Strong as They Need to Be: Difference between revisions

{{quote|'''Vegeta:''' Wait a damn minute, something's wrong here.

'''Gohan:''' Huh?

 

Every so often, the villain is just too powerful. They're going to [[The End of the World as We Know It|destroy the world]], or [[Take Over the World|at least control it]]. Sometimes, if the writers really want it to seem like a big deal, the villain will threaten the entire galaxy, universe, or even multiple realities. It seems all hope is lost. And there's nothing the heroes can do to stop it.

 

 

 

If any explanation is given at all, this is usually [[Hand Wave|handwaved]] as the character having simply [[Holding Back the Phlebotinum|held everything back]] up until this point, never mind all the dangerous, possibly near-death encounters they've most likely been through up until this point that [[You Never Asked|could've really used something like this]].

 

Often a result of the writers letting the [[Rule of Cool]] take over. Compare with [[I Am Not Left-Handed]] and [[New Powers as the Plot Demands]]. Can overlap with [[Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass]], and [[Power Creep, Power Seep]], and [[Berserk Button]]. If called upon to [[Hand Wave]] or [[Lampshade Hanging|put a lampshade]] on this, the character might give a [[World of Cardboard Speech]]. Contrast [[Drama-Preserving Handicap]]. For the phenomenon of "As Big As They Need To Be", see [[Artists Are Not Architects]], [[Your Size May Vary]], and [[Telescoping Robot]].

 

== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==

* In ''[[Dragon Ball]]'' (particullary ''[[Dragonball Z]]''), this is very common. One character is beaten, and a few moments later (without any chance of training), he is so much stronger that he can beat the guy who has just defeated him without even sweating. This is [[Justified]] by saying that "Saiyans get stronger after losing a fight".

** No, literally. Goku directly invoked this trope in the Buu Saga, using up the rest of his time on Earth to force himself to a ridiculously high [[Power Level]] and [[You Shall Not Pass|hold off the villain long enough for Trunks to escape]].<ref>Notable in that this is the closest a dead guy can come to a [[Heroic Sacrifice]]</ref>

** His Pikachu too, for that matter. At one point, it manages to [[One-Hit Kill|One Turn Kill]] a newly rested Regice with Volt Tackle (only the second time in the series that a [[Olympus Mons|Legendary Pokémon]] lost a one-on-one fight with a non-Legendary, and the previous time was a long, drawn-out fight in which the non-Legendary had a [[Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors|Type advantage]]). A few episodes later, it's having trouble fighting an Elekid.

** By now he's started intentionally handicapping himself by starting with a totally new team for every league save Pikachu. That doesn't explain why Pikachu's performance is spotty at best. All in all, it's actually gotten weaker as the series goes along, perhaps a reaction to the writers realizing Pikachu winning every battle would be boring. On the other hand, it'd be nice if they ''justified'' it in some way at least.

* ''[[Soul Eater]]'', such as with the ending of the anime giving the main groups a couple of [[Eleventh-Hour Superpower|late superpowers]]. While the 'courage punch' had ''some'' precedent (the important of courage having been used numerous times, but never ''quite'' so explicitly), things like {{spoiler|Maka's Weapon form and Kid's Sanzu Lines}} had no such setup whatsoever.

** While {{spoiler|Maka's weapon form}} was certainly an example, {{spoiler|Kid's Sanzu Lines}} were nothing new if you read the manga-the alternate ending is to blame, here.

* ''[[D.Gray-man]]'' revels in this trope. One time you'll see the whole cast ganging up on a single demon and taking several episodes to beat it, at great cost. The next day, despite being weary of the fight, they can kill them by the dozen.

** Somewhat averted with level 4 akumas, who are still crazy tough and require you being general strength just to beat one. The first one actually had a lot more punishment than the rest of them as it had all the generals, the protagonist and a recently re-empowered [[Action Girl]] against it.

* A rare villainous version: In ''[[Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann]]'', the {{spoiler|Anti Spiral King}} is shown to only use as much power as the Dai Gurren Brigade uses. This is to specifically invoke [[Hope Spot]] after [[Hope Spot]]—every time the heroes get stronger, the {{spoiler|Anti Spiral King}} effortlessly powers up to match them, all in the name of maximizing the terror and despair they feel. {{spoiler|It doesn't work.}}

** The [[Deconstruction]] is also mentioned: The end result of being "As strong as you need to be" in a universe where everyone else can do the same thing is the "Spiral Nemesis"—eventually, two factions each following this trope will fight ''each other'', leading inevitably to the explosion filled destruction of the universe. {{spoiler|Given the fact that the last fight between the ASK and DGB literally destroys one universe, he probably has a point. It's also mentioned that those with the Spiral Power instinctively recognize the truth of the Spiral Nemesis when told about it.}}

* ''[[Inazuma Eleven]] [[The Movie|the Orge]]'' take this trope which has already been used regularly [[Up to Eleven|up to]] [[Incredibly Lame Pun|eleven.]] First season Raimon has to fight the third season's [[Bonus Boss]], who can easily defeat Zeus, the first season's [[Big Bad]] that the heroes needed to struggle so much to win in the TV anime. What do they need to win within 30 minutes? A [[Kid From the Future]], four new players, and some ''four-tier above'' abilities the heroes learn because they're getting really serious.

