Super Robot Wars Z/YMMV: Difference between revisions

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* [[And the Fandom Rejoiced]]: Regardless of whether people liked [[Mobile Suit Gundam SEED|Kira Yamato]] or not, many loud cheers were heard when [[Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny|Shinn Asuka]] piloting the Impulse destroyed Kira's Freedom with his signature [[BFS]] as an in-game attack in a promo video prior to game release...AndThereWasMuchRejoicing. Another major one for fans of [[The Big O]] was being able to play as fan-favorite [[Laughably Evil|Jason Beck]], IN HIS BECK THE GREAT RX-3, NO LESS!! Yet ''another'' one for [[The Big O]] fans was finding out that this time, the series gets properly represented and features heavily in the plot.

** The inclusion of ''[[Dai-Guard]]'' was this for a small but dedicated fandom, bolstered by [[Crowning Music of Awesome|Hakai-hen's arrangement of "Back Alley Space Boy"]] and the use of its [[Crowning Moment of Funny|improvised ROCKETTO PAUNCH]] in one of its attack animations.

** Musashi actually living long enough to pilot Shin Getter. Note that in all previous SRW's and [[Getter Robo]] canon, Musashi either dies before Shin Getter gets activated, his death helps Shin Getter activate, or survives but is simply demoted to piloting the weaker Getters solo. Fans were quite happy that for once, the original Getter team was together in Shin Getter as its pilots.

** Despite being a [[Duel Boss]] against whom you can only use Setsuna/Exia, {{spoiler|Alejandro Corner in the Alvaaron}} can be easily made into this. It only has around 20k HP, and Setsuna with decently upgraded weapons, his ace bonus, and the Spirit Soul cast can easily do over 30k damage with a single attack.

** In the same spirit as the above, ''Saisei-Hen'' gives us {{spoiler|Wiseman}} as a [[Duel Boss]] for [[Armored Trooper VOTOMS|Chirico]]. The anticlimatic part is that he controls a normal Bloodsucker with just about 12K Hitpoints and no special features and can easily be finished in one move.

** People seem to be either rejoicing that Tetsujin #28, essentially the great grand-father of giant robots, is at long last showing up in SRW...only it's the 80s remake and not the original. Which has some people happy Tetsujin #28 is showing up at all, some wishing it was the original, and some happy it's that version.

** The arrangements for some of the songs in Z2.1 has fans either cheering (such as Kanjite Knight and Heats), or outright wanting to murder the composer in cold blood, with "Tori no Uta" being the largest offender to some. It wouldn't be that big of an issue...had not the same track been used in ''[[Super Robot Wars L]]'', giving fans something to compare.

*** They would probably have to consider the hardware as well, considering how big the mecha in [[Gurren Lagann]] actually get.

** The fact that {{spoiler|Euphie is turned out [[Not Quite Dead]]}} in the ZEXIS Route, but {{spoiler|Kamina and Neil!Lockon stay dead}} ''does'' annoy some people. Though to be fair, {{spoiler|Euphie comes back alive}} has less (YMMV) negative impact to the overall plot (for both ''Saisei-hen'' and [[Code Geass]]) than {{spoiler|Kamina and Neil}}.

** And now that it has been confirmed that both Rand and Setsuko's routes are canon...he could be seen as both this trope and an [[Anti-Villain]].

** The [[Big Bad]] of ''Z'' fits perfectly here, if only for the sheer destruction and havoc he brought about [[For the Evulz]].

* [[Crowning Music of Awesome]]: When a rumor that Back Alley Space Boy wouldn't be Dai-Guard's theme was disproved, [[And the Fandom Rejoiced|the internet went nuts]]. And yes, it's probably one of the best instrumentals they have in ''Hakai-hen''.

** While Crowe's theme in Hakai-hen, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQzaLOZwnMI Close Game Life], is a little underwhelming, his [[Mid-Season Upgrade]] theme [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aaddvtbgs&feature=related 'The Unbreakable'] more than makes up for it.

