had gathered Earth's super-speedsters for a race from Earth to the Moon. At the last minute, ''all'' the contestants got blown past by [[The Flash|an amnesiac man in a tattered red-and-yellow costume]]. (This was back when Barry Allen was still dead, after the ''[[Crisis Onon Infinite Earths]]''.)
** One notorious example of this happened in the Marvel versus DC crossover, where [[Popularity Power|based on a fan poll]], [[Wolverine]] beat [[Lobo]]. Wolverine had bone claws at the time, while Lobo is as powerful as Superman, this should have been impossible. The comic sidestepped the problems by [[Take Our Word for It|not showing the battle]] -- in fact the whole thing was less than a page, from the introduction of Lobo to Wolvie standing and dusting off his hands. And all the fighting happened ''behind a bar''. It was later [[Hand Wave|implied]] in Lobo's own comic that the Main Man was paid under the table to throw the fight.
* In one issue of ''Amazing Spider-Man'', [[Spider -Man (Comic Book)|Spider-Man]], who's strong (lifts ten tons) but not one of the big hitters of the [[Marvel Universe]], beat the ''cosmically'' powerful Firelord in a hand-to-hand duel. On comic boards this trope is often named Spider-man vs the Firelord.
** Then again, when [[Spider -Man]] fights [[Silver Surfer]], he tends to smack him around pretty well. He often fights beyond his limits. The same can be said for the likes of [[Wolverine]] or [[Captain America]] as well. Sometimes, [[Wolverine Publicity]] does that with characters who are popular but not very powerful.
* One cross-company crossover between [[Spider -Man (Comic Book)|Spider-Man]] and [[Superman (Comic Book)|Superman]] had [[Lex Luthor]] shoot Spidey with a "red-sun energy boost", making Big Blue vulnerable to his touch.
** This happens a lot to Spider-Man. In preparation for ''[[Civil War (Comic Book)|Civil War]]'', he had "''The Other''" story arc, which tied his powers to a mystical spider-totem. This gave him a major attribute boost and several new powers, ranging from enough speed and strength to catch bullets to spike weapons which protruded from his arms. {{spoiler|This was done so that when he became a fugitive at the end of ''Civil War'', he could feasibly fight off (and beat) more powerful heroes like Iron Man.}} Unfortunately, nobody bothered using Spider-Man's upgrades from "''The Other''" except [[Peter David]] so the storyline might as well not have happened. The only aspect of the story that anyone else bothered using was the Iron Spider costume.
** The follow up crossover with Superman and Spider-Man is more realistic. Superman brushes off Spider-Man's offers of assistance at first believing that Spidey would just get in the way. Spidey is about to leave also believing he wouldn't be any help to Superman till he remembers that Superman might be flying into a trap and follows after to warn him.
Line 46:
*** [[Worf Had the Flu|Superman was temporarily weakened in his own continuity at the time.]]
** ''Marvel vs. DC'' also had Storm besting [[Wonder Woman]]. Storm has a greater attack range, so this might have made sense if they hadn't actually shown her shrugging off a punch from Wonder Woman. (For reference, Storm's pretty toned for a being that's just one step above a baseline human, but Wonder Woman wasn't human to begin with.)
* [[Batman (Comic Book)|Batman]] has got to be the most notable example. He has appeared for decades simultaneously both in his own magazine, struggling against fairly normal muggers and crooks, and in ''[[Justice League of America]]'', battling cosmic foes like [[Darkseid]]. This has been dealt with in various ways over the years, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. The default [[Silver Age]] solution seemed to be using the Bat-Anti-Cosmically-Powered-Villain Spray, while the default [[Modern Age]] solution tends toward emphasizing his willpower and intelligence, often in a [[Mission Control]] role.
** In 2002, it was announced that there was a ''Batman Vs. Superman'' film in the works (like most Superman-related projects, it ultimately ended up in [[Development Hell]] and was abandoned), which provoked great uproar in the fan community about the inherently one-sided nature of such a conflict. Conan O'Brien put it best, saying "Superman is, well, ''Superman''. He can fly, lift cars, shoot lasers from his eyes, go back in time, all that. Batman... Batman works out a lot."
*** Though in that script, Batman used his [[Crazy Prepared]]-ness intelligently, with Kryptonite armor and arrows, and a sonic whistle to paralyze Superman due to the latter's super-hearing.
*** Though in the ''Batman: Hush'' comic books, Batman DOES wind up fighting the Man of Steel, who is under Poison Ivy's control due to kryptonite added to her mind-control lipstick. He still might have little chance in a straight fight, but in that story, he does manage to fight off Superman long enough to break him out of the trance. At one point, Batman states that he would have long been dead if Superman hadn't been resisting Ivy's control.
