39,327
edits
Star Wars/Fridge: Difference between revisions
m
Mass update links
prefix>Import Bot (Import from TV Tropes TVT:Fridge.StarWars 2012-07-01, editor history TVTH:Fridge.StarWars, CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported license) |
m (Mass update links) |
||
Line 7:
*** From this perspective you can thank Obi Wan for all this, since he allowed the Organa family to adopt Leia and no doubt raise her into the tough-as-nails princess she is.
*** You guys are failing to understand what the definition of 'heroic' is. It definitely isn't some action by the character that indirectly caused a chain of events leading to victory decades later. 'Heroic' is most easily defined by accomplishing incredible feats with great courage in the face of impossible odds, fatal dangers, or horrifying terrors. While Obi-Wan for example of course is a hero, he was not the hero responsible for victory in a New Hope (if we insist on identifying on key hero). By this definition it could only be Leia or Luke.
**** Exactly, by the logic of whoever started this, the heroes that [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|made things worse in the long run]] should be considered a villain.
*** [[Running Gag|From that perspective]], the real hero of the OT doesn't even appear in it, being Qui-Gonn Jinn, without whom Obi-Wan would not have been the man he was. Although one could argue that ''this'' means the true hero is Yoda, for training Count Dooku who trained Qui-Gonn... oh dear.
**** except that the OT doesn't really have a protagonist by the definition of the word.
Line 67:
*** It really did at that: people hate Jar-Jar for being a [[The Scrappy|a scrappy]] klutz used to deliver unfunny comic relief and for the unfortunate implications of his accent, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that his [[F Xs]] were poor, or that he wasn't convincing when he interacted with the non-CG characters.
** I always took Jar Jar as a metaphor for what the prequels are about. In Phantom Menace he is comedy relief mostly, showing that despite what is going on this is a rather good time, people are happy and able to live. In Attack of the Clones he grows out of it a little, become more responsible, mirroring what is happening in the galaxy. And by Revenge when everything has gone to crap, Jar Jar is no longer comedy relief at all.
** In an early interview with the "actor" playing Jar Jar Binks, the actor mentioned that he had Jamaican relatives and was having fun doing a lighthearted parody of them as his inspiration for the character. Is it racist [[N
*** And who would expect a small town boy like George Lucas to recognize the [[Unfortunate Implications]] of it?
* At first I thought the midichlorians in ''[[Star Wars]]'' was a stupid way to explain away the Force. But then I realized that ''[[Star Wars]]'' is a combination of science fiction and fantasy, with your wizards flying in starships and whatnot. So, the magic of the Force having scientific roots is very fitting, and it explains why everybody in the [[Star Wars]] universe doesn't use the Force, because they can't. Even then, the Force is not generated by the midichlorians, the Force is still that mystical energy that surrounds and binds us, but the best way for humans to use it is to quiet your mind and listen to your midichlorians, who just happen to be the best conductors of the energetic Force. -[[washington 213]]
Line 139:
**** Overlooking some of the dialogue/plot issues the prequels had in some places, I've always thought Padme was a great foil to Anakin. He was a man who couldn't let go of his personal attachments for the sake of the higher cause; she was a woman who had sacrificed so much of herself for the greater good that she hardly had anything personal to speak of. She was always strong in her moral convictions, but Anakin's passionate endeavor hit her right where she was weakest.
* I was pondering why the robots in the ''Star Wars'' series are all called "droids"; most of them are about as far from traditional androids as you can get. And then it hit me: "an" also means "opposite of", so the opposite of an android would be, logically, a "droid"! The genuinely humanoid ones like C3PO are noticeably rare and probably a more recent invention than the other types, by sheer virtue of their complexity. OK, so Anakin was able to create one from scratch, but he's a freaking genius. That was kind of the point.
** Saying Anakin built 3PO from scratch is a bit of a stretch. We know from the films there are other droids like him in existence (several show in the original trilogy and a couple more in the prequels). It's more likely Anakin found the pieces of several junked units and managed to rebuild a working unit out of them. Still pretty good for a seven year old, but it's far from the [[
** A comic (linked to in [[Thank the Maker]]) shows Anakin found the structure mostly intact.
** Except the "andr" in ''android'' comes from the Greek word for ''man'', and the "oid" means ''like''. So it would literally mean robots in the [[Star Wars]] universe are so called because of their resemblance to the letters "d" and "r" - brilliance!
Line 161:
** We ''do'' see non-clone members of the Republic's military. Presumably they are the results of recruiting or conscripting troops from the various member worlds. It is of course also possible that nobody wanted to offer their troops up to die first until there was already a full-fledged Grand Army Of The Republic in place, so the Clones, led by the Jedi, served to act as that core that got things moving. Still morally reprehensible, [[Values Dissonance|at least by the standards]] of this blue dot, in this galaxy, a long time later. Note that earlier, the Jedi seemed to be not overly concerned by the existence of slavery on Tatooine, so this is at least a consistent attitude.