** On the Villains' side, in Z1, we have Asakim Dowin's ''incredibly'' catchy [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O_1WNsvGZM Black Stranger].

** Likewise in Z2, there's [[Complete Monster|Aim Liard's strangely heroic sounding]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAl-MxsHFpk Unture Crystal]. As well as the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y2dL3LAstk various] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM0y7KpuauQ Ark]-[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNusv4Wu-cY&feature=related Saber] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcwW_hYlULY&feature=related themes], [[And Zoidberg|plus]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpNYYJfHhV0&feature=relmfu Marilyn's]. And then there's [[Big Bad|Uther's]], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCUeVmboXtk&feature=relmfu which may be one of the most awesome boss themes in SRW history.]

* [[Crossover Ship]]: Shinn and Setsuko, and through that, Shinn has actually mellowed enough to [[Fix Fic|fix some of his more objectionable personality problems]]. Doesn't help that they still care for each other when they meet again in ''Saisei-hen''.

** [[Code Geass|Kallen]] and [[Armored Trooper VOTOMS|Chirico]], of all people. They had much chemistry since ''Hakai-hen'', spent much time fighting along together, and even some [[Ship Tease]] moments (some in front of Fiona even).

* [[Demonic Spiders]]: Or [[Incredibly Lame Pun|DAMONic Spiders]] as the case may be: High shields, status effect infliction, rather good accuracy/evasion rates (and will only go higher due to their Prevail skill), AND HP and EN regeneration. As someone on [[Something Awful]] put it, "It's like someone decided [[Macross Plus|the Ghost X9]] should be [[Up to Eleven|more annoying]]".

** Thankfully in ''Saisei-hen'', those Bull DAMON and the Rhino DAMON have less HP, don't have HP or EN regeneration, and have no barriers anymore. [[This Is Gonna Suck|That is, until you start to face Artificial DAMON mid-game...]]As the weaker ones are even ''stronger'' than the old Rhino DAMON.

** Stage 15 introduces Axio Burglars (piloted by Fire Bugs). They all have Jamming Device which makes friendly units 2 grids around them have their evasion and hit rate improved by 10%, ''and these bonus stack if they're near to one another''. These make evasive Reals like King Gainer or Scopedog VERY prone to their strong attacks (their strongest attack reduces victim's Will even), while it's almost impossible to hit them without using Seishins. Marin in her Burglar/Pearl Fang only makes that worse, since she is always there to lead her gang......And boosts their evasion/hit rate with her Command skill.

* [[Game Breaker]]: Not to the levels of [[Zeorymer]] in [[Super Robot Wars MX]] and [[Super Robot Wars Judgment]], but the Baldios and [[Eureka Seven|Nirvash Spec2]] count. To elaborate, Baldios is a [[Lightning Bruiser]] that's a size LL, giving it a damage/defense bonus against pretty much everything, high armor, ridiculous range, strong and economic weapons, and better yet, it has a "sub-dimensional warp" ability allowing it to dodge anything completely with a set probability. The Nirvash, on the other hand, doesn't start as much until you advance in the game and get its upgrade, the Spec2, which gives you a hideously overpowered MAP weapon that can be recharged and abused using the appropriate skills.

** The [[Genesis of Aquarion|Aquarion]] in the hands of a player who knows what he/she's doing also counts. This mecha has the unique ability "Element System", which gives the primary pilot the highest stat among the three pilots in every category if his or her Will passes 130; not a difficult task. This may not seem like much at first, but if one takes each of the three pilots and pump a specific stat, an Element System-powered Apollo can hit like a tank, dodge like a Gundam and have a high enough skill stat to activate "Attack Again", allowing him to double-hit everything using his insanely powerful weapons that have amazing range, which can be further improved with items and parts.

** [[Super Dimension Century Orguss|Kei Katsuragi and his Orguss]]. This pilot is one of the best in ''Z'', if not ''the'' flat-out best: He comes with an amazing skill set (containing the much sought-out "Attack Again" and "Counter"), a high enough skill rating to make use of both, high dodge and shooting stats, and a very dodgy mech that has no business doing as much damage as it does. [[It Gets Better]]: later in the game, he gets {{spoiler|Orson}} as a partner with an identical machine, giving them both access to a very cost-effective and powerful [[Combination Attack]] that makes them even more broken (and looks flat out awesome, especially with the "Orguss Handshake" in the end.