 

**** But that could be because Superman was still weak after being exposed to red sunlight for several days.

**** Don't forget, however, that Superman ''did,'' in [[Superman: The Animated Series]], beat Darkseid to a bloody mess (by DCAU standards) when he and Batman invaded Apokalips. The difference is, at that point, Superman was ''still'' holding back so as not to kill him. By the time of the Unlimited finale, he was pretty much actually '''[[Thou Shalt Not Kill|trying to kill him]]''', since he knew that he probably couldn't. Remember, Supes, unlike Batman, ''will'' relax his [[Thou Shalt Not Kill]] rule when there absolutely is no other option.

*** In the defense of [[Kingdom Come]], there ARE hints earlier in the book that this Superman is much more powerful than others. Luthor himself mentions that Supes is so soaked up on sunlight, he's now immune to Kryptonite.

*** Also, what was stated was that the bomb would have killed Superman if it had hit him point blank. [[Captain Marvel]] was presented as exactly as powerful after all, and {{spoiler|it took his sacrifice to save Superman and the others powerful enough to take it}}. (Doctor Fate & Green Lantern, who protected about half of the fighters)

* [[The Hulk]]'s level of physical might and durability varies tremendously. This one, however, has a built-in explanation: Hulk's physical might—and in [[Hulk (film)|the 2003 movie]], his physical mass and size—is directly related to how angry he gets. Hence the [[Catch Phrase]] "The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets." For example, [[Wolverine]] has fought him several times—most of the time to a standstill until he manages to get one good cut in and piss the Hulk off enough that his anger really flares up. At the same time, during the Onslaught [[Crisis Crossover|event]], in the last battle with the titular villain, Jean Grey mentally removed any blocks Banner may have had to restrain himself, and he beat the hell out of the physical form of a being that could [[Reality Warper|alter reality with a thought]]. In short: hope your first punch knocks him out.

** Similarly to Darwin below, in one story Hulk developed the ability to breathe in space by getting angry enough.

** However, he only gains a power that will let him ''survive'', which doesn't necessarily mean winning. Stick him in a fight with [[The Hulk]], for example, and he gains the ability to teleport into the next state or [[Nigh Invulnerability]] that would let him weather The Hulk's fury (but nothing that would let him actually fight back).

** Stygian Killer Hornets, thank you... Bees. My God.

* [[Spider-Man]] has this problem very often. His strength, while theoretically possible to mathematically calculate, is subject to plenty of fluctuation. Even his webbing is subject to this, sometimes being broken by a [[Badass Normal]] and sometimes strong enough to hold up a car or two.

* This is actually part of [[Venom (Comic Book)|Venom]] (Mac Gargan)'s powers; when injured or threatened, the symbiote can increase in mass and strength to meet whatever threat it is fighting with equal force.

* [[Deadpool]], whose healing powers are literally taken from Wolverine, has his own healing ability fluctuate wildly depending on how powerful they need to be for the plot. This is explained away as a result of the constant battle between his cancer and his healing powers, as sometimes the cancer gains ground and sometimes the healthy cells gain ground. It even becomes a major plot point when his healing factor stays in a weakened state and he seeks medical attention to try and improve it. He is literally immortal though, since after meeting Death herself when he was having near death experiences he fell in love with her, Thanos became jealous of Deadpool and prevents his soul from passing on so they can never be together.

 

== [[Film]] ==

 

== [[Literature]] ==

** Orcs get this treatment a lot too. Sometimes they are almost a joke and a minor threat to guardsmen unless they have a huge numbers advantage, and sometimes the same kind will be a difficult fight to Space Marines one-on-one. Same applies to Tyranids.

*** Orcs are a special case. A feral Ork army is almost laughable in terms of strength, while a carefully constructed WAAAGH! is almost unstoppable. Often, you'll see something in between the two. The strength of the Orks depends on the strength of the local WAAAGH! It's a species that runs on [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe]], thus Strong as They Need to Be is easily justified. The writer just has to limit how hard they can "clap."

** Possibly justifiable in cases where the story is about different chapters/regiments/hives/etc. as experience plays a big part in war.

** This is also why older wizards tend to be weaker than their younger counterparts. Their skill with magic is such that they don't ''need'' as much power.

* Done well, and justified, in a fight scene from ''[[Lord Darcy|Too Many Magicians]]'': Lord Ashley is dueling a villain whose sword is enchanted, and keeps flickering in and out of visibility. As he's pressed hard by his foe's invisible attacks, Ashley's fear activates his own power of prescience, allowing him to intuit exactly where the blade will strike next. This turns the tables on the villain, who begins a fighting retreat ... at which point, Lord Ashley's growing confidence causes his prescient power to shut down again, as it's established that it [[Power Incontinence|only works when he's under stress]]. Luckily for him, his opponent doesn't realize that's what happened, and when Ashley hesitates, his foe seizes the opportunity to escape rather than attack.