*** A similar thing happens in ''[[The Batman (Animation)|The Batman]]'', where Supes is again under mind control (this time by Ivy's Mind Control Spores laced with Kryptonite dust). Batman not only cheats, he tries using a chunk of Kryptonite stolen from Lex Luthor, and when ''that'' doesn't work, he evens the odds a little by breaking out his [[Powered Armor|Bat-Mecha]] and is ''still'' on the verge of losing, but Robin breaks Superman out of the trance.
*** Batman v. Superman again in Frank Miller's [[The Dark Knight Returns]]. Justified in that Superman had recently almost died and lampshaded by Batman testing him with a few missiles. Also, Batman uses kryptonite and power gloves and Gotham's entire electrical grid. And the fight's more or less a draw (though the bat would have won).
**** In the end, however, the success rate for Batman's [[Crazy Prepared]]-ness depends on a ''lot'' of good luck and calculations working out the way he planned it. And Superman is still a guy who can kill you by ''looking at you''. None of the explanations and scenarios laid out by any writer for a Batman victory will be a 100% convincing.
Line 63:
** Although, given that Nightwing is essentially Batman-in-waiting, this could be a case of Nightwing rising to the challenge rather than Deathstroke getting a demotion. It also helps that Nightwing is more familiar with Deathstroke than probably any other hero...
** Nightwing can fight Deathstroke to a standstill because, well, he's been fighting the guy since he was ''eighteen'', and he knows all of Deathstroke's weak spots, not the least of which are his children Joey (who was one of Nightwing's best friends) and Rose (who defected from her father's side because of Nightwing).
** Also, he's basically the evil Batman (to the point that one popular fan theory for his true nature in the ''[[Teen Titans (Animationanimation)|Teen Titans]]'' animated series was that Slade really ''was'' Batman, testing Robin.) With the wide variety of tools he uses, it's most likely that he simply comes prepared for whatever foe he's facing. Which means he ''should'' go after Nightwing when armed for the whole Justice League and kill bird-boy in two seconds flat, but... well, that's not how it works in comicland.
* This is actually done in-universe in [[Fables]] - when Frau Totenkinder faces Baba Yaga, the latter seems confident in her victory, because everybody knows her stories, so her [[Popularity Power]] is great. Frau Totenkinder, who is every witch from any classic fairy tale, politely reminds her, that her legend is most popular in Russia. And they are in America, where far more people heard story of Hansel and Gretel - Frau Totenkinder's story - than her's. In Russia Baba Yaga would have won, but in States she is outmatched.
 
Line 90:
 
== Tabletop Games ==
* The [[Old World of Darkness (Tabletop Game)|Old World of Darkness]] suffered dearly from this trope. ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade (Tabletop Game)|Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' establishes that vampires are in deep, deep trouble if they encounter werewolves. Guess what? Werewolves are playable (''[[Werewolf: The Apocalypse (Tabletop Game)|Werewolf: The Apocalypse]]''), and if the games ever cross over the vampires are risking [[Final Death]]. Crossovers were a chore to work at the best of times, as the races were on (sometimes radically) different power levels.
** The [[New World of Darkness (Tabletop Game)|New World of Darkness]] simplifies things to a great extent: every supernatural race possesses a "supernatural tolerance" statistic (Blood Potency, Primal Urge, Gnosis, Azoth, etc.), which provides universal resistance against supernatural attack. Power levels are more streamlined. While this means the werewolves are not nearly as powerful as they once were, given that they're supposed to be besieged on all sides by enemy spirits, it was that or make their adversaries nearly unstoppable (and they usually are anyway).
** Vampires also got the short end of the straw in the 1st edition of [[Old World of Darkness (Tabletop Game)|Old World of Darkness]], where - since Vampires were counted as not living - Wizards with low levels of Prime and Matter powers could attempt a simple spell to transform even the most powerful of vampires into a lawn chair (or any other non-living thing, but due to an announcement in the book, the [[Running Gag]] is lawn chair) without even giving the vampire a saving throw. This was quickly remedied in all later incarnations of World of Darkness.
*** The related cliche was having a mage turn a werewolf's skin to silver, effectively burning himself to death. The original World of Darkness was never meant for crossovers, and certainly wasn't even remotely balanced - in any given meeting of two supernatural species, SOMEONE was getting the short end of the stick. Ironically enough, many older players consider the newer, more generic, better balanced system to be worse simply because it's less realistic. Life really ''shouldn't'' be fair, especially when you're living in a [[Crapsack World]].
** As an amusing example of oWoD's dodgy crossovers and clashing mythologies, vampires, werewolves, Pooka changelings, and mages all had powers which could let them turn into wolves. So what happened if you put one of each on a stage to perform this trick in front of mortal witnesses? The vampire gets the expected mundane reaction, the werewolf drives witnesses into hallucinations and denial, the changeling leaves all but the least banal of viewers remembering it as a vague dream, and the mage explodes because the universe doesn't like people turning into wolves.