** The "Nirvash/Haman/Amuro/Resupply" combo, which pretty much lets you breeze through the last half of the game by over using the Spec 2's Seventh Swell MAP weapon.

** [[God Mars]] is pretty nigh unstoppable in it's combined mode, especially since its [[Super Robot Wars Destiny|last SRW appearance]] made it practically useless<ref>to elaborate, not only does the game's armor coding bug give [[God Mars]] next-to-no defense in a game where getting Takeru shot down is an instant game over, BUT Takeru's own stats coupled with him having some not-so-helpful spirit commands(to put it short, its Seishin sets are focused on offense, and thanks to the Armor Bug, Iron Wall become a necessity for a Super to perform the Tanking duty, something that almost every other Super have that Takeru is lacking make [[God Mars]] almost pointless to use at all, thanks to the risk alone ''including'' any forced deployments of [[God Mars]](even though its one of the best Super to use), despite having that game's second most powerful combination attack</ref>. The starting mecha, Gaia (which has to reach 130 Will before transforming without its full upgrade bonus), actually HELPS because it can dodge by some degree and take a few hits as well as having strong attacks. Most importantly, once Gaia changes to Godmars, it's given ''full HP and EN regeneration''. At the same time, Takaru has a set of good stats, with an Ace Bonus that grants him the "SP Regeneration" pilot skill.

** In contrast to its ''Z'' counterpart, the Aquarion is actually better due to its new finisher that can be used with any of its pilot combinations, alongside each Aquarion pilot having a unique Ace Bonus that boosts a certain stat by 20 (Sirius is melee, Silvia is range, Reika is skill, Pierre is defense, Jun is accuracy, Tsugumi is evasion). Apollo's Ace Bonus? ''125 Will at the start of every scenario'' (20 from the bonus, 5 for achieving Ace status), meaning he only needs 5 more Will points to activate the Element System. It basically tells you to use Apollo/Sirius/Reika combo, then train all 3 of them to become aces. The only downside is the Solar Aquarion's even more of an energy hog than before, but this can be easily remedied with the appropriate parts and pilot skills. Though in ''Saisei-hen'' only Set-A (Appolo, Sirius and Silvia) can use the Solar Sword, which you get it again later in the game.

*** Not to mention ''Saisei-hen'' gives it God Scrander, allowing it to use Big Bang Punch (MAP and normal versions) and One Hundred Rocket Punch, both post-movement even. The best part? MAP BBP and OHRP are both ammo-based (1 though), meaning one can spam EN like no other when dealing with grunts.

** [[Code Geass|Lelouch]] can easily become this in ''Saisei-hen'', between the Shinkirou's Absolute Protection Territory (which nullifies '''ANY''' attack under 4000 damage), his powerful Phase Transition Cannon MAP, and his Ace Bonus, which randomly casts a beneficial Seishin on himself<ref>the ''worst'' of which is Flash, meaning nothing like Scan</ref> when he hits 150 Morale. And while Shikirou's Absolute Protection Territory costs a jarring 30 EN by each use, you could make it cost 0 EN after fully upgrading it and selecting the Full Upgrade Bonus. Give Lelouch Support Defense while you're at it and Shinkirou becomes an awesome tanking unit.

*** Suzaku in his Lancelot Albion is also a ''beast'', even more so after you make him Ace Pilot. He gets a Skill called Geass' Curse, which allow him to activate Prevail Lv9 and grants a damage bonus after he hits 130 Morale. Now as aforementioned, Prevail is a skill which grants many sorts of bonuses as the user's HP goes down. This alone makes him very formidable already. His Ace Bonus? ''Geass' Curse is activated regardless of Will level''. Doesn't hurt that the Albion is a very powerful unit and Suzaku's Soul only need 40SP. However, you only get to use him in the last ten stages or so.

