Redemption Demotion: Difference between revisions

* In ''[[Heroes of Might and Magic]] V'' an infernal general Agrael in the end of his campaign decides that he had enough of his demonic masters, bails and switches to being a Warlock (well, the best he could get in his condition and he turns out quite a nice guy for a Dark Elf). Naturally, he loses all his abilities, even not demon-related, and levels of experience in the process and has to start evolving from scratch. Explained in-story as the effect of the ritual that purified him of demon taint.

** The same happens earlier, at the start of his own campaign: formerly a formidable hero in Isabel's campaign, he is suddenly brought down to level 1. There is no story justification here.

* Particularly egregious example: Magus in ''[[Chrono Trigger]]'' was an incredibly badass boss, but when he joins you, he has significantly less HP (going from 6666 to ''at most'' 999), and he has to relearn all but three of his spells. This is [[Justified Trope|explained]] by having his powers weakened by a Masamune beating and drained by [[Big Bad|Lavos]], while the discrepancy in the stats are explained by simple game mechanics and ratios: [[Health Damage Asymmetry|enemies and bosses have more HP, but the main characters do more damage]].

* Exception: The ''[[Super Robot Wars]]'' games occasionally reward the player for superior performance (or just satisfying extremely obscure requirements) with a playable boss character who retains his or her boss abilities and stats. Notable examples are Neo Granzon in ''[[Super Robot Wars Gaiden]]'', the Astranagant in ''[[Super Robot Wars Alpha]]'' and Nashim Gun-Eden in ''Alpha 3'', all of which are at least an order of magnitude harder to kill than any other unit in the player's army.

** Also averted in ''[[Symphony of the Night]]'' with Richter. Like Albus in Ecclesia, when you unlock his mode, he is a killing machine that breezes through the game at [[Speed Run|high speed]], with as much or more power than he displays when you fight him in the normal game.

* Partial exception: ''Destiny of an Emperor'' allows the player to recruit bosses at their full strength. However, since the main PCs gain soldiers (the game's equivalent of HP) over the course of the game and the bosses (and less important allies) don't, the bosses-turned-allies eventually become worthless. Except Zhou Yu.

* Kanon in ''[[Wild Arms 2]]'' goes from being an extremely dangerous recurring boss to one of your weaker party members when she switches sides. There is no explanation for this whatsoever.

** Bullshit, the last time you fight her, it's shown to have taken a heavy toll on her artificial body. Right after that, your first taste of her as an ally is in a fight against Judecca, one of the [[Quirky Miniboss Squad]] to the [[Big Bad]], who is a tough fight even for the WHOLE TEAM when you fight him later. Kanon barely survives the fight against him. She thus pushed herself over her limits twiceover in a VERY short amount of time, and Marivel (who was busy trying to fix her before Judecca's attack) even notes the busted circuitry. Kanon noticed she had grown weaker, herself. ALL Of Kanon's abilities can be obtained with <s>proper [[Level Grinding]]</s> a [[Luck-Based Mission]].

** She's the fastest character in the team and JUST as strong as Brad, the teams tank. Brad only stay useful at that point because of his dual-ARM limit break.

*** And, ya know, his [[Made of Iron|oodles and oodles of hit points]]. Kanon is only useful later because she has a flat damage output that rivals Ashley's.

* Averted with ''[[Final Fantasy Tactics]]''. The game features two [[Heel Face Turn|Heel Face Turns]], Marach and Meliadoul. Meliadoul joins your party late in the game, is appropriately-leveled, has most of her base job techniques already learned, and is equipped with some rather powerful items such as the Save the Queen knight sword. Marach on the other hand was just as crappy as a villain as he is as a hero.

** The inverse also happens. Delita, Argath, and Gafgarion get Betrayal Promotions and become more powerful after they [[Face Heel Turn]], Delita especially.

*** The fighting game ''Immaterial and Missing Power'', however, plays this trope straight for any character you have to unlock, as most of the challenge in the single-player story mode is learning how to dodge and shut down the various unlimited-duration, amped-up spell cards the AI characters invoke and spam between bouts of regular fighting.

* In ''[[Persona 4]]'', Personas are created out of [[The Heartless|Shadows]] when the person in question accepts their "true self". While the transformation makes the spiritual entity loyal and controllable, it also decreases their stamina at least a hundredfold, eliminates all their cool attacks, reduces them in physical size, ''and'' decreases their attack power. This is justified by Teddie's explanation that a strong-willed Shadow draws others to it to form a big mass of Shadows, and they make up the form you fight in the boss battle. So you're really fighting several Shadows combined in the boss battle, whereas when the character gets his Persona, it's only made up of a single Shadow.

* While taming in ''[[World of Warcraft]]'' is not exactly a [[Heel Face Turn]], upon becoming a hunter pet, the tamed beast immediately shrinks in size and loses any special abilities it had, reverting to the generic name (e.g. "Cat") and generic abilities of its species. At least it retains its appearance, prompting hunters to search the wilderness for more unique-looking mobs.

** This actually doesn't count--while the pet may lose any special skills and their name, their actual ''stats'' go through the roof, not to mention their level if you went back to an old zone for one.

== [[Western Animation]] ==

* Zuko lampshades this in ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'' when he joins the Gaang and briefly loses his Firebending, which he attributes to his lack of inner drive, which was previously capturing Aang, and general rage (he eventually improves over the course of the episode).

* Scavenger in ''[[Transformers Armada]]'' was initially a quite a big threat, until he became an Autobot and started taking a lot of naps.

* Exception: Dinobot of ''[[Transformers]]: [[Beast Wars]]'' started as a bad guy Predacon, but joined the Maximal good guys in the second episode. As a villain he was good but not overwhelmingly powerful, and after joining the Maximals he remained one of their most effective warriors up until his [[Heroic Sacrifice|death]]. And he died fighting against every Predacon warrior in the series at that point in rapid succession, to boot!