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Super Robot Wars Z/YMMV: Difference between revisions
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** Despite being a [[Duel Boss]] against whom you can only use Setsuna/Exia, {{spoiler|Alejandro Corner in the Alvaaron}} can be easily made into this. It only has around 20k HP, and Setsuna with decently upgraded weapons, his ace bonus, and the Spirit Soul cast can easily do over 30k damage with a single attack.
** In the same spirit as the above, ''Saisei-Hen'' gives us {{spoiler|Wiseman}} as a [[Duel Boss]] for [[Armored Trooper VOTOMS|Chirico]]. The anticlimatic part is that he controls a normal Bloodsucker with just about 12K Hitpoints and no special features and can easily be finished in one move.
* [[Broken Base]]: Hakai-hen is already suffering from this. Some have found the cast list to be the best thing ever, while others hate this game for removing the Tri-Battle System, having only "ONE" route that you can pick(Crowe's route), lack of secrets and the inability to save certain characters who they want to survive the course of the series. But since Hakai-hen is only Part 1 of SRW Z2 most of the complaints could be a case of [[Fan Dumb]].
** People seem to be either rejoicing that Tetsujin #28, essentially the great grand-father of giant robots, is at long last showing up in SRW...only it's the 80s remake and not the original. Which has some people happy Tetsujin #28 is showing up at all, some wishing it was the original, and some happy it's that version.
** The arrangements for some of the songs in Z2.1 has fans either cheering (such as Kanjite Knight and Heats), or outright wanting to murder the composer in cold blood, with "Tori no Uta" being the largest offender to some. It wouldn't be that big of an issue...had not the same track been used in ''[[Super Robot Wars L]]'', giving fans something to compare.
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*** They would probably have to consider the hardware as well, considering how big the mecha in [[Gurren Lagann]] actually get.
** The fact that {{spoiler|Euphie is turned out [[Not Quite Dead]]}} in the ZEXIS Route, but {{spoiler|Kamina and Neil!Lockon stay dead}} ''does'' annoy some people. Though to be fair, {{spoiler|Euphie comes back alive}} has less (YMMV) negative impact to the overall plot (for both ''Saisei-hen'' and [[Code Geass]]) than {{spoiler|Kamina and Neil}}.
* [[Complete Monster]]: [[Expy|Totally-Not-Masaki]] Asakim Dowin, who displays his true depravity in Setsuko Ohara's route. The thing is that he comes off as a [[Draco in Leather Pants]] in Rand Travis' route, leading to a large [[Misaimed Fandom]] who follow him.
** And now that it has been confirmed that both Rand and Setsuko's routes are canon...he could be seen as both this trope and an [[Anti-Villain]].
** The [[Big Bad]] of ''Z'' fits perfectly here, if only for the sheer destruction and havoc he brought about [[For the Evulz]].
** Also [[Grendizer|King Vega]], [[Zambot 3|Gaizock]] and [[The Dragon|his dragon]] [[Zambot 3|Killer the Butcher]], [[Space Warrior Baldios|Zeo Gattler]], [[God Sigma|Gargan of the Elda]], [[Getter Robo|Emperor Burai]], [[Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam|the Titans]], [[Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny|Lord Djibril]], [[The Big O|Alan Gabriel]] and [[Eureka Seven|Dewey Novak]].
** And now Z2 gives us [[Mobile Suit Gundam 00|Ali Al-Saachez]], [[God Mars|Emperor Zul]], [[Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z-hen|Dr. Hell]], [[Getter Robo|Cohen and Stinger]] and [[Dancougar|Emperor Muge Zorbados]] as well as [[Consummate Liar|Aim Liard]], [[The Dragon]] to [[Big Bad|Gaioh]].
* [[Crowning Music of Awesome]]: When a rumor that Back Alley Space Boy wouldn't be Dai-Guard's theme was disproved, [[And the Fandom Rejoiced|the internet went nuts]]. And yes, it's probably one of the best instrumentals they have in ''Hakai-hen''.
