Star Wars/Fridge: Difference between revisions

*** While I agree that Bringing Balance wasn't likely to be reducing the number of Jedi to equal the number of Sith, I always viewed the Jedi as fallen or failed. The Force is Life and exists in the myriad of shades of grey. Having only good would lead to an ineffectual Ivory Tower or totalitarian utopian society. Thus the Old Jedi order also needed to be removed to allow the Force to from freely through the universe without being shoehorned into a "human" flawed morality system. -[[Night Haunter]]

*** Bringing Balance to the force could be the galaxy's reset button. The KotOR games mention a Sith version of the chosen one. if both chosen ones are one in the same, then the job is reciprocated both ways. only a few jedi and dark jedi survive to spark their respective sides of the force after the prophecy comes true. this can be more than a one time occurrence,chosen ones for multiple eras. Arguably Darth Revan fits the bill.

*** Also, don't forget that the way one becomes the Sith Master is by killing the previous Sith Master. And at the end of ''Return of the Jedi'', Darth Vader kills Palpatine followed by Luke killing Vader (by removing his helmet). So one could argue that at the end, Luke is both the last remaining Jedi AND the last remaining Sith.

**** Alternatively, Luke is neither. He never finished his Jedi training. Vader killed Obi Wan, Palpatine and himself, while Yoda died on his own. No Jedi left, no Sith left. Balance! -- [[Tenebrais]]

** The point I think is that while sure, the Sith were a disease on the living force, ''so were the Old Jedi.'' They had become corrupted and misdirected, ossified, blind, dogmatic and tyrranical. If the Sith are a cancer, then the Old Jedi had become an autoimmune disease. To properly bring balance to the force, ''both'' the Sith and the Old Jedi had to be destroyed, and a new, redeemed Jedi order had to be rebuilt. So Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by destroying both the Old Jedi and the Sith, and fathering Luke and Leia.

** This was my idea on the "Balance" view of things, and it's a bit of an amalgamation of more than a couple of views stated above... I always applied the Taoist/Buddhist basis for the Jedi religion/philosophy rather strictly. Both Yin and Yang are necessary in complement to create balance within the universe, for without one the other cannot be defined - if one is diminished and the other over-reaching, the more heavily weighed side will start to corrupt/decompose in order to bring back the level balance. However, at the time of the Phantom Menace, the Sith - who were pure [[Neutral Evil]] - were only two, while the Jedi were in the hundreds. In essence the "light" side representatives of the force seriously out-weighed the dark side, and because of this, the Jedi order itself had become unstable, aligned with a corrupt government, blinded to the corruption taking place in a society they were sworn to protect, complacent and stagnant after thousands of years of stasis and a lack of growth. In themselves, the Jedi had begun to crumble and distort, deviating from the way they had prescribed for themselves and bound by a system of social and democratic governance that was in itself in decay. When the prophecy said that the Chosen One would bring "balance" back to the force, it didn't say "destroy the evil side so that the light side would reign supreme", it said, literally, bring back ''balance'' - an equal interplay of good and evil that was based on an equality of purpose so one side could define the other. Hence that is ''exactly what Anakin did''. First off, he destroyed the Jedi order, nearly eradicating all Jedi from the face of the universe, and neatly decimating the "good" or light side of the equation, bringing the evil or dark side into prominence, then he did the same with the ''dark'' side as well when it became overbearing and on the point of dominance. He brought both over-reaching weights on both good and evil back down to subliminal balance. Then after he was gone, Luke was left with a galaxy with a healthy representation of uncorrupted good, but still one with strong remnants of a clear and present evil. And that battle between good and evil is fought out and debated over the expanded universe beyond the events of episode 6. In effect, ''Anakin fulfilled the prophecy right down to the letter''. I only wished he could have done it without the excessive angsting that happened in episode III. Hope that makes sense, but that's just my view.