** In addition, the new system explains that Vampires, Mages and Werewolves have very different existences, so having them encounter each other, much less be in direct conflict, is supposed to happen only under very unusual circumstances. Sure, Werewolves can rip just about anything to shreds. But Vampires tend to be both very clever and ''very'' patient. Mages are often [[Crazy Prepared]] to the extreme (or can use their magic in such a subtle way as to appear they were already crazy prepared).
** People have also ran ''[[Exalted (Tabletop Game)|Exalted]]'' crossovers with oWoD. Solars can radiate sunlight, making for a [[Curb Stomp Battle]] with a vampire.
* Solars [[Curb Stomp Battle|Curb Stomp]] just about everything in their own setting too, given an equal amount of experience points. That's not a bug but a feature, since the default game is about playing [[A God Am I|a superhuman hero]] who is [[The Ace|invariably the best there is at what she does.]] However, there are many other playable character types in ''[[Exalted (Tabletop Game)|Exalted]]'', and the difficulty of having a mixed group of player characters without the Solars [[Incredibly Lame Pun|outshining]] everyone else is a cause of much aggravation among fans.
* The Palladium RPG ''[[Rifts (Tabletop Game)|Rifts]]'' was notorious for this. In the original book, Cyber-Knights (simply noble humans with cybernetic augmentations and the ability to create a moderately powerful blade of psychic energy) were respectable combatants, and the Glitter Boy was rightly feared as one of the most powerful war machines on the planet. By the time we get to the Phase World supplement, we get Cosmo-Knights, a playable class. These characters could fly through space at translight speed, were nearly invulnerable to non-kinetic energies (and very durable against kinetic ones), and could fire anti-starship level energy blasts.
** Those particular examples could be justified due to the differences in scale of the respective settings (Post-Apocalyptic North America vs. Intergalactic Space Opera). But then there's the case of the Cyber-Knights' reintroduction in their own self-titled book, where to keep up with the stuff introduced between the main book and then, Cyber-Knights got bumped to nearly [[Star Wars|Jedi]]-like levels.
* Endemic in ''[[Star Wars]] Miniatures'', since a player can set any faction from any era against any other and end up more or less balanced, depending solely on your team selection. So weapons were about as effective 4,000 years apart.
* The ''[[Rogue Trader]]'' and ''[[Deathwatch (Tabletop Gamegame)|Deathwatch]]'' role-playing games are based on the same rules as those of ''[[Dark Heresy]]'', and there are rules for including characters from ''Dark Heresy'' in both systems. In the case of ''Rogue Trader'', this involves boosting the characters from ''Dark Heresy'' to about 1/3rd of their maximum obtainable power in their home rules system. In the case of ''Death Watch'', it involves boosting said characters to a level more powerful than the core ''Dark Heresy'' ruleset has rules for, and using the ''Ascension'' splatbook. In both cases the ''Dark Heresy'' characters are still overall weaker, but far more customizable and specialized.
** Essentially, their stats are lower, true, but they tend to have far, far more raw skill and talent due to ''[[Dark Heresy]]''s very cheap skills and ''Ascension''s cheap paragon talents/skills (essentially a collection of related skills purchased as a package that costs less than the skills combined). And that doesn't count the raw level of influence that these characters can have, which is hard to really quantify. And that doesn't count the Ascended Psychic Powers, which all ''Ascension'' classes can get with the right talents... such as being able to control time, or creating a completely and utterly impenetrable barrier able to withstand all types of damage and prevent all creatures from going through it. Even more mundane ones such as [[Exactly What It Says Onon the Tin|bloodboil]] or the army-destroying Inferno, or being able to utterly crush and banish daemons with a thought. Likely only the Grey Knights in Daemonhunters have more powerful psychic powers.
 
 
== Video Games ==
* Happens in crossover titles in video games as well, as evidenced in [[Capcom vs. Whatever|Capcom crossover games]]. This is something of a necessity; how else could you expect [[Street Fighter|Dan Hibiki or Sakura]] to fight, say, the [[Incredible Hulk (Comic Book)|Hulk]] or [[Fantastic Four (Comic Book)|Dr. Doom]] without having a serious upgrade in strength? (Dan, of course, doesn't have a chance even with the upgrade, but he's a [[Joke Character]] anyway.) The concept was (lovingly) mocked in a segment on [[X -Play]] where Blair Butler took a look back at the ''[[Marvel vs. Capcom]]'' series, noting in each game the number of fighters, adding that "none of them would stand a chance against [[The Hulk]]"; while not completely true, it gets the point across.
** It's even worse in the earlier games in the series, where freakin' ''Apocalypse'' and ''Onslaught'' were the final bosses, and yet the likes of Chun Li and Ryu were able to take them down.