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** [[Code Geass|Kallen]] and [[Armored Trooper VOTOMS|Chirico]], of all people. They had much chemistry since ''Hakai-hen'', spent much time fighting along together, and even some [[Ship Tease]] moments (some in front of Fiona even).
* [[Demonic Spiders]]: Or [[Incredibly Lame Pun|DAMONic Spiders]] as the case may be: High shields, status effect infliction, rather good accuracy/evasion rates (and will only go higher due to their Prevail skill), AND HP and EN regeneration. As someone on [[Something Awful]] put it, "It's like someone decided [[Macross Plus|the Ghost X9]] should be [[Up to Eleven|more annoying]]".
** [[It Got Worse]]: When you face those with ''MAP weapons''. In the last stage you face ''a few'' who have stats like a mini-boss, and their MAP weapons ''do not hit their allies''.
** Thankfully in ''Saisei-hen'', those Bull DAMON and the Rhino DAMON have less HP, don't have HP or EN regeneration, and have no barriers anymore. [[This Is Gonna Suck|That is, until you start to face Artificial DAMON mid-game...]]As the weaker ones are even ''stronger'' than the old Rhino DAMON.
** Stage 15 introduces Axio Burglars (piloted by Fire Bugs). They all have Jamming Device which makes friendly units 2 grids around them have their evasion and hit rate improved by 10%, ''and these bonus stack if they're near to one another''. These make evasive Reals like King Gainer or Scopedog VERY prone to their strong attacks (their strongest attack reduces victim's Will even), while it's almost impossible to hit them without using Seishins. Marin in her Burglar/Pearl Fang only makes that worse, since she is always there to lead her gang......And boosts their evasion/hit rate with her Command skill.
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* [[Game Breaker]]: Not to the levels of [[Zeorymer]] in [[Super Robot Wars MX]] and [[Super Robot Wars Judgment]], but the Baldios and [[Eureka Seven|Nirvash Spec2]] count. To elaborate, Baldios is a [[Lightning Bruiser]] that's a size LL, giving it a damage/defense bonus against pretty much everything, high armor, ridiculous range, strong and economic weapons, and better yet, it has a "sub-dimensional warp" ability allowing it to dodge anything completely with a set probability. The Nirvash, on the other hand, doesn't start as much until you advance in the game and get its upgrade, the Spec2, which gives you a hideously overpowered MAP weapon that can be recharged and abused using the appropriate skills.
** The [[Genesis of Aquarion|Aquarion]] in the hands of a player who knows what he/she's doing also counts. This mecha has the unique ability "Element System", which gives the primary pilot the highest stat among the three pilots in every category if his or her Will passes 130; not a difficult task. This may not seem like much at first, but if one takes each of the three pilots and pump a specific stat, an Element System-powered Apollo can hit like a tank, dodge like a Gundam and have a high enough skill stat to activate "Attack Again", allowing him to double-hit everything using his insanely powerful weapons that have amazing range, which can be further improved with items and parts.
** [[The Big O|Roger Smith's]] "Negotiation" skill: so long as Roger is deployed on the battlefield and remains there until the end of the scenario, any and all repair costs from destroyed units are reduced to zero. Repeat: '''ALL REPAIR COSTS ARE REDUCED TO ZERO'''. It helps [[The Big O]] is one of the game's better units by being a defensive and offensive powerhouse capable of leveling enemy forces by itself with the right build. It's weapons also have pretty good range for a [[Super Robot]] and its most powerful stuff are ammo-based.
** The [[Turn
** [[Super Dimension Century Orguss|Kei Katsuragi and his Orguss]]. This pilot is one of the best in ''Z'', if not ''the'' flat-out best: He comes with an amazing skill set (containing the much sought-out "Attack Again" and "Counter"), a high enough skill rating to make use of both, high dodge and shooting stats, and a very dodgy mech that has no business doing as much damage as it does. [[It Gets Better]]: later in the game, he gets {{spoiler|Orson}} as a partner with an identical machine, giving them both access to a very cost-effective and powerful [[Combination Attack]] that makes them even more broken (and looks flat out awesome, especially with the "Orguss Handshake" in the end.