*** You get to use Kallen pretty early in ''Saisei-hen'', and for those who used her in ''Hakai-hen'' should know how strong she is already... Until you receive Guren SEITEN Eight Elemental Type. It's still a Size S unit with S adaptability in air, high mobility, a barrier, and its Radiation Wave Emitter's power even rivals other protagonists' units, while it's one of the ''least'' EN usage for a unit's strongest attack. The only problem is ''still'' its absurd EN drainage, but like Aquarion it can be fixed by parts. She isn't called as "the Ace of Black Knight Corps" for nothing.

*** Combined with the trainable pilot ability: "Attack Again" which allows the pilot to provide offensive support for themselves if their Skill stat is 20 or greater than the enemy. Normally this ability would only be good against enemy grunts and useless against bosses since their Skill is often greater than or equal to most of your pilots. With +40 Skill, this almost guarantees Wing Zero will be able to [[Double Tap]] almost all bosses assuming you kept Heero up to level. Counter is also a nice ability to have too. In other words, not only is the Zero System buffed, the game as a whole is a far better environment for the Zero System to shine.

**** Wing Zero also has one of the most cost effective attacks in the game: A [[Laser Sword|beam saber]] attack that does 5500 damage fully upgraded for only 5 EN (4 EN with E Save) and comes with 1~3 range. Other non-ammo attacks that do same amount of damage will cost at least +10 EN. Gundam DX's Hyper Beam Sword for example, has the same amount of range and damage when fully upgraded but costs 15 EN (12 EN with E Save). Combined with "Attack Again," Wing Zero can perform this attack twice and kill any non-boss enemy for only 8 EN. The beam saber's dynamic kill is also [[Simple Yet Awesome]].

** 00 Raiser. Just, '''holy shit''', 00 Raiser. 7700 power post-movement attack with 2-6 range and a MAP attack version that skewers any enemies in a straight line with 12 range, and a 50% chance of perfect evasion at 130 will. It also helps that Setsuna is a ''much'' better pilot this time around and eventually gets a skill that gives him +20 to accuracy, evasion, and skill as well as passive SP regen!

** [[Macross 7]]'s Sound Force again (yes, [[Super Robot Wars Destiny|yet]] [[Super Robot Wars Alpha|again]] in ''Saisei-hen'', just like any other game they debut, they can restore an ally's Spirit Points and increase their Will, and later buffing ally's stats for the remaining of the stage. But you know what's better? ALL THEIR ATTACKS CAN DEBUFF ENEMY'S WILL! Yes, even MAP attacks can debuff their will too. After Basara learns Dynamite Explosion, he can gives Seishin to a teammate too, alongside free Bless and Cheer. Did we mention he can also deal damage to Dimensional Monsters with his song?

** The Nu Gundam is incredible in ''Saisei-hen'', both because it's an amazing machine and because Amuro is an incredible pilot. At max upgrades, with the Psychoframe active, and Amuro at ace status, Fin Funnel has '''7000''' power and '''1-12''' range! It's also incredibly efficient, with ''10 ammo'' that can be raised to 15 with the Bullet Save skill! It even supplements its weakest area (lack of a powerful post-movement attack) with its new (gorgeously animated) Combo Assault.

** Esther's Ace Bonus turns her Hot Blood Spirit into Love with the same cost of her Hot Blood spirit. In order words, you get Hot Blood, Accel, Luck, Flash, Effort and Strike all at once with just 40 SP. Wow. Too bad that Esther learns Hot Blood at Stage 46.

* [[Goddamned Bats]]: In Saisei-hen, any enemy faction aligned with the Earth Federation will get Mobile Dolls that will constantly support defend each other. Most them have barriers like Planet Defensors which will nullify any damage below 2000. Your attacks will constantly be blocked if you haven't been upgrading your units' weapons. Not to mention they're very hardhitting with Ignore Size Difference skill.