* I never liked the Prequel Trilogy, but then I watched them all back to back...AND THEY'RE BRILLIANT! Mostly if you look into the character of Anakin. First the annoying little kid? Even as a child you see the seeds of his turning over to the dark side. He has zero respect for authority, and this comes from him being a slave having to out smart his master. We see this, even in Episode 1, when the kid has the balls to STEAL A STAR FIGHTER AND ATTACK THE DROID CONTROL SHIP! But here's the kicker to me, this distrust of authority seems to actually have more to do with the light side than the dark side. In Episode 2, we see that Anakin is rebellious, but basically good (indeed it may be the Jedi trying to crush this rebellious streak that leads him to the dark side). In Episode 3, we see him openly espousing Crypto-fascist ideas, before submitting himself to the authority of Palpatine. He sticks to this worshipful reverence of Palpatine through out the original trilogy, and his moment of redemption is when he kills Palpatine. Also the way the Prequel Trilogy plays out like a mirror image of the Original is interesting too. In the first episode of the Prequel Trilogy we see a Hopeful world, but with a little bit of darkness hiding in the background, in the first of the Original Trilogy we see a dark world, but with a little bit of hope hiding in the background. By the end of the Prequel Trilogy the darkness basically overwhelms the hope, and by the end of the OT, Hope wins out. -[[Johni Boi]]

* Something that I realized while watching the third movie about how R2 was able to destroy 2 super battle droids without any problem. He was lifted into the air and after spurting oil at them was able to use a jetpack like apperatus and not only escape but set the oil on fire to destroy the other droids. This scene was so awesome that I didn't bother to think about it, but later I wondered why R2 didn't ever use those things in the older movies, but then I realized that he couldn't. He was a rebel droid in the first trilogy and they most likely didn't have the funds to spend on maxing out a single Astrodroid. Not only that, but after he joined the rebels he was just another droid instead of general Skywalkers personal droid which mostlikely came with special privledges. Without his status he most likely put aside and while in the service of Leia he wasn't given his past armaments.

*** Since The Force in ''A New Hope'' is portrayed as an "old religion" and Vader as a sort of Imperial cleric, it is quite likely Vader meant Father in the priestly sense. Fridge Brilliance indeed!

*** However, Lucas did have the idea for Obi-Wan and Vader being Luke's Dark and Light Fathers, symbolically.

** Also note that Vader's first task under Palpatine was to inVADE the Jedi Temple.

*** Apparently, "Darth Vader" was a name that existed from the first draft of Star Wars... but it belonged to some low-rank imperial officer. A person completely irrelevant in the grand sheme. So whatever meanings (coincidental or not) it eventually raked up, the name stayed mostly because it sounds AWESOME.

** The power was what Anakin could have been and was supposed to become, but never did. He was going to be the super-end all force user...which was why Palpatine was after him to be his apprentice, and why he put Order 66 in place the moment he had Anakin on his side. He knew that with Anakin as his apprentice, rounding up the Jedi would be no problem...which we see in that he pretty much destroyed the Jedi Temple on his own (which a squad of troopers - well known Jedi bait). Unfortunately, what Palp did not see coming was that Obi-Wan was going to defeat Anakin and reduce him to a (literal)half-man shell of what he once was...and what he was going to be. Obi-Wan was able to destroy Anakin's potential right there on Mustafar. If we accept that the number of midiclorians determines force power...if you lose half your body, you lose half your midiclorians. Every time a Jedi or Sith loses a limb it reduces their power level. Ironically, the Darth Vader of the original trilogy is a crippled and defeated old man in a walking iron lung who is not nearly as powerful as Palp thought he was going to be - but since most of all the other force-users are dead...he is a bad-ass. Vader's reduced capacity might also be why the Rebels were able to survive to cause so much trouble. Perhaps in Palp's original visions, his apprentice, fully-powered Vader, would have been able to sniff them out and destroy them utterly. It is also the reason why Palp was so eager for Luke to kill Vader and become the new Sith apprentice...Luke (and Leia) have that same potential to become just as powerful as Anakin would have. - [[Bad Sintax]]

** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instills a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi." (Save for Yoda until his death.) neoYTPism

* This is more of an EU Brilliance, but it has it's based on the movies. First, one has to wonder how exactly Palpatine became a racist, bloodthirsty despot growing up on pacifistic Naboo. I don't really have an answer to the bloodthirsty bit, but the xenophobia actually makes perfect sense. The only aliens that Palps would have known growing up on Naboo would have been Gungans, with whom the Naboo had had a sour relations with for centuries. No wonder he hated aliens, they were all Gungans to him!

** So, Jar Jar Binks and his kin ruined everything - that's what everyone's been trying to say, and it may be right!

** Exactly. Palpatine isn't a racist who holds nonhuman life in contempt; he's a [[Complete Monster]] who holds ''everybody's'' life in contempt, human or otherwise. His favoritism towards humans stems solely from A) the fact he is one, so is better-equipped to appeal to human racists' preferences in a leader than, say, Twilek racists' preferences; and B) the fact that humans happened to be in the best position to become his hate-motivated minions.