** The "Nirvash/Haman/Amuro/Resupply" combo, which pretty much lets you breeze through the last half of the game by over using the Spec 2's Seventh Swell MAP weapon.
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** [[Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z-hen|Mazinger Z]] has the highest armour value among allied units and powerful attacks at all ranges, including a ''7-range'' Photon Beam which it gets early on in the game (it ignores size differences and barriers as well). Combined with energy regeneration ("small" un-upgraded, "medium" as a full upgrade bonus) that allows it to spam the attack multiple times every turn, it becomes possibly the best super robot you have for most of the game. Oh, and if you think the good old Mazin Power (gain an attack bonus upon reaching a certain Will level) is gone? Simply train Kouji until he hits Ace status to get it.
*** Not to mention ''Saisei-hen'' gives it God Scrander, allowing it to use Big Bang Punch (MAP and normal versions) and One Hundred Rocket Punch, both post-movement even. The best part? MAP BBP and OHRP are both ammo-based (1 though), meaning one can spam EN like no other when dealing with grunts.
** The real [[Game Breaker]]? The humble Propellant Tank in Z2. [[Rescued
** [[Code Geass|Lelouch]] can easily become this in ''Saisei-hen'', between the Shinkirou's Absolute Protection Territory (which nullifies '''ANY''' attack under 4000 damage), his powerful Phase Transition Cannon MAP, and his Ace Bonus, which randomly casts a beneficial Seishin on himself<ref>the ''worst'' of which is Flash, meaning nothing like Scan</ref> when he hits 150 Morale. And while Shikirou's Absolute Protection Territory costs a jarring 30 EN by each use, you could make it cost 0 EN after fully upgrading it and selecting the Full Upgrade Bonus. Give Lelouch Support Defense while you're at it and Shinkirou becomes an awesome tanking unit.
*** Suzaku in his Lancelot Albion is also a ''beast'', even more so after you make him Ace Pilot. He gets a Skill called Geass' Curse, which allow him to activate Prevail Lv9 and grants a damage bonus after he hits 130 Morale. Now as aforementioned, Prevail is a skill which grants many sorts of bonuses as the user's HP goes down. This alone makes him very formidable already. His Ace Bonus? ''Geass' Curse is activated regardless of Will level''. Doesn't hurt that the Albion is a very powerful unit and Suzaku's Soul only need 40SP. However, you only get to use him in the last ten stages or so.
*** You get to use Kallen pretty early in ''Saisei-hen'', and for those who used her in ''Hakai-hen'' should know how strong she is already... Until you receive Guren SEITEN Eight Elemental Type. It's still a Size S unit with S adaptability in air, high mobility, a barrier, and its Radiation Wave Emitter's power even rivals other protagonists' units, while it's one of the ''least'' EN usage for a unit's strongest attack. The only problem is ''still'' its absurd EN drainage, but like Aquarion it can be fixed by parts. She isn't called as "the Ace of Black Knight Corps" for nothing.
** The Zero System itself [[Took a Level
*** Combined with the trainable pilot ability: "Attack Again" which allows the pilot to provide offensive support for themselves if their Skill stat is 20 or greater than the enemy. Normally this ability would only be good against enemy grunts and useless against bosses since their Skill is often greater than or equal to most of your pilots. With +40 Skill, this almost guarantees Wing Zero will be able to [[Double Tap]] almost all bosses assuming you kept Heero up to level. Counter is also a nice ability to have too. In other words, not only is the Zero System buffed, the game as a whole is a far better environment for the Zero System to shine.