 

* Pro wrestling loves this trope. The good guy will consistently get beaten and be depicted as brutalized and exhausted, until they suddenly bounce back for a victory.

* Inverted in the [[Mystery Science Theater 3000|MST-bait]] ''[[Puma Man]]'', in which the "superhero" is capable to tearing apart a car or ripping into a brick wall with his bare hands, but at the movie's climax is just ''barely'' able to overpower an elderly [[Donald Pleasence]] in a struggle.

* In the [[Buffy Verse]] as a whole the strength of vampires varies greatly, from clearly superhuman on a level that can't hope to be matched (Buffy and Angel Season 1) to being able to be beat by the [[Badass Normal]] of Angel, Charles Gunn, easily.

** When asked about the strength of [[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]], [[Joss Whedon]] [[Word of God|replied]], literally "[[Shrug of God|as strong as the plot needs her to be]]".

** ''[[Angel]]'' tended to do this a lot as well. Particularly notable with Connor, whose abilities seemed to correspond directly to how inconvenient it would be. When he's on their side, gets beaten up by practically everything not an ordinary vampire. When fighting against them, took out almost the entire team single handed, twice.

* In [[Toku]] series such as ''[[Kamen Rider]], [[Super Sentai]], [[Power Rangers]]'' and the like, this trope is in effect, with power levels depending on how pissed you are, what time of episode it is and how fast the plot needs to move past one fight, and how loud you yelled before rushing in. ''[[Hikonin Sentai Akibaranger]],'' a parody [[Super Sentai]] series, had the Rangers realize that the general leaving is like an [[Event Flag]] for the good guys to start winning; the [[Monster of the Week]] was been invincible before, but they realize what always happens soon after the general says something to the effect of "I'll leave this to you" to the monster. As suddenly they're pummeling the previously-unbeatable foe, Red triumphantly cries out that consistent power levels ''do not exist!'' Yeah, it's that kinda series.

 

* ''[[God of War (series)|God of War]]'': Kratos has this all the time. It's particularly notable in the second game when the Colossus of Rhodes stamps on him, and he ''tosses it away''. But there's a wall in the way? Must go all the way around this convoluted route rather than just, I don't know, knock a hole in it. Or in the first game, when your method of getting through a gate with thin bars that something else already ripped a hole in is to push over a 60 foot high statue.

** Maybe Kratos has extra powers when attacking statues?

** Well, he's a god of ''war''. Maybe he's strongest when he's got something to fight?

 

== [[Web Original]] ==

 

== [[Web Comics]] ==

** Actually, it was explained why George couldn't use his powers against Mynd; Mynd was able to just absorb the electricity. There's also the fact he appears to have a limit on how often he can use his powers (his MP- er, Weapon Energy). And by accident? He destroyed that castle because he was pissed that he had been hung up from the ceiling for months and could have done something about it, but he couldn't because he forgot he could.

* In ''[[L's Empire]]'', the king or queen of the Kayoss will always be stronger than the combined power of those they are fighting.

* Butch of ''[[Chopping Block]]'' is overweight and out-of-shape, and was once outrun by an old lady with a walker, but whenever his life is in danger, he becomes absurdly lethal. Chalk it up to the strip's [[Negative Continuity]].

 

== [[Western Animation]] ==

* In ''[[Teen Titans (animation)|Teen Titans]]'', due to the emphasis on the [[Rule of Cool]], the team's powers and abilities were considerably up and down. One infamous example was the case where [[Badass Normal|superpowerless]] Boy Wonder was able to singlehandedly beat down Cinderblock, with his bare hands. Every other time however, Robin and his teammates struggled to defeat him. The Titans often reached literal godlike levels during the season finales.

** Let's not forget Cyborg's little trick of reassembling himself after Brother Blood literally took him apart in a fight. This was so ridiculous that the writers [[Lampshade Hanging|included a line of dialogue]] stating that this was a one time thing.

* [[The Powerpuff Girls]] are notorious for this. One episode will have them <s>swatting skyscraper-sized monsters with ease (often with just one of the girls doing the dirty work)</s> proving themselves to adult heroes as the mightiest supers in their entire universe, and another will have all three girls get beaten down by a gang of ordinary thugs.

** Not to mention one time where an overweight nerd was able to trap them in toy packaging. I mean, SERIOUSLY?!

** The in-story description of it is "nigh-invulnerability." The Tick is always the exact right amount of invulnerable to keep the plot going. So he's much more vulnerable during slapstick scenes.

** Also, of course, [[Flanderization|how late the season is.]]

 

== [[Real Life]] ==

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[[Category:Superhero Tropes]]