* [[Hilarious in Hindsight]]: An image from ''Z'' made the rounds during the game's initial release, showing a man in a black and gold outfit with a full face mask, talking to [[Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny|Gilbert Durandal]] and saying "They call that man 'Orange'." [[Code Geass|Guess what series]] is in ''Hakai-hen''?

** ''Hakai-hen'' included a [[Macross 7|Fire Bomber]] CD as an item, part of a [[Continuity Nod]] to the fact that several ''[[Macross Frontier|Frontier]]'' characters (particularly Ozma) are fans; now we get to see the [[Squee]] in person, since ''M7'' is in ''Saisei-hen''.

** The DAMON's increasingly become this.

* [[Player Punch]]: {{spoiler|1=[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFiiuEPnG1Y Esther becomes a Dimensional Beast] in ''Saisei-hen''. She gets better, though.}}

** Same with Godmars, which was a scrappy unit in Destiny due to the same bug and if it was destroyed, it was an instant game over. Although the same "game over" situation is in ''Hakai-hen'', Godmars is rendered as an ass-kicking tool of destruction that's nearly unstoppable. One fan on the Gamefaqs board described it as "two trucks duct-taped together with an atomic bomb"...[[Earthshattering Kaboom|which is an oddly accurate description of Godmars itself]]. It also helps that after the Godmars finale, the bomb is disposed of safely and there's now no game-ruining risk involved with using it.

** [[Getter Robo|Getter-3]] in ''Hakai-hen'' is no longer a situational unit(at best): it's actually a pretty good unit.

** Also {{spoiler|1=[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjfVMZggw44 Kamina], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-UV1sk8ZNo Euphie] and [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUe83vpiKC0 Neil!Lockon]}} in ''Hakai-hen''. The worst part about the latter three is {{spoiler|while you can save Aki from her canon death (which you did in canon), Kamina, Euphie and Neil's deaths are permanent and unavoidable}}...[[Epileptic Trees|or maybe just until ''Saisei-hen'']]...

*** Especially in {{spoiler|Kamina's}} death, where [[Ax Crazy|Batshit]] [[Getter Robo|Ryouma]], of all people, screams for his name in the same way he screams whenever Musashi bites the dust.

** ''Hakai-hen'' has the dreaded big three of Emperor Zul, Moon Will's Original Dancougar and Lord Genome's Lazengann. All of them can and will one-shot your mechs if you aren't careful

* [[That One Level]]: Rand's last scenario on EX-Hard mode is ''insanely'' annoying, both because of it's length and the sheer difficulty spike the [[Big Bad]] is compared to the previous few stages. [[Save Scumming]] is almost a must to avoid an [[Unwinnable]] situation.

** Some of the special mission requirements are near impossible to beat without a great deal of luck and [[Save Scumming]]. The only real way to beat Z's hard mode while getting the skill points, ending points and such is level grinding the repair units (makeing Rand's route a little easier since he can repair) to high levels as soon as you get a stage without a time limit.

** Just about any stage in Z 2 Hakai-Hen with [[Demonic Spiders|Dimensional Monsters]] is a pain in the ass. Especially Stage 50. Artificial DAMON's presences anywhere in ''Saisei-hen'' isn't any better either.

* [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]: ''Hakai-hen'' and ''Saisei-hen'' being on a handheld has attracted a large number of complaints, as well as the removal of the Tri-Battle System. A combination of these two things has also limited the returning series to their key cast members and units only.

** In addition to the above, the fact that [[What Could Have Been|Z2 was planned to be a Playstation 2 game]] had some fans upset, as the PSP is seen as a downgrade in terms of graphic capabilities.

** The ''[[Macross Frontier]]'' units are now medium-sized rather than small, and no longer have their pinpoint barrier, which means that they're no longer the [[Game Breaker]] units that they were in ''[[Super Robot Wars L]]''. Naturally, people complained.

*** At least the Pinpoint barrier did returned in Saisei Hen.

* [[The Woobie]]: Setsuko.

** Uther might well surpass her in [[The Woobie]] status.

 

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[[Category:YMMV]]