** More than that is because some worlds like Naboo are basically just pacifist who are not interested in building an army, and only possess a pissy security force with only 1000 force strong. Its is quite amazing that they even survive so long since they share a planet with the Gungans who are a [[Proud Warrior Race Guy|Warrior Race]] with a real standing army that could boot out the Naboo by just knocking on their doorstep with their own army. This is touched in [[Star Wars the Clone Wars]] where the Seperatist almost convinced the Gungans to side with them.
* Another thing, and this sort of combines [[Fridge Horror]] with [[Fridge Brilliance]]... in the original trilogy, Palpatine and Vader seem perfectly aware of the force, and Vader is shown mentioning it to other Imperial officers in [[A New Hope]], but they seem to perceive it as just another religion. However, they (or at least some of them) also seem to be aware that the Jedi were mostly wiped out, as implied by one of Tarkin's conversations with Vader, in which Tarkin says ''"you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion."'' Now think about this in light of the prequel trilogy. ''"Order 66"'' was already [[Moral Event Horizon|heinous]], but we know from the context that it was at least somewhat pragmatic; Palpatine wiped out the Jedi because they were the only rivals to himself and Vader in knowledge of the force. Tarkin, however, not believing in the force, is probably unaware that this was the reason. Now think about what he said once more. ''"All that is left of their religion."'' In other words, he [[A Nazi By Any Other Name|condones having people rounded up and killed for their religious beliefs]]. Sure, we knew he was [[Complete Monster|bad news]] from the start, [[Politically
** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool. Which is why he also threw in gypsies and crippled people.
** Okay, okay, so maybe it might not have been motivated by contempt for their religious beliefs, but the point remains that Tarkin's like some historical villains in wanting people killed for their religious beliefs. There are probably some actual examples, probably in communist dictatorships, of it being about the religious beliefs of the victims. My point overall is the implied distinction between Palpatine and Tarkin... Palpatine's heinous evil deeds are clearly driven by his lust for power, but for Tarkin even lust for power isn't sufficient explanation for his heinous evil deeds. neoYTPism
Line 274:
* I thought Anakin's Force-choking Padme was done perfectly. Everybody knows since Anakin turns to the Dark Side, he'll Force-choke someone for the first time. But who? Obi-Wan? [[The Scrappy|Jar Jar]]? Nope, it was Padme. Anakin's love, and his moral anchor. The only one who was stopping Anakin from completely slipping into darkness. It definitely plays into the perspective that Darth Vader is a damned Anakin Skywalker, and every time we see him choke someone in the OT, he's reliving that tragic moment where he lost his love. - [[Tropers/Premonition 45|Premonition 45]]
** And illustrating that point of reliving that moment is this scene in ''[[A New Hope]]'':
{{quote| '''Motti:''' [["The Reason You Suck" Speech|Don't try to fighten us with your sorceror's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure the stolen datatapes. Or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fortre-]]<br />
(''Vader raises his hand and starts Force-choking Motti'')<br />
'''Vader:''' I find your lack of faith disturbing. }}
Line 332:
** He didn't know what Anakin did exactly, all he heard was Qui-gon telling Anakin to stop, and his soon to be Vader breathing.
* In Episode III, Anakin Skywalker (newly named Darth Vader) is ordered to kill all the younglings in the Jedi Temple. Pretty bad already. And then you recall the fact that Force sensitive children are brought in to the temple when they're a few months old...
* Not only was it [[What an Idiot!|downright stupid]] for the Jedi to make use of the clone army without question, it was also incredibly immoral: They're essentially ''an army of brainwashed slaves'', since it's not like the clone troopers exactly got a choice about joining. Extra material points out the fact that many clones could prove mentally unstable and their accelerated development included a shortened lifespan. So essentially, the Jedi condone the creation of ''genetically-modified child soldiers''. Not to mention the fact that they're ''still'' on guard duty and quite possibly have been for hundreds of years
** In the EU, there are clones who do end up deserting, however their lives aren't exactly easy after that. Palpatine's method for dealing with deserters? Send Clone assassin squads after them. Or worse yet, what happens to clones who are injured to the point that they can survive, but never be fit for duty again? The only way you could officially leave the army was in a body bag.
*** Except for the fact that they didn't quite condone it. Get Traviss's preaching out of your head, what other choice did they have? It was either the clones or the few poorly trained and equipped security forces they had. Besides, they had no input into the creation of this army, it was literally a last-minute reveal. Is it still bad to use slave armies? yes it is, but it would kind of be a kick in the nuts to just cast them aside right after they deployed.