**** Wing Zero also has one of the most cost effective attacks in the game: A [[Laser Sword|beam saber]] attack that does 5500 damage fully upgraded for only 5 EN (4 EN with E Save) and comes with 1~3 range. Other non-ammo attacks that do same amount of damage will cost at least +10 EN. Gundam DX's Hyper Beam Sword for example, has the same amount of range and damage when fully upgraded but costs 15 EN (12 EN with E Save). Combined with "Attack Again," Wing Zero can perform this attack twice and kill any non-boss enemy for only 8 EN. The beam saber's dynamic kill is also [[Simple Yet Awesome]].
*** Compared to Chirico Cuvie's "Abnormal Survivor" ability which grants +30 to Hit and Evade and +20 to Melee, Ranged, Defense and Skill but requires Chirico to be at 10% HP or less, the Zero System is a much more [[Awesome Yet Practical]] equivalent since most end game enemies especially on hard mode can still hit you and some bosses can one shot your units at full health.
*** The Wing Zero might as well be the second coming of the Nirvash Spec2 from Z1 but better. It's Rolling Buster Rifle MAP weapon may not have the damage and range as the Seventh Swell, but its usable post-movement and comes with 3 ammo as opposed to the Spec2's single shot.
** 00 Raiser. Just, '''holy shit''', 00 Raiser. 7700 power post-movement attack with 2-6 range and a MAP attack version that skewers any enemies in a straight line with 12 range, and a 50% chance of perfect evasion at 130 will. It also helps that Setsuna is a ''much'' better pilot this time around and eventually gets a skill that gives him +20 to accuracy, evasion, and skill as well as passive SP regen!
*** This ability also stacks with "SP Recover" and "SP Get" allowing you to recover +30 SP each turn.
** [[Macross 7]]'s Sound Force again (yes, [[Super Robot Wars Destiny|yet]] [[Super Robot Wars Alpha|again]] in ''Saisei-hen'', just like any other game they debut, they can restore an ally's Spirit Points and increase their Will, and later buffing ally's stats for the remaining of the stage. But you know what's better? ALL THEIR ATTACKS CAN DEBUFF ENEMY'S WILL! Yes, even MAP attacks can debuff their will too. After Basara learns Dynamite Explosion, he can gives Seishin to a teammate too, alongside free Bless and Cheer. Did we mention he can also deal damage to Dimensional Monsters with his song?
*** Feels hard to train Basara with the though of lacking PP? Throw him into groups of Vajira and watch him sing them away (if they're under 120 Will after hearing the song------And yes, even those Bishop Class), earning him MASSIVE amount of PP and Song Spirit in progress. Due to this, his presence makes ''any'' stages consisting of Vajira an absolute cakewalk.
*** Oh and for some extra kicks? Train [[Macross Frontier|Ozma]] as an Ace, sing Try Again to him with Hot Blood. Notice the HUGE status buff on Ozma? Congratulations, [[Took a Level
** The Nu Gundam is incredible in ''Saisei-hen'', both because it's an amazing machine and because Amuro is an incredible pilot. At max upgrades, with the Psychoframe active, and Amuro at ace status, Fin Funnel has '''7000''' power and '''1-12''' range! It's also incredibly efficient, with ''10 ammo'' that can be raised to 15 with the Bullet Save skill! It even supplements its weakest area (lack of a powerful post-movement attack) with its new (gorgeously animated) Combo Assault.
** Esther's Ace Bonus turns her Hot Blood Spirit into Love with the same cost of her Hot Blood spirit. In order words, you get Hot Blood, Accel, Luck, Flash, Effort and Strike all at once with just 40 SP. Wow. Too bad that Esther learns Hot Blood at Stage 46.
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** The DAMON's increasingly become this.