** Of course, ''[[Marvel vs. Capcom 3]]'' ups the ante further with the Final Boss being ''[[Galactus]]''.
Line 116:
*** Then, there's the inclusion of [[Dimension Lord|Dormammu]], [[Eldritch Abomination|Shuma-Gorath]], and the like as playable characters. In their own continuities, they could just blink once and delete all of their opponents from existence. Which makes it kinda of funny when you see humans with no superpowers like Chris Redfield or Hawkeye [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|beat the snot out of an ultra-powerful, reality-warping god]].
*** [[Ace Attorney|Phoenix Wright]] is now in the games. His ultimate attack? [[What Do You Mean It's Not Awesome?|"The real culprit...IS YOU!"]] In other words, he can defeat a world-destroying horror ''by providing evidence of guilt and giving it the pointer finger!''
** The presence of Gold Lightan and the PTX-40A Vital Suit from ''[[Lost Planet]]'' in ''[[Tatsunokovs Capcom (Video Game)|Tatsunokovs Capcom]]'' (both of whom are utterly massive) asked for a massive power creep to [[Street Fighter|Alex]] (who is a grappler) as performing the Hyper Bomb on them can be translated as ''grabbing a giant robot's leg and effortlessly slamming him into the ground, including with an airborne drop''. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3J-kN2JIYM It has to be seen to be believed].
*** It has to be expected. The [[Final Boss]] is {{spoiler|Yami, the God of Darkness}}, the [[Big Bad]] [[Final Boss]] of ''[[Okami]]''.
*** Also done to especially, especially, especially [[Dead Rising|Frank West]]. Whereas Alex did get the power creep, he could do that stuff against everybody, from his series or not. Frank, on the other hand, disregarding a few ''Street Fighter'' moves and [[Mega Man X|a working Mega Buster]], really is [[Muggle|just a regular human]]. In ''Tatsunoko vs. Capcom'', however, he can throw said giants to the other side of the screen, shoot them in to the sky by way of hitting them with a [[Batter Up|baseball]], and can survive the stronger hits of the game, most of which, in [[Real Life]], would kill us normies. And in ''Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3'', his arsenal of [[Improvised Weapon|improvised weaponry]] (no Mega Buster and shooting people into the sky here) is more than a match for the superpowered beings of the Marvel Universe, and he can still tank hits.
*** [[Tekkaman Blade (Anime)|Tekkaman Blade]] gets the short end of the trope. A guy who in his own series tanked a ''nuke''. Note that while this feat is done at the beggining of the series before he even get numerous amount of power ups and his [[Super Mode]].
* The ''[[Final Fight]]'' characters such as Cody, Guy and Mai are noticeably more powerful when they appear in ''[[Street Fighter]]'' games than their own games. Of course if the characters had their ''Street Fighter'' abilities in the ''Final Fight'' series, the games would be pretty boring.
* The ''[[Alien vs. Predator]]'' games -- as with every other kind of media -- are primes examples of this trope. Depending on the game and genre, the abilities of the Aliens and Predators can be vastly different.
Line 128:
** For the sake of balance, player-controlled humans in the 2010 game can fight off both Aliens ''and'' Predators in hand-to-hand combat long enough to set them up for a volley of pulse rifle fire.
*** Another human example: the flamethrower. In the 2001 game, it was incredibly effective against Aliens. In the 1999 and 2010 games, it makes them explode -- ''eventually''. Until then, the Alien will continue trying to kill you -- ''[[Infernal Retaliation|while on fire.]]''
* Another crossover title example is ''[[Jump Super Stars]]'' and its sequel. Massive quantities of power nerfing and boosting must have happened for characters like [[Kochikame|Ryotsu]], a regular human police officer, to fare well against monsters like [[Dragonball Z|Goku]], [[Saint Seiya|Seiya]], [[Bleach|Ichigo]], [[One Piece|Luffy]] and [[Naruto]] just to name a few, but in one way or another all of them are fighters (or are capable of fighting) in their respective universes. The worst offenders worth mentioning are the supporting characters, mainly composed of comical/normal characters which in their universes are not related to fighting at all. These are sports- or romance-themed, so it's kind of insane seeing [[Ichigo One Hundred Percent100%|cute girls tripping/falling over]] the aforementioned monsters and hurting them. It reaches plain unfair levels when some are UNBLOCKABLE and hard to dodge.
* Almost any video game where Superman is a playable character, especially fighting games and beat'em ups, in which the normally invulnerable Man of Steel can be killed by the first mook on the first level. ''[[Justice League]] Heroes'' at least ''started'' the game with killer robots, and moved up from there.
** ''JL Heroes'' at least [[Lampshaded]] it a bit with Supes' block animation. He sticks out his ''chest'' when you hit the button, and of course, enemy attacks do no damage as long as you hold it down.
** The game based on ''Superman Returns'' actually gave Superman the kind of power seen in comics; he was functionally unkillable, it was ''the city'' that had the health meter you had to keep track of.