** All this is assuming that Palpatine is even his real name and Naboo is even his home planet....

** [[This Troper]] noticed the same thing, or at least the part about Luke proving Yoda and Obi-Wan wrong. Even ''without'' the prequel trilogy, it's clear that Luke redeemed Vader precisely BECAUSE he learned the truth and acted accordingly, which reflects poorly on the decisions of Obi-Wan and Yoda to lie to him. So, the original trilogy already made clear that the Jedi weren't quite as wise as they pretended to be and/or thought they were. The council's rigid traditionalism in the prequel trilogy only drives the point home further.

** Point of fact: Mace only decided to kill Palpatine ''after'' he carved several Jedi up like a Hibachi chef. The toughest guy he fought, before then, was Kar Vastor, and he was {{spoiler|incarcerated in the Jedi temple, after being charged with crimes against ''civilization''. He nearly destroyed an entire city; he was that dangerous.}} And Mace Windu, the guy who took ''that'' guy down, thinks Palpatine is too dangerous to let live. In addition to that, his strongest Force Talent is [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shatterpoint knowing where to hit things so they break], up to the scale of the entire Clone Wars, and he was looking at the big fat spider in the middle of his web who started it all. ''I'm inclined to believe him''.

** That was what this troper thought too, but [[The Cuckoolander Was Right|everyone around her kept calling her names for years]]! I always thought that the incredulous look that Obi-wan gave Han was the "Really, you found a shorter way to fly that route? Seriously, what are you insane?!" type.

** In the Expanded Universe, it's stated that the exact method he used was to fly through something called The Maw. What is The Maw? A giant nebula MADE OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BLACK HOLES. Had the calculations been off by as little as three inches, he would be very very dead.

** But the workaround failed in the end. Anakin ended up being the one who tossed Palpatine in the pit and, by returning to the Light Side, destroyed the Sith utterly. Even when Luke turned to the Dark Side, he did not become a Sith. Anakin's whole reason for existing was tied up in that one CMO; even to the point of making his EMO years integral to the end result - he had to cross over for a time to defeat Palpatine.

*** There's a school of thought on this, given explicit voice to in the novelization of ''Revenge of the Sith'', which postulates that the Chosen One prophecy was misinterpreted by the Jedi. The Jedi Order had become moribund and was allied with a corrupt government; the Jedi themselves were out of balance with the Force. The Choose One, who would bring Balance to the Force would have to destroy the Jedi Order, as well as the Sith before balance could be restored. So, the Chosen One did fulfill the prophecy, just not in the way anyone -Jedi or Sith- expected.

*** This has been brought up before (in fact, I'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere on this page already), but that's not what he meant by "balance". It means destroying the Sith because they're, as Palpatine alluded to, unnatural.

** The word 'balance' was poorly chosen. The Force and the Jedi religion are essentially Space Daoism. There is a natural order to things and the ultimate goal of a person's life is to fit himself into harmony with the universe, to find his path (his dao) and walk it. The Sith are out of harmony, they are an unbalancing force. The Jedi seek harmony, balance with the will of the Force. It would have been better if the prophecy said that the Chosen One would bring harmony.

* There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) until I watched all of the movies back to back. Once the movies are seen in order, It is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start.

** The battle of Naboo was a a [[Xanatos Gambit]] by Palpatine, and a particularly cunning one at that; so well crafted was the gambit that the movie's viewers, who were privy to information that the protagonists were not, couldn't recognize the gambit for what it was until years later. That's right, Palpatine is such a [[Magnificent Bastard]] that his Xanatos Gambits [[Breaking the Fourth Wall|break the 4th wall!]]

*** Which, according to the (apparently) canon Force Unleashed was created as a [[Xanatos Gambit]] by {{spoiler|Vader}}. Which was a bit of [[Fridge Brilliance]] in and on itself -Arzeef

* Kind of a small thing but... why is it that in [[The Phantom Menace]] it's Padme who calls for the vote of no confidence in the Supreme Chancellor? She is the Queen of Naboo, not the Nubian senator (at that point), technically she shouldn't have any official part to play except for serving as a witness to the Trade Federation's actions. Calling for the vote should have been Palpatine's responsibility.