* [[Player Punch]]: {{spoiler|1=[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFiiuEPnG1Y Esther becomes a Dimensional Beast] in ''Saisei-hen''. She gets better, though.}}
* [[Rescued
** Same with Godmars, which was a scrappy unit in Destiny due to the same bug and if it was destroyed, it was an instant game over. Although the same "game over" situation is in ''Hakai-hen'', Godmars is rendered as an ass-kicking tool of destruction that's nearly unstoppable. One fan on the Gamefaqs board described it as "two trucks duct-taped together with an atomic bomb"...[[Earthshattering Kaboom|which is an oddly accurate description of Godmars itself]]. It also helps that after the Godmars finale, the bomb is disposed of safely and there's now no game-ruining risk involved with using it.
** [[Getter Robo|Getter-3]] in ''Hakai-hen'' is no longer a situational unit(at best): it's actually a pretty good unit.
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** Also {{spoiler|1=[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjfVMZggw44 Kamina], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-UV1sk8ZNo Euphie] and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUe83vpiKC0 Neil!Lockon]}} in ''Hakai-hen''. The worst part about the latter three is {{spoiler|while you can save Aki from her canon death (which you did in canon), Kamina, Euphie and Neil's deaths are permanent and unavoidable}}...[[Epileptic Trees|or maybe just until ''Saisei-hen'']]...
*** Especially in {{spoiler|Kamina's}} death, where [[Ax Crazy|Batshit]] [[Getter Robo|Ryouma]], of all people, screams for his name in the same way he screams whenever Musashi bites the dust.
*** {{spoiler|[[Not Quite Dead]]}}: {{spoiler|Euphie faked her death as shown in ''Saisei-Hen'', but seems only on ZEXIS Route.}}
* [[That One Boss]]: The[[Overman King Gainer|Overdevil]], [[Turn
** ''Hakai-hen'' has the dreaded big three of Emperor Zul, Moon Will's Original Dancougar and Lord Genome's Lazengann. All of them can and will one-shot your mechs if you aren't careful
** Also {{spoiler|Level 99 Gaioh, which is only avalible if you're on hard mode and pick the second conversation choice.}}
* [[That One Level]]: Rand's last scenario on EX-Hard mode is ''insanely'' annoying, both because of it's length and the sheer difficulty spike the [[Big Bad]] is compared to the previous few stages. [[Save Scumming]] is almost a must to avoid an [[Unwinnable]] situation.
** Some of the special mission requirements are near impossible to beat without a great deal of luck and [[Save Scumming]]. The only real way to beat Z's hard mode while getting the skill points, ending points and such is level grinding the repair units (makeing Rand's route a little easier since he can repair) to high levels as soon as you get a stage without a time limit.
** Just about any stage in Z 2 Hakai-Hen with [[Demonic Spiders|Dimensional Monsters]] is a pain in the ass. Especially Stage 50. Artificial DAMON's presences anywhere in ''Saisei-hen'' isn't any better either.
** Stage 35 of ''Saisei-hen'' starts off with all your characters getting [[Mind Rape|their heads messed with]], starting them off at 70 Will (and CANNOT use any Seishins) while hordes of Artificial DAMON close in, dealing massive damage to your units while taking paltry amounts in return.
* [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]: ''Hakai-hen'' and ''Saisei-hen'' being on a handheld has attracted a large number of complaints, as well as the removal of the Tri-Battle System. A combination of these two things has also limited the returning series to their key cast members and units only.
** In addition to the above, the fact that [[What Could Have Been|Z2 was planned to be a Playstation 2 game]] had some fans upset, as the PSP is seen as a downgrade in terms of graphic capabilities.
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** The ''[[Macross Frontier]]'' units are now medium-sized rather than small, and no longer have their pinpoint barrier, which means that they're no longer the [[Game Breaker]] units that they were in ''[[Super Robot Wars L]]''. Naturally, people complained.
*** At least the Pinpoint barrier did returned in Saisei Hen.
*** Actually, [[
* [[The Woobie]]: Setsuko.
** Uther might well surpass her in [[The Woobie]] status.
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{{reflist}}
[[Category:Super Robot Wars Z]]▼
[[Category:YMMV]]
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