*** ''Superman: Shadow of Apokalips'' was very similar. You ''could'' be killed, but enemies did relatively little damage and you regenerated health constantly. But the moment a civilian died, you lost the level. In addition, many levels were based around preventing a disaster (sabotaged dam, volcano eruption, etc.), so that the risk from enemies was that they would slow you down rather than any risk that they would kill you.
** ''[[Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe (Video Game)|Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe]]'' is interesting about this, because it brings up the question of who is really getting the creeps and seeps respectively, since there's Superman on the DC side, a god (Raiden) and a supernatural undead (Scorpion) on the ''[[Mortal Kombat]]'' side, and a range of less powerful superheroes and flat-out humans scattered across both. The final explanation is that the merging of the two universes causes powers to fluctuate, strengthening some and weakening others. It gets lampshaded when, after [[The Joker]] defeats Sonya, Deathstroke asks in bewilderment, "Since when can ''you'' beat anybody?!" (The Joker promptly trashes him afterwards and then decides to use his newfound strength to defeat Batman. He does but then [[Villain Ball|forgot]] the Bat's [[Crazy Prepared|defining characteristic]] and got knocked out by a taser.)
*** As for Superman, remember that most of the ''Mortal Kombat'' cast are either inherently or powered by or using magic - and Superman is basically a mundane when it comes to magic (which he remarks after receiving a ''normal kick'' from Scorpion in the story). Only Sonya Blade, Kano and Jax as well as the other DC characters barring [[Wonder Woman]] and [[Shazam|Captain Marvel]] are non-magical, so only they really need the [[Hand Wave]] above to face off effectively against the Man of Steel.
* The ''[[Super Robot Wars]]'' games at least partially do this out of necessity. Enemies that can survive an attack from the [[Wave Motion Gun|planet-busting]] [[Space Runaway Ideon|Ideon]] can die to a [[Macross Missile Massacre|missile barrage]] from a squad of [[Super Dimension Fortress Macross|Valkyries]].
** A good example comes from [[Super Robot Wars Judgment]] in term of the casts. On one end, you got things like [[Gundam Seed]], [[Blue Comet SPT Layzner]], [[Brain Powered]], and [[Martian Sucessor Nadesico]]. On the other side, you got things like [[Mazinkaiser]], [[Zeorymer]], and [[Tekkaman Blade]](yes, this guy again). The latter part of the cast makes the infamous scene from [[Gundam Seed]] {{spoiler|where Mwu is killed}} pretty awkward because they can simply tank the attack and really likely to survive. And even in the midst of battle, both Zeorymer and Blade has more than enough speed to arrive on time.
** ''[[Another CenturysCentury's Episode]] 3'' takes a nerf bat to the Shin Getter Robo, again out of pure necessity. However, it's still pretty well in line with how ''SRW'' depicts Super Robots compared to Reals (namely, [[Mighty Glacier|big and slow, but heavily armored and super-strong]]). On the other hand, they left the [[Overman King Gainer]] units alone.
** Many Banpresto's [[Crossover]] games also qualifies: The ''[[QueensQueen's Blade|Spiral Chaos games]]'' gives [[Tekken|Lily]], who is the only character who fights ''barehanded'', moves that seems taken off more from ''[[Fist of the North Star]]'' than ''Tekken''. Justified, since it's the only explanation how she's able to fight against many of the [[QueensQueen's Blade]]'s cast, who uses swords or medieval weapons, or against superpowered beings like [[Guilty Gear|Dizzy]] or people who use guns like [[Blaz Blue|Noel Vermillion]].
*** And even in the case of both Dizzy and Noel, it could be [[Hand Wave|handwaved]] that they are trying to avoid using their full power (Dizzy) or in Noel's case, {{spoiler|she's using her humanoid form and not her Mu-12 persona.}}
* Many of the Disney characters suddenly developed [[Implausible Fencing Powers]], magic, or [[I Know Karate|Kung Fu]] of some sort to put them on equal combat ground with the main characters of ''[[Kingdom Hearts]]''. It's slightly jarring (and very awesome) to see Mickey Mouse with a Yoda-like fighting ability while retaining the personality he's had for the the past 50 or 60 years.
Line 144:
* ''[[Super Smash Bros]].'' is an example of most characters in the crossover having their power being taken up several notches. Except for Mewtwo, who is substantially weakened. This is justified in that the characters are supposed to be trophies and not the ''actual'' characters.
** One of the examples of this is Rayquaza, one of the [[Olympus Mons|most powerful]] [[Pokémon]] in the series, being beaten by [[Donkey Kong Country|a monkey with a pop-gun]].
** [[Fire Emblem Tellius (Video Game)|Ike]] too. His ''Path of Radiance'' incarnation can literally kill a small army on his own out of pure unrealistic combat skill. In ''Brawl'', an anorexic plumber with a Tennis racket is too much for him (and everyone else).