* Stop and consider for a brief moment the fact that nobody bothered to tell Luke was Vader's son. Essentially, Obi-Wan and Yoda had set up Luke to kill his father without ever knowing the truth. He might have even gone further down the Oedipus Rex path if he'd married Leia!
* In the original trilogy, Palpatine and Vader seem perfectly aware of the force, and Vader is shown mentioning it to other Imperial officers in [[A New Hope]], but they seem to perceive it as just another religion. However, they (or at least some of them) also seem to be aware that the Jedi were mostly wiped out, as implied by one of Tarkin's conversations with Vader, in which Tarkin says ''"you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion."'' Now think about this in light of the prequel trilogy. ''"Order 66"'' was already [[Moral Event Horizon|heinous]], but we know from the context that it was at least somewhat pragmatic; Palpatine wiped out the Jedi because they were the only rivals to himself and Vader in knowledge of the force. Tarkin, however, not believing in the Force, is probably unaware that this was the reason. Now think about what he said once more. ''"All that is left of their religion."'' In other words, he [[A Nazi By Any Other Name|condones having people rounded up and killed for their religious beliefs]]. Sure, we know he was [[Complete Monster|bad news]] from the start, [[Politically
*** Supplemental materials actually show that the idea of religious persecution is one of the more tame opinions of Tarkin. Ever wonder why Imperials are all humans? It's because one of the policies of the Empire was radical and violent racism against non human species. EU writers have basically made Tarkin a Star Wars [[Captain Ersatz]] of real life monster Heinrich Himmler, the head of the SS, who many believe was actually ''worse'' than Hitler.
**** Tarkin himself never expressed disbelief in the Force. That was Admiral Motti. Tarkin's later statement about Vader being the last of his religion indicates that he accepts Vader's power even if he's not a practitioner.
Line 344:
*** I know I certainly enjoyed the scenes where the Jedi engaged in due process, presented warrants, and reported back to the senate before taking major actions like attempting to assassinate a sitting prime minister. I mean, when a militaristic religious faction attempts to kill a sitting elected leader in his office without so much as informing anyone else in the government, that totally says "police" and not "dangerous terrorist" in any way, you're right.
*** Analogous, not "exactly the same." Don't be a smartass and stop ignoring and glossing over the fact that, you know, the "sitting elected leader" just made himself emperor for life, instigated a war that killed millions, and controlled the Senate that you're expecting the Jedi to go to.
* Here's a [[Star Wars]] Fridge Horror for you: Anakin Skywalker was The [[Chosen One]], prophesied to Bring Balance to the Force. At the time Anakin became a Jedi, there were hundreds(?) of Jedi... and [[Rule of Two|only two Sith]] (and a few dozen, at most, Dark Jedi). So there's [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|three obvious ways]] to 'balance' that imbalance: create armies of Sith/Dark Jedi, dramatically power up the existing dark-siders, or kill off the vast majority of the Jedi (which becomes [[Fridge Brilliance]], perhaps, when you consider that at the end of both movie trilogies, there are only two Jedi left (unless you count the EU - but that would balance the Dark Jedi...) This becomes '''especially''' Horrible when you consider that either the entire Jedi council was too dumb to realize this - or that they ''did'' and ''let it happen anyway''.
** [[Word of God]] says that to the Jedi, "Balance" meant eliminating all the Sith, as they were the imbalance in the Force. Yoda knew that Anakin would ultimately remove the last Sith, but didn't foresee all the horror before then.
** This particular bit of [[Fanon]] in regards to "Balancing the Force" sometimes gets annoying. [[Idiot Plot|How stupid do people think the Jedi are]]?
Line 350:
** supplementary materials say that it takes a long time without memory wipes to develop these behaviors. R2-D2 hadn't been memory wiped in decades, and I'm pretty sure Anakin built [[C 3 P 0]] like that
* Why do clone troopers have New Zealand accents, apart from the obvious? If we're going by [[Translation Convention]], they're the Star Wars equivalent of New Zealanders- and when [[Magnificent Bastard|Erwin Rommel]] says he could take and hold hell with New Zealanders, they're tough little buggers.
* ''Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.'' Obi-wan should know- he probably ''used to lead them.'' Alec Guinness' monotone delivery [[My God, What Have I Done?|now seems more like a tortured man trying hard not to relive the days he led the stormtroopers and their predecessors...]]
** Also doubles as [[Fridge Brilliance]] : The actual Stormtroopers [[Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy|have long ceased to be so precise]], but of course Obi-Wan remembers them differently...
* The Expanded Universe tells us that the main Imperial Pilot Academy (or whatever it was called) was located on Alderaan. Which means that when Death Star blew it up, they also killed all the would-be pilots training there. This takes [[For the Evulz]] of this act to a whole new level - not only was it unnecessary, it was also extremely counterproductive and may explain why good pilots were hard to find for the Empire...
| |||