** Also Ganondorf, whose sorcery was replaced with punches and kicks. Powerful punches and kicks, sure, but nothing like what he demonstrated in the ''[[The Legend of Zelda (Franchise)|The Legend of Zelda]]'' series. Worse, one of his taunts in ''Brawl'' involves him pulling out a cool-looking sword, only to promptly put it away. The official site tries to [[Justified Trope|justify]] this by saying that Ganondorf's so confident in his hand-to-hand abilities, he believes he doesn't need the sword. This justification is promptly beaten to death when the King of Evil gets beaten by Jigglypuff. Another taunt, appearing in both ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', has his float in the air for a few seconds, but never in his off-stage recovery does this happen.
** It isn't just power levels that changes, but size as well, with [[Kirby]] and [[Pikmin|Olimar]] (eight inches tall and ''the size of a fifty-cent piece'' respectively) increased in size. [[Metroid|Ridley]] and [[Super Mario|Bowser]] in particular have been resized substantially from some of their original appearances.
*** A lot of attention to detail went into the character's sizes. The characters in ''Smash Bros.'' are supposed to be figurines of the actual characters ranging in size from about 3-8 inches tall. Most of the characters stay roughly in the same scale of about one foot to one inch, except where it would make the character so large or small that they would be unplayable (Olimar, Kirby). This is especially noticeable in ''Brawl'''s Pikmin stage, Distant Planet, in which the stage is on a 1:1 scale with the ''Pikmin'' world, with the inches-tall characters towering over the minuscule Onions and bouncing on the leaves.
Line 155:
** Think about how chaotic battles would be if the [[Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors|type effectiveness system]] from the ''[[Pokémon]]'' games where in the ''Smash Bros.'' series. For some examples, Charizard would "[[Non-Lethal KO|faint]]" the moment he falls into a body of water, Wario's Bite wouldn't cause any damage to Lucario at all, and Jigglypuff would cower in fear from the large assortment of punches, kicks, and throws from the other characters. Luckily for the Pokémon (and their opponents, in some cases), the game mechanics aren't so strict.
*** Actually, it ''is'' used for the Pokemon Trainer. Its not at all noticeable with Squirtle (are there even any Grass-like attacks in that game...?) and Charizard (only three water-based attacks in the game, two of them being strictly knockback, the other one exclusive to Blue Pikmin), but it stands out with Ivysaur since there are a ''fuckton'' of fire attacks in the game! It doesn't help that Ivysaur is [[Difficult but Awesome]] as it is...
* In the [[Nasuverse]], supposedly even the strongest of the Hero Servants from ''[[Fate/stay Stay Nightnight]]'' are just "1/4th of the power of the vampire Arcueid" from ''[[Tsukihime]]'', according to the writers. However, in the fan [[Crossover]] ''[[Battle Moon Wars]]'', the Servant Saber gets paired with the maid Kohaku, who proceeds to pump Saber up with all kinds of beneficial <s>drugs</s> power-ups to equalize things. This is the only one that's really explained however; Hisui the maid can match vampires as well for some reason.
** Then there's the fact that [[Word of God]] states that any non-[[Our Vampires Are Different|dead apostle]] ''Tsukihime'' character would be absolutely obliterated by a Servant. (Except for Aoko.) And even then, the stronger ones, such as Saber, could take down most of them. The villains at least get their power boosts explained...
*** It should be pointed out that when this is against an average Servant with an average noble phantasm. For example, [[Word of God]] also stated that Servant Caster could obliterate Aoko. Apparently, ancient witch from the era of gods > sorcery.
*** Said power boost is explained in ''[[Melty Blood]]'' itself; for some reason the presence of the Tatari/White Len projections is inducing powerups in the lesser characters such as the maids and Miyako. ''Why'' [[Voodoo Shark|isn't exactly clear.]] In fact, in the [[Manga]], Shiki uses his full killing intent on the maids by accident. His first shock is that his instincts triggered him to do so; his second was that they were fine after.
* Any ''[[DragonballDragon Ball]]'' video game that features Yajirobe as a non-[[Joke Character]] takes this trope to hilarious excess. He could neither fly nor use [[Ki Attacks]] in the show, but in at least one game this is compensated by throwing rocks [[Hyperspace Arsenal|from nowhere]] and flying by ''waving his legs around like he's paddling through water''. He also gets [[Sword Beam|Sword Beams]] in some games.
** Other non-flight and/or non-ki attack characters in ''[[Dragonball Z]]: Budokai Tenkaichi'' do this as well, depends of the game. In the first one, everyone flies. in the second one, people who can't fly don't and instead fall down like rocks. In the third game they instead fall down slowly (Which is actually closer to in-series behavior), air jump (This isn't) and you can give them a Potara that allows flying.
** And in a few where Mister Satan/Hercule makes an appearance, he has a jetpack and explosives.
* In ''[[Little Big Planet]]'''s ''[[Metal Gear]] Solid'' themed expansion pack, Liquid Ocelot's plan is to {{spoiler|flood LBP with pointless trophy levels so that he can be loved}}, and the Metal Gear itself is essentially beaten by a Sackboy with a paintball gun.
* [[Danny Phantom]] always gets the short end of the stick in in the ''[[Nicktoons Unite!]]'' series. ''Nicktoons Unite'' gets around this with a game-long [[Plot Tailored to Thethe Party]] (and even then he had to gain his abilities back), but then came ''Battle for Volcano Island'', where he's stuck to throwing punches and shooting energy blasts. This got even worse in ''Attack of the Toybots'' which, outside of his Master Model areas, limits him to punching and using a goo gun (but so does everyone else) to the point that freaking ''[[Rocko's Modern Life|Rocko]]'' can do as much damage as him. (Though at least that game justifies his weakness: [[Jimmy Neutron|Calamitous]] somehow managed to neutralise his ghost powers while leeching energy off the Ghost Zone to power his game-long [[Eternal Engine]].) And then in ''Globs of Doom'', he can generate temporary duplicates of himself... via gadgetry from the [[Hub Level]], which is in the universe of Volcano Island. (Meanwhile, [[Invader Zim|Dib]] developed implausible punching skills.)
* ''Dengeki Gakuen RPG: Cross of Venus'', being a crossover [[Action RPG]], delivers a nerf bat to everyone and everything from ''[[Shakugan no Shana]]'', ''[[To Aru Majutsu no Index]]'' and ''[[Asura Cryin]]''' as well as to that good ol' psycho angel [[Bludgeoning Angel Dokurochan (Light Novel)Dokuro-chan|Dokuro-chan]], and a buffing to just about everything pertaining to ''[[Toradora (Light Novel)|Toradora!]]'' (Yes, even Inko, who is a mook) and ''[[Kino's Journey]]''. And most of the bosses are [[Evil Knockoff|Evil Knockoffs]] of various characters, explaining their weakness (or in a few cases, strength) compared to the people they replicate.
** At the same time though, it also averts power creeping with three plot characters: Index, [[Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu|Haruka]] and [[Asura Cryin|Misao]] aren't fighters in their canon and so they are not playable characters despite being in your party; instead, they are support characters who hold the cards usable in battle. They don't even have any in-battle sprites. (And hey, it fits Index's canon role.)
* One example done due to the affected person being an [[Early-Bird Cameo]] [[Guest Fighter]]: Just from playing ''[[Soul Series|Soulcalibur IV]]'' back at its time of release, few would have guessed that [[The Force Unleashed|Galen Marek]] is a [[Person of Mass Destruction]] in his own universe.
Line 173:
** Then again, justified by the existence of the spellcard system, which forbids them from using their true powers and instead forces them to rely on lesser abilities, balanced against each other. There's still a difference, but with good enough tactics it is possible for weaker characters to win (as evidenced in Imperishable Night, since protagonists are equivalent to level 4 bosses, and they do take down level 6 bosses regularly).
** Cirno's case is [[Fridge Brilliance]] on its own. She controls coldness and we first met her at the Misty Lake as a stage 2 boss and later in a winter land as a stage 1 midboss even. The misty lake is cold, winter wonderland is even colder. Later we fight her in places like a forest, a sunny mountain and a NUCLEAR FUSION REACTOR, all places much warmer. Her [[Power Level]] is directly proportional to the warmth around her and besides that she also had some years time to train her abilities.
* While one could see ''[[Cardcaptor Sakura (Manga)|Cardcaptor Sakura]]'''s eponymous character matching the other mages in ''[[Magical Battle Arena]]'' power-wise, it's a little harder to imagine her being able to take hits as well [[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha|as renowned members of a multi-dimension spanning police force]] or [[Slayers|veteran adventurers of a fantasy world]] considering how she kinda has the durablity of an ordinary elementary school student.
** She is the most powerful mage of her world, though... ''after'' Clow Reed cuts his magic in half through reincarnation tricks. And given recent developments in ''{{spoiler|[[Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle]]}}'', that's saying a ''hell'' of a lot.
** And taking in consideration the untapped potential of the spells that she carries with her. Sure, she can't match the raw power of a "befriending" blast or cast the rage of demons. But can, for example: {{spoiler|[[Elemental Powers|Master the elements]], [[Barrier Warrior|create nigh-impenetrable barriers]] [[Power Nullifier|also capable of]] [[Anti-Magic|dispelling functional magic and seals]], [[Dreaming of Things to Come|dreamseeing]], [[Super Speed|cast superspeed]], [[Super Strength|strength]], [[I Know Karate|fighting skills]], [[Absurdly Sharp Blade|a sword that can cut almost everything]], [[Reality Warper|alter reality]] and wipe things out of existence ....and that's just the tip of the iceberg}} she doesn't attack on the same pattern as the other Magical girls but has an unmatched versatility and a good level of control (just remember, {{spoiler|she stops a snowstorm and safely defrosts a small city within a matter of seconds, minutes perhaps}}).
* In ''[[Spider -Man: Shattered Dimensions]]'', Amazing Spider-Man takes out [[The Juggernaut]] in a fistfight. It's [[Handwaved]] by suggesting that {{spoiler|the power of the [[MacGuffin|Tablet Fragment]] is messing with Juggy's Gem of Cyttorak-given power.}}
* Various characters in the ''[[Mario and Sonic At The Olympic Games (Video Game)|Mario and Sonic At The Olympic Games]]'' series. For example, in his main series, [[Sonic the Hedgehog]] is referred to as "the world's fastest supersonic hedgehog", capable of running above the speed of sound without breaking a sweat. In the Olympic Games series, though he is still one of the fastest characters in terms of top speed, his other attributes are reduced to better balance him with the other characters.
* The ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' spin-offs have this a lot. In the main series, Yoshi can only run faster than Luigi when someone is riding him. If not, he's just as fast as Mario, which is still [[Super Speed]], but not as fast as Luigi. Mario, in the main series, is perfectly capable of lifting a castle and throwing it to the side, but is the [[Jack of All Stats]] in the spin-offs.
* ''[[Defense of the Ancients]]'' does this with a lot of the crossover heroes. One of the most notable examples, [[Slayers|Lina Inverse]], can ''unmake creation'' with her Laguna Blade, which only does 1250 damage in-game. (Which, to be fair, is ''a lot of damage''.)
* In ''[[Asura's Wrath]]'', one DLC has Asura facing off against ''[[Street Fighter]]'''s very own Ryu and Akuma {{spoiler|and their respective [[Super-Powered Evil Side]] Evil Ryu and Oni}}. It's a pretty cool idea, except for the fact that, in his own game, Asura is so overwhemlingly powerful that's he's up there with [[Capcom]] characters like those of the ''[[Darkstalkers (Video Game)|Darkstalkers]]'' series or the ''[[Okami]]'' series as one of the strongest characters made with Capcom's name attached to it.
** In said DLC Ryu survives being punched all the way to the moon from Earth, Evil Ryu moves a mountain sized landmass {{spoiler|and the battle with Akuma/Oni destroys the moon!}}
* ''[[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha As Portable (Video Game)|Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha As Portable]]: The Gears of Destiny'' threw in various justifications to explain why characters from different currently running installments of the franchise have roughly the same power levels when they shouldn't. Specifically, the [[Time Travel]] caused a malfunction on [[Nanoha Force|Thoma's]] Tome of the Silver Cross to explain why he can't just [[Anti-Magic]] his way through the unprepared cast, [[Nanoha Vivid|Vivio and Einhart]] are being greatly assisted by their [[Amplifier Artifact|Devices]] to explain why they could fly here when they couldn't in their series, and [[Nanoha As|Reinforce Eins]] is [[Your Days Are Numbered|slowly dying]] by this point to explain the [[Nerf|nerfing]] she got in the game.
* In the third ''[[Warriors Orochi]]'' game, Ryu Hayabusa of ''[[Ninja Gaiden]]'' joins the cast in their quest to defeat the Hydra. He accompanies them as they travel through different moments in time when the Hydra strike desperately trying to discover a way to beat the seemingly unstoppable monster. Thing is though Ryu in his own game series has fought and beaten numerous giant abominations all by himself and the Hydra really shouldn't have been that big a deal for him to handle by his lonesome.
 
 
== Web Original ==
* The inevitable fate of Always-Powerful-On-His-Own-But-Gets-His-Ass-Kicked-In-Crowd-Scenes Boy of the [[Legion of Net .Heroes]].
 
 
Line 203:
** In all honesty, they had to. Liquidator's very nature makes him [[Nigh Invulnerable]], barring having his oxygen and hydrogen atoms being separated. And after someone that strong has been defeated once, you'll never see him as the super-being he was before.
*** The lowered powers also dodge a very pesky piece of [[Fridge Logic]], namely that Liquidator could have just boiled Darkwing alive by heating the 70% water content of his body otherwise. Then you wouldn't have much of a show, at least not one Disney would have ever allowed for an afternoon kids' cartoon.
* In a crossover between the '90s ''[[Spider -Man]]'' cartoon and ''[[X -Men]]'' cartoon, this is highlighted in a scene where Spidey winds up fighting Danger Room Sentinels.
{{quote| '''Storm:''' Power of Lightning, strike again!<br />
'''Spider-Man:''' Power of Webshooters, gets real sticky? }}